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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We

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Speaker 2: have recorded this podcast on the Gatagul people of the

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Speaker 2: Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past

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Speaker 2: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and

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Speaker 2: Torres Strait islander cultures.

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Speaker 3: Hi It's Grace from This Glorious Mess introducing hot Pod Summer.

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Speaker 3: It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Muma

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Speaker 3: Mea network just for you to escape the chaos and

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Speaker 3: enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up.

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Speaker 3: We're going to share some episodes of Little Love Stories.

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Speaker 3: Little Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone

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Speaker 3: who has love to share that love can be anything,

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Speaker 3: a time in someone's life, a person, or even an object.

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Speaker 3: It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So

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Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories.

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Speaker 1: I love you, How you live with your.

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Speaker 3: From Mamma Mia and This Glorious Mess. Welcome to Little

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Speaker 3: Love Stories. I'm Grace Roofraid. On this podcast, we explore

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Speaker 3: love in all its forms, whether it's love for a person,

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Speaker 3: a place, an object, or even a seemingly ordinary moment.

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Speaker 3: Today we're diving into a love story that is as

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Speaker 3: profound as it is powerful, a love letter to identity,

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Speaker 3: culture and.

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Speaker 1: Belonging in summer rooms. I really do feel invisible, but

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Speaker 1: when my people are in that room, like I really

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Speaker 1: do proudly feel like I can be myself. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Natasha Lucas found her place in the world by deeply

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Speaker 3: connecting with her Aboriginal heritage. Whilst her journey of appreciation

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Speaker 3: has been to her ancestors and the elements, it hasn't

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Speaker 3: always been easy. She first encountered racism at just seven

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Speaker 3: years old. Yet Natasha has drawn on strength from the

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Speaker 3: bonds she formed with the incredible women who always seem

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Speaker 3: to arrive at the perfect time.

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Speaker 1: It's a sense of longing that I see others search for,

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Speaker 1: and mine is an inherent birthright. It is why in

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Speaker 1: the darkest times in my life, I've had my sister's

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Speaker 1: white tears from my eyes, sharing their words of wisdom

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Speaker 1: and loving my babies like their own, coming into each

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Speaker 1: other's lives when it's exactly right.

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Speaker 3: In a country where only three point eight percent of

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Speaker 3: the population identifies as Aboriginal, Natasha's journey is one of

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Speaker 3: finding pride, strength, and sisterhood within her culture.

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Speaker 1: There's such an understanding of each other when you're a

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Speaker 1: black fellow. There's just common experiences that just make you

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Speaker 1: be able to connect with someone.

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Speaker 3: Natasha's little love story is one of self love and

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Speaker 3: embracing her Aboriginal heritage and let it be a reminder

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Speaker 3: that true love can be found in the very essence

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Speaker 3: of who you are. But before we get to Natasha's

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Speaker 3: little love story, here's what a little bit of self

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Speaker 3: love sounds like today.

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Speaker 4: Self love for me is kind of hyping myself up

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Speaker 4: a little bit. Sometimes a lot of people my life

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Speaker 4: will tell me how great I am. But words of

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Speaker 4: affirmation is not my love language. So I kind of

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Speaker 4: have to take a moment for myself to give myself

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Speaker 4: that words of affirmation and those words of love.

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Speaker 5: It means forgiving myself. I have struggled with a lot

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Speaker 5: of different mental health challenges and anxiety and depression, and

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Speaker 5: it sometimes stops me from being the person I wish

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Speaker 5: I was, So loving myself means forgiving myself if I

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Speaker 5: can't be exactly who I wish I was.

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Speaker 6: Self love for me is like mothering myself and doing

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Speaker 6: things for me that I know my mum would have

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Speaker 6: done when I was a child, like putting myself to

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Speaker 6: bed at a good time, or making myself a nutritious meal,

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Speaker 6: or getting some fresh air.

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Speaker 1: That is self love.

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Speaker 3: When we've been emailing back and forth, you say Yama

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Speaker 3: at the beginning of every email, is that hello?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's hello, just from where I'm from, Humilliary.

