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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy.

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Speaker 2: This is Mamma MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie.

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Speaker 2: Just before we kick off today, we're talking about substance

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Speaker 2: abuse and addiction, so if that's a tough topic for you,

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Speaker 2: please take care when listening. Jackie O Henderson's memoir The

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Speaker 2: Whole Truth hit bookshelves across the country yesterday, but not

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Speaker 2: a single dollar of profit. We'll be lining the radio

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Speaker 2: stars pockets today. We'll look at how Jackie O, a

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Speaker 2: store ward of the Australian radio scene for decades, did

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Speaker 2: everything she could to keep her addictions secret, and how

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Speaker 2: finally going public with the details has caused a ripple

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Speaker 2: effect that will see the money from that book go

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Speaker 2: to help those who find themselves in the same place

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Speaker 2: she did back then. But before we do that, here's

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Speaker 2: the letters from the Quikie newsroom. Wednesday, October thirty, rapper

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Speaker 2: fifty Cent has revealed that he turned down an offer

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Speaker 2: worth millions to perform form at the Trump rally at

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Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden on the weekend, fifty Cent, whose real

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Speaker 2: name is Curtis Jackson, told iHeartRadio's The Breakfast Club that

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Speaker 2: he was offered three million dollars US to appear at

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Speaker 2: the rally, where twenty thousand people gathered to hear from

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Speaker 2: a host of speakers, saying he's afraid of politics and

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Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter how you feel someone passionately disagrees

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Speaker 2: with you. He has tweeted in the past that he

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Speaker 2: thinks Donald Trump is going to be president again. The

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Speaker 2: Trump campaign started using fifty cent song Many Men Wish

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Speaker 2: Death at their rallies after an attempted assassination targeted Trump

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Speaker 2: earlier this year. The song is about the rapper's own

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Speaker 2: shooting back in the year two thousand. Fifty Cent posted

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Speaker 2: the cover of the album that that song is on,

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Speaker 2: with Trump's face superimposed over his own. Legendary Ossie broadcaster

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Speaker 2: Andrew Denton is calling for the laws around voluntary assisted

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Speaker 2: dying to be overhauled, saying inappropriate attitudes and unnecessary barriers

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Speaker 2: are making it hard for terminally ill people to access it.

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Speaker 2: Voluntary assisted dying is now legal in six states and

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Speaker 2: the ac TIS, but while it's increasingly accepted by health

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Speaker 2: care providers. Denton says some doctors are forced to travel

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Speaker 2: thousands of kilometers to assess patients, and some patients end

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Speaker 2: up in institutions that conscientiously object to it, so they

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Speaker 2: lose the ability to access it or are told if

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Speaker 2: they want to they have to leave the facility. Denton

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Speaker 2: says the laws have been made so conservative they're not

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Speaker 2: fit for purpose. Legal prohibitions in Victoria and South Australia

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Speaker 2: also prevent healthcare professionals from even starting the conversation with

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Speaker 2: their patients, so if they're unaware that it's an option,

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Speaker 2: there's no way to educate them about it without breaking

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Speaker 2: the law. Federal laws also make it a criminal offense

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Speaker 2: to discuss the options via telehealth or online, meaning those

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Speaker 2: who live in rural and remote locations are even more disadvantaged.

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Speaker 2: The new Queensland government is looking at immediately banning pill

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Speaker 2: testing at events, with concerns it will impact schoolies. That's

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Speaker 2: set to begin in just a few weeks. An eighty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollar government funded pill testing program was set to

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Speaker 2: be rolled out on the Gold Coast as school leavers

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Speaker 2: to disc but the new Liberal National Coalition government led

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Speaker 2: by Premier David Chris a Fully says they're awaiting advice

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Speaker 2: on pill testing bands, saying his government does not support it.

