1
00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:10,914
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.

2
00:00:20,994 --> 00:00:23,994
Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud. This is the podcast where

3
00:00:23,994 --> 00:00:25,874
Speaker 2: we don't actually tell you how to parent. We figure

4
00:00:25,914 --> 00:00:29,914
Speaker 2: that there's probably enough places that do that. We instead

5
00:00:30,114 --> 00:00:33,434
Speaker 2: talk about parenting in the culture. We read all the

6
00:00:33,473 --> 00:00:36,273
Speaker 2: parenting news and the trends and the advice and the

7
00:00:36,314 --> 00:00:38,554
Speaker 2: things that happen on the internet so that you don't

8
00:00:38,594 --> 00:00:41,033
Speaker 2: have to and then we bring it to you on

9
00:00:41,074 --> 00:00:43,833
Speaker 2: a platter and try and make sense of it. So

10
00:00:43,954 --> 00:00:48,034
Speaker 2: Welcome parents, Welcome friends, Welcome parents and friends. Committee to

11
00:00:48,114 --> 00:00:48,874
Speaker 2: Parenting out Loud.

12
00:00:48,873 --> 00:00:53,634
Speaker 3: I'm Monice Bowley, I'm Claire Stevens filling in for Emelia Lester.

13
00:00:53,634 --> 00:00:55,794
Speaker 1: And I'm Stacy Hicks. Hi Claire.

14
00:00:56,114 --> 00:00:59,114
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, nice to have you. Claire, I'm so excited

15
00:00:59,114 --> 00:01:01,434
Speaker 3: to be here. I love just banging down the door

16
00:01:01,474 --> 00:01:04,473
Speaker 3: and getting out loud. It's so fun.

17
00:01:04,634 --> 00:01:06,514
Speaker 1: Is this because you're pregnant so you just want to

18
00:01:06,554 --> 00:01:09,634
Speaker 1: be here to use us for any of your questions.

19
00:01:09,714 --> 00:01:12,474
Speaker 3: And I'm like, guys, like, when I'm doing out Loud,

20
00:01:12,634 --> 00:01:16,194
Speaker 3: I'm like, if I'm honest, all I'm really thinking about

21
00:01:16,554 --> 00:01:21,074
Speaker 3: is my toddler, Like twenty fours, which is an interesting

22
00:01:21,154 --> 00:01:22,434
Speaker 3: to everyone.

23
00:01:23,354 --> 00:01:26,074
Speaker 2: It is to us, come and nest with us. We're

24
00:01:26,154 --> 00:01:28,754
Speaker 2: very welcome here. How many weeks pragante are you?

25
00:01:29,314 --> 00:01:34,394
Speaker 3: I'm twenty four weeks, which it's not far enough along

26
00:01:34,754 --> 00:01:38,554
Speaker 3: for my liking, but it is over halfway. But I

27
00:01:38,594 --> 00:01:41,394
Speaker 3: remember from last time, between twenty and thirty weeks is

28
00:01:41,434 --> 00:01:44,434
Speaker 3: a it's a long road. It goes on forever, and

29
00:01:44,474 --> 00:01:47,394
Speaker 3: then after thirty weeks you're a little bit. Things are

30
00:01:47,434 --> 00:01:49,674
Speaker 3: so dire that time speeds up a little bit.

31
00:01:49,754 --> 00:01:51,794
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, welcome, so good to have you all right?

32
00:01:51,794 --> 00:01:53,514
Speaker 2: Coming up on today's show, what are you bringing us?

33
00:01:53,514 --> 00:01:53,794
Speaker 1: Claire?

34
00:01:54,074 --> 00:01:58,074
Speaker 3: Has anyone ever called your kid bad? The reframe we

35
00:01:58,154 --> 00:01:59,074
Speaker 3: need is here.

36
00:01:59,434 --> 00:02:02,474
Speaker 1: And the sibling effect trend is the trend that I

37
00:02:02,514 --> 00:02:04,914
Speaker 1: would like to go away forever. Please, I will tell

38
00:02:04,914 --> 00:02:05,394
Speaker 1: you why.

39
00:02:05,674 --> 00:02:08,114
Speaker 2: And an eleven year old just a pretty hard life

40
00:02:08,194 --> 00:02:11,594
Speaker 2: lesson from a celebrity. I want to talk about how

41
00:02:11,633 --> 00:02:15,194
Speaker 2: do you prepare kids for when life and people suck?

42
00:02:15,954 --> 00:02:19,554
Speaker 2: But first, the biggest video in my feed this week

43
00:02:20,034 --> 00:02:22,954
Speaker 2: was a basketball coach screaming in her player's face. Have

44
00:02:23,034 --> 00:02:23,834
Speaker 2: you guys seen this?

45
00:02:24,714 --> 00:02:27,594
Speaker 3: I've seen, yes, I've seen some of it. I haven't

46
00:02:27,634 --> 00:02:30,234
Speaker 3: seen all of the context around it, so I need

47
00:02:30,234 --> 00:02:31,274
Speaker 3: you to explain.

48
00:02:31,194 --> 00:02:34,194
Speaker 1: Yes, it is everywhere, right, Like I watched this on

49
00:02:34,234 --> 00:02:36,754
Speaker 1: a loop. When you send this to me, I know

50
00:02:36,874 --> 00:02:37,594
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop.

51
00:02:37,634 --> 00:02:39,874
Speaker 2: It had thirty million views. I think twenty nine million

52
00:02:39,874 --> 00:02:43,834
Speaker 2: on mine. It was at a college basketball game in America.

53
00:02:43,914 --> 00:02:48,794
Speaker 2: So Maryland college basketball coach Brenda Freeze mid game. This

54
00:02:48,834 --> 00:02:52,354
Speaker 2: is an NCAA game, college basketball game, lots of pressure.

55
00:02:53,154 --> 00:02:57,954
Speaker 2: She gets her star player, Aluchi Okanawa, and she serves

56
00:02:58,034 --> 00:03:02,314
Speaker 2: up what looks like this massive spray, like she's right

57
00:03:02,354 --> 00:03:05,354
Speaker 2: in her face, she's locking eyes with her and she

58
00:03:05,634 --> 00:03:09,074
Speaker 2: is just screaming. And what she says is so I

59
00:03:09,154 --> 00:03:11,074
Speaker 2: was like, right, I need someone to lip read this

60
00:03:11,154 --> 00:03:13,954
Speaker 2: for me. What is this? Because it looks really intense

61
00:03:13,954 --> 00:03:17,754
Speaker 2: and aggressive. What she says is, I need you to

62
00:03:17,834 --> 00:03:21,834
Speaker 2: lock in stop being distracted. I believe in you, but

63
00:03:21,874 --> 00:03:23,354
Speaker 2: you've got to want this moment.

64
00:03:23,594 --> 00:03:25,594
Speaker 1: This isn't my story or right.

65
00:03:27,154 --> 00:03:28,314
Speaker 3: Right an American accent.

66
00:03:28,594 --> 00:03:35,354
Speaker 2: I just gave myself goosebumps. So people saw this and

67
00:03:35,474 --> 00:03:39,914
Speaker 2: immediately split into two camps, which one was I would

68
00:03:40,034 --> 00:03:42,754
Speaker 2: run through a brick wall after this for this coach.

69
00:03:43,554 --> 00:03:46,634
Speaker 2: The other camp was, you cannot speak to people like that,

70
00:03:47,474 --> 00:03:49,194
Speaker 2: but I wanted to talk about it with you both

71
00:03:49,194 --> 00:03:52,514
Speaker 2: today because I loved it for two reasons. Number one

72
00:03:52,834 --> 00:03:55,674
Speaker 2: is that in a world where you're told always to

73
00:03:55,794 --> 00:03:58,634
Speaker 2: parent in a gentle way, in a very encouraging way,

74
00:03:58,674 --> 00:04:01,874
Speaker 2: in a loving way, to see a moment where someone

75
00:04:01,954 --> 00:04:05,874
Speaker 2: is being pushed hard like this, I was like, holy shit.

76
00:04:06,034 --> 00:04:07,674
Speaker 2: I think that's why I went back and watched it

77
00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:10,754
Speaker 2: again and again, because it's not something we see that much.

78
00:04:11,274 --> 00:04:13,674
Speaker 2: And the second reason I loved it was for what

79
00:04:13,834 --> 00:04:18,553
Speaker 2: the player said afterwards. So in the presser, Okanawa said, this.

80
00:04:19,034 --> 00:04:23,433
Speaker 4: Coach understands I'm a competitor at heart, and I love

81
00:04:23,513 --> 00:04:25,393
Speaker 4: to be coach, and that's what she does with me

82
00:04:25,873 --> 00:04:29,273
Speaker 4: every single day. And really what that was was a

83
00:04:29,313 --> 00:04:32,273
Speaker 4: regroup moment for myself and her telling me she believed

84
00:04:32,313 --> 00:04:35,394
Speaker 4: in me, because sometimes that's really all you need to hear.

85
00:04:35,914 --> 00:04:38,794
Speaker 2: I'm so obsessed with this. I think the reason I'm

86
00:04:38,834 --> 00:04:42,234
Speaker 2: so obsessed is because I feel like the dominant narrative

87
00:04:42,234 --> 00:04:45,153
Speaker 2: with kids these days. And look, Akanawa is twenty two.

88
00:04:45,234 --> 00:04:49,113
Speaker 2: She's not a kid, but she's Gen Z and every

89
00:04:49,154 --> 00:04:52,674
Speaker 2: criticism of Gen Z's and Gen Alpha's and every generation

90
00:04:52,753 --> 00:04:56,153
Speaker 2: after millennials is that they're soft, they can't take feedback,

91
00:04:56,313 --> 00:05:00,914
Speaker 2: they're fragile, they've been overparented, and this is just not that.

92
00:05:01,154 --> 00:05:02,954
Speaker 2: And I just loved what the coach did and I

93
00:05:02,993 --> 00:05:04,674
Speaker 2: loved what she did, and I love it all.

94
00:05:05,834 --> 00:05:08,593
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really I found it confronting when I

95
00:05:08,594 --> 00:05:10,914
Speaker 1: watched it for the first time. I was like, I

96
00:05:10,914 --> 00:05:12,873
Speaker 1: would want to kill that woman if she was speaking

97
00:05:12,873 --> 00:05:15,753
Speaker 1: to my kid that way. Like, but and you know,

98
00:05:16,073 --> 00:05:19,353
Speaker 1: famously I'm terrible at sport. I could not be yelled

99
00:05:19,354 --> 00:05:20,953
Speaker 1: at like that and then get out there and do

100
00:05:21,154 --> 00:05:22,953
Speaker 1: a great performance. I would just want to be told

101
00:05:22,953 --> 00:05:25,873
Speaker 1: I'm wonderful and that everything I'm doing is great. But

102
00:05:25,953 --> 00:05:28,354
Speaker 1: I think that's the distinction is she's not getting yelled at.

103
00:05:28,393 --> 00:05:31,674
Speaker 1: It's motivational, and it's like sometimes it does need to

104
00:05:31,674 --> 00:05:34,754
Speaker 1: be a bit more aggressive, Like we're so used to

105
00:05:34,794 --> 00:05:38,754
Speaker 1: speaking to everyone in a gentle, calm voice and sometimes

106
00:05:39,193 --> 00:05:41,713
Speaker 1: just a bit of like up in your grill motivational

107
00:05:41,753 --> 00:05:43,273
Speaker 1: words would actually do the trick.

108
00:05:43,794 --> 00:05:46,553
Speaker 3: I love that it's two women, like because I feel

109
00:05:46,553 --> 00:05:50,314
Speaker 3: like you do see this, Like even from watching some

110
00:05:50,354 --> 00:05:53,593
Speaker 3: of the F one stuff, you kind of sometimes you

111
00:05:53,594 --> 00:05:56,034
Speaker 3: can see men really get into this with each other,

112
00:05:56,113 --> 00:05:58,954
Speaker 3: and that there's no you know that, it's not you know,

113
00:05:59,113 --> 00:06:03,313
Speaker 3: anybody attacking each other. It's about really seizing the moment

114
00:06:03,354 --> 00:06:05,313
Speaker 3: and this is the one opportunity and so you've got.

115
00:06:05,193 --> 00:06:05,594
Speaker 1: To do it.

