WEBVTT - The Doctor Who Turned His Diaries Into A Hit Show 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:15.005 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:17.685 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.765 --> 0:00:18.525 is recorded on. 0:00:19.005 --> 0:00:23.085 I had messages from doctors all around the world saying 0:00:23.165 --> 0:00:25.485 until I read that in your book, I thought that 0:00:25.565 --> 0:00:27.645 I was the first doctor who'd ever cried in the 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:30.565 locker room. But the truth of it is that every 0:00:30.605 --> 0:00:42.445 single doctor pretty much ends up crying in a locker room. 0:00:42.645 --> 0:00:47.285 Hi, I'm kateline Brook. Welcome to No Filter. You know, 0:00:47.965 --> 0:00:50.645 we don't always think of doctors as people, and it's 0:00:50.725 --> 0:00:53.405 not just because so many of them have a God complex. 0:00:54.405 --> 0:00:57.685 It's that we don't often think that they have emotions 0:00:57.805 --> 0:01:02.165 or hard days and the weight of life altering moments 0:01:02.205 --> 0:01:05.165 pressing down on them. And it's probably because when we 0:01:05.245 --> 0:01:08.645 see doctors it's because we're in a time of need ourselves. 0:01:09.685 --> 0:01:13.365 But doctors absorbed situations that would stop most of us 0:01:13.365 --> 0:01:17.205 in our tracks, yet they are expected to keep going 0:01:17.685 --> 0:01:22.165 shift after shift to cope with the intensity of his work. 0:01:22.885 --> 0:01:27.085 My guest today, Adam Kay, started keeping a diary during 0:01:27.165 --> 0:01:30.005 his years as a junior doctor in the NHS in 0:01:30.045 --> 0:01:33.445 the UK, which has a similar healthcare setup to our 0:01:33.445 --> 0:01:40.165 public system here. In it, Adam Kay documented everything the absurd, 0:01:40.805 --> 0:01:44.565 like the elaborate excuses people give for why certain objects 0:01:44.725 --> 0:01:48.845 end up in their bot bots, their heartwarming, like the 0:01:49.045 --> 0:01:54.365 thousands of babies he delivered, and the devastating, the moments 0:01:54.405 --> 0:01:58.645 when outcomes were not what they should have been. But 0:01:58.725 --> 0:02:03.125 after years of exhaustion, relentless double shifts, and a system 0:02:03.125 --> 0:02:06.845 that offered little or no support, Adam reached his breaking point. 0:02:07.125 --> 0:02:11.845 He left medicine completely burned. The diary where he once 0:02:11.925 --> 0:02:16.205 scribbled his unfiltered thoughts became This Is Going to Hurt, 0:02:17.125 --> 0:02:20.525 a book that not only became an unexpected best seller 0:02:21.365 --> 0:02:26.685 but also inspired a TV series starring Ben Wishaw. His 0:02:26.805 --> 0:02:32.245 writing is brutally honest, darkly funny, deeply human, capturing the 0:02:32.325 --> 0:02:35.965 sleepless desperation of someone trying to do right by his 0:02:36.085 --> 0:02:41.205 patients while barely holding his personal life together or barely 0:02:41.325 --> 0:02:44.765 able to keep his eyes open. There's no anesthetic to 0:02:44.885 --> 0:02:49.325 soften the raw truths he lays bare. In my conversation 0:02:49.445 --> 0:02:52.845 with Adam, we talk about why telling the truth about 0:02:52.885 --> 0:02:56.845 the public health system matters, how he turned his career 0:02:56.965 --> 0:02:59.965 as a doctor into one as a best selling writer 0:03:00.085 --> 0:03:04.005 and stand up comedian and what he's learnt along the way. 0:03:04.685 --> 0:03:07.645 Hello doctor, thank you doctor. 0:03:08.725 --> 0:03:10.965 No another could I only use doctor from fans to 0:03:10.965 --> 0:03:13.165 get an upgrade on a plane, and that never works, 0:03:13.165 --> 0:03:14.565 so I can just add on. 0:03:15.365 --> 0:03:18.725 And also that would come with its attendant dangers because 0:03:18.805 --> 0:03:21.165 if you've got an upgrade on the basis that they 0:03:21.205 --> 0:03:25.445 know you're a doctor, oh yeah, when they say send 0:03:25.485 --> 0:03:27.445 out that is there a doctor on board? 0:03:28.805 --> 0:03:32.525 I was having that discussion with my family not long ago. 0:03:33.125 --> 0:03:33.645 What do you do? 0:03:33.725 --> 0:03:36.805 So my route is I just get absolutely hammered the 0:03:36.845 --> 0:03:39.445 second I sit on the plane, so that if anyone 0:03:39.605 --> 0:03:41.325 says is they're a doctor, and I am the only 0:03:41.325 --> 0:03:43.805 person who's done that degree, I can say I'm. 0:03:43.605 --> 0:03:44.605 Technically a doctor. 0:03:44.805 --> 0:03:47.605 I've not worked for fourteen years and I'm nine bloody 0:03:47.645 --> 0:03:48.285 Mary's deep. 0:03:48.445 --> 0:03:50.165 So it's a real role of to die. So I 0:03:50.405 --> 0:03:51.925 leave it up to them at that stage. 0:03:52.165 --> 0:03:55.005 My dad said he was on a an advertise in 0:03:55.045 --> 0:03:57.725 airlines here, so he was on he was on British 0:03:57.765 --> 0:04:00.205 Airways and they were like, is there a doctor. 0:04:00.245 --> 0:04:03.205 He's retired doctor. No one else was like oh no. 0:04:03.725 --> 0:04:06.645 So they said, okay, there's someone that they had like 0:04:06.845 --> 0:04:10.525 a tiny rash or something and who's like, oh, if 0:04:10.525 --> 0:04:12.965 he got like some antihistamines and pyrotal or something. 0:04:13.005 --> 0:04:14.365 They were like, yeah, let's have a look in the box. 0:04:14.365 --> 0:04:16.965 So here's and so he gave them these said okay, Pope, 0:04:16.965 --> 0:04:19.645 your ash goes away, sat back down. They got being 0:04:19.725 --> 0:04:22.125 back in touch with him and gave him like two 0:04:22.485 --> 0:04:23.845 business class flights. 0:04:23.605 --> 0:04:25.325 To anywhere in the world as a thank you. 0:04:25.925 --> 0:04:29.005 And then one of my brothers said that he was 0:04:29.045 --> 0:04:31.725 on a flight on a on a less I won't 0:04:31.805 --> 0:04:35.085 name them because they don't come out on the best leline, 0:04:35.245 --> 0:04:39.885 a budget airline, and there was some absolute, you know, catastrophe, 0:04:39.925 --> 0:04:42.965 and he was doing CPR on a on a patient. 0:04:43.045 --> 0:04:46.045 He was alternating with another adopt who they're doing CPR 0:04:46.085 --> 0:04:48.365 and a patient for like two hours until they could 0:04:48.365 --> 0:04:51.165 found and then at the at the end, they didn't 0:04:51.165 --> 0:04:53.965 even give him a like a free pack of pretzels 0:04:54.045 --> 0:04:56.125 or something, Thanks very much, see you later. 0:04:57.845 --> 0:05:01.565 You know, that is where you are reminded that medicine 0:05:01.645 --> 0:05:02.365 is a calling. 0:05:02.885 --> 0:05:05.325 It's a calling. You're not doing it. You're not doing 0:05:05.325 --> 0:05:06.325 it for the pretzels. 0:05:06.765 --> 0:05:08.965 No, you're not doing it for the pretzels, not even 0:05:09.005 --> 0:05:12.005 for the chocolate covered ones or the peanut butter filled ones. 0:05:12.605 --> 0:05:16.845 But the reason that you have joined us today it 0:05:16.925 --> 0:05:22.005 is because your body of work is so unusual. This 0:05:22.165 --> 0:05:25.285 is going to hurt, not this conversation, but this book 0:05:25.325 --> 0:05:28.325 that you have written about you being a doctor and 0:05:28.405 --> 0:05:32.725 not just being a doctor but part of a familial 0:05:32.885 --> 0:05:39.325 legacy and work at the NHS, which is I gather 0:05:39.525 --> 0:05:44.525 some kind of it's a battle ground, yes, where all 0:05:44.565 --> 0:05:46.445 of Britain comes together. 0:05:46.685 --> 0:05:48.165 Yes, that's a that's a good description. 0:05:48.605 --> 0:05:52.325 Can you just talk us through how you decided to 0:05:52.365 --> 0:05:54.685 become a doctor. Now you said your dad was a doctor, 0:05:54.925 --> 0:05:55.885 your brother's a doctor. 0:05:56.205 --> 0:05:59.165 Oh like everywhere I look those doctors and that's probably 0:05:59.165 --> 0:06:04.685 the answer. So in the UK, your medicine's almost exclusively 0:06:04.685 --> 0:06:06.205 an undergraduate degree. 0:06:06.405 --> 0:06:08.605 So you're going into medical school as an eighteen year. 0:06:08.445 --> 0:06:12.605 Old, which means means they want various exams for you 0:06:12.645 --> 0:06:14.765 to sit first, and you choose them when you're sixteen 0:06:15.285 --> 0:06:18.845 and sixteens are very bad age to decide to do anything. 0:06:19.405 --> 0:06:22.765 Everyone's an idiot at sixteen, and so you're making a 0:06:22.805 --> 0:06:26.005 decision at an age where you can't really make a 0:06:26.045 --> 0:06:29.525 disc There's a thing in medicine, you know, informed consent, 0:06:29.765 --> 0:06:33.805 So you need an operation, whatever it is. You sign 0:06:33.805 --> 0:06:37.165 a consent form which says, here's why would you want 0:06:37.205 --> 0:06:39.885 to do it. These are the benefits. Here are the risks, 0:06:40.005 --> 0:06:43.165 bleeding infection, having an anesthetic, damaging other structure of blah 0:06:43.165 --> 0:06:44.805 blah blah, And then you weigh it all up and 0:06:44.845 --> 0:06:47.485 you go, yeah, fine, I still do it. Sign my 0:06:47.565 --> 0:06:51.205 name off we go. When you're applying to medicine, no 0:06:51.205 --> 0:06:54.205 one at any point mentions the other side of the coin, 0:06:54.725 --> 0:06:59.085 particularly to a teenager. So you're going in pretty pretty blind. 