WEBVTT - UPDATE: The New Search For The Australia's Missing Family Cult

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<v Speaker 1>A warning before we start. This episode does contain mentions

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<v Speaker 1>of suicide. I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>A few weeks ago we brought you the case of

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<v Speaker 1>the missing nan Up four. We're dropping back into your

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<v Speaker 1>ears with an important and shocking update on the case. First,

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<v Speaker 1>some context. As you heard in our episode, the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>family cult that vanished overnight, Chantal McDougall, Simon Cadwell, their

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<v Speaker 1>daughter Leela, and friend and housemate Tony vanished from Nanup,

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<v Speaker 1>a small wa town, in two thousand and seven. Simon

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<v Speaker 1>was known as somewhat of a cult leader who believed

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<v Speaker 1>in a doomsday and moving to a higher plane once

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<v Speaker 1>you die. He had followers online, but those under his

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<v Speaker 1>roof were most under his control. When the four disappeared,

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<v Speaker 1>they left a note on their front door saying they'd

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<v Speaker 1>moved to Brazil. However, no trace of that happening was found.

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<v Speaker 1>Their passports weren't used to leave the country. In twenty

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<v Speaker 1>eight an inquest heard about a family suicide pact Simon

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<v Speaker 1>had been discussing online, suggesting another dark answer as to

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<v Speaker 1>potentially what could have happened to the group. Medical records

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<v Speaker 1>from before they disappeared. Showed that Shantell, Tony and Simon

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<v Speaker 1>obtained strong sedatives and anti anxiety medications. Simon was also

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<v Speaker 1>prescribed an antipsychotic and opioids, which can be fatal when

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<v Speaker 1>combined with sedatives. The inquest also revealed that Simon was

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<v Speaker 1>living under a false identity. He grew up in the

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<v Speaker 1>UK and his real name was Gary Felton. Ultimately, the

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<v Speaker 1>coroner ruled that he couldn't find beyond reasonable doubt that

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<v Speaker 1>any of the nun up four were dead or alive.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty six, ABC journalist Dominique Bayons has been

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<v Speaker 1>reinvestigating this case, and last time we had her on,

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<v Speaker 1>she hinted that she was sitting on some pretty huge

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<v Speaker 1>news in this case. She's ready to tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>it with an update on the Missing one up four.

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<v Speaker 1>Dom thanks for joining us back on true crime conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to pick up our chat with two very

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<v Speaker 1>dogged police officers, retired detectives. Tell me about Barry and

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<v Speaker 1>Peter and how they intersect with this story.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they've really been part of it since the very beginning,

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<v Speaker 2>So to introduce them. Barry McIntosh, he is a retired

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<v Speaker 2>Victorian detective. He had over thirty five years experience in

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<v Speaker 2>the Victorian Police Force. He's also the uncle of Chantelle McDougall,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the I guess we call them the nan

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<v Speaker 2>Up four, one of the people who disappeared from nan

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<v Speaker 2>Up in two thousand and seven. And Peter Greeves is

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<v Speaker 2>his friend and also a close family friend of the

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<v Speaker 2>McDougall family. He's also a retired detective. So between them

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<v Speaker 2>they have this absolute wealth of knowledge of policing and

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<v Speaker 2>they both worked in all different areas homicide, drugs, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just an absolute wealth of policing experience. But very early

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<v Speaker 2>on they were connected to the case, of course, because

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<v Speaker 2>Barie is Chantelle's uncle, and very early on, when Chantell's

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<v Speaker 2>parents were really concerned, they hadn't heard from her. She'd

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<v Speaker 2>told them they were moving to Brazil, but they hadn't,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, she hadn't gotten in touch to let them

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<v Speaker 2>know that they'd arrived safely. I believe that it was

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<v Speaker 2>Barrie that recommended Chantelle's parents to go to Peter Greaves

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<v Speaker 2>and report Chantal missing and get his help with that.

