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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on three two one. Hell,

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, what happens?

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Speaker 1: What happens very quick? I've missed you.

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Speaker 3: We've got to get counted down from three and.

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Speaker 1: She counted down fast.

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Speaker 2: I went too fast. I'm sorry. I'm raring to go

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Speaker 2: the Joe Biden. Let's go again right now. This is

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Speaker 2: for me count three two one, Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Monday, the first of July. I'm Holly wayIn right,

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Speaker 2: and before we get into it, I want to welcome

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Speaker 2: all our new subscribers because we've had lots of them

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Speaker 2: in the past week, and I think it might have

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Speaker 2: something to do with our birthday deal, which is still

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Speaker 2: on right now. If you become a Mamma mea subscriber

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Speaker 2: subscription just by using the code out loud Birthday. Thank

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Speaker 2: you and welcome.

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Speaker 3: I'm me Friedman, I'm Jesse Stevens. Out Louders love a deal.

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Speaker 3: I love a deal. It's Cosey. I just great time

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Speaker 3: to become a subscriber and reminder that we have hundreds.

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Speaker 3: backlog episodes that you can listen to that will last

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Speaker 3: go on subscriber episode. There is so much fun.

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Speaker 2: When too much out Loud is never enough. On today's show,

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Speaker 2: decoding the binfire fever dream that is the American presidential

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Speaker 2: race after Friday's debate and why it might all be

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Speaker 2: a woman's fault of course, also the bride rioting over

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Speaker 2: her wedding photos and Australian politicians Wayward Sons have a

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Speaker 2: group chap and it's in a major newspaper. There you

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Speaker 2: but first me a freedman in case you missed it.

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Speaker 1: It's a very big time for France at the moment,

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Speaker 1: particularly Paris. They've got the Olympics coming up in a

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Speaker 1: few weeks. They're having an election that is not looking

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Speaker 1: good for Emmanuel Macron. But the story that we're most

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Speaker 1: interested in here and out Loud is the poop protest.

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Speaker 1: Here's what's happened. We're four weeks out from the Paris

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Speaker 1: Olympics and so excited about Parisians are planning to celebrate

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Speaker 1: or protest by pooping in the Seine. The Sin is

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Speaker 1: the big river that goes through the center of Paris,

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Speaker 1: and it's been illegal to swim there since nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: three due to pollution. It's not a very clean river.

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Speaker 3: It's very brown.

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Speaker 1: No, it's very brown. But while bidding for the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: the French government said they'd clean it up. I think

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Speaker 1: the triathlon and para triathlons are going to involve swimming

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Speaker 1: in the Seine, right, So the Prime Minister, Emmanuel mccau

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Speaker 1: he confirmed that it would cost around two point twenty

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Speaker 1: five billion dollars Australian to clean the river. Parisians weren't

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Speaker 1: happy about that. They said that's too expensive, and they

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Speaker 1: also say we're not happy about the strain that the

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Speaker 1: Games is going to put on our public transport system.

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Speaker 1: People always say that they're all leaving, all organized after

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Speaker 1: it such trolls. After it was cleaned for two billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: they all organized to protest that by poohing in it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm mad about that.

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Speaker 1: And so now they think because they're still e coal

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Speaker 1: I detected at unacceptable levels. So what my court said

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Speaker 1: he was going to do is go for a swim

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Speaker 1: in the scent to prove how clean it was. That

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Speaker 1: was called off on the weekend because of the pooh,

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Speaker 1: And now they're thinking that maybe the triathlon will not

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Speaker 1: have a swimming part.

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Speaker 3: This is why we can't things. It would benefit all

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Speaker 3: Parisians if it was cleaned up. That is a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, but it's an investment. It's been one hundred

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Speaker 3: years since you could swim in it. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 3: going to cost a lot of money. But the idea

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Speaker 3: of swimming near the Eiffel Tower, like, it gets very

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Speaker 3: hot in Paris and there is nowhere to swim, so

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Speaker 3: that could be a lovely thing for everyone. So what's

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Speaker 3: the thinking behind my tax paid dollars have already gone

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Speaker 3: towards cleaning this very dirty river that is still dirty.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go and shit in it. This is

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Speaker 3: everything wrong with humanity.

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Speaker 2: People always get like this before an Olympics. I am

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Speaker 2: old enough to remember, as you would be meya. Just

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Speaker 2: before the Sydney.

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Speaker 1: Olympics, no one was pooing in Sydney High No, but.

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Speaker 2: Sydney people were pissed off. Right after the Olympics, they

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Speaker 2: loved it. In the lead up to the Olympics in Sydney,

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Speaker 2: there was like, it's costing us too much money. There's

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Speaker 2: all this money going into this that should be going

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Speaker 2: into this, this, and this Sydney side is saying I'm leaving.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna rent my house so I don't want to

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Speaker 2: be here. And then it happened and everyone went, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, that was amazing. Everybody loved it.

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Speaker 3: Best Olympics ever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like in the lead up to the Olympics,

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Speaker 2: everyone hates it. And I heard that Paris have been

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Speaker 2: trying to do it differently and like use existing infrastructure

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Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, because that's the only

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Speaker 2: way to do it.

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Speaker 1: This sin would be considered infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I reckon that in a few weeks time,

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Speaker 2: on the other side of the Olympics, all the Parisians

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Speaker 2: who pooped in the sein will be feeling a bit

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Speaker 2: dirty about it, a shamed as I should.

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Speaker 4: The forty sixth President of the United States, Joe Biden

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Speaker 4: for Caloria, and please welcome the forty fifth President of

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Speaker 4: the United States, Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: And if I'm elected I'm going to restore Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade.

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Speaker 6: He's willing to, as we say, rip the baby out

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Speaker 6: of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.

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Speaker 6: Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants.

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Speaker 1: It to happen.

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Speaker 6: And I'm in very good health. I just won two

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Speaker 6: club championships, not even senior, two regular club championships. To

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Speaker 6: do that, you have to be quite smart, and you

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Speaker 6: have to be able to hit the ball a long way.

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Speaker 6: And I do it. He doesn't do it. He can't

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Speaker 6: hit a ball fifty yards. He challenged me to a

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Speaker 6: golf match. He can't hit a ball fifty yards.

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Speaker 5: We're able to make every single solitary person eligible for

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Speaker 5: what I've been able to do with the with the COVID,

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Speaker 5: I excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to

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Speaker 5: do with Look if we finally beat Medicare, and I'm

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Speaker 5: going to continue to move until we get the total

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Speaker 5: ban on the total initiative relative to what we're going

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Speaker 5: to do with more border patrol and more asylum off.

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Speaker 6: President Trump, I really don't know what he said at

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Speaker 6: the end of this. I don't think he knows what

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Speaker 6: he said either.

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Speaker 4: Most Americans, most overwhelming majority, do not want to see

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Speaker 4: these two running against each other, and America's political system

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Speaker 4: could not come up with a better choice than a

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Speaker 4: rerun of what happened four years ago.

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Speaker 3: On Friday, Australian time, US President Joe Biden and former

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Speaker 3: US President Donald Trump engaged in their first political debate

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Speaker 3: of the twenty twenty four election campaign, with four months

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Speaker 3: to go before Americans head to the polls. I'm spiraling.

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Speaker 1: Very much.

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Speaker 3: The presidential debate is meant to showcase policy ideas and

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Speaker 3: each candidate's vision for their presidency. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: to describe what happened last week. Eighty one year old

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Speaker 3: Biden was barely coherent. He lost his train of thought.

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Speaker 3: His voice was quiet and hoarse, and he looked completely

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Speaker 3: out of his depth. He looked terrified, and he looked

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Speaker 3: quite pale. He didn't look well and.

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Speaker 1: In the split screen because they had quite strict conditions,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats established all the conditions for this debate, including

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Speaker 1: that the other person's microphone would be switched off when

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Speaker 1: each person was speaking, right, because Trump just interrupts and

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Speaker 1: takes over and won't shut up. So they did that

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Speaker 1: there was also no audience because two elections go. When

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Speaker 1: he was debating Hillary Clinton, he would do all sorts

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Speaker 1: of shenanigans, like he brought into the audience to sit

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Speaker 1: in the front row the women who had accused Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton of sexually assaulting them. The Democrats also decided they

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Speaker 1: wanted it to be much earlier. There's never been a

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Speaker 1: presidential debate this early, usually within the November election. The

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Speaker 1: US elections always at the same time. The debates are

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Speaker 1: usually in September.

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Speaker 3: I thought you met earlier in the day because Joe Biden, Yeah, hired.

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Speaker 1: Also that but in the split screen, so they showed

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Speaker 1: the face of the person who wasn't talking, and in

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Speaker 1: every split screen when he wasn't speaking, Biden had his

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Speaker 1: mouth sort of a little bit open, and he was

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Speaker 1: sort of squinting and just looking really confused.

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Speaker 3: She looked like shocked or yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He'd completely disoriented.

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Speaker 3: He didn't have energy. He looked completely out of his depth,

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Speaker 3: so much so that a White House official told outlets

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Speaker 3: that Biden had a cold, seemingly as a way of

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Speaker 3: explaining his performance. Then there was seventy eight year old Trump,

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Speaker 3: a convicted felon on thirty four counts only weeks ago

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Speaker 3: found guilty of a scheme to illegally influence the twenty

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Speaker 3: sixteen election through a hush money payment to a porn

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Speaker 3: actor who says the two had sex. Trump was more

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Speaker 3: restrained than we've seen him in the past, but he

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Speaker 3: predictably routinely lied, including stating that Biden is, as you heard,

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Speaker 3: willing to rip the baby out of the womb in

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Speaker 3: the nine month and kill the baby. As you heard

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Speaker 3: there too. There are parts of this debate that sounded

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Speaker 3: more like a bad reality TV show or a skit

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Speaker 3: on Saturday Night Live than a real high stakes political exercise.

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Speaker 3: There's heaps to unpack. The general consensus, In fact, I

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Speaker 3: have heard no other take other than this is that

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Speaker 3: Biden needs to step aside. Part of being the president

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Speaker 3: is instilling confidence in the nation that you are fit

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Speaker 3: and competent as a leader. And we know the US

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Speaker 3: economy is struggling horrific international conflicts. No one would trust

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Speaker 3: Biden with that job at the moment. Maya, how do

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Speaker 3: you think this left people feeling? What was the general mood?

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Speaker 3: I don't think that people are shocked, but this was

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Speaker 3: worst case scenario.

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Speaker 2: People are shocked.

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Speaker 1: People were shocked. So Biden had one job, and that

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Speaker 1: is to disprove what people have been saying for several

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Speaker 1: years now that he's too old to run and that

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Speaker 1: he's not up to it. That was his only job.

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Speaker 1: So all the terms of the debate, which was set

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Speaker 1: by the Democrats, were designed to help him. Essentially, all

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Speaker 1: Trump had to do is to really kind of not

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Speaker 1: throw his own feces at the wall, and true, that's

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Speaker 1: all he had to do.

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Speaker 3: Will appear a little bit restrained. That's his achilles heel,

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Speaker 3: and then you've got Biden's achilles heel. And they both

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Speaker 3: had two different jobs.

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Speaker 1: So the bar for both candidates, this is what's so

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Speaker 1: deeply depressing, was so low, Like it was so low,

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Speaker 1: and neither of them cleared it. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: Biden stumbled so badly and it was so much worse

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Speaker 1: than anyone could have possibly ever imagined. As you say, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: there was no one in the Democratic Party really, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, Obama and a few people have come out

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Speaker 1: and sort of tried to say he had a bad night,

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Speaker 1: he had a bad debate. What it takes to win

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Speaker 1: an election is a very different set of skills to

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Speaker 1: what it takes to actually be the president. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people say that that's why Hillary Clinton lost because

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Speaker 1: she's terrible at campaigning, but she would have been an

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Speaker 1: amazing president. Trump is very good at campaigning, and if

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Speaker 1: you say very good, means by getting a lot of

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Speaker 1: attention in aging people. Because remember, the whole thing about

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Speaker 1: the American political system is because voting isn't compulsory, you

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Speaker 1: have to make people so interested and so passionately for

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Speaker 1: you that they will go and vote and take time

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Speaker 1: out of their day, their job, their family, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: and standing a long line and vote. They've got to

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Speaker 1: vote for something or really against something.