116
00:06:06,113 --> 00:06:10,153
Speaker 3: And I love seeing two women do that and the

117
00:06:10,193 --> 00:06:16,794
Speaker 3: fact that it's not it's not anger, it's not I'm this.

118
00:06:17,234 --> 00:06:20,794
Speaker 3: I'm a very sensitive person, and I know that there

119
00:06:20,794 --> 00:06:22,674
Speaker 3: are certain points in my life where I would not

120
00:06:22,794 --> 00:06:26,993
Speaker 3: have been able to take that, yeah, corner in the corner.

121
00:06:27,393 --> 00:06:30,513
Speaker 3: But then I think about it and I think, if

122
00:06:30,553 --> 00:06:34,354
Speaker 3: somebody would have believe in me that much, that means

123
00:06:34,393 --> 00:06:38,514
Speaker 3: a lot, and that is often a sign post of

124
00:06:39,474 --> 00:06:41,753
Speaker 3: your potential, and that's really exciting.

125
00:06:42,433 --> 00:06:42,873
Speaker 1: Yeah.

126
00:06:43,073 --> 00:06:45,794
Speaker 2: I think Maggie Dent always talks about lighthouse figures right

127
00:06:45,834 --> 00:06:47,993
Speaker 2: where you have in your life, you have your parents,

128
00:06:47,993 --> 00:06:50,474
Speaker 2: and then you also need a range of lighthouse figures

129
00:06:50,474 --> 00:06:54,234
Speaker 2: around you that can kind of believe in you. And

130
00:06:54,513 --> 00:06:56,674
Speaker 2: that was just such a great example of that.

131
00:06:57,234 --> 00:07:00,474
Speaker 3: In case you missed it, actress Viola Davis, who you'd

132
00:07:00,474 --> 00:07:02,914
Speaker 3: probably know from her roles in The Help and How

133
00:07:02,914 --> 00:07:05,313
Speaker 3: to Get Away with Murder and Doubt and a million

134
00:07:05,354 --> 00:07:09,514
Speaker 3: other things, was recently again on Amy Pola's podcast Good Hang,

135
00:07:10,074 --> 00:07:13,074
Speaker 3: and there's a viral clip from the show where Viola

136
00:07:13,194 --> 00:07:16,074
Speaker 3: Davis says she loves a bad kid.

137
00:07:16,434 --> 00:07:18,593
Speaker 5: I love a bad kid, like a two year old

138
00:07:18,634 --> 00:07:21,314
Speaker 5: bad kid, someone who comes, you know. I had a

139
00:07:21,354 --> 00:07:23,913
Speaker 5: little bad kid at my wedded who stuck his whole

140
00:07:23,953 --> 00:07:24,914
Speaker 5: finger in my cake.

141
00:07:25,154 --> 00:07:25,274
Speaker 1: Oh.

142
00:07:25,314 --> 00:07:26,994
Speaker 5: I thought it was the best thing in the world.

143
00:07:27,034 --> 00:07:29,473
Speaker 5: So I love a bad kid. Listen, the world is

144
00:07:29,514 --> 00:07:31,473
Speaker 5: going to get at you. It's going to kick your ass,

145
00:07:31,674 --> 00:07:35,273
Speaker 5: just leave you in the dumpster. So it's really great

146
00:07:35,354 --> 00:07:37,273
Speaker 5: when you go out in the world and you have

147
00:07:37,514 --> 00:07:41,074
Speaker 5: the hootspu. Yes you have that self possession right, Yes,

148
00:07:41,114 --> 00:07:42,634
Speaker 5: that's what I want with my kid.

149
00:07:42,834 --> 00:07:46,274
Speaker 3: I was completely obsessed with this take because I think

150
00:07:46,274 --> 00:07:50,754
Speaker 3: it points to a few things one Viola Davis like,

151
00:07:50,794 --> 00:07:54,434
Speaker 3: I think she didn't even realize how powerful what she

152
00:07:54,634 --> 00:07:58,554
Speaker 3: was saying was, because it was really about tolerance and

153
00:07:58,714 --> 00:08:02,953
Speaker 3: the importance of our attitude towards kids in public, Like

154
00:08:03,074 --> 00:08:06,953
Speaker 3: kids are going to do inconvenient things, and we should

155
00:08:06,994 --> 00:08:11,874
Speaker 3: be a whole lot more tolerant and understanding. I often

156
00:08:11,953 --> 00:08:16,434
Speaker 3: think that when kids are acting up or there's often

157
00:08:16,474 --> 00:08:20,554
Speaker 3: there's discussions about, you know, how empathetic or how patient

158
00:08:20,554 --> 00:08:22,514
Speaker 3: you should be with somebody else's kids. It's not even

159
00:08:22,554 --> 00:08:27,274
Speaker 3: about whether you have kids, whether there are kids in

160
00:08:27,314 --> 00:08:30,354
Speaker 3: your life. It's that we were all kids once, and

161
00:08:30,393 --> 00:08:33,554
Speaker 3: we were all that kid and the fact that the

162
00:08:33,554 --> 00:08:38,194
Speaker 3: world isn't built for kids makes us less patient and

163
00:08:38,314 --> 00:08:41,754
Speaker 3: less accepting and more willing to jump down their throats

164
00:08:41,754 --> 00:08:44,114
Speaker 3: when they do something like that. So if I had

165
00:08:44,154 --> 00:08:46,914
Speaker 3: in my head walking around that there are people like

166
00:08:46,994 --> 00:08:49,594
Speaker 3: Viola Davis who says, I love that that kid has

167
00:08:49,674 --> 00:08:52,714
Speaker 3: just funny vibes, then it would make me feel a

168
00:08:52,714 --> 00:08:56,274
Speaker 3: lot more safe as a parent. The other thing I

169
00:08:56,314 --> 00:08:58,874
Speaker 3: took away from it is that the kid who does

170
00:08:58,954 --> 00:09:03,874
Speaker 3: that is not a bad kid, especially at two, like

171
00:09:04,034 --> 00:09:08,434
Speaker 3: in Viola Davis's example, you look at a kid like

172
00:09:08,434 --> 00:09:11,594
Speaker 3: that and you go, it's not that you're bad. And

173
00:09:11,594 --> 00:09:14,514
Speaker 3: this is what clinical psychologist doctor Becky said when she

174
00:09:14,714 --> 00:09:18,434
Speaker 3: stitched that on TikTok. She said, there are no bad kids.

175
00:09:18,874 --> 00:09:21,994
Speaker 3: You can have a good kid who's impulsive and a

176
00:09:22,034 --> 00:09:27,434
Speaker 3: good kid who needs boundaries. And I absolutely love that reframing.

177
00:09:28,394 --> 00:09:30,634
Speaker 3: And it's just I look at my two year old

178
00:09:30,634 --> 00:09:34,474
Speaker 3: and I think you don't have the cognitive ability to

179
00:09:34,554 --> 00:09:37,594
Speaker 3: be bad, even if you wanted to everything you do

180
00:09:37,794 --> 00:09:40,114
Speaker 3: is because you have no skills.

181
00:09:40,234 --> 00:09:42,194
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if he doesn't want to stick their

182
00:09:42,234 --> 00:09:45,594
Speaker 1: finger in a cake, you know, it is an intrusive thought.

183
00:09:45,674 --> 00:09:48,354
Speaker 1: It's just that kids let that win. And I loved

184
00:09:48,394 --> 00:09:50,874
Speaker 1: that this was rebranded as you know, we just need

185
00:09:50,914 --> 00:09:53,914
Speaker 1: to see that as entertaining, not as misbehavior. It's the

186
00:09:53,914 --> 00:09:56,114
Speaker 1: same as kind of when they swear you can either

187
00:09:56,154 --> 00:09:58,754
Speaker 1: be aghast at this or you can just go it's

188
00:09:58,754 --> 00:10:00,714
Speaker 1: pretty funny, especially when it's not your own kid.

189
00:10:01,034 --> 00:10:03,794
Speaker 3: And it's very true that it's self fulfilling, like I

190
00:10:03,834 --> 00:10:07,834
Speaker 3: can see if you looked at your kid doing I

191
00:10:07,994 --> 00:10:11,434
Speaker 3: was out in public yesterday, and if anybody saw me

192
00:10:11,514 --> 00:10:13,714
Speaker 3: out in public, they would have thought she's got a

193
00:10:13,714 --> 00:10:17,394
Speaker 3: bad kid. Because Matilda, in her defense, she is sick.

194
00:10:17,434 --> 00:10:20,274
Speaker 3: She's going through a lot, and she was just running

195
00:10:20,274 --> 00:10:24,194
Speaker 3: through Woolworths, refusing to get in her pram and like

196
00:10:24,554 --> 00:10:29,074
Speaker 3: screaming absolute tantrum and grabbing things off the shelves. It

197
00:10:29,114 --> 00:10:32,834
Speaker 3: was just a nightmare. But in my head, and even

198
00:10:32,834 --> 00:10:36,394
Speaker 3: in that situation, I don't really react to it because

199
00:10:36,474 --> 00:10:39,794
Speaker 3: as a parent, you've got so much empathy for what

200
00:10:39,834 --> 00:10:42,754
Speaker 3: your kid is going through and that she generally is

201
00:10:42,794 --> 00:10:46,034
Speaker 3: incredibly well behaved, and it was just one of those days.

202
00:10:46,874 --> 00:10:49,994
Speaker 3: But I do like the thought. And sometimes it can

203
00:10:50,034 --> 00:10:52,034
Speaker 3: just be like a little smile from somebody that you

204
00:10:52,114 --> 00:10:55,674
Speaker 3: pass or Matilda was then crying in her pram and

205
00:10:55,714 --> 00:10:57,554
Speaker 3: a man in front of us just kept kind of

206
00:10:57,554 --> 00:11:00,954
Speaker 3: pulling funny faces, and I thought, God, that just makes

207
00:11:01,034 --> 00:11:03,234
Speaker 3: you feel so much better as a parent that people

208
00:11:03,314 --> 00:11:07,114
Speaker 3: respect that your kid is worthy of dignity and respec

209
00:11:07,434 --> 00:11:10,074
Speaker 3: It's just that they're going through some things today.

210
00:11:11,234 --> 00:11:14,074
Speaker 2: So I don't disagree, Like I agree with everything you're saying.

211
00:11:14,114 --> 00:11:16,874
Speaker 2: Adults probably need to be more tolerant. This is often

212
00:11:16,954 --> 00:11:20,074
Speaker 2: like developmentally appropriate for their age. But what if the

213
00:11:20,114 --> 00:11:22,714
Speaker 2: person sticking their hand in the cake is a five

214
00:11:22,794 --> 00:11:26,594
Speaker 2: year old or a seven year old? Does that change it? Like,

215
00:11:26,634 --> 00:11:29,194
Speaker 2: I think we have a lot of tolerance for toddlers

216
00:11:29,234 --> 00:11:32,034
Speaker 2: because they're still learning their way through the world, they're

217
00:11:32,034 --> 00:11:33,634
Speaker 2: having a lot of big feelings, But what if it's

218
00:11:33,634 --> 00:11:35,594
Speaker 2: an older kid, Like, where do you draw the line?

219
00:11:35,834 --> 00:11:40,634
Speaker 3: I know, And the tricky thing is you don't know

220
00:11:42,394 --> 00:11:47,914
Speaker 3: where they're at developmentally behavior wise, what kind of challenges

221
00:11:48,074 --> 00:11:50,594
Speaker 3: they might be having. You can't tell all of that

222
00:11:50,754 --> 00:11:54,554
Speaker 3: from the outside, but at the same time, yeah, it

223
00:11:54,554 --> 00:11:58,154
Speaker 3: would be disingenuous to pretend that we're not sometimes very

224
00:11:58,194 --> 00:12:01,874
Speaker 3: frustrated by kids in public, and that if a kid

225
00:12:01,954 --> 00:12:04,994
Speaker 3: comes up to my kid in the playground and hits

226
00:12:04,994 --> 00:12:08,074
Speaker 3: her because he wants to use the and he's seven,

227
00:12:08,274 --> 00:12:11,914
Speaker 3: I'm like, well that was that? Yeah, yeah, but I yeah,

228
00:12:12,074 --> 00:12:17,874
Speaker 3: I agree, Like it's a it's kind of a vague

229
00:12:17,954 --> 00:12:20,394
Speaker 3: line of where you draw that based on what you

230
00:12:20,394 --> 00:12:21,514
Speaker 3: can see from the outside.

