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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Hi, I'm Claire Murphy.

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Speaker 1: This is Mumma MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. Nadock

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Speaker 1: Week officially kicked off yesterday, with the country taking this

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Speaker 1: time to celebrate and recognize the history, culture and achievements

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Speaker 1: of Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander people. The theme this year

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Speaker 1: is keep the fire burning, black, loud and proud. And

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Speaker 1: while we know that this meaning links back to the

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Speaker 1: continuing fight for recognition in the wake of the Voice

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Speaker 1: to Parliament referendum, in keeping with the essence of Nadock

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Speaker 1: Week and embracing culture, we're taking that theme literally as

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Speaker 1: we break down the cleansing fire of a smoking ceremony

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Speaker 1: before Uncle Brendan Karen takes us through the spirituality and

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Speaker 1: meaning of one of the oldest traditional ceremonies in the world.

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Speaker 1: Let's get the latest from the Cookie Newsroom. Monday, July eight,

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Speaker 1: investigators will return to a fire gutted home in City

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Speaker 1: today in a bit to make sense of the scene

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Speaker 1: were a man allegedly blocked attempts by first responders to

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Speaker 1: rescue the children trapped inside. Police have confirmed that the

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Speaker 1: man is the father of three of the children who

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Speaker 1: died in the blaze. Four other children and a woman

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Speaker 1: are being treated in hospital and are expected to survive.

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Speaker 1: Police say it does appear that the twenty eight year

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Speaker 1: old man is responsible for multiple deaths. Detectives treating the

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Speaker 1: incident as a domestic related homicide. Emergency services claim that

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Speaker 1: they were allegedly met with resistance from the man as

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Speaker 1: they attempted to save those inside the burning home. The

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Speaker 1: man has been arrested and is in a critical condition

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Speaker 1: in hospital. It now looks like France is on course

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Speaker 1: for a hung parliament, with a leftist alliance unexpectedly taking

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Speaker 1: the top spot in the elections ahead of Marine La

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Speaker 1: Penn's far right party. The opening polls in the election

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Speaker 1: saw La Penn's National Rally leading the race, but her

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Speaker 1: rivals managed to align to block the fire rights ascendancy

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Speaker 1: to power, pulling together more than two hundred candidates out

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Speaker 1: of a three way race in the second of voting.

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Speaker 1: President Emmanuel Macron now faces leading a country alongside a

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Speaker 1: prime minister opposed to most of his domestic policies at

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Speaker 1: a time where the country is also hosting an Olympic Games.

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Speaker 1: Protesters trying to pressure the Israeli government to reach a

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Speaker 1: deal with Hamas to return hostages taken during the October

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Speaker 1: seven terror attack have been held across Israel, with people

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Speaker 1: blocking roads and picketing the homes of government ministers. Hamas

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Speaker 1: says they are waiting for a response from Israel on

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Speaker 1: its ceasefire proposal, five days after they accepted a key

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Speaker 1: part of a US plan aimed at ending the nine

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Speaker 1: month war in Gaza. The deal aims to halt fighting

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Speaker 1: in the enclave and free the estimated one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty hostages still held by Hamas. Meanwhile, fighting continues to

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Speaker 1: rage across Gaza, while northern Israel also came under attack

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Speaker 1: with rockets fired from the Iranian backed Hezbolah. In Lebanon,

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Speaker 1: a wildfire is burning dangerously close to Michael Jackson's famous

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Speaker 1: Neverland ranch in Santa Barbara. Jackson, who passed away in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, purchased the land in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: building the massive mansion and theme park around it, and

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Speaker 1: then inviting kids to come and spend time with him

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Speaker 1: at the property, which had a ferris wheel, cinema and

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Speaker 1: a zoo. The property was facing foreclosure in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, with Jackson owing twenty five million dollars. He

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Speaker 1: ended up refinancing the property to save it. However, fire

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Speaker 1: may be the thing that destroys the iconic and notorious property.

