WEBVTT - A Brutally Honest Review Of Apple Cider Vinegar 0:00:11.189 --> 0:00:13.869 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:14.829 --> 0:00:18.349 Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:18.349 --> 0:00:20.069 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:20.309 --> 0:00:23.909 Hello, I'm m Vernon and I'm Laura Brodnick. And you've 0:00:23.949 --> 0:00:26.509 probably clicked on this episode of the Spill because you 0:00:26.629 --> 0:00:30.269 have seen Apple Cider Vinegar on Netflix and that's really 0:00:30.269 --> 0:00:33.749 really good because there are some spoilers in this episode. 0:00:34.069 --> 0:00:37.509 So the show has completely taken over Australian screens and 0:00:37.549 --> 0:00:40.829 social media feeds. And it's a six part series that 0:00:40.909 --> 0:00:45.069 stars Caitlin Diav as Belle Gibson, who's so well known 0:00:45.229 --> 0:00:49.029 as the notorious wellness scammer in Australia. And the entire 0:00:49.109 --> 0:00:51.109 slogan of the show is the best one ever. It's 0:00:51.229 --> 0:00:53.669 a truest story based on a lie. 0:00:53.949 --> 0:00:56.469 So in this episode we get into all the shocking 0:00:56.509 --> 0:00:59.589 moments from the series, including what's real and what's not, 0:01:00.029 --> 0:01:02.309 and when we tell you the real story behind some 0:01:02.349 --> 0:01:05.029 of these scenes, honestly, you'll be shocked because it seems 0:01:05.069 --> 0:01:06.189 too intense to be real. 0:01:06.389 --> 0:01:08.829 And if you like this episode, we've actually done another 0:01:08.949 --> 0:01:12.069 episode on every thing That's happened and the massive fallout 0:01:12.149 --> 0:01:14.749 from Apple side of Vinegar since the show has come 0:01:14.789 --> 0:01:22.509 out from MoMA Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily 0:01:22.509 --> 0:01:26.349 pop culture fix. I'm m Burnham and I'm Laura Brodnick, 0:01:26.669 --> 0:01:30.149 and today we have a very special episode. It's one 0:01:30.149 --> 0:01:33.509 of our brutally honest review episodes, one of my favorite 0:01:33.669 --> 0:01:34.349 of all time. 0:01:34.829 --> 0:01:36.989 So if you're not aware what a brutally honest review is, 0:01:37.029 --> 0:01:40.349 it is where we talk about the biggest TV show 0:01:40.509 --> 0:01:42.949 or movie of the moment, something that we know everyone 0:01:43.029 --> 0:01:45.949 is watching, but also something that has captured the conversation 0:01:46.149 --> 0:01:49.149 across the world. And Apple Side of Vinegar has very 0:01:49.189 --> 0:01:51.629 much done that. Just a little warning that we are 0:01:51.669 --> 0:01:54.869 going to be talking through all six episodes. We're going 0:01:54.949 --> 0:01:57.149 to be talking about things that happened behind the scenes, 0:01:57.429 --> 0:02:00.589 the true stories that inspired the biggest moments, why the 0:02:00.669 --> 0:02:03.269 ending should happen. So if you don't want spoilers, go 0:02:03.309 --> 0:02:05.669 and finish watching it and come back and listen. But 0:02:05.709 --> 0:02:07.589 I think from what we've been seeing from our audience, 0:02:07.629 --> 0:02:10.429 every single person has already devoured this series, so we 0:02:10.469 --> 0:02:10.989 should be good. 0:02:11.069 --> 0:02:13.589 I mean, it's our national ride. It's like the story, 0:02:13.949 --> 0:02:15.229 it's the story of the nation. 0:02:15.469 --> 0:02:18.829 Well, it debuted at number five worldwide, in Netflix number 0:02:18.869 --> 0:02:21.949 one in Australia, so we were primed and ready. So 0:02:22.309 --> 0:02:25.469 Apple Side of Viningar obviously the story of Belle Gibson, 0:02:25.709 --> 0:02:28.189 the controverversial wellness in NASA. 0:02:28.229 --> 0:02:31.349 Mel Gibson, because every single person I recommended this show 0:02:31.349 --> 0:02:33.909 too has been like, oh, I didn't know that he 0:02:34.069 --> 0:02:35.629 had like a show about him? 0:02:35.669 --> 0:02:36.509 Wait, who said that? 0:02:36.829 --> 0:02:39.309 Every single person I've been recommending this show. 0:02:39.149 --> 0:02:41.229 Too before they knew what the show was about. 