0:06:59.165 --> 0:07:04.125 And so you know the fact that I had adoctors 0:07:04.165 --> 0:07:07.285 in my family. It's a very bad reason to be adopted. 0:07:07.525 --> 0:07:10.365 I mean, it's probably much worse. And then like enjoying 0:07:10.605 --> 0:07:13.605 er or something, and so went in not knowing what 0:07:13.645 --> 0:07:16.085 I was expecting. I think most of the rest of 0:07:16.085 --> 0:07:19.525 the world. Medicine's a postgraduate degree. So you're going in 0:07:19.645 --> 0:07:22.605 like age twenty one or something, right, and then you're 0:07:22.605 --> 0:07:25.125 still an idiot when you're twenty one. Obviously no offense 0:07:25.165 --> 0:07:27.805 to your twenty one year old listeners, but at least 0:07:27.805 --> 0:07:31.845 you've probably had to leave your parents' house and earn 0:07:31.885 --> 0:07:34.405 a bit of money and maybe had a relationship and 0:07:34.445 --> 0:07:36.445 all these things that slightly broad enight your horizon on 0:07:36.525 --> 0:07:39.725 the world. But I went in with very narrow horizons, 0:07:40.005 --> 0:07:42.365 no idea what the job was going to be, and 0:07:42.885 --> 0:07:47.005 it probably unexpected that the story didn't have a happy ending. 0:07:47.605 --> 0:07:50.485 Well, it kind of had a happy ending for you, 0:07:51.485 --> 0:07:56.765 because it's you've actually I gather through your book and 0:07:56.805 --> 0:08:01.605 your subsequent work changed certain aspects of how doctors are 0:08:01.645 --> 0:08:06.085 regarding how they treated, particularly the innhase in the front 0:08:06.125 --> 0:08:10.925 lines like some sort of cannon fodder. Found it staggering 0:08:11.845 --> 0:08:15.285 just the status of how many hours you were working 0:08:15.605 --> 0:08:18.365 as a trainee doctor, and in fact it every even 0:08:18.605 --> 0:08:23.005 supposedly rising through the ranks, how many hours were you working, and. 0:08:23.005 --> 0:08:25.645 I think it topped out about like ninety four ninety 0:08:25.685 --> 0:08:30.005 five hours a week, which it's seen as I think 0:08:30.005 --> 0:08:32.045 things are slightly better now, but it was seen as 0:08:32.085 --> 0:08:34.165 a rite of passage that you know, I had to 0:08:34.165 --> 0:08:35.285 do it, so you have to do it, which is 0:08:35.285 --> 0:08:39.085 a terrible you know, it's a terrible reason to do anything, 0:08:39.165 --> 0:08:44.325 and it's not safe basically, And I remember there was 0:08:44.365 --> 0:08:47.725 one moment where I was working on a label ward, 0:08:47.765 --> 0:08:50.365 which is where I spent the vast petority of my 0:08:50.445 --> 0:08:54.845 career and they had, for some reason taken away like 0:08:54.965 --> 0:08:57.525 the the on call room where you could sleep like 0:08:57.645 --> 0:08:59.525 it never got particular guy, but you'd like be able 0:08:59.525 --> 0:09:02.005 to grab the odds twenty minutes, and they took. 0:09:01.845 --> 0:09:03.325 It away, and we were like, why have you taken 0:09:03.365 --> 0:09:03.765 this away? 0:09:03.925 --> 0:09:06.085 They were like, well, you're being paid to be at work, 0:09:06.165 --> 0:09:07.645 so you should be at work, not napping. 0:09:07.805 --> 0:09:08.965 Wanted to say to these. 0:09:08.845 --> 0:09:11.645 People, if it was you or your partner or wife, 0:09:11.685 --> 0:09:14.725 whatever it is, having the cesarean section, would you rather 0:09:14.885 --> 0:09:17.805 that doctor had been able to grab twenty minutes sleep 0:09:17.845 --> 0:09:20.645 beforehand or just being forced to work for, you know, 0:09:20.725 --> 0:09:23.205 twelve hours straight for the fifth day in the row. 0:09:23.685 --> 0:09:29.565 But you know, the NHS, I think is the most 0:09:29.605 --> 0:09:34.325 amazing system and concept. It's based on the fact that 0:09:34.565 --> 0:09:37.765 healthcare is delivered based on a clinical need, never based 0:09:37.765 --> 0:09:41.365 on your bank balance. But at the same time, they're 0:09:41.405 --> 0:09:44.045 not a good employer, so they don't treat their staff 0:09:44.165 --> 0:09:46.405 very well historically. 0:09:46.365 --> 0:09:49.045 And I don't know, I find it. 0:09:49.485 --> 0:09:52.165 I find it the slight paradox that this organization that 0:09:52.205 --> 0:09:55.645 are all about looking after people and helping people forget 0:09:55.725 --> 0:09:57.405 that a bit when it comes to their own. 0:09:57.485 --> 0:10:00.525 When you decided to become a doctor. Then what did 0:10:00.525 --> 0:10:01.525 your family say? 0:10:01.845 --> 0:10:04.725 My family were in charge of this decision, right, So 0:10:05.605 --> 0:10:09.965 I was I think everyone wants the best for their children. Yes, 0:10:10.085 --> 0:10:13.485 I've got two young children, myself very young, and so 0:10:13.565 --> 0:10:16.045 I'm now of suddenly realizing that it sort of totally 0:10:16.085 --> 0:10:18.165 recalibates your life. Then it's all about what's best for 0:10:18.165 --> 0:10:21.845 your kids. What was seen as best for me was 0:10:22.125 --> 0:10:27.045 a safe, sensible profession. So my parents are you know, 0:10:27.445 --> 0:10:32.885 they're from an immigrants population, Polish immigrant population, and it's 0:10:32.925 --> 0:10:35.965 about making you know the best for you know, of 0:10:36.005 --> 0:10:39.925 your life, improving yourself and making a difference. And doctor, lawyer, 0:10:40.165 --> 0:10:44.805 architect accounted like this sort of fairly small list of professions. 0:10:45.125 --> 0:10:48.405 I'm the eldest of four siblings, and the degrees we 0:10:48.445 --> 0:10:53.045 did were medicine, medicine, law, medicine, And that was my 0:10:53.285 --> 0:10:56.885 parents trying to make sure that we had sensible traits. 0:10:57.165 --> 0:11:00.805 My partner is also the eldest of four, and his 0:11:01.045 --> 0:11:05.965 dad worked in the advertising trade, sort of creative world, 0:11:06.165 --> 0:11:08.205 which my parents just had no idea of. I mean 0:11:08.565 --> 0:11:11.045 there's none of them mates, you know, did anything like that. 0:11:11.205 --> 0:11:14.485 And so the best for their children were slightly different. 0:11:14.725 --> 0:11:17.925 So there now, producer, producer, musician, producer. 0:11:18.205 --> 0:11:18.845 Ah. 0:11:18.885 --> 0:11:21.645 I don't begrudge them pushing me or strong arming me 0:11:22.005 --> 0:11:26.365 into that world, but ultimately, I think left to my 0:11:26.405 --> 0:11:30.805 own devices, I probably wouldn't have found al over the. 0:11:30.685 --> 0:11:35.565 World that you find yourself entering in you that you recount, 0:11:36.085 --> 0:11:39.205 and how brilliant was this Even though you came from 0:11:39.205 --> 0:11:43.645 this very traad medical family. Obviously, the creative in you 0:11:43.845 --> 0:11:49.645 was very strong, because you journaled even at your most exhausted. 0:11:50.165 --> 0:11:52.365 You kept a record of what had happened every day, 0:11:52.405 --> 0:11:54.565 and you write down funny stories and some of them 0:11:54.605 --> 0:11:59.525 heartbreaking stories. Do you think even then that there was 0:11:59.565 --> 0:12:04.685 something in you that knew that you weren't you just 0:12:04.725 --> 0:12:07.645 weren't that standard cut out of a doctor. 0:12:08.085 --> 0:12:11.005 I think I thought I was just someone who had 0:12:11.045 --> 0:12:14.285 a lot of hobbies, whereas what I actually had was 0:12:14.325 --> 0:12:18.285 something creative trying to burst out and take over. 0:12:18.685 --> 0:12:21.085 And it's interesting that you know why I was writing 0:12:21.125 --> 0:12:21.725 this stuff down. 0:12:21.805 --> 0:12:25.885 I think in retrospect it was probably my form of therapy, 0:12:26.245 --> 0:12:29.765 looking for the light amongst the dark, because going back 0:12:29.765 --> 0:12:33.085 through my diaries at the start, there were mostly the funny, silly, 0:12:33.125 --> 0:12:36.605 disgusting stories, and it actually took a few years before 0:12:36.645 --> 0:12:40.205 they became more reflective or I started talking about more 0:12:40.205 --> 0:12:43.805 of the tough stuff that had happened in my in 0:12:43.885 --> 0:12:47.445 my life. Medical school, for whatever reason, when I was there, 0:12:47.725 --> 0:12:51.605 an afternoon a week for six years was spent teaching 0:12:51.645 --> 0:12:54.845 us communication skills, which is good and right, because that's 0:12:54.845 --> 0:12:57.245 the cornerstone of what you do. It's about speaking to patients. 