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Speaker 2: Queensland is one of only three jurisdictions in the country

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Speaker 2: to have legalized pill testing, the former government introducing it

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Speaker 2: following the deaths of two people in their twenties at

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Speaker 2: a festival in twenty nineteen. The celebrity Halloween costumes are

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Speaker 2: starting to emerge for twenty twenty four, with Game of

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Speaker 2: Throne star Sophie Turner bringing some Matrix vibes. The twenty

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Speaker 2: eight year old posted to Instagram from a party on Saturday,

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Speaker 2: dressed in a version of the Matrix character Trinity's latex

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Speaker 2: black bodysuit, with her hair slicked back in small square sunglasses.

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Speaker 2: She paired it with a long black coat and a

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Speaker 2: pair of toy guns, one on each hip. She captured

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Speaker 2: the post red or blue pill in a nod to

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Speaker 2: the iconic movies. Selena Gomez has also debuted her costume

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Speaker 2: this year, dressing as Alice in Wonderland, Drag Queen, Trixie

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Speaker 2: Mattel became Daphne from Scooby Doo, and Anne Hathaway dressed

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Speaker 2: as Boo York City, a goth version of the Statue

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Speaker 2: of Liberty. We're still waiting for Heidi Klum's iconic ensemble

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Speaker 2: for this year. That's what's happening in the world today.

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Speaker 2: Next a radio stars confession has led to an outpouring

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Speaker 2: of storytelling that shows just how much assies are struggling

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Speaker 2: with substance abuse. Recently, Jackie O, the co host of

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Speaker 2: The Kyle and Jackie O Radio Show, took a moment

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Speaker 2: to discuss a very personal struggle. Reading from her new

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Speaker 2: memoir The Whole Truth, she admitted to something she's kept

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Speaker 2: quiet for two years.

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Speaker 1: The show is over for this week. Job done. We're

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Speaker 1: almost at the end of the year two, with three

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Speaker 1: weeks to go until the summer break. But I know

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Speaker 1: I won't make it that far. I'm hanging on by

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Speaker 1: a thread. I lean into the microphone with one final

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Speaker 1: thing I need to say. I need to pre record

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Speaker 1: a message for our audience, something to be played on

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Speaker 1: Monday morning during the first show break. Listeners will hear

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Speaker 1: my voice and think it's coming to them live, that

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking to all of Sydney from my little patch

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Speaker 1: within Sydney, But in reality, I'll already be half a

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Speaker 1: world away. I need to leave immediately for reasons that

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Speaker 1: will soon become clear. I'll be checking into the Betty

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Speaker 1: Ford Center in Ranch Home Garage. I'll be spending twenty

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Speaker 1: eight days there, voluntarily enrolled in a twelve step program

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Speaker 1: there to treat the substance dependence and drug addiction. I've

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Speaker 1: been able to keep secret for three long and paid

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Speaker 1: four years.

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Speaker 2: She opened up about her battle with drug addiction, specifically

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Speaker 2: to painkillers, sleeping pills, and alcohol. The presenter sharing details

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Speaker 2: about the turbulent time in her life during which she

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Speaker 2: was consuming twenty four potent coating tablets, fourteen still not

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Speaker 2: sleeping pills and drinking alcohol daily.

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Speaker 1: When you're in the middle of an addiction like I was,

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Speaker 1: and it warps your way of thinking. And I was

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Speaker 1: in this horrible existence that I thought was the best

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Speaker 1: thing ever. I thought, this is the best it's going

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Speaker 1: to get.

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Speaker 3: At.

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Speaker 2: Marshall, who helped The Star write the memoir, told The

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Speaker 2: Sydney Morning Herald that Jackie revealed her slide into addiction

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Speaker 2: started seven years ago, the same time her marriage was

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Speaker 2: breaking down. She explained that it was a way of

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Speaker 2: relieving stress and sadness, but things took a turn after

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Speaker 2: moving into her palatial home in Wallara in Sydney, which

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Speaker 2: she bought in twenty twenty on the cusp of the

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Speaker 2: pandemic lockdowns, she describes it as her own version of

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Speaker 2: hell because of how quickly she spiraled in that house.

