Speaker 1: Queenie was incredible for who she is. But Queennie was
Speaker 1: only one representation of autism, and she was an extremely
Speaker 1: palatable version of autism. She was very manic, pixie dream
Speaker 1: girl autism. She was very cute, and she was very quirky,
Speaker 1: and she wasn't controversial, and she.
Speaker 2: Was very sweet, and that's palatable.
Speaker 1: So it's an easy, digestible way for people to go okay,
Speaker 1: I can accept autism.
Speaker 3: For most of her childhood, Chloe Hayden felt like she
Speaker 3: didn't belong anywhere. She was bullied at school, moved through
Speaker 3: ten different schools, and struggled to exist in environments that
Speaker 3: simply didn't understand her. When she was diagnosed as autistic
Speaker 3: at thirteen, it helped explain a lifetime of feeling different,
Speaker 3: But at the time, there were almost no conversations about
Speaker 3: neurodivergence and certainly no one she could look to who
Speaker 3: felt like her. Today, Chloe has become that person for
Speaker 3: millions of others through her role in Netflix's Heartbreak High
Speaker 3: and her advocacy online. She's become one of the most
Speaker 3: visible autistic women in the world. But becoming a voice
Speaker 3: for others comes with its own pressure. Today, on No Filter,
Speaker 3: Chloe Hayden joins me to talk about the cost of
Speaker 3: being the autistic woman everyone looks to. Chloe Hayden, Welcome
Speaker 3: to No Filter.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's like a perfect it's a perfect
Speaker 3: venue for you. I think because you have lived your
Speaker 3: life being seen and kind of divesting yourself of things
Speaker 3: that at one point in your life I gather held
Speaker 3: you back or were not understood. How did you start
Speaker 3: to go, I'm not gonna hide things or mask things,
Speaker 3: or I'm going to strip myself bare and see what happens.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's maybe two parts to this. First
Speaker 1: of all, despite the fact that I knew for my
Speaker 1: entire life that I was different, and also was told
Speaker 1: by from my entire life that I was different by friends,
Speaker 1: like other kids and peers and teachers, and growing ups
Speaker 1: in my life, I had everyone told me that I
Speaker 1: was different and that different was wrong.
Speaker 2: But my family.
Speaker 1: Always told me that my difference was magic and that
Speaker 1: I was incredible because I was different. And so despite
Speaker 1: the fact that everyone in my outer circle made it
Speaker 1: seem like it was a bad thing, I never actually
Speaker 1: believed that I couldn't achieve whatever I wanted because my
Speaker 1: family have always been my biggest cheerleader, and so I
Speaker 1: think I.
Speaker 2: Owe a lot to them, and I owe a lot
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 1: Fact that I have felt like I've been able to
Speaker 1: step out and just like take the world is because
Speaker 1: I was never told I couldn't.
Speaker 2: And then I think the first time that.
Speaker 1: Really properly showcased itself is when I was thirteen and
Speaker 1: I got diagnosed with autism. I went and I googled it,
Speaker 1: and the only things that showed up were resources for
Speaker 1: parents that were suffering because their child was autistic and
Speaker 1: curious for autism. And so when I didn't see anyone
Speaker 1: that was positively advocating Dustin.
Speaker 3: Hoffman, Didustin Hoffman pop up?
Speaker 2: Oh, but the whole kit and caboodle popped up? I had.
Speaker 1: I saw an ad pop up that at the time
Speaker 1: was still playing in America that the monologue in the
Speaker 1: background was, I am autism. I will ruin your family.
Speaker 1: If you were scared of me, you should be. It
Speaker 1: was still playing in America that when I was diagnosed,
Speaker 1: and so I went, I'm not accepting that for us,
Speaker 1: and I started talking about it.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of the first was that when you
Speaker 2: started the YouTube thing.
Speaker 1: So I actually started an anonymous blog first, and then
Speaker 1: I had a lot of people reaching out to me saying,
Speaker 1: can you make a YouTube on this because my kid
Speaker 1: needs to read this and they struggle with reading, or
Speaker 1: they need to be able to read lips or something
Speaker 1: like that. And so I went un anonymous and started
Speaker 1: posting my face on YouTube and that kind of is
Speaker 1: the start of everything and how and why I am
Speaker 1: sitting here today.
Speaker 3: You know, how you talk about your family and the
Speaker 3: you know, the way that you were seeing within the
Speaker 3: family which was kind of different to the external world.
Speaker 3: What was the nature of your family, like, what was
Speaker 3: the makeup of your family and what role did you
Speaker 3: play within the family that was different?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay, so I have a pretty big family. I'm the
Speaker 1: oldest of four siblings. I've got but two brothers, two sisters,
Speaker 1: two biological to adopted from Taiwan, and I'm the oldest.
Speaker 1: My mum and dad have both recently been diagnosed as
Speaker 1: nurotivergent as well, which makes a lot of sense. How
Speaker 1: recently in the last twelve months, Oh really both of them?
Speaker 3: And like with an overlap, is are they do? They
Speaker 3: live in a ben diagram together with their diagnosis or
Speaker 3: different parts of spectrum or.
Speaker 1: So my mom is diagnosed ADHD, I'm pretty sure she's
Speaker 1: autistic too.
Speaker 3: I'll diagnose her Chloe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then my dad is autistic ADHD. And it's so
Speaker 1: funny because growing up, my dad was always like, she's
Speaker 1: not weird. I do that, And I was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know. Like I remember growing up, my
Speaker 1: dad used to try to like help my autism. And
Speaker 1: so whenever we would go to the show or a
Speaker 1: petrol station or pick up my siblings from school, he'd
Speaker 1: make me be the one that went in and paid
Speaker 1: or went in and collected from the school. And he
Speaker 1: always said, I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this
Speaker 1: so you can learn how to function in society. However,
Speaker 1: I knew for a damn fact that man was just
Speaker 1: using that as an excuse because he didn't want to
Speaker 1: go in and interact with way. And so when he
Speaker 1: got diagnosed in his fifties.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a shock to anyone.
Speaker 3: Was a shocked to him.
Speaker 2: I think, look, I think that's his story to tell.
Speaker 1: But I know that being a fifty year old man
Speaker 1: and growing up in the society that fifty year old men.
Speaker 2: Grew up in.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I think there was a lot of grief
Speaker 1: that came with not knowing, But I don't think he
Speaker 1: was shocked.
Speaker 2: I think, well, there was something in him that made
Speaker 2: him explore it.
Speaker 1: And we've always been so close and we've always related
Speaker 1: so much on everything, So I think, you know, he
Speaker 1: always and he's always said, you know, you got your
Speaker 1: EADHD from your.
Speaker 2: Mum, you got your autogym from it, right, We've always
Speaker 2: dreamt about that.
Speaker 3: So when you say like that you were different, and
Speaker 3: I do, I think one of my favorite things is
Speaker 3: when difference moves from being something that's othered in a
Speaker 3: negative way to actually being celebrated by the person and
Speaker 3: by the world at large. It's an extraordinary period of
Speaker 3: growth and celebration for everyone. I think. And this has
Speaker 3: been the story of your life so far and will
Speaker 3: continue to be. But when you say you were different,
Speaker 3: how did the difference manifest itself? And bear in mind
Speaker 3: we're talking about a time where, particularly for young girls,
Speaker 3: young women, there was not so much diagnosis of autism.
Speaker 1: No, and also being different was social exclusion. You were
Speaker 1: not allowed to be different. As a twelve year old
Speaker 1: girl being different with social suicide.
Speaker 2: But I've known I was different my whole But in
Speaker 2: what why were you different?
