WEBVTT - The Celebrity Who Loves Bad Kids & The Sibling Effect

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Parenting out Loud. This is the podcast where

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<v Speaker 2>we don't actually tell you how to parent. We figure

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<v Speaker 2>that there's probably enough places that do that. We instead

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<v Speaker 2>talk about parenting in the culture. We read all the

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<v Speaker 2>parenting news and the trends and the advice and the

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<v Speaker 2>things that happen on the internet so that you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to and then we bring it to you on

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<v Speaker 2>a platter and try and make sense of it. So

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome parents, Welcome friends, Welcome parents and friends. Committee to

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<v Speaker 2>Parenting out Loud.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Monice Bowley, I'm Claire Stevens filling in for Emelia Lester.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Stacy Hicks. Hi Claire.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, guys, nice to have you. Claire, I'm so excited

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<v Speaker 3>to be here. I love just banging down the door

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<v Speaker 3>and getting out loud. It's so fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this because you're pregnant so you just want to

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<v Speaker 1>be here to use us for any of your questions.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, guys, like, when I'm doing out Loud,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, if I'm honest, all I'm really thinking about

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<v Speaker 3>is my toddler, Like twenty fours, which is an interesting

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<v Speaker 3>to everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>It is to us, come and nest with us. We're

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<v Speaker 2>very welcome here. How many weeks pragante are you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm twenty four weeks, which it's not far enough along

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<v Speaker 3>for my liking, but it is over halfway. But I

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<v Speaker 3>remember from last time, between twenty and thirty weeks is

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<v Speaker 3>a it's a long road. It goes on forever, and

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<v Speaker 3>then after thirty weeks you're a little bit. Things are

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<v Speaker 3>so dire that time speeds up a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh well, welcome, so good to have you all right?

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up on today's show, what are you bringing us?

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<v Speaker 1>Claire?

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<v Speaker 3>Has anyone ever called your kid bad? The reframe we

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<v Speaker 3>need is here.

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<v Speaker 1>And the sibling effect trend is the trend that I

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<v Speaker 1>would like to go away forever. Please, I will tell

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<v Speaker 1>you why.

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<v Speaker 2>And an eleven year old just a pretty hard life

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<v Speaker 2>lesson from a celebrity. I want to talk about how

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<v Speaker 2>do you prepare kids for when life and people suck?

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<v Speaker 2>But first, the biggest video in my feed this week

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<v Speaker 2>was a basketball coach screaming in her player's face. Have

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<v Speaker 2>you guys seen this?

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<v Speaker 3>I've seen, yes, I've seen some of it. I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>seen all of the context around it, so I need

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<v Speaker 3>you to explain.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it is everywhere, right, Like I watched this on

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<v Speaker 1>a loop. When you send this to me, I know

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't stop.

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<v Speaker 2>It had thirty million views. I think twenty nine million

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<v Speaker 2>on mine. It was at a college basketball game in America.

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<v Speaker 2>So Maryland college basketball coach Brenda Freeze mid game. This

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<v Speaker 2>is an NCAA game, college basketball game, lots of pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>She gets her star player, Aluchi Okanawa, and she serves

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<v Speaker 2>up what looks like this massive spray, like she's right

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<v Speaker 2>in her face, she's locking eyes with her and she

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<v Speaker 2>is just screaming. And what she says is so I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, right, I need someone to lip read this

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<v Speaker 2>for me. What is this? Because it looks really intense

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<v Speaker 2>and aggressive. What she says is, I need you to

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<v Speaker 2>lock in stop being distracted. I believe in you, but

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to want this moment.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't my story or right.

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<v Speaker 3>Right an American accent.

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<v Speaker 2>I just gave myself goosebumps. So people saw this and

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<v Speaker 2>immediately split into two camps, which one was I would

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<v Speaker 2>run through a brick wall after this for this coach.

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<v Speaker 2>The other camp was, you cannot speak to people like that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I wanted to talk about it with you both

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<v Speaker 2>today because I loved it for two reasons. Number one

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<v Speaker 2>is that in a world where you're told always to

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<v Speaker 2>parent in a gentle way, in a very encouraging way,

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<v Speaker 2>in a loving way, to see a moment where someone

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<v Speaker 2>is being pushed hard like this, I was like, holy shit.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's why I went back and watched it

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<v Speaker 2>again and again, because it's not something we see that much.

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<v Speaker 2>And the second reason I loved it was for what

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<v Speaker 2>the player said afterwards. So in the presser, Okanawa said, this.

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<v Speaker 4>Coach understands I'm a competitor at heart, and I love

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<v Speaker 4>to be coach, and that's what she does with me

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<v Speaker 4>every single day. And really what that was was a

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<v Speaker 4>regroup moment for myself and her telling me she believed

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<v Speaker 4>in me, because sometimes that's really all you need to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so obsessed with this. I think the reason I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so obsessed is because I feel like the dominant narrative

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<v Speaker 2>with kids these days. And look, Akanawa is twenty two.

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<v Speaker 2>She's not a kid, but she's Gen Z and every

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<v Speaker 2>criticism of Gen Z's and Gen Alpha's and every generation

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<v Speaker 2>after millennials is that they're soft, they can't take feedback,

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<v Speaker 2>they're fragile, they've been overparented, and this is just not that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just loved what the coach did and I

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<v Speaker 2>loved what she did, and I love it all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was really I found it confronting when I

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<v Speaker 1>watched it for the first time. I was like, I

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<v Speaker 1>would want to kill that woman if she was speaking

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<v Speaker 1>to my kid that way. Like, but and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>famously I'm terrible at sport. I could not be yelled

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<v Speaker 1>at like that and then get out there and do

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<v Speaker 1>a great performance. I would just want to be told

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wonderful and that everything I'm doing is great. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's the distinction is she's not getting yelled at.

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<v Speaker 1>It's motivational, and it's like sometimes it does need to

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<v Speaker 1>be a bit more aggressive, Like we're so used to

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<v Speaker 1>speaking to everyone in a gentle, calm voice and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>just a bit of like up in your grill motivational

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<v Speaker 1>words would actually do the trick.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that it's two women, like because I feel

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<v Speaker 3>like you do see this, Like even from watching some

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<v Speaker 3>of the F one stuff, you kind of sometimes you

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<v Speaker 3>can see men really get into this with each other,

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<v Speaker 3>and that there's no you know that, it's not you know,

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<v Speaker 3>anybody attacking each other. It's about really seizing the moment

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<v Speaker 3>and this is the one opportunity and so you've got.

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<v Speaker 1>To do it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I love seeing two women do that and the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that it's not it's not anger, it's not I'm this.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a very sensitive person, and I know that there

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<v Speaker 3>are certain points in my life where I would not

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<v Speaker 3>have been able to take that, yeah, corner in the corner.

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<v Speaker 3>But then I think about it and I think, if

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<v Speaker 3>somebody would have believe in me that much, that means

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, and that is often a sign post of

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<v Speaker 3>your potential, and that's really exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Maggie Dent always talks about lighthouse figures right

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<v Speaker 2>where you have in your life, you have your parents,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you also need a range of lighthouse figures

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<v Speaker 2>around you that can kind of believe in you. And

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<v Speaker 2>that was just such a great example of that.

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<v Speaker 3>In case you missed it, actress Viola Davis, who you'd

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<v Speaker 3>probably know from her roles in The Help and How

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<v Speaker 3>to Get Away with Murder and Doubt and a million

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<v Speaker 3>other things, was recently again on Amy Pola's podcast Good Hang,

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<v Speaker 3>and there's a viral clip from the show where Viola

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<v Speaker 3>Davis says she loves a bad kid.

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<v Speaker 5>I love a bad kid, like a two year old

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<v Speaker 5>bad kid, someone who comes, you know. I had a

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<v Speaker 5>little bad kid at my wedded who stuck his whole

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<v Speaker 5>finger in my cake.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh.

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<v Speaker 5>I thought it was the best thing in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>So I love a bad kid. Listen, the world is

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<v Speaker 5>going to get at you. It's going to kick your ass,

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<v Speaker 5>just leave you in the dumpster. So it's really great

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<v Speaker 5>when you go out in the world and you have

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<v Speaker 5>the hootspu. Yes you have that self possession right, Yes,

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<v Speaker 5>that's what I want with my kid.

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<v Speaker 3>I was completely obsessed with this take because I think

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<v Speaker 3>it points to a few things one Viola Davis like,

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<v Speaker 3>I think she didn't even realize how powerful what she

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<v Speaker 3>was saying was, because it was really about tolerance and

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<v Speaker 3>the importance of our attitude towards kids in public, Like

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<v Speaker 3>kids are going to do inconvenient things, and we should

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<v Speaker 3>be a whole lot more tolerant and understanding. I often

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<v Speaker 3>think that when kids are acting up or there's often

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<v Speaker 3>there's discussions about, you know, how empathetic or how patient

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<v Speaker 3>you should be with somebody else's kids. It's not even

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<v Speaker 3>about whether you have kids, whether there are kids in

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<v Speaker 3>your life. It's that we were all kids once, and

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<v Speaker 3>we were all that kid and the fact that the

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<v Speaker 3>world isn't built for kids makes us less patient and

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<v Speaker 3>less accepting and more willing to jump down their throats

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<v Speaker 3>when they do something like that. So if I had

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<v Speaker 3>in my head walking around that there are people like

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<v Speaker 3>Viola Davis who says, I love that that kid has

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<v Speaker 3>just funny vibes, then it would make me feel a

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<v Speaker 3>lot more safe as a parent. The other thing I

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<v Speaker 3>took away from it is that the kid who does

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<v Speaker 3>that is not a bad kid, especially at two, like

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<v Speaker 3>in Viola Davis's example, you look at a kid like

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<v Speaker 3>that and you go, it's not that you're bad. And

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<v Speaker 3>this is what clinical psychologist doctor Becky said when she

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<v Speaker 3>stitched that on TikTok. She said, there are no bad kids.

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<v Speaker 3>You can have a good kid who's impulsive and a

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<v Speaker 3>good kid who needs boundaries. And I absolutely love that reframing.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's just I look at my two year old

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<v Speaker 3>and I think you don't have the cognitive ability to

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<v Speaker 3>be bad, even if you wanted to everything you do

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<v Speaker 3>is because you have no skills.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, if he doesn't want to stick their

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<v Speaker 1>finger in a cake, you know, it is an intrusive thought.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just that kids let that win. And I loved

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<v Speaker 1>that this was rebranded as you know, we just need

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<v Speaker 1>to see that as entertaining, not as misbehavior. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>same as kind of when they swear you can either

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<v Speaker 1>be aghast at this or you can just go it's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty funny, especially when it's not your own kid.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's very true that it's self fulfilling, like I

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<v Speaker 3>can see if you looked at your kid doing I

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<v Speaker 3>was out in public yesterday, and if anybody saw me

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<v Speaker 3>out in public, they would have thought she's got a

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<v Speaker 3>bad kid. Because Matilda, in her defense, she is sick.