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Speaker 2: She says she went deep into addiction there, claiming it's

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Speaker 2: a beautiful place that it felt like a fortress like

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Speaker 2: her own concrete prison. Despite her public life and very

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Speaker 2: public job, she managed to hide her addiction issues well

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Speaker 2: with those close to her, rationalizing it that it must

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Speaker 2: be the stress of divorce on top of her four

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Speaker 2: am start time that were contributing to some out of

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Speaker 2: character behavior. But when she began to forget conversations and

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Speaker 2: frequently not off to sleep, Najer, Jemma O'Neill and personal

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Speaker 2: assistant Britney Woodford knew something wasn't right. Woodford tried leaving

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Speaker 2: gentle notes around the house, nudging Jackie to get help,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't until November sixth, twenty twenty two that

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Speaker 2: things would change for the radio host. It was that

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Speaker 2: day that her supplier called and said they'd been caught

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Speaker 2: and he could no longer provide her with the black

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Speaker 2: market prescription medication she was taking. A desperate Jackie Oh

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Speaker 2: called her friend Jemma and told her everything.

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Speaker 1: I was never going to go. I wasn't. I was

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Speaker 1: in tears one day and I had to tell Jemma.

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Speaker 1: For reasons that are in the book. It came to

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Speaker 1: a head, and she was such a great friend. She said,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Jackie, but you are not going to taper off.

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Speaker 1: It will never work. I'm checking you into rehab at

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Speaker 1: the end of the week and we're going. And I said,

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Speaker 1: don't be ridiculous, Gemma, like that is such overkill. And

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Speaker 1: she said, no, we're going, and we're doing it. I

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Speaker 1: believe she saved my life. I actually do.

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Speaker 2: The then forty nine year old radio star told listeners

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Speaker 2: she was suffering from long COVID, took sickly from her

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Speaker 2: job for a month and flew to the US for treatment. There,

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Speaker 2: she went through a twelve step month long program at

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Speaker 2: the Betty Ford Center in Palm Springs. She detoxed experienced

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Speaker 2: everything from nausea to insomnia, sweats, and diarrhea. Despite her doubts, though,

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Speaker 2: she came out the other side stronger, saying she'd actually

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Speaker 2: been adamant that while she was going to come out

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Speaker 2: of rehab, she was still going to drink. She didn't

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Speaker 2: want to be sober her whole life. She said, the

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Speaker 2: thought of that was quite depressing. However, she realized that

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Speaker 2: it had to be all or nothing, saying she would

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Speaker 2: have leaned on alcohol, using that as her form of

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Speaker 2: escape instead of pills. Until Thursday last week, JACKIEO had

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Speaker 2: kept this part of her life entirely to herself, but

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Speaker 2: with the release of her memoir imminent, she decided to

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Speaker 2: share the truth of it all to her show's audience.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's important that we share these things

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Speaker 1: and get rid of the shame that might be attached

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 2: After this very public admission, the story started to flood

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Speaker 2: into Jackieo's dms and posts, thanking her for sharing, wishing

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Speaker 2: her well in her recovery, and admitting that many of

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Speaker 2: them also dealt with this issue but didn't have the

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Speaker 2: means to go to rehab and get the help they

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Speaker 2: need it. After reading so many people admitting the same thing,

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Speaker 2: Jackie OH made a big move. She posted this to Instagram.

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Speaker 4: Since sharing my story last week, I've been deeply moved

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Speaker 4: by the thousands of messages I've received from people facing

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Speaker 4: challenges similar to mine but are unable to afford rehab.

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Speaker 4: I was fortunate enough to have access to treatment, and

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Speaker 4: I recognize how privileged that makes me. Unfortunately, not everyone

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Speaker 4: has the same opportunity, which is why all my profits

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Speaker 4: from this book will be donated to Odissey House Drug

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Speaker 4: and Alcohol Rehabilitation Center. Odyssey House provides life changing support

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Speaker 4: to individuals seeking treatment but who are struggling financially. I'm

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Speaker 4: grateful for the important work they do, and I'm honored

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Speaker 4: to donate all my profits from my book to this

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Speaker 4: incredible organization. The work they do is powerful, important, and transformative.

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Speaker 4: Thank you to everyone who's shared their personal stories with me.

