WEBVTT - Elon's Arm, Thirsty Women & Fourth Wing 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:19.422 that this podcast is recorded on Hey. 0:00:19.381 --> 0:00:22.022 Out louders, We know that some of you were waiting 0:00:22.342 --> 0:00:25.062 for the calendar to turn over to twenty twenty five 0:00:25.102 --> 0:00:27.382 before you bought your tickets. Not if you live in Perth, though, 0:00:27.542 --> 0:00:30.342 those guys were fast. But we've released some more tickets 0:00:30.342 --> 0:00:33.862 for our Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney shows. Twenty twenty five 0:00:34.062 --> 0:00:36.742 is here and we can't wait to see you. Remember, 0:00:36.942 --> 0:00:39.101 if you don't have anyone to come with, lots of 0:00:39.101 --> 0:00:41.742 people come solo. There is a link in the show notes. 0:00:41.822 --> 0:00:43.102 We would love to see you all. 0:00:45.062 --> 0:00:49.222 As you say, it's like a safe place to explore fantasy. 0:00:49.502 --> 0:00:50.982 It's like an emotional vibrator. 0:00:51.182 --> 0:00:55.022 Yeah, maybe we're like an accompaniment to an actual vibrator. 0:00:55.102 --> 0:00:55.182 Hi. 0:00:55.342 --> 0:01:00.382 Yeah, hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's 0:01:00.382 --> 0:01:03.342 what women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the twenty 0:01:03.422 --> 0:01:07.702 second of January, I am Holly Wainwright, I'm mea Friedman. 0:01:07.382 --> 0:01:08.462 And I'm Jesse Steve. 0:01:08.661 --> 0:01:10.502 She was very excited to be Hollyway night. 0:01:10.581 --> 0:01:13.702 Today, I was still in our different studio right, We're 0:01:13.742 --> 0:01:16.862 getting used to being filmed all the time, trying to 0:01:16.902 --> 0:01:18.622 be like high energy. 0:01:19.622 --> 0:01:22.062 Yeah. What's interesting is when we play grabs often we 0:01:22.102 --> 0:01:24.182 all just pick our noses or something because we're like, 0:01:24.302 --> 0:01:26.502 we're not on the mica. But the issue is that 0:01:26.622 --> 0:01:29.382 now we're being filmed and the feedback is get your 0:01:29.382 --> 0:01:30.102 finger out of your nose. 0:01:30.182 --> 0:01:34.502 Yeah, we're watching trying hard sitting up straight anyway on 0:01:34.542 --> 0:01:38.222 the show today, did he didn't he? Should we all 0:01:38.262 --> 0:01:41.301 be looking the other way? Why everyone's talking about Elon 0:01:41.422 --> 0:01:45.702 Musk's arms today? Also, some Australian women slept outside a 0:01:45.702 --> 0:01:49.142 bookshop for their smut dose this week. Others are trying 0:01:49.142 --> 0:01:51.902 to prompt their computers to talk dirty to them. Welcome 0:01:51.942 --> 0:01:55.782 to Safe Sex twenty twenty five style, and good news 0:01:55.822 --> 0:01:57.102 for you if you've just gone back to work and 0:01:57.142 --> 0:02:00.902 absolutely everything is pissing you right off. Apparently it's now 0:02:00.942 --> 0:02:02.142 good to cry at work. 0:02:02.622 --> 0:02:06.502 But first, Hi, Donald John Trump, who solemn and square, 0:02:06.782 --> 0:02:10.542 and I will faithfully execute the office of President of 0:02:10.582 --> 0:02:11.662 the United States. 0:02:11.742 --> 0:02:15.101 The Golden Age of America begins right now. We will 0:02:15.142 --> 0:02:17.582 be the envy of every nation, and we will not 0:02:17.742 --> 0:02:22.382 allow ourselves to be taken advantage of any longer. During 0:02:22.422 --> 0:02:26.661 every single day of the Trump administration, I will very 0:02:26.702 --> 0:02:32.822 simply put America first. I will declare a national emergency 0:02:33.022 --> 0:02:38.382 at our southern border. All illegal entry will immediately be halted, 0:02:38.582 --> 0:02:42.022 and we will begin the process of returning millions and 0:02:42.222 --> 0:02:46.102 millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which 0:02:46.181 --> 0:02:50.662 they came. As