Speaker 3: Because there's something about particularly teenage girls where they like
Speaker 3: to be in lockstep. Yeah you know, same close, same whatever,
Speaker 3: same reaction. If someone tells a joke, you look at
Speaker 3: your girlfriends first to say how they respond before you decide, Yeah,
Speaker 3: how were you in all.
Speaker 2: Of those ways you described?
Speaker 1: I dressed different, I spoke different, I acted different, and
Speaker 1: I did everything in my power to try not to be.
Speaker 1: I think the reason why I'm such a good actor
Speaker 1: is because I had to do it my entire life.
Speaker 1: There was I would watch YouTubers, and there would be
Speaker 1: YouTubers that I thought were really really cool, and I
Speaker 1: could mask and mimic their personalities so well that I
Speaker 1: would have so many people come up to me and
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, you remind me so much
Speaker 1: of enter the exact YouTuber that I was mimicking. And
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh my god, that it's crazy. I've
Speaker 1: never even.
Speaker 3: Heard of them before. Wow, And it'd been a study
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would watch them, and I would watch the way
Speaker 1: that they moved their hands when they spoke or moved
Speaker 1: to the head when they spoke, or they're like very
Speaker 1: really really specific intonations on words, And I would go
Speaker 1: to the mirror and I would copy it exactly, and
Speaker 1: I would film myself and copy it exactly. I studied
Speaker 1: it so hard because I knew that these people were liked,
Speaker 1: and I know that Chloe, as my genuine self, was
Speaker 1: not liked, and so I knew that the only way
Speaker 1: that it could survive in this world was by copying
Speaker 1: other people. And that's how I learned how to survive.
Speaker 2: And that's how you learned to be an actor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's incredible.
Speaker 3: Once again, what looks like a hindrance and looks like
Speaker 3: a liability has turned out to be an assey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess in disguise. Yeah, for sure. I think.
Speaker 1: Look, maybe it's kind of toxic positivity. But for myself
Speaker 1: and for my story, I believe that everything happens for
Speaker 1: a reason, And a lot of the stories and a
Speaker 1: lot of the pages in my story I would rip
Speaker 1: out in a heartbeat if I could, but I can't,
Speaker 1: and that's not the way that the world works, and
Speaker 1: that's not the way that my story works. So I've
Speaker 1: got these pages, and so I might as well do
Speaker 1: something positive with them.
Speaker 3: And so what made your parents take you and start
Speaker 3: that process of that ended up in you getting diagnosed
Speaker 3: as autistic.
Speaker 1: So I had a lot of struggles at school. I
Speaker 1: had been in maybe like ten schools by the time
Speaker 1: I was in year eight. That's amazing, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I got bullied really really horrifically by students and by teachers,
Speaker 1: and was getting in trouble all the time and was
Speaker 1: just really really struggling. And the older I got, the
Speaker 1: more that those struggles became obvious. And it was my
Speaker 1: English teacher in year eight that called my parents in
Speaker 1: and said, I think there might be something wrong with
Speaker 1: your daughter. And she showed them my school work, and
Speaker 1: she showed them my school reports and my locker and
Speaker 1: how messy it was and how disorganized it was, and
Speaker 1: said she she doesn't have friends, she doesn't play with anyone.
Speaker 1: She hides in like the corner every single day at lunchtime.
Speaker 1: She doesn't interact with people. She's just not at the
Speaker 1: same standard that the other kids are. I think there
Speaker 1: might be something wrong with her. And initially I went
Speaker 1: and I got AMRI scans done on my brain because
Speaker 1: I have a pony who is literally the spawn of Satan.
Speaker 2: And I have.
Speaker 1: I had owned her for about a year at that point,
Speaker 1: and in that year of owning her, I think she'd
Speaker 1: given me about eight concussions. And my parents thought that
Speaker 1: I had brain damage because how many times have been
Speaker 1: thrown off my pony. I also was really really sick
Speaker 1: as a baby, and they thought that maybe that sickness
Speaker 1: had again changed my brain, and so they did AMRI test.
Speaker 2: First and they all came back normal.
Speaker 1: And then I went to a psychiatrist and started the
Speaker 1: process of getting diagnosed with autism. And she said pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: you know, we know that she's autistic, we just have
Speaker 1: to go through the formal testing now. And so I
Speaker 1: think it was maybe six weeks worth of testing, and
Speaker 1: after the last appointment, my mom walked out with my
Speaker 1: paperwork in this really big book that was like a
Speaker 1: full Bible, and autism right, and yeah, that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of how it happens.
Speaker 3: So that's amazing because these many amazing people in that story.
Speaker 3: One of them is your English teacher, who, in those
Speaker 3: eight years of schooling, was the first person.
Speaker 1: She was part of the reason why I got the diagnosis.
Speaker 1: But she wasn't a very kind woman. Okay, so she
Speaker 1: wasn't going I think we should help her. She was going,
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with her. We can't do anything for her.
Speaker 1: I did, however, have one teacher when I was in
Speaker 1: year four, and her name was Wendy, and she I
Speaker 1: always talk about sidekicks and how in our stories were
Speaker 1: our main characters, but every single story has to have
Speaker 1: a sidekick, and sometimes the sidekicks are actually the most
Speaker 1: important characters.
Speaker 2: And my biggest.
Speaker 1: Sidekick growing up was my year four teacher, Wendy, and
Speaker 1: she knew I was different, but she saw that difference
Speaker 1: as a positive thing, and she never tried to change me.
Speaker 1: She saw what I struggled with, and she saw what
Speaker 1: I was really good at, and she focused on what
Speaker 1: I was good at, and she supported me with what
Speaker 1: I struggled with. Every single lunchtime, she knew how much
Speaker 1: I hated lunchtime because I would just get bullied by
Speaker 1: all of the other kids, and she would let me
Speaker 1: hang out with her and we would call it together,
Speaker 1: and she would bring her border Coolie in every day.
Speaker 2: The animals such, yeah, animals are so important to me.
Speaker 1: During assignments, she would let me do my history assignments
Speaker 1: on Titanic because that's what my special interest is. She
Speaker 1: would let me just yap to her for hours about
Speaker 1: horses and about Titanic and about dolphins and about the ocean.
Speaker 1: And she encouraged every single part of me that made
Speaker 1: me good and didn't care about the part to me
Speaker 1: that weren't good. And I owe so much of who
Speaker 1: I am now to her.
Speaker 3: That's extraordinary. But there must have been a part of
Speaker 3: you if you go forward from year four and windy
Speaker 3: to wanting an explanation yourself. So when you had the Mriyes,
Speaker 3: was there a part of you that went, maybe it
Speaker 3: is the falling from the pony, even though you must
Speaker 3: have always known because you'd lived inside yourself. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: it wasn't that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: For sure. I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I have so many parents that talk to me now saying, oh,
Speaker 1: my kids just been diagnosed autistic, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to tell them, And that's always so bizarre to me
Speaker 1: because humans label things. It's what we do because we're
Speaker 1: all stupid and have little monkey pea breeds, and we
Speaker 1: need to label things to feel comfortable with them. And
Speaker 1: people are scared of having a label of autism because
Speaker 1: they think that you have now labeled something. But what
Speaker 1: they don't understand is that we label everything, and your
Speaker 1: child may not be labeled autistic, but to their peers,
Speaker 1: they're going to be labeled as something else, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be a word that isn't kind. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: changing that label to one that actually has diagnostic value
Speaker 1: and that they can actually understand and that they can
Speaker 1: learn better about their brain and how they function throughout
Speaker 1: the world is so so important because they're going to
Speaker 1: have an autistic brain from the day that they're born
Speaker 1: to the day that they die. The best thing you
Speaker 1: can do for them is have that diagnosis and have
Speaker 1: that understanding so that they can better move throughout the
Speaker 1: world not thinking that they're a broken, normal person, but
Speaker 1: they're a perfect autistic person.
