Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. What if you've always
Speaker 2: wanted to live somewhere else and life hasn't given that to.
Speaker 3: You yet, but the pool won't be wished away.
Speaker 2: What if you did it once before and you remember
Speaker 2: the freedom, the treat of the new, the energy released
Speaker 2: by fresh places, by a different culture, a true restart.
Speaker 2: What if you're looking at your post work act and
Speaker 2: you're thinking, would the pressure be less somewhere else? Would
Speaker 2: the joy be multiplied? Would my dollar go further? Would
Speaker 2: my wanderlust be sated? If I lived overseas Asia, perhaps
Speaker 2: where many post work ossies are living for chunks of
Speaker 2: time on retirement visas or long stays, swapping the suburbs
Speaker 2: for seaside apartments, or Portugal or Spain or Mexico.
Speaker 3: What would it be like?
Speaker 2: Would you be would you be safe? Would you feel
Speaker 2: like a new version of yourself? If you've wondered about
Speaker 2: any of this. As another one of our bonus episodes
Speaker 2: about post work life in partnership with Aware Super, We've
Speaker 2: got someone we'd like you to meet Maggie Lazarre is
Speaker 2: American and three years ago she moved alone to Panama
Speaker 2: in Central America, and she was so bombarded with questions
Speaker 2: of how she did it, because she's started social media
Speaker 2: accounts men talking publicly about how much she enjoys it.
Speaker 2: She kept getting asked by everybody how she retired alone
Speaker 2: to another country, and so she started a community called
Speaker 2: single Women Retiring Abroad. And whether you're single or not,
Speaker 2: and wherever you might be dreaming about heading off to
Speaker 2: when you don't have to go to work every day,
Speaker 2: you're going to like Maggie's story and her energy and
Speaker 2: her honesty and her tales of what's working, what's not,
Speaker 2: what she loves about her choice, and what she'd do differently.
Speaker 2: So got some great advice for the questions to ask yourself.
Speaker 3: Before you make a big decision like this.
Speaker 2: Of course, considerations for Australians considering a move like this
Speaker 2: are a bit different to Maggie's, and you'll find some
Speaker 2: links to relevant info in the show notes about that.
Speaker 2: But look, I think you're going to be inspired and
Speaker 2: entertained by Maggie all the same. We spoke to her
Speaker 2: in Panama just last week. Well, I wasn't in Panama.
Speaker 2: I was in Sydney. But as you'll hear, Maggie very
Speaker 2: much was So can you tell me a little bit
Speaker 2: about what brought you to where you are now, a
Speaker 2: little bit about what you were doing in your pre
Speaker 2: Panama life?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I am in an advanced practice nurse. I've
Speaker 1: been a nurse for over forty three years. I was,
Speaker 1: and then I retired about a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: Can I be rude, Maggie and ask you how old
Speaker 2: you were when you retired. I was sixty two, right, great,
Speaker 2: So that's that's quite a good young age.
Speaker 1: Right, and in US term, that considered early. But I
Speaker 1: wanted to continue doing some business and I thought I
Speaker 1: would retire in Africa somewhere. So I went and did
Speaker 1: some scoutings over there, and I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: feeling it. I had come to Panama to see the Canal.
Speaker 1: It was a bucket item list, and I fell in
Speaker 1: love with the country when I came. I remember vividly
Speaker 1: sitting in a boat. I had gone on a trip,
Speaker 1: and then I sat there in the boat and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is nice. I liked the way I
Speaker 1: felt in that space so when I went back to
Speaker 1: Africa and did some research, I checked the healthcare system.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not feeling as good as I
Speaker 1: did when I was in Panama. So I returned to
Speaker 1: Panama a couple of times, and each time I came back,
Speaker 1: the food, the weather, the people, I was like, I
Speaker 1: really like this place. So that's how I ended up
Speaker 1: in Panama. It was a connection to the place, the people,
Speaker 1: the culture, and also the closeness to the States. So
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I was I had to travel
Speaker 1: like fourteen hours for my kids to come see me,
Speaker 1: So it wasn'tn easy transition.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you that, when you were working as
Speaker 2: a nurse for all those years and you know, raising
Speaker 2: your kids and all the things, did you always dream
Speaker 2: that you wanted to retire abroad? Like was the seed
Speaker 2: that you knew it wasn't going to be in the US?
