1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,334 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,134 --> 00:00:17,214 Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,254 --> 00:00:18,934 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:22,054 --> 00:00:22,254 Speaker 1: Hi. 5 00:00:22,414 --> 00:00:25,494 Speaker 2: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Muma MIA's daily news podcast, 6 00:00:25,534 --> 00:00:29,454 Speaker 2: The Quickie. If there's a more diversity of childhood experience 7 00:00:29,534 --> 00:00:33,374 Speaker 2: than transitioning gender, it's the declaration that you identify as 8 00:00:33,374 --> 00:00:37,254 Speaker 2: a non human creature. Cases are vozzy. Children identifying as 9 00:00:37,334 --> 00:00:39,974 Speaker 2: Theian who feel more like an animal than a human 10 00:00:40,334 --> 00:00:43,854 Speaker 2: are increasing. But while the political discussion around it fires up, 11 00:00:44,094 --> 00:00:46,734 Speaker 2: how can parents navigate this world with the children who 12 00:00:46,774 --> 00:00:50,014 Speaker 2: are trying to better understand who they are today? We'll 13 00:00:50,054 --> 00:00:53,454 Speaker 2: look into why someone might identify as Theian, but before 14 00:00:53,454 --> 00:00:55,654 Speaker 2: we do that, here's the latest news headlines for Monday, 15 00:00:55,654 --> 00:00:58,374 Speaker 2: October twenty one. The shock over the death of One 16 00:00:58,414 --> 00:01:02,014 Speaker 2: Direction Starlee and Payne has continued across the weekend as 17 00:01:02,054 --> 00:01:04,974 Speaker 2: his father, Jeff traveled to Argentina to arrange for the 18 00:01:04,974 --> 00:01:08,054 Speaker 2: return of his son's body to England. Mister Paine was 19 00:01:08,094 --> 00:01:10,254 Speaker 2: taken to the Morgue not long after arriving in the 20 00:01:10,294 --> 00:01:13,654 Speaker 2: country to identify his son's body before he headed to 21 00:01:13,654 --> 00:01:17,214 Speaker 2: the prosecutor's office to organize a repatriation of his remains. 22 00:01:17,494 --> 00:01:19,654 Speaker 2: He stopped in at the hotel where Liam had been 23 00:01:19,694 --> 00:01:22,894 Speaker 2: staying and where he died to collect his son's belongings. 24 00:01:23,134 --> 00:01:25,254 Speaker 2: He was filmed at a memorial site that had been 25 00:01:25,254 --> 00:01:29,094 Speaker 2: set up by fans with flowers, pictures, and messages to Liam. 26 00:01:29,494 --> 00:01:32,254 Speaker 2: Young fans linked arms and held back the crowd so 27 00:01:32,294 --> 00:01:35,694 Speaker 2: the grieving father could take a moment. Liam's sister, Ruth 28 00:01:35,734 --> 00:01:38,814 Speaker 2: shared a statement on social media, calling Liam her best friend, 29 00:01:39,094 --> 00:01:41,814 Speaker 2: writing that she was sorry she couldn't save him, saying 30 00:01:41,854 --> 00:01:43,934 Speaker 2: she would drive to the end of the universe to 31 00:01:43,974 --> 00:01:46,974 Speaker 2: bring him back. Paine's former girlfriend and mother of his 32 00:01:47,014 --> 00:01:49,974 Speaker 2: seven year old son, Bear, Sheryl Cole, spoke out in 33 00:01:49,974 --> 00:01:52,654 Speaker 2: the wake of her ex's death, asking for fans to 34 00:01:52,774 --> 00:01:55,614 Speaker 2: let him rest in peace and reminding people that they'd 35 00:01:55,654 --> 00:01:58,054 Speaker 2: lost a human being, that Liam was not only a 36 00:01:58,094 --> 00:02:00,934 Speaker 2: pop star, but a son, a brother, an uncle, a 37 00:02:00,974 --> 00:02:03,654 Speaker 2: dear friend, and a father. She went on to say 38 