Speaker 3: Coming up next, Chloe talks about the bullying she endured
Speaker 3: at school and how deeply it affected her. When you
Speaker 3: were in the process of being bullied, how did you
Speaker 3: cope with that?
Speaker 2: I struggled a lot.
Speaker 1: I had an eating disorder from the time I was twelve,
Speaker 1: and I struggled with that.
Speaker 2: For more than a decade.
Speaker 1: Boy nearly killed me. Like I'm not going to sit
Speaker 1: here and be like, you know it's water. If it
Speaker 1: ducks back and you know it wasn't it sucked. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't wish that on anyone. The fact that I'm still
Speaker 1: alive today is because I had a support network, and
Speaker 1: I had a home that I could go home to
Speaker 1: that was safe and that supported me, and that I
Speaker 1: knew that I was going to be loved because of
Speaker 1: who I am and not because of who I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I found so much comfort in my animals, horses.
Speaker 2: I truly think horses, say.
Speaker 3: Even the spawn of Satan, more than anything.
Speaker 1: I still have that pony my dad liked threat to
Speaker 1: send her to the glue factory so many times, Marley.
Speaker 1: And she's twenty now and she's she chases people with
Speaker 1: her teeth bed and she has like is thrown off
Speaker 1: champion horse riders. And I love her more like that's
Speaker 1: my biological child. I love her so much because I
Speaker 1: actually think she's a lot like me. Because and I
Speaker 1: think she's I actually think she's really cool because she's
Speaker 1: not gonna let people walk all over her. You have
Speaker 1: to respect her and you have to see her as
Speaker 1: an equal. And if you don't see that she's going
Speaker 1: to tell you offer it, and I think that more
Speaker 1: women need to do that. So I think she's a
Speaker 1: really cool, powerful independent woman, and I think more women
Speaker 1: need to be like mum.
Speaker 2: But yeah, my ponies, my parents. So did you grow
Speaker 2: up rural? So did I grew up in Geelong?
Speaker 1: I grew up everywhere, So I've lived in like eighteen houses.
Speaker 1: I think, like' just we've been everywhere. I grew up
Speaker 1: mostly in the city in the suburbs until I was twelve,
Speaker 1: and then my mental health got so bad. My grandparents
Speaker 1: have always lived in the country and we'd always go there,
Speaker 1: and my mental health got so bad when I was
Speaker 1: twelve that my parents figured out that the only thing
Speaker 1: that would keep me alive was going to the country
Speaker 1: and having horses and being around animals all the time.
Speaker 1: So they picked up their whole life and we moved
Speaker 1: to the Ara Valley and I can truly say that
Speaker 1: that move changed my life. And to this day, when
Speaker 1: the world gets too much, I just go out and
Speaker 1: I sit with my horses. My mum's an equine therapist,
Speaker 1: and I've seen like the change, Like I never had
Speaker 1: an official equine therapy, but horses have always been my therapy.
Speaker 2: Horses are incredible.
Speaker 1: They if you don't know what you're feeling, or you're
Speaker 1: struggling to tept for what you're feeling, they'll tell you
Speaker 1: I did it once at it's incredible at.
Speaker 3: A wellness retreat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that.
Speaker 3: The they're all seeing capacity is it's incredible.
Speaker 2: They're they're so phenomenal.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, my horses have always have always, always always
Speaker 1: been the most important thing to me. Creativity has also
Speaker 1: always been really big, right, creating like art in any capacity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Just being able to get out of my head and
Speaker 1: into my body has always kind of been how I've
Speaker 1: been able to move away from all of it.
Speaker 3: Well, and all of these elements I see in Quinnie,
Speaker 3: which of.
Speaker 2: Course was that's her, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that your character in Heartbreak Eye that really.
Speaker 2: Leapt out to people. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there are a lot of people who would
Speaker 3: like to thank you for that, I think, because everything
Speaker 3: seems apparent in retrospect, but there's always a first, Yeah,
Speaker 3: And to be in that space and in Australia in
Speaker 3: that space, and relatively not a novice in acting, but
Speaker 3: this was like.
Speaker 2: A huge it was my first big job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a huge job too.
Speaker 2: How did you feel?
Speaker 3: So we know we now know how that story's played
Speaker 3: out in terms of the world and the success of it,
Speaker 3: But how did you feel going in to tell the
Speaker 3: story of Quinnie? And I gather it was quite collaborative
Speaker 3: with the producers and the writers whatever, But how did
Speaker 3: you feel going in to tell this story that had
Speaker 3: never been told.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because in some ways it's incredibly exciting to
Speaker 1: be able to be like the first autistic actress in
Speaker 1: Australia and to be play such an important role, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't have anyone growing up that I could look to,
Speaker 1: and I think that's a really large reason why I
Speaker 1: struggled and why the other kids around me struggled to
Speaker 1: understand me, because there was no one that any of
Speaker 1: us could look to and go, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's like Chloe. So now that.
Speaker 1: Kids have someone that they can look to in Quinnie
Speaker 1: and in so many other characters that are now starting
Speaker 1: has come up as well.
Speaker 2: It's so important. It's going to say lives.
Speaker 1: But on the other hands, Heartbreak High came out in
Speaker 1: what twenty three?
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah is post COVID, Yeah, post COVID.
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous that it took us that long to get
Speaker 1: an autistic character that was showcasing herself in that way.
Speaker 1: That's wish, that's not something to be celebrated. That's abhorrent
Speaker 1: that it.
Speaker 2: Took that long. Do you think it took that long?
Speaker 2: I think that's such a multifaceted question, but.
Speaker 1: In like as the most basic answer, I don't know, because.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't have taken that long.
Speaker 1: If we want to look deeper, our world values a
Speaker 1: very very specific idea of normality, and that isn't just
Speaker 1: true for neuroda virgens. That's true for gender, it's true
Speaker 1: for sexual orientation. It's true for race, it was true
Speaker 1: true cultus, for women, it's like it's it is true
Speaker 1: in every every single facet of the word. We value
Speaker 1: a very very specific idea of being a person, and
Speaker 1: so anyone that is outside of that box is still
Speaker 1: considered revolutionary and is still considered taboo.
Speaker 2: Because it's almost like.
Speaker 3: The entertainment job was to present normal. But as the
Speaker 3: world has changed and we realize that that definition is
Speaker 3: so small now, it had to be a revolutionary act
Speaker 3: to start to say, let's show some of what's not
Speaker 3: normal and So when you were first contacted about the role,
Speaker 3: was it a straight up audition or were you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the Heartbreak Hay audition was pretty standard in
Speaker 1: terms of it was it was actually an open casting call,
Speaker 1: so I believe that anyone in Australia could audition for it.
Speaker 3: But what were you doing at that point that led them?
Speaker 1: Wasn't because of no So I so I got sent
Speaker 1: the audition brief from my ma and there was three
Speaker 1: characters that they were auditioning for at the time, and
Speaker 1: Quinnie was one of them. And she I believe the
Speaker 1: time it was written that she was possibly NEURROTI virgin.
Speaker 2: It wasn't set in stone from memory, it was like
Speaker 2: possibly ne're at.
Speaker 1: A virgin neurota vigent coded sort of thing. So I
Speaker 1: saw that audition and I was my whole thing at
Speaker 1: the time was competitive horse riding, so I was competing
Speaker 1: in rodeos and stuff like that, and I was actually
Speaker 1: when I got the audition, I was in Bonnie Doom
Speaker 1: competing and I saw this audition.
Speaker 2: And usually if an audition.