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Speaker 2: And everyone who's vaguely progressive or left leaning was very

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Speaker 2: much ready to vote against Trump, and let's face it,

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Speaker 2: they probably still will be. But all of those people

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Speaker 2: were swallowing what had been being fed to them for

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Speaker 2: a long time, which is like, it's nonsense, all these

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Speaker 2: fears about Joe, Like you know, because this dialogue has

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Speaker 2: been going on for a long time, and you say me,

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Speaker 2: here but a few years. But Biden's camp and Biden's

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Speaker 2: spin doctors and Biden's surrogates and everyone who is hoping

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Speaker 2: that Donald Trump loses the election, has been saying no, no,

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Speaker 2: he's great, it's okay, you know, like he's still sharp.

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Speaker 2: I just find it hard to watch, Like I couldn't

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Speaker 2: even watch clips because I actually feel just desperately sorry

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Speaker 2: for him, even though I know it's all his fault.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to scond career.

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Speaker 2: Biden's fault, yes, but you've got to remember too that

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Speaker 2: that was a version of Biden who had spent a

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Speaker 2: week locked away and prepped for that debate right whereas

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Speaker 2: Trump had campaigned up until the last minute. He knows

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Speaker 2: exactly that this is the criticism aimed at him, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of the things I've read have said the

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Speaker 2: worst performance you can give in a public debate is

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Speaker 2: one that confirms everybody's fears. So, as you said me,

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Speaker 2: he had one job, which was to allay everybody's fears,

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Speaker 2: and he did exactly the opposite. And it was so

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Speaker 2: sad to watch because this is a very serious time,

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Speaker 2: Like it is always a very serious time, but this

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Speaker 2: is a very serious time. These are not serious people,

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Speaker 2: Like if we're supposed to believe what we've been being

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Speaker 2: told by the democratic side of politics for a very

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Speaker 2: long time, which is that Donald Trump is an existential

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Speaker 2: threat to everything. And I tend to believe in that.

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Speaker 2: I think he's one of the most dangerous about him

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Speaker 2: because he stands for nothing except himself, and he will

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Speaker 2: make deals with and align himself with the most dangerous

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Speaker 2: people in the world if they will pump up his tires.

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Speaker 2: So it is an existential threat, and yet it's just

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Speaker 2: being allowed to devolve into a banter about golf.

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Speaker 1: The absolute shock and horror which quickly curdled in me

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Speaker 1: to fury about a country that I don't even live in,

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Speaker 1: is how could it come to this? How could in

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Speaker 1: a country the size of America. These are the two choices.

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Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty four, that's what America is putting up.

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Speaker 3: It says a lot about power structures. I think that

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Speaker 3: it's a seventy eight year old white man and an

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Speaker 3: eighty one year old white man.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what? It also says a lot about

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Speaker 1: the utter, utter hubris of And I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: talk about Joe Biden here, someone who won't be told,

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Speaker 1: who has no self awareness. I believe that he is

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Speaker 1: a patriot. He cares about his country, he cares about America,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that he can't see that he is

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Speaker 1: going to lose this election in the most massive way.

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Speaker 1: The fact that his ego will not allow him to

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Speaker 1: step aside. Even though when he ran the first time

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Speaker 1: he said I'm going to be a bridging president. He

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Speaker 1: essentially said I'm not going to run for a second term.

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Speaker 1: So somewhere along the way around chose you.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to understand though, To understand that is

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Speaker 2: that in the normal order of things, he would definitely

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Speaker 2: run for a second term. That's how it works, right.

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Speaker 2: You are allowed to serve two terms and no more

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Speaker 2: so most people who go and sit in that presidential

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Speaker 2: chair of thinking I'm going to do two terms. Of

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Speaker 2: course Donald Trump, but his age, his health or those things,

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Speaker 2: as you say, I have indicated that he was not

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Speaker 2: going to do that, and yet he chose to do that.

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Speaker 3: The nature of aging is also an erosion of self awareness.

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Speaker 3: So part of me does have a lot of empathy

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Speaker 3: for Joe Biden, who has been a working politician. I

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Speaker 3: don't for more than fifty years. Do you know anyone

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Speaker 3: who is aging? If you know people who are aging,

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Speaker 3: I am thinking of someone in my life who wanted

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Speaker 3: to drive and he could no longer drive, and we

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Speaker 3: would hide the keys and we would say, you can

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Speaker 3: no longer drive. This is like widely experience.

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Speaker 2: Those people driving.

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Speaker 3: Very rarely do they go, You're right, I can't drive anymore.

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Speaker 1: So I agree with you, Jesse. So what do you

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Speaker 1: do the people around you?

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Speaker 3: That love people around you?

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Speaker 1: Hence Jill Biden.

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Speaker 3: We will get to Jill Biden.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, we will get to Jill Biden.

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Speaker 2: To Jill Biden.

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Speaker 3: There's the Democratic Party that I think that they have

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Speaker 3: a lot to answer for. But a slight defense of

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden is that I think as a president he

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Speaker 3: can probably do the job because there are people around

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Speaker 3: him who help them. Probably he has thember in relations.

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Speaker 1: Literally just so what you're saying, the machine of government

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Speaker 1: keeps going and that there are people around.

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Speaker 3: And I'm also worried that in this incredibly in depth

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Speaker 3: fair criticism of Joe Biden, we're letting Trump off scott free.

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Speaker 3: And he cried and he's well, it's also Donald Trump's right.

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Speaker 3: And this also says something about the culture that we

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Speaker 3: find ourselves in, which is style over substance. And we

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Speaker 3: had someone who at least has some substance, has some chops,

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Speaker 3: has made some good.

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Speaker 1: Decisions for the job. You step aside for the good

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Speaker 1: of your party, for the good of your country, for

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Speaker 1: the good of democracy.

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Speaker 3: Just a very complicated moment.

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Speaker 1: Now, Jill Biden, go okay out loud as We had

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Speaker 1: a big fight about this, because the first thing I

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Speaker 1: said when we were in the planning meeting this morning

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Speaker 1: was I'm sorry angry at Jill Biden. Holly said, I.

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Speaker 2: Said, why do you always find a woman to blame

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Speaker 2: for a man's problems?

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Speaker 1: Is not Jill Biden's fast.

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Speaker 2: This has got nothing to freaking do with Jill Biden.

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Speaker 2: There isn't a woman in the world who's been married

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Speaker 2: to a man for forty five years who would not

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Speaker 2: publicly defend them in that situation. What they're saying to

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Speaker 2: each other right now locked away in Camp David, and

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Speaker 2: this might all change in the next twenty four hours.

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Speaker 2: Everybody thinks it's very unlikely, despite the unprecedented push for

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Speaker 2: Biden to decide that he should step down what she

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Speaker 2: says to him in private. We have no idea as

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Speaker 2: if there is a wife in the world who would

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Speaker 2: come out of that and tell the world media he

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Speaker 2: was shit.

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Speaker 1: I'm not asking Jill to tell the world's media. I'm

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Speaker 1: really not, and I'm going to just take down all

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Speaker 1: your arguments one by one. No, My point is this

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Speaker 1: conversation is not new. It's at boiling point now and

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Speaker 1: at crisis point, panic point, but it's not new. People

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Speaker 1: have been talking about this for several years, and in

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Speaker 1: all the coverage about whether he would step aside or not,

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Speaker 1: everybody has been unanimous in the fact that the only

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Speaker 1: person who could convince him to do that is Jill Biden.

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Speaker 1: That's what everybody said, right. So back to what happened

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Speaker 1: on the debate. The reason I'm agree with Jill Biden

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Speaker 1: is that I think Joe Biden is a good man.

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Speaker 1: I honestly do. How could you let someone that you

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Speaker 1: love go into that situation and humiliate themselves like that

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Speaker 1: and whole you say, well, he's got advisors, he's.

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Speaker 3: Got this man.

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Speaker 2: Also, although you don't control the people that you love,

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Speaker 2: I see this playing out in much smaller ways, like

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Speaker 2: Jesse's example with the car Keys all the time. Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: despite appearances, it's not like he is literally a baby.

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Speaker 1: Well after the debate, there were these watch parties, and

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Speaker 1: everyone knew, like everyone was panicking through the debate for

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Speaker 1: un minutes, so everyone knew it had been a disaster,

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Speaker 1: so they went into crisis mode. He appeared at some

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Speaker 1: watch parties. Here's a little clip of Jill Biden introducing

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Speaker 1: the crowd to Joe and welcoming Joe to this watch party.

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Speaker 1: I can't thank you all enough for staying and for

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Speaker 1: being here and for all your support. Joe, you did

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Speaker 1: such a great job. You answered every question you knew

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Speaker 1: all the Let me ask the crowd, what did Trump

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Speaker 1: do back to you saying he's not a child? That

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Speaker 1: is literally how I talk to Luna when she can clap,

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Speaker 1: And my.

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Speaker 2: Point is literally again this is back to a public moment.

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Speaker 2: What else is she going to do?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, first of all, she should have had this

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Speaker 1: conversation with him a long time ago, because to.

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Speaker 2: Her, she probably is you have no idea what she's

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Speaker 2: saying to him.

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Speaker 1: So all the coverage in the reporting I've read about

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Speaker 1: it is that if she decides that he shouldn't do it,

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Speaker 1: he won't do it, which is also alarming, and she

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Speaker 1: very much believes, well it's reported across the I mean

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Speaker 1: it could be.

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Speaker 2: Here's a much bigger picture here, which is that the

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Speaker 2: Democrats have a big problem on their hands because if

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Speaker 2: not Joe, then who right And the problem with that

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Speaker 2: is that there is a woman standing right next to

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who he chose to be his vice president

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Speaker 2: at the last election, who is the literal choice if

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Speaker 2: it's not him, and nobody wants her now that.

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Speaker 1: Other issue, So they're like, what do we do with

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Speaker 1: It's not the issue. The issue is nobody wants to

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Speaker 1: because I mean, he did save America from another Trump presidency,

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Speaker 1: right and a second term, So everyone in his party

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Speaker 1: feels very indebted to him. He is a good man,

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Speaker 1: They are loyal. Nobody wants to humiliate him. So everyone

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Speaker 1: is basically not wanting to topple him because the indignity

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Speaker 1: of that. It's not like in Australia where it's just

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Speaker 1: like you knife your leader every few weeks. It would

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Speaker 1: be a terrible, terrible Also, it's no one, So it's

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Speaker 1: this man's hubris and that people around him. I don't

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Speaker 1: believe for a second if Jill Biden and the people

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Speaker 1: around him were telling him step down, that he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: step down.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that. I just think that responsibility doesn't

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Speaker 3: sit on Jill Biden's shoulders.

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Speaker 1: She's the only one that doesn't work for him, So

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Speaker 1: yes it does.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's not true. Like, think about a CEO.

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Speaker 3: I keep thinking about this as a business, right, and

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Speaker 3: you have a CEO who is going out and representing

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Speaker 3: your company. And let's remember that the man that we saw,

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden is like he's sitting down with Benjamin Nette

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Speaker 3: Yahoo about an international conflict the stakes. Well, that's mortifying

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Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin, like these are really really important diplomatic conversations

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Speaker 3: that need to happen, and he's not capable of it.

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Speaker 3: We all agree, Trump, I don't necessarily agree that he's

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Speaker 3: not capable of it.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you have to have hard conversations with people

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Speaker 1: you love. And to be clear, I blame Biden. But

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Speaker 1: as you say, when you get to a certain age

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Speaker 1: and you have cognitive decline, which he clearly does, the

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Speaker 1: people around you sometimes have to help you.

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Speaker 2: See sometimes you won't listen to them.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but if this were a CEO, the business, the structure,

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Speaker 3: the welfare of that business means that people inside it

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Speaker 3: need to have honest conversations with the CEO about their capacity.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't put it on the CEO's of course, to

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Speaker 3: say to them, oh, you're not really being completely coherent.

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Speaker 1: Everyone absolutely is not because everybody else works for you.

439
00:21:46,847 --> 00:21:50,927
Speaker 1: But but you can stay to your partner.

440
00:21:50,967 --> 00:21:55,047
Speaker 2: Since that debate finished on Friday, this is all anybody's

441
00:21:55,087 --> 00:21:57,847
Speaker 2: been talking about. If you really believe that there isn't

442
00:21:57,847 --> 00:22:00,287
Speaker 2: a single person in the Democratic Party who isn't putting

443
00:22:00,287 --> 00:22:03,767
Speaker 2: pressure on Joe Biden to resign as of now. But

444
00:22:03,847 --> 00:22:06,847
Speaker 2: it's a very complicated situation. The idea that he just

445
00:22:06,887 --> 00:22:09,007
Speaker 2: needs his wife to tell him off, pat him on

446
00:22:09,047 --> 00:22:10,967
Speaker 2: the head, and send him off to his armchair watch

447
00:22:11,047 --> 00:22:13,407
Speaker 2: daytime TV is nonsense.