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Speaker 1: The lake fire has forced those in its path to

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Speaker 1: evacuate as it burns through more than twelve thousand acres

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Speaker 1: of thick brush. Firefighters dealing with intense heat currently making

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Speaker 1: conditions difficult across southern California. That's what's happening around the

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Speaker 1: world today. Next, what is the purpose of a smoking ceremony?

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Speaker 1: Do the type of leaves make a difference to the

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Speaker 1: meaning and why did one of these ceremonies maybe derail

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Speaker 1: the season of an entire NRL team. Where there is smoke,

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Speaker 1: there is fire. Where there is fire, there is cleansing.

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Speaker 1: The smoking ceremony is an ancient custom practiced by Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: tribes for thousands of years.

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Speaker 2: A selection of leaves are placed.

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Speaker 1: Into a small wooden vessel which has been soaked in

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Speaker 1: water to allow a fire to be lit inside and not.

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Speaker 2: Be destroyed itself.

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Speaker 1: The leaves to be burned are carefully selected, treated with

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Speaker 1: respect as they're plucked from the trees. Aromatic smoke from

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Speaker 1: the burning leaves fills the space. Depending on the type

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Speaker 1: of plant they come from, you could be surrounded by

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Speaker 1: eucalyptus or lemon. Now it's time to begin the cleansing

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Speaker 1: and healing. If you aren't a First Nation's Australian, you

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Speaker 1: may have only glimpsed this ancient ceremony on your TV screen,

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Speaker 1: maybe before a big game or in a package and

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Speaker 1: the lead up to Indigenous rounds.

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Speaker 3: So Woman Jaca, welcome, enjoy the day, Thank you, welcome, welcome,

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Speaker 3: have a great night.

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Speaker 1: So perhaps our knowledge of why this ceremony persists today

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Speaker 1: and its many laid meanings and significance is limited. To

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Speaker 1: help us better understand it is, Uncle Brendan Karen, a

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Speaker 1: cultural representative of the Aboriginal Land Council. Brendan, your mum

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Speaker 1: was a member of the Stolen Generation and so you

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Speaker 1: were brought up in your younger years disconnected from culture.

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Speaker 1: What does a smoking ceremony mean for you now, especially

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Speaker 1: as someone who conducts so many of them yourself.

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Speaker 4: On many levels of a smoking ceremony and what it

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Speaker 4: means for me now. I think it needs to be

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Speaker 4: understood that not anyone should be or can do a

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Speaker 4: smoking ceremony, both culturally and traditionally. And for me, it's

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Speaker 4: always an honor to perform this ceremony because it's a

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Speaker 4: same sacred ceremony, one that we haven't invented to cater

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Speaker 4: for white people, even though it pays a lot more

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Speaker 4: now than it did traditionally. And two, it's a ceremony

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Speaker 4: we've been doing since the beginning of time because that's

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Speaker 4: how long we've been here for and I always say

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Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty thousand years plus BC, and the

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Speaker 4: BC stands for before cook. So it's always an honor

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Speaker 4: for me to perform that ceremony on country and reconnecting

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Speaker 4: bringing back that tradition back on the country.

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Speaker 1: Brennan, you weren't able to connect your culture until you're

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Speaker 1: in your twenties, so you would have memories of your

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Speaker 1: first smoking ceremony. Do you remember the feeling that came

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Speaker 1: to you when you were part of that experience for

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Speaker 1: the first time.

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Speaker 4: I do, and it was a very powerful ceremony for me.

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Speaker 4: You know, you have to understand as being a survivor

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Speaker 4: of I prefer to call it the Kidnapp generation. What

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Speaker 4: we do in order to find where we belong. We

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Speaker 4: do more research into our own people and our own

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Speaker 4: clans than most people because we're trying to find where

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Speaker 4: we fit, where we come from, and so having that

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Speaker 4: really broad range of cultural knowledge based on that journey,

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Speaker 4: it was very powerful ceremony.