Speaker 1: Comes through and I'm in the middle of competing for
Speaker 1: the weekends, I'll kind of go it's not God's timing.
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to do it, you know, put it
Speaker 1: to one, put it to the side. I'm focusing on
Speaker 1: this now. This came through and I could just tell
Speaker 1: so deeply that this was my job. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is my character. I like, that's my job. And
Speaker 1: there's actually a video somewhere of me competing and you
Speaker 1: can see my lips moving and it's me practicing my
Speaker 1: script in the middle of my run. And I get
Speaker 1: off and I get my makeup on and everything, and
Speaker 1: I go when I do my audition, and I messaged
Speaker 1: my agent like an hour later, I'm like, have you
Speaker 1: heard back yet? And he's like, that's not how this works.
Speaker 1: You know, that's not how this works. But I was
Speaker 1: messaging him every single day.
Speaker 2: How did the audition go? Then, so you must have
Speaker 2: felt good. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I felt like I did good.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I just want this so bad.
Speaker 1: I wanted it so so bad. And then I don't remember.
Speaker 1: It felt like years, but I'm not I think it
Speaker 1: was probably a week or so later that I got
Speaker 1: contacted or that he got contacted by the casting team
Speaker 1: asking me to do a second audition, and then a
Speaker 1: little bit after that, they asked me to do an
Speaker 1: audition in front of the producers and the casting team,
Speaker 1: and then we went into chemistry reads. And so chemistry
Speaker 1: reads are where you do auditions with actors that are
Speaker 1: auditioning for characters that you're going to be playing alongside
Speaker 1: to see how well you know how good your chemistry is.
Speaker 1: I was doing came reads like every single day, and.
Speaker 3: That's interesting, yeah, because as an actor auditioning for things,
Speaker 3: you're always looking for the little clues that you know
Speaker 3: to see how you're.
Speaker 1: Going a lot, yes, But with that being said, like
Speaker 1: I was doing camorriads every single day with different different
Speaker 1: actors for other roles, right, And so my whole family
Speaker 1: and my team were like, like, you are so close
Speaker 1: to this, and I was like, I'm not listening. I
Speaker 1: don't want to hear it because if I don't get this,
Speaker 1: I don't want.
Speaker 2: To be disappointed.
Speaker 1: Because at this point, there had been so many jobs
Speaker 1: that I had. I was like, it was down to
Speaker 1: me and one other person and I didn't get it.
Speaker 1: And there was also a couple of jobs that I
Speaker 1: had and then they found out that I was autistic
Speaker 1: and I lost the job.
Speaker 3: Now I've heard you, I've heard you mention this before once.
Speaker 3: How does that look like? How does that work? And
Speaker 3: how do they how do they find out that you're
Speaker 3: autistic in a way that it affects them to the
Speaker 3: negative of the job that when they've met you and cast.
Speaker 2: You the correct problem correct.
Speaker 1: That's the entire issue that and media has a lot
Speaker 1: of foothold in this. The way that autism has been
Speaker 1: presented historically in media is extremely negative. When you hear
Speaker 1: about autism, it's either from the lens of Sheldon Cooper
Speaker 1: or what's eating Gilbert Grape or rain men. We see
Speaker 1: very stereotype iadias of autism when it's presented to us
Speaker 1: in fiction, and when we hear about autism and the news,
Speaker 1: it's usually he's a criminal who's done something really bad
Speaker 1: and by the way, we've just found out he's autistic,
Speaker 1: and it's made out that the reason why they did
Speaker 1: something evil is because they're autistic, when most of the
Speaker 1: time it mean all the time it had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the fact. They're just going to use that
Speaker 1: because it's a story. It's very rare that we ever
Speaker 1: hear of autistic people in the media, but so.
Speaker 3: When they these producers for these roles that you were
Speaker 3: offered and then were retracted.
Speaker 2: So the idea is that they hear autism. Goody as
Speaker 2: you know Chloe's autistic.
Speaker 1: Well, I told so the role that I lost specifically,
Speaker 1: I think it was over a decade ago now that
Speaker 1: this specific incident happens.
Speaker 3: So time is important in these conversations, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely I don't.
Speaker 1: I think discrimination laws would stop that from happening.
Speaker 2: Now. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have heard of people in the industry I'm I
Speaker 1: work with MAAA there, I'm on the disability board for that,
Speaker 1: and I have heard of some really horrific stories of
Speaker 1: disabled people losing jobs because of being disabled or being
Speaker 1: discriminated against because of being disabled.
Speaker 2: It still happens every single day.
Speaker 1: But with this specific incident, it was over a decade ago,
Speaker 1: and I think I told them that I was autistic.
Speaker 2: After they told me.
Speaker 1: That I had the job, and they sent me an
Speaker 1: email and said, hey, we've decided to change paths. We're
Speaker 1: going down a different route. They didn't tell me that
Speaker 1: I didn't get the job because I'm autistics, but there
Speaker 1: was no new information for them other than me being
Speaker 1: artistic when I lost the job.
Speaker 3: Well, this is an interesting thing because because of your
Speaker 3: advocacy and your openness, and there's so much education to
Speaker 3: be done. Still, even though there's such a plethora of
Speaker 3: neurodivergent people and people neurodivergence amongst people that people love
Speaker 3: and children and cousins and brothers and whatever, that it
Speaker 3: still seems a rarity. It's not a rarity anymore. But
Speaker 3: in your body of work. And so we've talked about
Speaker 3: Quinnie for instance, do you, as an actor, do you
Speaker 3: want to play autistic characters or do you want to
Speaker 3: play characters?
Speaker 2: I want to play characters.
Speaker 1: I think that having autistic people playing onistic people is
Speaker 1: absolutely vital. I do not think anyone that is not
Speaker 1: autistic should ever play an autistic person. With that being said,
Speaker 1: I don't think that autistic actors should only be playing
Speaker 1: autistic people, especially because I am quite positive that the
Speaker 1: majority of the industry is neurodivergent. So you're not going
Speaker 1: to have any characters atist. But I'm an actor. My
Speaker 1: job is to play pretend. I've been playing pretended being
Speaker 1: neurotypical very very well for a very very long time.
Speaker 1: Autistic characters need to be played by autistic people. But
Speaker 1: when it comes to opening that up, I'm not an
Speaker 1: autistic actor. I'm an actor and I also happen to
Speaker 1: be autistic, and I think that's you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: played characters where I'm a drug addict. I'm not a
Speaker 1: drug addict. I've played characters where you know that I'm like,
Speaker 1: really nasty. I don't think I'm really nasty. Like I
Speaker 1: you know, my job is to play pretend and there's
Speaker 1: there's no limits to what playing pretend is. But when
Speaker 1: we're talking about minority casting, and that's when it comes
Speaker 1: to race, when it comes to disability, specifically, when it
Speaker 1: comes to trans characters, there are certain roles that only
Speaker 1: certain people can play, and a lot of it because
Speaker 1: of where the industry is at the moment. One in
Speaker 1: five Australians are disabled. When we look at screen, one
Speaker 1: in five characters are not disabled. That's an issue when
Speaker 1: we're watching Neighbors or Home and Away or Heartbreak High
Speaker 1: or like you know, enter your movie or TV show here.
Speaker 1: So much of the time, if you're seeing a disabled character,
Speaker 1: their entire storyline is that they're disabled.
Speaker 2: And I love Quinnie.