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Speaker 1: Even though we are so united as Aboriginal people, we

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Speaker 1: have our own individual language, you know, we have so

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Speaker 1: many different customs and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: How much is traditional language a part of your everyday life?

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Speaker 1: Not enough? Yeah, I don't think it's incorporated into our

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Speaker 1: lives at all, really, and it's probably still being a

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Speaker 1: bit a bit gatekeeper. They took our language office and

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Speaker 1: now they're sort of selling it back to us in

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Speaker 1: university courses and things like that. It's really really crazy, Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it really is crazy when you think about it, that

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Speaker 1: now I'm having to pay to learn my own language,

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Speaker 1: even now us speaking to each other. When you really

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Speaker 1: unpack it, it's crazy to me that I'm even speaking English

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Speaker 1: to you, and that's just what I was born doing,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I don't know any of my language.

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Speaker 1: Besides you know, small small words here and there that

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Speaker 1: I try to use. It's not something that you inherently do,

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Speaker 1: you know, language is. It's not taught in schools for

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Speaker 1: the most part, and not where I'm from. I'd love

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Speaker 1: to see it revitalized. And I don't think that it

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Speaker 1: needs to stop at Aboriginal people either. I think for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people around me that have passed on

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Speaker 1: their wisdom to me, I would say the fact that

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Speaker 1: for Aboriginal people, a big part of being able to

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Speaker 1: retain our culture is giving some of that away. We

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Speaker 1: do have to share it. So I would love to

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Speaker 1: see it incorporated in our schools. I'd love if my

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Speaker 1: kids were able to speak language. I know that the

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Speaker 1: ages that they are, it's something that could be burned

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Speaker 1: into their brain, you know, something that they could take forever.

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Speaker 1: But it's not something that I even have the tools

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Speaker 1: to teach them. So I'd love for that to be

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Speaker 1: something that could be in the schools.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, instead of just I guess a tokenistic what we

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Speaker 3: learned in school was indigenous music. Oh really, yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: what I remember. And obviously colonization, we've come a long

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Speaker 3: way in terms of how we speak about colonization. I

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Speaker 3: think when I was at school, it was, you know,

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Speaker 3: talking about the first fleet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can remember when I was in year six

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Speaker 1: and we went to the Maritime Museum in Sydney. We

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Speaker 1: were on this boat. There was hammocks everywhere, and like,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I thought it was they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they used to have cats on board because they were mice,

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Speaker 1: and I thought it was pretty deadly, like oh wow,

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Speaker 1: imagine all these people in these hammocks. And then later

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Speaker 1: on I realized it was a replica of the endeavor.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have to laugh when you cry. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was even

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Speaker 1: on that ship. Why was I even on there? That

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Speaker 1: feels so wrong. I can't believe that was just normal.

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Speaker 1: They made it very fluffy.

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Speaker 3: When we first spoke about your little love story, you

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Speaker 3: were going to write an essay to Country, but you

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Speaker 3: changed it. I'd love to talk about the reason as

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Speaker 3: to why you changed it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's like again touching back on the

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Speaker 1: language stuff as well. I don't think it's something that

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Speaker 1: I've been exposed to enough. I haven't been lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to know country, my own country at all. I've been there.

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Speaker 1: I try and go back as much as I can.

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Speaker 1: It's about nine hours from where I live. I don't

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Speaker 1: know country. Knowing country is living, being born on country, living,

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Speaker 1: breathing it, and even where I live now, on dark

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Speaker 1: and young country, I feel like I have a connection

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Speaker 1: to country, but definitely not enough that I could write

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Speaker 1: any kind of letter I wish I could. There are

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Speaker 1: people out there who I live near the ocean, and

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Speaker 1: there are some people that are out of my country

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Speaker 1: that have never seen fresh salt water before. It's a

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Speaker 1: real commitment knowing country, and that's not a commitment that

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Speaker 1: I've earned at all.