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<v Speaker 3>She's going through a lot, and she was just running

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<v Speaker 3>through Woolworths, refusing to get in her pram and like

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<v Speaker 3>screaming absolute tantrum and grabbing things off the shelves. It

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<v Speaker 3>was just a nightmare. But in my head, and even

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<v Speaker 3>in that situation, I don't really react to it because

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<v Speaker 3>as a parent, you've got so much empathy for what

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<v Speaker 3>your kid is going through and that she generally is

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<v Speaker 3>incredibly well behaved, and it was just one of those days.

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<v Speaker 3>But I do like the thought. And sometimes it can

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<v Speaker 3>just be like a little smile from somebody that you

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<v Speaker 3>pass or Matilda was then crying in her pram and

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<v Speaker 3>a man in front of us just kept kind of

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<v Speaker 3>pulling funny faces, and I thought, God, that just makes

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<v Speaker 3>you feel so much better as a parent that people

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<v Speaker 3>respect that your kid is worthy of dignity and respec

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<v Speaker 3>It's just that they're going through some things today.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't disagree, Like I agree with everything you're saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Adults probably need to be more tolerant. This is often

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<v Speaker 2>like developmentally appropriate for their age. But what if the

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<v Speaker 2>person sticking their hand in the cake is a five

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<v Speaker 2>year old or a seven year old? Does that change it? Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we have a lot of tolerance for toddlers

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<v Speaker 2>because they're still learning their way through the world, they're

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<v Speaker 2>having a lot of big feelings, But what if it's

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<v Speaker 2>an older kid, Like, where do you draw the line?

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<v Speaker 3>I know, And the tricky thing is you don't know

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<v Speaker 3>where they're at developmentally behavior wise, what kind of challenges

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<v Speaker 3>they might be having. You can't tell all of that

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<v Speaker 3>from the outside, but at the same time, yeah, it

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<v Speaker 3>would be disingenuous to pretend that we're not sometimes very

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<v Speaker 3>frustrated by kids in public, and that if a kid

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<v Speaker 3>comes up to my kid in the playground and hits

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<v Speaker 3>her because he wants to use the and he's seven,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, well that was that? Yeah, yeah, but I yeah,

0:12:12.074 --> 0:12:17.874
<v Speaker 3>I agree, Like it's a it's kind of a vague

0:12:17.954 --> 0:12:20.394
<v Speaker 3>line of where you draw that based on what you

0:12:20.394 --> 0:12:21.514
<v Speaker 3>can see from the outside.

0:12:21.794 --> 0:12:26.194
<v Speaker 2>There are also social norms, right, Like, you can't you

0:12:26.234 --> 0:12:27.754
<v Speaker 2>can't have kids that just do whatever they want for

0:12:27.754 --> 0:12:28.994
<v Speaker 2>the rest of their life, because what are they going

0:12:29.074 --> 0:12:30.434
<v Speaker 2>to be like when they're in the workplace? What are

0:12:30.434 --> 0:12:32.834
<v Speaker 2>they going to be like in social situations? Like I

0:12:32.874 --> 0:12:35.514
<v Speaker 2>think the principle of the idea is really great, but

0:12:35.754 --> 0:12:39.953
<v Speaker 2>in practice, I think there's a line of like, well, actually,

0:12:39.994 --> 0:12:40.994
<v Speaker 2>that's just bad manners.

0:12:41.034 --> 0:12:44.794
<v Speaker 1>But maybe this isn't about not stopping the behavior. You

0:12:44.834 --> 0:12:47.714
<v Speaker 1>absolutely should stop the behavior, but it's kind of about

0:12:47.754 --> 0:12:49.754
<v Speaker 1>embracing it for what it is at the time, which

0:12:49.794 --> 0:12:51.914
<v Speaker 1>is like, yeah, he shouldn't have stuck his finger in

0:12:51.954 --> 0:12:54.274
<v Speaker 1>the cake, but it's kind of funny that he did,

0:12:54.394 --> 0:12:56.634
<v Speaker 1>and we can just kind of laugh about that, especially

0:12:56.634 --> 0:12:58.674
<v Speaker 1>when it's not your own kid doing it, it is

0:12:58.714 --> 0:12:59.833
<v Speaker 1>even funnier.

0:12:59.834 --> 0:13:03.514
<v Speaker 3>And maybe also being sensitive to those situations that aren't

0:13:04.074 --> 0:13:07.394
<v Speaker 3>kid friendly to begin with, Like, yeah, you think about

0:13:07.394 --> 0:13:11.554
<v Speaker 3>a wedding, and this is why I'm all for child

0:13:11.554 --> 0:13:14.594
<v Speaker 3>free weddings, because what's a kid gonna do at a wedding?

0:13:14.594 --> 0:13:17.754
<v Speaker 3>They're gonna stick a finger in the cave. Like kids

0:13:18.034 --> 0:13:21.034
<v Speaker 3>behave a lot better in situations that are actually designed

0:13:21.074 --> 0:13:24.154
<v Speaker 3>for them, as opposed to like sit down at this

0:13:24.234 --> 0:13:26.833
<v Speaker 3>fancy restaurant and don't disturb anyone. Well, they're going to

0:13:26.874 --> 0:13:28.394
<v Speaker 3>do something stupid because they're a child.

0:13:29.594 --> 0:13:31.914
<v Speaker 2>I need to relax my noose. By the sounds of it,

0:13:31.954 --> 0:13:33.674
<v Speaker 2>I'm like the stern mother.

0:13:35.994 --> 0:13:36.914
<v Speaker 3>You're so right.

0:13:37.594 --> 0:13:41.194
<v Speaker 2>You might have seen a prickly little celebrity story around

0:13:41.234 --> 0:13:43.434
<v Speaker 2>the chaps this week, and I want to talk about it.

0:13:43.514 --> 0:13:45.634
<v Speaker 2>I know they talked about it on Mamma Mia out

0:13:45.674 --> 0:13:49.034
<v Speaker 2>Loud this earlier this week, but we're sitting at the

0:13:49.034 --> 0:13:53.154
<v Speaker 2>parents table here and I think there's more to unpack.

0:13:53.994 --> 0:13:56.914
<v Speaker 2>It was when an eleven year old encountered a celebrity,

0:13:57.314 --> 0:14:00.234
<v Speaker 2>and that celeb was Chapel Roan. Is that right?

0:14:00.554 --> 0:14:04.394
<v Speaker 1>High saying i did it right. Has been calling her Chappelle,

0:14:04.474 --> 0:14:10.874
<v Speaker 1>bro Chapelle, every different variation, but you nailed it on,

0:14:11.554 --> 0:14:12.074
<v Speaker 1>thank you.

0:14:12.634 --> 0:14:15.154
<v Speaker 2>So she's huge right now to everyone except for me,

0:14:15.674 --> 0:14:18.554
<v Speaker 2>very adored. She's staying in a hotel right This eleven

0:14:18.634 --> 0:14:21.794
<v Speaker 2>year old spots her at breakfast, and yet's excited, because

0:14:21.794 --> 0:14:23.114
<v Speaker 2>what do you do when you're eleven and you see

0:14:23.154 --> 0:14:27.434
<v Speaker 2>a celebrity, You do get excited. But the eleven year old.

0:14:27.034 --> 0:14:29.594
<v Speaker 1>Even when you're not eleven. I'm sorry. If I saw

0:14:29.874 --> 0:14:32.594
<v Speaker 1>Taylor Swift and I was at breakfast, I would absolutely do.

0:14:32.594 --> 0:14:34.954
<v Speaker 3>A little drive par nosy. I can't help you.

0:14:35.074 --> 0:14:38.554
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was no approach, there was no

0:14:38.634 --> 0:14:41.754
<v Speaker 2>autograph or selfie moment. It's this was very much just

0:14:42.234 --> 0:14:45.474
<v Speaker 2>admire from a distance, walk past the table. Yep, it's her.

0:14:45.554 --> 0:14:47.394
<v Speaker 2>How exciting. Let's get back to our breakfast.

0:14:47.834 --> 0:14:47.994
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:14:47.994 --> 0:14:51.914
<v Speaker 2>What happens next is that security steps in and essentially

0:14:51.954 --> 0:14:56.274
<v Speaker 2>tells this kid off and threatens them and allegedly harasses them.

0:14:56.994 --> 0:14:59.114
<v Speaker 2>Now it happens that the eleven year old is the

0:14:59.154 --> 0:15:03.554
<v Speaker 2>step daughter of a very famous soccer player. It's also

0:15:03.594 --> 0:15:07.114
<v Speaker 2>the daughter of Judelaw, a very famous celebrity. Her step

0:15:07.274 --> 0:15:12.514
<v Speaker 2>father Georginiao has four point nine million Instagram followers. He

0:15:12.594 --> 0:15:15.114
<v Speaker 2>is not happy at this point. He's eleven year old

0:15:15.194 --> 0:15:20.474
<v Speaker 2>stepdaughter has been harassed security guard, and so he wrote

0:15:20.594 --> 0:15:25.674
<v Speaker 2>on his Instagram this takedown of Chappelle, Chapel and Chapel

0:15:26.354 --> 0:15:29.794
<v Speaker 2>saying without your fans, you would be nothing and to

0:15:29.874 --> 0:15:33.474
<v Speaker 2>the fans, she does not deserve your attention. FYI. For

0:15:33.554 --> 0:15:36.554
<v Speaker 2>the record, Chapel said she didn't do it and she

0:15:36.634 --> 0:15:40.514
<v Speaker 2>doesn't hate kids. I think the reason this has gone

0:15:40.594 --> 0:15:43.434
<v Speaker 2>wild is because it's eleven year old girl at the

0:15:43.434 --> 0:15:47.274
<v Speaker 2>center of it, right, And at eleven years old, you're

0:15:47.314 --> 0:15:51.554
<v Speaker 2>still in that place where adults smile at you and

0:15:51.674 --> 0:15:54.474
<v Speaker 2>the world's pretty soft towards you, and you haven't kind

0:15:54.514 --> 0:15:57.874
<v Speaker 2>of had that gut punch slap in the face. People

0:15:57.914 --> 0:16:00.914
<v Speaker 2>can be a bit shit moment yet, so a moment

0:16:01.074 --> 0:16:03.514
<v Speaker 2>like this is kind of a huge parenting deal for

0:16:03.514 --> 0:16:05.954
<v Speaker 2>a number of reasons. But I wanted to talk about

0:16:05.954 --> 0:16:07.794
<v Speaker 2>it today because I think we spend a lot of

0:16:07.874 --> 0:16:10.114
<v Speaker 2>years teaching our kids to be friendly and open and

0:16:10.154 --> 0:16:13.754
<v Speaker 2>polite and make eye contact and engage and don't be rude,

0:16:13.994 --> 0:16:16.074
<v Speaker 2>don't stick your hand in a cake, and then they

0:16:16.194 --> 0:16:18.994
<v Speaker 2>do all of that, and then they have this moment,

0:16:19.074 --> 0:16:21.154
<v Speaker 2>this moment is going to come in their life where

0:16:21.154 --> 0:16:25.914
<v Speaker 2>people are dicks to them, Like the world is really harsh.