of today, it will henceforth be the 0:02:50.662 --> 0:02:54.022 official policy of the United States government that there are 0:02:54.181 --> 0:02:58.982 only two genders, male and female. And we will pursue 0:02:59.022 --> 0:03:03.782 our manifest destiny into the stars, launching American astronauts to 0:03:03.902 --> 0:03:07.342 plant the stars and stripes on the planet Mars. 0:03:08.742 --> 0:03:11.582 If you are not in the weeds of US politics 0:03:11.822 --> 0:03:15.422 the inauguration, how many billionaire tech bros were standing like 0:03:15.502 --> 0:03:20.422 some sort of gospel choir alongside Trump yesterday? Neither but inevitably, 0:03:20.702 --> 0:03:23.501 the biggest news in the world yesterday was that Donald 0:03:23.502 --> 0:03:26.622 Trump was sworn in as the forty seventh president of 0:03:26.662 --> 0:03:31.181 the United States. Well, that was meant to be the headline, 0:03:31.462 --> 0:03:34.622 but the biggest media story from my vantage point was 0:03:34.622 --> 0:03:37.622 a now viral image of what looked to be the 0:03:37.742 --> 0:03:41.622 richest man in the world, Elon Musk, doing a hitless salute. 0:03:42.222 --> 0:03:44.182 If you want to hear a breakdown of what happened 0:03:44.182 --> 0:03:46.822 from Trump's speech to Milania's hat Mayor and Holly sat 0:03:46.862 --> 0:03:51.142 down with Amelia Lesta for yesterday's Subscribe episode and analyze 0:03:51.142 --> 0:03:51.782 the event. 0:03:51.542 --> 0:03:52.702 In forensic detail. 0:03:53.382 --> 0:03:56.822 But back to allegations of a salute on a podium 0:03:56.862 --> 0:04:00.382 in Washington's Capital One Arena. Musked thanked the crowd, and 0:04:00.422 --> 0:04:03.942 then he extended his arm outward and diagonally towards the audience, 0:04:04.502 --> 0:04:07.982 palm down, arm straight. Then he turned one hundred and 0:04:08.062 --> 0:04:12.262 eighty degrees and did the same. The resounding question became, 0:04:12.582 --> 0:04:15.462 did Mask just do a Nazi salute or was it 0:04:15.502 --> 0:04:19.501 an awkward gesture of enthusiasm. One corner of the Internet 0:04:19.582 --> 0:04:24.462 said absolutely Nazi salute. Democratic congress people and historians of 0:04:24.462 --> 0:04:26.822 fascism were among people. 0:04:26.621 --> 0:04:28.621 Who argued that that is what they saw. 0:04:29.181 --> 0:04:32.622 The Anti Defamation League, however, one of the most prominent 0:04:32.702 --> 0:04:36.501 organizations dedicated to opposing anti Semitism. 0:04:36.501 --> 0:04:38.541 Said that is not what they saw. 0:04:39.381 --> 0:04:42.581 They released a statement that said, it seems that Elon 0:04:42.702 --> 0:04:45.462 Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, 0:04:45.782 --> 0:04:49.101 not a Nazi salute. But again, we appreciate that people 0:04:49.181 --> 0:04:52.582 are on edge they argued for grace and benefit of 0:04:52.621 --> 0:04:54.702 the doubt, which we will come back to. 0:04:55.501 --> 0:04:57.501 So what has Musk said? Well? 0:04:57.662 --> 0:05:01.342 An ex user tweeted, can we please retire the calling 0:05:01.381 --> 0:05:06.141 people a Nazi thing, which Musk responded to with yeah exactly, 0:05:06.181 --> 0:05:07.702 followed by a yawning emoji. 0:05:08.061 --> 0:05:10.021 He also re shared a mon you. 0:05:10.061 --> 0:05:13.861 Might have seen this of photos with Clinton Obama Paris 0:05:14.181 --> 0:05:16.621 or with their arms up in what looks like a salute, 0:05:16.621 --> 0:05:19.822 with the comment the legacy media is pure propaganda. 0:05:20.101 --> 0:05:23.021 You are the media now, Maya. 0:05:23.142 --> 0:05:26.181 You said on yesterday's episode that what you saw was 0:05:26.222 --> 0:05:29.541 a clear nod to Nazism. What do you think was 0:05:29.582 --> 0:05:31.541 his actual intention behind it? 0:05:31.981 --> 0:05:36.141 We'll never know. Only he knows his intention. Do I 0:05:36.222 --> 0:05:38.541 believe that he went, you know what I'm going to 0:05:38.582 --> 0:05:43.662 do now give a Nazi salute? Probably not, but in 0:05:43.702 --> 0:05:47.822 some ways, and I'm always for intention is so important. 