0:02:41.509 --> 0:02:42.909 I was like, have you watch Apple Side of Vinan 0:02:42.909 --> 0:02:44.629 that I've watched about And I'm like, it's about Bell 0:02:44.669 --> 0:02:47.309 Gibson And they're like, they think they hear mel Gibson. 0:02:47.549 --> 0:02:48.629 Okay, well that's interesting. 0:02:48.869 --> 0:02:51.549 So it's not about mel Gibson the actor, it's about 0:02:51.669 --> 0:02:53.349 Bell Gibson the liar. 0:02:53.909 --> 0:02:57.509 Yes. So the Netflix series is inspired by the book 0:02:57.549 --> 0:02:59.749 The Woman Who Fooled the World, which was written by 0:02:59.829 --> 0:03:03.549 journalists Bo Donnelly and Nick Toscano. Obviously there are fictionalized 0:03:03.629 --> 0:03:05.389 versions of them in the show. They are the two 0:03:05.429 --> 0:03:09.989 journalists that originally broke the whole story around Belle Gibson 0:03:10.589 --> 0:03:13.109 lying about being diagnosed with cancer, and they did that 0:03:13.229 --> 0:03:15.829 by exposing the fact that she had lied about where 0:03:15.909 --> 0:03:19.189 she was distributing the charity funds, which was nowhere, it 0:03:19.229 --> 0:03:22.189 turns out, to herself. So the first reporting they did 0:03:22.229 --> 0:03:24.829 was in twenty fifteen, and then they published a book 0:03:24.989 --> 0:03:27.789 that had all their research in it two years later. 0:03:28.069 --> 0:03:30.389 But it was also a bigger look at the wellness 0:03:30.389 --> 0:03:33.749 industry and how Belle had used people's interest in the 0:03:33.749 --> 0:03:36.349 wellness industry and how there were no regulations around it 0:03:36.749 --> 0:03:39.829 to trick people, and the creators of the Netflix show 0:03:39.909 --> 0:03:42.549 optioned the book, and then Netflix screenlit the series in 0:03:42.549 --> 0:03:45.309 twenty twenty two, so now it's finally on our screens. 0:03:45.669 --> 0:03:48.229 When I first heard of Belle Gibson, like, I didn't 0:03:48.309 --> 0:03:51.069 realize how big a deal this was until I watched 0:03:51.109 --> 0:03:52.829 the sixty minutes interview. 0:03:52.909 --> 0:03:54.469 Did you watch it live when it happened? 0:03:54.509 --> 0:03:57.189 You mean, yeah, yeah, I watched it live because it was, like, 0:03:57.229 --> 0:04:00.429 I feel like, the most hyped up interview ever and 0:04:00.469 --> 0:04:03.429 it went so viral, And I just remember so specifically 0:04:03.549 --> 0:04:07.829 her in her like turtleneck pink sweater and just looking 0:04:08.029 --> 0:04:12.429 so she looked just like very angry but also confused, 0:04:12.469 --> 0:04:15.229 and she just never like straight away from her words. 0:04:15.269 --> 0:04:17.309 She never said that she was lying. She just thought 0:04:17.349 --> 0:04:18.549 that she honestly had cancer. 0:04:18.949 --> 0:04:22.069 Yeah, that's so interesting. I definitely remember that interview going viral, 0:04:22.069 --> 0:04:24.189 and I think that's why that out of all the 0:04:24.309 --> 0:04:27.149 stories around Belle Gibson, when you see that sixty minutes 0:04:27.229 --> 0:04:30.109 interview in the show, that's the one piece they've created 0:04:30.109 --> 0:04:32.309 word for word, obviously because they have the audio and 0:04:32.389 --> 0:04:35.309 there's no disputing what happened in the audio, but because 0:04:35.709 --> 0:04:38.349 that's become her calling card across the world of people 0:04:38.469 --> 0:04:40.989 know that story. It's interesting. I kind of knew about 0:04:41.029 --> 0:04:43.029 Belle Gibson before it broke, not that I've ever been 0:04:43.069 --> 0:04:45.669 part of wellderness cultureor anything like that, but she was 0:04:45.749 --> 0:04:47.549 just being so hyped up by so many of the 0:04:47.589 --> 0:04:49.709 publications I followed at the time, and you've seen the 