0:16:26.034 --> 0:16:29.514
<v Speaker 2>So when something like this happens to your kid, do

0:16:29.554 --> 0:16:32.874
<v Speaker 2>you step in and protect them or do you tell

0:16:32.914 --> 0:16:35.514
<v Speaker 2>them the truth like, yeah, the world's really hard.

0:16:35.634 --> 0:16:36.674
<v Speaker 1>Like what do you do?

0:16:36.834 --> 0:16:37.834
<v Speaker 2>How do you prepare them?

0:16:38.474 --> 0:16:42.674
<v Speaker 3>I had not because I had followed this story really closely,

0:16:43.234 --> 0:16:46.074
<v Speaker 3>and I had not for a second thought about the

0:16:46.194 --> 0:16:50.114
<v Speaker 3>parenting perspective. I thought about, what if you were Chapel

0:16:50.194 --> 0:16:53.194
<v Speaker 3>Roone and a rogue security guard does something and you're

0:16:53.234 --> 0:16:57.594
<v Speaker 3>accountable for it. I did think about putting somebody on

0:16:57.674 --> 0:17:01.074
<v Speaker 3>blast to four point nine million followers and the ethics

0:17:01.114 --> 0:17:04.793
<v Speaker 3>of that. But as soon as you brought this up Mon's,

0:17:05.834 --> 0:17:10.354
<v Speaker 3>I was like, Oh, that is such a toxic thing

0:17:11.194 --> 0:17:17.833
<v Speaker 3>to teach a kid that if somebody doesn't pander to you,

0:17:18.154 --> 0:17:21.674
<v Speaker 3>that if you're embarrassed. Maybe the security guard came over

0:17:21.754 --> 0:17:23.834
<v Speaker 3>and the eleven year old felt embarrassed, the whole family

0:17:23.874 --> 0:17:31.553
<v Speaker 3>felt embarrassed that you are then entitled to publicly shame

0:17:31.674 --> 0:17:36.434
<v Speaker 3>and humiliate another person. That is such a dangerous thing

0:17:36.754 --> 0:17:40.394
<v Speaker 3>to teach a kid, and the fame thing is really

0:17:40.754 --> 0:17:46.033
<v Speaker 3>like seeing somebody out in public and feeling like you

0:17:46.114 --> 0:17:49.314
<v Speaker 3>should be able to go up to them and engage

0:17:49.314 --> 0:17:51.954
<v Speaker 3>with them. I think phones have really done that that. Yeah,

0:17:51.954 --> 0:17:53.914
<v Speaker 3>an eleven year old would think, but that's Chapel Roone

0:17:53.954 --> 0:17:55.594
<v Speaker 3>and she's in my phone and where friends and I

0:17:55.674 --> 0:17:59.114
<v Speaker 3>listen to. I listened to all her music. I think

0:17:59.114 --> 0:18:02.394
<v Speaker 3>it's really important to explain to a kid, no, that's

0:18:02.434 --> 0:18:06.634
<v Speaker 3>actually a human being who's having her breakfast and we

0:18:06.674 --> 0:18:09.553
<v Speaker 3>don't know what her experience is like, we don't know

0:18:09.594 --> 0:18:14.914
<v Speaker 3>what her day is like. And generally, if somebody behaves

0:18:14.954 --> 0:18:19.714
<v Speaker 3>badly towards you, it's probably a really good idea as

0:18:19.754 --> 0:18:24.274
<v Speaker 3>a parent to try and express what that person's worldview

0:18:24.314 --> 0:18:27.754
<v Speaker 3>could be that, oh, well, we actually know that Chapel

0:18:27.794 --> 0:18:31.914
<v Speaker 3>Rome really struggles with people coming up to her, and

0:18:32.314 --> 0:18:34.554
<v Speaker 3>she really struggles with fame, and she has some struggles

0:18:34.554 --> 0:18:36.114
<v Speaker 3>with her mental health, and she's talked about that and

0:18:36.154 --> 0:18:38.994
<v Speaker 3>blah blah blah, Like, yes, I know that's a very

0:18:39.234 --> 0:18:41.514
<v Speaker 3>kind of evolved thing to do, but it would probably

0:18:41.594 --> 0:18:42.354
<v Speaker 3>be the ideal.

0:18:42.714 --> 0:18:45.314
<v Speaker 1>But I guess the other option is so in that

0:18:45.354 --> 0:18:48.394
<v Speaker 1>circumstance where their daughter's kind of getting this heavy life

0:18:48.474 --> 0:18:50.634
<v Speaker 1>lesson of like something didn't go your way and someone

0:18:50.754 --> 0:18:54.394
<v Speaker 1>was a jerk to you. Yes, you can say, oh,

0:18:54.434 --> 0:18:57.114
<v Speaker 1>but we rise above that and we you know, we're kind.

0:18:57.274 --> 0:18:59.674
<v Speaker 1>We never do that. But the other angle, and I

0:18:59.674 --> 0:19:01.914
<v Speaker 1>guess something that we do have to teach our kids

0:19:01.954 --> 0:19:05.234
<v Speaker 1>at some point is that like, if something happens to you,

0:19:05.274 --> 0:19:07.634
<v Speaker 1>do not have to take it lying down all the time.

0:19:07.714 --> 0:19:10.314
<v Speaker 1>And yes, you know, we're not in a position where

0:19:10.314 --> 0:19:12.954
<v Speaker 1>we'd be blasting it to five million people. I don't

0:19:12.994 --> 0:19:17.313
<v Speaker 1>agree with doing that, but it's definitely a potential thing.

0:19:17.314 --> 0:19:19.553
<v Speaker 1>And it was interesting that both parents did this, So

0:19:19.594 --> 0:19:22.914
<v Speaker 1>the stepfather did this and her mother also kind of

0:19:22.914 --> 0:19:25.313
<v Speaker 1>went on a lengthy doubled down, Yeah, doubled down and

0:19:25.474 --> 0:19:27.793
<v Speaker 1>was like, no, we did this for a reason. We

0:19:27.834 --> 0:19:31.634
<v Speaker 1>stand by what we did, and it's kind of teaching

0:19:31.634 --> 0:19:33.874
<v Speaker 1>your child that, yeah, like we're teaching you to be kind,

0:19:34.234 --> 0:19:36.273
<v Speaker 1>but there might be circumstances that call for you to

0:19:36.314 --> 0:19:39.513
<v Speaker 1>stand up for yourself. And is this not that or

0:19:39.714 --> 0:19:43.154
<v Speaker 1>is this an example of kind of snowplow parenting where

0:19:43.154 --> 0:19:44.714
<v Speaker 1>you're just like, well, you will get your way no

0:19:44.714 --> 0:19:46.594
<v Speaker 1>matter what, and I will help you get that. It's

0:19:46.634 --> 0:19:49.754
<v Speaker 1>a really interesting like fight between the two.

0:19:49.914 --> 0:19:53.354
<v Speaker 3>Because I reckon, this is snowplow parenting. Yeah, I think

0:19:53.794 --> 0:19:56.314
<v Speaker 3>there is. We had a bit of a similar situation.

0:19:56.554 --> 0:19:59.074
<v Speaker 3>I was at the chie you saw Chapel Roade, Oh yeah, yeah,

0:19:59.274 --> 0:20:02.394
<v Speaker 3>exactly the same. We were at the children's hospital with

0:20:02.434 --> 0:20:05.634
<v Speaker 3>Matilda and a lot of other sick kids and one

0:20:05.634 --> 0:20:07.634
<v Speaker 3>of the Wiggles was there. I won't I'd say which

0:20:07.634 --> 0:20:10.154
<v Speaker 3>one in case it gives away the kind of area

0:20:10.194 --> 0:20:12.074
<v Speaker 3>he lives in or whatever. But one of the Wiggles

0:20:12.114 --> 0:20:14.434
<v Speaker 3>was there and I loved him.

0:20:14.594 --> 0:20:17.234
<v Speaker 2>Was that the purple one? Tell me the hot purple?

0:20:17.554 --> 0:20:19.434
<v Speaker 2>It was one that all the mom's are fer. Was

0:20:19.434 --> 0:20:20.354
<v Speaker 2>it the tree of Life?

0:20:20.394 --> 0:20:26.273
<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't, but it was a very recognizable wiggle.

0:20:26.314 --> 0:20:28.874
<v Speaker 3>And my first thought when I saw him was that

0:20:29.034 --> 0:20:32.434
<v Speaker 3>poor poor man, he is here with his sick child

0:20:32.914 --> 0:20:34.834
<v Speaker 3>and every kid in this waiting.

0:20:35.114 --> 0:20:37.074
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't dressed as the wiggle. No, he was in

0:20:37.194 --> 0:20:37.834
<v Speaker 2>nine City.

0:20:37.994 --> 0:20:41.914
<v Speaker 3>No, he was being himself. He was being a dad

0:20:41.954 --> 0:20:47.914
<v Speaker 3>gives off, yes off judy wigs and so he is

0:20:47.954 --> 0:20:51.594
<v Speaker 3>there with his sick kid, and I thought, oh, imagine,

0:20:51.834 --> 0:20:54.034
<v Speaker 3>you've been told there was like a seven hour wait.

0:20:54.114 --> 0:20:56.754
<v Speaker 3>It was just the worst time to be in the

0:20:56.834 --> 0:21:00.834
<v Speaker 3>children's hospital, and I thought, oh god, imagine you're sitting

0:21:00.874 --> 0:21:04.194
<v Speaker 3>there being like, oh god, my kid's screaming and everybody's sick,

0:21:04.554 --> 0:21:07.074
<v Speaker 3>and every kid in that room is looking at him

0:21:07.314 --> 0:21:11.314
<v Speaker 3>being like can I get a picture? Like and I

0:21:11.914 --> 0:21:14.194
<v Speaker 3>just thought, I was like, that's a really important lesson

0:21:14.234 --> 0:21:16.754
<v Speaker 3>to say to your kid. I know that he's on

0:21:16.914 --> 0:21:20.034
<v Speaker 3>our television and we love him unconditionally and we talk

0:21:20.074 --> 0:21:23.714
<v Speaker 3>about him most days, but he is in his own

0:21:23.794 --> 0:21:26.474
<v Speaker 3>situation and you need to shut the hell up.

0:21:26.674 --> 0:21:27.033
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:21:27.514 --> 0:21:30.553
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know that I'd recognize a Wiggle without

0:21:30.634 --> 0:21:34.674
<v Speaker 2>the clothes off really say how deep? How deep are you?