0:05:48.782 --> 0:05:52.101 I think intention is a factor here. But I think 0:05:52.142 --> 0:05:56.301 there are some things that we learn that if everybody, 0:05:56.541 --> 0:06:00.382 or if a lot of people misunderstand you, then perhaps 0:06:00.462 --> 0:06:04.262 you haven't communicated very well. And I think if I 0:06:04.342 --> 0:06:08.581 pointed to the ceiling with my middle finger and you said, 0:06:08.582 --> 0:06:10.981 why are you giving me the bird? And I said, 0:06:11.022 --> 0:06:13.902 oh no, I'm just pointing to the ceiling. I would 0:06:13.981 --> 0:06:16.021 have to think about the fact that maybe I should 0:06:16.022 --> 0:06:18.021 have done that with a different gesture. What's interesting is 0:06:18.022 --> 0:06:19.941 that he hasn't come out and said, no, it wasn't 0:06:20.541 --> 0:06:23.782 and Nazism is terrible John to make this about me, 0:06:23.861 --> 0:06:27.622 But as a Jewish person, I was very thrown by 0:06:27.621 --> 0:06:30.621 watching that video. I saw the still and before we 0:06:30.662 --> 0:06:32.582 recorded the episode yesterday, I was like, I've got to 0:06:32.582 --> 0:06:34.302 see the video. I got a scene in context when 0:06:34.342 --> 0:06:36.501 everyone said and I know some Jewish people who said 0:06:36.501 --> 0:06:39.182 they didn't see that as well, and then when everyone says, oh, no, 0:06:39.222 --> 0:06:42.221 it wasn't that it does feel a bit like gas lighting. 0:06:42.381 --> 0:06:43.861 But I also don't want to fall into the trap 0:06:43.902 --> 0:06:46.782 of going, oh, a Nazi salute, because I can't do 0:06:46.861 --> 0:06:48.821 this for four years again. 0:06:49.222 --> 0:06:51.942 It was interesting, right because even with the Anti Defamation 0:06:52.061 --> 0:06:54.101 League saying we've got to give him some grace and 0:06:54.142 --> 0:06:55.222 some benefit of fast. 0:06:55.022 --> 0:06:57.021 And they've clashed with him a lot. He's tried to 0:06:57.061 --> 0:06:59.662 sue them because they've complained about anti Semitism on the 0:06:59.821 --> 0:07:03.061 X platform, and Elon Musk has said he's personally tried 0:07:03.101 --> 0:07:05.942 to sue the Anti Defamation League. So they're not fans 0:07:05.941 --> 0:07:06.541 of Musk. 0:07:06.421 --> 0:07:09.181 Because I'm always for benefit of the doubt, right, Yeah, 0:07:09.181 --> 0:07:12.262 but I find it difficult to give someone grace when 0:07:12.302 --> 0:07:15.702 we know about Musk's history. So there is a whole 0:07:16.102 --> 0:07:20.021 story unfolding with the far right in Germany at the moment, 0:07:20.062 --> 0:07:22.342 and Musk is a big player in that story. He's 0:07:22.422 --> 0:07:26.182 endorsing their far right political party where members have documented 0:07:26.222 --> 0:07:29.102 ties to neo Nazis. So I don't know why would 0:07:29.102 --> 0:07:30.702 be given him grace when that's just like the back. 0:07:30.862 --> 0:07:34.381 It's also fueling a lot of anti immigrant discourse in 0:07:34.422 --> 0:07:38.262 the UK and publicly backing far right figures in the UK, 0:07:38.662 --> 0:07:41.302 and they're very strong anti Islamic stance. 0:07:41.582 --> 0:07:44.742 Steve Bannon has called him racist. 0:07:44.782 --> 0:07:47.862 And Steve Bannon calls you racist. It's not true, Advisor. 0:07:47.941 --> 0:07:48.662 That's troubling. 0:07:48.742 --> 0:07:52.742 He's endorsed post about the great Replacement conspiracy theory. Again 0:07:52.782 --> 0:07:57.622 the anti Semitic tweets like this isn't a total one off, Holly, 0:07:57.662 --> 0:07:59.182 what do you think his intention was? 0:07:59.502 --> 0:08:01.622 I have no idea. Well, actually I do, I do 0:08:01.782 --> 0:08:07.341 know what his intention was exactly. This chaos, confusion, panic. 