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Speaker 4: I'm still reading through your messages and will do my

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Speaker 4: best to respond to each one. Your honesty and support

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Speaker 4: means the world to me.

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Speaker 2: Jackie, So, how much does rehab actually cost? How do

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Speaker 2: they operate? And how do you even get yourself or

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Speaker 2: someone you love there in the first place. Carmel Tebbett

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Speaker 2: is the CEO of Odyssey House. He'll be receiving the

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Speaker 2: profits from Jackie Oh's book. Carmel, did you have any

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Speaker 2: idea that Jackie was going to do? This.

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Speaker 3: We did not. It absolutely came out of the blue

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Speaker 3: and we are just so thrilled and so grateful to

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Speaker 3: Jackie for her generosity. I can't state what a difference

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Speaker 3: this will make to the people that we support. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Obviously we don't have a dollar value because it's the

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Speaker 2: profit from the book sales. But what does any extra

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Speaker 2: funding mean for you an Odyssey House.

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Speaker 3: We're funded by government to provide a range of services,

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Speaker 3: both in the community and residential programs, but we also

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Speaker 3: rely on philanthropy and fundraising to do more because government

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Speaker 3: can't fund all of the need that there is, so

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Speaker 3: to receive supports such as this makes a huge difference.

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Speaker 3: It means that we can support more people, it means

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Speaker 3: that we can provide a better quality of service and

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Speaker 3: fundamentally shows that people recognize the need for the work

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Speaker 3: that we do.

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Speaker 2: Come well, can you give us some insight on how

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Speaker 2: rehab actually works here in Australia. For the majority of

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Speaker 2: us who haven't had someone go through it or been

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Speaker 2: through it ourselves, it's probably TV and movies that are

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Speaker 2: our main experience with rehab. So how does it work here?

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Speaker 2: Is it something like you can be forced to go

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Speaker 2: to or does it have to be voluntary? How does

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Speaker 2: it work?

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Speaker 3: It works best when the individual recognizes that they need

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Speaker 3: that support and they're prepared to put the time and

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Speaker 3: emotional commitment into attending a rehabilitation service. I should just

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Speaker 3: say that treatment for drug and alcohol use in Australia

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Speaker 3: and in other countries, it varies, so it can go

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Speaker 3: all the way from individual counseling attending a group program

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Speaker 3: like Alcoholics Anonymous is one that people are aware of

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Speaker 3: AA right through to residential rehab where someone lives on

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Speaker 3: site at a facility and undertakes their rehabilitation with a

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Speaker 3: group of other people. And again, even residential rehab can

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Speaker 3: vary from a one month program to a program like

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Speaker 3: the Oddity House program that goes for nine months, so

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Speaker 3: it is varied. But with regards to residential rehab, some

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Speaker 3: people are court ordered to attend a residential rehabilitation program,

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Speaker 3: so you may have heard of the drug court. If

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Speaker 3: people have committed particular types of offenses, they can be

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Speaker 3: required to attend residential rehab instead of a custodial sentence.

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Speaker 3: But for voluntary admissions, the person themselves usually makes that choice,

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Speaker 3: but certainly what we see at our facility is that

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Speaker 3: there's often a lot of family involvement in trying to

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Speaker 3: encourage a person to recognize that they've really reached a

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Speaker 3: stage where they need external help and they need to really,

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Speaker 3: I guess, remove themselves from some of the community impacts

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Speaker 3: that are leading to their addiction, and that's where residential

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Speaker 3: rehabilitation can make a real difference. We know there is

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Speaker 3: increasing demand for drug and alcohol services, and certainly we've

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Speaker 3: seen almost doubling in the number of our community inquiries

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Speaker 3: in the past twelve months for our services, so the

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Speaker 3: need is certainly there.

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Speaker 2: It's not an easy job. I imagine carme, Well, you're dealing

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Speaker 2: with people who are fighting serious demons, potentially mental health issues, traumas.

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Speaker 2: What makes you passionate about helping people in this space?

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Speaker 3: I think I've always been motivated by wanting to make

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Speaker 3: a difference to the community in which I live, and

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Speaker 3: I've chosen different ways to do that throughout my life.