0:21:34.714 --> 0:21:35.154
<v Speaker 1>And Wiggles?

0:21:35.674 --> 0:21:36.714
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, you would know that.

0:21:37.634 --> 0:21:40.274
<v Speaker 3>We go through the names of the Wiggles every evening.

0:21:40.514 --> 0:21:45.354
<v Speaker 3>We like, we are obsessed. Even people who slightly look

0:21:45.434 --> 0:21:50.394
<v Speaker 3>like Wiggles. My daughter loses it. So no, we're very familiar.

0:21:50.394 --> 0:21:53.714
<v Speaker 1>This was probably a very good example of getting a

0:21:53.794 --> 0:21:56.154
<v Speaker 1>no and not getting what you want, which is probably

0:21:56.154 --> 0:21:58.714
<v Speaker 1>what this eleven year old might have needed as well.

0:21:58.874 --> 0:22:02.874
<v Speaker 2>Hang on, hang on. She didn't approach Chapel, she didn't

0:22:03.514 --> 0:22:06.154
<v Speaker 2>ask for the autographer selfie, she didn't interrupt her. In fact,

0:22:06.234 --> 0:22:08.754
<v Speaker 2>Chapel says, I ever even remember seeing this girl, and

0:22:08.994 --> 0:22:14.074
<v Speaker 2>I certainly didn't interact with her. This is like I

0:22:14.074 --> 0:22:16.354
<v Speaker 2>think we're getting we're getting away from the central point,

0:22:16.354 --> 0:22:18.354
<v Speaker 2>which is like there is always this rugpool moment for

0:22:18.434 --> 0:22:21.354
<v Speaker 2>kids in life when it's like you're not the center

0:22:21.434 --> 0:22:23.474
<v Speaker 2>of the universe.

0:22:23.074 --> 0:22:23.954
<v Speaker 3>Anything for everyone.

0:22:24.034 --> 0:22:26.834
<v Speaker 2>Remember that moment as a kid, I remember the moment,

0:22:27.034 --> 0:22:27.273
<v Speaker 2>do you.

0:22:27.594 --> 0:22:30.793
<v Speaker 3>I think it came bloody early because I was a

0:22:30.874 --> 0:22:34.474
<v Speaker 3>twin so I was never I never had the world.

0:22:34.474 --> 0:22:39.434
<v Speaker 3>According to me, everything was compromised, and I think my

0:22:39.554 --> 0:22:43.513
<v Speaker 3>parents were pretty were pretty good at that. But and

0:22:43.554 --> 0:22:46.074
<v Speaker 3>I think maybe that's why I'm a little bit brutal

0:22:46.114 --> 0:22:48.914
<v Speaker 3>on this, and I'm a little bit critical of the

0:22:48.954 --> 0:22:50.674
<v Speaker 3>way those parents responded.

0:22:50.874 --> 0:22:53.273
<v Speaker 1>What was yours? Mon's what did that for you?

0:22:53.474 --> 0:22:56.674
<v Speaker 2>I had a teacher say to me, you're never gonna

0:22:56.674 --> 0:23:03.474
<v Speaker 2>amount to anything, and you're never going to Yeah, you're

0:23:03.474 --> 0:23:05.314
<v Speaker 2>never gonna a mount to anything, and you're never gonna

0:23:05.314 --> 0:23:11.194
<v Speaker 2>play basketball for anyone or be anything. And yeah, my

0:23:11.354 --> 0:23:15.274
<v Speaker 2>parents greatly upset me at the time. And my parents

0:23:15.314 --> 0:23:18.154
<v Speaker 2>are really pragmatic about it. I remember them being like, well, yeah,

0:23:18.154 --> 0:23:20.074
<v Speaker 2>so what are you going to do about it? Like

0:23:20.274 --> 0:23:22.834
<v Speaker 2>not going to the school and knocking on the door

0:23:23.034 --> 0:23:25.273
<v Speaker 2>and saying, how dare you not writing a letter to

0:23:25.314 --> 0:23:27.914
<v Speaker 2>the principles. They put it back on me, Well, yeah,

0:23:28.034 --> 0:23:30.194
<v Speaker 2>life's hard. People say shit, so what are you going

0:23:30.234 --> 0:23:34.434
<v Speaker 2>to do? And like, I used that little tidbit. I

0:23:34.514 --> 0:23:37.074
<v Speaker 2>used that moment for like ten years to motivate me.

0:23:37.714 --> 0:23:41.074
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's a really interesting framing that it's like,

0:23:41.594 --> 0:23:47.594
<v Speaker 3>we don't it's almost like not about them, like this

0:23:48.034 --> 0:23:50.194
<v Speaker 3>this is the world. The world can be cruel and

0:23:50.354 --> 0:23:53.594
<v Speaker 3>unfair and people won't see you for your beautiful light

0:23:54.074 --> 0:23:57.834
<v Speaker 3>in every single moment. But I do reckon if you've

0:23:57.874 --> 0:24:02.874
<v Speaker 3>got the kind of parent who is willing to publicly

0:24:03.034 --> 0:24:09.074
<v Speaker 3>humiliate somebody who didn't, you know, meet your expectations. Because

0:24:09.274 --> 0:24:12.194
<v Speaker 3>although you're right, Mom's like it was about the security guard,

0:24:12.314 --> 0:24:14.914
<v Speaker 3>it's not a bit like chapel Rone wasn't directly involved.

0:24:15.754 --> 0:24:19.154
<v Speaker 3>The implication and the kind of narrative has gone towards

0:24:19.154 --> 0:24:22.434
<v Speaker 3>her from both the parents who were clearly very much

0:24:22.554 --> 0:24:25.714
<v Speaker 3>like why don't you engage with your fans? You're nothing

0:24:25.714 --> 0:24:30.674
<v Speaker 3>without your fans, And if oh, I think that's it seems.

0:24:30.474 --> 0:24:36.033
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, it does feel really pointed, doesn't it, And

0:24:36.114 --> 0:24:38.954
<v Speaker 2>like I understand the feeling of wanting to defend your

0:24:39.034 --> 0:24:41.874
<v Speaker 2>child and and wanting to fight back and wanting to

0:24:41.914 --> 0:24:44.354
<v Speaker 2>stand up for what you believe in. I guess it's that,

0:24:44.554 --> 0:24:48.273
<v Speaker 2>but just on a astronomical level. Given four point nine

0:24:48.314 --> 0:24:48.834
<v Speaker 2>million follows.

0:24:48.954 --> 0:24:53.674
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's a totally different situation, and that

0:24:53.794 --> 0:24:59.914
<v Speaker 3>you've you're clearly willing to hurt somebody to assert your

0:24:59.994 --> 0:25:02.513
<v Speaker 3>child's importance. I think that's a really bad lesson.

0:25:02.714 --> 0:25:06.074
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hurt people, hurt people. That's what I say in

0:25:06.194 --> 0:25:07.074
<v Speaker 2>my kids all the time.

0:25:07.514 --> 0:25:09.594
<v Speaker 3>Oh beautiful, beautiful parenting.

0:25:11.874 --> 0:25:15.114
<v Speaker 1>How likely is it that your friend bails tonight? That's

0:25:15.154 --> 0:25:17.354
<v Speaker 1>the headline I saw from the New Yorker this week

0:25:17.394 --> 0:25:19.474
<v Speaker 1>that stopped me in my tracks. It was this awesome

0:25:19.474 --> 0:25:23.354
<v Speaker 1>piece by Ellen Harold, and she used very serious science,

0:25:23.394 --> 0:25:25.634
<v Speaker 1>and by science I mean her vibes and her vibes

0:25:25.674 --> 0:25:29.594
<v Speaker 1>alone to calculate how likely it is that your hang

0:25:29.674 --> 0:25:32.514
<v Speaker 1>will happen, judged off what people say. So it's basically

0:25:32.794 --> 0:25:35.754
<v Speaker 1>decoding texts and giving them a percentage. So she had

0:25:35.794 --> 0:25:38.274
<v Speaker 1>some like I'm ninety nine percent sure I can make

0:25:38.274 --> 0:25:42.154
<v Speaker 1>it tonight. Really means you're fifty percent sure, or I

0:25:42.194 --> 0:25:45.033
<v Speaker 1>could be convinced means they are in track pants and

0:25:45.074 --> 0:25:48.914
<v Speaker 1>therefore cannot be convinced it is not changing. I'm definitely

0:25:48.954 --> 0:25:51.834
<v Speaker 1>going out tonight. Is for some reason an eighty three

0:25:51.874 --> 0:25:52.834
<v Speaker 1>percent chance?

0:25:53.114 --> 0:25:54.474
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, no, you can reneg on.

0:25:54.674 --> 0:25:57.754
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, definitely. So basically, what I wanted to do

0:25:57.954 --> 0:26:01.354
<v Speaker 1>is a parent's edition of this and give you some

0:26:01.514 --> 0:26:03.674
<v Speaker 1>of mine, and you can tell me what you think

0:26:03.674 --> 0:26:06.513
<v Speaker 1>the percentage is that this person is actually going.

0:26:06.714 --> 0:26:10.074
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, these actual texts that people have sent you, and.

0:26:10.194 --> 0:26:14.714
<v Speaker 1>No, just my vibe, very serious science mom, this is

0:26:14.874 --> 0:26:17.394
<v Speaker 1>my vibes of what the answer to this is. Okay,

0:26:17.434 --> 0:26:20.634
<v Speaker 1>So if someone said you, baby Billy was up coughing

0:26:20.714 --> 0:26:24.274
<v Speaker 1>last night, but I should be totally fine to come, what's.

0:26:24.074 --> 0:26:30.914
<v Speaker 2>The coming of the percentage? Yeah, are less eighteen percent?

0:26:30.994 --> 0:26:35.154
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I went twelve percent. You've already taken your bra off.

0:26:35.394 --> 0:26:38.394
<v Speaker 1>Billy is not that sick, and you have two episodes

0:26:38.434 --> 0:26:40.793
<v Speaker 1>of maths to catch up on. And this is what

0:26:40.914 --> 0:26:43.914
<v Speaker 1>children are good for. The ultimate excuse when you don't

0:26:43.994 --> 0:26:44.434
<v Speaker 1>want to go.

0:26:44.634 --> 0:26:49.434
<v Speaker 3>It's the word fine shop fine, nothing is fine.

0:26:49.514 --> 0:26:52.794
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, okay, here's another one. It's been such

0:26:52.794 --> 0:26:55.434
<v Speaker 1>a crazy week. Excited to see you tomorrow though.

0:26:56.954 --> 0:26:57.674
<v Speaker 2>No, she's not.

0:26:58.554 --> 0:26:59.154
<v Speaker 1>No, she's not.