0:12:57.885 --> 0:13:00.885 But not once in all of that time was there 0:13:00.925 --> 0:13:04.085 a single minute spent telling us, Oh, and by the way, 0:13:04.085 --> 0:13:05.965 at some point, you're going to have some really bad days, 0:13:06.125 --> 0:13:08.605 and this is how you're going to have to cope. 0:13:08.765 --> 0:13:12.765 Here are some strategies for that. And in the absence 0:13:13.085 --> 0:13:18.125 of being taught any way of coping, you land in 0:13:18.165 --> 0:13:20.645 the deep end and have to improvise with your own 0:13:20.725 --> 0:13:23.965 And I guess what I did then is exactly the 0:13:24.045 --> 0:13:26.645 same as what I do now, which is writing this 0:13:26.725 --> 0:13:28.605 stuff down and drinking white wine. 0:13:28.645 --> 0:13:30.005 And both of those work. 0:13:30.365 --> 0:13:32.445 Neither of them are the gold standard, but you know, 0:13:32.925 --> 0:13:34.285 it's a way of dealing with stuff. 0:13:34.845 --> 0:13:39.045 Well, that's the self medicating thing that also, and possibly 0:13:39.085 --> 0:13:41.645 for the reason that you that you've just referred to, 0:13:42.405 --> 0:13:45.805 is a trap that ensnares a lot of doctors is 0:13:45.805 --> 0:13:47.485 the self medicating. 0:13:47.525 --> 0:13:51.805 Oh absolutely, And I think doctors have terrible what's called 0:13:51.845 --> 0:13:56.045 health seeking behavior. Like I've had so many occasions in 0:13:56.085 --> 0:13:59.045 my in my life where I've just not seen a 0:13:59.085 --> 0:14:03.405 doctor when I when I should, I've just been I've 0:14:03.405 --> 0:14:09.565 made myself ill, both physically and mentally because of I 0:14:09.565 --> 0:14:12.005 think it's suddenly you get taught at medical school. You're 0:14:12.005 --> 0:14:14.965 a bloody doctor. Your bloody get on with it, and 0:14:15.365 --> 0:14:18.765 that extends to your own health. You sort of think 0:14:19.005 --> 0:14:22.285 it's embarrassing being the doctor who speaks to another doctor. 0:14:22.445 --> 0:14:24.445 It'd be like a car mechanic taking the car to 0:14:24.485 --> 0:14:26.365 different mechanics and say, I don't know what's wrong with it. 0:14:26.605 --> 0:14:29.765 And so you've got a bit of that in you. 0:14:29.165 --> 0:14:31.525 You just plow one and that's never the right thing 0:14:31.525 --> 0:14:31.765 to do. 0:14:32.445 --> 0:14:38.485 The ideology I find very interesting because you're dealing with 0:14:38.605 --> 0:14:42.685 people who have come to you because they're in need, 0:14:43.805 --> 0:14:46.605 and you're on the one hand the person that has 0:14:46.685 --> 0:14:50.485 to present as the person who can help. But then 0:14:51.285 --> 0:14:53.565 on the other side of that, when that door closes, 0:14:53.605 --> 0:14:56.885 no matter how traumatic that experience and that exchange may 0:14:56.925 --> 0:15:00.765 have been, which in some cases does result in death, 0:15:01.285 --> 0:15:04.445 there's no one on the other side of that, looking 0:15:04.485 --> 0:15:06.485 after you in your hour of need. 0:15:07.485 --> 0:15:10.205 Yes, I mean you put it like that very eloquently, 0:15:10.605 --> 0:15:12.485 and it makes no sense at all. I don't think 0:15:12.525 --> 0:15:14.565 there's any way of framing it where it makes sense. 0:15:14.805 --> 0:15:17.485 The onner where I can rationalize it is that we 0:15:17.565 --> 0:15:20.125 don't like to think of our doctors as being human 0:15:21.165 --> 0:15:26.125 because humans make mistakes, and so you sort of, as 0:15:26.165 --> 0:15:29.365 the doctors, start to believe that that myth that you're 0:15:29.405 --> 0:15:33.605 somehow other and you don't make mistakes. But humans do 0:15:33.645 --> 0:15:36.005 make mistakes, and they get sick and they get sad. 0:15:36.485 --> 0:15:40.045 And here's an example, and this. 0:15:40.125 --> 0:15:42.285 Is patients not thinking of their doctors as humans, which 0:15:42.325 --> 0:15:47.205 is the same phenomenon as the bosses. So I did 0:15:47.245 --> 0:15:51.965 this prenatal clinic once a week, and it always ran late, 0:15:52.605 --> 0:15:54.445 so there was just this mismatch of number of doctor, 0:15:54.565 --> 0:15:55.245 number of patients. 0:15:55.325 --> 0:15:58.165 Should have ended at five, it ended at seven or eight, 0:15:58.245 --> 0:16:00.005 which is you know, this was rough. 0:16:00.645 --> 0:16:03.325 And so I did this for a year, and every 0:16:03.365 --> 0:16:05.805 single week when it came to six or seven o'clock, 0:16:06.725 --> 0:16:09.245 patients will be true. My year off quite rightly saying 0:16:09.325 --> 0:16:12.485 I have been waiting this long. I've seen their childcares 0:16:12.525 --> 0:16:16.005 all the cars on the meter, and I've apologized not 0:16:16.205 --> 0:16:19.045 once in a year of doing that, clinicted a single 0:16:19.125 --> 0:16:21.765 patient saying, you probably don't want to be here either, 0:16:22.325 --> 0:16:24.765 and I didn't. No one wants to be at work 0:16:24.805 --> 0:16:28.845 three hours late. But you don't think of your doctor 0:16:28.845 --> 0:16:32.405 as a person who's also got a life back home. 0:16:32.725 --> 0:16:38.085 They're just part of this organization. And the other illustration 0:16:38.205 --> 0:16:41.045 I think of that is I wrote in this book, 0:16:41.085 --> 0:16:45.605 I think fairly openly and honestly about struggles I'd had, 0:16:45.645 --> 0:16:47.885 which is something that doctors traditionally don't talk a whole 0:16:47.885 --> 0:16:50.925 load about, And as soon as it came out, I 0:16:51.045 --> 0:16:55.325 had messages from doctors all around the world saying, until 0:16:55.325 --> 0:16:57.525 I read that in your book, I thought that I 0:16:57.605 --> 0:16:59.845 was the first doctor who'd ever cried in the toilet, 0:16:59.885 --> 0:17:02.845 who ever cried in the locker room. But the truth 0:17:02.885 --> 0:17:06.725 of it is that every single doctor pretty much ends 0:17:06.805 --> 0:17:08.485 up crying in a locker room. 0:17:08.725 --> 0:17:11.805 But the fact that nobody talks about it. 0:17:11.245 --> 0:17:14.805 Means that, on top of whatever bad day just had 0:17:14.845 --> 0:17:17.285 that's led you to that position, you now. 0:17:17.205 --> 0:17:21.885 Also feel, I don't know that you're unique in struggling. 0:17:22.365 --> 0:17:26.485 That's really that's very othering and it makes a bad 0:17:26.565 --> 0:17:30.805 day even worse. But ultimately, what you know, the book, 0:17:30.885 --> 0:17:33.645 the show, Everything I Do is you know, it sells 0:17:33.685 --> 0:17:36.125 itself on being funny, and I guess it is, yes, 0:17:36.405 --> 0:17:40.965 But ultimately, underneath it, it's hopefully just a reminder that 0:17:41.045 --> 0:17:44.725 this is just a bunch of flawed human beings muddling 0:17:44.765 --> 0:17:48.445 along and doing their best and sometimes you know, not 0:17:48.765 --> 0:17:50.725 managing to get through their day. 0:17:51.125 --> 0:17:54.845 Right, but mostly managing to get through the day and 0:17:54.925 --> 0:17:58.125 managing to get other people through, managing to do the 0:17:58.165 --> 0:18:02.285 work of the doctor, which is healing. And that's quite remarkable. 0:18:02.245 --> 0:18:02.685 It is. 0:18:02.805 --> 0:18:06.885 And yeah, I reflect on that sometimes that but it 0:18:06.965 --> 0:18:10.085 ultimately comes down to the fact that so I'd leave 0:18:10.085 --> 0:18:12.445 a labor ward three hours later or whatever. 0:18:12.405 --> 0:18:14.885 I'd be still half covered in blood. 0:18:14.605 --> 0:18:17.365 Because I had time to wash it off, and the 0:18:17.445 --> 0:18:21.285 dinner's in the dog and I have to wind the 0:18:21.325 --> 0:18:23.285 window down and have the radio blow and just so 0:18:23.325 --> 0:18:25.245 I can stay awake on the drive home. 0:18:25.525 --> 0:18:29.125 But you still have a smile on your face because 0:18:30.125 --> 0:18:33.885 you know, working on a labor ward, you know, you know, 0:18:34.325 --> 0:18:38.005 having that unique role helping families, you know, bringing babies 0:18:38.005 --> 0:18:41.165 into the world. You know, potentially you know, resolving some 0:18:41.525 --> 0:18:44.245 difficult situation for a mum or a baby. I mean, 0:18:44.525 --> 0:18:47.365 that is amazing, and that's the reason if you didn't 0:18:47.365 --> 0:18:51.445 have those highs, there's no reason to come back to 0:18:51.485 --> 0:18:53.885 work the next day, given the number of blows there are. 0:18:54.925 --> 0:18:59.965 And also, I think humor is a great connector. And 0:19:00.045 --> 0:19:02.125 I do know. I've got girlfriends who own nurses, and 0:19:02.205 --> 0:19:06.085 I have to say they have a very dark sense 0:19:06.125 --> 0:19:14.285 of humor. Something about exposure to body bodily fluids makes 0:19:14.365 --> 0:19:18.205 people's sense of humors kind of going to the normal 0:19:18.285 --> 0:19:19.205 culder sex. 0:19:19.645 --> 0:19:22.885 Oh, totally, And the humor is one of the things 0:19:22.925 --> 0:19:28.165 that's fairly universal. And ultimately I suspect it comes down 0:19:28.205 --> 0:19:31.485 to this coping mechanism idea. In the absence of someone 0:19:31.685 --> 0:19:34.885 you know giving you the sensible ABCD, this is what 0:19:34.925 --> 0:19:36.325 you need to do. You need to have a debef 0:19:36.365 --> 0:19:37.805 you need to take some time that needs to speak 0:19:37.805 --> 0:19:41.085 to a counsel and all that. People are just like, well, 0:19:41.685 --> 0:19:44.525 let's just have a joke about it, because that's a 0:19:44.525 --> 0:19:48.005 lot better than nothing. And so that's what I was 0:19:48.045 --> 0:19:52.125 focusing on when I was writing writing my writing these 0:19:52.125 --> 0:19:53.805 stories down in Madari's. 0:19:54.005 --> 0:19:56.845 Humor is just such a great decompressor. 