448
00:22:13,647 --> 00:22:16,487
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's intervention. That intervention needs to be led

449
00:22:16,487 --> 00:22:16,927
Speaker 1: by Jill.

450
00:22:16,807 --> 00:22:19,447
Speaker 2: B No, because there are options, so it might well

451
00:22:19,487 --> 00:22:21,207
Speaker 2: be being led by her, right.

452
00:22:21,567 --> 00:22:24,887
Speaker 3: There are options that aren't Joe Biden having come to

453
00:22:25,007 --> 00:22:27,367
Speaker 3: Jesus moment where he steps down. Like, there's also a

454
00:22:27,447 --> 00:22:30,327
Speaker 3: situation in which the Democratic Party, who is.

455
00:22:30,367 --> 00:22:32,727
Speaker 1: No, they can't, they won't do it.

456
00:22:31,607 --> 00:22:35,567
Speaker 2: They could, So let's get onto that, right if they

457
00:22:35,607 --> 00:22:38,567
Speaker 2: did do what everybody is urging them to do right now,

458
00:22:38,647 --> 00:22:41,207
Speaker 2: which is whether it's because Jill has a quiet word,

459
00:22:41,287 --> 00:22:44,127
Speaker 2: or whether it's because his loyal advisors go and say,

460
00:22:44,167 --> 00:22:46,327
Speaker 2: which is a terrifying thing to do, because if you're

461
00:22:46,407 --> 00:22:49,087
Speaker 2: one of the people who says to him after that, mate,

462
00:22:49,127 --> 00:22:51,407
Speaker 2: you have to go. You're not going to keep working

463
00:22:51,447 --> 00:22:53,687
Speaker 2: for him, correct because he will always remember that. The

464
00:22:53,767 --> 00:22:55,807
Speaker 2: whole thing is if they do, they are thrown into

465
00:22:55,887 --> 00:22:57,167
Speaker 2: unprecedented chaos.

466
00:22:57,247 --> 00:22:57,487
Speaker 4: Right.

467
00:22:57,807 --> 00:23:00,327
Speaker 2: What everyone's saying is the path that could happen now

468
00:23:00,767 --> 00:23:03,207
Speaker 2: is that the convention, which is in August, they could

469
00:23:03,287 --> 00:23:07,607
Speaker 2: choose to throw the nomination open again and reallocate it now.

470
00:23:07,647 --> 00:23:10,247
Speaker 2: Harris is obviously, as I said before, for Kamala Harris

471
00:23:10,647 --> 00:23:13,567
Speaker 2: is the vice president. She is the obvious choice, and

472
00:23:13,687 --> 00:23:16,807
Speaker 2: if Biden agreed to step down and endorsed her, she

473
00:23:16,887 --> 00:23:19,847
Speaker 2: would be the choice. But what I'm interested in is

474
00:23:19,887 --> 00:23:23,247
Speaker 2: why nobody wants that to happen. Why all the good

475
00:23:23,327 --> 00:23:26,167
Speaker 2: will that went towards Kamala Harris. Will remember the day

476
00:23:26,207 --> 00:23:28,887
Speaker 2: of the inauguration, when the world was so energized and

477
00:23:28,927 --> 00:23:31,647
Speaker 2: excited to see a woman, relatively young, woman of color

478
00:23:32,287 --> 00:23:34,367
Speaker 2: being given one of the highest offices in the land.

479
00:23:34,567 --> 00:23:37,247
Speaker 2: That good will seems to have entirely dried up. So

480
00:23:37,447 --> 00:23:40,327
Speaker 2: now when even these very knowledgeable Democrats, of whom there

481
00:23:40,327 --> 00:23:43,167
Speaker 2: are many, are talking about options, they're not saying Harris,

482
00:23:43,207 --> 00:23:45,327
Speaker 2: They're saying all these other names that are out there.

483
00:23:45,607 --> 00:23:47,847
Speaker 2: And in order to get any of those people, they're

484
00:23:47,887 --> 00:23:51,927
Speaker 2: people like Gavin Newsome, people like Gretchen Whim, they would

485
00:23:51,927 --> 00:23:55,167
Speaker 2: have such a long way to get to to anything

486
00:23:55,247 --> 00:23:57,527
Speaker 2: like the brand recognition. Plus all the money that's already

487
00:23:57,567 --> 00:24:00,327
Speaker 2: been raised has been raised for Biden Harris. The system

488
00:24:00,367 --> 00:24:02,527
Speaker 2: isn't set up for this level of chaos, so it

489
00:24:02,567 --> 00:24:06,087
Speaker 2: would be an intensely bold move. And now the Democrats

490
00:24:06,127 --> 00:24:08,727
Speaker 2: are sitting there wrestling with do we throw ourselves into

491
00:24:08,767 --> 00:24:11,687
Speaker 2: that level of chaos and maybe lose, or do we

492
00:24:11,767 --> 00:24:13,727
Speaker 2: stick with the plan that we've got and lose.

493
00:24:14,007 --> 00:24:16,447
Speaker 1: Exactly The reason I think that's a good idea is

494
00:24:16,487 --> 00:24:19,887
Speaker 1: if you look at what elections, particularly in America, have become,

495
00:24:20,087 --> 00:24:24,127
Speaker 1: which is essentially reality shows thanks to John Trump. It's exciting.

496
00:24:24,527 --> 00:24:27,687
Speaker 1: So suddenly people are going to be galvanized. There's going

497
00:24:27,767 --> 00:24:29,647
Speaker 1: to be someone new because remember going back to the

498
00:24:29,647 --> 00:24:31,927
Speaker 1: part where people have to be excited. So even if

499
00:24:32,007 --> 00:24:35,447
Speaker 1: Joe Biden had got up and been okay, or even good.

500
00:24:36,327 --> 00:24:39,327
Speaker 1: How excited are you about going to the polls? Like,

501
00:24:39,367 --> 00:24:42,087
Speaker 1: it's not like voting for the first female president or

502
00:24:42,127 --> 00:24:46,007
Speaker 1: the first African American president or someone who is younger

503
00:24:46,047 --> 00:24:48,007
Speaker 1: and seems like they've got a vision.

504
00:24:47,847 --> 00:24:52,527
Speaker 3: Seen how that a new generation. Also, it hands Trump

505
00:24:52,767 --> 00:24:55,727
Speaker 3: an argument, which is this party is completely unstable, and

506
00:24:55,767 --> 00:24:58,127
Speaker 3: we've seen that play out in Australian politics. So I

507
00:24:58,127 --> 00:25:01,487
Speaker 3: think that the keeping Joe Yes, there's an element of

508
00:25:01,887 --> 00:25:04,647
Speaker 3: why won't he step down, but it's also a political strategy,

509
00:25:04,687 --> 00:25:07,927
Speaker 3: which is he was the president that toppled Trump. Giving

510
00:25:07,927 --> 00:25:12,687
Speaker 3: it to someone else that party look chaotic, which isn't something.

511
00:25:12,767 --> 00:25:14,607
Speaker 2: But at this point I agree with me. I think

512
00:25:14,607 --> 00:25:17,447
Speaker 2: it would actually be really energizing. But I am still

513
00:25:17,607 --> 00:25:19,727
Speaker 2: obsessed with why not Harrish?

514
00:25:19,807 --> 00:25:21,527
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll get to that one second. But all Trump

515
00:25:21,607 --> 00:25:24,047
Speaker 1: wants is for them to keep Biden. Right. He knows

516
00:25:23,887 --> 00:25:26,167
Speaker 1: he can pretty much just go on holidays between now

517
00:25:26,167 --> 00:25:28,927
Speaker 1: and November and he will romp it in. You know,

518
00:25:28,967 --> 00:25:31,047
Speaker 1: I've been talking to people who say they're not you know,

519
00:25:31,087 --> 00:25:33,807
Speaker 1: Democratic voters who are so angry that the fact that

520
00:25:33,847 --> 00:25:37,007
Speaker 1: the system has brought us to this point and that

521
00:25:37,047 --> 00:25:41,247
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party have been so lax in providing regeneration,

522
00:25:41,527 --> 00:25:44,567
Speaker 1: a fresh start and thinking this through that they're saying

523
00:25:44,567 --> 00:25:48,367
Speaker 1: they're not going to vote as a protest now, Kamala Harris,

524
00:25:48,607 --> 00:25:52,847
Speaker 1: I don't know why her approval is so low, and

525
00:25:52,927 --> 00:25:56,527
Speaker 1: I don't know why she has such poor polling, because

526
00:25:56,807 --> 00:26:00,247
Speaker 1: she's been widely criticized for sort of not carving out

527
00:26:00,287 --> 00:26:03,767
Speaker 1: her own role. So she's widely understood and recognized and

528
00:26:03,807 --> 00:26:08,327
Speaker 1: acknowledged to have done a poor job at being vice president.

529
00:26:08,367 --> 00:26:10,407
Speaker 1: Now I can't tell you that I know what she

530
00:26:10,487 --> 00:26:13,647
Speaker 1: should have done and what Joe Biden did so well

531
00:26:13,687 --> 00:26:16,367
Speaker 1: apparently as vice president, or Mike Pence did so well

532
00:26:16,407 --> 00:26:19,247
Speaker 1: as vice president, or Al Gore did so well as

533
00:26:19,287 --> 00:26:21,367
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's vice president. I don't know.

534
00:26:21,887 --> 00:26:23,727
Speaker 2: I think it's a very difficult job because what you

535
00:26:23,807 --> 00:26:26,847
Speaker 2: have to do is you have to attract just enough attention,

536
00:26:26,927 --> 00:26:29,607
Speaker 2: but not too much attention. You have to be interesting

537
00:26:29,727 --> 00:26:33,207
Speaker 2: enough that you'll get press, but not overwhelm or override

538
00:26:33,207 --> 00:26:35,327
Speaker 2: the press that the president wants, although you might imagine

539
00:26:35,327 --> 00:26:37,487
Speaker 2: at the moment that the president probably wants less price

540
00:26:37,887 --> 00:26:40,327
Speaker 2: and so it's a very difficult dance. And I have

541
00:26:40,487 --> 00:26:43,807
Speaker 2: heard some commentary that she hasn't managed to nail that

542
00:26:43,887 --> 00:26:45,767
Speaker 2: dance in quite the way that say that Biden and

543
00:26:45,767 --> 00:26:49,807
Speaker 2: Obama bromance did. But it is also very hard to

544
00:26:49,847 --> 00:26:52,207
Speaker 2: not think that it can't have anything to do with

545
00:26:52,247 --> 00:26:53,647
Speaker 2: the fact that she is a woman.

546
00:26:53,487 --> 00:26:56,327
Speaker 3: But that one commentary I've been reading too is that

547
00:26:56,567 --> 00:27:00,087
Speaker 3: she's a woman of color, and the Democrats are at

548
00:27:00,127 --> 00:27:02,527
Speaker 3: a point now where they're like, will people not vote

549
00:27:02,527 --> 00:27:05,727
Speaker 3: for her because she's a woman of color? Maybe either way,

550
00:27:06,127 --> 00:27:08,447
Speaker 3: if they won't vote for her, they won't vote for her,

551
00:27:08,487 --> 00:27:11,167
Speaker 3: and if the future of democracy is hinging on this moment,

552
00:27:11,567 --> 00:27:13,367
Speaker 3: which is incredibly depressed, And.

553
00:27:13,367 --> 00:27:15,687
Speaker 2: Then they're saying that that presents the Democrats with a

554
00:27:15,767 --> 00:27:18,407
Speaker 2: very difficult problem because they have to go around Harris

555
00:27:18,447 --> 00:27:20,287
Speaker 2: to get a new nominee, and that's going to tear

556
00:27:20,327 --> 00:27:20,887
Speaker 2: the party.