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<v Speaker 2>So very early on in the weeks and months after

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<v Speaker 2>the disappearance, Peter Greaves was helping Chantelle's parents and also

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<v Speaker 2>doing his own I guess early investigation. He was able

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<v Speaker 2>to look into Chantelle's bank account and very quickly learned

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<v Speaker 2>that Chantelle hadn't touched her bank account since the time

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<v Speaker 2>that they said they were leaving for Brazil. He also

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<v Speaker 2>discovered that no one had traveled on her passport or

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<v Speaker 2>Leela's passport, and yeah, so I guess those two elements

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<v Speaker 2>very quickly raised alarm bells for Peter, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he felt that this was actually quite serious. From there, he,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I guess, went up the chain of the

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<v Speaker 2>Victorian Police Force to report the missing to the Western

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<v Speaker 2>Australian Police Force and who then took on the investigation

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<v Speaker 2>from there, so I guess that's a bit of their

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<v Speaker 2>really early involvement. And the case was then passed on

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<v Speaker 2>to WA Police, who took that on conducted early missing

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<v Speaker 2>persons investigations and eventually a homicide investigation that led to

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<v Speaker 2>the coronial inquest. And at the time the inquest found

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<v Speaker 2>that the coroner couldn't find you know, I couldn't make

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<v Speaker 2>a decision on whether the four were alive or dead,

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, I guess that didn't provide much closure

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<v Speaker 2>for the McDougall family. So after that, Barry McIntosh and

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Greaves came back in and Barry macintosh requested a

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<v Speaker 2>copy of the police investigation. And actually, at the very

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<v Speaker 2>start of the COVID pandemic, he had the time and

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<v Speaker 2>space to really go over the investigation and look for

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<v Speaker 2>things that he felt had been missed, and he did

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<v Speaker 2>find a pretty I guess, a glaring thing that I

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<v Speaker 2>can I get into that he felt police had missed

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<v Speaker 2>or got wrong. And that brings us up to the

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<v Speaker 2>current day and where we're at.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, let's set the scene a bit before we get

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<v Speaker 1>to this big revelation. I want to talk about a

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<v Speaker 1>key bit of evidence that kind of places us in

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<v Speaker 1>the area that is searched. So obviously the four go

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<v Speaker 1>missing from nanop which is where they've been living, but

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<v Speaker 1>there is a bus ticket or bus ticket evidence that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of places them in Northcliff where kind of barries

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<v Speaker 1>evidence kind of unfolds. Tell us about that evidence and

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<v Speaker 1>how we can place then and up four potentially in

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<v Speaker 1>Northcliff area.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this area, this town or area of Bushland

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<v Speaker 2>near Northcliffe, which for people who aren't familiar with the

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<v Speaker 2>southwest of WA. Northcliffe is a town about an hour's

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<v Speaker 2>drive south of Nanap southeast of Nanap and much like now,

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<v Speaker 2>probably even more so, it's very isolated, very remote kind

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<v Speaker 2>of area. But there are a number of reasons why

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<v Speaker 2>Barry Macintosh believes that that Northcliff area is significant. The

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<v Speaker 2>first being that in the lead up to the disappearance,

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<v Speaker 2>Simon Cadwill, who we now know as Gary Felton, was

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<v Speaker 2>operating an online cult and in the months before their disappearance,

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<v Speaker 2>he was speaking to one of his online followers of

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<v Speaker 2>plans for a family suicide pact, and in his words,

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<v Speaker 2>he said, the plan was for the four of them

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<v Speaker 2>to wander into a remote area and take their own

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<v Speaker 2>lives and for the bodies to be to be buried.

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<v Speaker 2>It's I find even saying it out loud, I find

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<v Speaker 2>it quite difficult to talk about. But that is what

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<v Speaker 2>is recorded as what he said. I do need to

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<v Speaker 2>mention that that that follower challenged him on that and said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if you do that, that is tantamount to

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<v Speaker 2>murdering Leela, his daughter, And at that point he became

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<v Speaker 2>more closed off with that follower and said, actually he'd

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<v Speaker 2>changed his mind and they would just move somewhere where

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<v Speaker 2>people couldn't find him. But that is what he had

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<v Speaker 2>told them his plan was. So that is the first

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<v Speaker 2>reason why Barry believes this area is significant. The second

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<v Speaker 2>reason is because in the days around the disappearance, there

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<v Speaker 2>were two bus tickets booked connected to the four. These

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<v Speaker 2>bus tickets were both booked under the same fake name,

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<v Speaker 2>Jay Roberts, which also happens to be the name of

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<v Speaker 2>the road that they lived on at the time. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>one of these bus tickets to Northcliffe was not used,

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<v Speaker 2>but the one that was booked the next day, the

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<v Speaker 2>day after that first ticket, was used. So one of

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<v Speaker 2>the gro it is believed, we don't know exactly which one,

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<v Speaker 2>but someone connected to the group, one of the group

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<v Speaker 2>took a bus to Northcliff. So that is the second

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<v Speaker 2>reason why that Northcliffe area is significant. And then finally,

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<v Speaker 2>in the days sorry in the months after the disappearance,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a group of prisoners from a nearby prison

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<v Speaker 2>conducting track clearing in the area in an area of

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<v Speaker 2>bushland near Northcliffe, and while they were conducting that clearing,

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<v Speaker 2>they reported finding items of clothing and a smell of death.