00:02:03,654 --> 00:02:05,814 Speaker 2: that their son now has to face the reality of 39 00:02:05,934 --> 00:02:09,454 Speaker 2: never seeing his father again. Liam's former One Direction band 40 00:02:09,654 --> 00:02:11,934 Speaker 2: mates have all paid their respects, both in a joint 41 00:02:11,934 --> 00:02:15,854 Speaker 2: statement and separately on social media. Zane Mallick postponing the 42 00:02:15,934 --> 00:02:18,574 Speaker 2: US leg of his tour, telling fans the dates would 43 00:02:18,574 --> 00:02:21,974 Speaker 2: be rescheduled, but he needed time after the heartbreaking loss. 44 00:02:22,374 --> 00:02:24,454 Speaker 2: The moments leading up to the thirty one year old's 45 00:02:24,454 --> 00:02:28,054 Speaker 2: death are being investigated by Argentine prosecutors, who say it 46 00:02:28,094 --> 00:02:31,934 Speaker 2: appears Pain had consumed drugs and alcohol in his hotel room, 47 00:02:32,214 --> 00:02:34,974 Speaker 2: with pictures of a white powder and burned alfoil on 48 00:02:35,054 --> 00:02:37,774 Speaker 2: a table in his room, along with a smashed TV 49 00:02:37,894 --> 00:02:41,294 Speaker 2: screen and other broken furniture. It's also being reported that 50 00:02:41,334 --> 00:02:43,934 Speaker 2: two women Pain spent time within his room in the 51 00:02:43,974 --> 00:02:47,414 Speaker 2: hours before he fell from the balcony were both sex workers. 52 00:02:47,734 --> 00:02:51,334 Speaker 2: Payne's girlfriend Kate Cassidy, had returned home, posting their five 53 00:02:51,454 --> 00:02:55,054 Speaker 2: day stay to Catchilliam's former bandmate Niall Horan show had 54 00:02:55,094 --> 00:02:57,574 Speaker 2: turned into two weeks and she wanted to go home. 55 00:02:58,014 --> 00:03:00,494 Speaker 2: One witness says they saw Pain speaking with one of 56 00:03:00,494 --> 00:03:02,854 Speaker 2: the women who'd been invited to the hotel after being 57 00:03:02,854 --> 00:03:06,814 Speaker 2: called viron escort service, offering her twenty thousand dollars just 58 00:03:06,894 --> 00:03:10,014 Speaker 2: because he can, and discussing how much money he has. 59 00:03:10,294 --> 00:03:13,254 Speaker 2: The witness says the woman looked uncomfortable and they left. 60 00:03:13,534 --> 00:03:16,574 Speaker 2: The women told investigators they had argued with Pain over him, 61 00:03:16,614 --> 00:03:20,374 Speaker 2: allegedly not wanting to pay them. Cassidy posted a message 62 00:03:20,374 --> 00:03:23,174 Speaker 2: on social media late last week calling Lim her angel 63 00:03:23,254 --> 00:03:25,054 Speaker 2: and saying she wanted him to know that she loved 64 00:03:25,094 --> 00:03:28,774 Speaker 2: him unconditionally, but her friends say she's devastated by both 65 00:03:28,814 --> 00:03:31,214 Speaker 2: his passing and the fact that he'd been with sex 66 00:03:31,254 --> 00:03:34,454 Speaker 2: workers in the hour before. Other witnesses say they saw 67 00:03:34,494 --> 00:03:37,734 Speaker 2: Pain in the lobby, yelling out in frustration before slamming 68 00:03:37,774 --> 00:03:40,254 Speaker 2: his laptop to the ground and returning to his room. 69 00:03:40,614 --> 00:03:44,414 Speaker 2: He fell moments later. It's still unclear whether Pain jumped 70 00:03:44,494 --> 00:03:46,934 Speaker 2: or fell from the balcony of his hotel room. The 71 00:03:46,974 --> 00:03:49,814 Speaker 2: prosecutor's report says he could have fallen in a state 72 00:03:49,854 --> 00:03:53,654 Speaker 2: of semi consciousness or even unconscious. His cause of death 73 00:03:53,774 --> 00:03:57,894 Speaker 2: was reported as internal and