0:08:07.941 --> 0:08:10.302 I think one of the things that's really hard at 0:08:10.302 --> 0:08:13.262 the moment and is going to be the challenge for 0:08:13.302 --> 0:08:15.742 the next four years for anyone who I'm not going 0:08:15.782 --> 0:08:17.502 to say the left or whatever. I'm going to say 0:08:17.662 --> 0:08:21.502 people who aren't thrilled about the way the Trump oligarchy 0:08:21.582 --> 0:08:26.542 is playing out. Is we're constantly being told be cool, right. 0:08:27.182 --> 0:08:28.862 They love it when the Libs have got their hair 0:08:28.902 --> 0:08:31.701 on fire. They want to provoke you. They want to 0:08:31.742 --> 0:08:34.422 get everybody saying it's Nazis, it's the end of the world. 0:08:34.502 --> 0:08:38.662 They're dismantling democracy so that you sound like hysterical crazy people. 0:08:39.381 --> 0:08:42.222 So we're constantly being told be cool, right, don't give 0:08:42.222 --> 0:08:45.742 it your attention, deep breaths, look away. But that is 0:08:45.822 --> 0:08:49.422 incredibly hard to do when one of the most powerful, 0:08:49.462 --> 0:08:52.342 if not the most powerful person on the planet right now, 0:08:52.742 --> 0:08:57.342 is at the very least playing with the imagery of Nazism. Right, 0:08:58.102 --> 0:09:00.622 we can't necessarily be inside his brain and say what 0:09:00.702 --> 0:09:02.862 he was doing, but he was playing with it and 0:09:03.342 --> 0:09:06.182 it can be interpreted that way. So it starts this 0:09:06.262 --> 0:09:10.342 conversation and so be cool, I don't give your attention. 0:09:10.462 --> 0:09:12.782 Is very hard. I watched me A's reaction to that yesterday. 0:09:12.902 --> 0:09:15.022 It's really hard. I think about the other groups who 0:09:15.022 --> 0:09:18.862 are affected. Yesterday by Trump's speech where he's sitting next 0:09:18.902 --> 0:09:22.062 to Harris and Biden and Obama and whoever, and he's 0:09:22.102 --> 0:09:24.261 just saying, these people have been terrible at their jobs. 0:09:24.302 --> 0:09:26.462 I'm going to fix everything. And then I'm imagining how 0:09:26.462 --> 0:09:29.262 I would feel if I was waiting for my immigration 0:09:29.342 --> 0:09:31.702 appointment in America and it's just been canceled on an 0:09:31.702 --> 0:09:33.822 app on my phone. If I was a transperson who's 0:09:33.862 --> 0:09:37.102 just been told I don't exist, if I was any 0:09:37.142 --> 0:09:39.342 one of the suades of people who has a job 0:09:39.382 --> 0:09:41.582 that now I'm being told I probably just got because 0:09:41.662 --> 0:09:45.462 of diversity, and I'll lose that tomorrow. It's very hard 0:09:45.462 --> 0:09:48.462 for everyone to be cool. But at the same time, 0:09:48.942 --> 0:09:51.942 we've got to figure out what that is, because it's 0:09:52.022 --> 0:09:55.222 like we only have our attention and we've got to 0:09:55.222 --> 0:09:58.262 spend it wisely. And this what Mia often describes as 0:09:58.262 --> 0:10:01.182 and an attention economy. You've got to be careful about 0:10:01.182 --> 0:10:04.502 how you spend your chips. Right, Is this like a 0:10:04.622 --> 0:10:06.742 let them moment mea I don't know, what do you think? 0:10:06.902 --> 0:10:09.502 I agree with all of that, And I'm so tall 0:10:09.622 --> 0:10:12.422 and because part of me is I've got to find 0:10:12.462 --> 0:10:15.822 a way to let them apply because it just feels exhausting, 0:10:15.902 --> 0:10:17.582 you know, and we don't even live there. But it's 0:10:17.622 --> 0:10:21.462 more just like the absolute dominance of Trump and these 0:10:21.542 --> 0:10:25.382 men across our culture, not just across American politics. But 0:10:25.542 --> 0:10:28.381 then I'm like, well, what about the standard you walk past? 0:10:28.462 --> 0:10:31.502 Is the standard you accept? Are we just being calibrated? 