0:26:59.634 --> 0:27:02.474
<v Speaker 2>It's been a crazy week. She's again getting in her

0:27:02.554 --> 0:27:03.313
<v Speaker 2>Traxi pants.

0:27:03.474 --> 0:27:07.034
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, crazy week is not a good sign. No,

0:27:07.474 --> 0:27:11.513
<v Speaker 3>but looking forward to seeing you tomorrow now, it's though,

0:27:11.594 --> 0:27:12.754
<v Speaker 3>it's though.

0:27:12.994 --> 0:27:16.594
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh twenty five, twenty five.

0:27:16.754 --> 0:27:19.074
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm saying about twenty five as well.

0:27:19.154 --> 0:27:20.434
<v Speaker 1>I said forty percent.

0:27:20.714 --> 0:27:20.954
<v Speaker 5>Okay.

0:27:21.874 --> 0:27:24.354
<v Speaker 1>It will all depend on whether you get your period

0:27:24.474 --> 0:27:26.674
<v Speaker 1>or your husband so much as breeds loudly in your

0:27:26.674 --> 0:27:29.994
<v Speaker 1>general vicinity, which will send you into a rage cleaning meltdown,

0:27:30.394 --> 0:27:31.354
<v Speaker 1>and then you won't be able.

0:27:31.714 --> 0:27:34.274
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're like one obstacle away.

0:27:34.394 --> 0:27:37.234
<v Speaker 1>From from not going, so it may happen.

0:27:37.314 --> 0:27:40.474
<v Speaker 2>That's fair. It's the term crazy week. Like sometimes when

0:27:40.474 --> 0:27:42.554
<v Speaker 2>you've had a crazy week, you do need to blow

0:27:42.594 --> 0:27:45.234
<v Speaker 2>off steam. Yeah, exactly, little Margie.

0:27:45.674 --> 0:27:48.914
<v Speaker 1>It could go either way. Yes, okay, here's my last one.

0:27:49.234 --> 0:27:51.754
<v Speaker 1>I've organized mum to take Billy for the night, so

0:27:51.874 --> 0:27:53.274
<v Speaker 1>excited for some cocktails.

0:27:53.714 --> 0:27:54.594
<v Speaker 3>Nine nine point.

0:27:56.834 --> 0:28:00.554
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I said, I said. Not even a catastrophic weather

0:28:00.594 --> 0:28:01.594
<v Speaker 1>event don't stop you.

0:28:01.914 --> 0:28:04.434
<v Speaker 3>It does not matter if your child is out of

0:28:04.474 --> 0:28:09.674
<v Speaker 3>your care. Yes, I could be so unwell exactly, I

0:28:09.794 --> 0:28:14.114
<v Speaker 3>could have learned some devastating news. But I am processing

0:28:14.154 --> 0:28:15.194
<v Speaker 3>that over drink.

0:28:14.994 --> 0:28:17.114
<v Speaker 1>With my friend. Yes, and this is probably the only

0:28:17.234 --> 0:28:20.313
<v Speaker 1>night you both have in the last three months that

0:28:20.394 --> 0:28:23.234
<v Speaker 1>you could make this work. So it is happening.

0:28:23.314 --> 0:28:27.434
<v Speaker 2>It does not fu Yeah, I'm fake tanning for that coming.

0:28:27.914 --> 0:28:28.634
<v Speaker 2>I'm fake tanning.

0:28:28.674 --> 0:28:29.074
<v Speaker 1>I'm putting.

0:28:29.114 --> 0:28:30.394
<v Speaker 2>I'm using makeup that night.

0:28:30.514 --> 0:28:33.754
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, the fancy stuff, not just the stuff at

0:28:33.754 --> 0:28:37.033
<v Speaker 1>the bottom and the draw. Okay, So there is a

0:28:37.074 --> 0:28:39.834
<v Speaker 1>new trend that's everywhere this week, and it's really riled

0:28:39.874 --> 0:28:42.554
<v Speaker 1>me up. I thought I was above getting angry at

0:28:42.554 --> 0:28:44.514
<v Speaker 1>strangers on the internet. I really did. I thought it

0:28:44.554 --> 0:28:46.594
<v Speaker 1>was more evolved than that. But apparently I'm not.

0:28:46.754 --> 0:28:47.354
<v Speaker 3>None of us though.

0:28:48.074 --> 0:28:51.834
<v Speaker 1>No, Well, it got me good this week. So this

0:28:51.954 --> 0:28:54.554
<v Speaker 1>is called the sibling effect, and it's where parents make

0:28:54.634 --> 0:28:57.474
<v Speaker 1>videos of their kids before the sibling comes along. So

0:28:57.514 --> 0:28:59.474
<v Speaker 1>it might be like a little girl sitting on a

0:28:59.474 --> 0:29:03.234
<v Speaker 1>bench having an ice cream or like playing quietly with

0:29:03.314 --> 0:29:05.434
<v Speaker 1>her toys, and it's set to a lot of them

0:29:05.474 --> 0:29:08.514
<v Speaker 1>are set to that song American Pie by Don McLain,

0:29:08.674 --> 0:29:12.594
<v Speaker 1>you know where he's like the day the music dad,

0:29:13.114 --> 0:29:16.074
<v Speaker 1>and then it gets very upbeat and happy. So that's

0:29:16.114 --> 0:29:19.994
<v Speaker 1>the before is like sad, lonely child, sad quiet music.

0:29:20.354 --> 0:29:23.874
<v Speaker 1>And the after is the child with their siblings. So

0:29:24.114 --> 0:29:29.354
<v Speaker 1>cute of course, siblings cuddling siblings on a seesaw. It's

0:29:29.554 --> 0:29:33.394
<v Speaker 1>very sweet on first glance, and it often is accompanied

0:29:33.394 --> 0:29:36.114
<v Speaker 1>by a caption that says, now they'll never have to

0:29:36.194 --> 0:29:39.754
<v Speaker 1>walk life alone. And I can see why if you

0:29:39.874 --> 0:29:42.634
<v Speaker 1>have kids, if you have multiple kids, you want to

0:29:42.674 --> 0:29:44.834
<v Speaker 1>share this footage. This is the gold standard. This is

0:29:44.834 --> 0:29:47.314
<v Speaker 1>what you hope for siblings, that they'll get along like

0:29:47.354 --> 0:29:52.234
<v Speaker 1>that and have that relationship. But it starts to get

0:29:52.274 --> 0:29:55.554
<v Speaker 1>particularly hurtful for one group of parents, of which I

0:29:55.634 --> 0:29:59.874
<v Speaker 1>belong to. So I'm going to be the spokesperson today. Yes, please,

0:30:00.634 --> 0:30:02.954
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get on my high horse, because for

0:30:03.034 --> 0:30:06.394
<v Speaker 1>families with one child, whether that is through choice or

0:30:06.434 --> 0:30:10.034
<v Speaker 1>whether that is through circumstance, this is sending a very

0:30:10.074 --> 0:30:13.074
<v Speaker 1>clear message that your child will always be stuck in

0:30:13.114 --> 0:30:16.874
<v Speaker 1>the before that there's this other better version of their

0:30:16.954 --> 0:30:20.314
<v Speaker 1>life just here, just out of grasp. But either you're

0:30:20.394 --> 0:30:22.754
<v Speaker 1>choosing not to give it to them, or you don't

0:30:22.794 --> 0:30:25.594
<v Speaker 1>have the ability or circumstances to be able to give

0:30:25.594 --> 0:30:28.954
<v Speaker 1>it to them. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable

0:30:29.034 --> 0:30:31.274
<v Speaker 1>with this. You can both tell me to get a grip,

0:30:31.674 --> 0:30:34.394
<v Speaker 1>but it's just settled in me this week, and I

0:30:34.554 --> 0:30:36.914
<v Speaker 1>really needed to talk to you, both of them.

0:30:37.714 --> 0:30:41.434
<v Speaker 3>I have also been triggered by the same trend for

0:30:41.554 --> 0:30:44.154
<v Speaker 3>different reasons. Okay, so I like that it's triggering for

0:30:44.194 --> 0:30:48.474
<v Speaker 3>both of us together. The reason it was triggering for

0:30:48.554 --> 0:30:52.074
<v Speaker 3>me because obviously started coming up and I was like, yeah, yeah,

0:30:52.674 --> 0:30:56.994
<v Speaker 3>But then I noticed there were a lot the further

0:30:57.074 --> 0:31:00.354
<v Speaker 3>I got into this rabbit hole, there were a lot

0:31:00.474 --> 0:31:04.394
<v Speaker 3>that were about sisters, and it was about like, there's

0:31:04.434 --> 0:31:08.234
<v Speaker 3>no relationship like a sister. And then I got in

0:31:08.274 --> 0:31:12.394
<v Speaker 3>my head thinking, oh, I'm not giving Matilda a sister.

0:31:12.434 --> 0:31:15.194
<v Speaker 3>I'm giving her a brother, and it's not really in

0:31:15.234 --> 0:31:17.434
<v Speaker 3>my control. If I ever give her a sister, it's

0:31:17.474 --> 0:31:20.114
<v Speaker 3>not really in my control. If I give this boy

0:31:20.154 --> 0:31:24.874
<v Speaker 3>a brother, that's not in anyone's control. And I started thinking.

0:31:24.954 --> 0:31:26.594
<v Speaker 3>Then I started thinking, I'm like, well, I love my

0:31:26.794 --> 0:31:29.354
<v Speaker 3>sister and she's a really important part of my life,

0:31:29.394 --> 0:31:31.674
<v Speaker 3>and I'm not what if Matilda doesn't have that, and

0:31:31.674 --> 0:31:35.634
<v Speaker 3>have I deprived her of That really really got me

0:31:36.514 --> 0:31:41.794
<v Speaker 3>into this cycle of shame over something that even if

0:31:41.834 --> 0:31:46.394
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to I can't control. And it did make

0:31:46.434 --> 0:31:51.114
<v Speaker 3>me think also about how that trend set such high

0:31:51.194 --> 0:31:54.474
<v Speaker 3>expectations for what the bond is going to be like

0:31:54.554 --> 0:31:57.914
<v Speaker 3>between the kids when a second or third or whatever arrives,

0:31:58.634 --> 0:32:02.914
<v Speaker 3>and what the family dynamic is going to be like.

0:32:03.074 --> 0:32:05.514
<v Speaker 3>The other thing that a lot of those videos have

0:32:06.394 --> 0:32:10.794
<v Speaker 3>is the moment that the kids meet. But also Mon's

0:32:10.994 --> 0:32:13.834
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if you had this like that is a

0:32:13.914 --> 0:32:16.714
<v Speaker 3>huge trend as well, like the moment that you bring

0:32:16.794 --> 0:32:19.834
<v Speaker 3>your toddler into all your other child into the hospital

0:32:19.874 --> 0:32:22.554
<v Speaker 3>to meet the newborn. And so many of my friends

0:32:23.194 --> 0:32:28.274
<v Speaker 3>have said that was toxic for me because one, who

0:32:28.714 --> 0:32:30.434
<v Speaker 3>it may not look like that. You may have a

0:32:30.474 --> 0:32:32.754
<v Speaker 3>premie baby and they may be in NICU and you

0:32:32.794 --> 0:32:35.874
<v Speaker 3>may not want a toddler around them. Two, a lot

0:32:35.914 --> 0:32:38.754
<v Speaker 3>of toddlers, they're not going to get it. They're gonna scream,

0:32:38.754 --> 0:32:40.314
<v Speaker 3>they're gonna like wait till you're home.