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Speaker 3: I did a little research of the country that I'm on,

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Speaker 3: category land, and that it means giant swamp. Oh, And

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Speaker 3: it made a lot of sense because it rains, it floods,

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Speaker 3: and there's just weeds everywhere. It's like, well, of course

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Speaker 3: it's a swamp. Why did we build houses here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: The First Nations people they know that. It's like, no,

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Speaker 3: this is swamp country.

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Speaker 1: Well have you ever heard about the flood of gun Guy?

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Speaker 3: No, but I'd love to know more.

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Speaker 1: There were two black follows ere was they've got a

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Speaker 1: statue in town. There a big valley, you know, and

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Speaker 1: there were big floods, and it was these two men

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Speaker 1: in a boat, these two black follows, that pretty much

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Speaker 1: saved the whole town. And they were told not to

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Speaker 1: build there because of flooding, and it was like one

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Speaker 1: in one hundred year event kind of thing. And these

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Speaker 1: two black follows saved the whole town. Yeah, the whole

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Speaker 1: town was destroyed.

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Speaker 3: In your little love story you have written to your aboriginality,

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Speaker 3: there is a recurring theme of community and family throughout

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Speaker 3: your letter, and I'd love if you could read that

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Speaker 3: part out for me.

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Speaker 1: I have always felt that you were my best feature

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Speaker 1: growing up with cousins that were like siblings. Every adult

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Speaker 1: was an uncle or arnie. You just bring people together

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Speaker 1: like magnets with a powerful magnetic pool. It's a sense

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Speaker 1: of belonging that I see others search for, and mine

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Speaker 1: is an inherent birthright.

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Speaker 3: Because of you.

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Speaker 1: It is why in the darkest times in my life,

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Speaker 1: I have had my sister's white tears from my eyes,

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Speaker 1: sharing their words of wisdom and loving my babies like

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Speaker 1: their own, coming into each other's lives when it's exactly.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, this coming into each other's lives at the

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Speaker 3: exact time. Do you feel like you also do that

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Speaker 3: for your sisters?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely. Growing up, I was raised by a single

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Speaker 1: mother and also by a lot of my arnies, my

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Speaker 1: great arnies. I feel like I was raised by not

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Speaker 1: just one woman. I was raised by many women in

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Speaker 1: my family, and I feel that same responsibility for a

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Speaker 1: lot of my sisters as well. Like their children are

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Speaker 1: like my own children. I really do love and care

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Speaker 1: them like my own and I'm always there for at

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Speaker 1: least I believe that I am. It's such a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little network of women that is created I guess by

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Speaker 1: that common passion that we have and understanding, Like there's

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Speaker 1: such an understanding of each other when you're a black fellow.

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Speaker 1: There's just common experiences that just make you be able

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Speaker 1: to connect with someone. That's really really hard to describe.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I did touch on in some rooms,

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Speaker 1: I really do feel invisible, but when my people are

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Speaker 1: in that room, like I really do proudly feel like

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Speaker 1: I can be myself. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So when people often talk about belonging, it is part

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Speaker 3: of a bigger picture. But in your letter you note

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Speaker 3: that it's only three point eight percent of the population.

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Speaker 3: You go through life with your sisters, your community, the

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Speaker 3: people who make you feel like you're not invisible. You

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Speaker 3: talk about both the highs and the lows of that.

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Speaker 3: Could you read that part of your letter?

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Speaker 1: Because of you, I feel connected to three point eight

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Speaker 1: percent of the population, and with that we go through

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Speaker 1: the many highs and lows. Together. We're like a big

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Speaker 1: old gum tree, resilient through the harshest conditions, so big,

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Speaker 1: so strong. I reckon the type of gum tree with

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Speaker 1: roots above the soil that you always trip over, just

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Speaker 1: to remind you that part in particular, come from every

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Speaker 1: single day that I picked my daughter up from school.