0:10:31.582 --> 0:10:33.422 So he does a Nazi salute, he says, oh, it 0:10:33.422 --> 0:10:36.102 wasn't really a Nazi salute. And then the next person 0:10:36.102 --> 0:10:38.382 that does a Nazi salute, well, then it probably won't 0:10:38.422 --> 0:10:40.982 make news because remember, Elon got away with it, so 0:10:41.022 --> 0:10:42.062 it emboldens the next. 0:10:41.982 --> 0:10:45.302 Person, and is it trying to make liberals or leftist. 0:10:45.022 --> 0:10:47.222 Or whatever things get normalized, sort of like the. 0:10:47.182 --> 0:10:49.342 Boy who Cried Wolf with fascism? 0:10:49.502 --> 0:10:53.302 Right, because this has been said since Trump was first inaugurated, 0:10:53.382 --> 0:10:56.862 Like the comparisons have been made. There's a brilliant Ezra 0:10:56.942 --> 0:10:59.382 Cline episode that Holly got me onto this week about 0:10:59.462 --> 0:11:03.422 attention and I've heard this described as the attentional regime, 0:11:03.942 --> 0:11:06.982 and that made me think that what Elon was doing, I. 0:11:06.902 --> 0:11:07.742 Don't think that that. 0:11:08.822 --> 0:11:13.342 I obviously hope that that gesture wasn't as loaded as 0:11:13.342 --> 0:11:18.222 it might look, but I think it intentionally was used 0:11:18.422 --> 0:11:21.742 to trigger to court attention. 0:11:22.102 --> 0:11:24.062 And it was a trick. It was a trick. 0:11:24.142 --> 0:11:26.542 It was like a trap for the mainstream media to go, 0:11:26.582 --> 0:11:28.862 come on, I dare you, and guess what we all did. 0:11:29.462 --> 0:11:32.902 That image was shared, it was put on steroids, and 0:11:33.022 --> 0:11:35.622 he courted all the attention yet again. 0:11:35.662 --> 0:11:38.302 And what this episode about that he won't. 0:11:38.342 --> 0:11:40.462 But also the interesting thing about that, Jesse is I 0:11:40.502 --> 0:11:43.102 think you could see in the immediate aftermath some of 0:11:43.182 --> 0:11:46.302 what they would call the mainstream lame stream media trying 0:11:46.342 --> 0:11:49.102 not to fall into the trap. We noticed early on 0:11:49.142 --> 0:11:51.141 that a lot of the headlines and discourse around it 0:11:51.182 --> 0:11:54.142 were very cautious hand gesture. Yeah, and they weren't all 0:11:54.142 --> 0:11:56.502 setting the hand fire, because I think everybody's trying to 0:11:56.542 --> 0:11:59.822 be caught because we're getting wise about this attention economy 0:11:59.822 --> 0:12:01.462 and we need to be very mindful of it because 0:12:01.462 --> 0:12:04.742 we're about to head into an election cycle here. And 0:12:05.382 --> 0:12:07.622 what is very clear, if nothing else from Trump two 0:12:07.622 --> 0:12:09.422 point zero is none of the old rules apply in 0:12:09.622 --> 0:12:13.462 terms of political communication. Attention is everything, So those are 0:12:13.502 --> 0:12:15.862 all going to be applied here too. How do you 0:12:15.942 --> 0:12:18.742 not fall into a trap while not walking past the standard. 0:12:19.262 --> 0:12:23.862 I actually don't think that it was calculated. I actually 0:12:23.942 --> 0:12:29.422 think he was clearly very very elevated, like off his chops, 0:12:29.542 --> 0:12:33.782 either in the atmosphere of being on that stage, you know, 0:12:33.862 --> 0:12:38.102 the energy whatever. He was very elevated, you would say. 0:12:38.742 --> 0:12:41.582 And I think that what can happen to some people 0:12:41.982 --> 0:12:44.902 is that your inhibitions fall away and you can behave 0:12:45.222 --> 0:12:48.022 quite radically, and your true colors can sort of come 0:12:48.022 --> 0:12:50.141 out in those moments. And I'm inclined to think of 0:12:50.182 --> 0:12:53.542 John Galliano, the fashion designer for Dior, who lost his 0:12:53.662 --> 0:12:56.182 job and lost his reputation because he was drunk in 0:12:56.222 --> 0:12:59.302 a bar and he started making these antisemitic slurs at 0:12:59.342 --> 0:13:02.742 