557
00:27:20,687 --> 00:27:23,167
Speaker 1: Apart as well. So Biden has two choices. Really, he

558
00:27:23,207 --> 00:27:25,287
Speaker 1: can just keep going and double down, which is what

559
00:27:25,327 --> 00:27:26,847
Speaker 1: a lot of people think he's going to do, which

560
00:27:26,927 --> 00:27:30,207
Speaker 1: is shocking. He actually has three choices because he can

561
00:27:30,287 --> 00:27:34,047
Speaker 1: endorse Kamala Harris, which means it won't be contested, she'll

562
00:27:34,127 --> 00:27:36,687
Speaker 1: just become the new leader and she will run for president,

563
00:27:37,527 --> 00:27:40,327
Speaker 1: or he has a hard conversation with Kamala Harris and says,

564
00:27:40,327 --> 00:27:42,687
Speaker 1: I'm for the good of the country, I'm stepping down

565
00:27:42,727 --> 00:27:45,007
Speaker 1: and I'm not endorsing you. I'm throwing it open, and

566
00:27:45,087 --> 00:27:46,807
Speaker 1: she then has to throw her hat in the ring

567
00:27:47,007 --> 00:27:49,847
Speaker 1: with some of these other contenders. Over the next seven weeks,

568
00:27:49,887 --> 00:27:52,167
Speaker 1: they go on CNN and make their case and sort

569
00:27:52,207 --> 00:27:54,727
Speaker 1: of act presidential, and then at the convention in seven

570
00:27:54,767 --> 00:27:57,847
Speaker 1: weeks in August, they vote for who they which should

571
00:27:57,847 --> 00:27:59,087
Speaker 1: go to the election.

572
00:27:59,407 --> 00:28:01,447
Speaker 3: Historically, actually happened to Joe Biden because he was the

573
00:28:01,487 --> 00:28:03,967
Speaker 3: vice president of Barack Obama and it was assumed that

574
00:28:03,967 --> 00:28:05,367
Speaker 3: he would be the candidate, and then of course it

575
00:28:05,447 --> 00:28:08,967
Speaker 3: was actually Hillary Clinton after him, So there is precedent

576
00:28:09,007 --> 00:28:11,127
Speaker 3: for that happening. I have two quick questions. Are they

577
00:28:11,167 --> 00:28:12,647
Speaker 3: going to be more presidential debates?

578
00:28:12,767 --> 00:28:14,567
Speaker 2: Well, there's meant to be another one in September, but

579
00:28:14,607 --> 00:28:17,487
Speaker 2: everyone thinks it won't happen unless, of course, there is

580
00:28:17,527 --> 00:28:18,287
Speaker 2: a new candidate.

581
00:28:18,807 --> 00:28:21,647
Speaker 3: And my second question is, Maya, what do you think

582
00:28:21,687 --> 00:28:22,287
Speaker 3: they should do.

583
00:28:22,527 --> 00:28:24,247
Speaker 1: I think they should throw it open for the good

584
00:28:24,287 --> 00:28:27,727
Speaker 1: of the country. I was so disheartened to hear that. Oh,

585
00:28:27,887 --> 00:28:29,967
Speaker 1: but you know, no one wants to have the hard

586
00:28:29,967 --> 00:28:33,647
Speaker 1: conversation with Joe, which is just awful. If you love

587
00:28:33,727 --> 00:28:35,647
Speaker 1: him and you care about him, either as someone who

588
00:28:35,647 --> 00:28:38,447
Speaker 1: works for him or someone in his family, how can

589
00:28:38,487 --> 00:28:42,047
Speaker 1: you want that? Humil's true.

590
00:28:42,087 --> 00:28:45,527
Speaker 2: I've heard very senior Democrats openly saying that they think

591
00:28:45,527 --> 00:28:47,367
Speaker 2: he should step down for the first time ever. Yeah,

592
00:28:47,367 --> 00:28:49,047
Speaker 2: so it's not like this is not getting to him.

593
00:28:49,087 --> 00:28:50,687
Speaker 1: Well, I hope not. I hope it's getting to him.

594
00:28:50,967 --> 00:28:54,967
Speaker 1: I think that they should definitely throw it open because

595
00:28:54,967 --> 00:28:57,487
Speaker 1: I think people are going, you know, wetting their parts

596
00:28:57,527 --> 00:29:00,767
Speaker 1: about it being unprecedented and chaos if he was sick

597
00:29:01,007 --> 00:29:03,687
Speaker 1: and he had to step down for health reasons, which

598
00:29:03,727 --> 00:29:06,047
Speaker 1: could not like they just go, oh, well, Trump's going

599
00:29:06,127 --> 00:29:08,247
Speaker 1: to be president. We can't think of what to do next.

600
00:29:08,807 --> 00:29:11,767
Speaker 1: The part in the system would all work, and they

601
00:29:11,847 --> 00:29:15,527
Speaker 1: should be sending the best possible candidate, one who can

602
00:29:15,567 --> 00:29:18,727
Speaker 1: make the case for generational change and not have people

603
00:29:19,047 --> 00:29:22,127
Speaker 1: choosing between two people who are unfit for the job.

604
00:29:22,967 --> 00:29:25,287
Speaker 6: And I'm in very good health. I just won two

605
00:29:25,327 --> 00:29:28,887
Speaker 6: club championships, not even senior, two regular club championships. To

606
00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:31,327
Speaker 6: do that, you have to be quite smart.

607
00:29:31,487 --> 00:29:36,487
Speaker 5: We're able to make every single solitary person eligible for

608
00:29:36,607 --> 00:29:40,247
Speaker 5: what I've been able to do with the COVID I

609
00:29:40,247 --> 00:29:40,927
Speaker 5: excuse me with.

610
00:29:42,047 --> 00:29:48,607
Speaker 1: What Here's a life lesson for free brides are a lot.

611
00:29:49,567 --> 00:29:51,887
Speaker 1: There's a bride who's gone vile. I'm going to tell

612
00:29:51,887 --> 00:29:54,167
Speaker 1: you a story and try to follow it. I've read

613
00:29:54,247 --> 00:29:57,047
Speaker 1: up on this, so you don't have to. She's an

614
00:29:57,087 --> 00:30:01,407
Speaker 1: American woman called Alexandra J. Conda, and she is at

615
00:30:01,407 --> 00:30:04,127
Speaker 1: the center of what has become known as the Cpia

616
00:30:04,367 --> 00:30:09,487
Speaker 1: bride saga. It all started when she got married on

617
00:30:09,527 --> 00:30:12,567
Speaker 1: an overcast day and she didn't like the way her

618
00:30:12,607 --> 00:30:15,847
Speaker 1: photos looked. She said, her skin looked pale and it

619
00:30:15,847 --> 00:30:19,567
Speaker 1: didn't look like her. So she asked the photographer for

620
00:30:19,607 --> 00:30:23,847
Speaker 1: the original images and wanted to re edit them herself.

621
00:30:24,567 --> 00:30:27,527
Speaker 1: And she said that the way they had been retouched

622
00:30:27,527 --> 00:30:32,047
Speaker 1: and filtered by the photographer was not acceptable and she

623
00:30:32,127 --> 00:30:34,327
Speaker 1: was going to do a better job. Now, all of

624
00:30:34,367 --> 00:30:37,087
Speaker 1: these could have happened behind the scenes, but why would it.

625
00:30:37,087 --> 00:30:40,287
Speaker 1: It of course played out on TikTok. So she made

626
00:30:40,367 --> 00:30:44,127
Speaker 1: a long series of tiktoks. Here's a little bit of them.

627
00:30:44,367 --> 00:30:47,247
Speaker 7: Imagine being almost eight thousand dollars for a wedding photographer,

628
00:30:47,487 --> 00:30:48,847
Speaker 7: and when you raised your concerns.

629
00:30:48,927 --> 00:30:50,767
Speaker 3: They threatened to sue you for slander if you.

630
00:30:50,767 --> 00:30:51,607
Speaker 1: Spoke your truth.

631
00:30:51,807 --> 00:30:53,967
Speaker 3: So I found my wedding photographer on Instagram.

632
00:30:54,127 --> 00:30:55,847
Speaker 7: Like majority of people in this day of age do,

633
00:30:56,327 --> 00:30:59,047
Speaker 7: her feed looked so bright, airy, but also had this

634
00:30:59,167 --> 00:31:02,047
Speaker 7: goldenness to it, and I loved that. But the goldenness

635
00:31:02,087 --> 00:31:05,287
Speaker 7: that it had still captured the beauty of like colors, blue,

636
00:31:06,127 --> 00:31:09,567
Speaker 7: your skin tone, etc. So she delivered the photos, and

637
00:31:09,647 --> 00:31:11,207
Speaker 7: of course right away I'm like, oh my god, I

638
00:31:11,287 --> 00:31:11,527
Speaker 7: love them.

639
00:31:11,567 --> 00:31:12,527
Speaker 3: I love versing one of them.

640
00:31:12,527 --> 00:31:15,767
Speaker 7: I'm like beaming of excitement. And then for about thirty days,

641
00:31:15,807 --> 00:31:17,927
Speaker 7: I'm staring at the photos and I'm like, why is

642
00:31:17,927 --> 00:31:19,967
Speaker 7: there something bothering me? Like, well, I couldn't put my

643
00:31:19,967 --> 00:31:23,607
Speaker 7: finger on it until I realized I'm a meetup artist. Okay,

644
00:31:23,647 --> 00:31:26,047
Speaker 7: I was a meetup artist in the wedding industry for years,

645
00:31:26,407 --> 00:31:27,847
Speaker 7: and I do may all make up for my wedding.

646
00:31:27,927 --> 00:31:31,287
Speaker 1: So is that so interesting listening? I'm glad you spent

647
00:31:31,367 --> 00:31:33,487
Speaker 1: thirty days because you wouldn't want to make a snap,

648
00:31:33,727 --> 00:31:36,847
Speaker 1: you know, judgment on what it was that was bothering her.

649
00:31:36,927 --> 00:31:40,487
Speaker 1: So it took her thirty days. The photographer after she

650
00:31:40,607 --> 00:31:44,207
Speaker 1: started making these Tiktoks threatened to sue her for slander,

651
00:31:44,247 --> 00:31:46,127
Speaker 1: which is fair enough because that's like business ruining. And

652
00:31:46,127 --> 00:31:48,367
Speaker 1: I assume she named the photographer or people worked out

653
00:31:48,407 --> 00:31:53,447
Speaker 1: who the photographer was. Some people reacted with horror, others

654
00:31:53,487 --> 00:31:55,607
Speaker 1: with sympathy. Some people said, do people get married for

655
00:31:55,647 --> 00:31:57,687
Speaker 1: the photos? This is insane to me. I don't understand.

656
00:31:58,007 --> 00:32:01,527
Speaker 1: Others cheered her on for demanding her money back and

657
00:32:01,567 --> 00:32:04,887
Speaker 1: feeling so aggrieved. Jesse, you got married last year and

658
00:32:04,927 --> 00:32:07,247
Speaker 1: you're deep in wedding mode. You were at a wedding

659
00:32:07,407 --> 00:32:10,287
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. Do you and your friends

660
00:32:10,407 --> 00:32:12,527
Speaker 1: like your wedding photos? Is it too late for you

661
00:32:12,567 --> 00:32:13,927
Speaker 1: to complain if you don't.

662
00:32:13,927 --> 00:32:17,807
Speaker 3: This speaks to something so much bigger than the CPR

663
00:32:18,087 --> 00:32:22,367
Speaker 3: bride and an overcast day. That is one thing. But

664
00:32:22,487 --> 00:32:25,287
Speaker 3: I almost don't want to get into. As much as

665
00:32:25,287 --> 00:32:27,447
Speaker 3: I love the weeds because the weeds are fun, I

666
00:32:27,527 --> 00:32:29,727
Speaker 3: want to leave those women alone because it's like, it's

667
00:32:29,727 --> 00:32:30,407
Speaker 3: not their fault.

668
00:32:30,887 --> 00:32:34,447
Speaker 2: It's not it's not the bride, not the bride's fault.

669
00:32:34,967 --> 00:32:36,687
Speaker 2: This is an instance in which I'm very happy to

670
00:32:36,727 --> 00:32:37,327
Speaker 2: blame a woman.

671
00:32:37,327 --> 00:32:40,767
Speaker 1: It's a team bride, not team photographer.

672
00:32:40,887 --> 00:32:43,407
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm also team photographer. I'm probably more

673
00:32:43,407 --> 00:32:46,127
Speaker 3: team photographer than I am team bride. But she is

674
00:32:46,247 --> 00:32:50,767
Speaker 3: just a product of this culture that tells us that

675
00:32:51,047 --> 00:32:54,727
Speaker 3: on our wedding day we have to look like a supermodel.