0:04:49.749 --> 0:04:52.469 series her going to like the Fun Fearless Awards and 0:04:52.509 --> 0:04:54.709 all those kind of things, and like, I just remember 0:04:54.709 --> 0:04:57.269 her being in magazines I opened and being on TV. 0:04:57.429 --> 0:04:59.869 Really yeah, yeah, she was a big dealer. There's so 0:04:59.949 --> 0:05:02.749 many clips circulating now. I was watching one with Sam 0:05:02.829 --> 0:05:04.869 Armitage the other day. Again, not that she would have 0:05:04.909 --> 0:05:07.069 known anything, like you just take it at face value, 0:05:07.189 --> 0:05:09.669 and she's doing the morning show circuit. Bell Gibson and 0:05:09.709 --> 0:05:12.789 she's just talking about her life in such a natural way. 0:05:12.829 --> 0:05:15.069 And like she's talking about her app, which has been 0:05:15.389 --> 0:05:18.629 translated into like five different languages, and it's just selling everywhere, 0:05:18.669 --> 0:05:20.989 and her book is on every newsstand, you can buy 0:05:21.029 --> 0:05:23.549 it a kmart, and like everyone's just fawning over her, 0:05:23.669 --> 0:05:26.509 And why wouldn't you because she seems so natural. Like 0:05:26.549 --> 0:05:28.869 I mean again, the book publishers probably should have checked 0:05:28.909 --> 0:05:30.869 and the app developers should have checked about it. You 0:05:30.869 --> 0:05:33.909 wouldn't expect the morning show hosts to check anyway. Getting 0:05:33.949 --> 0:05:35.749 past the story of Bell Gibson because that could be 0:05:35.749 --> 0:05:37.829 a whole other podcast. Actually, we do have a whole 0:05:37.829 --> 0:05:41.669 other podcast or extraordinary stories all about Bell Gibson and 0:05:41.909 --> 0:05:44.269 her life and her fall from grace, which will link 0:05:44.309 --> 0:05:46.429 in the show notes. But let's get into the casting, 0:05:46.429 --> 0:05:49.349 because I think the casting of Bell Gibson was always 0:05:49.389 --> 0:05:51.469 going to be such a make or break and I 0:05:51.509 --> 0:05:55.029 think people were initially a little skeptical, the people who 0:05:55.069 --> 0:05:57.949 knew they were watching Bell Gibson's story, not Mel Gibson's story. 0:05:58.269 --> 0:06:01.989 Those people were a bit skeptical over American actress Kate 0:06:02.069 --> 0:06:04.029 Lindva being cast as Bell. 0:06:04.109 --> 0:06:07.869 Initially, Yeah, I was skeptical as well, because she is American, 0:06:07.949 --> 0:06:09.829 and I thought because most of the cast are a 0:06:09.869 --> 0:06:12.589 stre so I thought they would have the main person 0:06:12.709 --> 0:06:16.109 Bell be Australian. But she did it so well. Oh 0:06:16.149 --> 0:06:18.949 my god, I was like one hundred percent believable. Even 0:06:19.029 --> 0:06:22.469 like her mannerisms if you watch the comparison between the 0:06:22.509 --> 0:06:25.309 real sixty Minutes interview and like the one that was 0:06:25.349 --> 0:06:28.629 fictionalized on TV, her little like quirks and the way 0:06:28.669 --> 0:06:30.829 she raised her eyebrows and even the way she like 0:06:30.909 --> 0:06:34.269 blinks sometimes is exactly like Belle Gibson. I don't know 0:06:34.309 --> 0:06:36.109 how she did it, but she absolutely nailed it. 0:06:36.189 --> 0:06:38.149 Yeah, she did nail it. I think also having like 0:06:38.189 --> 0:06:40.189 a big name but not so big enough a name, 0:06:40.269 --> 0:06:43.669 that the casting of her overshadowed this series because I 0:06:43.709 --> 0:06:45.949 think some people like we have obviously been long term 0:06:45.989 --> 0:06:49.749 fans of Caitlin Diver because of book, Smart and unbelievable 0:06:49.909 --> 0:06:51.829 and just like a lot of other different work that 0:06:51.869 --> 0:06:53.989 she's done, but I think like a lot of people 0:06:54.189 --> 0:06:56.029 might have been coming to her for the first time 0:06:56.069 --> 0:06:58.349 in this so she was kind of believable as Belle. 