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Speaker 1: All right, Brendan, I would love for you to take

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Speaker 1: us through, step by step what's involved in a smoking

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Speaker 1: ceremony and what do all these steps mean culturally and

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Speaker 1: spiritually to those who are conducting the ceremony and those

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Speaker 1: who are taking part in it.

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Speaker 4: Firstly, I think it's important to understand the traditional value

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Speaker 4: of the ceremony, and traditionally we do the smoking ceremony

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Speaker 4: from the beginning of life right through to the end

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Speaker 4: of life. So from day one, as soon as our

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Speaker 4: babies are born, our women will do a smoking ceremony.

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Speaker 4: One it's part of the medicine and healing for the newborn.

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Speaker 4: And two we believe it gives the newborn baby the

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Speaker 4: smell of cun tree or the lands on their body,

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Speaker 4: and every living thing on those lands know that those

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Speaker 4: babies are connected to the lands. We do our smoking

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Speaker 4: ceremonies during life. The different plants we burn have different

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Speaker 4: healing properties, and we do our smoking ceremonies at the

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Speaker 4: end of life, what we call our sorry business. People

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Speaker 4: can never ask what leaves I'm burning because we need

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Speaker 4: to keep something sacred and secret. We've really let the

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Speaker 4: cat out of the bag about how good kangaroo emu

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Speaker 4: and lemon myrtle tastes. And look how expensive that is

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Speaker 4: to buy in the shops now. Sometimes people will ask

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Speaker 4: me what leaves I'm burning, and I will say to them,

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Speaker 4: the leaves are called nunia and scott that the nunya business,

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Speaker 4: AND's got nothing to do with you. Before I pick

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Speaker 4: the leaf from a certain tree, there's a song I

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Speaker 4: sing to the tree in my language, and that song,

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Speaker 4: that prayer, and that magic goes into the tree, into

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Speaker 4: the leaves. Only then do I burn the leaves. When

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Speaker 4: I burn the leaves, that releases that song, that prayer,

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Speaker 4: and that magic. And this is what our smoking ceremony is.

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Speaker 4: It's always cleansing and healing. We believe it gets rid

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Speaker 4: of all the bad energies, but it also gives people

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Speaker 4: the smell of the lands or country that they're on

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Speaker 4: so that they have a safe journey whilst on country,

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Speaker 4: and every living thing knows on country. Those people are

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Speaker 4: connected to country. And this is our smoking ceremony. This

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Speaker 4: is the smoking ceremonies that I conduct. I don't know

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Speaker 4: if people have seen me out there conducting these smoking ceremonies,

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Speaker 4: but thanks to work health and safety, I always use

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Speaker 4: my traditional Bunnings bucket and I always traditionally light my

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Speaker 4: fires with a bit glider.

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Speaker 1: I love that it's such a meshing of ancient and

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Speaker 1: modern traditions all in one.

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Speaker 4: It is. And you know what I still hunt. I

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Speaker 4: still hunt my bush meat, kangaroo, emu, porcupy and go

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Speaker 4: and I still hunt, except I use a rifle and

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Speaker 4: a toyota and sometimes I buy my bushtucker online. And

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Speaker 4: I think it's that part of that education that I

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Speaker 4: always share because I understand majority of Australians have got

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Speaker 4: no idea about the world's oldest living continual culture and

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Speaker 4: we're so multicultural now as well, so where even our

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Speaker 4: New Australians were never taught anything about our culture.

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Speaker 1: Brendan, can you talk a little bit about the fire,

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Speaker 1: because obviously, as Australians we are brought up to see

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Speaker 1: fire in a bush fire sense, in a fearful sense,

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Speaker 1: and in something we must protect from. But in a

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Speaker 1: smoking ceremony, it feels like it has more of a

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Speaker 1: cleansing nature.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: It does because we've used fire for as long as

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Speaker 4: we've been here. We use fire not only for hunting.

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Speaker 4: We use fire to bring the rain as well well.