0:32:40.434 --> 0:32:43.514
<v Speaker 1>Even older kids like they might not care. It's the

0:32:43.674 --> 0:32:46.314
<v Speaker 1>meeting a blob at that point, and so it may

0:32:46.354 --> 0:32:49.234
<v Speaker 1>not be that magical moment. And I think that's what

0:32:49.754 --> 0:32:53.594
<v Speaker 1>this is. It's romanticizing of a sibling in every way,

0:32:54.034 --> 0:32:56.754
<v Speaker 1>in any way it comes it's saying that this is

0:32:56.794 --> 0:32:59.194
<v Speaker 1>going to be such a magical thing, and why aren't

0:32:59.234 --> 0:33:01.194
<v Speaker 1>you giving that to your child?

0:33:01.434 --> 0:33:04.314
<v Speaker 2>I think I want to say, first up off the bat,

0:33:04.394 --> 0:33:07.474
<v Speaker 2>I'm really sorry you had to see that, Stacy, and

0:33:07.634 --> 0:33:10.554
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry that it elected such an emotional reaction in you.

0:33:10.634 --> 0:33:12.514
<v Speaker 2>And as it would as it would right like this

0:33:12.594 --> 0:33:15.514
<v Speaker 2>sits at This is kind of on the surface for you, right,

0:33:15.554 --> 0:33:17.394
<v Speaker 2>it's front of mine for you. You've talked about it

0:33:17.434 --> 0:33:19.954
<v Speaker 2>on this podcast before. And it sucks that you have

0:33:20.034 --> 0:33:22.274
<v Speaker 2>to scroll through your feed, which is probably a source

0:33:22.314 --> 0:33:24.994
<v Speaker 2>of entertainment delight most of the time, and then see

0:33:24.994 --> 0:33:27.554
<v Speaker 2>this kind of stuff. And I want to say thank

0:33:27.594 --> 0:33:29.714
<v Speaker 2>you for bringing this topic to the show, because it

0:33:29.754 --> 0:33:31.194
<v Speaker 2>would have been one of those things that I just

0:33:31.194 --> 0:33:35.034
<v Speaker 2>scrolled past and not thought about. But hearing that perspective

0:33:35.154 --> 0:33:38.314
<v Speaker 2>of someone that has one is really important, and it's

0:33:38.314 --> 0:33:41.154
<v Speaker 2>not something that we hear that often. I don't understand.

0:33:41.154 --> 0:33:44.714
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a marketing person, Like, what would compel a

0:33:44.834 --> 0:33:47.594
<v Speaker 2>mother or a family or a father to make this

0:33:47.754 --> 0:33:49.914
<v Speaker 2>kind of content? I don't know, you're both content makers.

0:33:49.994 --> 0:33:52.114
<v Speaker 2>Why are they doing this? What are they trying to say?

0:33:52.554 --> 0:33:55.474
<v Speaker 1>I think it's because you know, so much of what

0:33:55.514 --> 0:33:57.234
<v Speaker 1>we see on the internet. We're smart enough to know

0:33:57.314 --> 0:33:58.834
<v Speaker 1>this now, is that a lot of it is to

0:33:58.914 --> 0:34:01.834
<v Speaker 1>elicit a reaction. They don't necessarily care if it's a

0:34:01.834 --> 0:34:04.394
<v Speaker 1>positive or negative one. And if you look at these videos,

0:34:04.434 --> 0:34:06.594
<v Speaker 1>the comments are very much split in half. You've got

0:34:06.634 --> 0:34:09.113
<v Speaker 1>people saying and completely agree, it's a bomb like no other,

0:34:09.514 --> 0:34:11.314
<v Speaker 1>and then you've got other people saying, I think I'd

0:34:11.393 --> 0:34:13.874
<v Speaker 1>rather my child have a happy parent who's not stretched

0:34:13.873 --> 0:34:16.913
<v Speaker 1>beyond their means than give them a sibling, purely out

0:34:16.914 --> 0:34:20.194
<v Speaker 1>of service to them. But it very much feels like

0:34:20.234 --> 0:34:22.873
<v Speaker 1>by doing that and creating this content that's kind of

0:34:22.994 --> 0:34:26.514
<v Speaker 1>meant to get these big reactions. It's almost forced parents

0:34:26.554 --> 0:34:31.274
<v Speaker 1>into trying to advocate for their choice, like and trying

0:34:31.314 --> 0:34:34.473
<v Speaker 1>to make their choice the better choice and showing and

0:34:34.514 --> 0:34:37.393
<v Speaker 1>showing that. But I think one of the reasons it

0:34:37.434 --> 0:34:40.314
<v Speaker 1>does it does hit a nerve. And the thing that

0:34:40.434 --> 0:34:42.994
<v Speaker 1>kind of bothered me most about it is because the

0:34:42.994 --> 0:34:46.394
<v Speaker 1>biggest question you do ask when you've got one child

0:34:46.554 --> 0:34:49.714
<v Speaker 1>is do I owe my child a sibling? Like it

0:34:49.834 --> 0:34:52.513
<v Speaker 1>is something that I'm surprised plays on your mind even

0:34:52.514 --> 0:34:54.754
<v Speaker 1>when you're quite set in that decision, even when you're

0:34:54.754 --> 0:34:57.834
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent set in that decision. And for people.

0:34:57.554 --> 0:35:00.234
<v Speaker 2>Because you're getting pressure, you're getting pressure from more side stages.

0:35:00.354 --> 0:35:02.554
<v Speaker 2>It's not like an internal thing. It's the message is

0:35:02.594 --> 0:35:05.433
<v Speaker 2>that you're being sent constantly, is asking you when are

0:35:05.474 --> 0:35:07.393
<v Speaker 2>you having another one? It's people asking you do you

0:35:07.394 --> 0:35:09.194
<v Speaker 2>have a brother or sister? Like, it's all of those

0:35:09.274 --> 0:35:12.513
<v Speaker 2>things yeah, but are just like subconsciously ticking away all

0:35:12.554 --> 0:35:12.873
<v Speaker 2>the time.

0:35:13.034 --> 0:35:15.274
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And for people in that position, it's like a

0:35:15.314 --> 0:35:17.754
<v Speaker 1>constant loop of why am I not strong enough to

0:35:17.754 --> 0:35:19.834
<v Speaker 1>do that? Or why won't my body do that? Or

0:35:19.874 --> 0:35:21.954
<v Speaker 1>why don't I feel the urge to do that again?

0:35:22.034 --> 0:35:24.034
<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of a lot of these feelings of

0:35:24.074 --> 0:35:26.154
<v Speaker 1>guilt that you have lay it on, and then when

0:35:26.234 --> 0:35:29.794
<v Speaker 1>you see this picture perfect version of what that could be,

0:35:30.794 --> 0:35:33.874
<v Speaker 1>it does make you feel bad, like it really does.

0:35:33.994 --> 0:35:36.393
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know what the answer to that is

0:35:36.434 --> 0:35:38.913
<v Speaker 1>in terms of, you know, this isn't to shit on

0:35:38.994 --> 0:35:42.754
<v Speaker 1>people that have multiple kids like that is a wonderful

0:35:42.834 --> 0:35:45.393
<v Speaker 1>choice for so many families, But it's like, how can

0:35:45.474 --> 0:35:49.194
<v Speaker 1>we all coexist in this space where whatever choice you

0:35:49.274 --> 0:35:51.114
<v Speaker 1>made is fine and we don't have to call it

0:35:51.154 --> 0:35:52.274
<v Speaker 1>an effect.

0:35:52.074 --> 0:35:54.754
<v Speaker 3>But it is. It is that idea of like when

0:35:54.794 --> 0:35:58.794
<v Speaker 3>you turn something into a trend and yet put romantic

0:35:58.874 --> 0:36:02.794
<v Speaker 3>music behind it, all of that you are suggesting that

0:36:02.794 --> 0:36:06.194
<v Speaker 3>that thing that you have done is the ideal and

0:36:06.314 --> 0:36:09.274
<v Speaker 3>other people who don't do it are lacking. And it

0:36:09.394 --> 0:36:13.033
<v Speaker 3>goes for so many aspects of parenting. And I think

0:36:13.194 --> 0:36:16.033
<v Speaker 3>every parent who has ever been on the internet has

0:36:16.154 --> 0:36:20.953
<v Speaker 3>felt shame and as though they're doing something wrong, and

0:36:21.634 --> 0:36:23.754
<v Speaker 3>that I used to get it. I remember when I

0:36:23.834 --> 0:36:26.314
<v Speaker 3>got it, very cutely, was when I was struggling with

0:36:26.354 --> 0:36:30.473
<v Speaker 3>breastfeeding and everything was like these mums like crying while

0:36:30.474 --> 0:36:32.553
<v Speaker 3>they were breastfeeding and just saying how it's the most

0:36:32.594 --> 0:36:35.834
<v Speaker 3>magical experience and the tragedy of the last time, the

0:36:35.914 --> 0:36:38.674
<v Speaker 3>last feed and all of that, and I would just

0:36:38.714 --> 0:36:42.074
<v Speaker 3>be thinking, oh my god, Like I like, I know,

0:36:42.434 --> 0:36:44.634
<v Speaker 3>I know it's important, I know the science, I know

0:36:44.754 --> 0:36:47.994
<v Speaker 3>all of that. I am really struggling with something that

0:36:48.154 --> 0:36:52.594
<v Speaker 3>I cannot control, and I am just being bombarded with

0:36:53.674 --> 0:36:56.473
<v Speaker 3>the emotion of it. Like there's one thing to know,

0:36:57.274 --> 0:37:00.834
<v Speaker 3>to know facts about what's good for your child whatever,

0:37:01.074 --> 0:37:06.274
<v Speaker 3>but there's another thing. The emotional guilt is bloody horrific.

0:37:06.514 --> 0:37:06.954
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:37:07.434 --> 0:37:10.474
<v Speaker 2>I think the question was that you asked Claire earlier,

0:37:10.794 --> 0:37:14.434
<v Speaker 2>who is this for? And that is such an interesting

0:37:14.514 --> 0:37:17.034
<v Speaker 2>question to ask, because I think if we if you

0:37:17.274 --> 0:37:19.594
<v Speaker 2>reached out to one of these influences that made one

0:37:19.674 --> 0:37:22.433
<v Speaker 2>of these sibling effect videos and said like, what are

0:37:22.434 --> 0:37:25.034
<v Speaker 2>you doing? Do you realize like this is hurting people?