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<v Speaker 3>In the area.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, they told the prison officer who was supervising them

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<v Speaker 2>of that, and he reported that to police at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>to local police who then went to the bushland and they,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, conducted their own s, but they said they

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<v Speaker 2>found a T shirt, but it looked like it had

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<v Speaker 2>been there for years rather than months, and they couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>smell a thing. Many years later, when the case was

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<v Speaker 2>reviewed again, place did another search of that Northcliff bushland.

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<v Speaker 2>That search was based off the memory of one of

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<v Speaker 2>those original officers that went to that area to check

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<v Speaker 2>it out when it was reported by those prisoners. So

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<v Speaker 2>there were two searches conducted of bushland in the North

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<v Speaker 2>Cliff area relating to this case, which brings us to

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<v Speaker 2>Barry Macintosh. And when he went over the files, when

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<v Speaker 2>he got his hands on the police file, he immediately

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<v Speaker 2>went to look at that the notes I guess around

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<v Speaker 2>that Northcliff search, and pretty quickly he established that he

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<v Speaker 2>believed that police had actually been in the wrong area

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<v Speaker 2>all along when they went to check out that area.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't search the area that the prisoners were looking at.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what Barry believed very early on in the piece.

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<v Speaker 2>He thought actually looking at this, I think they've searched.

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<v Speaker 3>The wrong area.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually tracked down the prison officer who was supervising

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<v Speaker 2>those prisoners on that day to work out the exact coordinates.

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<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't until I was able to sit down

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<v Speaker 2>with WA police recently that they confirmed that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually that the twenty fifteen search that they conducted of

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<v Speaker 2>the bushland that was in the wrong area. That search

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<v Speaker 2>was based off the memory of an officer who searched in.

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<v Speaker 3>Two thousand and seven.

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<v Speaker 2>But they can't confirm the exact location of that early

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<v Speaker 2>search because the coordinates of that search weren't recorded. But

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<v Speaker 2>if the memory of that office is correct, it means

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<v Speaker 2>that neither of those searchers were in the right place.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason that they couldn't smell anything was because they

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<v Speaker 2>were nowhere near the spot where those prisoners were conducting

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<v Speaker 2>that clearing that day.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you react to this news, because that's a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty baffling mistake.

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<v Speaker 2>It is really hard to go, you know, think of

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<v Speaker 2>the what ifs and think if that is right and

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<v Speaker 2>they were in the wrong place. You know, they were

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<v Speaker 2>about a kilometer or so out from where those prisoners

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<v Speaker 2>were carrying out track clearing, and you know, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>chance that it was nothing at all, or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it might not have been them there. We don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's disappointing. I guess it's disappointing for the family

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<v Speaker 2>to feel that there is, I guess, this lead that

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<v Speaker 2>could have been in investigated and now it turns out

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't, and you know, that's really disappointing.

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<v Speaker 1>And it would have only been within a few months

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<v Speaker 1>as well, like three months after the disappearance, So the

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<v Speaker 1>chances of finding intact bodies that soon there was a chance,

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<v Speaker 1>whereas you know, the later search or the searches that

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<v Speaker 1>have been done recently, it gets a lot harder. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us about the search that Barry and Peter

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<v Speaker 1>conducted themselves, because they went out there in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So when Barry had a look over the police

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<v Speaker 2>investigation file and you know, found that era, he immediately

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to go there himself and search that area. So

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<v Speaker 2>him and Peter Greaves, who we remember from early on

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<v Speaker 2>in the Peace who helped with that early investigation. From Victoria,

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<v Speaker 2>they traveled to where Australia to Northcliffe. Together they hired

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<v Speaker 2>drone technology they brought with them a team of volunteer

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<v Speaker 2>Kadava dogs, which are dogs which can smell out human remains,

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<v Speaker 2>and over about the course of a week, they conducted

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<v Speaker 2>their own search of that area of bushland, and they

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<v Speaker 2>really methodically, you know, the way they described it to me,

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<v Speaker 2>it was like they were conducting a professional investigation. They

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<v Speaker 2>were methodically going over areas of bushland and I guess