0:06:58.549 --> 0:07:02.109 Interestingly enough that the two other actresses are both Australian actresses, 0:07:02.389 --> 0:07:05.629 but have found fame pretty much only playing until recently 0:07:06.029 --> 0:07:08.709 American characters. I guess it's like if they can do it. 0:07:09.029 --> 0:07:12.629 So Alicia didn't Ha plays Miller Blake. So a lot 0:07:12.629 --> 0:07:14.589 of people would know Alisha from The hundred and one 0:07:14.589 --> 0:07:17.029 of the best shows ever and Fear the Walking Dead, 0:07:17.189 --> 0:07:19.309 but reason one of your favorite shows ever? No, no, no, 0:07:19.349 --> 0:07:21.269 I'm a Walking Dead fan, not Fear the Walking Dead. 0:07:21.309 --> 0:07:24.349 That's a different fandom. But she was on that show 0:07:24.389 --> 0:07:27.069 for a very long time, and they're two big American franchises. 0:07:27.509 --> 0:07:29.629 And then recently she was on The Lost Flowers of 0:07:29.629 --> 0:07:31.909 Alice Hart, so she's doing a bit more Australian work. 0:07:32.189 --> 0:07:35.229 And then Asha d very famously was an actress who 0:07:35.669 --> 0:07:37.709 couldn't get a lot of work in Australia, and she's 0:07:37.709 --> 0:07:39.509 talked about the fact that being a woman of color 0:07:39.709 --> 0:07:41.789 initially shut her out of a lot of those kind 0:07:41.869 --> 0:07:44.749 of soap operas or like kids shows. So she went 0:07:44.789 --> 0:07:48.069 overseas and found huge fame on a great show I 0:07:48.109 --> 0:07:50.509 would say the bold type. Yes as Cat and then 0:07:50.549 --> 0:07:52.789 as returned to Australian has been starring and lots of 0:07:52.829 --> 0:07:53.629 interesting things. 0:07:53.709 --> 0:07:56.589 She's got a very interesting accent. It's like a hybrid 0:07:56.709 --> 0:07:59.189 version of American Australian and she kind of kept it 0:07:59.269 --> 0:08:02.669 throughout the movie, like she didn't go a hardcore Australian accent, 0:08:03.069 --> 0:08:04.989 and I thought that was quite interesting, Like no one 0:08:05.029 --> 0:08:05.549 addressed that. 0:08:06.109 --> 0:08:08.349 The four kind of main females I thought were all 0:08:08.549 --> 0:08:11.229 incredibly cast. Five, I guess if you're really counting in 0:08:11.309 --> 0:08:14.469 Susie Porter as Tamara Miller's mother. And I think Susie 0:08:14.509 --> 0:08:15.349 Porter's always. 0:08:15.149 --> 0:08:16.989 Been Oh my god, she was so good. 0:08:17.029 --> 0:08:19.429 I've just she's one of those astrain actresses who's just 0:08:19.629 --> 0:08:23.069 in everything but is not like an international name, but 0:08:23.509 --> 0:08:26.189 has this huge body of work. And she was incredible. 0:08:26.469 --> 0:08:29.709 And then Tilda crobham Hervey as Lucy I thought was amazing. 0:08:29.869 --> 0:08:32.589 She played Helen Ready in the movie about her life. 0:08:32.709 --> 0:08:37.309 And do you hate her because she's dev Pateel's partner, Yeah, yeah. 0:08:36.869 --> 0:08:39.429 But because of her, like dev Ptel has been spending 0:08:39.429 --> 0:08:41.629 a lot of time in Adelaide and Adelaide together. 0:08:41.829 --> 0:08:42.629 That's either here nor there. 0:08:42.669 --> 0:08:44.709 I wouldn't mind seeing bumping into him at like a 0:08:44.709 --> 0:08:45.829 farmer's market or something. 0:08:45.869 --> 0:08:47.669 Well, you might do, but he'll have Tilda with him 0:08:47.669 --> 0:08:48.309 and she's lovely. 0:08:48.349 --> 0:08:49.469 Thanks Tilda for bringing him. 0:08:52.349 --> 0:08:54.189 I'd lied to welcome on the stage. 0:08:54.389 --> 0:08:59.429 Shelle Gibson. It must have affected her that my book 0:08:59.469 --> 0:09:02.269 was reviewed as better than hers. I'm sorry. 0:09:02.509 --> 0:09:08.229 Who's her Miller? She was diagnosed with cancer, so she's 0:09:08.269 --> 0:09:11.549 consistently maintained. I have no reason to doubt her because 0:09:11.589 --> 0:09:16.189 in her case it's true. It's funny my doctor said 0:09:16.269 --> 0:09:19.869 you have brain cancer. He's a bloggie my life. She's 0:09:20.069 --> 0:09:24.109 just like you. We do look incredibly well. 0:09:24.509 --> 0:09:25.429 I've never felt better. 