external bleeding in the skull, chest, abdomen, 74 00:03:58,014 --> 00:04:02,214 Speaker 2: and limbs. The toxicology reports are pending. Pain's death has 75 00:04:02,214 --> 00:04:04,374 Speaker 2: again put in the spotlight the lack of support for 76 00:04:04,454 --> 00:04:06,814 Speaker 2: young stars who hit fame early and who are left 77 00:04:06,854 --> 00:04:09,534 Speaker 2: to deal with the radical changes in their lives. Liam's 78 00:04:09,654 --> 00:04:12,574 Speaker 2: close friend Katie Wosell, another former X Factor star, took 79 00:04:12,614 --> 00:04:15,454 Speaker 2: to social media calling for changes in the music industry. 80 00:04:15,854 --> 00:04:19,174 Speaker 2: She name checked Simon Cowell, who famously signed One Direction 81 00:04:19,254 --> 00:04:21,654 Speaker 2: back in the day, for a recent interview where he 82 00:04:21,694 --> 00:04:24,694 Speaker 2: said his biggest regret about the band was not owning 83 00:04:24,734 --> 00:04:27,774 Speaker 2: the one D trademark, more concerned about the inability to 84 00:04:27,854 --> 00:04:30,854 Speaker 2: keep making money off them rather than the personal struggles 85 00:04:30,894 --> 00:04:33,734 Speaker 2: of the band members themselves. There are reports that Liam 86 00:04:33,774 --> 00:04:36,254 Speaker 2: had been dropped by his record company in the days 87 00:04:36,294 --> 00:04:40,214 Speaker 2: before his death. Meanwhile, many media outlets who've interviewed Liam 88 00:04:40,254 --> 00:04:42,494 Speaker 2: Payne over the years have been sharing moments with the 89 00:04:42,494 --> 00:04:45,854 Speaker 2: Star to reflect on his career. Scott Mills from BBC 90 00:04:46,054 --> 00:04:49,294 Speaker 2: Radio Two sharing this from the Lockdown years, where Payne 91 00:04:49,334 --> 00:04:51,774 Speaker 2: shared a letter he'd written to his ten year old self. 92 00:04:51,934 --> 00:04:53,974 Speaker 3: You'll have the most amazing time of your life, travel 93 00:04:53,974 --> 00:04:56,814 Speaker 3: the world and live a life you barely imagined. Then 94 00:04:56,814 --> 00:04:58,454 Speaker 3: it will end for a while and you will left 95 00:04:58,494 --> 00:05:01,774 Speaker 3: with nothing but the steering mill. It will feel scary 96 00:05:01,974 --> 00:05:05,094 Speaker 3: like you're alone, but you are not. You're about to 97 00:05:05,094 --> 00:05:07,454 Speaker 3: start a total new journey with the most amazing person 98 00:05:07,454 --> 00:05:08,174 Speaker 3: you've met so far. 99 00:05:08,534 --> 00:05:12,214 Speaker 2: Your son back in Australia and King Charles and Queen 100 00:05:12,214 --> 00:05:15,054 Speaker 2: Camilla head to Canberra today for an official welcome reception. 101 00:05:15,214 --> 00:05:18,094 Speaker 2: After spending the weekend in Sydney, Charles spoke at a 102 00:05:18,094 --> 00:05:21,294 Speaker 2: reception to recognize the bi centenary of the Legislative Council 103 00:05:21,334 --> 00:05:23,974 Speaker 2: of the New South Wales Parliament, telling those gathered what 104 00:05:24,014 --> 00:05:25,974 Speaker 2: a great joy it is to come to Australia for 105 00:05:26,014 --> 00:05:28,374 Speaker 2: the first time as sovereign and to renew a love 106 00:05:28,414 --> 00:05:30,854 Speaker 2: of a country and its people which he says he's 107 00:05:30,934 --> 00:05:34,214 Speaker 2: cherished for so long. The royal couple also attended church 108 00:05:34,254 --> 00:05:37,494 Speaker 2: on Sunday, where both protesters and supporters gathered to spot 109 00:05:37,494 --> 00:05:39,974 Speaker 2: a glimpse of the King and Queen. Some held banners 110 