676
00:32:54,767 --> 00:32:56,327
Speaker 3: And I spoke about this a bit at the time,

677
00:32:56,367 --> 00:32:59,327
Speaker 3: but when I was getting married, the things that I

678
00:32:59,527 --> 00:33:02,287
Speaker 3: learned about what people do in the lead up to

679
00:33:02,367 --> 00:33:05,007
Speaker 3: a wedding from a twelve month I don't even know

680
00:33:05,047 --> 00:33:08,807
Speaker 3: what you'd call it, like facial program where you go

681
00:33:08,847 --> 00:33:12,807
Speaker 3: and get special facial things to look pretty on your

682
00:33:12,847 --> 00:33:17,927
Speaker 3: wedding day, to ridiculous diets, to teeth whitening, to you've

683
00:33:17,927 --> 00:33:19,167
Speaker 3: got to get your hair trial, you got to get

684
00:33:19,207 --> 00:33:21,887
Speaker 3: your makeup trial, like absolutely absurd, And then you go

685
00:33:21,927 --> 00:33:24,247
Speaker 3: and spend an inordinate amount of money on a wedding

686
00:33:24,287 --> 00:33:30,847
Speaker 3: dress and choos and the pressure pretty master. When then

687
00:33:30,927 --> 00:33:35,647
Speaker 3: the photos land in your inbox, you better look hot,

688
00:33:35,887 --> 00:33:38,807
Speaker 3: you better look the best you have ever looked in

689
00:33:38,807 --> 00:33:39,167
Speaker 3: your own.

690
00:33:39,127 --> 00:33:40,287
Speaker 1: But I'm already filtered.

691
00:33:40,567 --> 00:33:42,607
Speaker 3: Well, I think that they get edited or whatever, but

692
00:33:42,647 --> 00:33:46,367
Speaker 3: the problem is it's still you, right. And I was

693
00:33:46,367 --> 00:33:48,607
Speaker 3: sitting there with a bunch of girlfriends literally a few

694
00:33:48,647 --> 00:33:51,727
Speaker 3: weeks ago, and someone said you know. I didn't want

695
00:33:51,727 --> 00:33:54,047
Speaker 3: to say this out loud, but I hate my wedding photos.

696
00:33:54,087 --> 00:33:56,887
Speaker 3: I hate them. And she was saying, I got them

697
00:33:56,927 --> 00:33:58,607
Speaker 3: back and I thought that I was going to look

698
00:33:58,647 --> 00:34:00,407
Speaker 3: the best I've ever looked, and I would be blown

699
00:34:00,447 --> 00:34:03,887
Speaker 3: away by my own beauty. And I wasn't. I just

700
00:34:04,007 --> 00:34:07,327
Speaker 3: looked like myself. And then everyone at the table who

701
00:34:07,367 --> 00:34:10,647
Speaker 3: was married just started whealing and was like, I'm so

702
00:34:10,807 --> 00:34:13,367
Speaker 3: glad you've said it. Some were saying I felt pressured

703
00:34:13,367 --> 00:34:15,287
Speaker 3: to put pictures on Instagram, but I actually hated how

704
00:34:15,327 --> 00:34:16,887
Speaker 3: I looked because of my chin and my hair, and

705
00:34:16,887 --> 00:34:18,327
Speaker 3: why did I choose to do that? And no, no, no,

706
00:34:18,327 --> 00:34:21,687
Speaker 3: no no. And I looked through the three hundred, five hundred,

707
00:34:21,727 --> 00:34:24,367
Speaker 3: eight hundred photos of myself and could barely choose one

708
00:34:24,407 --> 00:34:24,727
Speaker 3: I liked.

709
00:34:25,527 --> 00:34:30,207
Speaker 1: Thirty Days, Holly's, Holly's shuddering and just Holly is an

710
00:34:30,207 --> 00:34:32,207
Speaker 1: existential deep sigh.

711
00:34:32,287 --> 00:34:37,007
Speaker 2: Can I just please take the floor. Why wedding photos?

712
00:34:37,047 --> 00:34:37,847
Speaker 2: What are they for?

713
00:34:38,287 --> 00:34:38,527
Speaker 4: You know?

714
00:34:38,687 --> 00:34:42,567
Speaker 3: Okay, this is a thing. Wedding photos have come to represent,

715
00:34:42,967 --> 00:34:44,647
Speaker 3: these photos that have landed in my in box. I'm

716
00:34:44,647 --> 00:34:46,127
Speaker 3: not saying this is how I felt, but this is

717
00:34:46,167 --> 00:34:48,807
Speaker 3: what the culture is telling us. You have to look

718
00:34:49,727 --> 00:34:52,487
Speaker 3: the best you have ever looked in your life and

719
00:34:52,567 --> 00:34:54,687
Speaker 3: the best you will ever look for her, because there

720
00:34:54,767 --> 00:34:57,927
Speaker 3: is something about that moment that we have been told

721
00:34:57,927 --> 00:35:00,967
Speaker 3: as women, that you better be your thinnest, that you

722
00:35:01,007 --> 00:35:03,687
Speaker 3: better be your most beautiful, that you're young, that everyone's

723
00:35:03,727 --> 00:35:05,167
Speaker 3: going to see these photos, that they're gonna be up

724
00:35:05,167 --> 00:35:07,207
Speaker 3: on your wall, that you your future children might look

725
00:35:07,207 --> 00:35:08,727
Speaker 3: at this, and my mom looks part.

726
00:35:09,287 --> 00:35:12,167
Speaker 1: Have you ever gone into someone's house for a house inspection,

727
00:35:12,287 --> 00:35:13,807
Speaker 1: like if you're buying a house or renting a house,

728
00:35:14,167 --> 00:35:15,727
Speaker 1: and people have no wedding photos.

729
00:35:15,727 --> 00:35:18,327
Speaker 2: After all, lots of my friends have their wedding photos up.

730
00:35:19,167 --> 00:35:22,047
Speaker 2: But I still don't understand, right, because.

731
00:35:21,687 --> 00:35:23,687
Speaker 1: It's a big beauty standard to judge yourself with for

732
00:35:23,687 --> 00:35:24,087
Speaker 1: the rest.

733
00:35:23,967 --> 00:35:27,287
Speaker 2: Of it and beat yourself with for the rest of

734
00:35:27,327 --> 00:35:29,687
Speaker 2: your life. Because you did, as you said, Jesse, spend

735
00:35:29,727 --> 00:35:32,767
Speaker 2: a whole year preparing for Thotels. Clear I did not,

736
00:35:33,007 --> 00:35:37,567
Speaker 2: but you sorry you didn't, and you were heavily pregnant, pregnant,

737
00:35:37,567 --> 00:35:39,607
Speaker 2: and I was there and you looked fucking gorgeous, so

738
00:35:39,607 --> 00:35:41,127
Speaker 2: we just have to put that on the table. But

739
00:35:41,207 --> 00:35:44,127
Speaker 2: still you weren't really in a position where you were like,

740
00:35:44,447 --> 00:35:45,727
Speaker 2: you weren't shredding for the wedding.

741
00:35:45,727 --> 00:35:46,567
Speaker 1: You weren't doing all that.

742
00:35:46,567 --> 00:35:48,247
Speaker 3: That was not your vibe.

743
00:35:48,527 --> 00:35:51,847
Speaker 2: Why don't we do what we do at every other

744
00:35:52,127 --> 00:35:55,407
Speaker 2: major milestone event that we have these days, which is

745
00:35:55,447 --> 00:35:57,887
Speaker 2: you say, the your mates have at it, take a

746
00:35:57,967 --> 00:36:00,967
Speaker 2: million pictures and put them all in a group chat,

747
00:36:01,167 --> 00:36:02,967
Speaker 2: and I'll just pick the ones I like, and those

748
00:36:03,007 --> 00:36:04,327
Speaker 2: will be the ones that we'll put out there. And

749
00:36:04,327 --> 00:36:06,087
Speaker 2: we could all save ourselves a lot of money and

750
00:36:06,127 --> 00:36:09,007
Speaker 2: angst and time. And you could still put whatever filter

751
00:36:09,087 --> 00:36:10,927
Speaker 2: on a you want, print one out at one of

752
00:36:10,927 --> 00:36:13,687
Speaker 2: those like office works things and stick it on the

753
00:36:13,687 --> 00:36:14,607
Speaker 2: wall or put it.

754
00:36:14,567 --> 00:36:14,927
Speaker 7: On the bake.

755
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:16,847
Speaker 3: You can trust your friends in all the photos, you're

756
00:36:16,847 --> 00:36:18,527
Speaker 3: gonna be blinking. Your friends gonna look hard. And it

757
00:36:18,567 --> 00:36:19,007
Speaker 3: was your wedding.

758
00:36:19,607 --> 00:36:21,927
Speaker 2: There's some picture of you at an event that you.

759
00:36:22,087 --> 00:36:23,287
Speaker 7: Like, isn't there?

760
00:36:23,727 --> 00:36:27,807
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't understand I'm not married, right, so maybe

761
00:36:27,807 --> 00:36:30,647
Speaker 2: that's it. But also when I was home recently in Britain,

762
00:36:30,927 --> 00:36:33,727
Speaker 2: I found my mom and dad's wedding photos because I

763
00:36:33,767 --> 00:36:36,087
Speaker 2: was going through all their pictures to make my dad's

764
00:36:36,087 --> 00:36:40,047
Speaker 2: eighties photo slide. They got married in the sixties there

765
00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:42,087
Speaker 2: are two photos of them black and white.

766
00:36:42,607 --> 00:36:45,007
Speaker 1: Jeez, they must have had color backs. Know what's going on.

767
00:36:45,647 --> 00:36:49,807
Speaker 2: They're standing outside a church smiling. Snap. They're standing next

768
00:36:49,847 --> 00:36:53,407
Speaker 2: to a wedding cake, smiling snap to me because I

769
00:36:53,447 --> 00:36:57,487
Speaker 2: love them. I love those photos. They are important to me.

770
00:36:57,647 --> 00:37:00,607
Speaker 2: That's the you know, a big moment for them. It

771
00:37:00,647 --> 00:37:05,287
Speaker 2: didn't take four hours. There weren't twenty five different framings settings.

772
00:37:05,287 --> 00:37:07,047
Speaker 2: Can we all leave everyone else to get drunk in

773
00:37:07,087 --> 00:37:07,407
Speaker 2: the barn?

774
00:37:08,327 --> 00:37:09,007
Speaker 1: Stand over there?

775
00:37:09,647 --> 00:37:12,367
Speaker 2: She certainly did not have a hair rehearsal. You don't

776
00:37:12,407 --> 00:37:14,647
Speaker 2: even I asked her what color was this thing you're wearing,

777
00:37:14,687 --> 00:37:16,567
Speaker 2: because you can't really tell me black Mike's I can't

778
00:37:16,567 --> 00:37:20,807
Speaker 2: really remember anyway. But the photos will be special to

779
00:37:20,847 --> 00:37:23,207
Speaker 2: you because the day was special to you. This kind

780
00:37:23,207 --> 00:37:26,967
Speaker 2: of shit, Ceep, your bride is everything that is wrong

781
00:37:27,007 --> 00:37:30,487
Speaker 2: with this situation. We have missed the point of weddings

782
00:37:30,487 --> 00:37:33,967
Speaker 2: and relationships and just given ourselves more things to spend

783
00:37:33,967 --> 00:37:36,847
Speaker 2: money on, beat ourselves up about, and decide that we're

784
00:37:36,847 --> 00:37:38,407
Speaker 2: not good enough for and.

785
00:37:38,487 --> 00:37:40,727
Speaker 3: It's in our power to change it. We need a

786
00:37:40,807 --> 00:37:45,487
Speaker 3: moment's silence for wedding photographers. Absolutely makeup artist. I know

787
00:37:46,527 --> 00:37:49,047
Speaker 3: the horror stories. I've spoken to makeup artists who have said,

788
00:37:49,527 --> 00:37:51,007
Speaker 3: you go to do the makeup on the day and

789
00:37:51,047 --> 00:37:52,407
Speaker 3: then they're looking in the mirror. I guess what, You're

790
00:37:52,407 --> 00:37:54,407
Speaker 3: still Jesse on your wedding day, and you're not happy

791
00:37:54,407 --> 00:37:56,607
Speaker 3: because you're like, I'm not j Loo and I was

792
00:37:56,647 --> 00:37:59,887
Speaker 3: promised Jaylo. And then you've got screaming and tantrums and

793
00:37:59,927 --> 00:38:02,327
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. And we complain the women,

794
00:38:02,367 --> 00:38:04,847
Speaker 3: and you know, I don't endorse that kind of behavior,

795
00:38:05,367 --> 00:38:06,007
Speaker 3: but this.