Speaker 2: Was that always there? Can you remember how that started
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 1: Actually, No, I don't think I ever thought of retiring abroad.
Speaker 1: I thought I would travel a lot, because I've always
Speaker 1: loved to travel. But it was just, you know, things
Speaker 1: were happening politically, the country was changing, and it was like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe there is an alternative somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Did you know other women who had done it, who
Speaker 2: got and retired overseas to a brand new country.
Speaker 1: Well, I watched a lot of YouTube videos and you know,
Speaker 1: and going to Africa, I met a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who had retired there or younger people who had just
Speaker 1: gone there for business. So I had become more you know,
Speaker 1: acclimated to the idea. It wasn't so foreign. So when
Speaker 1: I decided to quit my job early and to travel
Speaker 1: around and scout, and then it was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can do this. Then you start doing research in terms
Speaker 1: of cost of living, lifestyle, then it became more acceptable
Speaker 1: in my mind that I could do it. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't something that, oh, I've been to Panama twenty years
Speaker 1: ago and I'd always want to return. Some people have
Speaker 1: that story. I don't.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that I think sometimes the world can think
Speaker 2: that your adventures are behind you when you're one, you're older.
Speaker 2: You know that like traveling to exotic, exciting places is
Speaker 2: for young people and all that kind of stuff. But
Speaker 2: that is clearly not the case. I mean, obviously, what
Speaker 2: you've done in setting up single women retiring abroad is
Speaker 2: tapped into the idea that you can keep having adventures
Speaker 2: and have the life you want no matter what. And
Speaker 2: in fact, this might be the perfect time to do it.
Speaker 1: Would you agree exactly? And you know, when you're doing
Speaker 1: some research, Even when I was considering Panama and other places,
Speaker 1: there is a study that was done by university and
Speaker 1: they find that people are starting to think about the
Speaker 1: possibility of retiring abroad in their fifties. So I think
Speaker 1: it's becoming more acceptable that you can have the lower
Speaker 1: cost of living, you can have the adventure, then you
Speaker 1: can have more money to travel, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: not bugged down by you know, aging parents for example,
Speaker 1: or healthcare system where you feel like you know, being
Speaker 1: treated right. So I think there are a lot of
Speaker 1: factors that converge to make the idea of retiring abroad
Speaker 1: a little bit more palatable to a lot of us.
Speaker 2: What did your family think of the idea?
Speaker 3: You know, that's the.
Speaker 1: Question I get a lot, and I tell them I've
Speaker 1: always been a free spirit, you know. I remember when
Speaker 1: I sold my business early nineties, I took a couple
Speaker 1: of years and traveled around the globe. So when I
Speaker 1: was ready, they were like, oh, that's Okay, we'd already
Speaker 1: thought you'd go somewhere. Yeah, right, So I did not
Speaker 1: have the struggle that some people have in terms of
Speaker 1: telling their families and getting resistance from that.
Speaker 2: Now, and do you it was kind of the thought
Speaker 2: of setting up like single women retiring abroad. Do you
Speaker 2: think that there are women who would love to do
Speaker 2: this for you know, their post work life, but they
Speaker 2: might feel worried about doing it on their own if
Speaker 2: they're not in a couple. Is that kind of the
Speaker 2: idea is to give support and encouragement to women like, no,
Speaker 2: you can still go and do this without.
Speaker 1: Exactly And I think for me, I tell people I
Speaker 1: do some consultation now, but I tell them you need
Speaker 1: to know your why why are you doing it? Because
Speaker 1: to me, if you have a strong why, whatever challenges
Speaker 1: you encounter is going to bring you back to the
Speaker 1: reason why you wanted to do this in the first place.