0:19:56.325 --> 0:20:01.885 Absolutely, and it's it's absolutely, it's absolutely vital. And yeah, 0:20:01.925 --> 0:20:04.085 and I'm very glad that I leant into it because 0:20:04.605 --> 0:20:06.925 you know, as well as giving me this this new 0:20:07.005 --> 0:20:09.165 career I now have, I suspect it was one of 0:20:09.205 --> 0:20:12.165 the the main reasons I was able to keep plowing on. 0:20:15.245 --> 0:20:17.925 There is so much more to my conversation with Adam Kay. 0:20:18.685 --> 0:20:21.805 After this short break, we go into why he left 0:20:22.325 --> 0:20:28.485 the medical industry and how his family of medical professionals responded. Hint, 0:20:28.805 --> 0:20:39.405 they weren't happy. You know what. I'm very glad about 0:20:39.925 --> 0:20:41.805 that people put things up their bottoms. 0:20:43.205 --> 0:20:45.285 Yeah, they absolutely do. 0:20:45.925 --> 0:20:48.805 That's got to be one of the top three questions. Surely, 0:20:49.085 --> 0:20:49.445 it's an. 0:20:49.405 --> 0:20:52.685 Interesting one, this one, because I've been I've written up 0:20:53.285 --> 0:20:58.005 all of my exciting objects in orifice stories and there's 0:20:58.085 --> 0:21:02.485 there's no shortage of those in my show whatever. Yeah, 0:21:02.645 --> 0:21:06.205 Sometimes when i'm you know, i'm speaking to interviewed or whatever, 0:21:06.485 --> 0:21:08.365 someone will say, oh, this one where someone could have 0:21:08.405 --> 0:21:10.005 a toilet blush, kinder. 0:21:09.765 --> 0:21:12.245 Egg or whatever it is. 0:21:12.605 --> 0:21:16.165 And when I'm speaking to doctors, like if i'm you know, 0:21:16.325 --> 0:21:18.845 if I do a show and I'm signing books afterwards 0:21:18.885 --> 0:21:21.205 or whatever, someone will come up to me and what 0:21:21.245 --> 0:21:24.365 they said, that's nothing. Here's my top five things I've 0:21:24.365 --> 0:21:26.845 removed from inside a face. I think it's a very 0:21:26.845 --> 0:21:28.485 competitive part of medicine. 0:21:28.565 --> 0:21:31.085 And what do they what do they trump your toilet 0:21:31.165 --> 0:21:34.165 brush with? I mean, that's hard to try. 0:21:34.325 --> 0:21:38.805 I don't think I don't think anyone has beaten the 0:21:38.885 --> 0:21:43.285 kinderreg story, to be honest, an Australian phenomenon. 0:21:43.965 --> 0:21:46.485 Little toy in the little toy. 0:21:46.565 --> 0:21:50.325 Yeah, so's so slippery, I imagine. 0:21:50.605 --> 0:21:55.285 Yeah, it's a little plastic egg thing. So this is 0:21:55.285 --> 0:22:00.725 a story from February to twenty ninth, two thousand and four. 0:22:01.405 --> 0:22:05.085 So this sort of leap you where in the UK surpi. 0:22:05.165 --> 0:22:07.885 There's this very old fashioned tradition that is sort of 0:22:08.165 --> 0:22:10.125 I'm sure not observed in what we used to be 0:22:10.165 --> 0:22:12.365 a thing where that was the day of the year, 0:22:12.885 --> 0:22:15.965 it was considered traditional for the woman to propose to 0:22:16.005 --> 0:22:18.965 the man rather than vice versa. So this is this, 0:22:19.125 --> 0:22:23.085 you know, sort of slightly Victorian whatever idea. Anyway, this 0:22:23.325 --> 0:22:26.885 particular patient of mine decided that she was going to 0:22:26.925 --> 0:22:32.325 take this opportunity to to propose and put an engagement 0:22:32.445 --> 0:22:35.925 ring inside the plastic bit from inside the kinderreggs and 0:22:36.005 --> 0:22:40.645 inserted the egg vaginally, and the plan would be that 0:22:40.725 --> 0:22:45.605 her boyfriend would locate it, remove it, and then she 0:22:45.605 --> 0:22:47.125 would get down on one knee. 0:22:47.245 --> 0:22:50.845 All right, right, there'd be an element of surprise, obviously. 0:22:50.485 --> 0:22:54.725 Imagine there'd be a huge element of surprise. So she 0:22:54.845 --> 0:22:55.325 does this. 0:22:55.765 --> 0:23:00.805 Unfortunately it sort of manages to wedge itself like sideways, 0:23:00.925 --> 0:23:03.805 and it gets you know, he can't remove it, and 0:23:03.845 --> 0:23:06.005 then she has again. She can't remember it. She's not 0:23:06.165 --> 0:23:09.485 told him what's going on at this point, and then 0:23:09.725 --> 0:23:13.885 eventually decides she needs to pop to the hospital, the 0:23:13.925 --> 0:23:15.845 emergency department where she meets me and we you know, 0:23:15.965 --> 0:23:19.765 hang out in cubable three and there's a fairly easy delivery. 0:23:19.765 --> 0:23:23.005 We've got a pair of spongeholding forceps remove it and 0:23:23.045 --> 0:23:24.085 then sorry, how. 0:23:23.965 --> 0:23:26.005 Did she tell you? Did she tell you the whole story? 0:23:26.605 --> 0:23:29.445 She said there's something up there, no further details. She 0:23:29.485 --> 0:23:32.005 didn't want to run the surprise for any of us. 0:23:32.205 --> 0:23:34.725 You've got a poker face, you don't ask too many questions. 0:23:34.885 --> 0:23:37.685 I've got another thirty eight patients to see. Let's just 0:23:37.925 --> 0:23:40.565 remove whatever it is. Checks, she's all right, get her 0:23:40.605 --> 0:23:44.485 home on we go, So remove this this thing and 0:23:44.525 --> 0:23:46.565 about to chuck it in the bin. She says, oh no, no, no, 0:23:46.725 --> 0:23:49.685 atnd of that, he needs to open it. Oh god, 0:23:50.365 --> 0:23:54.125 So so I passed him a pair of Latex gloves, 0:23:54.965 --> 0:23:57.925 you know, sand last in the last remnant of romance 0:23:57.965 --> 0:24:04.605 from this situation. He puts them on, opens it up, 0:24:04.885 --> 0:24:08.445 engagement ring, he said, yes, presumably out of fear at 0:24:08.485 --> 0:24:09.205 this stage. 0:24:09.525 --> 0:24:14.405 Uh what's what's what's she likely to do? As interest 0:24:14.485 --> 0:24:16.205 as no? 0:24:17.285 --> 0:24:19.445 So, but yeah, there's I mean, there's a lot of 0:24:19.605 --> 0:24:21.525 a lot of the Christmas was very good for this 0:24:21.685 --> 0:24:25.285 sort of stuff happening. Maybe it's like a special special 0:24:25.325 --> 0:24:29.005 occasion thing. But the worst I had was someone who 0:24:29.485 --> 0:24:35.565 put a string of Christmas lights inside and then switch 0:24:35.645 --> 0:24:41.365 them on, causing like all these little burns. Oh, bringing 0:24:41.765 --> 0:24:44.285 new mean to the phrase I put the Christmas lights 0:24:44.325 --> 0:24:47.405 up myself. And what else we had we've had. 0:24:47.885 --> 0:24:51.525 The remote control. I love that you say people would 0:24:51.525 --> 0:24:54.925 always come to you with stories about it's always you. 0:24:55.085 --> 0:24:59.205 I think you refer to it as Eiffel Eiffel tower syndrome. 0:24:59.325 --> 0:25:00.565 I feel I fail. 0:25:00.805 --> 0:25:02.725 Yeah, exactly, And the. 0:25:02.645 --> 0:25:05.405 Remote control one sounded quite plausible. 0:25:05.285 --> 0:25:11.205 Until until because I mean, I mean basically one, don't 0:25:11.325 --> 0:25:13.525 lie to your dot it's never helpful. They're trying to 0:25:13.605 --> 0:25:16.605 they're on your team. And also they're not going to 0:25:17.205 --> 0:25:18.645 I mean i'd say they're not going to remember it. 0:25:18.685 --> 0:25:20.565 They might be me and just write it down a little. 0:25:20.365 --> 0:25:20.965 Bit of books. 0:25:21.485 --> 0:25:25.565 I mean, but I always anonymous level anyway, But it's 0:25:25.605 --> 0:25:28.085 just unhelpful, just makes being slower and patients decide they 0:25:28.085 --> 0:25:30.245 have to spare our blushes or like we've seen worse. 0:25:30.285 --> 0:25:31.805 We have one hundred per cent to well. But there 0:25:31.845 --> 0:25:35.365 was one story when I could sort of believe it 0:25:35.405 --> 0:25:38.365 because it wasn't a big remote control and it was 0:25:38.445 --> 0:25:40.045 wedged between sofa cushions. 0:25:40.045 --> 0:25:42.605 This I was like, I mean, that could have happened, 0:25:42.645 --> 0:25:44.045 and you know, you try and get it out and 0:25:44.085 --> 0:25:47.365 when you do it push it's further anyway, So they 0:25:47.445 --> 0:25:48.565 told me there's big preamble. 0:25:48.645 --> 0:25:51.125 They sort of removed it, and when I removed it, 0:25:51.125 --> 0:25:52.485 it did have a condom on it. 0:25:52.565 --> 0:25:58.045 So that that maybe maybe went against anyway. 0:25:58.085 --> 0:26:00.245 I mean, we could literally talk for ten hours just 0:26:00.325 --> 0:26:03.125 on this topic. But maybe that's why so many people 0:26:03.125 --> 0:26:05.245 bought the books. They just like to hear these stories. 0:26:05.565 --> 0:26:08.765 It's much like I think how people watch reality TV 0:26:09.965 --> 0:26:12.525 because you can kind of feel a bit superior in 0:26:12.645 --> 0:26:14.765 some way to someone. 