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Speaker 1: There actually is a gum tree and the roots. Every

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Speaker 1: single day I trip over them. I don't think I'm

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Speaker 1: the only one. And every single time, especially now that

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Speaker 1: I've written that, it makes me think of it and smile.

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Speaker 3: I love this visual sense of connection that you talk about.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything when you close your eyes do you

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Speaker 3: see the roots or what are the other types of

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Speaker 3: connections that you think of when you're connecting to the

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Speaker 3: three point eight percent?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think everything does come back to all of that,

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Speaker 1: even culturally, everything does have a story when you connect

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Speaker 1: more with culture and your identity and you are a

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Speaker 1: bit more in tune with your surroundings. I guess I

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Speaker 1: do visualize things in a little bit of a different way.

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Speaker 1: I could probably be seen as a bit woo woo

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Speaker 1: in you know, a non aboriginal sense. I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: describing myself like Cinderella or something. But I do really

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, a lot of things are messages

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Speaker 1: and things like that. Being able to notice at the

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Speaker 1: moment that there's beautiful wattle, yellow wattle. At the moment

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Speaker 1: it's about mindfulness and connecting and all of those things

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Speaker 1: make me really really happy and noticing those changes, being

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Speaker 1: in tune with everything around you. So yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: that kind of imagery. I do think about it a lot,

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Speaker 1: because it's a part of my existence. I will every

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Speaker 1: day from now on that I trip over that tree.

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Speaker 1: I will always think that. And that's what I hope

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Speaker 1: that other people that have read that or listening, I

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Speaker 1: hope that that happens to them where they remember what

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Speaker 1: I've written.

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Speaker 3: I love that there is this of pride when you

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Speaker 3: talk about it. When you talk about the tree, you

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Speaker 3: talk about the roots, you talk about being connected to

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Speaker 3: your sisters, to your brothers, being connected to the three

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Speaker 3: point eight percent.

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Speaker 1: I really do feel so proud of being Aboriginal, really

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Speaker 1: often mind blown by just how incredible it is being Aboriginal.

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Speaker 1: When I look back, it's just incredible to me, just

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Speaker 1: our existence with megafauna, even thinking about ancestors that may

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Speaker 1: have seen coal for the first time. Thinking back and

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Speaker 1: closing your eyes and thinking about the old people, you

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Speaker 1: get so lost. But we're just an incredible people. And

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Speaker 1: even you know, we had the freedom Rides in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, which was all from protests, and then from

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Speaker 1: that you think of all the incredible things that people

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Speaker 1: have done, like the Aboriginal Medical Service, Aboriginal Legal Service,

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Speaker 1: like all the strength and resilience is just incredible. Even today,

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Speaker 1: after I leave, I go every week up to Frank Baxter,

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Speaker 1: the Youth Correctional facility, and they have young Aboriginal boys there.

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Speaker 1: We have a group every week because obviously incarceration rates

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Speaker 1: are really really higher, so the number of Aboriginal boys

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Speaker 1: up there is sad.

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Speaker 3: What do you do with that group?

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Speaker 1: I'd say it like providing a sense of belonging. That's

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Speaker 1: what it is. I've been going up there for a

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Speaker 1: little bit now, and I guess that's one thing that

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Speaker 1: stands out is a lot of these young ones, that's

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Speaker 1: what they can be searching for, that sense of belonging.

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Speaker 1: And as Aboriginal people, that's what we have a born

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Speaker 1: right too. We have a born right to have a

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Speaker 1: sense of belonging. They all call you mam and miss,

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Speaker 1: and it's so funny. But I go up there in

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Speaker 1: the high risk unit and do weaving with them and

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Speaker 1: do reflective practice, and because with weaving, I guess a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is about mindfulness and being reflective, and

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Speaker 1: I guess that transfers a little bit into their lives.