796
00:38:06,047 --> 00:38:07,447
Speaker 1: What's obviously Joe Biden's fault.

797
00:38:07,927 --> 00:38:11,367
Speaker 3: His pressure is ridiculous. Maya, do you love your wedding photos?

798
00:38:11,487 --> 00:38:13,847
Speaker 3: Don't have any I've seen a photo of your wedding.

799
00:38:14,447 --> 00:38:16,447
Speaker 1: I didn't have a photographer, we didn't have you.

800
00:38:17,047 --> 00:38:18,327
Speaker 2: You were doing what I was saying.

801
00:38:18,407 --> 00:38:20,927
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is so interesting when you think about it, right,

802
00:38:21,047 --> 00:38:23,287
Speaker 1: it's very on brand with how much I sort of

803
00:38:23,367 --> 00:38:26,047
Speaker 1: was not involved with my wedding. It occurred to me

804
00:38:26,127 --> 00:38:29,407
Speaker 1: at one point that we don't have like a photo

805
00:38:29,487 --> 00:38:33,087
Speaker 1: of us with our parents or anything on the date.

806
00:38:33,167 --> 00:38:35,327
Speaker 1: So like, as we were leaving our place to go

807
00:38:35,487 --> 00:38:38,887
Speaker 1: to the reception, I quickly sort of handed someone a

808
00:38:38,887 --> 00:38:41,167
Speaker 1: camera and we sort of gathered on the front steps

809
00:38:41,167 --> 00:38:43,927
Speaker 1: for one second, but it's like, we don't have any

810
00:38:43,967 --> 00:38:46,047
Speaker 1: formal photos, and when I was thinking about, what's the

811
00:38:46,087 --> 00:38:48,607
Speaker 1: point of them. For a lot of women, it is

812
00:38:48,607 --> 00:38:50,407
Speaker 1: the only time they will get their hair and makeup done.

813
00:38:50,767 --> 00:38:53,327
Speaker 1: It is the most expensive dress they'll ever wear. In fact,

814
00:38:53,367 --> 00:38:56,127
Speaker 1: pretty much for everyone, it is the only time in

815
00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:58,087
Speaker 1: their life that they will be the complete center of

816
00:38:58,087 --> 00:39:02,367
Speaker 1: attention before or since. And it might also be the

817
00:39:02,407 --> 00:39:06,647
Speaker 1: only time that everyone in your family of various generations

818
00:39:06,687 --> 00:39:09,927
Speaker 1: is photographed together in a photo that it's not like

819
00:39:10,167 --> 00:39:13,127
Speaker 1: someone's head chopped off and someone's blinking in whatever. So

820
00:39:13,887 --> 00:39:16,727
Speaker 1: they are sort of historical documents in many ways.

821
00:39:16,767 --> 00:39:19,047
Speaker 3: Wedding photos so we know that your value as a

822
00:39:19,047 --> 00:39:21,527
Speaker 3: woman is totally indexed on how you look. That's how

823
00:39:21,527 --> 00:39:25,087
Speaker 3: we're socialized. And on a wedding day you are given

824
00:39:25,127 --> 00:39:29,967
Speaker 3: permission to try to try very hard. Other times, like

825
00:39:29,967 --> 00:39:31,607
Speaker 3: when you come to work or whatever, he's still trying,

826
00:39:31,887 --> 00:39:35,167
Speaker 3: but like you have permission to go one hundred percent, but.

827
00:39:35,127 --> 00:39:38,647
Speaker 1: Not even permission. You're a current pressure. Yes, yes, you

828
00:39:38,727 --> 00:39:42,047
Speaker 1: have the expectation that you will look the best you've

829
00:39:42,087 --> 00:39:46,647
Speaker 1: ever looked. So I get why you want to capture

830
00:39:46,727 --> 00:39:49,127
Speaker 1: the results of that. Yeah, it just seems to be

831
00:39:49,527 --> 00:39:52,887
Speaker 1: a good use of resource to get that on record.

832
00:39:52,727 --> 00:39:53,527
Speaker 3: And it's ridiculous.

833
00:39:53,527 --> 00:39:55,167
Speaker 1: It's not like you can use it for your LinkedIn shot,

834
00:39:55,207 --> 00:39:56,367
Speaker 1: although some people don't be sure.

835
00:39:56,367 --> 00:39:59,407
Speaker 3: They would just prop it really close. But I agree

836
00:39:59,447 --> 00:40:02,327
Speaker 3: that the purpose of wedding photos and we had a

837
00:40:02,367 --> 00:40:05,167
Speaker 3: brilliant photographer, and I love the photos, and she just

838
00:40:05,207 --> 00:40:08,647
Speaker 3: did such a beautiful job because you can see all

839
00:40:08,647 --> 00:40:11,887
Speaker 3: these people in one room who, unless I die tomorrow,

840
00:40:12,367 --> 00:40:15,727
Speaker 3: likely won't be in the same room again, and that's

841
00:40:15,727 --> 00:40:18,647
Speaker 3: really special. And even getting those photos framed and giving

842
00:40:18,687 --> 00:40:21,887
Speaker 3: them to parents and grandparents and everything like it means

843
00:40:21,927 --> 00:40:24,087
Speaker 3: a lot to me. It's almost like a it's like

844
00:40:24,167 --> 00:40:26,407
Speaker 3: capturing a like a historical moment.

845
00:40:27,407 --> 00:40:29,407
Speaker 1: When you just said, unless I die tomorrow, so you

846
00:40:29,447 --> 00:40:31,447
Speaker 1: mean it at a future. Yeah, But we don't take

847
00:40:31,527 --> 00:40:33,087
Speaker 1: photos at funerals, do we No?

848
00:40:33,127 --> 00:40:35,047
Speaker 3: But I mean, I agree with.

849
00:40:35,047 --> 00:40:37,607
Speaker 1: That, and we don't. That's the other time that everyone

850
00:40:37,647 --> 00:40:40,327
Speaker 1: is together, and we don't take photos at funerals, not

851
00:40:40,367 --> 00:40:43,807
Speaker 1: that I'm suggesting we start, So I get that, But

852
00:40:43,927 --> 00:40:47,847
Speaker 1: I do think that photos have become this stand in

853
00:40:47,967 --> 00:40:51,687
Speaker 1: for so much more than just the photos. It's like,

854
00:40:51,727 --> 00:40:53,847
Speaker 1: it's got to capture the feeling. It's got to capture

855
00:40:53,847 --> 00:40:56,047
Speaker 1: the love. It's got to capture you know, you've got

856
00:40:56,047 --> 00:40:57,887
Speaker 1: to look the best you've ever looked. It's got to

857
00:40:57,887 --> 00:41:01,287
Speaker 1: capture every joy. That's a big ask for a photographer.

858
00:41:01,487 --> 00:41:01,687
Speaker 6: Yeah.

859
00:41:01,767 --> 00:41:04,047
Speaker 3: I reckon though, that we don't need permission to go,

860
00:41:04,087 --> 00:41:06,487
Speaker 3: because once you've spent all of that money, you want

861
00:41:06,487 --> 00:41:08,167
Speaker 3: to have the feeling of going. These are great photos.

862
00:41:08,207 --> 00:41:10,047
Speaker 3: If you are bright to your photo, what do you.

863
00:41:10,127 --> 00:41:10,447
Speaker 7: Do with that?

864
00:41:10,647 --> 00:41:12,367
Speaker 1: No one wants to see your wedding photos.

865
00:41:12,367 --> 00:41:14,127
Speaker 3: Oh well, we can sit there. But if you look

866
00:41:14,127 --> 00:41:17,127
Speaker 3: at them and you go, I don't love them, you

867
00:41:17,247 --> 00:41:19,647
Speaker 3: have permission not to love them. That's okay, you can

868
00:41:19,647 --> 00:41:19,927
Speaker 3: move on.

869
00:41:20,167 --> 00:41:23,247
Speaker 1: It's probably not the photographer's fault. Yeah, it's probably just

870
00:41:23,287 --> 00:41:25,527
Speaker 1: that it was an impossible breath and it's something that

871
00:41:25,527 --> 00:41:27,407
Speaker 1: that's just too fast. Face Style.

872
00:41:30,567 --> 00:41:34,527
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

873
00:41:34,527 --> 00:41:38,767
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively from Mum and Maya. Subscribers follow the

874
00:41:38,807 --> 00:41:40,687
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your

875
00:41:40,687 --> 00:41:43,527
Speaker 3: ears five days a week, and a huge thank you

876
00:41:43,687 --> 00:41:46,287
Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers.

877
00:41:49,767 --> 00:41:52,447
Speaker 2: I was sick last week, but something that pierced my

878
00:41:52,567 --> 00:41:56,127
Speaker 2: migraine headache from hell was a news story of questionable merit,

879
00:41:56,727 --> 00:41:58,847
Speaker 2: something we're not sure we should talk about at all,

880
00:41:59,087 --> 00:42:00,727
Speaker 2: or anyone should talk about it at all.

881
00:42:00,927 --> 00:42:02,567
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about it.

882
00:42:03,247 --> 00:42:06,207
Speaker 3: We should decide during talking about it whether we should

883
00:42:06,327 --> 00:42:06,967
Speaker 3: talk about it.

884
00:42:07,767 --> 00:42:10,247
Speaker 2: Last week, you didn't you two and took the high

885
00:42:10,327 --> 00:42:13,687
Speaker 2: ground and did not discuss the brief pearl clutching mayhem

886
00:42:13,727 --> 00:42:16,527
Speaker 2: that kicked off around the photograph of the federal opposition

887
00:42:16,607 --> 00:42:19,687
Speaker 2: leader son Tom Dutton holding up a little clear baggie

888
00:42:19,727 --> 00:42:22,807
Speaker 2: of white powder on social media with the caption little

889
00:42:22,847 --> 00:42:27,607
Speaker 2: birthday tree on his eighteenth birthday. Now, as every news outlet,

890
00:42:27,687 --> 00:42:31,247
Speaker 2: Julie noted, and so are we, we are not suggesting

891
00:42:31,367 --> 00:42:35,167
Speaker 2: that the contents of that bag are drugs. But this

892
00:42:35,367 --> 00:42:38,927
Speaker 2: morning I suggested that we should talk about this because

893
00:42:39,007 --> 00:42:41,287
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in a column that was written by

894
00:42:41,327 --> 00:42:45,127
Speaker 2: another politician's son who was once a teenager getting his

895
00:42:45,207 --> 00:42:48,767
Speaker 2: own blasting from the media over his bad behavior.

896
00:42:49,927 --> 00:42:51,127
Speaker 1: Now I think, actually.

897
00:42:50,887 --> 00:42:53,527
Speaker 2: This conversation might even be relevant if your parent isn't

898
00:42:53,527 --> 00:42:57,207
Speaker 2: necessarily famous or powerful, but maybe just has any kind

899
00:42:57,247 --> 00:42:59,487
Speaker 2: of job in your community that comes with a bit

900
00:42:59,487 --> 00:43:02,447
Speaker 2: of an expectation of a certain standard of behavior, like

901
00:43:02,927 --> 00:43:05,487
Speaker 2: a local doctor or a cop, or the football coach

902
00:43:05,567 --> 00:43:08,807
Speaker 2: or a school teacher. Right, if everybody knows who your

903
00:43:08,847 --> 00:43:13,207
Speaker 2: parents and you get in trouble for something, it will

904
00:43:13,607 --> 00:43:18,287
Speaker 2: inevitably reflect on them. And Nick Brax is the son

905
00:43:18,447 --> 00:43:21,607
Speaker 2: of Steve Bras who was the labor premier of Victoria

906
00:43:21,807 --> 00:43:24,327
Speaker 2: from like nineteen ninety nine till two thousand and seven,

907
00:43:24,407 --> 00:43:26,127
Speaker 2: so quite a long time. He was quite famous and

908
00:43:26,207 --> 00:43:30,207
Speaker 2: high profile. And in two thousand and seven, Nick Bras

909
00:43:30,447 --> 00:43:33,367
Speaker 2: had a car accident. He was driving his parents car.