Speaker 1: And my why I want to share it with you
Speaker 1: is that as a clinician and having been or experience
Speaker 1: a healthcare system for my patient on the other side,
Speaker 1: as a provider, I just did not want to age
Speaker 1: in that system of being in a facility and having
Speaker 1: people take care of you. I absolutely reject that in
Speaker 1: my mind. So I wanted to create a model of
Speaker 1: aging and that's what's why is about. It's creating a
Speaker 1: module of aging abroad that is affordable and sustainable on
Speaker 1: my turn, meaning I want to be at home and
Speaker 1: if I need some help, the help comes to me,
Speaker 1: versus me being forced to enter a facility. So once
Speaker 1: I did that and I crystallized that, then I saw
Speaker 1: talking to women, I saw watching videos and people were
Speaker 1: asking the same questions. They're like, you know what, my
Speaker 1: social security is this much. I don't think I can
Speaker 1: live comfortably in the US because of that. Are there
Speaker 1: any options? And then a little light bulb went off
Speaker 1: in my head and I'm like, well, you know what,
Speaker 1: I did it and I'm here. Therefore I can help
Speaker 1: other women to follow in my path. Yes, you can
Speaker 1: do it. I'll show you exactly how to do it.
Speaker 1: And that's what single women is. And then now on
Speaker 1: the ground, we have a sisterhood where we're trying to
Speaker 1: support each other. So it feeds my soul for the
Speaker 1: need to be creative, to always have goals. That retirement
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and try to
Speaker 1: play golf and play pickable. I don't do any of those.
Speaker 2: Not your saying. It's interesting because obviously here in Australia
Speaker 2: we have a different kind of health system, right, so
Speaker 2: we have more support for people, no question. However, the
Speaker 2: cost of living is, you know, just like in America,
Speaker 2: just like in lots of other places, means that for
Speaker 2: many many people who thought that maybe their retirement funds
Speaker 2: here we have a kind of this thing called superannuation
Speaker 2: where you pay into it through your working life and
Speaker 2: then you get access to it later. But you would
Speaker 2: imagine like what that can buy you. Now, the lifestyle
Speaker 2: that that can afford you that you maybe have been
Speaker 2: dreaming of has changed a lot with how expensive everything is.
Speaker 2: So I think that in Australia that's why a lot
Speaker 2: of people might be looking to parts of Asia or
Speaker 2: other places to do this. But obviously doing this at
Speaker 2: this stage of life, and this is what you're just
Speaker 2: talking about, is your considerations of choosing a place are
Speaker 2: quite different than they would be if you were backpacking
Speaker 2: at nineteen, right, So how do you go about finding
Speaker 2: out whether or not what you just described is possible
Speaker 2: in country?
Speaker 3: You don't know?
Speaker 2: So you know what the health system is like, like,
Speaker 2: what are the main considerations you tell women to look
Speaker 2: into to choose their place.
Speaker 1: I have developed what I call it's an assessment tool.
Speaker 1: I tell people, the assessment tool is going to say
Speaker 1: this is me, these are my likes and dislikes in retirement.
Speaker 1: If I were to choose the ideal place, what I
Speaker 1: would I be looking for? Is it cost of living,
Speaker 1: cost of health care. And for us doing my research,
Speaker 1: we have three main things that we look for. The
Speaker 1: cost of living, it has to be less than what
Speaker 1: you had wherever you're coming from. Otherwise, what's the point
Speaker 1: cost of health care? That is very prohibitive for people
Speaker 1: in my country where people are making choices between buying
Speaker 1: medications or buying food right. And then the third thing
Speaker 1: is the presence of an expert community. So to me,
Speaker 1: I tell these people know your why and if you
Speaker 1: have these three things and we have some other factors,
Speaker 1: you know, a distance, weather, language, all the things that
Speaker 1: it's like it is it a deal breaker or can
Speaker 1: you work through it? Right? So those three things you
Speaker 1: must have, especially because of our age group, healthcare has
Speaker 1: to be on the top of the list. You have
Speaker 1: to reduce your cost of living and I said, you
Speaker 1: don't need to be a pioneer. You want to have
Speaker 1: a community that can embrace you and support you.