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Speaker 1: And that's been really, really great, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: bec because when you go back and you're sitting with

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Speaker 1: these boys and you're talking about who they're safe people are,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, they'll say they're Arnies or their

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Speaker 1: nan you know, strong Aboriginal women. Going there and providing

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Speaker 1: that sense of belonging for these boys is you just

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Speaker 1: have to deal with getting called mam and miss. You

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Speaker 1: can tell they absolutely love it. And even when you

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Speaker 1: do end up seeing the boys in the community and

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Speaker 1: they say hello Toia, like it is a really really

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Speaker 1: nice feeling, Like you realize the value in just being yourself,

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Speaker 1: just being me, just being an Aboriginal person with my experiences,

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Speaker 1: my life experiences. How that can give someone a sense

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Speaker 1: of belonging and feel heard and feel seen just that

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Speaker 1: common thread. How special that can feel when you can

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Speaker 1: really feel alone in this country, you really can, and

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Speaker 1: you can feel growing up like I have my first

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Speaker 1: interaction with racism when I was like six or seven

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Speaker 1: or something, Like I knew I was different from quite

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Speaker 1: a young age, that something was different about me, even

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Speaker 1: when you're going through those teenagers, Like you can see

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Speaker 1: my hair is so curly and so different, I'm so hairy.

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Speaker 1: I'm just different. You think of what I would have

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Speaker 1: been in the two thousands, and you think of like

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Speaker 1: Niki Webster, you think of all these people like I

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Speaker 1: can't be that. The whole dominant narrative just tries to,

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Speaker 1: I guess, push it down, like there's things that I

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Speaker 1: just can't compete with as an Aboriginal woman. I'm about

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Speaker 1: ten steps behind non Aboriginal people. And I feel strong

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Speaker 1: that I do, feel so proud. So I feel like

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Speaker 1: the dominant narrative really doesn't want me to be like that.

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Speaker 3: You talk about the uncomfortability of the white middle aged

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Speaker 3: man in your letter. I think it's important to reference

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Speaker 3: the part of your letter that you talk about the

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Speaker 3: term aboriginal and where it comes from. I'd love for

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Speaker 3: you to read that part out.

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Speaker 1: The ancestors had never as much as whispered the word

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Speaker 1: aboriginal for up to eighty five thousand years before the

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Speaker 1: colonization of this land. With over two hundred and fifty mobs,

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Speaker 1: three hundred languages, and around eight hundred dialects, the differences

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Speaker 1: came with a rich and individual law and culture. The

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Speaker 1: word aboriginal, we're all guilty of wanting to know what

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Speaker 1: our names mean, right, is derived from the Latin word aborigines,

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Speaker 1: meaning original inhabitants, a name bestowed upon us by the colonizers,

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Speaker 1: while they simultaneously claimed terranalius, a strange twist that remains

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Speaker 1: my Roman empire. It is ironic, you are a blanket

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Speaker 1: term used to describe us, used to racially profile stereotype us.

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Speaker 1: To this day. They created something called the Aborigines Protection Act,

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Speaker 1: And I know what you're thinking. It wasn't there to

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Speaker 1: protect yet. The word Aboriginal has been something that unites

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Speaker 1: us all and through two hundred and thirty years of

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Speaker 1: resistance and advocacy, stunning your name for all Aboriginal people.

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Speaker 3: It's a very complex and painful word. And what is

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Speaker 3: your relationship with the word Aboriginal now?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's strange because over the years, we've

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Speaker 1: been called a lot of things, and I know now

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Speaker 1: a lot of people say indigenous, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: say First Nation. Some people aren't even really comfortable with

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Speaker 1: the word Aboriginal. Some people prefer indigenous or First Nation.

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Speaker 1: For me, indigenous feels like more of a government word.

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Speaker 1: I connect first Nations, I guess, but more America. Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: feels probably more comfortable to me. That's just something that's

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Speaker 1: always defined me. Yeah, I'm just Aboriginal. I'm Aboriginal, tash.

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Speaker 1: That's even what I get At times. I guess as well, Aboriginal,

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Speaker 1: if I take it back. I didn't really know where

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Speaker 1: I was from for quite some time while my pot

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Speaker 1: was alive. He was taken when he was a young boy,

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Speaker 1: taken to Kinchella Boy's home, and like he was really

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Speaker 1: dehumanized and did not have much to do with his culture.