Speaker 1: I think She's done incredible things for the community, but
Speaker 1: her whole storyline is that she's autistic. We need to
Speaker 1: move away from that. She was incredible and I love
Speaker 1: her like Quinny is so important to me, but her
Speaker 1: job was to be the autistic character and she did
Speaker 1: incredible it being that, we now need to go a
Speaker 1: step more and we now need to have characters that
Speaker 1: just so happened to be disabled and it has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with them. We need to move away from
Speaker 1: let's cast someone disabled so we can have a disabled
Speaker 1: storyline and move on to we need to cast a
Speaker 1: villain and they happen to be an amputee.
Speaker 3: We need to.
Speaker 2: Cast and they happen to be in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: We need to now have what Bridgington did with Race
Speaker 1: exactly and also the most recent season of Bridging and
Speaker 1: also did really well when it comes to disability casting.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the maids is an amputee. Awesome,
Speaker 1: and we never hear about She never brings it up,
Speaker 1: No one else ever brings it up. She just happens
Speaker 1: to be an amputee. There's there's two people in Bridging
Speaker 1: and that are using sign language and it's never brought
Speaker 1: up it just so happens to be there. We need
Speaker 1: to have so much more of that so that when
Speaker 1: kids are watching media, it's just an intrinsic part of
Speaker 1: their lives, the same way that it is in the
Speaker 1: real world.
Speaker 3: So, given the nature of your advocacy and how alive
Speaker 3: that is, do you sometimes feel that you have you
Speaker 3: bear the responsibility for so many people behind you, or
Speaker 3: they're be coming through the.
Speaker 2: Door with you.
Speaker 1: I think I am very privileged to be in the
Speaker 1: body that I'm in because for me, despite the fact
Speaker 1: that i was bullied and not treated kindly, because I'm autistic,
Speaker 1: because I appear to be able bodied, and because I'm white,
Speaker 1: and because I'm conventionally attractive, it is much easier for
Speaker 1: people to listen to me than it would be to
Speaker 1: listen to someone else.
Speaker 2: And because of that, and also, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I know that I'm good at my job, and
Speaker 1: I know that I'm good at speaking, and I know
Speaker 1: that I'm good at Pixie.
Speaker 2: I know that all of that is there too. But because.
Speaker 1: Of the body that I'm in and the position that
Speaker 1: I'm in and the privilege that i have, I'm able
Speaker 1: to be where I am. And I think it's very
Speaker 1: very important that we don't stop there. Quinnie was incredible
Speaker 1: for who she is, but Quinnie was only one representation
Speaker 1: of autism, and she was an extremely palatable version of autism.
Speaker 1: She was very manic, pixie dream girl autism. She was
Speaker 1: very cute, and she was very quirky, and she wasn't
Speaker 1: controversial and she was very sweet.
Speaker 2: And that's palatable.
Speaker 1: So it's an easy digestible way for people to go, Okay, I.
Speaker 2: Can accept autism.
Speaker 1: We now need to leave her and we need to
Speaker 1: move away from that, and we need to offer those
Speaker 1: positions to black autistic people and non speaking autistic peace
Speaker 1: people and autistic people that live in bodies and present
Speaker 1: differently to the way that I do. And in some
Speaker 1: ways that is my responsibility, but it's also the responsibility
Speaker 1: more so for the industry and for key players in
Speaker 1: the game. My job is to go, you've given me
Speaker 1: these jobs. I need you to open these jobs up
Speaker 1: to other people. And that's why I'm in politics and
Speaker 1: that's why I'm in the Actors' Union to make sure
Speaker 1: that more people can have these opportunities, because it can't
Speaker 1: just stay with me.
Speaker 3: And do you ever feel like some days when because
Speaker 3: you have a finite amount of energy that there's not
Speaker 3: enough energy for that, or you wish you didn't have
Speaker 3: to exchange your energy on that.
Speaker 1: It's not my job to advocate for everyone all the time.
Speaker 1: And that's something that I have to continue to remind
Speaker 1: myself because I get told by a lot of people
Speaker 1: that I need to have this energy and this passion twenty.
Speaker 2: Four seven as no one can do that. It is
Speaker 2: not up to me.
Speaker 1: And I get told a lot often by the autistic
Speaker 1: community that I'm not doing enough, oh.
Speaker 2: Really quite often.
Speaker 1: And I understand whether that's a huge community, absolutely, And
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing, Like I absolutely understand where that
Speaker 1: frustration comes from. I one, one hundred percent understand why
Speaker 1: they are frustrated. But it is not up to me alone.
Speaker 2: And there are so many autistic people out there now.
Speaker 1: Like when I started blogging, I didn't see anyone else
Speaker 1: that was talking about it. Now, if you go to
Speaker 1: a bookshop, there are so many books made for autistic
Speaker 1: people by autistic people.
Speaker 2: There are a lot more than just me. Now, there
Speaker 2: are significantly more than just me. Now.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be up to me, and it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: up to me alone, and it also doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be exactly and that's what community is. Community is if
Speaker 1: I need to take a break, someone else is going
Speaker 1: to step up and we need to That's how we
Speaker 1: need to be in all facets of society that I
Speaker 1: if I need to step down because if I'm burnt out,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to help anyone. No, And I
Speaker 1: think the biggest thing when it comes to advocacy is
Speaker 1: we have to put we have to put ourselves first.
Speaker 1: And you also have to navigate yourself absolutely because I
Speaker 1: can't help people if I'm not helping myself, Like I
Speaker 1: have to be able to make sure that my mental
Speaker 1: health is safe because if I am broken down and
Speaker 1: burnt out, I can't help anyone. And so me pushing
Speaker 1: myself day in and day out and getting burnt out
Speaker 1: and getting depressed and not able to function doesn't help anyone.
Speaker 2: So if I step down, more step up.
Speaker 3: And also you have to live your life to its fullest,
Speaker 3: and that means not necessarily taking on everyone else's challenges
Speaker 3: because that's you'll think like the Titanic exactly. But you
Speaker 3: also have a life to live of family and friends
Speaker 3: and love and yeah, after this short break, he reveals
Speaker 3: that she was advised by industry members to stop talking
Speaker 3: about autism because you are an actor, and actors are
Speaker 3: often comparative with each other the nature of it, who's
Speaker 3: getting work, who's whatever, who's got the most lines, who's
Speaker 3: the da da dada. Because you require a certain amount
Speaker 3: of ego to be an actor, and at the same
Speaker 3: time you have to manage that ego so it doesn't
Speaker 3: gobble you up. So when you started to get all
Speaker 3: this attention for Quinnie, for instance, that no one really
Speaker 3: could have anticipated, maybe you knew it absolutely not.
Speaker 2: How was that?
Speaker 3: And I mean the whole cast was riding the wave
Speaker 3: as well, deservedly so, But how was that for you
Speaker 3: on an individual basis, given that you came from a
Speaker 3: background where you'd been persecuted for being different before. Was
Speaker 3: there any elements of that that you were like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I have to proceed a bit cautiously here, or do
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: People told me to proceed cautiously. I had people that
Speaker 1: were very key players in the industry told me that
Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to speak up anymore, and for a
Speaker 1: really long time it terrified me. I was told by
Speaker 1: people that because I was told by people that I
Speaker 1: can't bite the hands that feeds me. And I've been
Speaker 1: told that a lot.
Speaker 3: And in what way would you have been barding the
Speaker 3: hand I am in the general industry?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: And if journalists are going to speak negatively about autism
Speaker 1: in articles that feature me, if people are going to
Speaker 1: be doing really evil things in the industry, I'm not
Speaker 1: allowed to call them out on that.
Speaker 3: You know why. That's like that saying, never pick a
Speaker 3: fart with some one who buys ink by the barrel. Yes,
Speaker 3: so they've got you don't want to antagonize the people
Speaker 3: who hold the power.
Speaker 2: See, And I've been told that a lot.