910
00:43:33,527 --> 00:43:37,007
Speaker 2: It was four am. He had been drinking, and he

911
00:43:37,087 --> 00:43:39,607
Speaker 2: was a pea player and he was twenty and no

912
00:43:39,647 --> 00:43:42,207
Speaker 2: one was seriously hurt in the accident, but he crashed

913
00:43:42,207 --> 00:43:44,727
Speaker 2: the car into a tree and he was charged and

914
00:43:44,767 --> 00:43:47,127
Speaker 2: it was a big news story. And it was also

915
00:43:47,247 --> 00:43:50,767
Speaker 2: the third public incident at the time involving him, Nick

916
00:43:51,207 --> 00:43:53,767
Speaker 2: and drink in a short space of time. So the

917
00:43:53,807 --> 00:43:55,567
Speaker 2: media all went nuts for it and they were like,

918
00:43:55,687 --> 00:43:58,167
Speaker 2: what Steve Brack's gonna do. And actually, not that long

919
00:43:58,207 --> 00:44:02,327
Speaker 2: after that, Steve Bras did step down as premiere. Nick

920
00:44:02,367 --> 00:44:05,367
Speaker 2: wrote in the Nine Newspapers Today about Tom Dutton. He wrote,

921
00:44:05,447 --> 00:44:08,047
Speaker 2: I know exactly what it's like to go through what

922
00:44:08,167 --> 00:44:10,807
Speaker 2: he's going through. It would be so confusing and difficult

923
00:44:10,847 --> 00:44:12,607
Speaker 2: for him in the position that he's in, the family

924
00:44:12,607 --> 00:44:14,407
Speaker 2: that he's in, and the age that he is. It's

925
00:44:14,447 --> 00:44:17,847
Speaker 2: a lonely exclusive club. So few people you can talk

926
00:44:17,887 --> 00:44:20,567
Speaker 2: to who understand the experience, and there's no guidebook on

927
00:44:20,607 --> 00:44:23,687
Speaker 2: how to deal with it. And it made me reflect

928
00:44:23,727 --> 00:44:26,007
Speaker 2: on my reaction to the story. I have to admit

929
00:44:26,047 --> 00:44:28,047
Speaker 2: that when I first saw this thing about Dutton, I

930
00:44:28,047 --> 00:44:34,367
Speaker 2: felt a little like dopamine hit of satisfaction, maybe because

931
00:44:34,447 --> 00:44:37,407
Speaker 2: I guess my personal opinion of Peter Dutton, and this

932
00:44:37,527 --> 00:44:39,767
Speaker 2: is my personal opinion, is that he's not a man

933
00:44:39,887 --> 00:44:40,767
Speaker 2: known for his empathy.

934
00:44:40,887 --> 00:44:41,087
Speaker 4: Right.

935
00:44:41,487 --> 00:44:44,967
Speaker 2: He's famously hardline law and order, including when it comes

936
00:44:45,047 --> 00:44:49,007
Speaker 2: to drugs. He does not support harmonimization policies like pill testing.

937
00:44:49,287 --> 00:44:52,007
Speaker 2: He has voted in favor of drug testing welfare recipients.

938
00:44:52,207 --> 00:44:55,087
Speaker 2: He has criticized softening drug laws in places like the Act.

939
00:44:55,727 --> 00:44:58,047
Speaker 2: So when this story first broke, I think there are

940
00:44:58,087 --> 00:45:01,527
Speaker 2: a certain amount of people like me, perhaps who got

941
00:45:01,567 --> 00:45:05,087
Speaker 2: a petty satisfaction to see that powerful people with very

942
00:45:05,087 --> 00:45:08,567
Speaker 2: binary views about things also have to deal with the

943
00:45:08,567 --> 00:45:11,287
Speaker 2: complexity of the people that they love behaving in ways

944
00:45:11,287 --> 00:45:16,407
Speaker 2: that they publicly is. But my wiser mind knows that

945
00:45:16,567 --> 00:45:19,767
Speaker 2: shaming a young man who has no say whatsoever in

946
00:45:19,807 --> 00:45:24,247
Speaker 2: his father's job or his profile means that I know

947
00:45:24,367 --> 00:45:27,207
Speaker 2: that really it's morally reprehensible for his picture to be

948
00:45:27,247 --> 00:45:31,567
Speaker 2: splashed all over everywhere. And as Nick Brax wrote, pile

949
00:45:31,607 --> 00:45:33,967
Speaker 2: and guilt and shame onto young boys for decisions a

950
00:45:33,967 --> 00:45:36,367
Speaker 2: lot of kids will make in their lifetimes doesn't work.

951
00:45:36,607 --> 00:45:38,767
Speaker 2: When that happens, it can stick around for a long time,

952
00:45:39,047 --> 00:45:41,007
Speaker 2: it bleeds into everything else in your life, and you

953
00:45:41,047 --> 00:45:44,127
Speaker 2: become paralyzed worrying about being judged for anything you do

954
00:45:44,207 --> 00:45:46,847
Speaker 2: and what people will think. It plays on your sense

955
00:45:46,847 --> 00:45:49,967
Speaker 2: of feeling autonomous and reinforces the mindset of when I

956
00:45:49,967 --> 00:45:52,167
Speaker 2: make a decision, bad things happen, and it's not how

957
00:45:52,207 --> 00:45:55,527
Speaker 2: we should be conditioned. Mia are the actions of a

958
00:45:55,527 --> 00:45:58,807
Speaker 2: politician's child or the child of any prominent person any

959
00:45:58,847 --> 00:45:59,767
Speaker 2: of our business.

960
00:46:00,087 --> 00:46:01,847
Speaker 1: I don't know. If there's a blanket answer on this,

961
00:46:02,007 --> 00:46:04,607
Speaker 1: I would say no, actually, And it's interesting because some

962
00:46:04,687 --> 00:46:07,687
Speaker 1: people in defending the way, and let's just go back

963
00:46:07,727 --> 00:46:11,087
Speaker 1: to who is at fault here? The person who leaked

964
00:46:11,087 --> 00:46:17,287
Speaker 1: that photo, which is on Snapchat, it's Jill Biden. No,

965
00:46:17,447 --> 00:46:19,367
Speaker 1: what an asshole of a mate. I mean, this is

966
00:46:19,407 --> 00:46:21,487
Speaker 1: a problem with social media. So many people are following you,

967
00:46:21,527 --> 00:46:23,327
Speaker 1: but someone knew exactly what they were doing when they

968
00:46:23,327 --> 00:46:26,047
Speaker 1: snapped that and shared it. In terms of whether the

969
00:46:26,087 --> 00:46:29,527
Speaker 1: media reports on it or not is more tricky because

970
00:46:29,927 --> 00:46:33,007
Speaker 1: I've heard some people say, well, when you're a politician

971
00:46:33,047 --> 00:46:37,287
Speaker 1: and you use your children in campaigning, you're the one

972
00:46:37,407 --> 00:46:40,327
Speaker 1: that's making them part of the conversation. And we've seen

973
00:46:40,767 --> 00:46:44,607
Speaker 1: different leaders do that in the past, particularly when they're

974
00:46:44,647 --> 00:46:48,247
Speaker 1: doing sixty minutes interviews around an election campaign. Scott Morrison

975
00:46:48,247 --> 00:46:50,727
Speaker 1: did it with his daughter's Tony Abbott. He would always

976
00:46:50,767 --> 00:46:54,807
Speaker 1: take his three young daughters to campaign events and they

977
00:46:54,807 --> 00:46:56,407
Speaker 1: did that thing of when they're in the swimming pool.

978
00:46:56,447 --> 00:46:59,807
Speaker 1: So if it's used as a tool to make you

979
00:46:59,887 --> 00:47:02,967
Speaker 1: more parlatable to the media, it could be argued that

980
00:47:03,007 --> 00:47:05,767
Speaker 1: what they then do becomes a question of public interest.

981
00:47:06,527 --> 00:47:10,047
Speaker 1: I went back on Peter Dutton's Instagram account because some

982
00:47:10,087 --> 00:47:13,527
Speaker 1: people flashed a photo of him with his family. He

983
00:47:13,607 --> 00:47:17,127
Speaker 1: has not published any photos of his family apart from

984
00:47:17,127 --> 00:47:21,767
Speaker 1: his wife, since May twenty six. Twenty twenty two, which

985
00:47:21,807 --> 00:47:25,487
Speaker 1: is when he did a media interview and they took

986
00:47:25,527 --> 00:47:28,087
Speaker 1: a photo declaring himself a candidate for the leader of

987
00:47:28,127 --> 00:47:30,047
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. In the post that he did, he

988
00:47:30,047 --> 00:47:32,247
Speaker 1: didn't even mention his children or how old they were,

989
00:47:32,287 --> 00:47:34,367
Speaker 1: and they didn't speak, they didn't do any media. It

990
00:47:34,447 --> 00:47:36,447
Speaker 1: was just a picture of him sort of walking down

991
00:47:36,487 --> 00:47:39,207
Speaker 1: the street looking at the camera with his three children.

992
00:47:39,247 --> 00:47:41,287
Speaker 1: He's got two sons and a daughter and his wife.

993
00:47:41,327 --> 00:47:45,087
Speaker 1: His wife is sporadically but in very few I couldn't

994
00:47:45,087 --> 00:47:47,807
Speaker 1: even remember what she looked like. I don't remember ever

995
00:47:47,887 --> 00:47:49,007
Speaker 1: seeing her or hearing from her.

996
00:47:49,167 --> 00:47:51,247
Speaker 3: I don't think he puts his family, and he does

997
00:47:51,607 --> 00:47:52,167
Speaker 3: he doesn't.

998
00:47:52,607 --> 00:47:56,167
Speaker 1: Albo does with his fiancee Jodi, but I can't remember

999
00:47:56,287 --> 00:47:59,487
Speaker 1: much about his children. Because what's different now even compared

1000
00:47:59,487 --> 00:48:01,607
Speaker 1: to two thousand and seven is social media and what

1001
00:48:01,727 --> 00:48:05,727
Speaker 1: can happen and the Internet. Tanya Plibisek, who was in

1002
00:48:05,767 --> 00:48:07,687
Speaker 1: a media interview either on her own or with Peter

1003
00:48:07,727 --> 00:48:10,807
Speaker 1: Dutton the next day, was asked about this and she

1004
00:48:11,047 --> 00:48:13,007
Speaker 1: very firmly said, I'm not going to speak about it.

1005
00:48:13,047 --> 00:48:15,847
Speaker 1: I'm not commenting on it because every single politician knows

1006
00:48:15,887 --> 00:48:17,847
Speaker 1: there but for the grace of God goes my family

1007
00:48:18,207 --> 00:48:20,567
Speaker 1: or my brother, or my kid, or my uncle or

1008
00:48:20,647 --> 00:48:23,487
Speaker 1: my partner. You know, I think that we understand that

1009
00:48:23,527 --> 00:48:27,247
Speaker 1: there are certain boundaries. I really felt for everybody in

1010
00:48:27,287 --> 00:48:30,127
Speaker 1: that situation, but I particularly felt for Peter Dutton because

1011
00:48:30,127 --> 00:48:33,807
Speaker 1: I think that the guilt that he would feel about

1012
00:48:33,927 --> 00:48:38,247
Speaker 1: the scrutiny and the attention and the spotlight on his

1013
00:48:38,367 --> 00:48:40,367
Speaker 1: kids and on his family because of as you say,

1014
00:48:40,367 --> 00:48:44,207
Speaker 1: Holy a decision that he made would be absolutely intense.

1015
00:48:44,287 --> 00:48:45,967
Speaker 1: I know that I feel it with my own kids.

1016
00:48:46,287 --> 00:48:48,407
Speaker 3: And the question is I mean you brought up and

1017
00:48:48,447 --> 00:48:51,807
Speaker 3: I've seen this argument a lot. He has shared photos

1018
00:48:51,807 --> 00:48:55,207
Speaker 3: of his family before, but you know, I've shared a

1019
00:48:55,207 --> 00:48:57,847
Speaker 3: photo of my daughter before. Does that mean that everyone's

1020
00:48:58,007 --> 00:49:01,207
Speaker 3: entitled to see her report card one day? No, I

1021
00:49:01,207 --> 00:49:03,367
Speaker 3: don't think that that's a logical argument.