00:05:39,974 --> 00:05:43,814 Speaker 2: at red Empire, built on genocide and decolonize, while others 111 00:05:43,854 --> 00:05:47,774 Speaker 2: held Aboriginal flags. Nearly ninety people have been killed and 112 00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:50,454 Speaker 2: many are missing under the rubble after an Israeli attack 113 00:05:50,494 --> 00:05:53,214 Speaker 2: on a northern town in Gaza. The attack has left 114 00:05:53,214 --> 00:05:55,894 Speaker 2: one of the highest casualty tolls in months in the region. 115 00:05:56,174 --> 00:05:58,854 Speaker 2: The Israeli Defense Force initially saying the toll had been 116 00:05:58,854 --> 00:06:02,094 Speaker 2: exaggerated given the nature of the munitions used in the strike, 117 00:06:02,334 --> 00:06:05,934 Speaker 2: which it says hit a harmast target. Galza's Health Ministry 118 00:06:05,974 --> 00:06:08,334 Speaker 2: says rescue efforts for those who remain trapped to being 119 00:06:08,374 --> 00:06:11,214 Speaker 2: hampered by ongoing MISIS military operations in the area and 120 00:06:11,374 --> 00:06:15,014 Speaker 2: issues with communications. This latest attack puts the death toll 121 00:06:15,054 --> 00:06:18,054 Speaker 2: for Palestinians in Gaza at more than forty two thousand, 122 00:06:18,174 --> 00:06:23,054 Speaker 2: six hundred. It's Kamala Harris's sixtieth birthday, a milestone she'll 123 00:06:23,094 --> 00:06:25,654 Speaker 2: mark with a visit to two churches in Georgia. As 124 00:06:25,734 --> 00:06:28,614 Speaker 2: campaigning moves into the final weeks of the presidential election, 125 00:06:29,134 --> 00:06:31,974 Speaker 2: Harris and Trump, who according to the polls, are essentially 126 00:06:32,094 --> 00:06:34,254 Speaker 2: tied in the race for the top job, have both 127 00:06:34,294 --> 00:06:36,894 Speaker 2: been drumming up support for early voting ahead of the 128 00:06:36,934 --> 00:06:40,574 Speaker 2: November five election, Harris drawing on some musical supporters, she 129 00:06:40,654 --> 00:06:44,654 Speaker 2: travels the country, joined by Lizzo in Detroit, Usher in Atlanta, 130 00:06:44,774 --> 00:06:47,974 Speaker 2: and now Stevie Wonder at a church in Georgia. Meanwhile, 131 00:06:48,014 --> 00:06:51,574 Speaker 2: Donald Trump spent time cooking friars at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. 132 00:06:51,894 --> 00:06:54,614 Speaker 2: The move was reportedly to mock Harris, who says she 133 00:06:54,694 --> 00:06:57,054 Speaker 2: worked at a McDonald's when she was young, for Trump 134 00:06:57,134 --> 00:06:59,974 Speaker 2: says he doesn't believe she did. That's what's happening across 135 00:07:00,014 --> 00:07:02,614 Speaker 2: the globe today. Next, theyanthropy is on the rise in 136 00:07:02,654 --> 00:07:05,534 Speaker 2: Australian children. We find out how parents can learn to 137 00:07:05,614 --> 00:07:08,094 Speaker 2: understand it and why it's not to be confused with 138 00:07:08,174 --> 00:07:22,974 Speaker 2: a growing interest in furredes. In recent years, Australia has 139 00:07:22,974 --> 00:07:27,054 Speaker 2: seen a growing number of children and teenagers identifying as theorians, 140 00:07:27,334 --> 00:07:30,934 Speaker 2: individuals who believe they have a deep spiritual or psychological 141 00:07:30,974 --> 00:07:34,814 Speaker 2: connection to a non human animal. While the exact statistics 142 00:07:34,854 --> 00:07:37,174 Speaker 2: are difficult to pin down due to the private nature 143 00:07:37,174 --> 00:07:41,934 Speaker 2: of theoryanthropy, anecdotal evidence and online community suggests the phenomenon 144 00:07:42,134 --> 00:07:46,174 Speaker 2: is on the rise. Child's psychologist Deirdre Brandna says it's 145 00:07:46,214 --> 00:07:48,334 Speaker 2: something that has been a new thing for her and 146 00:07:48,374 --> 00:07:49,094 Speaker 2: her colleagues. 