Speaker 1: I have been told by so many people that now
Speaker 1: that I'm in the industry, I can't criticize the industry.
Speaker 1: I think, more so than ever, I need to criticize
Speaker 1: the industry because I'm here, and I think that's true
Speaker 1: for anyone. I think you know, have look at all
Speaker 1: of the stuff that's happening with the Epsteine files and
Speaker 1: how many major musicians and labels and managers are in it.
Speaker 2: We have to call people out.
Speaker 1: If you're not calling people out, you're being complicit in it.
Speaker 2: And that it's just as bad.
Speaker 1: I was told about for a really long time that
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to and that scared me so much
Speaker 1: because I thought that I had to choose between my
Speaker 1: career and my advocacy. I had to choose between my
Speaker 1: ethics and my values and my dreams.
Speaker 2: That's not the case.
Speaker 1: You have to be strong in your ethics regardless of
Speaker 1: what you're doing. And I don't want to be in
Speaker 1: this industry if I have to forfeit my morals and
Speaker 1: my values just to get to where I want to go.
Speaker 3: Was there a moment where, because there was so much
Speaker 3: spotlight on you, and because like I said, you were
Speaker 3: such a breakout star on the show amongst many stars
Speaker 3: like they're great, great work on that show, did you
Speaker 3: ever feel this is too much? Or did people around
Speaker 3: you think this is too much? Were you ever aware
Speaker 3: that there was that slight competition or oh, Chloe's getting
Speaker 3: something again or I don't.
Speaker 1: Think so, and again, like I just don't like I
Speaker 1: see my co stars getting incredible roles and there's no
Speaker 1: part of me that goes, oh, that should have been mine.
Speaker 2: I want to celebrate.
Speaker 1: Them, I think, particularly like when I look at other
Speaker 1: young women in this industry, I just want to I
Speaker 1: want to lift them up.
Speaker 2: I don't think this industry can survive if we're tearing
Speaker 2: each other down. And that's true for everything.
Speaker 3: It's true, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. And it
Speaker 1: happens a lot more than what you would want it to.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that we should also do it.
Speaker 1: Like we need to be the change that we want
Speaker 1: to see, and like when it comes to heartbreak, everyone
Speaker 1: is so like we all have so much love for
Speaker 1: each other that when we see each other doing well,
Speaker 1: we genuinely love that, Like we genuinely want to see
Speaker 1: each other doing well, Like your success is not an
Speaker 1: indicator of my own success, you know.
Speaker 2: And also it's very much a collective. You raise one,
Speaker 2: you raise everyone, you know.
Speaker 3: The rising tide. Okay, let me ask you this thing.
Speaker 3: Given that, how is how is the prospect of it ending?
Speaker 3: Or how is it ending?
Speaker 2: How does that feel?
Speaker 1: It's it's very bittersweet, you know, Like we were saying,
Speaker 1: it was my first big job.
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for like five years. I think.
Speaker 1: When I got heartbreak. The whole audition process was over zoom.
Speaker 1: We didn't meet until we all moved up to Sydney
Speaker 1: to stuff really yeah, which was very rare, but it's
Speaker 1: because it was all dreams. We didn't meet until we
Speaker 1: all had our roles, so none of.
Speaker 2: Us met anyone.
Speaker 1: I didn't meet the other actors, I didn't meet the producers,
Speaker 1: I didn't meet the directors. I didn't meet anyone until
Speaker 1: we had all moved up and were living there. Oh
Speaker 1: to start, and so I remember being terrified, Like I
Speaker 1: was at the airport with my parents and I was
Speaker 1: bowling my eyes out. I had to get home schooled
Speaker 1: in the eight because of how bad the bullying was.
Speaker 1: I'm terrified of people my age. To this day, I'm
Speaker 1: terrified of groups of people my age. And I went,
Speaker 1: I can't do this. I'm about to live with twelve
Speaker 1: people my age and they're all actors. That means they're
Speaker 1: going to be cool, and they're going to be really talented,
Speaker 1: and they're probably all going to be mean. I'm going
Speaker 1: to get bullied. It's going to be like school again.
Speaker 1: But I already signed the contract to back out, and
Speaker 1: so I went there and I remember being so so scared,
Speaker 1: and we met everyone and immediately I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: these people and my family and they're all weirdos, Like they're.
Speaker 2: All just like me, and so I think that kind of.
Speaker 1: Stay throughout the whole time, and so finishing it was
Speaker 1: very bittersweet because it was the first group of people
Speaker 1: that I'd ever felt safe to be myself around, and
Speaker 1: it was our first big job. And I remember like
Speaker 1: during season one, we would go out and we'd see
Speaker 1: other TV shows that had like signs on buses and
Speaker 1: we were like.
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, imagine if that's us.
Speaker 1: One day we're like, no, don't even say that, Like
Speaker 1: that's dreaming too big. Like we had no idea how
Speaker 1: big this show was going to go. Like we've grown
Speaker 1: in every single way you can grow together and have
Speaker 1: seen each other through everything. So finishing that show, like
Speaker 1: filming our last scene. I will never forget that feeling
Speaker 1: of finishing our last scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The beautiful thing is.
Speaker 1: The Australian industry is quite small, and so I know
Speaker 1: that we'll all be together in some capacity. It'll never
Speaker 1: be like it is now, And everyone tells us how
Speaker 1: special it is to have what we have and how
Speaker 1: it is so rare.
Speaker 3: It's interesting though that you realize that, because you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes you're in a period where that will only happen once,
Speaker 3: but because you're in it, yeah, you don't recognize it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but really special things, I think you know when they're happening.
Speaker 2: I agree there.
Speaker 3: And so on the last day, who was the what
Speaker 3: set you are?
Speaker 1: So we we all got to film our last scene together.
Speaker 1: They made sure that the last scene of the whole
Speaker 1: shoot was a scene that all of us were in together,
Speaker 1: which was really beautiful. And it was really really late,
Speaker 1: like it was past midnight, and we were doing our
Speaker 1: last setup for this scene and we didn't know how
Speaker 1: many takes it would take, because you don't know if
Speaker 1: it's going to be a one hit wonder if it's
Speaker 1: going to take twenty times to do this take. And
Speaker 1: so wh knew it was a last set up, meaning
Speaker 1: we knew it was going to be really soon that
Speaker 1: it was finishing. And I remember we were standing there
Speaker 1: and we were all like hugging and holding hands and stuff,
Speaker 1: just before the camera's called action and we were all
Speaker 1: like fighting back tears, like the poor makeup team were
Speaker 1: like struggling.
Speaker 3: Of course, the touch us.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then I remember they did it a
Speaker 1: few times, and every single time they would call cut,
Speaker 1: Like the tension was so high because we were all
Speaker 1: just standing there, just tense, going are they going to
Speaker 1: say it? Are they going to say it? And the
Speaker 1: last time we did it and they go, that's a
Speaker 1: series wrap. Yeah, a series wrap on heart break high.
Speaker 1: We all burst into tears. It was just yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna forget that. And then we had to
Speaker 1: We got home to our hotel, we had like three
Speaker 1: hours of sleep and then we had to go to
Speaker 1: Actor Awards in Queensland the next morning. It was just
Speaker 1: it was hectic, but yeah, it was really beautiful. I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that, and like, I'm always going to have
Speaker 1: those people in my life.
Speaker 2: Well, and they're going to have you in their lives.
Speaker 3: Ye, because you're not going anywhere. I hope you know
Speaker 3: noway that I don't think you can be seen and
Speaker 3: now that you're a married lady.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible, isn't it. Thanks.