0:09:26.789 --> 0:09:30.109 I have to find the right way for me. I 0:09:30.309 --> 0:09:35.269 just got each other. Loved the session for all body goosebumps. 0:09:35.429 --> 0:09:42.389 Thanks for coming Bell Bell Gibson the brain cancer right, 0:09:45.389 --> 0:09:47.669 So we should probably talk about the character of Milla Blake, 0:09:47.669 --> 0:09:51.189 who's also really set up to be the lead alongside 0:09:51.189 --> 0:09:53.669 Belle Gibson. The creators of the show have said that 0:09:53.989 --> 0:09:56.029 this was never meant to be like the rise and 0:09:56.109 --> 0:09:58.149 fall of Bell Gibson. She was only meant to be 0:09:58.269 --> 0:09:59.949 one part of it, and that's why it's called Apple 0:09:59.949 --> 0:10:03.109 side of Vinegar. It's not named after her because they 0:10:03.109 --> 0:10:06.149 wanted to show it as like how wellness influencers used 0:10:06.189 --> 0:10:08.709 Instagram at the time but obviously because she is the 0:10:08.709 --> 0:10:11.989 big name, we really have like hooked onto that. What 0:10:12.029 --> 0:10:14.269 did you think about the disclaimers at the beginning of 0:10:14.269 --> 0:10:16.389 each episode where they break the fourth wall, So like 0:10:16.429 --> 0:10:18.949 the first time we see Caitlyn Diva do it where 0:10:18.989 --> 0:10:20.789 she looks to the camera and said, some names have 0:10:20.869 --> 0:10:23.269 been changed to protect the innocent. Belle Gibson has not 0:10:23.349 --> 0:10:25.189 been paid for the recreation of her story. 0:10:25.309 --> 0:10:28.109 Is there a reason why, like they do it for 0:10:28.189 --> 0:10:30.749 every single episode, Like, is there like some contract or 0:10:30.829 --> 0:10:33.349 legalities behind that? Because I was like, I liked it 0:10:33.389 --> 0:10:35.669 for the first episode, especially because it was Caitlyn Diva 0:10:35.709 --> 0:10:39.109 and she's still being bell where she says Belle Gibson 0:10:39.149 --> 0:10:40.749 was not compensated for that, and she's like, of course 0:10:40.749 --> 0:10:44.709 she was fucking wasn't that? Yeah, fuckers? But after like 0:10:44.789 --> 0:10:46.069 the first one, I was like, I don't need to 0:10:46.109 --> 0:10:46.629 hear this again. 0:10:46.789 --> 0:10:49.149 No, there's a reason they Actually there's two reasons why 0:10:49.189 --> 0:10:51.829 they did it for every single episode. One is that 0:10:51.949 --> 0:10:55.029 the creator and writer of Apple Side of Vinegar, Samantha Strauss, 0:10:55.229 --> 0:10:57.469 thought it was just really important to include from a 0:10:57.509 --> 0:11:00.469 moral standpoint, So she said she'd optioned the book and 0:11:00.509 --> 0:11:02.229 she was going into production and she was writing the 0:11:02.309 --> 0:11:05.109 script and she was talking to a friend whose partner 0:11:05.149 --> 0:11:09.229 has brain cancer, and she said they were absolutely horrified, 0:11:09.589 --> 0:11:11.869 Like Samantha, his friends said, horrify that she was doing 0:11:11.949 --> 0:11:14.109 this show. And they had said, why would you give 0:11:14.109 --> 0:11:16.269 this woman more oxygen? Don't you know what she's done, 0:11:16.309 --> 0:11:18.869 don't you know what she's still doing? And is she 0:11:18.909 --> 0:11:21.189 being paid from it? And that was the question that 0:11:21.189 --> 0:11:23.989 Samantha found every time she talked to people about the show, 0:11:24.509 --> 0:11:26.709 is that they all just assumed that Belle Gibson was 0:11:26.749 --> 0:11:29.189 in some way involved or assumed that she had to 0:11:29.229 --> 0:11:30.749 be paid for it in some way. And for so 0:11:30.829 --> 0:11:34.109 many people, especially people who had donated to her causes 0:11:34.149 --> 0:11:35.509 as we see in the show, and then like the 0:11:35.509 --> 0:11:38.069 money never went to those people, People who had bought 