0:26:14.925 --> 0:26:18.405 I mean, I've not invented the medical biography, not by 0:26:18.565 --> 0:26:22.125 hundreds and hundreds of years, but I think what I 0:26:22.205 --> 0:26:26.045 leant into more is sort of the other side of 0:26:26.085 --> 0:26:29.485 life when you're not at work, that you don't sometimes 0:26:29.485 --> 0:26:31.805 see what happens when the doctor and the nurse and 0:26:31.845 --> 0:26:34.885 a paramedic gets home and like what their actual life 0:26:34.885 --> 0:26:37.685 looks like. So I think people have been quite interested 0:26:37.725 --> 0:26:40.485 in sort of peering behind the blue curtain and learning 0:26:40.485 --> 0:26:42.805 more about, you know, the staff room and the home. 0:26:42.645 --> 0:26:47.085 Life, also the home life that you barely got to enjoy. 0:26:47.685 --> 0:26:51.365 That's the thing for all sorts of reasons. Being a 0:26:51.405 --> 0:26:56.765 doctor is all consuming. So in the UK you have 0:26:56.845 --> 0:27:01.485 to move hospital every six or twelve months, which is 0:27:01.485 --> 0:27:04.085 a good idea in theory took at some big hospital 0:27:04.165 --> 0:27:06.205 or some small ones I'm experts in and that's so 0:27:06.325 --> 0:27:08.885 that by the time you're a consultant the senior doctor, 0:27:09.045 --> 0:27:11.845 you're the best possible version of yourself in terms of 0:27:11.885 --> 0:27:15.005 your training. But they move you around a huge area. 0:27:15.805 --> 0:27:19.965 You could be randomly allocated around Scotland, which is you know, 0:27:20.125 --> 0:27:23.605 it's hard to find an apartment's. 0:27:22.525 --> 0:27:23.765 Candy for all of Scotland. 0:27:23.805 --> 0:27:26.125 It's like the equivalent to being told, oh, you're just 0:27:26.125 --> 0:27:29.005 going to be working somewhere randomly New South Wales and 0:27:29.045 --> 0:27:31.245 good luck finding a place that's handy for all that. 0:27:31.325 --> 0:27:34.045 And so every six or twelve months you end up 0:27:34.285 --> 0:27:38.125 moving sixty or seventy miles away, and which is okay 0:27:38.125 --> 0:27:40.005 if you exist in a vacuum. But if you've got 0:27:40.045 --> 0:27:44.485 a partner, they might say yes once to moving the 0:27:44.565 --> 0:27:46.725 uproots in their lives, and they're going to say yes, 0:27:46.765 --> 0:27:50.365 you know, six times in a row. And also there's 0:27:50.405 --> 0:27:53.805 this thing where you become I don't know, so like 0:27:53.885 --> 0:27:58.725 you're working a labor wordshift on paper. Your contract says 0:27:58.765 --> 0:28:01.605 that you know you'll finish at five o'clock, but it's 0:28:01.605 --> 0:28:05.245 never really five o'clock. There's some emergency and I guess 0:28:05.285 --> 0:28:07.445 technically have a choice at five o'clock if there's someone 0:28:07.685 --> 0:28:10.925 you know bleeding out, you could, but I mean, it'd 0:28:10.965 --> 0:28:12.965 never really applied to medical school in the first place 0:28:13.005 --> 0:28:14.845 if that was a real decision. So you end up 0:28:14.925 --> 0:28:16.925 and there's not enough people to mop up and you know, 0:28:16.965 --> 0:28:19.045 and to you know, to take your place. 0:28:19.165 --> 0:28:20.445 There's no slack in the system. 0:28:20.525 --> 0:28:25.245 So you keep helping this this patient and then suddenly 0:28:25.325 --> 0:28:27.885 at seven point thirty and you're texting someone, I'm really 0:28:27.885 --> 0:28:29.645 really sorry, I'm gonna have to bail on drinks this 0:28:29.725 --> 0:28:32.325 evening because you know this happened the world and they 0:28:32.445 --> 0:28:35.725 understand because you're a doctor and you know you're not 0:28:35.845 --> 0:28:39.765 lying as you know some stuff that happened. Once you've 0:28:39.805 --> 0:28:43.605 texted the same friend two or three times in a 0:28:43.725 --> 0:28:48.925 row to counsel, you've become the flaky friend and they 0:28:49.005 --> 0:28:53.445 just stop inviting you out. And so you see real time, 0:28:53.525 --> 0:28:55.565 in your first year or two as a doctor, your 0:28:55.605 --> 0:29:03.125 social circle just just shrinking to almost nothing. And when 0:29:03.125 --> 0:29:05.405 you do get home, you're just you're just knackered. You 0:29:05.485 --> 0:29:09.125 just want to have a nap. And so it does 0:29:09.805 --> 0:29:11.045 does have this big impact. 0:29:11.565 --> 0:29:13.325 Well, it goes back to the point that you were 0:29:13.325 --> 0:29:16.925 saying that people don't necessarily think of their doctors as 0:29:17.005 --> 0:29:21.445 being human. But what you're describing is a system that 0:29:21.685 --> 0:29:26.325 also doesn't see its doctors as being human. And in Australia, 0:29:26.445 --> 0:29:28.885 I understand why people see parallels with your book because 0:29:28.925 --> 0:29:34.725 we also have praise be socialized medicine, so anybody can 0:29:34.765 --> 0:29:39.365 get the treatment that they need, regardless of their ability 0:29:39.445 --> 0:29:44.285 to pay. But what you need for that to work 0:29:45.125 --> 0:29:48.645 is the best doctors in the world to be working 0:29:48.645 --> 0:29:53.765 in the best conditions. If you are dehumanized, what does 0:29:53.805 --> 0:29:57.245 that mean? Who am I coming in to see? 0:29:58.125 --> 0:29:58.645 Exactly? 0:29:58.805 --> 0:30:03.965 And ultimately they leave and I know for a fact 0:30:04.445 --> 0:30:07.325 like I did, and I know for a fact that 0:30:07.605 --> 0:30:12.285 Australia treats their doctor is better than the UK because 0:30:12.805 --> 0:30:18.005 of the exodus of staff from the UK to Australia. 0:30:18.045 --> 0:30:21.085 In two News even the number one and two places 0:30:21.565 --> 0:30:27.285 that British doctors go to. Last year in the UK, 0:30:28.005 --> 0:30:32.085 seventy seven zero doctors quit their jobs every single week. 0:30:32.445 --> 0:30:37.365 That was three times as many doctors quit their jobs 0:30:37.405 --> 0:30:42.965 as retired. Wow, it's a crisis in the retention of staff. 0:30:43.645 --> 0:30:46.845 And there was a big thing about pay in the 0:30:46.925 --> 0:30:51.125 UK and doctors end up going on strike and that 0:30:51.165 --> 0:30:54.645 got resolved with the government and that was sorted out. 0:30:54.725 --> 0:30:58.645 And doctors do get paid more on Australia than in 0:30:58.685 --> 0:31:00.925 the UK. I think it's fair to say, but it 0:31:01.005 --> 0:31:04.085 wasn't just about that. It's about how you're treated, how 0:31:04.085 --> 0:31:05.005 you're looked after. 0:31:05.565 --> 0:31:06.685 You know, I speak quite a lot. 0:31:06.605 --> 0:31:08.205 About this, and you know I talk about it on 0:31:08.245 --> 0:31:10.605 social media and people you know, tell me their own 0:31:10.605 --> 0:31:13.445 stories of what had happened to them. So like someone 0:31:14.005 --> 0:31:16.525 telling me that on the day of their own wedding, 0:31:16.805 --> 0:31:21.445 which understandably they'd given, you know, I don't know how 0:31:21.445 --> 0:31:23.325 whether it's six not three years noticed that they were 0:31:23.365 --> 0:31:26.125 getting married. On this stage, they couldn't get the full 0:31:26.205 --> 0:31:29.845 day off and they were only given the afternoon and 0:31:29.925 --> 0:31:32.205 evening off, so they had to do a clinic in 0:31:32.245 --> 0:31:35.205 the morning wearing their wedding care and makeup. 0:31:35.485 --> 0:31:37.165 That is not looking after your style. 0:31:38.205 --> 0:31:42.485 Someone who I know, who's I think fiance at the time, 0:31:43.005 --> 0:31:46.245 became very ill and was admitted to an intensive K unit. 0:31:46.845 --> 0:31:49.645 It's fine now, but I was admitted to intensive K 0:31:49.725 --> 0:31:55.605 you obviously a very stressful time and said to her hospital, sorry, 0:31:55.645 --> 0:31:59.085 I need to go and be supportive, and they said, 0:31:59.125 --> 0:32:02.805 I'm sorry, but that you do not get compassionate leave 0:32:03.245 --> 0:32:06.565 unless it's a first degree relative or a spouse and 0:32:06.605 --> 0:32:10.645 you're not married, so technically that wasn't given compassion at leave, 0:32:11.285 --> 0:32:14.765 and so that is not looking after your staff properly. 0:32:15.205 --> 0:32:19.965 It's about making sure that if something bad happens on 0:32:20.005 --> 0:32:25.445 the ward, there is a debrief afterwards that it's all 0:32:25.485 --> 0:32:27.685 sorts of things. It's about making sure you've got a 0:32:27.725 --> 0:32:30.045 staff room, just a place, you know, even a knacked 0:32:30.045 --> 0:32:33.525 old sofa in a sort of a thirty year old 0:32:33.605 --> 0:32:36.045 kettle to make yourself a cup of coffee with some 0:32:36.085 --> 0:32:41.805 horrable granules. It's just the very bare basics which places 0:32:41.845 --> 0:32:44.485 don't have, like they close down the staff room. 0:32:45.045 --> 0:32:51.045 I'm so curious about how there was never any sense 0:32:51.085 --> 0:32:51.845 of mutiny. 0:32:52.645 --> 0:32:58.565 I think the mutiny doesn't happen because it's ultimately about patients, 0:32:59.365 --> 0:33:02.845 and patients suffer. If the doctors say that's it, I'm off, 0:33:03.165 --> 0:33:08.325 and is still have a huge amount of guilt about 0:33:08.685 --> 0:33:12.245 leaving the profe. Most people don't leave leave, they go 0:33:12.485 --> 0:33:14.445 somewhere else, And I don't think there's any need to 0:33:14.445 --> 0:33:19.165 have guilt about that, because you're helping human beings, you know, 0:33:19.245 --> 0:33:21.525 wherever they are in the world or all one big family. 