Speaker 2: And is that what you found in Patama? Is the
Speaker 2: Are there a lot of people doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Some people are doing things, But I think our group
Speaker 1: is unique in the sense that I found my niche
Speaker 1: early and I find that that is something that I
Speaker 1: was blessed to find, you know, I was I had
Speaker 1: clarity that this was this group that I was going
Speaker 1: to focus on and provide services for. Other groups are
Speaker 1: like more social groups. You know, they go here on
Speaker 1: trips and stuff, which is but I'm not the kind
Speaker 1: of person that just wants to go go go here,
Speaker 1: go here, go there. I need to have something of
Speaker 1: essense that I feel like I'm contributing, I'm helping, I'm building.
Speaker 1: So I've created community here, our group of sisters we
Speaker 1: call the SWAT Sisters. I started that, so we all here.
Speaker 1: You're in the hospital, we got you. You need somebody
Speaker 1: to translate for you, we got you. I speak Spanish,
Speaker 1: I teach Spanish. So if it's not there, you create it.
Speaker 1: But I think women need to be clear, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you heavy in debt. That's no way to come
Speaker 1: here with a lot of debt. Right, do you have
Speaker 1: aging parents that you're responsible for? Those are not things
Speaker 1: that we can get away from. I don't have that situation.
Speaker 1: But if somebody has aging parents and you're not going
Speaker 1: to be able to relax and enjoy retirement if you
Speaker 1: have to worry about that and the guilt won't let
Speaker 1: you enjoy your retirement. So when we come, we go
Speaker 1: through all that, and I always tell them maybe not now,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe a little bit. You know, you need a
Speaker 1: little time to clear out your finances and try to
Speaker 1: see what other options you have for your aging parents,
Speaker 1: your home. It's a big decision.
Speaker 2: After the break, Maggie shares a moment when she knew
Speaker 2: moving abroad was the perfect decision for her, and another
Speaker 2: that made her question whether it might have been a mistake.
Speaker 3: Stay with us.
Speaker 2: Tell me a time. You know, when you were telling
Speaker 2: me before about when you chose Panama, you were sitting
Speaker 2: on this boat and you were like it felt right.
Speaker 2: Tell me what life is like in Panama. On a
Speaker 2: day when you're like this was the best choice ever?
Speaker 2: Like why, tell me a great one? And then I
Speaker 2: want you to tell me because nothing is perfect. Of course,
Speaker 2: then I want you to tell me something that you
Speaker 2: know has been a little bit challenging.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the other day I was telling someone
Speaker 1: I was took the metro because I don't drive here,
Speaker 1: so and then I'm blessed that they have a metro
Speaker 1: system and a good bus system and Uber is super affordable.
Speaker 1: So I remember I was in this little area that
Speaker 1: isn't a little bit busy. So the energy of the
Speaker 1: place is Panama. So you get off the subway, somebody's
Speaker 1: trying to sell you trash bag for your kitchen, and
Speaker 1: then there is a stand with avocados and pineapples. I
Speaker 1: can go there and get that and get right on
Speaker 1: the train to get home.
Speaker 3: And I was.
Speaker 1: Walking there and I said, this is still a good place.
Speaker 1: The feeling of feeling comfortable that you can blend in,
Speaker 1: that you don't stick out, and people are happy, it
Speaker 1: rubs off on you. So for me, it's almost every
Speaker 1: day I love to get out and just in there
Speaker 1: with the people. I'll sit on the bus and listen
Speaker 1: to the conversation because I speak Spanish. I hear these
Speaker 1: little old men talking politics, and I'm sitting there, I'm
Speaker 1: like they probably don't think I understand it. That is
Speaker 1: always a good thing for me. It kind of reinforces
Speaker 1: every day that I made the right decision. And it's
Speaker 1: been two and a half.