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<v Speaker 2>crossing them off as they went along. But on one

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<v Speaker 2>of the final days of the search, one of the

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<v Speaker 2>dogs picked up a scent and it was interesting. I

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<v Speaker 2>actually spoke with one of the members of that Kadava

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<v Speaker 2>dog team, and the way that he described it it

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<v Speaker 2>was quite vivid. He said that one of the dogs

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<v Speaker 2>picked up a scent at the bottom of this big

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<v Speaker 2>hill and it was kind of this puddle of water

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<v Speaker 2>and the sort of water coursing down the hill. And

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<v Speaker 2>he said, the way that they've trained their dogs to

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<v Speaker 2>indicate a scent is for the dogs to lay flat

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<v Speaker 2>when they detect something. So he said, one of the

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<v Speaker 2>dogs laid down and that indicated ascent in the area.

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<v Speaker 2>So then they brought another dog into that area from

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>a different direction, and he said that dog also laid

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 2>down on the ground. Indicating a cent, and then they

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 2>brought in another dog from a different direction because I

0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 2>guess the way he explained it, they don't want the

0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 2>dogs to I guess for them, it provides more accuracy

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 2>if they're bringing them in from different directions. So they

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.600
<v Speaker 2>brought in another dog from a different direction, and that

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>dog also laid down, and so on and so forth.

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Peter Greaves and Bowry Macintosh they dug around that area

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately were not able to find anything. And because

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>the terrain that they're working with, it's really hard to

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 2>describe unless you've seen it yourself, but it's such thick bushland,

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 2>and it was the middle of winter, and they're at

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of this hill, which the dogs weren't able

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 2>to get up because the bushland is so dense. I

0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 2>guess what they believe has happened is because there is

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 2>this water traveling down the hill. I guess there's this

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 2>erosion channel, as they described it to me, coming down

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.120
<v Speaker 2>this hill. They believe that the scent could have been

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:35.600
<v Speaker 2>carried over perhaps a couple of hundred meters, So they

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 2>weren't able to get up this hill and do a

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.680
<v Speaker 2>thorough search of that area. But now I guess in

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 2>light of what the police have confirmed that they were

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 2>in the wrong spot when they carried out that twenty

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>fifteen search, they're now trying to raise money so they

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>can come back to Western Australia and do it another

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 2>really thorough search of that bushland.

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Hearing that dog evidence really chilling that all of them

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>laid down, So that's got to mean something. Did Did

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.359
<v Speaker 1>Peter and Barry pass this on to WA Police? Have

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 1>they done any extra searches? Was it kind of enough

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 1>evidence for them?

0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So not long after that search, Barry Macintosh wrote

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.640
<v Speaker 2>to WA Police and requested another search of that bushland.

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.720
<v Speaker 3>Initially, police did reply to.

0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Him and say that another search was proposed by police,

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.200
<v Speaker 2>but they needed time and I guess to work out

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the exact area and that sort of thing. But unfortunately

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 2>a few months later they changed their mind and the

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 2>reason they gave to me was because Barry and Peter

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 2>had searched that area in twenty twenty four and that

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 2>was in fact the correct coordinates that the prison officer

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>gave that that area has been searched and so there's

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:04.639
<v Speaker 2>no point in police doing another search. So unfortunately they've

0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.520
<v Speaker 2>declined that request from Barry, but he's not giving up

0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.199
<v Speaker 2>and he's now trying to crowdfund money so that he

0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.520
<v Speaker 2>can bring that team of Kadava dogs and bring the

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 2>drone technology back to Northcliffe and conduct a new search

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 2>of the area.

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 1>When he says he wants to do a new search,

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>is he pretty certain of the exact area that he

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.440
<v Speaker 1>needs to go next? Like? How big of a kind

0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>of area are we looking at?

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.239
<v Speaker 2>My understanding from how it's been described to me is

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 2>that the search would take maximum two to three days.

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.000
<v Speaker 3>It's not a big area of bushland.

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 2>They've I guess, been able to with that scent from

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.320
<v Speaker 2>the Kadava dogs and going back to the prison officer

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 2>and having more conversations, they've really been able to kind

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 2>of pinpoint a pretty small area of bushland. So it

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't take much. Yeah, like I said, a couple of days,

0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.120
<v Speaker 2>three days at most, as I understand it. But because

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Barry and Peter are in Victoria, it's not you know,

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 2>it takes time and it takes money, and you've got

0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.440
<v Speaker 2>to organize a team of Kadava dogs, you've got to

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.840
<v Speaker 2>organize the drone technology, accommodation, all that sort of thing.