0:37:25.394 --> 0:37:28.114
<v Speaker 2>Their intention would never be to do that. You know,

0:37:28.194 --> 0:37:31.114
<v Speaker 2>it might be Devil's Advocate that who this is for

0:37:31.834 --> 0:37:35.194
<v Speaker 2>is for the parents to go to try and legitimize

0:37:35.234 --> 0:37:38.834
<v Speaker 2>their decision, to capture the memories, to be able to

0:37:38.834 --> 0:37:41.033
<v Speaker 2>look back on it and remember how little their kids were,

0:37:41.074 --> 0:37:43.954
<v Speaker 2>to make themselves feel better, and to make them feel

0:37:43.954 --> 0:37:46.354
<v Speaker 2>like they're in control of something which is kind of

0:37:46.394 --> 0:37:49.234
<v Speaker 2>out of our control. Like parenting, you lose a lot

0:37:49.274 --> 0:37:51.474
<v Speaker 2>of control in it. So maybe I don't know, just

0:37:51.514 --> 0:37:55.474
<v Speaker 2>like Devil's Advocate that this isn't supposed to be making

0:37:55.554 --> 0:37:58.354
<v Speaker 2>other people feel bad, it's an effect of it. But

0:37:58.474 --> 0:38:02.834
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's just actually about controlling something in a landscape

0:38:02.874 --> 0:38:06.274
<v Speaker 2>that feels really out of control. This part of the

0:38:06.314 --> 0:38:10.834
<v Speaker 2>shows where we reckon amend things that we actually love sick.

0:38:11.314 --> 0:38:14.354
<v Speaker 2>We might have seen something on Instagram that we in

0:38:14.394 --> 0:38:16.873
<v Speaker 2>fact brings us joy and delight, or we might have

0:38:16.914 --> 0:38:20.274
<v Speaker 2>bought something, or used something or done something. So recommendations

0:38:20.354 --> 0:38:25.274
<v Speaker 2>Claire Pragante, Pregante News. What's from the Pregante Dispatches. What

0:38:25.314 --> 0:38:26.714
<v Speaker 2>are you obsessed with this week?

0:38:26.994 --> 0:38:32.714
<v Speaker 3>Okay? So I have followed this midwife on TikTok forever,

0:38:32.834 --> 0:38:35.393
<v Speaker 3>since the very early days of TikTok. Her name is

0:38:35.474 --> 0:38:39.194
<v Speaker 3>Jen Hamilton. She is a labor and delivery nurse in

0:38:39.194 --> 0:38:42.714
<v Speaker 3>the US. She also used to be an er nurse,

0:38:42.754 --> 0:38:46.714
<v Speaker 3>so there's an ed nurse, so she has some amazing

0:38:46.714 --> 0:38:49.034
<v Speaker 3>stories about that as well. But she's now written a

0:38:49.034 --> 0:38:51.994
<v Speaker 3>book called Birth Vibes, which kind of sums up like

0:38:52.554 --> 0:38:57.074
<v Speaker 3>just what her energy is generally, which is very She

0:38:57.274 --> 0:39:02.794
<v Speaker 3>has an amazing way of explaining labor, birth postpartum in

0:39:02.834 --> 0:39:06.834
<v Speaker 3>a warm, empathetic way while still getting across all the

0:39:06.874 --> 0:39:11.994
<v Speaker 3>media information while acknowledging the nuances of all of it

0:39:12.034 --> 0:39:17.114
<v Speaker 3>that the medical system sometimes isn't perfect for what a

0:39:17.194 --> 0:39:21.913
<v Speaker 3>mum wants, and so she is just my go to

0:39:21.994 --> 0:39:26.354
<v Speaker 3>at the moment. Every video she posts, I absolutely love it.

0:39:26.434 --> 0:39:30.274
<v Speaker 3>She did one the other day that was about the

0:39:30.394 --> 0:39:33.594
<v Speaker 3>tension between if you are about to deliver your baby

0:39:33.674 --> 0:39:37.194
<v Speaker 3>and you are saying I don't want x Y and

0:39:37.274 --> 0:39:39.074
<v Speaker 3>Z or I do want X Y and Z. And

0:39:39.114 --> 0:39:42.834
<v Speaker 3>she's very very good at telling people how to advocate

0:39:42.874 --> 0:39:45.714
<v Speaker 3>for themselves and what is your choice and what isn't well,

0:39:45.754 --> 0:39:48.393
<v Speaker 3>not that anything isn't your choice, but basically how to

0:39:48.434 --> 0:39:50.594
<v Speaker 3>word things, what questions to ask, all of that, how

0:39:50.594 --> 0:39:52.994
<v Speaker 3>to be prepared. But she also explained that from the

0:39:53.034 --> 0:39:57.393
<v Speaker 3>perspective of a midwife or an obstetrician, they have a

0:39:57.474 --> 0:40:00.114
<v Speaker 3>duty of care where they can't do anything to you

0:40:00.234 --> 0:40:07.393
<v Speaker 3>that they don't think is correct. So she describes in

0:40:07.474 --> 0:40:11.514
<v Speaker 3>standoffs sometimes where a mother is advocating for something that

0:40:11.514 --> 0:40:14.474
<v Speaker 3>the doctor physically will not do, and she's like, I

0:40:14.474 --> 0:40:17.433
<v Speaker 3>don't have an answer to it, but I'm telling you

0:40:17.474 --> 0:40:20.234
<v Speaker 3>that these situations arise not because anyone's evil, not because

0:40:20.234 --> 0:40:23.314
<v Speaker 3>anyone is trying to get in the way of your rights,

0:40:23.314 --> 0:40:27.034
<v Speaker 3>but just because that is the conflict in medicine. So

0:40:27.154 --> 0:40:31.354
<v Speaker 3>she has so many birth stories, she has so many

0:40:31.834 --> 0:40:35.473
<v Speaker 3>just great examples of the way birth can go, and

0:40:35.554 --> 0:40:38.914
<v Speaker 3>just every question you have ever had about C section induction,

0:40:40.074 --> 0:40:44.354
<v Speaker 3>how all of it can go. She is so so

0:40:44.354 --> 0:40:46.594
<v Speaker 3>so clever and she I watch her and I'm like,

0:40:46.634 --> 0:40:49.274
<v Speaker 3>that is the midwife you want in the room, who

0:40:49.434 --> 0:40:51.873
<v Speaker 3>will look you in the eye and say this is

0:40:51.914 --> 0:40:54.994
<v Speaker 3>all up to you, like, we are going at your pace.

0:40:55.354 --> 0:40:56.794
<v Speaker 3>I am not going to do anything to you that

0:40:56.834 --> 0:41:01.354
<v Speaker 3>you do not consent to, and we care about you

0:41:01.394 --> 0:41:03.553
<v Speaker 3>as much as we care about your baby. She's also

0:41:03.914 --> 0:41:07.234
<v Speaker 3>got great stories about some of the things that men

0:41:07.314 --> 0:41:12.434
<v Speaker 3>do in the delivery room, which I faint no like,

0:41:12.434 --> 0:41:17.473
<v Speaker 3>like men who bring in like video games and men

0:41:17.554 --> 0:41:19.994
<v Speaker 3>who just say the wrong thing, and and it's like, no,

0:41:20.154 --> 0:41:22.314
<v Speaker 3>the midwives are not here for you, so.

0:41:22.434 --> 0:41:24.834
<v Speaker 2>We are pro we are pro dad on this show.

0:41:25.314 --> 0:41:27.954
<v Speaker 2>Are the stories? Are there stories of good duds showing

0:41:28.034 --> 0:41:29.033
<v Speaker 2>up in the delivery rooms?

0:41:29.274 --> 0:41:33.354
<v Speaker 3>So many, so many, and overwhelmingly she's very, very positive,

0:41:33.714 --> 0:41:36.474
<v Speaker 3>But every now and then there are those stories just

0:41:36.514 --> 0:41:40.954
<v Speaker 3>in the context of how much you are as a midwife.

0:41:41.394 --> 0:41:43.274
<v Speaker 3>You are there for that woman and you are directing

0:41:43.274 --> 0:41:46.434
<v Speaker 3>all your questions to her and not and not the partner.

0:41:46.994 --> 0:41:49.554
<v Speaker 3>So I just say go and have a binge on

0:41:49.594 --> 0:41:51.794
<v Speaker 3>her videos. They are endlessly entertained.

0:41:51.834 --> 0:41:53.993
<v Speaker 1>I actually love a birth story like I will never

0:41:54.034 --> 0:41:56.834
<v Speaker 1>get s birth stories. I think they're the best, like

0:41:57.394 --> 0:41:59.873
<v Speaker 1>and it's probably for you. It probably feels like exposure

0:41:59.914 --> 0:42:03.114
<v Speaker 1>therapy too. If I just hear all the different variables.

0:42:03.394 --> 0:42:05.714
<v Speaker 1>Then whichever one it is, I've got like an anecdotal

0:42:05.754 --> 0:42:07.114
<v Speaker 1>story about where.

0:42:07.194 --> 0:42:12.274
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she's very open about smells. The fact that you

0:42:12.274 --> 0:42:15.554
<v Speaker 3>you will pooh, yeah, and that's okay, and your midwife

0:42:15.634 --> 0:42:18.034
<v Speaker 3>loves that for you. If you if you are pooing,

0:42:18.154 --> 0:42:20.754
<v Speaker 3>your midwife is like you are pushing, pushing so well,

0:42:21.394 --> 0:42:22.554
<v Speaker 3>So it's very reassuring.

0:42:23.114 --> 0:42:23.473
<v Speaker 1>Love it.

0:42:23.594 --> 0:42:28.473
<v Speaker 2>Five poos here, five poos. Yeah, they call me five

0:42:28.514 --> 0:42:34.634
<v Speaker 2>pooh bowlie. They kept I think because one delivery. Yeah,

0:42:34.674 --> 0:42:36.154
<v Speaker 2>I think your wives are bloody amazing.

0:42:36.474 --> 0:42:37.754
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I really bond.

0:42:38.074 --> 0:42:40.433
<v Speaker 3>The bond you have with your midwives by the end

0:42:40.474 --> 0:42:43.514
<v Speaker 3>of it, Oh, it's something else, really.

0:42:43.594 --> 0:42:46.033
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like that moment in a nightclub in the

0:42:46.074 --> 0:42:49.114
<v Speaker 2>bathroom when you're friends the little girls like that time's

0:42:49.154 --> 0:42:52.314
<v Speaker 2>a thousand. Yeah, it's so good.

0:42:52.154 --> 0:42:53.434
<v Speaker 3>Because they've seen your age.