231
00:12:21,794 --> 00:12:26,194
Speaker 2: There are also social norms, right, Like, you can't you

232
00:12:26,234 --> 00:12:27,754
Speaker 2: can't have kids that just do whatever they want for

233
00:12:27,754 --> 00:12:28,994
Speaker 2: the rest of their life, because what are they going

234
00:12:29,074 --> 00:12:30,434
Speaker 2: to be like when they're in the workplace? What are

235
00:12:30,434 --> 00:12:32,834
Speaker 2: they going to be like in social situations? Like I

236
00:12:32,874 --> 00:12:35,514
Speaker 2: think the principle of the idea is really great, but

237
00:12:35,754 --> 00:12:39,953
Speaker 2: in practice, I think there's a line of like, well, actually,

238
00:12:39,994 --> 00:12:40,994
Speaker 2: that's just bad manners.

239
00:12:41,034 --> 00:12:44,794
Speaker 1: But maybe this isn't about not stopping the behavior. You

240
00:12:44,834 --> 00:12:47,714
Speaker 1: absolutely should stop the behavior, but it's kind of about

241
00:12:47,754 --> 00:12:49,754
Speaker 1: embracing it for what it is at the time, which

242
00:12:49,794 --> 00:12:51,914
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, he shouldn't have stuck his finger in

243
00:12:51,954 --> 00:12:54,274
Speaker 1: the cake, but it's kind of funny that he did,

244
00:12:54,394 --> 00:12:56,634
Speaker 1: and we can just kind of laugh about that, especially

245
00:12:56,634 --> 00:12:58,674
Speaker 1: when it's not your own kid doing it, it is

246
00:12:58,714 --> 00:12:59,833
Speaker 1: even funnier.

247
00:12:59,834 --> 00:13:03,514
Speaker 3: And maybe also being sensitive to those situations that aren't

248
00:13:04,074 --> 00:13:07,394
Speaker 3: kid friendly to begin with, Like, yeah, you think about

249
00:13:07,394 --> 00:13:11,554
Speaker 3: a wedding, and this is why I'm all for child

250
00:13:11,554 --> 00:13:14,594
Speaker 3: free weddings, because what's a kid gonna do at a wedding?

251
00:13:14,594 --> 00:13:17,754
Speaker 3: They're gonna stick a finger in the cave. Like kids

252
00:13:18,034 --> 00:13:21,034
Speaker 3: behave a lot better in situations that are actually designed

253
00:13:21,074 --> 00:13:24,154
Speaker 3: for them, as opposed to like sit down at this

254
00:13:24,234 --> 00:13:26,833
Speaker 3: fancy restaurant and don't disturb anyone. Well, they're going to

255
00:13:26,874 --> 00:13:28,394
Speaker 3: do something stupid because they're a child.

256
00:13:29,594 --> 00:13:31,914
Speaker 2: I need to relax my noose. By the sounds of it,

257
00:13:31,954 --> 00:13:33,674
Speaker 2: I'm like the stern mother.

258
00:13:35,994 --> 00:13:36,914
Speaker 3: You're so right.

259
00:13:37,594 --> 00:13:41,194
Speaker 2: You might have seen a prickly little celebrity story around

260
00:13:41,234 --> 00:13:43,434
Speaker 2: the chaps this week, and I want to talk about it.

261
00:13:43,514 --> 00:13:45,634
Speaker 2: I know they talked about it on Mamma Mia out

262
00:13:45,674 --> 00:13:49,034
Speaker 2: Loud this earlier this week, but we're sitting at the

263
00:13:49,034 --> 00:13:53,154
Speaker 2: parents table here and I think there's more to unpack.

264
00:13:53,994 --> 00:13:56,914
Speaker 2: It was when an eleven year old encountered a celebrity,

265
00:13:57,314 --> 00:14:00,234
Speaker 2: and that celeb was Chapel Roan. Is that right?

266
00:14:00,554 --> 00:14:04,394
Speaker 1: High saying i did it right. Has been calling her Chappelle,

267
00:14:04,474 --> 00:14:10,874
Speaker 1: bro Chapelle, every different variation, but you nailed it on,

268
00:14:11,554 --> 00:14:12,074
Speaker 1: thank you.

269
00:14:12,634 --> 00:14:15,154
Speaker 2: So she's huge right now to everyone except for me,

270
00:14:15,674 --> 00:14:18,554
Speaker 2: very adored. She's staying in a hotel right This eleven

271
00:14:18,634 --> 00:14:21,794
Speaker 2: year old spots her at breakfast, and yet's excited, because

272
00:14:21,794 --> 00:14:23,114
Speaker 2: what do you do when you're eleven and you see

273
00:14:23,154 --> 00:14:27,434
Speaker 2: a celebrity, You do get excited. But the eleven year old.

274
00:14:27,034 --> 00:14:29,594
Speaker 1: Even when you're not eleven. I'm sorry. If I saw

275
00:14:29,874 --> 00:14:32,594
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and I was at breakfast, I would absolutely do.

276
00:14:32,594 --> 00:14:34,954
Speaker 3: A little drive par nosy. I can't help you.

277
00:14:35,074 --> 00:14:38,554
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was no approach, there was no

278
00:14:38,634 --> 00:14:41,754
Speaker 2: autograph or selfie moment. It's this was very much just

279
00:14:42,234 --> 00:14:45,474
Speaker 2: admire from a distance, walk past the table. Yep, it's her.

280
00:14:45,554 --> 00:14:47,394
Speaker 2: How exciting. Let's get back to our breakfast.

281
00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:47,994
Speaker 1: Now.

282
00:14:47,994 --> 00:14:51,914
Speaker 2: What happens next is that security steps in and essentially

283
00:14:51,954 --> 00:14:56,274
Speaker 2: tells this kid off and threatens them and allegedly harasses them.

284
00:14:56,994 --> 00:14:59,114
Speaker 2: Now it happens that the eleven year old is the

285
00:14:59,154 --> 00:15:03,554
Speaker 2: step daughter of a very famous soccer player. It's also

286
00:15:03,594 --> 00:15:07,114
Speaker 2: the daughter of Judelaw, a very famous celebrity. Her step

287
00:15:07,274 --> 00:15:12,514
Speaker 2: father Georginiao has four point nine million Instagram followers. He

288
00:15:12,594 --> 00:15:15,114
Speaker 2: is not happy at this point. He's eleven year old

289
00:15:15,194 --> 00:15:20,474
Speaker 2: stepdaughter has been harassed security guard, and so he wrote

290
00:15:20,594 --> 00:15:25,674
Speaker 2: on his Instagram this takedown of Chappelle, Chapel and Chapel

291
00:15:26,354 --> 00:15:29,794
Speaker 2: saying without your fans, you would be nothing and to

292
00:15:29,874 --> 00:15:33,474
Speaker 2: the fans, she does not deserve your attention. FYI. For

293
00:15:33,554 --> 00:15:36,554
Speaker 2: the record, Chapel said she didn't do it and she

294
00:15:36,634 --> 00:15:40,514
Speaker 2: doesn't hate kids. I think the reason this has gone

295
00:15:40,594 --> 00:15:43,434
Speaker 2: wild is because it's eleven year old girl at the

296
00:15:43,434 --> 00:15:47,274
Speaker 2: center of it, right, And at eleven years old, you're

297
00:15:47,314 --> 00:15:51,554
Speaker 2: still in that place where adults smile at you and

298
00:15:51,674 --> 00:15:54,474
Speaker 2: the world's pretty soft towards you, and you haven't kind

299
00:15:54,514 --> 00:15:57,874
Speaker 2: of had that gut punch slap in the face. People

300
00:15:57,914 --> 00:16:00,914
Speaker 2: can be a bit shit moment yet, so a moment

301
00:16:01,074 --> 00:16:03,514
Speaker 2: like this is kind of a huge parenting deal for

302
00:16:03,514 --> 00:16:05,954
Speaker 2: a number of reasons. But I wanted to talk about

303
00:16:05,954 --> 00:16:07,794
Speaker 2: it today because I think we spend a lot of

304
00:16:07,874 --> 00:16:10,114
Speaker 2: years teaching our kids to be friendly and open and

305
00:16:10,154 --> 00:16:13,754
Speaker 2: polite and make eye contact and engage and don't be rude,

306
00:16:13,994 --> 00:16:16,074
Speaker 2: don't stick your hand in a cake, and then they

307
00:16:16,194 --> 00:16:18,994
Speaker 2: do all of that, and then they have this moment,

308
00:16:19,074 --> 00:16:21,154
Speaker 2: this moment is going to come in their life where

309
00:16:21,154 --> 00:16:25,914
Speaker 2: people are dicks to them, Like the world is really harsh.

310
00:16:26,034 --> 00:16:29,514
Speaker 2: So when something like this happens to your kid, do

311
00:16:29,554 --> 00:16:32,874
Speaker 2: you step in and protect them or do you tell

312
00:16:32,914 --> 00:16:35,514
Speaker 2: them the truth like, yeah, the world's really hard.

313
00:16:35,634 --> 00:16:36,674
Speaker 1: Like what do you do?

314
00:16:36,834 --> 00:16:37,834
Speaker 2: How do you prepare them?

315
00:16:38,474 --> 00:16:42,674
Speaker 3: I had not because I had followed this story really closely,

316
00:16:43,234 --> 00:16:46,074
Speaker 3: and I had not for a second thought about the

317
00:16:46,194 --> 00:16:50,114
Speaker 3: parenting perspective. I thought about, what if you were Chapel

318
00:16:50,194 --> 00:16:53,194
Speaker 3: Roone and a rogue security guard does something and you're

319
00:16:53,234 --> 00:16:57,594
Speaker 3: accountable for it. I did think about putting somebody on

320
00:16:57,674 --> 00:17:01,074
Speaker 3: blast to four point nine million followers and the ethics

321
00:17:01,114 --> 00:17:04,793
Speaker 3: of that. But as soon as you brought this up Mon's,

322
00:17:05,834 --> 00:17:10,354
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, that is such a toxic thing

323
00:17:11,194 --> 00:17:17,833
Speaker 3: to teach a kid that if somebody doesn't pander to you,

324
00:17:18,154 --> 00:17:21,674
Speaker 3: that if you're embarrassed. Maybe the security guard came over

325
00:17:21,754 --> 00:17:23,834
Speaker 3: and the eleven year old felt embarrassed, the whole family

326
00:17:23,874 --> 00:17:31,553
Speaker 3: felt embarrassed that you are then entitled to publicly shame

327
00:17:31,674 --> 00:17:36,434
Speaker 3: and humiliate another person. That is such a dangerous thing

328
00:17:36,754 --> 00:17:40,394
Speaker 3: to teach a kid, and the fame thing is really

329
00:17:40,754 --> 00:17:46,033
Speaker 3: like seeing somebody out in public and feeling like you

330
00:17:46,114 --> 00:17:49,314
Speaker 3: should be able to go up to them and engage

331
00:17:49,314 --> 00:17:51,954
Speaker 3: with them. I think phones have really done that that. Yeah,

332
00:17:51,954 --> 00:17:53,914
Speaker 3: an eleven year old would think, but that's Chapel Roone

333
00:17:53,954 --> 00:17:55,594
Speaker 3: and she's in my phone and where friends and I

334
00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:59,114
Speaker 3: listen to. I listened to all her music. I think

335
00:17:59,114 --> 00:18:02,394
Speaker 3: it's really important to explain to a kid, no, that's

336
00:18:02,434 --> 00:18:06,634
Speaker 3: actually a human being who's having her breakfast and we

337
00:18:06,674 --> 00:18:09,553
Speaker 3: don't know what her experience is like, we don't know

338
00:18:09,594 --> 00:18:14,914
Speaker 3: what her day is like. And generally, if somebody behaves

339
00:18:14,954 --> 00:18:19,714
Speaker 3: badly towards you, it's probably a really good idea as

340
00:18:19,754 --> 00:18:24,274
Speaker 3: a parent to try and express what that person's worldview

341
00:18:24,314 --> 00:18:27,754
Speaker 3: could be that, oh, well, we actually know that Chapel

342
00:18:27,794 --> 00:18:31,914
Speaker 3: Rome really struggles with people coming up to her, and

343
00:18:32,314 --> 00:18:34,554
Speaker 3: she really struggles with fame, and she has some struggles

344
00:18:34,554 --> 00:18:36,114
Speaker 3: with her mental health, and she's talked about that and

345
00:18:36,154 --> 00:18:38,994
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, Like, yes, I know that's a very

346
00:18:39,234 --> 00:18:41,514
Speaker 3: kind of evolved thing to do, but it would probably

347
00:18:41,594 --> 00:18:42,354
Speaker 3: be the ideal.