0:33:22.245 --> 0:33:25.645 I have a huge amount of guilt because I'm not helping. 0:33:25.725 --> 0:33:27.925 I mean, the arts obviously have the most enormous value, 0:33:27.925 --> 0:33:29.605 but I'd have to have quite the ego as an 0:33:29.685 --> 0:33:33.005 author or a comedian to say that what I do 0:33:33.165 --> 0:33:34.965 on a day to day basis is in any way 0:33:35.005 --> 0:33:38.125 comparable to saving a mum's life on a labor ward. 0:33:38.645 --> 0:33:41.525 And it was that feeling that kept me in medicine, 0:33:41.725 --> 0:33:43.245 probably longer than. 0:33:43.245 --> 0:33:45.765 I might have otherwise done. 0:33:46.325 --> 0:33:48.365 I had to wait until I had a big, you know, 0:33:49.245 --> 0:33:53.045 acute thing happened. You know, the thousand cuts I was 0:33:53.085 --> 0:33:55.805 having on a weekly basis. I was, I was just 0:33:55.885 --> 0:33:57.845 I was just wearing those. It wasn't still a big 0:33:57.885 --> 0:34:00.245 thing happened that I actually left. And I think it's 0:34:00.245 --> 0:34:04.045 that guilt that means that I still, you know, do 0:34:04.165 --> 0:34:07.445 what I can to support my former colleague who are 0:34:07.485 --> 0:34:09.325 still working on the front line. 0:34:09.965 --> 0:34:13.725 Hey, you know that period between when you left the NHS, 0:34:13.805 --> 0:34:18.005 which as it happens, I mean at the end of 0:34:18.005 --> 0:34:22.605 the book, it's just it's such a devastating thing. It's 0:34:22.605 --> 0:34:27.285 the most devastating thing that I can imagine would happen 0:34:28.205 --> 0:34:31.685 to the woman involved and also to the doctor who's 0:34:31.725 --> 0:34:35.565 involved in a labor ward. Yeah, when that happened, and I, 0:34:36.325 --> 0:34:38.285 like you said, prior to that, it had been the 0:34:38.325 --> 0:34:40.845 death of a thousand cuts. Prior to that, you'd had 0:34:41.485 --> 0:34:43.445 you know, your best friends saying I don't think there's 0:34:43.445 --> 0:34:45.965 any point in us being friends anymore, because You've missed 0:34:45.965 --> 0:34:49.845 so many of the significant things in my life, but 0:34:50.045 --> 0:34:52.765 this and that was very moving. But this at the 0:34:52.885 --> 0:34:59.645 end is just so hard to read, almost impossible for 0:34:59.725 --> 0:35:02.725 you to come back from as a doctor. Is that 0:35:02.805 --> 0:35:03.805 how it proved to be? 0:35:04.245 --> 0:35:04.645 It is? 0:35:04.765 --> 0:35:06.765 So I'm not going to go into huge details, but 0:35:06.845 --> 0:35:10.045 essentially I was the most senior label doctor on a 0:35:10.085 --> 0:35:13.045 particular shift at a weekend, and all you want from 0:35:13.205 --> 0:35:15.485 every case as a barman and as a healthy mom 0:35:15.485 --> 0:35:17.125 and a healthy baby, and this is one of these 0:35:17.845 --> 0:35:21.405 terrible situations where we had neither of those two things. 0:35:21.485 --> 0:35:25.685 And essentially I realized at that point that I didn't 0:35:25.685 --> 0:35:29.685 have the emotional I don't know buffer to deal with 0:35:29.725 --> 0:35:30.365 this stuff. 0:35:30.965 --> 0:35:32.045 I could deal with a. 0:35:31.965 --> 0:35:34.965 Certain level a bad day at work, but there was 0:35:34.965 --> 0:35:38.205 a point at which it just absolutely knocked me over. 0:35:39.005 --> 0:35:42.605 And it was obvious I wasn't coping. 0:35:42.645 --> 0:35:44.965 I wasn't speaking to anyone about this, but my friends, 0:35:45.165 --> 0:35:47.485 you know, people on the boards knew what had happened, 0:35:47.485 --> 0:35:51.445 because you know, were travels quite quickly, and I wasn't 0:35:51.445 --> 0:35:54.205 doing very well. I was I was being very overcautious 0:35:54.605 --> 0:35:57.125 as a doctor because I never wanted this to ever happen. 0:35:57.165 --> 0:35:57.525 Ever, again. 0:35:57.685 --> 0:36:00.805 So I was thinking, I have to prevent this, but 0:36:00.965 --> 0:36:02.965 everyone gets this is there in section as soon as 0:36:03.085 --> 0:36:04.805 our baby's heart rate drops by one beat. 0:36:04.805 --> 0:36:08.285 Permante was But being. 0:36:08.125 --> 0:36:11.925 Overcautious is just as bad as being under cautious. And 0:36:12.725 --> 0:36:16.365 I'd lost my confidence in myself and I'd stop being 0:36:16.605 --> 0:36:18.285 if I have always a good doctor, I'd stop being 0:36:19.045 --> 0:36:22.045 a good doctor in terms of my clinical judgment. And 0:36:24.005 --> 0:36:28.525 people would want me to feel better about what has happened, 0:36:28.765 --> 0:36:34.045 and they'd remind me that it doesn't matter how good 0:36:34.085 --> 0:36:37.965 you are, how experienced you are, how many courses you take, 0:36:38.085 --> 0:36:41.365 how many babies you've delivered, it's just a horrible fact 0:36:41.405 --> 0:36:44.765 of the job that, through sheer awful luck, if you're 0:36:44.765 --> 0:36:47.045 in that role, you will have some kind of big 0:36:47.045 --> 0:36:49.925 disaster to every five or six years. And that's just 0:36:50.045 --> 0:36:52.205 part of the job. And so it wasn't your fault, 0:36:52.765 --> 0:36:56.605 just one of those things. But hearing that made me 0:36:56.885 --> 0:37:00.365 realize that I couldn't face that kind of thing ever 0:37:00.365 --> 0:37:03.405 happened as to me. Ever again, I've just you know, 0:37:03.765 --> 0:37:07.805 I don't have the armor, the exoskeleton that whatever it is, 0:37:07.845 --> 0:37:11.685 the coping mechanism to deal with it. And so I 0:37:12.565 --> 0:37:17.005 stepped away what I thought would be six months while 0:37:17.045 --> 0:37:21.845 I while I regrouped and and you know, got my 0:37:21.925 --> 0:37:26.525 life back together, and I'm essentially still in those six 0:37:26.565 --> 0:37:28.285 months off fourteen years later. 0:37:29.165 --> 0:37:33.365 So how is that? Because well, you know, we've spoke 0:37:33.405 --> 0:37:37.885 about the family dynasty, the doctor dynasty or the dynasty 0:37:38.765 --> 0:37:44.405 for our non American listeners, how was that when you had, to, 0:37:45.165 --> 0:37:49.085 for instance, tell your family that you were not returning 0:37:49.125 --> 0:37:50.405 to medicine. 0:37:50.165 --> 0:37:55.485 It went very badly, and again out of concern because 0:37:55.765 --> 0:37:57.525 you know, what on earth am I doing? 0:37:57.525 --> 0:37:58.805 Why would you give up this job? 0:37:59.165 --> 0:38:06.125 And I suspect that if I were to announce to 0:38:06.205 --> 0:38:08.325 you and I was going back to medicine, I would 0:38:08.365 --> 0:38:12.205 hear the cheers my mother all the way. She'd hear 0:38:12.285 --> 0:38:15.845 from Australia and we'd hear the cheer from England. 0:38:16.125 --> 0:38:18.005 She must have thought you were a beautiful doctor. 0:38:18.125 --> 0:38:22.605 Actually, she was very proud of my achievements in medicine. 0:38:23.045 --> 0:38:26.605 Found it slightly harder to recognize what an achievement was 0:38:26.645 --> 0:38:28.325 in a world that she wasn't part. 0:38:28.085 --> 0:38:32.805 Of, like writing TV shows or writing books. But now 0:38:32.845 --> 0:38:36.005 she sort of now she gets it. I mean, there 0:38:36.045 --> 0:38:38.125 was a very long period of time where I was 0:38:38.685 --> 0:38:42.885 a jobbing TV writer, so I'd write on episode four 0:38:42.965 --> 0:38:45.285 of series six of someone else's sitcom or be a 0:38:45.285 --> 0:38:48.365 script editor. And I was so fortunate as a writer 0:38:48.405 --> 0:38:51.285 because the vast majority of writers don't get to write 0:38:51.565 --> 0:38:52.165 full time. 0:38:52.245 --> 0:38:55.405 So I was, of course, even though you know, no 0:38:55.405 --> 0:38:57.045 one knew who I was, and I was just sort 0:38:57.085 --> 0:38:59.525 of getting on with her. I was having a lovely time. 0:39:03.285 --> 0:39:06.405 Coming up. Adam tells me whose decision it was to 0:39:06.565 --> 0:39:13.045 casp beIN wi Shaw as himself spoiler, It was him. 0:39:13.205 --> 0:39:21.885 Do I go anywhere? How did you transition into writing me? 0:39:22.245 --> 0:39:28.085 That's an interesting question. So when I left medicine, everyone 0:39:28.165 --> 0:39:30.165 was like, oh, you'll be fine. You'll be fine, Adam. 0:39:30.205 --> 0:39:33.445 You've got loads of transferable skills. And then I thought about, like, 0:39:34.005 --> 0:39:36.045 I don't know what these transferable skills are. 0:39:36.085 --> 0:39:38.925 I could do cesarean sections, and who else wants that 0:39:39.085 --> 0:39:40.725 other than hospitals. 0:39:42.805 --> 0:39:43.445 Exactly. 