these people who he was having an argument with and 0:13:02.782 --> 0:13:04.582 that thing of but I was drunk, and then of 0:13:04.582 --> 0:13:06.582 course he went into rehab, and I think it was 0:13:06.622 --> 0:13:08.222 a bit like that. It's like, I think what it 0:13:08.302 --> 0:13:12.702 reveals in that moment is who he admires, either overtly 0:13:12.822 --> 0:13:15.902 or subconsciously. We know that Donald Trump is a big 0:13:15.902 --> 0:13:20.382 fan of autocratic leaders and sort of fascist adjacent leaders 0:13:20.382 --> 0:13:24.902 like Putin, like Bolsonaro in Brazil, Ergodon, who is the 0:13:24.982 --> 0:13:28.502 leader in Turkey, and I think mosque, as you said before, 0:13:28.582 --> 0:13:31.782 about his interference in right wing German politics and stuff. 0:13:32.422 --> 0:13:35.182 They all think that these guys are great because they 0:13:35.222 --> 0:13:37.942 are not accountable to anyone. They've got complete power, and 0:13:38.062 --> 0:13:42.102 Hitler falls into that, so he's clearly familiar with that iconography. 0:13:42.222 --> 0:13:46.022 It was an image of leadership that he clearly wanted 0:13:46.062 --> 0:13:49.822 to evoke. And he is a free speech absolutist, which 0:13:49.902 --> 0:13:52.542 we know that's been something he's talked about a lot, 0:13:52.942 --> 0:13:55.662 and free speech pundits. There are two things they love 0:13:55.702 --> 0:13:56.582 to do more than anything. 0:13:56.622 --> 0:13:57.902 The first is not always a. 0:13:57.902 --> 0:14:00.342 Free speech pundit, because if anyone criticizes him, he kicks 0:14:00.342 --> 0:14:01.302 them off his platform. 0:14:01.822 --> 0:14:04.502 That's true, but that's been his excuse for heralding in 0:14:04.822 --> 0:14:06.822 That's why X is now you can't even go on 0:14:06.862 --> 0:14:10.022 it because it's just so full of hate. But the 0:14:10.062 --> 0:14:12.902 first thing they love to do is evoke any imagery 0:14:12.902 --> 0:14:15.942 of Nazism because people say you can't. And the second 0:14:16.062 --> 0:14:17.942 is use the N word like they're the two things 0:14:17.942 --> 0:14:20.102 that you do, and it's like I don't even think it, 0:14:20.142 --> 0:14:22.622 I just I can. And even yesterday I went and 0:14:22.662 --> 0:14:25.062 had a look at what he'd been retweeting, and there 0:14:25.102 --> 0:14:27.382 was a tweet with the R word in it, and 0:14:27.862 --> 0:14:31.782 again that's about taking our attention but also going I 0:14:32.022 --> 0:14:35.102 can just try and stop me. I think that was 0:14:35.142 --> 0:14:37.422 probably behind what we saw yesterday. 0:14:37.862 --> 0:14:39.662 They're all high on their own supply, and they have 0:14:39.902 --> 0:14:42.862 every right to be because they are the rulers of 0:14:42.862 --> 0:14:44.782 the world at the moment. That's what was so chilling 0:14:44.822 --> 0:14:45.302 about it. 0:14:46.062 --> 0:14:49.422 In a moment, women are sleeping outside bookshops all over 0:14:49.422 --> 0:14:51.862 the world to get their hands on the latest installment 0:14:51.862 --> 0:14:59.982 of Fairy Smart. What does it say about us? Feedback 0:15:00.102 --> 0:15:02.782 is a gift from both the perspective of the giver 0:15:03.102 --> 0:15:04.222 as well as the recipient. 0:15:05.982 --> 0:15:08.822 I have a small bit of feedback today's feedback. Something 0:15:08.822 --> 0:15:11.102 that makes me turn into a pufferfish because it annoys 0:15:11.102 --> 0:15:14.582 me so much is when you're talking to someone and 0:15:14.622 --> 0:15:17.342 they say, I've just let me show you this funny 0:15:17.342 --> 0:15:19.062 meme or I just need to show you a photo, 0:15:19.462 --> 0:15:21.662 and you have to stand there while they scroll back 0:15:21.702 --> 0:15:25.382 through their emails all through their camera roll. I don't 0:15:25.382 --> 0:15:28.342 know what to do because it feels when I'm standing there, 0:15:29.182 --> 0:15:30.502 I want to just pick up my phone and just 0:15:30.502 --> 0:15:31.942 look at my phone, because you meant. 