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Speaker 3: But the thing that is really so inspiring about working

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Speaker 3: in drug and alcohol is that when you see the

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Speaker 3: difference that our services can make to someone's life, when

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Speaker 3: you see someone turn their life around, someone who's really

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Speaker 3: hit rock bottom. They've come to us absolutely desperate for help,

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Speaker 3: tried a lot of other things, it hasn't worked, and

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Speaker 3: then after three months in the program they really start

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Speaker 3: to blossom. After nine months they're graduating. That's incredibly rewarding

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Speaker 3: to see that. I find that amazing, and the work

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Speaker 3: that our staff do to contribute to that recovery journey

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Speaker 3: is truly extraordinary. Just on the weekend, we had a

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Speaker 3: graduation ceremony for some of our residents who graduated our program,

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Speaker 3: and to hear their stories and just to see the

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Speaker 3: joy on their and their famili's face as they graduate.

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Speaker 3: Nothing else is like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested to know what happens after because obviously, when

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Speaker 2: you go to rehab, you go through this nine month program,

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Speaker 2: but you still got your whole life on the other

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Speaker 2: side of that, potentially open to triggers or to you know,

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Speaker 2: other motivations to go back to drinking or taking drugs.

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Speaker 2: What happens after rehab.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very good question, because it is a

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Speaker 3: very difficult process, and we often say that in fact,

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Speaker 3: the hard work begins after you graduate, because you've then

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Speaker 3: got to go back into the real world, and we

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Speaker 3: really work hard to ensure that when people are going

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Speaker 3: through our program, we will in the issues that contribute

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Speaker 3: to their addiction, whether it be alcohol or drugs, and

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Speaker 3: there's usually a lot of underlying issues. They might be

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Speaker 3: mental health issues, they might be trauma issues, they may

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Speaker 3: be poor schooling and never having the opportunity to develop

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Speaker 3: the skills to be able to move around in the

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Speaker 3: world capably, so we really work on that. We have

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Speaker 3: a college at Odyssey House and we try and ensure

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Speaker 3: that we equip people with the skills and capabilities that

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Speaker 3: they need to make a success of their recovery in

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Speaker 3: the long term. We also offer follow up support, so

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Speaker 3: people may do the rehab program residentially and then continue

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Speaker 3: to go to a group once a week after that.

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Speaker 3: They keep in touch with their peers and we have

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Speaker 3: a graduate support network. So we do as much as

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Speaker 3: we can to try and ensure that support is there

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Speaker 3: in the long term for people, because it is a

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Speaker 3: very tough road and addiction stays with you and you've

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Speaker 3: really got to fight hard every day to not give

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Speaker 3: into it. So we're really conscious of that, and we

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Speaker 3: do see people who relapse. We do see people who

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Speaker 3: go through the program and then find that they are

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Speaker 3: something triggers them and they have a relapse and they

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Speaker 3: come back and they do it again. And sometimes it

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Speaker 3: takes people to gooes, but it can be life changing.

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Speaker 3: And to have the support that Jackie's provided to be

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Speaker 3: able to do that for more people, really that is

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Speaker 3: extraordinary for Odyssey House because we know that our services

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Speaker 3: make a difference, we know that we transform lives, but

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Speaker 3: we want to be able to do that for more people.

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Speaker 3: So it's really exciting to have that opportunity.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting that group support that comes from peers

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Speaker 2: within these centers. Because I was walking with a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine who's been to rehab and is out the

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Speaker 2: other side of it now, and we'll walk in the

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Speaker 2: city and she stopped me and put her hand on

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Speaker 2: my arm and she said, oh, just give me a second.