0:11:38.109 --> 0:11:40.589 her books and apps and you know, lost money and 0:11:40.709 --> 0:11:42.469 they could have been spending on other things, or people 0:11:42.469 --> 0:11:44.469 who followed her for years and felt tricked, or. 0:11:44.469 --> 0:11:47.069 People who could have just died from like following like. 0:11:47.109 --> 0:11:49.309 Her by her saying I kid my cancer and using 0:11:49.309 --> 0:11:51.349 this happy, beautiful woman and you're like, yeah, I could 0:11:51.389 --> 0:11:54.269 have that. So people were really upset that they thought 0:11:54.269 --> 0:11:56.389 she was profiting off the Netflix show, So they thought 0:11:56.429 --> 0:12:00.509 they had to really hammer home in every single episode 0:12:00.549 --> 0:12:03.429 that she wasn't just so people knew that wasn't happening. 0:12:03.669 --> 0:12:06.709 But also the other big thing was the defamation part 0:12:06.749 --> 0:12:09.269 of it. Obviously it would be kind of hard to 0:12:09.309 --> 0:12:09.989 defame Bellgi. 0:12:10.749 --> 0:12:13.149 It's really confusing to me because, like they name her, 0:12:13.309 --> 0:12:15.509 they go through a lot of things like in detail 0:12:15.709 --> 0:12:19.709 of like everything that Belle Gibson has done, and I wonder, 0:12:19.789 --> 0:12:21.829 like how do they get away with doing that? Like 0:12:21.909 --> 0:12:24.189 how could they make themselves fit safe? 0:12:24.589 --> 0:12:27.589 Well, one thing with defamation is that the person who's 0:12:27.629 --> 0:12:31.989 claiming to have been defamed has to prove that a 0:12:32.069 --> 0:12:34.869 publication is lying about them in a way that has 0:12:34.949 --> 0:12:38.909 taken away their reputation. Obviously, there's a lot more legal lays. 0:12:39.029 --> 0:12:40.669 This is just a very top white explanation. 0:12:40.909 --> 0:12:42.549 Do they get away with it because she doesn't have 0:12:42.589 --> 0:12:43.309 a reputation? 0:12:43.549 --> 0:12:46.269 No? No, she can't prove she has cancer, and she 0:12:46.349 --> 0:12:49.189 can't prove that she gave the money to charity, and 0:12:49.229 --> 0:12:52.309 she can't all those things. She can't prove. The other thing, though, 0:12:52.349 --> 0:12:55.149 is that they keep saying this is a true ish 0:12:55.189 --> 0:12:58.749 story based on a lie, and what we've seen recently 0:12:58.789 --> 0:13:01.829 with a few shows, like namely Baby Reindeer is that 0:13:01.909 --> 0:13:04.629 they say this is based on a true story, which 0:13:04.669 --> 0:13:07.509 is why the woman who Baby Reindeer is about has 0:13:07.589 --> 0:13:09.549 now been given the green light to go ahead with 0:13:09.549 --> 0:13:13.509 a hundreds seventy million dollar defamation suit against Netflix because 0:13:13.509 --> 0:13:15.669 they said this is a true story rather than saying 0:13:15.709 --> 0:13:18.829 this is based on a true story. So every time 0:13:19.189 --> 0:13:21.629 the characters in the Netflix show say this is a 0:13:21.669 --> 0:13:25.389 true ish story based on a lie, names have been changed, 0:13:25.789 --> 0:13:29.229 they're immediately deflecting a lot of the defamation because they're 0:13:29.229 --> 0:13:31.789 not claiming it's real. Like and also a lot of 0:13:31.829 --> 0:13:33.469 people like, we're going to go through the characters now 0:13:33.469 --> 0:13:35.989 and say who's real and who's not. The creators of 0:13:35.989 --> 0:13:38.349 the show haven't actually come out except for saying that 0:13:38.349 --> 0:13:41.149 Bell Gibson is based on Bell Gibson. They haven't actually 0:13:41.149 --> 0:13:42.869 come out and said a lot of these people are 0:13:42.869 --> 0:13:45.309 based on the people who we have just been able 0:13:45.309 --> 0:13:47.389 to piece that together because of defamation. 