348
00:18:42,714 --> 00:18:45,314
Speaker 1: But I guess the other option is so in that

349
00:18:45,354 --> 00:18:48,394
Speaker 1: circumstance where their daughter's kind of getting this heavy life

350
00:18:48,474 --> 00:18:50,634
Speaker 1: lesson of like something didn't go your way and someone

351
00:18:50,754 --> 00:18:54,394
Speaker 1: was a jerk to you. Yes, you can say, oh,

352
00:18:54,434 --> 00:18:57,114
Speaker 1: but we rise above that and we you know, we're kind.

353
00:18:57,274 --> 00:18:59,674
Speaker 1: We never do that. But the other angle, and I

354
00:18:59,674 --> 00:19:01,914
Speaker 1: guess something that we do have to teach our kids

355
00:19:01,954 --> 00:19:05,234
Speaker 1: at some point is that like, if something happens to you,

356
00:19:05,274 --> 00:19:07,634
Speaker 1: do not have to take it lying down all the time.

357
00:19:07,714 --> 00:19:10,314
Speaker 1: And yes, you know, we're not in a position where

358
00:19:10,314 --> 00:19:12,954
Speaker 1: we'd be blasting it to five million people. I don't

359
00:19:12,994 --> 00:19:17,313
Speaker 1: agree with doing that, but it's definitely a potential thing.

360
00:19:17,314 --> 00:19:19,553
Speaker 1: And it was interesting that both parents did this, So

361
00:19:19,594 --> 00:19:22,914
Speaker 1: the stepfather did this and her mother also kind of

362
00:19:22,914 --> 00:19:25,313
Speaker 1: went on a lengthy doubled down, Yeah, doubled down and

363
00:19:25,474 --> 00:19:27,793
Speaker 1: was like, no, we did this for a reason. We

364
00:19:27,834 --> 00:19:31,634
Speaker 1: stand by what we did, and it's kind of teaching

365
00:19:31,634 --> 00:19:33,874
Speaker 1: your child that, yeah, like we're teaching you to be kind,

366
00:19:34,234 --> 00:19:36,273
Speaker 1: but there might be circumstances that call for you to

367
00:19:36,314 --> 00:19:39,513
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself. And is this not that or

368
00:19:39,714 --> 00:19:43,154
Speaker 1: is this an example of kind of snowplow parenting where

369
00:19:43,154 --> 00:19:44,714
Speaker 1: you're just like, well, you will get your way no

370
00:19:44,714 --> 00:19:46,594
Speaker 1: matter what, and I will help you get that. It's

371
00:19:46,634 --> 00:19:49,754
Speaker 1: a really interesting like fight between the two.

372
00:19:49,914 --> 00:19:53,354
Speaker 3: Because I reckon, this is snowplow parenting. Yeah, I think

373
00:19:53,794 --> 00:19:56,314
Speaker 3: there is. We had a bit of a similar situation.

374
00:19:56,554 --> 00:19:59,074
Speaker 3: I was at the chie you saw Chapel Roade, Oh yeah, yeah,

375
00:19:59,274 --> 00:20:02,394
Speaker 3: exactly the same. We were at the children's hospital with

376
00:20:02,434 --> 00:20:05,634
Speaker 3: Matilda and a lot of other sick kids and one

377
00:20:05,634 --> 00:20:07,634
Speaker 3: of the Wiggles was there. I won't I'd say which

378
00:20:07,634 --> 00:20:10,154
Speaker 3: one in case it gives away the kind of area

379
00:20:10,194 --> 00:20:12,074
Speaker 3: he lives in or whatever. But one of the Wiggles

380
00:20:12,114 --> 00:20:14,434
Speaker 3: was there and I loved him.

381
00:20:14,594 --> 00:20:17,234
Speaker 2: Was that the purple one? Tell me the hot purple?

382
00:20:17,554 --> 00:20:19,434
Speaker 2: It was one that all the mom's are fer. Was

383
00:20:19,434 --> 00:20:20,354
Speaker 2: it the tree of Life?

384
00:20:20,394 --> 00:20:26,273
Speaker 3: And it wasn't, but it was a very recognizable wiggle.

385
00:20:26,314 --> 00:20:28,874
Speaker 3: And my first thought when I saw him was that

386
00:20:29,034 --> 00:20:32,434
Speaker 3: poor poor man, he is here with his sick child

387
00:20:32,914 --> 00:20:34,834
Speaker 3: and every kid in this waiting.

388
00:20:35,114 --> 00:20:37,074
Speaker 2: He wasn't dressed as the wiggle. No, he was in

389
00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:37,834
Speaker 2: nine City.

390
00:20:37,994 --> 00:20:41,914
Speaker 3: No, he was being himself. He was being a dad

391
00:20:41,954 --> 00:20:47,914
Speaker 3: gives off, yes off judy wigs and so he is

392
00:20:47,954 --> 00:20:51,594
Speaker 3: there with his sick kid, and I thought, oh, imagine,

393
00:20:51,834 --> 00:20:54,034
Speaker 3: you've been told there was like a seven hour wait.

394
00:20:54,114 --> 00:20:56,754
Speaker 3: It was just the worst time to be in the

395
00:20:56,834 --> 00:21:00,834
Speaker 3: children's hospital, and I thought, oh god, imagine you're sitting

396
00:21:00,874 --> 00:21:04,194
Speaker 3: there being like, oh god, my kid's screaming and everybody's sick,

397
00:21:04,554 --> 00:21:07,074
Speaker 3: and every kid in that room is looking at him

398
00:21:07,314 --> 00:21:11,314
Speaker 3: being like can I get a picture? Like and I

399
00:21:11,914 --> 00:21:14,194
Speaker 3: just thought, I was like, that's a really important lesson

400
00:21:14,234 --> 00:21:16,754
Speaker 3: to say to your kid. I know that he's on

401
00:21:16,914 --> 00:21:20,034
Speaker 3: our television and we love him unconditionally and we talk

402
00:21:20,074 --> 00:21:23,714
Speaker 3: about him most days, but he is in his own

403
00:21:23,794 --> 00:21:26,474
Speaker 3: situation and you need to shut the hell up.

404
00:21:26,674 --> 00:21:27,033
Speaker 4: Yeah.

405
00:21:27,514 --> 00:21:30,553
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that I'd recognize a Wiggle without

406
00:21:30,634 --> 00:21:34,674
Speaker 2: the clothes off really say how deep? How deep are you?

407
00:21:34,714 --> 00:21:35,154
Speaker 1: And Wiggles?

408
00:21:35,674 --> 00:21:36,714
Speaker 2: Oh man, you would know that.

409
00:21:37,634 --> 00:21:40,274
Speaker 3: We go through the names of the Wiggles every evening.

410
00:21:40,514 --> 00:21:45,354
Speaker 3: We like, we are obsessed. Even people who slightly look

411
00:21:45,434 --> 00:21:50,394
Speaker 3: like Wiggles. My daughter loses it. So no, we're very familiar.

412
00:21:50,394 --> 00:21:53,714
Speaker 1: This was probably a very good example of getting a

413
00:21:53,794 --> 00:21:56,154
Speaker 1: no and not getting what you want, which is probably

414
00:21:56,154 --> 00:21:58,714
Speaker 1: what this eleven year old might have needed as well.

415
00:21:58,874 --> 00:22:02,874
Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on. She didn't approach Chapel, she didn't

416
00:22:03,514 --> 00:22:06,154
Speaker 2: ask for the autographer selfie, she didn't interrupt her. In fact,

417
00:22:06,234 --> 00:22:08,754
Speaker 2: Chapel says, I ever even remember seeing this girl, and

418
00:22:08,994 --> 00:22:14,074
Speaker 2: I certainly didn't interact with her. This is like I

419
00:22:14,074 --> 00:22:16,354
Speaker 2: think we're getting we're getting away from the central point,

420
00:22:16,354 --> 00:22:18,354
Speaker 2: which is like there is always this rugpool moment for

421
00:22:18,434 --> 00:22:21,354
Speaker 2: kids in life when it's like you're not the center

422
00:22:21,434 --> 00:22:23,474
Speaker 2: of the universe.

423
00:22:23,074 --> 00:22:23,954
Speaker 3: Anything for everyone.

424
00:22:24,034 --> 00:22:26,834
Speaker 2: Remember that moment as a kid, I remember the moment,

425
00:22:27,034 --> 00:22:27,273
Speaker 2: do you.

426
00:22:27,594 --> 00:22:30,793
Speaker 3: I think it came bloody early because I was a

427
00:22:30,874 --> 00:22:34,474
Speaker 3: twin so I was never I never had the world.

428
00:22:34,474 --> 00:22:39,434
Speaker 3: According to me, everything was compromised, and I think my

429
00:22:39,554 --> 00:22:43,513
Speaker 3: parents were pretty were pretty good at that. But and

430
00:22:43,554 --> 00:22:46,074
Speaker 3: I think maybe that's why I'm a little bit brutal

431
00:22:46,114 --> 00:22:48,914
Speaker 3: on this, and I'm a little bit critical of the

432
00:22:48,954 --> 00:22:50,674
Speaker 3: way those parents responded.

433
00:22:50,874 --> 00:22:53,273
Speaker 1: What was yours? Mon's what did that for you?

434
00:22:53,474 --> 00:22:56,674
Speaker 2: I had a teacher say to me, you're never gonna

435
00:22:56,674 --> 00:23:03,474
Speaker 2: amount to anything, and you're never going to Yeah, you're

436
00:23:03,474 --> 00:23:05,314
Speaker 2: never gonna a mount to anything, and you're never gonna

437
00:23:05,314 --> 00:23:11,194
Speaker 2: play basketball for anyone or be anything. And yeah, my

438
00:23:11,354 --> 00:23:15,274
Speaker 2: parents greatly upset me at the time. And my parents

439
00:23:15,314 --> 00:23:18,154
Speaker 2: are really pragmatic about it. I remember them being like, well, yeah,

440
00:23:18,154 --> 00:23:20,074
Speaker 2: so what are you going to do about it? Like

441
00:23:20,274 --> 00:23:22,834
Speaker 2: not going to the school and knocking on the door

442
00:23:23,034 --> 00:23:25,273
Speaker 2: and saying, how dare you not writing a letter to

443
00:23:25,314 --> 00:23:27,914
Speaker 2: the principles. They put it back on me, Well, yeah,

444
00:23:28,034 --> 00:23:30,194
Speaker 2: life's hard. People say shit, so what are you going

445
00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:34,434
Speaker 2: to do? And like, I used that little tidbit. I

446
00:23:34,514 --> 00:23:37,074
Speaker 2: used that moment for like ten years to motivate me.

447
00:23:37,714 --> 00:23:41,074
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting framing that it's like,

448
00:23:41,594 --> 00:23:47,594
Speaker 3: we don't it's almost like not about them, like this

449
00:23:48,034 --> 00:23:50,194
Speaker 3: this is the world. The world can be cruel and

450
00:23:50,354 --> 00:23:53,594
Speaker 3: unfair and people won't see you for your beautiful light

451
00:23:54,074 --> 00:23:57,834
Speaker 3: in every single moment. But I do reckon if you've

452
00:23:57,874 --> 00:24:02,874
Speaker 3: got the kind of parent who is willing to publicly

453
00:24:03,034 --> 00:24:09,074
Speaker 3: humiliate somebody who didn't, you know, meet your expectations. Because

454
00:24:09,274 --> 00:24:12,194
Speaker 3: although you're right, Mom's like it was about the security guard,

455
00:24:12,314 --> 00:24:14,914
Speaker 3: it's not a bit like chapel Rone wasn't directly involved.