0:39:46.405 --> 0:39:49.885 And so the only other thing that I'd done, you know, 0:39:50.285 --> 0:39:52.965 I said, So I went straight from school to medical school, 0:39:52.965 --> 0:39:55.125 and they's straight into medicine there, straight into obstetrics, and 0:39:55.245 --> 0:39:57.485 I hadn't taken a breath. The only thing that I 0:39:57.525 --> 0:40:00.805 could identify that i'd done was at medical school doing 0:40:00.845 --> 0:40:04.445 these like comedy shows, and so I was like, I'm 0:40:04.485 --> 0:40:07.205 going to give comedy ago. I've done it a bit 0:40:07.245 --> 0:40:10.805 before I enjoyed it. Some other people have pretended to 0:40:10.885 --> 0:40:13.965 enjoy it, and so if not, now when? And so 0:40:14.125 --> 0:40:18.085 I started doing stand up comedy. And it's not a 0:40:18.085 --> 0:40:21.925 full time job doing comedy because most of the gigs 0:40:21.965 --> 0:40:23.885 are Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights. 0:40:24.485 --> 0:40:26.925 Most of those gigs are a five hour drive away. 0:40:27.205 --> 0:40:29.605 And then I get to do like ten minutes on 0:40:29.685 --> 0:40:32.685 a stage to twenty people, and then I'm driving back 0:40:32.685 --> 0:40:34.485 and then they're doing nothing for four days and then 0:40:34.485 --> 0:40:40.365 it starts again. And then I just started started writing, 0:40:40.445 --> 0:40:43.845 thinking of comedy ideas, starting to meet TV producers, and 0:40:43.925 --> 0:40:46.965 I'm very grateful to a couple of TV producers who 0:40:47.005 --> 0:40:51.085 gave me my initial break, you know, helping out at 0:40:50.925 --> 0:40:53.885 a very junior level writing on some TV shows. And 0:40:53.925 --> 0:40:56.605 then I clearly didn't destroy those shows because I got 0:40:56.685 --> 0:40:59.205 invited back to another one. And then that built over 0:40:59.485 --> 0:41:01.965 over a couple of years until I was I was 0:41:02.005 --> 0:41:05.525 in this lucky position of being able to earn across 0:41:06.045 --> 0:41:08.365 that was only a fortune. But I think I suspect 0:41:08.365 --> 0:41:10.965 I was earning less than I ever was as a doctor. 0:41:10.965 --> 0:41:15.765 But I was doing something with zero stakes. A bad 0:41:15.845 --> 0:41:19.165 day at work meant someone on a stage, you know, 0:41:19.365 --> 0:41:21.205 through a can of to marches on my head or whatever, 0:41:21.485 --> 0:41:23.925 or someone a producer said, this is the worst script 0:41:23.965 --> 0:41:27.205 I've ever read, Please never darken my door. 0:41:27.445 --> 0:41:28.365 But no one. 0:41:28.245 --> 0:41:31.845 Died unless you killed on stage. 0:41:31.525 --> 0:41:33.045 Unless I killed on stage. 0:41:33.085 --> 0:41:36.125 And so far I've had a lot of collapses, but 0:41:36.205 --> 0:41:39.645 no one has died in one. And in fact, if 0:41:39.685 --> 0:41:43.525 you're particularly infirmly considering a comedy show, mine are a 0:41:43.565 --> 0:41:46.285 great audience to be in because the number of doctors 0:41:46.285 --> 0:41:48.845 and nurses and paramedics who come along to these shows, 0:41:48.965 --> 0:41:52.325 it's probably the safest place in any city. So I 0:41:52.365 --> 0:41:55.765 was doing this predominantly writing bit of stand up, and 0:41:56.285 --> 0:42:00.685 I went up to the Edinburgh Fringe, where I performed 0:42:00.725 --> 0:42:02.685 a number of times for but haven't been for maybe 0:42:03.005 --> 0:42:03.925 five or six years. 0:42:03.965 --> 0:42:05.005 Wow, that's tough. 0:42:05.165 --> 0:42:06.045 It's tough, but. 0:42:07.005 --> 0:42:11.245 I've done it before and by this stage I'm fairly 0:42:11.325 --> 0:42:14.485 battle hardened, and I decided I wanted a full month 0:42:14.485 --> 0:42:17.005 at the Edam Fringe to remind myself back to basics 0:42:17.045 --> 0:42:21.085 of comedy. And I didn't write the show until very 0:42:21.165 --> 0:42:23.085 very late, I didn't quite know what it's going to be. 0:42:23.485 --> 0:42:27.605 And James, my partner, said, why don't you read out 0:42:27.645 --> 0:42:30.205 from some of your diaries, which he knew that I'd 0:42:30.285 --> 0:42:32.885 kept and they'd come with us on you know team, 0:42:33.085 --> 0:42:36.085 you know, moved from apartment to apartments and wherever to 0:42:36.085 --> 0:42:37.645 whoever in my filing cabinet. 0:42:38.485 --> 0:42:39.205 And I thought about it. 0:42:39.245 --> 0:42:40.765 I said, okay, I'll give it a go, and so 0:42:41.205 --> 0:42:44.925 I went on stage and I literally read that from 0:42:44.925 --> 0:42:47.965 scraps of paper and it was by far the best 0:42:48.005 --> 0:42:51.205 received thing I'd ever done on stage. 0:42:51.925 --> 0:42:54.205 And suddenly stories that I. 0:42:55.765 --> 0:42:58.085 Suspected they were interesting because I knew they had liked, 0:42:58.525 --> 0:43:00.645 you know, funny moments of them and interesting moments and 0:43:00.685 --> 0:43:04.005 sad moments, but I hadn't quite appreciated that, outside of 0:43:04.005 --> 0:43:06.565 the medical bubble that I lived in, how much people 0:43:06.645 --> 0:43:10.285 would would be into this these first And I think 0:43:10.325 --> 0:43:15.285 it probably applies to Melbourne as well. It's often the 0:43:15.325 --> 0:43:17.245 only chance you get to see your old mates who 0:43:17.325 --> 0:43:20.085 do comedy because if you're like you know, if you're 0:43:20.085 --> 0:43:23.365 a touring comedian, you're sort of or a TV comedian 0:43:23.445 --> 0:43:26.885 or whatever that's fairly solitary. You don't hang out with 0:43:26.965 --> 0:43:29.405 huge numbers of other comedians, but this is the AGM, 0:43:29.525 --> 0:43:31.045 and you will hang out in one place. And so 0:43:31.645 --> 0:43:33.725 you go and see your mate shows, they see your shows. 0:43:33.925 --> 0:43:36.925 There's a friend of mine, brilliant comedian called Mark Watson 0:43:36.965 --> 0:43:40.285 who I know, who know tours in Australia, brilliant and 0:43:40.325 --> 0:43:42.285 I went to see his show here my show. His 0:43:42.445 --> 0:43:46.605 plus one at my show was his editor for the 0:43:46.645 --> 0:43:52.605 books you write. He's a brilliant author. And Francesca, his editor, 0:43:52.645 --> 0:43:55.125 said to me, after, how many more of these diaries 0:43:55.165 --> 0:43:56.885 have you got, because I'm pretty sure there's a book 0:43:56.885 --> 0:44:00.205 in there. And she was right there and there was 0:44:00.245 --> 0:44:03.845 and that was there, and that was a pivotal moment 0:44:03.885 --> 0:44:07.165 in my in my life, totally changed my life. 0:44:07.205 --> 0:44:08.445 And so I. 0:44:08.365 --> 0:44:12.805 Still write and perform full time, but now I get 0:44:12.845 --> 0:44:15.525 to choose the projects that I write, which is the 0:44:16.565 --> 0:44:20.205 single hugest privilege as a as a writer. 0:44:21.365 --> 0:44:26.005 Well, because you brought a world to people that I 0:44:26.445 --> 0:44:31.405 that appeals to everybody universally really, because either it's people 0:44:31.445 --> 0:44:33.805 who have got your experience, like you said, the doctors, 0:44:33.845 --> 0:44:37.925 the nurses, or it's people like us who have walked 0:44:38.085 --> 0:44:40.765 in to see a doctor who have had our babies delivered. 0:44:40.805 --> 0:44:45.045 Whatever it may be, there's no one that's untouched by 0:44:45.685 --> 0:44:47.645 the experience that you brought to people. 0:44:49.365 --> 0:44:53.285 Yeah, I think everyone's got everyone's got an inn and 0:44:54.045 --> 0:44:59.325 hospitals can be quite miserable, scary, difficult places that aren't 0:44:59.365 --> 0:45:02.005 laced with great memories, and so I think there is 0:45:02.045 --> 0:45:06.525 something about then the like a side of it. Plus 0:45:06.525 --> 0:45:10.485 obviously hearing lots of discussing stories, objects and orifices. 0:45:11.285 --> 0:45:14.645 Well, yes, of course there's always there's there's always dessert 0:45:14.925 --> 0:45:19.845 after the mara course. But you know you were saying 0:45:19.925 --> 0:45:22.965 when you first started writing, and you weren't you were 0:45:23.005 --> 0:45:25.805 earning even less than you were in medicine. Now a 0:45:25.845 --> 0:45:28.045 lot of us have got this idea about doctors that 0:45:28.085 --> 0:45:30.685 they're incredibly well paid and they've got a holiday house 0:45:30.725 --> 0:45:34.045 and a Lala and they're driving European cars whatever. I 0:45:34.165 --> 0:45:38.285 was so shocked to read. I think you worked it 0:45:38.325 --> 0:45:40.805 out that you were earning like six quid to something 0:45:40.805 --> 0:45:42.045 an hour as a doctor. 0:45:42.085 --> 0:45:45.005 I was never paid badly, but you just had to 0:45:45.005 --> 0:45:47.565 work a huge number of hours in order to guess that. 0:45:47.845 --> 0:45:50.565 And I remember doing the sun and working out at 0:45:50.565 --> 0:45:53.885 one hospital that I was earning less per hour for 0:45:53.965 --> 0:45:57.405 my shifts than the parking meter I could see outside 0:45:57.485 --> 0:46:02.485 the window was earning for Beata chuck In to come 0:46:02.485 --> 0:46:05.405 and come and see us. You'd be hard pushed to 0:46:05.445 --> 0:46:09.045 think that it's a job that people would do for 0:46:09.125 --> 0:46:13.085 them money. There are a lot more efficient ways of 0:46:13.165 --> 0:46:16.805 turning your straight a's and your exams into cold hard 0:46:16.885 --> 0:46:19.925 cash than going via six years of medical school then 0:46:20.445 --> 0:46:21.805 teen years on the wards. 