0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's more of a logistical challenge I guess of

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.719
<v Speaker 2>actually organizing it rather than the search itself, If that

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>makes sense.

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, I can see on the GoFundMe that Barry's trying

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.960
<v Speaker 1>to raise nine thousand dollars, so he's basically just waiting

0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 1>for the funds to then be able to do this

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.920
<v Speaker 1>final search to hopefully then get answers. Is that where

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:44.400
<v Speaker 1>we're at.

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So now where it stands today is Barry's put

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 2>together the the online fundraiser, the go fundme, and he's

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to raise I think, yeah, he's put nine thousand

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:03.119
<v Speaker 2>dollars there and that will allow him to pay for travel,

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to pay for travel for the Kadava dogs, that sort

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 2>of thing. So yeah, if he's able to raise those funds,

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.880
<v Speaker 2>he plans to get back to wa later this year

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully cross off that area. Because you know, it's

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 2>a lead, but I'm also aware that, you know, it

0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 2>might not be them. But as you know, I was

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.399
<v Speaker 2>having a chat with the Cadava dog trainer and he said,

0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I stand by my dogs one hundred percent.

0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm really confident in their abilities. But at the same time,

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>it might not be them. It could be somebody else,

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 2>but he said it's important that we go back to

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.200
<v Speaker 2>that area and do another search so that we can

0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.000
<v Speaker 2>find out and at least, at the very least cross

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 2>it off the list.

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 1>How does Chantelle's parents feel about this so many years later,

0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.919
<v Speaker 1>having such a breakthrough, such a kind of glimmer of hope.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:58.760
<v Speaker 1>How are they coping with it?

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I think this is something that they've dealt with before.

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 2>This has been their life for nearly twenty years, and

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 2>so I'm really aware when we're talking about this as

0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.439
<v Speaker 2>hope on the horizon or potentially answers on the horizon,

0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.640
<v Speaker 2>they have been through this before of having hope and

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 2>potentially having answers and then feeling let down and you know,

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 2>just having more questions. I guess, you know, I can

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.800
<v Speaker 2>liken it to when they found out that Simon Cadwell's

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.120
<v Speaker 2>true identity was Gary Felton at the time. I imagine

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 2>that would have been such a huge breakthrough and like,

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.560
<v Speaker 2>surely this is leading to answers, Surely something is going

0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 2>to come of this, and then nothing.

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.400
<v Speaker 3>So I'm really aware that.

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.120
<v Speaker 2>It could be the same again, but it also might

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.879
<v Speaker 2>not be And that's a really difficult place to be

0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>in and I know that they do want that area searched,

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.280
<v Speaker 2>but I'm sure with it out putting words in their mouth,

0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that it's something that you have to balance

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 2>that hope and just remaining realistic and knowing that this

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 2>has been something that you've dealt with for nearly two decades.

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 1>You've been working on this case for quite a while.

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.199
<v Speaker 1>Now where does this put you? Are you also waiting

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.280
<v Speaker 1>or what's next for you with this story?

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, as you can imagine, it's hard not to spend

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 2>so much time with these people and with their story

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and not feel incredibly invested in it, And it would

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.720
<v Speaker 2>be wonderful if doing this podcast has in some way

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:42.159
<v Speaker 2>pushed the case forward. I will certainly be staying with it.

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>And you know, it's even though the podcast has come out,

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.960
<v Speaker 2>As you know with podcasts, you can always make another episode.

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:55.399
<v Speaker 2>So where it stands is, you know, the podcast is out,

0:22:55.560 --> 0:23:00.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's I have not stopped looking into the circuitcumstances

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 2>around the disappearance, and I will be absolutely bringing listeners

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:10.840
<v Speaker 2>an update on any significant developments that we have from

0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.160
<v Speaker 2>now on, which would be wonderful to be able to do.

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's certainly not the end of the road

0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>for me, that's for sure.

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to Dom for sharing this update with us. You

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 1>can listen to the podcast Expanse the NNE up four

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:26.160
<v Speaker 1>at the link in our show notes. We've also linked

0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 1>to the GoFundMe page to raise money for a Final Search.

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.879
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to donate, This episode did discuss suicide.

0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.840
<v Speaker 1>If you or someone you know needs support, please contact

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Lifeline Australia at thirteen eleven fourteen