456
00:24:15,754 --> 00:24:19,154
Speaker 3: The implication and the kind of narrative has gone towards

457
00:24:19,154 --> 00:24:22,434
Speaker 3: her from both the parents who were clearly very much

458
00:24:22,554 --> 00:24:25,714
Speaker 3: like why don't you engage with your fans? You're nothing

459
00:24:25,714 --> 00:24:30,674
Speaker 3: without your fans, And if oh, I think that's it seems.

460
00:24:30,474 --> 00:24:36,033
Speaker 2: Really yeah, it does feel really pointed, doesn't it, And

461
00:24:36,114 --> 00:24:38,954
Speaker 2: like I understand the feeling of wanting to defend your

462
00:24:39,034 --> 00:24:41,874
Speaker 2: child and and wanting to fight back and wanting to

463
00:24:41,914 --> 00:24:44,354
Speaker 2: stand up for what you believe in. I guess it's that,

464
00:24:44,554 --> 00:24:48,273
Speaker 2: but just on a astronomical level. Given four point nine

465
00:24:48,314 --> 00:24:48,834
Speaker 2: million follows.

466
00:24:48,954 --> 00:24:53,674
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a totally different situation, and that

467
00:24:53,794 --> 00:24:59,914
Speaker 3: you've you're clearly willing to hurt somebody to assert your

468
00:24:59,994 --> 00:25:02,513
Speaker 3: child's importance. I think that's a really bad lesson.

469
00:25:02,714 --> 00:25:06,074
Speaker 2: Yeah, hurt people, hurt people. That's what I say in

470
00:25:06,194 --> 00:25:07,074
Speaker 2: my kids all the time.

471
00:25:07,514 --> 00:25:09,594
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful, beautiful parenting.

472
00:25:11,874 --> 00:25:15,114
Speaker 1: How likely is it that your friend bails tonight? That's

473
00:25:15,154 --> 00:25:17,354
Speaker 1: the headline I saw from the New Yorker this week

474
00:25:17,394 --> 00:25:19,474
Speaker 1: that stopped me in my tracks. It was this awesome

475
00:25:19,474 --> 00:25:23,354
Speaker 1: piece by Ellen Harold, and she used very serious science,

476
00:25:23,394 --> 00:25:25,634
Speaker 1: and by science I mean her vibes and her vibes

477
00:25:25,674 --> 00:25:29,594
Speaker 1: alone to calculate how likely it is that your hang

478
00:25:29,674 --> 00:25:32,514
Speaker 1: will happen, judged off what people say. So it's basically

479
00:25:32,794 --> 00:25:35,754
Speaker 1: decoding texts and giving them a percentage. So she had

480
00:25:35,794 --> 00:25:38,274
Speaker 1: some like I'm ninety nine percent sure I can make

481
00:25:38,274 --> 00:25:42,154
Speaker 1: it tonight. Really means you're fifty percent sure, or I

482
00:25:42,194 --> 00:25:45,033
Speaker 1: could be convinced means they are in track pants and

483
00:25:45,074 --> 00:25:48,914
Speaker 1: therefore cannot be convinced it is not changing. I'm definitely

484
00:25:48,954 --> 00:25:51,834
Speaker 1: going out tonight. Is for some reason an eighty three

485
00:25:51,874 --> 00:25:52,834
Speaker 1: percent chance?

486
00:25:53,114 --> 00:25:54,474
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, you can reneg on.

487
00:25:54,674 --> 00:25:57,754
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So basically, what I wanted to do

488
00:25:57,954 --> 00:26:01,354
Speaker 1: is a parent's edition of this and give you some

489
00:26:01,514 --> 00:26:03,674
Speaker 1: of mine, and you can tell me what you think

490
00:26:03,674 --> 00:26:06,513
Speaker 1: the percentage is that this person is actually going.

491
00:26:06,714 --> 00:26:10,074
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, these actual texts that people have sent you, and.

492
00:26:10,194 --> 00:26:14,714
Speaker 1: No, just my vibe, very serious science mom, this is

493
00:26:14,874 --> 00:26:17,394
Speaker 1: my vibes of what the answer to this is. Okay,

494
00:26:17,434 --> 00:26:20,634
Speaker 1: So if someone said you, baby Billy was up coughing

495
00:26:20,714 --> 00:26:24,274
Speaker 1: last night, but I should be totally fine to come, what's.

496
00:26:24,074 --> 00:26:30,914
Speaker 2: The coming of the percentage? Yeah, are less eighteen percent?

497
00:26:30,994 --> 00:26:35,154
Speaker 1: Okay, I went twelve percent. You've already taken your bra off.

498
00:26:35,394 --> 00:26:38,394
Speaker 1: Billy is not that sick, and you have two episodes

499
00:26:38,434 --> 00:26:40,793
Speaker 1: of maths to catch up on. And this is what

500
00:26:40,914 --> 00:26:43,914
Speaker 1: children are good for. The ultimate excuse when you don't

501
00:26:43,994 --> 00:26:44,434
Speaker 1: want to go.

502
00:26:44,634 --> 00:26:49,434
Speaker 3: It's the word fine shop fine, nothing is fine.

503
00:26:49,514 --> 00:26:52,794
Speaker 1: No, no, no, okay, here's another one. It's been such

504
00:26:52,794 --> 00:26:55,434
Speaker 1: a crazy week. Excited to see you tomorrow though.

505
00:26:56,954 --> 00:26:57,674
Speaker 2: No, she's not.

506
00:26:58,554 --> 00:26:59,154
Speaker 1: No, she's not.

507
00:26:59,634 --> 00:27:02,474
Speaker 2: It's been a crazy week. She's again getting in her

508
00:27:02,554 --> 00:27:03,313
Speaker 2: Traxi pants.

509
00:27:03,474 --> 00:27:07,034
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, crazy week is not a good sign. No,

510
00:27:07,474 --> 00:27:11,513
Speaker 3: but looking forward to seeing you tomorrow now, it's though,

511
00:27:11,594 --> 00:27:12,754
Speaker 3: it's though.

512
00:27:12,994 --> 00:27:16,594
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh twenty five, twenty five.

513
00:27:16,754 --> 00:27:19,074
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm saying about twenty five as well.

514
00:27:19,154 --> 00:27:20,434
Speaker 1: I said forty percent.

515
00:27:20,714 --> 00:27:20,954
Speaker 5: Okay.

516
00:27:21,874 --> 00:27:24,354
Speaker 1: It will all depend on whether you get your period

517
00:27:24,474 --> 00:27:26,674
Speaker 1: or your husband so much as breeds loudly in your

518
00:27:26,674 --> 00:27:29,994
Speaker 1: general vicinity, which will send you into a rage cleaning meltdown,

519
00:27:30,394 --> 00:27:31,354
Speaker 1: and then you won't be able.

520
00:27:31,714 --> 00:27:34,274
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like one obstacle away.

521
00:27:34,394 --> 00:27:37,234
Speaker 1: From from not going, so it may happen.

522
00:27:37,314 --> 00:27:40,474
Speaker 2: That's fair. It's the term crazy week. Like sometimes when

523
00:27:40,474 --> 00:27:42,554
Speaker 2: you've had a crazy week, you do need to blow

524
00:27:42,594 --> 00:27:45,234
Speaker 2: off steam. Yeah, exactly, little Margie.

525
00:27:45,674 --> 00:27:48,914
Speaker 1: It could go either way. Yes, okay, here's my last one.

526
00:27:49,234 --> 00:27:51,754
Speaker 1: I've organized mum to take Billy for the night, so

527
00:27:51,874 --> 00:27:53,274
Speaker 1: excited for some cocktails.

528
00:27:53,714 --> 00:27:54,594
Speaker 3: Nine nine point.

529
00:27:56,834 --> 00:28:00,554
Speaker 1: Yeah, I said, I said. Not even a catastrophic weather

530
00:28:00,594 --> 00:28:01,594
Speaker 1: event don't stop you.

531
00:28:01,914 --> 00:28:04,434
Speaker 3: It does not matter if your child is out of

532
00:28:04,474 --> 00:28:09,674
Speaker 3: your care. Yes, I could be so unwell exactly, I

533
00:28:09,794 --> 00:28:14,114
Speaker 3: could have learned some devastating news. But I am processing

534
00:28:14,154 --> 00:28:15,194
Speaker 3: that over drink.

535
00:28:14,994 --> 00:28:17,114
Speaker 1: With my friend. Yes, and this is probably the only

536
00:28:17,234 --> 00:28:20,313
Speaker 1: night you both have in the last three months that

537
00:28:20,394 --> 00:28:23,234
Speaker 1: you could make this work. So it is happening.

538
00:28:23,314 --> 00:28:27,434
Speaker 2: It does not fu Yeah, I'm fake tanning for that coming.

539
00:28:27,914 --> 00:28:28,634
Speaker 2: I'm fake tanning.

540
00:28:28,674 --> 00:28:29,074
Speaker 1: I'm putting.

541
00:28:29,114 --> 00:28:30,394
Speaker 2: I'm using makeup that night.

542
00:28:30,514 --> 00:28:33,754
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, the fancy stuff, not just the stuff at

543
00:28:33,754 --> 00:28:37,033
Speaker 1: the bottom and the draw. Okay, So there is a

544
00:28:37,074 --> 00:28:39,834
Speaker 1: new trend that's everywhere this week, and it's really riled

545
00:28:39,874 --> 00:28:42,554
Speaker 1: me up. I thought I was above getting angry at

546
00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:44,514
Speaker 1: strangers on the internet. I really did. I thought it

547
00:28:44,554 --> 00:28:46,594
Speaker 1: was more evolved than that. But apparently I'm not.

548
00:28:46,754 --> 00:28:47,354
Speaker 3: None of us though.

549
00:28:48,074 --> 00:28:51,834
Speaker 1: No, Well, it got me good this week. So this

550
00:28:51,954 --> 00:28:54,554
Speaker 1: is called the sibling effect, and it's where parents make

551
00:28:54,634 --> 00:28:57,474
Speaker 1: videos of their kids before the sibling comes along. So

552
00:28:57,514 --> 00:28:59,474
Speaker 1: it might be like a little girl sitting on a

553
00:28:59,474 --> 00:29:03,234
Speaker 1: bench having an ice cream or like playing quietly with

554
00:29:03,314 --> 00:29:05,434
Speaker 1: her toys, and it's set to a lot of them

555
00:29:05,474 --> 00:29:08,514
Speaker 1: are set to that song American Pie by Don McLain,

556
00:29:08,674 --> 00:29:12,594
Speaker 1: you know where he's like the day the music dad,

557
00:29:13,114 --> 00:29:16,074
Speaker 1: and then it gets very upbeat and happy. So that's

558
00:29:16,114 --> 00:29:19,994
Speaker 1: the before is like sad, lonely child, sad quiet music.

559
00:29:20,354 --> 00:29:23,874
Speaker 1: And the after is the child with their siblings. So

560
00:29:24,114 --> 00:29:29,354
Speaker 1: cute of course, siblings cuddling siblings on a seesaw. It's

561
00:29:29,554 --> 00:29:33,394
Speaker 1: very sweet on first glance, and it often is accompanied

562
00:29:33,394 --> 00:29:36,114
Speaker 1: by a caption that says, now they'll never have to

563
00:29:36,194 --> 00:29:39,754
Speaker 1: walk life alone. And I can see why if you

564
00:29:39,874 --> 00:29:42,634
Speaker 1: have kids, if you have multiple kids, you want to

565
00:29:42,674 --> 00:29:44,834
Speaker 1: share this footage. This is the gold standard. This is

566
00:29:44,834 --> 00:29:47,314
Speaker 1: what you hope for siblings, that they'll get along like

567
00:29:47,354 --> 00:29:52,234
Speaker 1: that and have that relationship. But it starts to get

568
00:29:52,274 --> 00:29:55,554
Speaker 1: particularly hurtful for one group of parents, of which I

569
00:29:55,634 --> 00:29:59,874
Speaker 1: belong to. So I'm going to be the spokesperson today. Yes, please,

570
00:30:00,634 --> 00:30:02,954
Speaker 1: I'm going to get on my high horse, because for

571
00:30:03,034 --> 00:30:06,394
Speaker 1: families with one child, whether that is through choice or

572
00:30:06,434 --> 00:30:10,034
Speaker 1: whether that is through circumstance, this is sending a very

573
00:30:10,074 --> 00:30:13,074
Speaker 1: clear message that your child will always be stuck in

574
00:30:13,114 --> 00:30:16,874
Speaker 1: the before that there's this other better version of their

575
00:30:16,954 --> 00:30:20,314
Speaker 1: life just here, just out of grasp. But either you're

576
00:30:20,394 --> 00:30:22,754
Speaker 1: choosing not to give it to them, or you don't

577
00:30:22,794 --> 00:30:25,594
Speaker 1: have the ability or circumstances to be able to give

578
00:30:25,594 --> 00:30:28,954
Speaker 1: it to them. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable

579
00:30:29,034 --> 00:30:31,274
Speaker 1: with this. You can both tell me to get a grip,

580
00:30:31,674 --> 00:30:34,394
Speaker 1: but it's just settled in me this week, and I

581
00:30:34,554 --> 00:30:36,914
Speaker 1: really needed to talk to you, both of them.