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Speaker 4: The fire is very sacred for us. If you've ever noticed,

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Speaker 4: when we have big bushfires in the mountains, what follows

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Speaker 4: the fires is always the rain, always the rain, And

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Speaker 4: now that we're traditionally not being able to do those,

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Speaker 4: the rain connection is out of whack. Fire is living.

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Speaker 4: If we have a good look at fire and watch

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Speaker 4: and understand fire. Fire needs to eat, so as it

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Speaker 4: starts to eat, the fire itself will create a fire front.

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Speaker 4: The heat that's radiated off that fire. What it's actually

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Speaker 4: doing is it's preparing the food, drying up everything for

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Speaker 4: the flame to eat it. When the fire gets big enough,

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Speaker 4: it starts to send out scouts, and these scouts are

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Speaker 4: known as spotfires, and they're looking for more areas where

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Speaker 4: they can eat, and then the flame will follow.

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Speaker 1: Can anyone in mob conductor smoking ceremony.

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Speaker 4: No, so it depends on where you come from. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: with different laws relating to different clans. Definitely there needs

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Speaker 4: to be that age and wisdom that comes along with

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Speaker 4: the fire, because we believe if you don't know what

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Speaker 4: you're doing with this ceremony or I always say, you'll

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Speaker 4: end up getting sick, and I'm not talking physical sick.

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Speaker 4: It could be spiritually sick, mentally sick, because the ceremony itself,

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Speaker 4: your energy is what's creating and going into that ceremony.

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Speaker 1: When we see smoking ceremonies, we often see them on

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Speaker 1: a large scale events like before a big AFL game

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Speaker 1: or during indigenous rounds at sport. But often now we

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Speaker 1: might see a more intimate smoking ceremony, like a group

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Speaker 1: of people welcomed onto country, for example, who might then

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Speaker 1: grab hold of that smoke and draw it to them

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Speaker 1: and cover themselves with it. What does that mean to

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Speaker 1: take the smoke from the smoking ceremony and place it

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Speaker 1: upon you?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing there?

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Speaker 4: So the smoke should be treated as water, and you're

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Speaker 4: actually washing the smoke over you, And by washing the

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Speaker 4: smoke over you, you're washing that energy, that negative and bad

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Speaker 4: energy off your body. And I always put my feet

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Speaker 4: in the smoke as well, because personally, I believe energy

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Speaker 4: is attached and wherever I walk, someone else's walk and

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Speaker 4: attach those energies through my feet. So I quite often

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Speaker 4: wash my feet in the smoke as well, just on

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Speaker 4: the big events. Traditionally, the more smoke the better, and

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Speaker 4: sometimes I can do anywhere from five to twenty smoking

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Speaker 4: ceremonies a week. What you'd initially want to do is

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Speaker 4: to walk around with that smoke and to cover the

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Speaker 4: whole audience and the whole space with it. Unfortunately, there's

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Speaker 4: not always the opportunity to do that. Now when I'm

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Speaker 4: in those circumstances, I'm always very honored just to be

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Speaker 4: able to have that ceremony on the ground, because I

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Speaker 4: think back when was the last time that ceremony was

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Speaker 4: ever held on that land.

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Speaker 1: Is it cleansing for the land itself to also have

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Speaker 1: that smoking ceremony, Brendan, It is.

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Speaker 4: Cleansing for the land as well. It brings country, the land,

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Speaker 4: the animals back to life. If you think about our history,

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Speaker 4: we've sat here, and we've been here for so long

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Speaker 4: that all the animals and every living thing had only

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Speaker 4: known and heard of one language that was our dialect.

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Speaker 4: It's in their DNA. So to bring back dialect and ceremonies.

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Speaker 4: The animals and all living things on land subconsciously know

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Speaker 4: what it is for.

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Speaker 1: People who aren't First Nations Aboriginal torrestrate islander. How are

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Speaker 1: we supposed to include ourselves when we are at a

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Speaker 1: smoking ceremony, because often we don't understand what is a

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Speaker 1: respect for full interaction and what is not. Should we

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Speaker 1: be drawing the smoke towards us, should we be taking

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Speaker 1: it as it's an honor for us to be included

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Speaker 1: in that process, and so therefore just absorb ourselves in

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Speaker 1: it at the time. What's the protocol for those of

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Speaker 1: us who are not aboriginalatoris ratee islander.