147 00:07:49,654 --> 00:07:52,774 Speaker 1: The term theorian is a new phenomenon and I would 148 00:07:52,774 --> 00:07:55,214 Speaker 1: have to say that that has not been as common 149 00:07:55,774 --> 00:08:00,014 Speaker 1: in clinical practice in presentation. In my experience and many 150 00:08:00,054 --> 00:08:03,574 Speaker 1: of my colleagues, we did have a presentation of what 151 00:08:03,774 --> 00:08:07,534 Speaker 1: children and adolescents referred to as being a furry. But 152 00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:11,214 Speaker 1: being a furry is very different than being etherian, even 153 00:08:11,214 --> 00:08:15,014 Speaker 1: though they both relate to an animal persona. 154 00:08:15,214 --> 00:08:18,174 Speaker 2: This is an important distinction. Being a furry or being 155 00:08:18,214 --> 00:08:21,614 Speaker 2: interested in furries is not the same as identifying as theian. 156 00:08:22,054 --> 00:08:24,014 Speaker 2: I spoke to a nine year old who's into furries, 157 00:08:24,174 --> 00:08:26,894 Speaker 2: and she explained that she discovered them through playing roadblocks. 158 00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:29,294 Speaker 2: She says she was drawn to the cool designs of 159 00:08:29,294 --> 00:08:32,094 Speaker 2: their avatars and asked her mum to buy her realistic 160 00:08:32,094 --> 00:08:34,134 Speaker 2: looking ears and a tail so that she could dress 161 00:08:34,214 --> 00:08:37,694 Speaker 2: up as animal characters, but she doesn't identify as an 162 00:08:37,694 --> 00:08:42,294 Speaker 2: animal in real life. Veryanthropy, derived from the Greek words 163 00:08:42,294 --> 00:08:45,334 Speaker 2: for beast and human, refers to the belief that one's 164 00:08:45,454 --> 00:08:48,694 Speaker 2: inner self is partially or wholly that of an animal. 165 00:08:49,414 --> 00:08:52,494 Speaker 2: When Emma's daughter told her that she identified as an animal, 166 00:08:52,774 --> 00:08:53,974 Speaker 2: she was taken by surprise. 167 00:08:54,334 --> 00:08:57,054 Speaker 4: I wondered if it was just a passing fad, something 168 00:08:57,134 --> 00:08:59,174 Speaker 4: she'd seen on social media and connected with. 169 00:09:01,294 --> 00:09:03,734 Speaker 2: She explained that her daughter broke down in tears while 170 00:09:03,774 --> 00:09:04,614 Speaker 2: telling her about it. 171 00:09:04,934 --> 00:09:06,654 Speaker 4: I think she had been keeping it to herself for 172 00:09:06,694 --> 00:09:09,414 Speaker 4: a little while and was worried what my reaction would be. 173 00:09:10,414 --> 00:09:14,294 Speaker 2: The reasons behind the theory and trend are complex and multifaceted. 174 00:09:14,934 --> 00:09:18,014 Speaker 2: Some experts point to increased awareness through social media and 175 00:09:18,134 --> 00:09:21,734 Speaker 2: online communities, while others suggest it may be a response 176 00:09:21,774 --> 00:09:26,294 Speaker 2: to feelings of alienation in modern society. However, theians often 177 00:09:26,334 --> 00:09:30,814 Speaker 2: face significant stigma and misunderstanding. Many will keep their identity 178 00:09:30,894 --> 00:09:34,054 Speaker 2: secret for fear of ridicule or rejection, and this fear 179 00:09:34,174 --> 00:09:39,534 Speaker 2: isn't unfounded. Thearians