0:15:31.782 --> 0:15:33.502 To look over their shoulder at their phone. Because it 0:15:33.502 --> 0:15:35.982 feels private, so you just kind of look out into 0:15:36.022 --> 0:15:37.422 the distance with your hands behind it. 0:15:37.342 --> 0:15:39.342 And you can't keep talking because you know if you 0:15:39.422 --> 0:15:41.782 talk to them, they'll lose focus and it'll take longer. 0:15:42.222 --> 0:15:45.422 And so you're just standing and they're consumed in they're scrolling, 0:15:46.022 --> 0:15:47.382 and I don't know what to do. 0:15:47.542 --> 0:15:50.142 Have you ever found what they come up with and 0:15:50.182 --> 0:15:50.622 show you? 0:15:50.702 --> 0:15:53.342 They're really find it fine, but they also really find it. 0:15:53.462 --> 0:15:54.182 They don't worry. 0:15:54.222 --> 0:15:57.942 Invariably after about sixty seconds, they'll say, oh, I can't 0:15:57.942 --> 0:15:58.582 find it. 0:15:58.662 --> 0:16:00.262 Or they get up a video and they show you 0:16:00.262 --> 0:16:01.822 the video, which is always like two and a half 0:16:01.822 --> 0:16:04.342 minutes long, and then you're arranging your face in a 0:16:04.422 --> 0:16:08.542 way that says moderately ha ha. 0:16:09.782 --> 0:16:11.622 It's never satisfying. 0:16:11.022 --> 0:16:13.662 Looking at other people's phones is weird, isn't it. My 0:16:13.822 --> 0:16:15.742 daughter always wants to show me things on her phone, 0:16:15.742 --> 0:16:18.422 but she will not let me hold the phone, which 0:16:18.502 --> 0:16:20.782 is obvious because she thinks if my finger slips, I'll 0:16:20.782 --> 0:16:22.942 see something that I'll tell her all for yeah, so 0:16:23.022 --> 0:16:25.582 she'll like put the phone near me. But obviously I've 0:16:25.622 --> 0:16:27.862 got eyes that take a while to work out where 0:16:27.862 --> 0:16:30.622 I'm focusing, and it's just not good. Other people's phones. 0:16:31.142 --> 0:16:31.702 Just send it. 0:16:32.542 --> 0:16:34.702 I just finished on ex Storm. M hmm. 0:16:35.022 --> 0:16:37.982 I just finished on ex Storm, and words cannot begin 0:16:38.062 --> 0:16:41.422 to describe what I am feeling and thinking right now. 0:16:41.902 --> 0:16:42.982 Easy five stars. 0:16:43.182 --> 0:16:45.502 Shout out to all the out louders who are hiding 0:16:45.542 --> 0:16:50.102 under their doners today reading on Xstorm, the latest book 0:16:50.262 --> 0:16:53.622 from the Fourth Wing phenomenon. Rebecca Yaros, if you have 0:16:53.782 --> 0:16:56.622 no idea what I'm talking about in any of those words, 0:16:56.662 --> 0:16:59.182 just then it's safe to say that you were not 0:16:59.462 --> 0:17:02.262 camped outside a bookshop at midnight on Monday to be 0:17:02.342 --> 0:17:04.302 one of the first to buy the latest in the 0:17:04.382 --> 0:17:06.942 so called and some people get upset about it being 0:17:06.942 --> 0:17:09.341 called this so apologies if you're listening and you're one 0:17:09.382 --> 0:17:13.542 of them, the fairy smart genre. So the Fourth Wing 0:17:13.661 --> 0:17:16.381 series is not the same as the Court and Thorn 0:17:16.422 --> 0:17:19.701 and Roses series, but it's the same vibe, right, So, 0:17:19.782 --> 0:17:24.421 Rebecca Yaros writes Fourth Wing books, they're what they call romanticy, 0:17:24.621 --> 0:17:25.741 which is very smart. 0:17:25.942 --> 0:17:28.182 Last time I checked, though, she was one and two 0:17:28.222 --> 0:17:30.101 on the New York Times person She's like. 0:17:30.141 --> 0:17:33.862 Huge, right, So here's the thing she writes those books. 0:17:34.381 --> 0:17:37.502 Sarah J. Mass writes The Court and Thought of Roses. 0:17:37.661 --> 0:17:39.982 They are both incredibly successful. 