0:13:47.909 --> 0:13:52.309 Yeah, there was one character, Miller Blake in particular, who 0:13:52.829 --> 0:13:56.909 I remember we wrote about an influencer years ago named 0:13:57.109 --> 0:14:01.269 jess Ainsko, and I was like, this is exactly the 0:14:01.349 --> 0:14:05.549 same person, Like it's exactly Jess, And that confused me 0:14:05.669 --> 0:14:09.309 because Jess was, like, I guess Belle's competitor in this 0:14:09.549 --> 0:14:14.229 like wellness space of curing cancer through natural remedies rather 0:14:14.269 --> 0:14:17.629 than like the clinical side of things. And she tragically 0:14:17.669 --> 0:14:19.989 passed away from her cancer and she had the same 0:14:20.269 --> 0:14:22.669 like Miller in the show had the exact same type 0:14:22.669 --> 0:14:25.909 of cancer as Jes did. Jess's mother passed away from 0:14:26.229 --> 0:14:31.109 going through Jess's like alternative medicine root, and then Miller's 0:14:31.149 --> 0:14:34.229 mom passed away. So I was like, this is spot on, 0:14:34.429 --> 0:14:36.549 but why would they change the name? 0:14:37.189 --> 0:14:39.909 Well, that's the interesting thing with Jessica ames Co is 0:14:39.949 --> 0:14:42.469 that the show has said that she's just one of 0:14:42.509 --> 0:14:45.749 the influences that the character of Milla Blake is based on. 0:14:46.029 --> 0:14:47.869 But when you look like you're saying, when you look 0:14:47.909 --> 0:14:49.909 at the comparison, like, no, it was her, it seems 0:14:49.909 --> 0:14:52.509 almost pretty much based on her. So in the show 0:14:52.549 --> 0:14:54.829 we see her working in the girlfriend office, but in 0:14:54.869 --> 0:14:57.589 real life she did work at Dolly. When being diagnosed 0:14:57.589 --> 0:14:59.909 with a very rare cancer that does start in the arm, 0:15:00.069 --> 0:15:03.269 she said yes to chemotherapy originally as Miller does on 0:15:03.309 --> 0:15:06.709 the show, and then they have renamed the type of 0:15:06.949 --> 0:15:09.869 alternative health medicine in the show from what she went 0:15:09.909 --> 0:15:12.069 through in real life. But it was basically almost exactly 0:15:12.069 --> 0:15:14.749 the same thing of the idea of like no toxins, 0:15:14.789 --> 0:15:18.189 no alcohol, no sugar, coffee enemas. And that was how 0:15:18.589 --> 0:15:21.669 Jess ains Coe became very famous, Like she was almost 0:15:21.669 --> 0:15:26.109 became an influencer before influencers were really a thing, because 0:15:26.149 --> 0:15:28.149 she was there at the birth of Instagram, but also 0:15:28.189 --> 0:15:31.349 she started before Instagrayah, like she moved her blog is 0:15:31.349 --> 0:15:33.509 where she gained so much traction, and then she was 0:15:33.549 --> 0:15:37.149 able to parlay that fame as Belle did, into books, 0:15:37.149 --> 0:15:40.629 into speaking to us, into winning awards. Alicia dem Nakara, 0:15:40.709 --> 0:15:42.509 who plays her, said that she's meant to be an 0:15:42.509 --> 0:15:46.229 amalgamation of different influencers, which we can obviously see. 0:15:46.029 --> 0:15:48.109 That ninety percent of one particular influence. 0:15:48.189 --> 0:15:50.509 That it's hard because a lot of Jess's blogs that 0:15:50.589 --> 0:15:52.749 she wrote at the time have been marked a private 0:15:52.789 --> 0:15:54.469 and the videos that she made, but a lot of 0:15:54.509 --> 0:15:56.189 the work that she did is still around so you 0:15:56.229 --> 0:15:58.589 can go and read it. And the way she talks 0:15:58.589 --> 0:16:01.429 and her turn of phrase and everything is very similar 0:16:01.469 --> 0:16:04.069 to the character. So they've really embedded that and as 0:16:04.069 --> 0:16:06.469 you're saying the same thing with her like personal life, 0:16:06.549 --> 0:16:09.149 like she was very much in love and married her 0:16:09.229 --> 0:16:13.269 husband Talan, you know, before she passed away, and her mother, 0:16:13.309 --> 0:16:15.909 who she was very close with, after she was diagnosed 0:16:15.909 --> 0:16:19.309 with breast cancer, followed her daughter's health advice and that's 0:16:19.309 --> 0:16:22.429 why she died. And one of Jessica's last blog posts, 0:16:22.429 --> 0:16:25.389 which is horrific, as talking about how her body had 0:16:25.389 --> 0:16:27.269 just deteriorated and saying that she didn't know how to 0:16:27.269 --> 0:16:29.629 live in a world without her mother, which is kind 0:16:29.629 --> 0:16:31.869 of like a you know, a story that we see 0:16:32.189 --> 0:16:34.069 mirroat in the show, but they. 0:16:33.909 --> 0:16:35.509 Also make her quite unlikable. 