582
00:30:37,714 --> 00:30:41,434
Speaker 3: I have also been triggered by the same trend for

583
00:30:41,554 --> 00:30:44,154
Speaker 3: different reasons. Okay, so I like that it's triggering for

584
00:30:44,194 --> 00:30:48,474
Speaker 3: both of us together. The reason it was triggering for

585
00:30:48,554 --> 00:30:52,074
Speaker 3: me because obviously started coming up and I was like, yeah, yeah,

586
00:30:52,674 --> 00:30:56,994
Speaker 3: But then I noticed there were a lot the further

587
00:30:57,074 --> 00:31:00,354
Speaker 3: I got into this rabbit hole, there were a lot

588
00:31:00,474 --> 00:31:04,394
Speaker 3: that were about sisters, and it was about like, there's

589
00:31:04,434 --> 00:31:08,234
Speaker 3: no relationship like a sister. And then I got in

590
00:31:08,274 --> 00:31:12,394
Speaker 3: my head thinking, oh, I'm not giving Matilda a sister.

591
00:31:12,434 --> 00:31:15,194
Speaker 3: I'm giving her a brother, and it's not really in

592
00:31:15,234 --> 00:31:17,434
Speaker 3: my control. If I ever give her a sister, it's

593
00:31:17,474 --> 00:31:20,114
Speaker 3: not really in my control. If I give this boy

594
00:31:20,154 --> 00:31:24,874
Speaker 3: a brother, that's not in anyone's control. And I started thinking.

595
00:31:24,954 --> 00:31:26,594
Speaker 3: Then I started thinking, I'm like, well, I love my

596
00:31:26,794 --> 00:31:29,354
Speaker 3: sister and she's a really important part of my life,

597
00:31:29,394 --> 00:31:31,674
Speaker 3: and I'm not what if Matilda doesn't have that, and

598
00:31:31,674 --> 00:31:35,634
Speaker 3: have I deprived her of That really really got me

599
00:31:36,514 --> 00:31:41,794
Speaker 3: into this cycle of shame over something that even if

600
00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:46,394
Speaker 3: I wanted to I can't control. And it did make

601
00:31:46,434 --> 00:31:51,114
Speaker 3: me think also about how that trend set such high

602
00:31:51,194 --> 00:31:54,474
Speaker 3: expectations for what the bond is going to be like

603
00:31:54,554 --> 00:31:57,914
Speaker 3: between the kids when a second or third or whatever arrives,

604
00:31:58,634 --> 00:32:02,914
Speaker 3: and what the family dynamic is going to be like.

605
00:32:03,074 --> 00:32:05,514
Speaker 3: The other thing that a lot of those videos have

606
00:32:06,394 --> 00:32:10,794
Speaker 3: is the moment that the kids meet. But also Mon's

607
00:32:10,994 --> 00:32:13,834
Speaker 3: I wonder if you had this like that is a

608
00:32:13,914 --> 00:32:16,714
Speaker 3: huge trend as well, like the moment that you bring

609
00:32:16,794 --> 00:32:19,834
Speaker 3: your toddler into all your other child into the hospital

610
00:32:19,874 --> 00:32:22,554
Speaker 3: to meet the newborn. And so many of my friends

611
00:32:23,194 --> 00:32:28,274
Speaker 3: have said that was toxic for me because one, who

612
00:32:28,714 --> 00:32:30,434
Speaker 3: it may not look like that. You may have a

613
00:32:30,474 --> 00:32:32,754
Speaker 3: premie baby and they may be in NICU and you

614
00:32:32,794 --> 00:32:35,874
Speaker 3: may not want a toddler around them. Two, a lot

615
00:32:35,914 --> 00:32:38,754
Speaker 3: of toddlers, they're not going to get it. They're gonna scream,

616
00:32:38,754 --> 00:32:40,314
Speaker 3: they're gonna like wait till you're home.

617
00:32:40,434 --> 00:32:43,514
Speaker 1: Even older kids like they might not care. It's the

618
00:32:43,674 --> 00:32:46,314
Speaker 1: meeting a blob at that point, and so it may

619
00:32:46,354 --> 00:32:49,234
Speaker 1: not be that magical moment. And I think that's what

620
00:32:49,754 --> 00:32:53,594
Speaker 1: this is. It's romanticizing of a sibling in every way,

621
00:32:54,034 --> 00:32:56,754
Speaker 1: in any way it comes it's saying that this is

622
00:32:56,794 --> 00:32:59,194
Speaker 1: going to be such a magical thing, and why aren't

623
00:32:59,234 --> 00:33:01,194
Speaker 1: you giving that to your child?

624
00:33:01,434 --> 00:33:04,314
Speaker 2: I think I want to say, first up off the bat,

625
00:33:04,394 --> 00:33:07,474
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry you had to see that, Stacy, and

626
00:33:07,634 --> 00:33:10,554
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that it elected such an emotional reaction in you.

627
00:33:10,634 --> 00:33:12,514
Speaker 2: And as it would as it would right like this

628
00:33:12,594 --> 00:33:15,514
Speaker 2: sits at This is kind of on the surface for you, right,

629
00:33:15,554 --> 00:33:17,394
Speaker 2: it's front of mine for you. You've talked about it

630
00:33:17,434 --> 00:33:19,954
Speaker 2: on this podcast before. And it sucks that you have

631
00:33:20,034 --> 00:33:22,274
Speaker 2: to scroll through your feed, which is probably a source

632
00:33:22,314 --> 00:33:24,994
Speaker 2: of entertainment delight most of the time, and then see

633
00:33:24,994 --> 00:33:27,554
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. And I want to say thank

634
00:33:27,594 --> 00:33:29,714
Speaker 2: you for bringing this topic to the show, because it

635
00:33:29,754 --> 00:33:31,194
Speaker 2: would have been one of those things that I just

636
00:33:31,194 --> 00:33:35,034
Speaker 2: scrolled past and not thought about. But hearing that perspective

637
00:33:35,154 --> 00:33:38,314
Speaker 2: of someone that has one is really important, and it's

638
00:33:38,314 --> 00:33:41,154
Speaker 2: not something that we hear that often. I don't understand.

639
00:33:41,154 --> 00:33:44,714
Speaker 2: I'm not a marketing person, Like, what would compel a

640
00:33:44,834 --> 00:33:47,594
Speaker 2: mother or a family or a father to make this

641
00:33:47,754 --> 00:33:49,914
Speaker 2: kind of content? I don't know, you're both content makers.

642
00:33:49,994 --> 00:33:52,114
Speaker 2: Why are they doing this? What are they trying to say?

643
00:33:52,554 --> 00:33:55,474
Speaker 1: I think it's because you know, so much of what

644
00:33:55,514 --> 00:33:57,234
Speaker 1: we see on the internet. We're smart enough to know

645
00:33:57,314 --> 00:33:58,834
Speaker 1: this now, is that a lot of it is to

646
00:33:58,914 --> 00:34:01,834
Speaker 1: elicit a reaction. They don't necessarily care if it's a

647
00:34:01,834 --> 00:34:04,394
Speaker 1: positive or negative one. And if you look at these videos,

648
00:34:04,434 --> 00:34:06,594
Speaker 1: the comments are very much split in half. You've got

649
00:34:06,634 --> 00:34:09,113
Speaker 1: people saying and completely agree, it's a bomb like no other,

650
00:34:09,514 --> 00:34:11,314
Speaker 1: and then you've got other people saying, I think I'd

651
00:34:11,393 --> 00:34:13,874
Speaker 1: rather my child have a happy parent who's not stretched

652
00:34:13,873 --> 00:34:16,913
Speaker 1: beyond their means than give them a sibling, purely out

653
00:34:16,914 --> 00:34:20,194
Speaker 1: of service to them. But it very much feels like

654
00:34:20,234 --> 00:34:22,873
Speaker 1: by doing that and creating this content that's kind of

655
00:34:22,994 --> 00:34:26,514
Speaker 1: meant to get these big reactions. It's almost forced parents

656
00:34:26,554 --> 00:34:31,274
Speaker 1: into trying to advocate for their choice, like and trying

657
00:34:31,314 --> 00:34:34,473
Speaker 1: to make their choice the better choice and showing and

658
00:34:34,514 --> 00:34:37,393
Speaker 1: showing that. But I think one of the reasons it

659
00:34:37,434 --> 00:34:40,314
Speaker 1: does it does hit a nerve. And the thing that

660
00:34:40,434 --> 00:34:42,994
Speaker 1: kind of bothered me most about it is because the

661
00:34:42,994 --> 00:34:46,394
Speaker 1: biggest question you do ask when you've got one child

662
00:34:46,554 --> 00:34:49,714
Speaker 1: is do I owe my child a sibling? Like it

663
00:34:49,834 --> 00:34:52,513
Speaker 1: is something that I'm surprised plays on your mind even

664
00:34:52,514 --> 00:34:54,754
Speaker 1: when you're quite set in that decision, even when you're

665
00:34:54,754 --> 00:34:57,834
Speaker 1: one hundred percent set in that decision. And for people.

666
00:34:57,554 --> 00:35:00,234
Speaker 2: Because you're getting pressure, you're getting pressure from more side stages.

667
00:35:00,354 --> 00:35:02,554
Speaker 2: It's not like an internal thing. It's the message is

668
00:35:02,594 --> 00:35:05,433
Speaker 2: that you're being sent constantly, is asking you when are

669
00:35:05,474 --> 00:35:07,393
Speaker 2: you having another one? It's people asking you do you

670
00:35:07,394 --> 00:35:09,194
Speaker 2: have a brother or sister? Like, it's all of those

671
00:35:09,274 --> 00:35:12,513
Speaker 2: things yeah, but are just like subconsciously ticking away all

672
00:35:12,554 --> 00:35:12,873
Speaker 2: the time.

673
00:35:13,034 --> 00:35:15,274
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for people in that position, it's like a

674
00:35:15,314 --> 00:35:17,754
Speaker 1: constant loop of why am I not strong enough to

675
00:35:17,754 --> 00:35:19,834
Speaker 1: do that? Or why won't my body do that? Or

676
00:35:19,874 --> 00:35:21,954
Speaker 1: why don't I feel the urge to do that again?

677
00:35:22,034 --> 00:35:24,034
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a lot of these feelings of

678
00:35:24,074 --> 00:35:26,154
Speaker 1: guilt that you have lay it on, and then when

679
00:35:26,234 --> 00:35:29,794
Speaker 1: you see this picture perfect version of what that could be,

680
00:35:30,794 --> 00:35:33,874
Speaker 1: it does make you feel bad, like it really does.

681
00:35:33,994 --> 00:35:36,393
Speaker 1: And I don't know what the answer to that is

682
00:35:36,434 --> 00:35:38,913
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, this isn't to shit on

683
00:35:38,994 --> 00:35:42,754
Speaker 1: people that have multiple kids like that is a wonderful

684
00:35:42,834 --> 00:35:45,393
Speaker 1: choice for so many families, But it's like, how can

685
00:35:45,474 --> 00:35:49,194
Speaker 1: we all coexist in this space where whatever choice you

686
00:35:49,274 --> 00:35:51,114
Speaker 1: made is fine and we don't have to call it

687
00:35:51,154 --> 00:35:52,274
Speaker 1: an effect.