Speaker 3: I mean I find it incredible because I find the
Speaker 3: story of your first date incredible. I find that what
Speaker 3: it was on the apps you met Dylan who's now
Speaker 3: your husband on the apps.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was during COVID and I will put on
Speaker 1: the record, I have never been a Tinder person. I
Speaker 1: was never I was never someone that was on dating
Speaker 1: apps because I didn't care for men very much.
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to date.
Speaker 1: And me and my sister both were like, let's just
Speaker 1: do it for a laugh, like we're bored, we can't
Speaker 1: leave the house. And then I think I met Dylan
Speaker 1: on like the first day, and we started talking. I went, ah,
Speaker 1: damn it, like I actually really like this one that
Speaker 1: wasn't meant to happen.
Speaker 3: And what did you see.
Speaker 2: On your profile?
Speaker 3: Like what did you put?
Speaker 4: My God?
Speaker 2: But I think I actually don't remember what it was.
Speaker 3: I think animals.
Speaker 1: I think one of the first pictures was a photo
Speaker 1: of me at a festival, I think, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what Dylan mentioned. I'm like looking over him, now,
Speaker 1: give me any any details. I think it was a picture.
Speaker 2: What was it? Come over here for a sec.
Speaker 3: You will know, you will know, you will remember all
Speaker 3: too vividly. Come talking to these he.
Speaker 2: Come, because there's no way you don't remember.
Speaker 4: No, that was definitely one of them. Clothes wearing a
Speaker 4: she had like this rainbow, colorful, glitterly like festival fit
Speaker 4: on right, huge smile. And then in another photos I
Speaker 4: thought she was with a family member and that was that.
Speaker 4: Again there was smiling, but everyone's just got the biggest smile.
Speaker 3: And what did she said anything about herself? Or were
Speaker 3: you just captured by the Rave Girl festival round?
Speaker 2: Exactly what you said? But she was funny, Dylan, bye bye?
Speaker 3: And then so you knew, which.
Speaker 2: Is that's incredible.
Speaker 1: You know what's even crazier is I this is so embarrassing.
Speaker 1: This is like year seven love story. But we're married now,
Speaker 1: so it's okay. I think we said I love you
Speaker 1: after day three? Like it like it, like said it
Speaker 1: for Dylan?
Speaker 2: Did he yeah?
Speaker 3: And we could have blurted it out.
Speaker 2: I could have didn't, but I didn't. He sent it
Speaker 2: over a voice note on Instagram?
Speaker 3: And wait did he mean yeah?
Speaker 1: Because it was a voice like you intentionally press that
Speaker 1: button and.
Speaker 2: Then intentionally send it. I'm not sure if that's brave
Speaker 2: or chicken to do it that way?
Speaker 3: Will you being brave or scared?
Speaker 4: I don't think it came out the way that I
Speaker 4: intended it to. It wasn't meant to be like I
Speaker 4: love you. It's like I love.
Speaker 3: You and a right yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 3: yeah yeah no, but that's yeah.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is like if you think
Speaker 1: that's crazy, what's even more like this is how I've
Speaker 1: never been the sort of person that was going to
Speaker 1: date just to date.
Speaker 2: That's always been to me, silly.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to open up my heart to someone
Speaker 1: knowing that I'm not going to be with them forever.
Speaker 1: That's always been a concept that just didn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me. Like, I've always been the sort of person
Speaker 1: that like, if i'm if i'm dating, my intention is
Speaker 1: to be with you forever, but how do you know
Speaker 1: to well, I'm also not like I'm also this, which
Speaker 1: sounds ridiculous because of how we met and how we
Speaker 1: started talking.
Speaker 2: But I've also never been the sort of person.
Speaker 1: That's like, oh, like I I find you attractive, let's
Speaker 1: date and see where it goes. Like I want to
Speaker 1: be your friend for like ages first, like I want
Speaker 1: to get to know you. I'm not going to commit
Speaker 1: to you until I'm like this is someone that I
Speaker 1: genuinely really love spending time with.
Speaker 2: Right, And yet Dylan and I started dating like immediately,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I think when you know you
Speaker 2: know what.
Speaker 3: Was it about Dylan that one of.
Speaker 2: The first things.
Speaker 1: So we started dating, oh, started talking and pretty much
Speaker 1: became exclusive during COVID when Dill was in Melbourne, so
Speaker 1: like the Ring of Steel was happening, so there was
Speaker 1: literal army bases stopping people from living and I was
Speaker 1: in the country, so there was no way of us meeting.
Speaker 1: And so our first few dates were over zoom and
Speaker 1: the first date that we did was a like a
Speaker 1: game night, like we both like zoomed each other and
Speaker 1: then like shared our screens I think, and did like
Speaker 1: you know, like board games on.
Speaker 2: The internet, right, And I.
Speaker 1: Just felt so safe with him, Like I never felt pressured,
Speaker 1: I never felt scared, Like men have always been really
Speaker 1: scary to me. I'd never felt scared by him, and
Speaker 1: I've always I've always felt really nervous about sharing.
Speaker 2: The whole parts of myself.
Speaker 1: I've always had a mask on myself when I meet
Speaker 1: new people, I've put the mask on that I think
Speaker 1: they want to see. And bit by bit I kind
Speaker 1: of dropped that mask around him. And I think one
Speaker 1: of the first like.
Speaker 3: What was the mask that you thought he wanted to say?
Speaker 2: I think I was just I was trying to be.
Speaker 1: In hindsight, I shouldn't have done this, and I very
Speaker 1: much tell women to not do this, but I was.
Speaker 1: I was very quiet, and I was very polite, and
Speaker 1: I was very like, I don't want I don't want
Speaker 1: to make a scene or anything like that.
Speaker 2: And I remember, like one of the first kind of like.
Speaker 1: Autismy bits of myself I dropped was that I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with Titanic. And so the next date night that Dill
Speaker 1: planned was a quiz that was like full Titanic theme,
Speaker 1: and he dressed up for it. I remember going, OK,
Speaker 1: this is a good one.
Speaker 3: What was he He wasn't the Iceberg?
Speaker 2: No, he just had like that like he had he
Speaker 2: was wearing clothing from that time period, and that was.
Speaker 3: How did he do that?
Speaker 1: He he had this whole PowerPoint show, like this whole
Speaker 1: PowerPoint presentation and did like a.
Speaker 2: Full like quiz.
Speaker 1: And like He's just always shown me that the parts
Speaker 1: of myself that I thought that other people didn't want
Speaker 1: to see or that I thought other people would find
Speaker 1: cringey are the parts that he loves the most. And
Speaker 1: I think that's so important in a partner. Is everything absolutely,
Speaker 1: and like especially when you're autistic.
Speaker 3: What bits, by the way, did you think, was there
Speaker 3: like a moment where you went, Oh, this is it,
Speaker 3: I've done it, I've cooked it.
Speaker 1: They were there a lot of bits that I don't
Speaker 1: remember specifically, do you know what? And I think, I
Speaker 1: think this is actually quite showcasing of the sort of
Speaker 1: person that he is. But I actually don't remember specifically
Speaker 1: any bits that I went, oh, my.
Speaker 2: God, I've cooked it.
Speaker 1: But I remember my reaction to feeling like I've cooked sea.
Speaker 1: And every single time I apologize for being a burden,
Speaker 1: he wouldout fail before I could even finish the sentence
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I'm so sorry, I'm such a burden. He
Speaker 1: would say, You're not a burden, You're a privilege. And
Speaker 1: he would say that every single time, to the point
Speaker 1: where I don't feel like a burden anymore. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what a good relationship is supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, your wedding was so exquisite and behind the scenes
Speaker 3: glimpse behind the scenes that Bray who's our producer of
Speaker 3: this pod, was at your wedding and she did a
Speaker 3: story for Marie Claire.