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Speaker 4: I think that answer would possibly depend on the individual

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Speaker 4: conducting the smoking ceremony. And with my smoking ceremonies, I

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Speaker 4: always give the explanation and that educational piece around the ceremony,

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Speaker 4: and then I invite people to come up to the smoke.

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Speaker 4: And one thing I've noticed over the six seven years

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Speaker 4: of doing these is that when I do the ceremony

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Speaker 4: for non Indigenous people, they bloody line up. They line

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Speaker 4: up as if they're at the coffee stand. If I

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Speaker 4: do it for my own people, we don't line up.

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Speaker 4: We just all get up and come as a group

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Speaker 4: to the smoke. And I find that interesting. I don't

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Speaker 4: understand where that's come from, them lining up. But I

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Speaker 4: always say, don't line up because I have to go

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Speaker 4: and pay a white man by the name of Wilson

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Speaker 4: for parking on my own land. And if you line up,

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Speaker 4: we'll be here all bloody day and it's going to

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Speaker 4: cost me a motza.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's a politeness thing. We're not quite sure

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Speaker 1: what we're doing. It feels like a polite thing to do,

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Speaker 1: so maybe we need to step outside of that politeness

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Speaker 1: for a minute and just experience it.

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Speaker 4: I think so. And I think it's the lack of

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Speaker 4: education around the ceremony.

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Speaker 1: So, Brendan, you've been doing this for quite some time now.

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Speaker 1: I imagine you have done smoking ceremonies for some pretty

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Speaker 1: big names over the years.

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Speaker 2: Are there any that stand out for you?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I've done smoking ceremony for is he the Prime

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Speaker 4: Minister of India Modi when he came last year, Barack Obama,

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Speaker 4: the new New Zealand Prime Minister, smoking ceremony for him

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Speaker 4: and obviously our pms.

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Speaker 2: Did you a lot of sporting teams.

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Speaker 4: I've done a few sporting teams and I'd have to

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Speaker 4: say one of them I did was at Balmain West

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Speaker 4: Tigers when they just got their new facilities, and I

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Speaker 4: shared a story that I'm a Power Matter fan and

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Speaker 4: so there's a song line that runs through those lands

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Speaker 4: at our main of Burrow the Yeel. I told him

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Speaker 4: that the yield runs straight through this country. And look,

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Speaker 4: I think they got the wooden spoon last year Branton.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know if I put the mocker on

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Speaker 4: with my.

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Speaker 1: Why do the Tigers Sun Tigers will get the wooden spoon.

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Speaker 4: I'm as mad.

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Speaker 2: Oh we're coming last night.

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Speaker 4: That's a gold hone.

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Speaker 2: My mate's a big West fan. I think he's going

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Speaker 2: to be upset with you.

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Speaker 4: Look the Giants g WS, they're great. I've got to

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Speaker 4: say their respect for us and that ceremony I've done.

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Speaker 4: The AFL. They had the two soccer trophies for Faifa,

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Speaker 4: the men's and the women's at the SAG.

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Speaker 1: We hope that that has sent some pretty good vibes

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Speaker 1: to our Matilda's goals as they had to Paris. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Brendan will be at a stack of NATO Week celebrations

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Speaker 1: in coming days, so if you want to catch him

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Speaker 1: in person, he'll be at Steel Park in Marrickville on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: But to find a Naydoc Week event in your neck

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Speaker 1: of the woods, you can find the link to the

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Speaker 1: calendar in our show notes. Thanks for tuning in today, friends,

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Speaker 1: taking some time to feed your mind. The Cookie is

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Speaker 1: produced by me Claire Murphy and our senior producer Taylor Strano,

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Speaker 1: with audio production by Tom Lyon.