Speaker 3: Years, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: And in a difficult situation when I got robbed two years.
Speaker 3: Ago, tell me about that.
Speaker 2: But just I mean, not that I want to dwell
Speaker 2: on the negative, but I imagine that there'll be women listening
Speaker 2: to this who one of the things they would worry
Speaker 2: about about making a move like this alone is they
Speaker 2: might worry about security or safety or feeling unsafe. Right.
Speaker 1: But I think for me, being a savvy traveler, it
Speaker 1: was just my carelessness. I was in an area that
Speaker 1: was very touristy and you know that, and I watched
Speaker 1: so many videos about people get pick pocketed and those
Speaker 1: double deckor buses and everything. And I was working with
Speaker 1: a friend. Again, I'm in the zone. I'm excited. I
Speaker 1: was wearing a backpack. That was the first no no.
Speaker 1: If you're going to wear a backpack, wear it in
Speaker 1: the front, right, And I had right and I had
Speaker 1: my wallet with everything in it. Mistake number two. You
Speaker 1: don't need to carry everything in your wallet when you
Speaker 1: are out. So he bumped into me and he said,
Speaker 1: excuse me, and he put this hoodie on and the
Speaker 1: cameras we have cameras couldn't see his face. He was
Speaker 1: a professional, but I had to go through that. But
Speaker 1: I had to do the police and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: have no money and trying to follow report. But I
Speaker 1: did it, and I went to the bank and the
Speaker 1: bank reimborced my money. That was the first thing that
Speaker 1: reimbursed my money. So I tell people, don't make the
Speaker 1: mistake that I made, and everybody will chime in, well
Speaker 1: you should no better, oh dull. I'm like, yes, you're right.
Speaker 2: But you got through it, you know, like it happened,
Speaker 2: and it didn't make you get on a plane home.
Speaker 2: It made you go, okay, well we'll deal with this
Speaker 2: like it's okay.
Speaker 1: And for them to understand that you need to have
Speaker 1: this police report in hand. This is not a digital
Speaker 1: place where you could say I'll email you this, email
Speaker 1: you that. So understanding the culture that it's different from
Speaker 1: what you used to is the first step in relaxing
Speaker 1: and acclimating here.
Speaker 2: Up next, Maggie opens up about the emotional challenges of
Speaker 2: adjusting to life abroad and living on around. You've talked
Speaker 2: about this amazing community you've built, but I imagine some
Speaker 2: people would think, Oh, I would miss my family. I
Speaker 2: might get lonely. What do you tell people about the
Speaker 2: emotional adjustment to being somewhere different by yourself.
Speaker 1: One other thing I tell women, I say, if you've
Speaker 1: never traveled, you've never left your family, you've never left home,
Speaker 1: You're probably going to have a heart of a time.
Speaker 1: If you are one hundred percent responsible for everything, whether
Speaker 1: it's your aging parents or your teenager or your adult
Speaker 1: child who refuses to leave, or you don't allow to leave,
Speaker 1: it happens. Be hard for you. If you're not a
Speaker 1: hands off kind of person. And you're not, you can't
Speaker 1: think on your feet. You know, if you if you
Speaker 1: get into a situation you got to say okay, one, two, three,
Speaker 1: watch neck boom and be able to make decisions like that.
Speaker 1: It's going to be hard for you. With families. I
Speaker 1: tell people, if you're really close, make sure you budget
Speaker 1: for frequent trips back. Yeah, because I remember when I
Speaker 1: moved from one state to another. Oh, I was so homesick.
Speaker 1: I left the northeastern part of the US, and I
Speaker 1: moved south. My first Christmas, it was eighty five degrees
Speaker 1: and I felt that I was in the twilight zone.