frequently report experiencing bullying, social isolation, and 180 00:09:39,654 --> 00:09:43,014 Speaker 2: dismissal of their identities as just a phase or attention 181 00:09:43,134 --> 00:09:46,734 Speaker 2: seeking behavior. Deirdri says, if this is something your child 182 00:09:46,774 --> 00:09:49,814 Speaker 2: comes to you with, it's really important to understand where 183 00:09:49,814 --> 00:09:52,054 Speaker 2: they're coming from and to ensure that they're safe in 184 00:09:52,094 --> 00:09:52,894 Speaker 2: their exploration. 185 00:09:53,574 --> 00:09:56,694 Speaker 1: Like everything with the children, adolescents often this idea of 186 00:09:56,734 --> 00:09:59,054 Speaker 1: identity and who they are and what they want to 187 00:09:59,094 --> 00:10:01,694 Speaker 1: be in and that can be very vague for children. 188 00:10:02,054 --> 00:10:06,094 Speaker 1: So for parents, our first step needs to be having 189 00:10:06,294 --> 00:10:12,494 Speaker 1: sensible and sensitive conversations with your child about what they're thinking, 190 00:10:12,614 --> 00:10:16,254 Speaker 1: what they're feeling, and where this has come from, where 191 00:10:16,254 --> 00:10:21,654 Speaker 1: this desire to see themselves as an animal that's trapped 192 00:10:21,654 --> 00:10:25,814 Speaker 1: inside this human body. And more importantly, when we're having 193 00:10:25,894 --> 00:10:30,854 Speaker 1: these conversations, we need to be presenting the boundaries that 194 00:10:31,294 --> 00:10:35,214 Speaker 1: this presentation might have with this child and also as parents, 195 00:10:35,454 --> 00:10:38,054 Speaker 1: looking at the risks that are presenting for this child. 196 00:10:40,934 --> 00:10:42,934 Speaker 2: Emma says she did her best to be open to 197 00:10:42,974 --> 00:10:45,774 Speaker 2: the conversation with her daughter after her theory and confession, 198 00:10:46,134 --> 00:10:48,334 Speaker 2: and realize that her role in all of this was 199 00:10:48,374 --> 00:10:49,494 Speaker 2: to simply support her. 200 00:10:50,054 --> 00:10:52,494 Speaker 4: I was worried it was somehow a mental problem or 201 00:10:52,494 --> 00:10:55,174 Speaker 4: a reaction to some other issue in her life. But 202 00:10:55,334 --> 00:10:57,574 Speaker 4: as I've watched it unfold, I see it brings her 203 00:10:57,614 --> 00:11:00,614 Speaker 4: great joy and comfort, and it's an outlet for her too, 204 00:11:00,894 --> 00:11:03,854 Speaker 4: so I'm much less concerned. I keep a watchful eye 205 00:11:03,854 --> 00:11:05,014 Speaker 4: in case this changes. 206 00:11:06,374 --> 00:11:09,854 Speaker 2: Mental health professional stress the importance of providing support and 207 00:11:10,094 --> 00:11:14,174 Speaker 2: understanding rather than ridicule of young people exploring their identity, 208 00:11:14,454 --> 00:11:18,574 Speaker 2: warning that dismissing or mocking these experiences could in itself 209 00:11:18,654 --> 00:11:23,054 Speaker 2: post serious mental health dangers. The therein community has also 210 00:11:23,094 --> 00:11:27,534 Speaker 2: become entangled in broader cultural debates, particularly around gender identity. 211 00:11:28,014 --> 00:11:32,134 Speaker 2: Some right when commentators have drawn parallels between theoryanthropy and 212 00:11:32,294 --> 00:11:37,374 Speaker 2: transgender identities, often in an attempt to delegitimize both. Political 213 00:11:37,374 --> 00:11:41,134 Speaker 2: analyst James Hartley explained that theoryanthropy is being used as 214 00:11:41,134 --> 00:11:45,254 Speaker 2: a rhetorical tool in arguments against gender diversity. He says 215 00:11:45,254 --> 00:11:48,814 Speaker 2: their logic is that if we accept transgender identities, what's 216 00:11:48,854 --> 00:11:52,014 Speaker 2: to stop people identifying as animals? He says it's a 217 00:11:52,054 --> 00:11:55,414 Speaker 2: flawed comparison, but one that's gained traction in certain circles. 