0:42:53.594 --> 0:43:01.634
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and the pain. But the aforementioned stacy. Yeah, one

0:43:01.834 --> 0:43:06.594
<v Speaker 1>from one suspicious fluid to another. Yes, I have been

0:43:06.634 --> 0:43:11.754
<v Speaker 1>putting snail secretion on my face and loving it. And look,

0:43:11.834 --> 0:43:14.114
<v Speaker 1>I'm about two years later to this trend, so you

0:43:14.194 --> 0:43:16.594
<v Speaker 1>too might be like, Yes, people have been doing this

0:43:16.634 --> 0:43:18.554
<v Speaker 1>for a long time. I know they speak about it

0:43:18.554 --> 0:43:20.234
<v Speaker 1>on New Beauty. They've been speaking about it on New

0:43:20.274 --> 0:43:21.074
<v Speaker 1>Beauty for years.

0:43:21.194 --> 0:43:23.474
<v Speaker 3>I've never done it, so I need Okay.

0:43:23.714 --> 0:43:24.433
<v Speaker 1>So it's the.

0:43:25.114 --> 0:43:26.554
<v Speaker 2>Does it smell like snail?

0:43:26.994 --> 0:43:29.914
<v Speaker 1>No, it kind of does it sort of like anything.

0:43:30.914 --> 0:43:33.594
<v Speaker 2>You know when snails have that the it like it's

0:43:33.594 --> 0:43:36.674
<v Speaker 2>a fluorescent trail. Your face get fluorescent, well.

0:43:36.674 --> 0:43:38.794
<v Speaker 1>Not fluorescent, but that is kind of the effect it has.

0:43:38.994 --> 0:43:44.114
<v Speaker 1>So it's the cost RX snail Muken Power Essence twenty

0:43:44.194 --> 0:43:46.714
<v Speaker 1>one bucks on Amazon. I saw it cheaper and they

0:43:46.714 --> 0:43:48.954
<v Speaker 1>sell it in Kmart now, which I didn't realize. So

0:43:49.074 --> 0:43:52.554
<v Speaker 1>that's also fun, so very affordable. But it's essentially like

0:43:52.594 --> 0:43:56.154
<v Speaker 1>a serum, like you're putting it on as a syrus.

0:43:56.234 --> 0:43:58.674
<v Speaker 3>Is it hydrating? Is that idea? Okay?

0:43:58.674 --> 0:44:02.714
<v Speaker 1>So it gives you a face like a plump baby's thigh,

0:44:03.114 --> 0:44:06.314
<v Speaker 1>you know, just that like us delicious feeling. So I

0:44:06.394 --> 0:44:09.034
<v Speaker 1>put it on before and it just is like, yeah,

0:44:09.114 --> 0:44:11.034
<v Speaker 1>it like sucks it all up and feels like your

0:44:11.074 --> 0:44:13.074
<v Speaker 1>skin is nice and juicy.

0:44:13.274 --> 0:44:14.554
<v Speaker 3>Oh I need that, okay.

0:44:14.714 --> 0:44:17.194
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I just you know, Amelia Love is a

0:44:17.234 --> 0:44:19.754
<v Speaker 1>K beauty thing, and everyone tells you how good K

0:44:19.914 --> 0:44:22.433
<v Speaker 1>beauty is, and it is so cheap in comparison to

0:44:22.474 --> 0:44:25.913
<v Speaker 1>these like ninety dollars serums. So yeah, I just love it,

0:44:26.114 --> 0:44:28.234
<v Speaker 1>So try that. What's yours months.

0:44:28.274 --> 0:44:30.674
<v Speaker 2>I'm always like hyper aware of how smug I sound

0:44:30.674 --> 0:44:32.594
<v Speaker 2>in these recommendations, and I listen back to this show

0:44:32.634 --> 0:44:34.194
<v Speaker 2>and I want to slap myself in the face. I'm like,

0:44:34.274 --> 0:44:36.513
<v Speaker 2>shut up, you think you're so good as a mum,

0:44:36.554 --> 0:44:38.634
<v Speaker 2>and so pre warning, this is another one of those

0:44:38.674 --> 0:44:41.234
<v Speaker 2>recommendations where you're gonna hate me for it. But also

0:44:41.474 --> 0:44:43.274
<v Speaker 2>some people might be like, Okay, I'll give it a go.

0:44:43.954 --> 0:44:46.954
<v Speaker 2>I'm a bit psycho about screen time for my kids,

0:44:47.314 --> 0:44:50.393
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm always like, this is rotting your brains, and

0:44:50.474 --> 0:44:53.514
<v Speaker 2>yet I am also like, luody, dad da, here's my

0:44:53.554 --> 0:44:57.314
<v Speaker 2>fourteen hours on my iPhone. So I bought a phone

0:44:57.394 --> 0:45:00.874
<v Speaker 2>lock box. It's a wooden container. I got it off Amazon.

0:45:01.594 --> 0:45:04.674
<v Speaker 2>It's got a timer on it. It's a safe for

0:45:04.754 --> 0:45:06.354
<v Speaker 2>your phone. You have to put your phone in and

0:45:06.394 --> 0:45:08.154
<v Speaker 2>set the tim out, and once it's a lot, you

0:45:08.194 --> 0:45:09.594
<v Speaker 2>cannot get your phone out.

0:45:09.594 --> 0:45:11.834
<v Speaker 1>So you can't get it out no matter what, like

0:45:11.914 --> 0:45:13.314
<v Speaker 1>unless break.

0:45:13.354 --> 0:45:16.393
<v Speaker 2>Okay, if you're desperate, you have to log in to

0:45:16.554 --> 0:45:18.914
<v Speaker 2>the internet and it gives you some it sends a

0:45:18.954 --> 0:45:21.393
<v Speaker 2>code to your email, like if you're that desperate, but

0:45:21.434 --> 0:45:22.834
<v Speaker 2>they haven't been yet.

0:45:22.994 --> 0:45:26.314
<v Speaker 3>They know humans so well that they know you're too

0:45:26.394 --> 0:45:30.154
<v Speaker 3>lazy to do that, and that really shows you the extent,

0:45:31.274 --> 0:45:34.154
<v Speaker 3>like you'd know you had a real problem with addiction

0:45:34.754 --> 0:45:38.074
<v Speaker 3>if you did that. Yeah, so I've also got one

0:45:38.074 --> 0:45:42.033
<v Speaker 3>of those safe and yeah, no, it changes your life.

0:45:42.194 --> 0:45:45.114
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's because I am addicted to my phone.

0:45:45.154 --> 0:45:47.513
<v Speaker 2>It was it's getting gross. One of the kids was like, yeah,

0:45:47.674 --> 0:45:49.474
<v Speaker 2>he's on your phone. I was like, right, okay, if

0:45:49.474 --> 0:45:52.034
<v Speaker 2>they're noticing it, I better. I have no willpower. I

0:45:52.074 --> 0:45:54.074
<v Speaker 2>need something else that will do it for me. So

0:45:55.194 --> 0:45:58.034
<v Speaker 2>it's been hard, but I'm doing it all week nights

0:45:58.554 --> 0:46:00.794
<v Speaker 2>and then on Saturday night, that's my night off my

0:46:00.874 --> 0:46:03.314
<v Speaker 2>lock box. I have my sacred ritual where I get

0:46:03.354 --> 0:46:06.514
<v Speaker 2>into bed with like the Audi choker chocolate like it

0:46:06.634 --> 0:46:09.913
<v Speaker 2>is so good if you need and then I get

0:46:09.954 --> 0:46:12.314
<v Speaker 2>my phone out like a greedy little pig, and I

0:46:12.434 --> 0:46:15.634
<v Speaker 2>just like I inhale like a hundred memes and I

0:46:15.674 --> 0:46:17.234
<v Speaker 2>laughed my head off and I send them to all

0:46:17.234 --> 0:46:19.114
<v Speaker 2>my friends and then I know that's my hit for

0:46:19.154 --> 0:46:19.794
<v Speaker 2>the week.

0:46:19.594 --> 0:46:21.354
<v Speaker 1>And then I just put it back in the box.

0:46:21.674 --> 0:46:24.274
<v Speaker 1>How long is it in this box? Yeah? Every evening?

0:46:24.314 --> 0:46:25.674
<v Speaker 1>Like are you putting it in there? And it's out

0:46:25.714 --> 0:46:27.314
<v Speaker 1>for the night until the next day.

0:46:28.034 --> 0:46:29.433
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's right.

0:46:29.434 --> 0:46:31.394
<v Speaker 1>I oh, no, I know I couldn't.

0:46:31.394 --> 0:46:34.994
<v Speaker 2>I'm going like seven thirty pm until five am.

0:46:35.314 --> 0:46:36.393
<v Speaker 3>Oh I know better than me.

0:46:36.634 --> 0:46:37.554
<v Speaker 2>Have I gone too hard?

0:46:37.834 --> 0:46:39.154
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:46:39.234 --> 0:46:42.234
<v Speaker 1>That sounds that sounds correct. I use my job here

0:46:42.274 --> 0:46:44.634
<v Speaker 1>as an excuse not to do that because things often

0:46:44.674 --> 0:46:47.274
<v Speaker 1>happen late at night as I'm sitting there about an

0:46:47.274 --> 0:46:50.754
<v Speaker 1>hour into TikTok scrolls for this job. I'm doing it

0:46:50.834 --> 0:46:51.634
<v Speaker 1>for you, I know.

0:46:51.794 --> 0:46:56.553
<v Speaker 3>But it's a trap. But it's a trap of the time.

0:46:56.594 --> 0:46:59.354
<v Speaker 3>It's it's yeah, that's right.

0:47:01.194 --> 0:47:04.194
<v Speaker 2>Look, I'm not better than you. I'm just trying something. Okay,

0:47:04.234 --> 0:47:06.514
<v Speaker 2>it's not going well.

0:47:05.754 --> 0:47:08.154
<v Speaker 1>Give it another way, idea. I need to try it.

0:47:08.274 --> 0:47:09.314
<v Speaker 1>I need to do it. Okay.

0:47:09.474 --> 0:47:11.754
<v Speaker 2>Hey, that's it for the week in parenting culture. Thanks

0:47:11.754 --> 0:47:13.514
<v Speaker 2>for joining us, Thanks for clicking on this on a

0:47:13.554 --> 0:47:15.834
<v Speaker 2>Saturday morning. Great to have you with us, Claire, thanks

0:47:15.874 --> 0:47:17.554
<v Speaker 2>for jumping in familiar.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for having me guys, Thank.

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<v Speaker 2>You all right, and a huge thanks to our team

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<v Speaker 2>that puts this show together. Have a great week. We'll

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<v Speaker 2>be back next Saturday morning. Bye bye, Mamma Mere acknowledges

0:47:33.554 --> 0:47:35.474
<v Speaker 2>the traditional owners of the land on which we have

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<v Speaker 2>recorded this podcast.