Speaker 3: You mean, no snow, no farther bliss.
Speaker 1: What is this? I felt so sad. So I went
Speaker 1: home and then it was like ten degrees and the
Speaker 1: snow was this high, and I'm like, okay, I know
Speaker 1: why I left. Now I'm good.
Speaker 2: This is a familiar story to me, Maggie. I left
Speaker 2: England to come and live in Australia. I'm like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: this is the hot Christmas is a strange, but better
Speaker 2: than snows.
Speaker 1: But I think going back and forth is a nice
Speaker 1: compromise for some people just to kind of check in
Speaker 1: the check on you. Oh are you doing okay? Well
Speaker 1: we're okay, you can come visit, and then it kind
Speaker 1: of set off after a little while. But some people
Speaker 1: tell me point blank, I couldn't leave my dog, I
Speaker 1: could leave my family. I Will says, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you have clarity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not for everybody. Yeah, it's not for everybody.
Speaker 1: You need to have clarity, right, but it.
Speaker 2: Is for people who have got that as you say
Speaker 2: that independent free spirit, It's like.
Speaker 1: Yes, and want to explore you know, because the language
Speaker 1: could be a good challenge for some people. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's not easy to feel people talking, you know, and
Speaker 1: you can't understand right, so that should weigh heavily on
Speaker 1: your decision as to where you go.
Speaker 2: You already spoke Spanish, I assume I did, so that
Speaker 2: was also part of.
Speaker 1: That made it easier for me. And I said, you
Speaker 1: can't compare your situation to mine because I had this
Speaker 1: going for me. Yeah, so so you consider an English
Speaker 1: speaking country?
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: This has been an amazing conversation. I guess I'd like
Speaker 2: to ask you, Baggy, without its sounding too brutal, do
Speaker 2: you think this is a Is it for you a
Speaker 2: permanent move? This is where you're going to be now?
Speaker 2: Is that how you see it? Or do you like
Speaker 2: it's year by year?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What? How do you look at the future?
Speaker 1: You know? I spoke to a couple of my lady
Speaker 1: sisters the other day and this one said, oh, I
Speaker 1: just signed a three year list or I just signed
Speaker 1: a five year Listen. I'm not wow. I just don't
Speaker 1: feel because of my spirit of adventure, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is going to be the end, but for me,
Speaker 1: I'm not planning on going anywhere, but I kind of
Speaker 1: like to keep my options open because I don't know
Speaker 1: what might happen in the future. I might want to
Speaker 1: explore some other countries. So now I can't even I
Speaker 1: told the sisters, I'm like, I'm not going to sign
Speaker 1: it to your lease. I don't want to feel tight
Speaker 1: like that. Some people want to buy, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to buy a place because then I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm attached and I can't move. I like
Speaker 1: to be mobile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't imagine going back to the US.
Speaker 2: You don't know, that's not what you imagine.
Speaker 1: Now, that would be by choice, and you know, not
Speaker 1: to get into the details of the stuff that everybody
Speaker 1: knows what's going on. Nobody that I know here would
Speaker 1: willingly go back. Yeah, yeah, it you just never know.
Speaker 2: I Have you enjoyed another one of these special episodes
Speaker 2: of mid where we're talking about that next phase of life,
Speaker 2: that post work era, and whether you're thinking about moving
Speaker 2: to a farm or moving abroad light Maggie being.
Speaker 3: Prepared gives you the choice.
Speaker 2: Follow the link in our show notes about Aware super
Speaker 2: for more about that and for advice for Australians thinking
Speaker 2: about retiring overseas like Maggie. We'll put a link in
Speaker 2: our show notes for good places to start for help
Speaker 2: and information. The executive producer of this episode is named A. Brown,
Speaker 2: The producer is Charlie Blackman, and there's been audio production
Speaker 2: from Jacob Brown. Will see you next time.