688
00:35:52,074 --> 00:35:54,754
Speaker 3: But it is. It is that idea of like when

689
00:35:54,794 --> 00:35:58,794
Speaker 3: you turn something into a trend and yet put romantic

690
00:35:58,874 --> 00:36:02,794
Speaker 3: music behind it, all of that you are suggesting that

691
00:36:02,794 --> 00:36:06,194
Speaker 3: that thing that you have done is the ideal and

692
00:36:06,314 --> 00:36:09,274
Speaker 3: other people who don't do it are lacking. And it

693
00:36:09,394 --> 00:36:13,033
Speaker 3: goes for so many aspects of parenting. And I think

694
00:36:13,194 --> 00:36:16,033
Speaker 3: every parent who has ever been on the internet has

695
00:36:16,154 --> 00:36:20,953
Speaker 3: felt shame and as though they're doing something wrong, and

696
00:36:21,634 --> 00:36:23,754
Speaker 3: that I used to get it. I remember when I

697
00:36:23,834 --> 00:36:26,314
Speaker 3: got it, very cutely, was when I was struggling with

698
00:36:26,354 --> 00:36:30,473
Speaker 3: breastfeeding and everything was like these mums like crying while

699
00:36:30,474 --> 00:36:32,553
Speaker 3: they were breastfeeding and just saying how it's the most

700
00:36:32,594 --> 00:36:35,834
Speaker 3: magical experience and the tragedy of the last time, the

701
00:36:35,914 --> 00:36:38,674
Speaker 3: last feed and all of that, and I would just

702
00:36:38,714 --> 00:36:42,074
Speaker 3: be thinking, oh my god, Like I like, I know,

703
00:36:42,434 --> 00:36:44,634
Speaker 3: I know it's important, I know the science, I know

704
00:36:44,754 --> 00:36:47,994
Speaker 3: all of that. I am really struggling with something that

705
00:36:48,154 --> 00:36:52,594
Speaker 3: I cannot control, and I am just being bombarded with

706
00:36:53,674 --> 00:36:56,473
Speaker 3: the emotion of it. Like there's one thing to know,

707
00:36:57,274 --> 00:37:00,834
Speaker 3: to know facts about what's good for your child whatever,

708
00:37:01,074 --> 00:37:06,274
Speaker 3: but there's another thing. The emotional guilt is bloody horrific.

709
00:37:06,514 --> 00:37:06,954
Speaker 1: Yeah.

710
00:37:07,434 --> 00:37:10,474
Speaker 2: I think the question was that you asked Claire earlier,

711
00:37:10,794 --> 00:37:14,434
Speaker 2: who is this for? And that is such an interesting

712
00:37:14,514 --> 00:37:17,034
Speaker 2: question to ask, because I think if we if you

713
00:37:17,274 --> 00:37:19,594
Speaker 2: reached out to one of these influences that made one

714
00:37:19,674 --> 00:37:22,433
Speaker 2: of these sibling effect videos and said like, what are

715
00:37:22,434 --> 00:37:25,034
Speaker 2: you doing? Do you realize like this is hurting people?

716
00:37:25,394 --> 00:37:28,114
Speaker 2: Their intention would never be to do that. You know,

717
00:37:28,194 --> 00:37:31,114
Speaker 2: it might be Devil's Advocate that who this is for

718
00:37:31,834 --> 00:37:35,194
Speaker 2: is for the parents to go to try and legitimize

719
00:37:35,234 --> 00:37:38,834
Speaker 2: their decision, to capture the memories, to be able to

720
00:37:38,834 --> 00:37:41,033
Speaker 2: look back on it and remember how little their kids were,

721
00:37:41,074 --> 00:37:43,954
Speaker 2: to make themselves feel better, and to make them feel

722
00:37:43,954 --> 00:37:46,354
Speaker 2: like they're in control of something which is kind of

723
00:37:46,394 --> 00:37:49,234
Speaker 2: out of our control. Like parenting, you lose a lot

724
00:37:49,274 --> 00:37:51,474
Speaker 2: of control in it. So maybe I don't know, just

725
00:37:51,514 --> 00:37:55,474
Speaker 2: like Devil's Advocate that this isn't supposed to be making

726
00:37:55,554 --> 00:37:58,354
Speaker 2: other people feel bad, it's an effect of it. But

727
00:37:58,474 --> 00:38:02,834
Speaker 2: maybe it's just actually about controlling something in a landscape

728
00:38:02,874 --> 00:38:06,274
Speaker 2: that feels really out of control. This part of the

729
00:38:06,314 --> 00:38:10,834
Speaker 2: shows where we reckon amend things that we actually love sick.

730
00:38:11,314 --> 00:38:14,354
Speaker 2: We might have seen something on Instagram that we in

731
00:38:14,394 --> 00:38:16,873
Speaker 2: fact brings us joy and delight, or we might have

732
00:38:16,914 --> 00:38:20,274
Speaker 2: bought something, or used something or done something. So recommendations

733
00:38:20,354 --> 00:38:25,274
Speaker 2: Claire Pragante, Pregante News. What's from the Pregante Dispatches. What

734
00:38:25,314 --> 00:38:26,714
Speaker 2: are you obsessed with this week?

735
00:38:26,994 --> 00:38:32,714
Speaker 3: Okay? So I have followed this midwife on TikTok forever,

736
00:38:32,834 --> 00:38:35,393
Speaker 3: since the very early days of TikTok. Her name is

737
00:38:35,474 --> 00:38:39,194
Speaker 3: Jen Hamilton. She is a labor and delivery nurse in

738
00:38:39,194 --> 00:38:42,714
Speaker 3: the US. She also used to be an er nurse,

739
00:38:42,754 --> 00:38:46,714
Speaker 3: so there's an ed nurse, so she has some amazing

740
00:38:46,714 --> 00:38:49,034
Speaker 3: stories about that as well. But she's now written a

741
00:38:49,034 --> 00:38:51,994
Speaker 3: book called Birth Vibes, which kind of sums up like

742
00:38:52,554 --> 00:38:57,074
Speaker 3: just what her energy is generally, which is very She

743
00:38:57,274 --> 00:39:02,794
Speaker 3: has an amazing way of explaining labor, birth postpartum in

744
00:39:02,834 --> 00:39:06,834
Speaker 3: a warm, empathetic way while still getting across all the

745
00:39:06,874 --> 00:39:11,994
Speaker 3: media information while acknowledging the nuances of all of it

746
00:39:12,034 --> 00:39:17,114
Speaker 3: that the medical system sometimes isn't perfect for what a

747
00:39:17,194 --> 00:39:21,913
Speaker 3: mum wants, and so she is just my go to

748
00:39:21,994 --> 00:39:26,354
Speaker 3: at the moment. Every video she posts, I absolutely love it.

749
00:39:26,434 --> 00:39:30,274
Speaker 3: She did one the other day that was about the

750
00:39:30,394 --> 00:39:33,594
Speaker 3: tension between if you are about to deliver your baby

751
00:39:33,674 --> 00:39:37,194
Speaker 3: and you are saying I don't want x Y and

752
00:39:37,274 --> 00:39:39,074
Speaker 3: Z or I do want X Y and Z. And

753
00:39:39,114 --> 00:39:42,834
Speaker 3: she's very very good at telling people how to advocate

754
00:39:42,874 --> 00:39:45,714
Speaker 3: for themselves and what is your choice and what isn't well,

755
00:39:45,754 --> 00:39:48,393
Speaker 3: not that anything isn't your choice, but basically how to

756
00:39:48,434 --> 00:39:50,594
Speaker 3: word things, what questions to ask, all of that, how

757
00:39:50,594 --> 00:39:52,994
Speaker 3: to be prepared. But she also explained that from the

758
00:39:53,034 --> 00:39:57,393
Speaker 3: perspective of a midwife or an obstetrician, they have a

759
00:39:57,474 --> 00:40:00,114
Speaker 3: duty of care where they can't do anything to you

760
00:40:00,234 --> 00:40:07,393
Speaker 3: that they don't think is correct. So she describes in

761
00:40:07,474 --> 00:40:11,514
Speaker 3: standoffs sometimes where a mother is advocating for something that

762
00:40:11,514 --> 00:40:14,474
Speaker 3: the doctor physically will not do, and she's like, I

763
00:40:14,474 --> 00:40:17,433
Speaker 3: don't have an answer to it, but I'm telling you

764
00:40:17,474 --> 00:40:20,234
Speaker 3: that these situations arise not because anyone's evil, not because

765
00:40:20,234 --> 00:40:23,314
Speaker 3: anyone is trying to get in the way of your rights,

766
00:40:23,314 --> 00:40:27,034
Speaker 3: but just because that is the conflict in medicine. So

767
00:40:27,154 --> 00:40:31,354
Speaker 3: she has so many birth stories, she has so many

768
00:40:31,834 --> 00:40:35,473
Speaker 3: just great examples of the way birth can go, and

769
00:40:35,554 --> 00:40:38,914
Speaker 3: just every question you have ever had about C section induction,

770
00:40:40,074 --> 00:40:44,354
Speaker 3: how all of it can go. She is so so

771
00:40:44,354 --> 00:40:46,594
Speaker 3: so clever and she I watch her and I'm like,

772
00:40:46,634 --> 00:40:49,274
Speaker 3: that is the midwife you want in the room, who

773
00:40:49,434 --> 00:40:51,873
Speaker 3: will look you in the eye and say this is

774
00:40:51,914 --> 00:40:54,994
Speaker 3: all up to you, like, we are going at your pace.

775
00:40:55,354 --> 00:40:56,794
Speaker 3: I am not going to do anything to you that

776
00:40:56,834 --> 00:41:01,354
Speaker 3: you do not consent to, and we care about you

777
00:41:01,394 --> 00:41:03,553
Speaker 3: as much as we care about your baby. She's also

778
00:41:03,914 --> 00:41:07,234
Speaker 3: got great stories about some of the things that men

779
00:41:07,314 --> 00:41:12,434
Speaker 3: do in the delivery room, which I faint no like,

780
00:41:12,434 --> 00:41:17,473
Speaker 3: like men who bring in like video games and men

781
00:41:17,554 --> 00:41:19,994
Speaker 3: who just say the wrong thing, and and it's like, no,

782
00:41:20,154 --> 00:41:22,314
Speaker 3: the midwives are not here for you, so.

783
00:41:22,434 --> 00:41:24,834
Speaker 2: We are pro we are pro dad on this show.

784
00:41:25,314 --> 00:41:27,954
Speaker 2: Are the stories? Are there stories of good duds showing

785
00:41:28,034 --> 00:41:29,033
Speaker 2: up in the delivery rooms?

786
00:41:29,274 --> 00:41:33,354
Speaker 3: So many, so many, and overwhelmingly she's very, very positive,

787
00:41:33,714 --> 00:41:36,474
Speaker 3: But every now and then there are those stories just

788
00:41:36,514 --> 00:41:40,954
Speaker 3: in the context of how much you are as a midwife.

789
00:41:41,394 --> 00:41:43,274
Speaker 3: You are there for that woman and you are directing

790
00:41:43,274 --> 00:41:46,434
Speaker 3: all your questions to her and not and not the partner.

791
00:41:46,994 --> 00:41:49,554
Speaker 3: So I just say go and have a binge on

792
00:41:49,594 --> 00:41:51,794
Speaker 3: her videos. They are endlessly entertained.

793
00:41:51,834 --> 00:41:53,993
Speaker 1: I actually love a birth story like I will never

794
00:41:54,034 --> 00:41:56,834
Speaker 1: get s birth stories. I think they're the best, like

795
00:41:57,394 --> 00:41:59,873
Speaker 1: and it's probably for you. It probably feels like exposure

796
00:41:59,914 --> 00:42:03,114
Speaker 1: therapy too. If I just hear all the different variables.

797
00:42:03,394 --> 00:42:05,714
Speaker 1: Then whichever one it is, I've got like an anecdotal

798
00:42:05,754 --> 00:42:07,114
Speaker 1: story about where.

799
00:42:07,194 --> 00:42:12,274
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's very open about smells. The fact that you

800
00:42:12,274 --> 00:42:15,554
Speaker 3: you will pooh, yeah, and that's okay, and your midwife

801
00:42:15,634 --> 00:42:18,034
Speaker 3: loves that for you. If you if you are pooing,

802
00:42:18,154 --> 00:42:20,754
Speaker 3: your midwife is like you are pushing, pushing so well,

803
00:42:21,394 --> 00:42:22,554
Speaker 3: So it's very reassuring.