218 00:11:56,374 --> 00:11:58,854 Speaker 2: Deirdre says when kids are learning more about who they 219 00:11:58,894 --> 00:12:02,254 Speaker 2: are as a person, they will explore many possibilities as 220 00:12:02,254 --> 00:12:04,934 Speaker 2: the people around them open them up to different experiences, 221 00:12:05,374 --> 00:12:08,014 Speaker 2: but that there is very little connection between children who 222 00:12:08,094 --> 00:12:11,774 Speaker 2: explore theoryanthropy and the those who experience gender dysmorphia. 223 00:12:11,854 --> 00:12:15,894 Speaker 1: Developmentally, children and adolescents in this search for who they are, 224 00:12:15,974 --> 00:12:21,134 Speaker 1: and at a young age, it's about exploring imagination, creativity, 225 00:12:21,454 --> 00:12:24,374 Speaker 1: But as we enter into adolescence then there is more 226 00:12:25,094 --> 00:12:27,614 Speaker 1: a deeper search for who am I, where do I 227 00:12:27,654 --> 00:12:31,334 Speaker 1: fit in, who I belong to? The identification of theory 228 00:12:31,374 --> 00:12:35,134 Speaker 1: in is more about who am I connecting with? Who 229 00:12:35,174 --> 00:12:38,574 Speaker 1: do I want to belong to, more than what gender 230 00:12:38,614 --> 00:12:42,254 Speaker 1: am I? So it does move beyond that there is 231 00:12:42,654 --> 00:12:45,974 Speaker 1: in the adult community. When we look at the data 232 00:12:46,094 --> 00:12:50,494 Speaker 1: of adults who identify as theorians, that group do have 233 00:12:50,734 --> 00:12:55,414 Speaker 1: a greater presentation of those who are transitioning all those 234 00:12:55,494 --> 00:12:59,094 Speaker 1: who are in terms of gender not assigning or not 235 00:12:59,334 --> 00:13:04,094 Speaker 1: identifying as any particular gender. But the relationship is correlational, 236 00:13:04,454 --> 00:13:07,334 Speaker 1: not causal. So I'm not saying that identifying as an 237 00:13:07,374 --> 00:13:10,494 Speaker 1: adolescent as ethereum is then going to me that there'll 238 00:13:10,494 --> 00:13:12,454 Speaker 1: be later issues with gender identity. 239 00:13:14,854 --> 00:13:17,654 Speaker 2: Support groups for parents of theoryans have begun to emerge, 240 00:13:17,694 --> 00:13:21,334 Speaker 2: offering a space to share experiences and advice. These groups 241 00:13:21,374 --> 00:13:25,694 Speaker 2: emphasize the importance of open communication, respect, and seeking professional 242 00:13:25,774 --> 00:13:29,294 Speaker 2: guidance when needed. Diirdri says there isn't a major concern 243 00:13:29,374 --> 00:13:31,934 Speaker 2: for the mental health of children who identify as theory in, 244 00:13:32,334 --> 00:13:34,534 Speaker 2: but parents need to be vigilant and look out for 245 00:13:34,614 --> 00:13:36,254 Speaker 2: if that turns into obsession. 246 00:13:36,774 --> 00:13:39,614 Speaker 1: The only time we need to get concerned about anything 247 00:13:39,774 --> 00:13:44,454 Speaker 1: for children and adolescents is when the obsession becomes so 248 00:13:44,734 --> 00:13:48,334 Speaker 1: excessive that it impacts on their daily life. It impacts 249 00:13:48,334 --> 00:13:53,134 Speaker 1: on their ability to access their education, to interact with 250 00:13:53,254 --> 00:13:58,454 Speaker 1: other children and friends and teenagers, and they're using it 251 00:13:58,574 --> 00:14:03,254 Speaker 1: as a way to avoid the real world, to escaping reality. 