Speaker 2: It was so beautiful. It was the most perfect wedding of.
Speaker 3: Tree family, stunning dress, thank you, handsome groom.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, the embroidery on your dress.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that idea. Thank you, which were phrases
Speaker 3: that were significant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were all Disney quotes from our favorite Disney films,
Speaker 1: because that's one of the first things that we like
Speaker 1: connected over with Disney. But yeah, the whole wedding was
Speaker 1: so lovely. I hate weddings. I hate weddings. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be a guest.
Speaker 2: At your wedding.
Speaker 1: I like, I hate weddings. They're boring, the food is disgusting.
Speaker 1: I'm sat at a table with people I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I have to make small talk for hours, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't enjoy weddings. And then the other thing as
Speaker 1: well that made me not enjoy the idea of weddings
Speaker 1: is when I got engaged, every single woman in my
Speaker 1: life was like, it's the biggest day of your life.
Speaker 2: It's the biggest day of your life.
Speaker 1: And I what I heard when they said that was so,
Speaker 1: you're telling me it's all downhill from here, right?
Speaker 2: I hate that was terrified eyeing.
Speaker 1: And so for our wedding, we we had vegan food
Speaker 1: trucks everywhere. We didn't have a sit I'm vegan, but
Speaker 1: I don't cook, so Dylan's vegan by proxy, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So yeah, we had like vegan food trucks and we
Speaker 1: didn't have a sit down table. We had like like
Speaker 1: bean bags and like tables and stuff people to go
Speaker 1: and stand if they wanted to.
Speaker 2: But it was like just going to do what you wanted.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we had game setup and we had like and
Speaker 1: I just wanted it to feel like a big party
Speaker 1: because the other thing as well that I've always found
Speaker 1: really strange about weddings is how.
Speaker 2: People are like, oh, like, this is you committing to them?
Speaker 1: Like I committed to Dylan the day that I met him.
Speaker 1: It's always been weird to me that it's like you're
Speaker 1: free until you say I do it. That's weird, Like
Speaker 1: I don't think you should get married if that's your idea.
Speaker 3: Of Sure, what it was that you do it in
Speaker 3: front of family and friends as kind of a different
Speaker 3: ring of steel around you. Yeah, I thought it was that.
Speaker 2: See. Even with that, I'm like, there already was a ring.
Speaker 2: Like my dad.
Speaker 1: The day that Dylan came to my house, which we
Speaker 1: weren't even like technically dating. Yeah, the first day that
Speaker 1: Dylan like actually came to my house, it was the
Speaker 1: first time we met, and he came to my house
Speaker 1: because he knew that would be safe for me if
Speaker 1: it was in an environment that I was comfortable.
Speaker 2: With my dad.
Speaker 1: The first thing you said to him is if you
Speaker 1: ever hurt my daughterroom going to take you knee cups
Speaker 1: off you. Like that ring of steel was like solidified
Speaker 1: before we even like technically started dating.
Speaker 2: Like, so even with that, I.
Speaker 1: Was like, I'm like, I'm already committed to this man
Speaker 1: in every single way.
Speaker 2: How did you happen by that?
Speaker 3: How was that? Dylan Surris? Yeah surprising.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I'm already committed to this man in every
Speaker 1: way you can be. Like, So, the way that we
Speaker 1: all saw the wedding was just a big party with
Speaker 1: music that we got to choose, and food that we
Speaker 1: got to choose.
Speaker 2: And everyone and people we got to choose.
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, that's that's what a wedding was
Speaker 1: to us, Like it was just a big party. And
Speaker 1: I found kittens. We found four kittens on our wedding day.
Speaker 2: Oh and we kept all of them.
Speaker 1: Really, I was actually late to the aisle because I
Speaker 1: was on my hands and knees with the under under
Speaker 1: a shed.
Speaker 2: I was on my hands. Did she found them?
Speaker 1: So I heard them my sister, So like we got
Speaker 1: married on a farm, and we stayed on the farm
Speaker 1: the night before and my sister was out doing something
Speaker 1: and saw these kittens. She ran just like Chloe, this kittens.
Speaker 1: And I was like, call the wedding off. We have
Speaker 1: to find these kittens. And so we went out and
Speaker 1: we got married very close to my family home, and
Speaker 1: so I got my mom to run home and I
Speaker 1: was like, get tuna, get a bag of whiskers, get water,
Speaker 1: get a cat carra, like I need the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And so we were all set up prepared to catch
Speaker 1: these kittens, and they just disappeared because obviously there was
Speaker 1: lots of noise and lots of people and they were very,
Speaker 1: very terrified. But I was like determined that these kittens
Speaker 1: were coming home with me. And so I was on
Speaker 1: my hand on the honeymoon. Yes, I was like, these
Speaker 1: are my children, Like congratulations, we've adopted four kids kids.
Speaker 1: And so I was on my hands and knees the
Speaker 1: morning of the wedding under a barn.
Speaker 2: To try and get these kitten a beautiful dress. No,
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: I had my hair and makeup done and everything, and yeah,
Speaker 1: ended up being late because I had to try and
Speaker 1: catch his kittens.
Speaker 2: We didn't catch them.
Speaker 1: But then the day after, I was like, I was
Speaker 1: distraught because I was like, I'd named them, I'd plans
Speaker 1: a whole life with them, and then I couldn't find them.
Speaker 1: And then as we were leaving, all four of them,
Speaker 1: they were four weeks old, all four of them were
Speaker 1: sitting around this little can of tuna, and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, quick, get the kangaries, get everything, and we kept
Speaker 2: all four of them. I've got two of my sisters
Speaker 2: got to wow. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And so I feel like that's just I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I feel like they're like Freyer goddess, Goddess Freya blessed
Speaker 5: our marriage because in ancient mythology, Freyer was a goddess
Speaker 5: who traditionally wipes would be gifted a great kitten on
Speaker 5: their wedding day.
Speaker 3: Was she like Norwegian?
Speaker 2: She's yeah, no, thank you not Norwegian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she and yeah, so we have we have
Speaker 1: two female great kittens, and one of them is called Freya.
Speaker 1: And then our two boys. But yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: Freya blessed our marriage that day. I feel like it
Speaker 1: started well.
Speaker 3: Chloe Hayden, I believe that you are blessed in many ways,
Speaker 3: and some of them have been bestowed upon you, and
Speaker 3: some of them you have gifted unto yourself, which is
Speaker 3: just perfect. Really, I cannot thank you enough for sharing
Speaker 3: yourself with us on No Filter and for your inner
Speaker 3: an external beauty. Thank you, it's just lovely.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and thank you Dylan for your cameo like
Speaker 2: my cameo. Yes, exactly, that was Chloe Hayden.
Speaker 3: Through her work, her advocacy, and her honesty, she's helped
Speaker 3: change the conversation around autism for so many people. But
Speaker 3: as we heard today, being the person everyone looks to
Speaker 3: can come with its own pressure. Her story is a
Speaker 3: reminder that representation matters, but so does allowing people the
Speaker 3: space to simply be themselves, and she is herself. If
Speaker 3: you want to see Chloe in the role that introduced
Speaker 3: her to audiences around the world, you can catch her
Speaker 3: as Quinnie in the third and final season of Heartbreak,
Speaker 3: high streaming on Netflix from March twenty five. Thanks for
Speaker 3: listening to No Filter. The executive producer of No Filter
Speaker 3: is Breed Player. The assistant producer is Coco Levine. Audio
Speaker 3: production by Jacob Brown and video editing by Josh Green.
Speaker 3: This episode was recorded at Session in Progress. I am
Speaker 3: Kate Lanebrook. I will see you next Monday.