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up knowing what country I was from

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. And once he passed away, our

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Speaker 1: family did a little bit more of investigating because it's

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Speaker 1: something that clearly traumatized him. He didn't ever speak about it.

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Speaker 1: And once he passed that something that you know, we

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Speaker 1: all connected those dots. So I guess Aboriginal really did

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Speaker 1: define me in a lot of ways until I was

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Speaker 1: a woman, and when I could find out where I

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Speaker 1: was properly from and I could identify as a Uali,

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Speaker 1: I woman, as Miri ar Bara.

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Speaker 3: And why did you choose to write this letter now?

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Speaker 3: Like we said, it's so complex where Australia is in

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Speaker 3: that post the Voice era, but there is still so

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Speaker 3: much joy. There's a lot of intimacy in your letter.

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Speaker 3: So why did you write this story now?

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Speaker 1: It is that one true love that's always been there

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Speaker 1: for me. And I think of how much it has

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Speaker 1: howered me as a woman, How having mob around me,

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Speaker 1: how having those beautiful sisters around me, By being raised

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Speaker 1: by these amazing women, you feel so empowered by seeing

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Speaker 1: so many other black fellows around you do amazing things.

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Speaker 1: I feel like being Aboriginal doesn't so much feel like

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Speaker 1: a difference. It feels like an amazing superpower. It feels

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Speaker 1: amazing Historically within I think the first ten years of colonization,

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Speaker 1: around seventy percent to ninety percent of Aboriginal people were

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Speaker 1: wiped out, and I always just think of from that

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Speaker 1: small percentage the survival in that, just the amazing survival

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Speaker 1: in that. I feel like we're all here for a purpose,

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Speaker 1: and I would love to see all Black fellows really

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Speaker 1: reminded of that and empowered by that. We have all

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Speaker 1: got something amazing to give. As Aboriginal people, We've got

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Speaker 1: a lot to teach. We are a beautiful cult, especially

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Speaker 1: in these times. I think a lot of people could

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Speaker 1: learn from that.

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Speaker 3: Natasha, what does love mean to you?

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Speaker 1: I will say that for me, it is respect in culture,

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Speaker 1: something that you're always taught is being able to respect

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Speaker 1: each other and with our life experiences making up who

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Speaker 1: we are. I think if we respect that with each other,

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Speaker 1: you know, you always learn something. We're all very different,

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Speaker 1: and especially in a nation where again as Aboriginal people,

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Speaker 1: we're probably put against each other a bit. Like you

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Speaker 1: think of the creation of leaning counsels and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we can sometimes repitted against each other.

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Speaker 1: I think if we just respect each other's differences, I

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Speaker 1: think we could see a lot of change.

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Speaker 3: That's beautiful and that's a perfect place to end it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on to Little Love Stories, Natasha.

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Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure to hear your story and thank

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Speaker 3: you for sharing it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: You can read Natasha's full Little Love Story essay, which

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Speaker 3: will be dropped into our episode show notes. If you

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00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:24,250
Speaker 3: have a story you'd like to share, you've got a

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00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:27,290
Speaker 3: bit of love, some gratitude for someone or something, we

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00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:29,290
Speaker 3: would love to hear it. We're always on the lookout

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Speaker 3: for great stories and new perspectives. You can submit your

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Speaker 3: story to us by leaving a voice note or email us.

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Speaker 3: All the details are in the show notes. Little Love

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Speaker 3: Stories is produced by me Grace Rufray, with audio production

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00:22:40,650 --> 00:22:43,930
Speaker 3: by Lou Hill. If you're looking for something else to

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Speaker 3: listen to, Mumma Me who is presenting one hundred hours

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00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:51,290
Speaker 3: of summer listens from meaningful conversations, incredible stories, fashion, beauty,

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Speaker 3: and a bit of silliness. There's a link to more

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Speaker 3: things to listen to in the show notes.