0:16:35.749 --> 0:16:36.989 Did you think so? Yes? 0:16:37.149 --> 0:16:40.709 I hated her character, did you yeah? Interestingly I kind 0:16:40.709 --> 0:16:41.789 of hated her more than Bell. 0:16:42.149 --> 0:16:47.229 It's interesting at different parts of the show, I really 0:16:47.229 --> 0:16:50.149 dislike these women, and then sometimes I just felt so 0:16:50.269 --> 0:16:53.509 much empathy for them, even Belle Gibson. Like so many 0:16:53.549 --> 0:16:55.709 people who were going into the show, because obviously we 0:16:55.749 --> 0:16:57.589 got to watch it a bit early, so many people 0:16:57.629 --> 0:16:59.269 going into the show said to me like, oh, I 0:16:59.269 --> 0:17:01.549 hate Belle Gibson. I can't wait to watch this, And 0:17:01.589 --> 0:17:03.309 I had to say to them like it's not this 0:17:03.509 --> 0:17:05.509 big take down of her that you think it's going 0:17:05.549 --> 0:17:08.349 to be, Like she's humanized in a really interesting way, 0:17:08.389 --> 0:17:10.549 is that, especially in the first episode where you see 0:17:10.549 --> 0:17:14.709 her just this like lonely lost young woman who is 0:17:14.869 --> 0:17:17.509 pregnant and has no support and has obviously come from 0:17:17.549 --> 0:17:19.989 a terrible home excusing what she did. But I think 0:17:19.989 --> 0:17:22.389 it's also interesting to sort of see that, like a 0:17:22.429 --> 0:17:24.509 lot of people who do terrible things in life, like 0:17:24.549 --> 0:17:26.829 they don't just appear out of thin air and act 0:17:26.909 --> 0:17:28.709 that way, Like there's a lot of lead up that 0:17:28.829 --> 0:17:30.669 goes there. Yeah, And I thought they did a really 0:17:30.709 --> 0:17:32.829 good job of humanizing her. So by the time she 0:17:32.829 --> 0:17:36.429 starts like lying about having cancer, I like totally understood 0:17:36.429 --> 0:17:38.589 why she did that. Those graphics on the screen where 0:17:38.589 --> 0:17:40.709 they have all the light and the red and the 0:17:40.709 --> 0:17:43.269 gold colors that come out of her phone and like 0:17:43.469 --> 0:17:46.509 envelop her in love when she reaches out for help online, 0:17:46.629 --> 0:17:49.709 I thought was like a really accurate representation of the 0:17:49.749 --> 0:17:52.149 dopamine hit you get when you get love. 0:17:52.029 --> 0:17:55.229 From social addictive. Like if you've ever had like a 0:17:55.229 --> 0:17:58.829 piece of social media be validated by a whole bunch 0:17:58.909 --> 0:18:01.229 of strangers, it's like you run on that high for 0:18:01.269 --> 0:18:03.909 so long and you just constantly need the another post 0:18:03.909 --> 0:18:04.789 to go as viral. 0:18:05.269 --> 0:18:07.309 And what part about Miller didn't you like just that 0:18:07.389 --> 0:18:10.589 she wasn't saying yes to the cancer treatment or was 0:18:10.629 --> 0:18:12.069 she kind of evolved as an influencer. 0:18:12.189 --> 0:18:15.029 I think it was when she brought her mom into 0:18:15.109 --> 0:18:18.989 it that like absolutely destroyed me, especially the scene with 0:18:19.029 --> 0:18:22.109 her dad saying to her mom, she's killing you. She's 0:18:22.149 --> 0:18:23.589 going to kill you and she's like, no, I'm not. 0:18:25.109 --> 0:18:27.389 It's so like hard and then like her mom And 0:18:27.429 --> 0:18:29.229 this is why Susie Port I thought was brilliant in 0:18:29.269 --> 0:18:32.509 this role when she said what kind of mother would 0:18:32.549 --> 0:18:33.669 I be if I don't do this? 0:18:34.109 --> 0:18:34.429