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Speaker 2: And I was a bit concerned. I was like, are

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Speaker 2: you okay? What's happening? And then she said to me, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I just saw someone. She didn't want to point them

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Speaker 2: out because she didn't want to make it public, but

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Speaker 2: she'd seen someone from her group who seemed to be intoxicated,

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Speaker 2: and she was really concerned about them, and she said

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Speaker 2: she's going to follow that up, so it's not just

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Speaker 2: your counselor who's looking out for you. Potentially all your

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Speaker 2: peers within that group are also keeping an eye out

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Speaker 2: for you too.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely true, and we find that is one of

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Speaker 3: the strongest elements of the Odyssey House residential program because

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Speaker 3: it is a community, and the community is made up

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Speaker 3: of the residents and the staff, but the residents are

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Speaker 3: really looking out for each other, supporting each other both

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Speaker 3: through the program. I mean, we have a structured program,

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Speaker 3: so there's three levels to it, and so people who've

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Speaker 3: been there longer the seniors will support the new people

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Speaker 3: as they arrive and help them manage the journey. But

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Speaker 3: also when they leave the program, there's a real peer

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Speaker 3: support network and they all know what each other's been through.

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Speaker 3: They know how to step in and provide that support,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's really important and really critical in

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Speaker 3: terms of people making that successful recovery.

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Speaker 2: Just finally, Camel, what if someone's listening to this and

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Speaker 2: knows that they need help, or they've got a loved

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Speaker 2: one who does what would you say are the first

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Speaker 2: best steps to take?

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Speaker 3: Each case is unique, so it's difficult to give generalist advice,

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Speaker 3: but certainly if a loved one is dealing with a child,

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Speaker 3: or a parent, or a brother or sister who's got

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Speaker 3: dragon alcohol issues, I really think having that conversation with

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Speaker 3: them really trying to encourage them to see that they

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Speaker 3: need support reaching out for support. We have qualified assessors

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Speaker 3: on our phone line, for example, and they will talk

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Speaker 3: through with a parent or someone else about what are

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Speaker 3: the options for supporting their loved one. If individuals ring in,

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Speaker 3: we'll talk through with them, and other services provide the same.

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Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily pushing the Odyssey House Helpline, although we

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Speaker 3: do an amazing job, but there is support there. People

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Speaker 3: need to reach out, have the conversation and really look

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Speaker 3: at what the options are. Because presidential rehab won't work

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Speaker 3: for everyone. Sometimes people have got to try different things.

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Speaker 3: The important thing is take the first step reach out

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Speaker 3: for support, because there is help available, and I'm always

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Speaker 3: amazed when I read the stories of our clients and

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Speaker 3: wish that they had have done it earlier.

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Speaker 2: I asked that friend that I mentioned, the one who'd

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Speaker 2: stopped me on the street, about how much it had

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Speaker 2: cost her to go to rehab, noting that this happened

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Speaker 2: for her several years ago. She said from memory, it

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Speaker 2: was somewhere around twenty five thousand dollars for the four

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Speaker 2: weeks day, broken down to around nine hundred to one

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a day for treatment, therapy, food, and accommodation.

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Speaker 2: She says she was really lucky her private health insurance

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Speaker 2: covered at all. The costs, of course, vary depending on

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Speaker 2: what service you require. Our patient services can range from

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Speaker 2: sixty to one hundred and eighty dollars an hour, and

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Speaker 2: inpatient services can go as high as one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars for a one month. Medicare provides some rebates for

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Speaker 2: mental health services that do include addiction counseling and therapy,

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Speaker 2: and there are also medications on the Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme

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Speaker 2: that can help depending on what drug you're addicted to.

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Speaker 2: Research those suggest that those who seek rehab treatment have

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Speaker 2: better outcomes than those who don't, and that the initial

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Speaker 2: cost may be worth it considering the potential health care expenses,

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Speaker 2: loss of income, legal issues, and relapse support. In the end,

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Speaker 2: while the cost may be prohibitive, the question is what

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Speaker 2: is your life worth to you and those who love

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Speaker 2: you much more than what rehab does. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 2: the time to feed your mind with us today. We'll

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Speaker 2: put the contact details for Odyssey House in the show

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Speaker 2: notes so you can reach out if you need help

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Speaker 2: in New South Wales. If you need help to find

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Speaker 2: a service in your state, please reach out to your

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Speaker 2: GP to start. The quickie is produced by me Claire

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Speaker 2: Murphy our executive producer Taylor Strato, with audio production by

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Speaker 2: Lou Hill