0:17:40.141 --> 0:17:42.422 So is it like Fifty Shades but with fairy So. 0:17:42.581 --> 0:17:44.661 Without wanting to get too into it, right, this is 0:17:44.661 --> 0:17:47.381 the third in her installment that's all set in like 0:17:47.462 --> 0:17:50.341 an academy where you learn how to be a dragon writer, 0:17:50.661 --> 0:17:54.262 right in a strict military way. So, and then sex 0:17:54.302 --> 0:17:56.182 with the dragons. We don't have sex with the dragons, 0:17:56.182 --> 0:18:00.262 but there is lots of sex and romance and sexual tension. 0:18:00.422 --> 0:18:02.061 Who has sex. They all have. 0:18:02.101 --> 0:18:04.262 Sex with each other, but not the dragons. 0:18:04.302 --> 0:18:06.061 I don't think that. I don't know if people have 0:18:06.101 --> 0:18:08.141 sex with the dragons. I haven't read all this, but 0:18:08.182 --> 0:18:11.221 there's a lot of sex, right, sexual tension. So I 0:18:11.222 --> 0:18:13.341 think the young woman who's the focus of this, she's 0:18:13.381 --> 0:18:16.861 called Violet, has like a very intense love affair with 0:18:16.942 --> 0:18:21.341 somebody there. So it's like Twilight meets Harry Potter. Stir 0:18:21.422 --> 0:18:24.461 in some fifty Shades. Okay, spice that shit up, and 0:18:24.502 --> 0:18:26.621 I think we're in the ballpark. And again, I know 0:18:26.702 --> 0:18:29.061 this is a superfan genre and there are people shouting 0:18:29.101 --> 0:18:31.221 at the phone right now. We're just doing our best. 0:18:31.462 --> 0:18:34.861 So Sarah J. Mass, who writes that Courton Thorn Roses 0:18:34.901 --> 0:18:37.621 has sold more than twenty million copies of those books. 0:18:37.661 --> 0:18:40.261 I know someone who had a baby after reading one 0:18:40.302 --> 0:18:42.341 of those books. Yes, she got so horny. 0:18:42.581 --> 0:18:45.502 Rebecca Yarras has sold at least three million and climbing 0:18:45.621 --> 0:18:49.262 right now. So what's interesting about this is that these 0:18:49.262 --> 0:18:51.862 are some of the most successful authors in the world. 0:18:52.502 --> 0:18:54.661 They're not going to win literary awards, right, You're not 0:18:54.702 --> 0:18:56.901 going to see them doing that. They're not going to 0:18:56.942 --> 0:18:59.381 be at book festivals, They're not going to be celebrated 0:18:59.422 --> 0:19:02.142 at that because the industry doesn't think they're very good. 0:19:02.182 --> 0:19:04.542 But also, things that women like never win award exactly. 0:19:04.942 --> 0:19:07.542 This is telling. Yarras dedicates this book to the ones 0:19:07.542 --> 0:19:09.701 who don't run with the popular crowd, the ones who 0:19:09.742 --> 0:19:12.262 get caught reading under their desks, the ones who feel 0:19:12.302 --> 0:19:15.542 like they never get invited, included, or represented. So that 0:19:15.621 --> 0:19:18.422 tells you a lot about the marketing genius at play here. 0:19:18.821 --> 0:19:21.902 And whatever the world might think of these books, women. 0:19:22.182 --> 0:19:23.702 Love, love, love to read them. Right. 0:19:24.462 --> 0:19:27.542 The sex of it all is hard to ignore because 0:19:27.542 --> 0:19:31.421 the books are quite dirty. They are classified as fantasy 0:19:31.581 --> 0:19:35.662 romance with explicit content, and they are in the tradition 0:19:35.742 --> 0:19:39.221 of fifty shades. I suppose like a safe place to 0:19:39.341 --> 0:19:43.782 play with fantasy. And I think that that probably speaks 0:19:43.782 --> 0:19:46.261 to something that we're seeing around a lot at the moment. 0:19:46.821 --> 0:19:47.101 Jesse. 0:19:47.222 --> 0:19:50.222 There's another trend we're seeing, which is women having sex 0:19:50.262 --> 0:19:51.062 with computers. 0:19:51.222 --> 0:19:54.381 There is a woman named Aaron who was the subject 0:19:54.462 --> 0:19:57.542 of a New York Times piece and Mummeya wrote about 0:19:57.581 --> 0:20:00.061 it recently too, and she is in a sexual relationship 0:20:00.061 --> 0:20:04.022