252 00:14:06,534 --> 00:14:08,854 Speaker 2: Emma says she isn't worried about her daughter, but that 253 00:14:08,934 --> 00:14:11,534 Speaker 2: if something come up in the course of them discovering 254 00:14:11,534 --> 00:14:14,134 Speaker 2: what her theoryanthropy means for the both of them, she'll 255 00:14:14,134 --> 00:14:16,774 Speaker 2: have to tackle that. If and when it arises. 256 00:14:16,934 --> 00:14:18,814 Speaker 4: We'd have to solve it together, as you can't just 257 00:14:18,854 --> 00:14:21,334 Speaker 4: tell a kid to shut off that part of themselves. 258 00:14:21,494 --> 00:14:23,454 Speaker 4: It would be challenging and I hope it doesn't come 259 00:14:23,494 --> 00:14:25,614 Speaker 4: to that point for us, but we will navigate it 260 00:14:25,614 --> 00:14:28,494 Speaker 4: if we need to. The world is a crazy place. 261 00:14:28,574 --> 00:14:30,534 Speaker 4: We're all just trying to figure it out and work 262 00:14:30,534 --> 00:14:31,214 Speaker 4: out who we are. 263 00:14:32,214 --> 00:14:35,014 Speaker 2: As awareness of theoryanthropy grows, so too does the need 264 00:14:35,054 --> 00:14:39,174 Speaker 2: for education and understanding. Schools. Mental health professionals and community 265 00:14:39,254 --> 00:14:43,254 Speaker 2: organizations are beginning to recognize the importance of creating safe, 266 00:14:43,414 --> 00:14:46,974 Speaker 2: inclusive spaces for young theorians. But like so many things 267 00:14:47,054 --> 00:14:49,694 Speaker 2: we explore as kids that we eventually realize don't serve 268 00:14:49,814 --> 00:14:53,014 Speaker 2: us or suit us, the data shows there's no clear 269 00:14:53,094 --> 00:14:57,054 Speaker 2: evidence that exploring theoryanthropy as a child will automatically mean 270 00:14:57,094 --> 00:14:59,214 Speaker 2: it's something they'll explore later on in life too. 271 00:14:59,774 --> 00:15:03,374 Speaker 1: We don't have lots of clinical data, but what we 272 00:15:03,454 --> 00:15:07,734 Speaker 1: do know is that the onset of identification of theory 273 00:15:07,774 --> 00:15:10,974 Speaker 1: in is usually in your early twink to mid twenties. 274 00:15:11,414 --> 00:15:14,894 Speaker 1: So it would suggest that those children and adolescents who 275 00:15:14,934 --> 00:15:20,134 Speaker 1: are examining this world as an adolescent will not necessarily 276 00:15:20,294 --> 00:15:23,134 Speaker 1: given them minimal amount of data. We have continued to 277 00:15:23,214 --> 00:15:25,054 Speaker 1: identify that into their adulthood. 278 00:15:27,494 --> 00:15:30,254 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Emma is navigating this new part of her daughter's 279 00:15:30,254 --> 00:15:33,734 Speaker 2: life with compassion and curiosity and says she wouldn't change 280 00:15:33,774 --> 00:15:34,374 Speaker 2: it for anything. 281 00:15:34,854 --> 00:15:36,534 Speaker 4: I am proud that she came out to us and 282 00:15:36,574 --> 00:15:39,454 Speaker 4: shared this information. That's a big positive for me and 283 00:15:39,494 --> 00:15:40,734 Speaker 4: I hope that never changes. 284 00:15:42,374 --> 00:15:44,134 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with 285 00:15:44,214 --> 00:15:46,894 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy 286 00:15:46,974 --> 00:15:50,854 Speaker 2: our executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by Tom Line.