804
00:42:23,114 --> 00:42:23,473
Speaker 1: Love it.

805
00:42:23,594 --> 00:42:28,473
Speaker 2: Five poos here, five poos. Yeah, they call me five

806
00:42:28,514 --> 00:42:34,634
Speaker 2: pooh bowlie. They kept I think because one delivery. Yeah,

807
00:42:34,674 --> 00:42:36,154
Speaker 2: I think your wives are bloody amazing.

808
00:42:36,474 --> 00:42:37,754
Speaker 1: Oh, I really bond.

809
00:42:38,074 --> 00:42:40,433
Speaker 3: The bond you have with your midwives by the end

810
00:42:40,474 --> 00:42:43,514
Speaker 3: of it, Oh, it's something else, really.

811
00:42:43,594 --> 00:42:46,033
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that moment in a nightclub in the

812
00:42:46,074 --> 00:42:49,114
Speaker 2: bathroom when you're friends the little girls like that time's

813
00:42:49,154 --> 00:42:52,314
Speaker 2: a thousand. Yeah, it's so good.

814
00:42:52,154 --> 00:42:53,434
Speaker 3: Because they've seen your age.

815
00:42:53,594 --> 00:43:01,634
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the pain. But the aforementioned stacy. Yeah, one

816
00:43:01,834 --> 00:43:06,594
Speaker 1: from one suspicious fluid to another. Yes, I have been

817
00:43:06,634 --> 00:43:11,754
Speaker 1: putting snail secretion on my face and loving it. And look,

818
00:43:11,834 --> 00:43:14,114
Speaker 1: I'm about two years later to this trend, so you

819
00:43:14,194 --> 00:43:16,594
Speaker 1: too might be like, Yes, people have been doing this

820
00:43:16,634 --> 00:43:18,554
Speaker 1: for a long time. I know they speak about it

821
00:43:18,554 --> 00:43:20,234
Speaker 1: on New Beauty. They've been speaking about it on New

822
00:43:20,274 --> 00:43:21,074
Speaker 1: Beauty for years.

823
00:43:21,194 --> 00:43:23,474
Speaker 3: I've never done it, so I need Okay.

824
00:43:23,714 --> 00:43:24,433
Speaker 1: So it's the.

825
00:43:25,114 --> 00:43:26,554
Speaker 2: Does it smell like snail?

826
00:43:26,994 --> 00:43:29,914
Speaker 1: No, it kind of does it sort of like anything.

827
00:43:30,914 --> 00:43:33,594
Speaker 2: You know when snails have that the it like it's

828
00:43:33,594 --> 00:43:36,674
Speaker 2: a fluorescent trail. Your face get fluorescent, well.

829
00:43:36,674 --> 00:43:38,794
Speaker 1: Not fluorescent, but that is kind of the effect it has.

830
00:43:38,994 --> 00:43:44,114
Speaker 1: So it's the cost RX snail Muken Power Essence twenty

831
00:43:44,194 --> 00:43:46,714
Speaker 1: one bucks on Amazon. I saw it cheaper and they

832
00:43:46,714 --> 00:43:48,954
Speaker 1: sell it in Kmart now, which I didn't realize. So

833
00:43:49,074 --> 00:43:52,554
Speaker 1: that's also fun, so very affordable. But it's essentially like

834
00:43:52,594 --> 00:43:56,154
Speaker 1: a serum, like you're putting it on as a syrus.

835
00:43:56,234 --> 00:43:58,674
Speaker 3: Is it hydrating? Is that idea? Okay?

836
00:43:58,674 --> 00:44:02,714
Speaker 1: So it gives you a face like a plump baby's thigh,

837
00:44:03,114 --> 00:44:06,314
Speaker 1: you know, just that like us delicious feeling. So I

838
00:44:06,394 --> 00:44:09,034
Speaker 1: put it on before and it just is like, yeah,

839
00:44:09,114 --> 00:44:11,034
Speaker 1: it like sucks it all up and feels like your

840
00:44:11,074 --> 00:44:13,074
Speaker 1: skin is nice and juicy.

841
00:44:13,274 --> 00:44:14,554
Speaker 3: Oh I need that, okay.

842
00:44:14,714 --> 00:44:17,194
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I just you know, Amelia Love is a

843
00:44:17,234 --> 00:44:19,754
Speaker 1: K beauty thing, and everyone tells you how good K

844
00:44:19,914 --> 00:44:22,433
Speaker 1: beauty is, and it is so cheap in comparison to

845
00:44:22,474 --> 00:44:25,913
Speaker 1: these like ninety dollars serums. So yeah, I just love it,

846
00:44:26,114 --> 00:44:28,234
Speaker 1: So try that. What's yours months.

847
00:44:28,274 --> 00:44:30,674
Speaker 2: I'm always like hyper aware of how smug I sound

848
00:44:30,674 --> 00:44:32,594
Speaker 2: in these recommendations, and I listen back to this show

849
00:44:32,634 --> 00:44:34,194
Speaker 2: and I want to slap myself in the face. I'm like,

850
00:44:34,274 --> 00:44:36,513
Speaker 2: shut up, you think you're so good as a mum,

851
00:44:36,554 --> 00:44:38,634
Speaker 2: and so pre warning, this is another one of those

852
00:44:38,674 --> 00:44:41,234
Speaker 2: recommendations where you're gonna hate me for it. But also

853
00:44:41,474 --> 00:44:43,274
Speaker 2: some people might be like, Okay, I'll give it a go.

854
00:44:43,954 --> 00:44:46,954
Speaker 2: I'm a bit psycho about screen time for my kids,

855
00:44:47,314 --> 00:44:50,393
Speaker 2: Like I'm always like, this is rotting your brains, and

856
00:44:50,474 --> 00:44:53,514
Speaker 2: yet I am also like, luody, dad da, here's my

857
00:44:53,554 --> 00:44:57,314
Speaker 2: fourteen hours on my iPhone. So I bought a phone

858
00:44:57,394 --> 00:45:00,874
Speaker 2: lock box. It's a wooden container. I got it off Amazon.

859
00:45:01,594 --> 00:45:04,674
Speaker 2: It's got a timer on it. It's a safe for

860
00:45:04,754 --> 00:45:06,354
Speaker 2: your phone. You have to put your phone in and

861
00:45:06,394 --> 00:45:08,154
Speaker 2: set the tim out, and once it's a lot, you

862
00:45:08,194 --> 00:45:09,594
Speaker 2: cannot get your phone out.

863
00:45:09,594 --> 00:45:11,834
Speaker 1: So you can't get it out no matter what, like

864
00:45:11,914 --> 00:45:13,314
Speaker 1: unless break.

865
00:45:13,354 --> 00:45:16,393
Speaker 2: Okay, if you're desperate, you have to log in to

866
00:45:16,554 --> 00:45:18,914
Speaker 2: the internet and it gives you some it sends a

867
00:45:18,954 --> 00:45:21,393
Speaker 2: code to your email, like if you're that desperate, but

868
00:45:21,434 --> 00:45:22,834
Speaker 2: they haven't been yet.

869
00:45:22,994 --> 00:45:26,314
Speaker 3: They know humans so well that they know you're too

870
00:45:26,394 --> 00:45:30,154
Speaker 3: lazy to do that, and that really shows you the extent,

871
00:45:31,274 --> 00:45:34,154
Speaker 3: like you'd know you had a real problem with addiction

872
00:45:34,754 --> 00:45:38,074
Speaker 3: if you did that. Yeah, so I've also got one

873
00:45:38,074 --> 00:45:42,033
Speaker 3: of those safe and yeah, no, it changes your life.

874
00:45:42,194 --> 00:45:45,114
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's because I am addicted to my phone.

875
00:45:45,154 --> 00:45:47,513
Speaker 2: It was it's getting gross. One of the kids was like, yeah,

876
00:45:47,674 --> 00:45:49,474
Speaker 2: he's on your phone. I was like, right, okay, if

877
00:45:49,474 --> 00:45:52,034
Speaker 2: they're noticing it, I better. I have no willpower. I

878
00:45:52,074 --> 00:45:54,074
Speaker 2: need something else that will do it for me. So

879
00:45:55,194 --> 00:45:58,034
Speaker 2: it's been hard, but I'm doing it all week nights

880
00:45:58,554 --> 00:46:00,794
Speaker 2: and then on Saturday night, that's my night off my

881
00:46:00,874 --> 00:46:03,314
Speaker 2: lock box. I have my sacred ritual where I get

882
00:46:03,354 --> 00:46:06,514
Speaker 2: into bed with like the Audi choker chocolate like it

883
00:46:06,634 --> 00:46:09,913
Speaker 2: is so good if you need and then I get

884
00:46:09,954 --> 00:46:12,314
Speaker 2: my phone out like a greedy little pig, and I

885
00:46:12,434 --> 00:46:15,634
Speaker 2: just like I inhale like a hundred memes and I

886
00:46:15,674 --> 00:46:17,234
Speaker 2: laughed my head off and I send them to all

887
00:46:17,234 --> 00:46:19,114
Speaker 2: my friends and then I know that's my hit for

888
00:46:19,154 --> 00:46:19,794
Speaker 2: the week.

889
00:46:19,594 --> 00:46:21,354
Speaker 1: And then I just put it back in the box.

890
00:46:21,674 --> 00:46:24,274
Speaker 1: How long is it in this box? Yeah? Every evening?

891
00:46:24,314 --> 00:46:25,674
Speaker 1: Like are you putting it in there? And it's out

892
00:46:25,714 --> 00:46:27,314
Speaker 1: for the night until the next day.

893
00:46:28,034 --> 00:46:29,433
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.

894
00:46:29,434 --> 00:46:31,394
Speaker 1: I oh, no, I know I couldn't.

895
00:46:31,394 --> 00:46:34,994
Speaker 2: I'm going like seven thirty pm until five am.

896
00:46:35,314 --> 00:46:36,393
Speaker 3: Oh I know better than me.

897
00:46:36,634 --> 00:46:37,554
Speaker 2: Have I gone too hard?

898
00:46:37,834 --> 00:46:39,154
Speaker 3: No?

899
00:46:39,234 --> 00:46:42,234
Speaker 1: That sounds that sounds correct. I use my job here

900
00:46:42,274 --> 00:46:44,634
Speaker 1: as an excuse not to do that because things often

901
00:46:44,674 --> 00:46:47,274
Speaker 1: happen late at night as I'm sitting there about an

902
00:46:47,274 --> 00:46:50,754
Speaker 1: hour into TikTok scrolls for this job. I'm doing it

903
00:46:50,834 --> 00:46:51,634
Speaker 1: for you, I know.

904
00:46:51,794 --> 00:46:56,553
Speaker 3: But it's a trap. But it's a trap of the time.

905
00:46:56,594 --> 00:46:59,354
Speaker 3: It's it's yeah, that's right.

906
00:47:01,194 --> 00:47:04,194
Speaker 2: Look, I'm not better than you. I'm just trying something. Okay,

907
00:47:04,234 --> 00:47:06,514
Speaker 2: it's not going well.

908
00:47:05,754 --> 00:47:08,154
Speaker 1: Give it another way, idea. I need to try it.

909
00:47:08,274 --> 00:47:09,314
Speaker 1: I need to do it. Okay.

910
00:47:09,474 --> 00:47:11,754
Speaker 2: Hey, that's it for the week in parenting culture. Thanks

911
00:47:11,754 --> 00:47:13,514
Speaker 2: for joining us, Thanks for clicking on this on a

912
00:47:13,554 --> 00:47:15,834
Speaker 2: Saturday morning. Great to have you with us, Claire, thanks

913
00:47:15,874 --> 00:47:17,554
Speaker 2: for jumping in familiar.

914
00:47:17,394 --> 00:47:19,714
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me guys, Thank.

915
00:47:19,474 --> 00:47:22,194
Speaker 2: You all right, and a huge thanks to our team

916
00:47:22,234 --> 00:47:25,234
Speaker 2: that puts this show together. Have a great week. We'll

917
00:47:25,234 --> 00:47:33,514
Speaker 2: be back next Saturday morning. Bye bye, Mamma Mere acknowledges

918
00:47:33,554 --> 00:47:35,474
Speaker 2: the traditional owners of the land on which we have

919
00:47:35,554 --> 00:47:36,754
Speaker 2: recorded this podcast.