1022
00:49:03,527 --> 00:49:05,207
Speaker 1: Or if she's having a tantrum in the street, should

1023
00:49:05,207 --> 00:49:06,047
Speaker 1: they take a photo of that?

1024
00:49:06,207 --> 00:49:08,287
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. And it's funny that you bring that

1025
00:49:08,407 --> 00:49:11,967
Speaker 3: up because Aberze's son. There's this weird story. I went

1026
00:49:12,007 --> 00:49:14,167
Speaker 3: down this rabbit hole. I had missed it, but a

1027
00:49:14,447 --> 00:49:18,487
Speaker 3: radio announcer was in the Quantess chairman's lounge and he

1028
00:49:18,527 --> 00:49:22,247
Speaker 3: saw Anthony Aberneze's son, and he just went he's twenty

1029
00:49:22,287 --> 00:49:23,367
Speaker 3: three years old.

1030
00:49:23,247 --> 00:49:23,687
Speaker 1: How is?

1031
00:49:24,287 --> 00:49:26,247
Speaker 3: And he went on this sort of spray about it,

1032
00:49:26,287 --> 00:49:28,287
Speaker 3: that it's ridiculous that someone so young would be in

1033
00:49:28,287 --> 00:49:31,407
Speaker 3: that lounge. I think that we need to afford these

1034
00:49:31,447 --> 00:49:35,047
Speaker 3: people some level of privacy. Whether or not you think

1035
00:49:35,047 --> 00:49:37,607
Speaker 3: you should be in that lounge feels kind of irrelevant.

1036
00:49:37,807 --> 00:49:41,047
Speaker 3: Like these people, as you say, are not responsible. They

1037
00:49:41,047 --> 00:49:44,607
Speaker 3: didn't decide to be politicians. They're just young men or

1038
00:49:44,727 --> 00:49:47,927
Speaker 3: women trying to live their lives. And I felt really

1039
00:49:48,207 --> 00:49:51,247
Speaker 3: sad for Tom Dutton. I saw the story pop up

1040
00:49:51,367 --> 00:49:54,847
Speaker 3: and I didn't click, and I thought this irrelevant. But

1041
00:49:54,967 --> 00:49:57,407
Speaker 3: I know what you're trying to do, and what the

1042
00:49:57,447 --> 00:50:01,127
Speaker 3: coverage was trying to do was it had nothing to

1043
00:50:01,167 --> 00:50:03,887
Speaker 3: do with Tom Dutton. It was an attempt to shame

1044
00:50:04,327 --> 00:50:05,207
Speaker 3: Peter Dutton.

1045
00:50:04,967 --> 00:50:07,687
Speaker 1: To weaponize it again, to weaponize it due to their credit.

1046
00:50:08,247 --> 00:50:10,887
Speaker 1: The story die because nobody gave it oxygen. Now the

1047
00:50:11,207 --> 00:50:13,807
Speaker 1: AOP could have given it oxygen, they chose not to.

1048
00:50:14,127 --> 00:50:16,607
Speaker 1: Pretty much, no one gave it oxygen, so no one

1049
00:50:16,647 --> 00:50:19,047
Speaker 1: came out and went blah blah blah blah. Everyone just left.

1050
00:50:19,087 --> 00:50:22,007
Speaker 3: Do you sort of tabloid me about twenty four hours.

1051
00:50:22,047 --> 00:50:24,287
Speaker 2: For about twenty four hours, it was almost like, let's

1052
00:50:24,287 --> 00:50:26,007
Speaker 2: see if we can whip this up into a thing.

1053
00:50:26,727 --> 00:50:28,767
Speaker 2: And then I agree. I think it did die down

1054
00:50:28,847 --> 00:50:34,207
Speaker 2: really quickly, which is good. I understand the instinct to

1055
00:50:34,367 --> 00:50:39,287
Speaker 2: go ha hipocrisy at work, or if you feel very

1056
00:50:39,327 --> 00:50:42,287
Speaker 2: strongly that someone is a political enemy of yours and

1057
00:50:42,367 --> 00:50:44,887
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily mean mine, but you know that you

1058
00:50:44,967 --> 00:50:48,927
Speaker 2: will wedge your knife into any gap, any crack, and

1059
00:50:49,007 --> 00:50:52,047
Speaker 2: go okay, mister law and Order doesn't show much empathy

1060
00:50:52,127 --> 00:50:55,727
Speaker 2: or sympathy for families living in difficult situations on indigenous

1061
00:50:55,767 --> 00:50:59,247
Speaker 2: communities or in refuge eue detention centers, but now we're

1062
00:50:59,247 --> 00:51:02,207
Speaker 2: suddenly supposed to be empathetic to you. I understand that impulse,

1063
00:51:02,247 --> 00:51:04,847
Speaker 2: because there's a bit of it in me, right, But

1064
00:51:04,967 --> 00:51:06,727
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things that you have

1065
00:51:06,807 --> 00:51:09,847
Speaker 2: to like hold and look at and go, you know

1066
00:51:09,887 --> 00:51:12,647
Speaker 2: what I mean, that's not where we're going here. And

1067
00:51:12,727 --> 00:51:15,967
Speaker 2: I think that the Brax column was really interesting because,

1068
00:51:16,647 --> 00:51:18,727
Speaker 2: as I say, I reckon that the pressure you'd feel

1069
00:51:18,767 --> 00:51:21,167
Speaker 2: not to shame and make life more complicated for your

1070
00:51:21,207 --> 00:51:24,407
Speaker 2: parents would be intense. Even as I said, if it's

1071
00:51:24,447 --> 00:51:27,127
Speaker 2: something that's much more low key in your community. I

1072
00:51:27,167 --> 00:51:30,367
Speaker 2: know that as a parent of a teenager, there is

1073
00:51:30,407 --> 00:51:32,327
Speaker 2: a fine line and it's complex to and pick it

1074
00:51:32,447 --> 00:51:36,287
Speaker 2: sometimes whether you're the behavior of your kid you're worried

1075
00:51:36,287 --> 00:51:39,967
Speaker 2: about for them or for you. And I don't mean

1076
00:51:40,007 --> 00:51:42,567
Speaker 2: that as a public person. I mean full stop, you know,

1077
00:51:42,647 --> 00:51:44,447
Speaker 2: like it's kind of like when you're at a barbecue

1078
00:51:44,967 --> 00:51:48,367
Speaker 2: and your child is being naughty and annoying. Is the

1079
00:51:48,367 --> 00:51:50,087
Speaker 2: bit of you that's going and telling them shut up,

1080
00:51:50,087 --> 00:51:53,487
Speaker 2: shut down, shut up, shut down because of them or

1081
00:51:53,527 --> 00:51:55,967
Speaker 2: because of you, because you feel judged, and you know

1082
00:51:56,007 --> 00:51:58,527
Speaker 2: they're all like, well, Holly clearly can't control her child,

1083
00:51:58,647 --> 00:52:00,127
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? This is something that comes

1084
00:52:00,167 --> 00:52:03,367
Speaker 2: to parenting, and I think that it's when it gets

1085
00:52:03,407 --> 00:52:05,727
Speaker 2: to more higher stakes things and the way that we

1086
00:52:05,767 --> 00:52:10,167
Speaker 2: all think teenagers should behave, like definitely not dab and drugs,

1087
00:52:10,207 --> 00:52:13,247
Speaker 2: being really excellent at school. They should be ducks, they

1088
00:52:13,247 --> 00:52:15,287
Speaker 2: should be off to university, they should be doing this,

1089
00:52:15,367 --> 00:52:17,767
Speaker 2: they should be doing that. And if they're not doing

1090
00:52:17,767 --> 00:52:21,407
Speaker 2: those things, it can be hard to unpick whether you're

1091
00:52:21,447 --> 00:52:23,247
Speaker 2: worried about that for them or you. And I reckon

1092
00:52:23,287 --> 00:52:26,087
Speaker 2: that that must be magnetized by a million when you're

1093
00:52:26,727 --> 00:52:27,487
Speaker 2: in this field.

1094
00:52:28,367 --> 00:52:31,207
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, out louders, scrollback, can you

1095
00:52:31,247 --> 00:52:33,127
Speaker 1: feed because there was a little treat on Saturday that

1096
00:52:33,167 --> 00:52:35,527
Speaker 1: you may have missed because we don't usually drop an episode,

1097
00:52:35,647 --> 00:52:38,367
Speaker 1: but we did a special episode because we have been

1098
00:52:38,447 --> 00:52:41,727
Speaker 1: obsessed ever since Jesse introduced us to the idea of

1099
00:52:42,207 --> 00:52:46,327
Speaker 1: getting our colors done and what season we are, we

1100
00:52:46,527 --> 00:52:49,367
Speaker 1: completely have hyper fixated on it. We got the most

1101
00:52:49,367 --> 00:52:51,887
Speaker 1: amazing woman called Kim who has a business called Style Sense,

1102
00:52:51,927 --> 00:52:54,487
Speaker 1: to come in do our colors and talk not just

1103
00:52:54,527 --> 00:52:59,167
Speaker 1: about us, but more generally about what colors suit certain seasons.

1104
00:52:59,407 --> 00:53:01,847
Speaker 1: How you can work it out. It's such a cracker

1105
00:53:01,887 --> 00:53:03,647
Speaker 1: of an episode. We'll put a link in the show

1106
00:53:03,647 --> 00:53:06,407
Speaker 1: notes and will also put a link to a quiz

1107
00:53:06,407 --> 00:53:08,687
Speaker 1: that you can do to find out what color you are,

1108
00:53:08,807 --> 00:53:11,727
Speaker 1: what is your season? Share it? Tell us what season

1109
00:53:11,727 --> 00:53:14,607
Speaker 1: you are. I'm Autumn, not that you asked, Hollywood, are.

1110
00:53:14,567 --> 00:53:16,207
Speaker 2: You true spring light?

1111
00:53:16,287 --> 00:53:16,807
Speaker 3: Spring light?

1112
00:53:16,847 --> 00:53:17,087
Speaker 1: Sprea?

1113
00:53:17,167 --> 00:53:19,727
Speaker 3: I remember, and I'm a light Summer. I think light.

1114
00:53:20,487 --> 00:53:21,727
Speaker 1: So none of us are the same.

1115
00:53:21,607 --> 00:53:23,047
Speaker 3: Which is great because we can swap clothes.

1116
00:53:23,047 --> 00:53:24,687
Speaker 1: Now that's one thing that I really have.

1117
00:53:24,807 --> 00:53:27,487
Speaker 3: You you gave me. I got, Holly, I don't even

1118
00:53:27,487 --> 00:53:29,607
Speaker 3: know if you know this. I got like a bag for.

1119
00:53:30,167 --> 00:53:33,887
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, longer your color.

1120
00:53:33,927 --> 00:53:36,007
Speaker 3: Because she was impulsive. I think she would want them back,

1121
00:53:36,167 --> 00:53:37,887
Speaker 3: but it was just like, this isn't my color, this

1122
00:53:37,967 --> 00:53:40,007
Speaker 3: isn't my color, and so now I have them and

1123
00:53:40,087 --> 00:53:40,847
Speaker 3: I look great in them.

1124
00:53:41,167 --> 00:53:44,007
Speaker 2: She does a big thank you out loud as to

1125
00:53:44,087 --> 00:53:46,247
Speaker 2: all of you for listening to today's show. I'm very

1126
00:53:46,247 --> 00:53:47,767
Speaker 2: happy to be back with you, and a big thank

1127
00:53:47,807 --> 00:53:50,407
Speaker 2: you to all of our team who've been putting today's

1128
00:53:50,407 --> 00:53:52,367
Speaker 2: show together and all our shows this week. We will

1129
00:53:52,407 --> 00:53:54,047
Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow.

1130
00:53:54,447 --> 00:53:56,087
Speaker 3: Bye bye.

1131
00:53:56,647 --> 00:53:59,207
Speaker 1: Do you want daily out loud access? Why wouldn't you?

1132
00:53:59,327 --> 00:54:03,567
Speaker 1: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from mum

1133
00:54:03,567 --> 00:54:05,807
Speaker 1: of me. Are Subscribers follow the link in the show

1134
00:54:05,847 --> 00:54:07,887
Speaker 1: notes to get us in your ears five days a

1135
00:54:07,927 --> 00:54:10,047
Speaker 1: week and a huge thing. Thank you if you are

1136
00:54:10,047 --> 00:54:11,167
Speaker 1: already a subscriber.