0:46:21.485 --> 0:46:23.085 To make your way up to the top. 0:46:23.165 --> 0:46:25.485 Because it's only when you hit the top of the 0:46:25.525 --> 0:46:28.605 tree and you know you're a consultant that you. 0:46:28.565 --> 0:46:29.525 Have the opportunity. 0:46:29.845 --> 0:46:32.445 I mean, there are lots of doctors who earn a 0:46:32.605 --> 0:46:37.925 very very very good wage, but I don't think any 0:46:38.045 --> 0:46:42.165 of them are people who don't have to work hard. 0:46:42.285 --> 0:46:45.485 I don't know certainly in the UK, if you want 0:46:45.685 --> 0:46:47.885 the doctors who earn the big money, who have the 0:46:47.885 --> 0:46:51.445 second homes and have the fancy cars, are people who 0:46:51.805 --> 0:46:56.045 do their NHS job and then spend their evenings and 0:46:56.085 --> 0:47:00.045 weekends doing private medicine. For some reason, over the last 0:47:00.045 --> 0:47:02.605 few years, there's been a lot of anti doctor sentiment 0:47:03.165 --> 0:47:07.645 in the UK media, like you have to wait two 0:47:07.685 --> 0:47:10.925 months to see your GP ther appointments only eight minutes. 0:47:11.285 --> 0:47:14.045 We're being told these mean gps. 0:47:14.085 --> 0:47:17.405 Who are They've all got five helicopters each and in 0:47:17.645 --> 0:47:20.285 a house in Hawaii. They're not the people who are 0:47:20.285 --> 0:47:22.685 to blame that you have to wait this length of time. 0:47:23.205 --> 0:47:26.365 The people to blame are the people who aren't employing 0:47:26.605 --> 0:47:29.805 enough gps. Because these gps work as hard as they can, 0:47:31.005 --> 0:47:33.405 and I know loads of my friends are GPS, as 0:47:33.445 --> 0:47:36.045 my family GPS. It's heartbreaking for them how long these 0:47:36.285 --> 0:47:41.685 waiting lists are. But the problem is there aren't enough 0:47:41.725 --> 0:47:44.965 of them, and the governments should be should be investing 0:47:45.205 --> 0:47:48.165 the resources to give people the you know what they need, 0:47:48.285 --> 0:47:52.405 rather than you know what are essentially client media of 0:47:52.525 --> 0:47:55.765 the government blaming the doctors. And a very easy thing 0:47:55.765 --> 0:47:58.125 for them to say is look at this doctor who's 0:47:58.125 --> 0:47:58.845 got a ferrari. 0:47:59.565 --> 0:48:03.285 When they decided or they or you decided to make 0:48:03.365 --> 0:48:08.125 a series of your book, which is on STAN, the 0:48:08.165 --> 0:48:11.365 streaming service STAN in Australia here and a Canadian might 0:48:11.405 --> 0:48:13.885 of mind said it's one of the best series he's 0:48:13.925 --> 0:48:18.125 ever seen. Oh wow, how much say did you have 0:48:18.245 --> 0:48:19.805 in the casting of yourself? 0:48:20.645 --> 0:48:22.845 I had a lot of say. 0:48:23.365 --> 0:48:30.205 I was very and basically everyone was agreed that there 0:48:30.285 --> 0:48:32.765 was sort of only one person who could play it, 0:48:32.845 --> 0:48:36.445 and we've been talking about Ben Wishaw from the very 0:48:36.845 --> 0:48:39.325 It's so weird having this discussion. It's like one of 0:48:39.325 --> 0:48:41.685 these standard dinner party questions who would play you in 0:48:41.765 --> 0:48:42.605 a thing of your life? 0:48:42.765 --> 0:48:43.765 And then we're sitting. 0:48:43.485 --> 0:48:45.045 Around the table and was like, well, it's got to 0:48:45.045 --> 0:48:47.365 be by and so all our eggs were in that 0:48:47.405 --> 0:48:49.325 basket and we were like, well, this is a bit 0:48:49.365 --> 0:48:51.925 stressful because I hadn't finished the script yet. I hadn't 0:48:52.045 --> 0:48:54.205 finished I wasn't ready to take it to him yet. 0:48:54.565 --> 0:48:57.965 But so we brought on this an amazing casting director 0:48:58.205 --> 0:49:00.045 because there's obviously we needed one for all the other 0:49:00.605 --> 0:49:04.005 tons of parts. Brought on the amazing Nina Gold whose 0:49:05.005 --> 0:49:08.925 loads of Bafter winning shows in the past, and and 0:49:08.965 --> 0:49:11.565 we're like, okay, so first question, who's the short. 0:49:11.325 --> 0:49:13.765 List for this part? And she was like, well, it's 0:49:13.765 --> 0:49:15.085 got to be Ben wish or doesn't it. 0:49:15.125 --> 0:49:17.845 So anyway, that was a lot of pressure, but luckily 0:49:18.165 --> 0:49:22.925 he loved the script, he agreed, he agreed, and we 0:49:23.285 --> 0:49:25.885 sat down for a nice lunch and by the end 0:49:25.925 --> 0:49:28.725 of it, he was on board. And I'm so glad 0:49:28.765 --> 0:49:32.645 he was because he is the most fantastic actor. The 0:49:32.685 --> 0:49:34.725 way he can do the comedy and the drama. 0:49:35.365 --> 0:49:36.325 It's a bit like you. 0:49:37.405 --> 0:49:41.725 Well, no portrayal of a health service can be just 0:49:41.805 --> 0:49:42.925 comedy or just drama. 0:49:43.165 --> 0:49:46.085 That won't be a fair reflection of what it is. 0:49:46.125 --> 0:49:49.605 It has to have a bit of both, and he 0:49:49.725 --> 0:49:50.805 can do them both so well. 0:49:50.845 --> 0:49:53.245 And also he's such a sympathetic character. 0:49:53.565 --> 0:49:56.605 I wrote the tele version of me very different to 0:49:56.725 --> 0:49:59.765 real me because if I'd have just written some sort 0:49:59.805 --> 0:50:03.925 of like superhero, you know, brilliant, lovely doctor, that's not 0:50:04.005 --> 0:50:06.325 a drama that's not enjoyable to what I wanted to 0:50:06.445 --> 0:50:08.525 show someone who's a bit of an asshole. 0:50:08.845 --> 0:50:10.885 Who was you know, you could see why he was 0:50:11.005 --> 0:50:11.685 like that because. 0:50:11.485 --> 0:50:14.285 The pressures on him, but ultimately wasn't very well behaved, 0:50:14.925 --> 0:50:20.005 and he played that with such I don't know, with 0:50:20.125 --> 0:50:23.165 such charm that I don't think he sort of ended 0:50:23.245 --> 0:50:26.045 up being haterable and in the wrong hands he could 0:50:26.045 --> 0:50:27.765 have been. And the other thing to say about Ben 0:50:28.005 --> 0:50:30.405 is I know an awful lot of actors, and I've 0:50:30.445 --> 0:50:33.205 worked with a lot of them. You normally have to 0:50:33.325 --> 0:50:36.365 choose between having a good actor or a nice actor, 0:50:36.805 --> 0:50:39.725 and Ben is one of the relatively shortness who is 0:50:39.765 --> 0:50:41.165 both very good and very nice. 0:50:41.765 --> 0:50:45.805 Good on you, Ben, I wanted to ask if you 0:50:45.845 --> 0:50:49.125 could tell the story as a result of the series, 0:50:49.165 --> 0:50:51.805 you know how we were saying that that things have 0:50:52.445 --> 0:50:54.365 kind of changed, or you've brought a lot of stuff 0:50:54.405 --> 0:50:57.765 to public attention, if you could share the story of 0:50:57.925 --> 0:50:59.925 the tree that was planted. 0:51:00.405 --> 0:51:01.125 Oh of course. 0:51:01.485 --> 0:51:05.325 So as well as the character being different in this series, 0:51:05.845 --> 0:51:10.005 to real me, the storyline of the series couldn't. 0:51:09.725 --> 0:51:12.325 Just be, you know, directly of my what's in the 0:51:12.525 --> 0:51:12.965 in the book. 0:51:13.005 --> 0:51:15.365 And I decided, when trying to turn this into it 0:51:15.605 --> 0:51:18.925 like an arc over a full series, that I wanted 0:51:19.005 --> 0:51:21.085 to focus on the mental health of. 0:51:22.565 --> 0:51:24.245 Doctors. And it's you know, a bit of a. 0:51:24.245 --> 0:51:28.805 Spoiler to say that it's it's a storyline that it's 0:51:28.845 --> 0:51:33.205 around suicide of healthcare professionals, which is a very big problem, 0:51:33.725 --> 0:51:37.365 not just the UK, but but worldwide. And at the 0:51:37.485 --> 0:51:40.805 end of the series, there's a memorial scene where a 0:51:40.925 --> 0:51:43.645 tree is planted outside the hospital and a plaque goes 0:51:43.685 --> 0:51:47.165 in the ground. And we shot the exteriors of the 0:51:47.605 --> 0:51:50.245 of the series. The interiors were in a studio, but 0:51:50.245 --> 0:51:52.205 the extraors were in a real hospital in West London, 0:51:52.285 --> 0:51:56.525 ealing Hospital, and I had a whole load of messages 0:51:56.605 --> 0:51:59.605 on social media afterwards and people getting in touch with 0:51:59.725 --> 0:52:02.565 the production company or the TV station or whatever to 0:52:02.725 --> 0:52:06.245 say that they'd looked round the grounds, they'd recognized the 0:52:06.285 --> 0:52:08.125 HOFB and looked for the for the tree, and then 0:52:08.165 --> 0:52:10.365 they realized that it was just a just a proper 0:52:10.365 --> 0:52:13.205 and I felt silly, and I got in touch with 0:52:13.285 --> 0:52:17.165 the charity, UK based charity called Doctors in Distress. I'm 0:52:17.485 --> 0:52:21.205 proud to be a patron of who exists to decrease 0:52:21.565 --> 0:52:23.565 suicides amongst healthcare professionals. 0:52:24.085 --> 0:52:26.925 Which is it an epidemic? It's an epidemic, isn't it. 0:52:28.365 --> 0:52:33.805 The numbers are unthinkable, so UK numbers. But in the UK, 0:52:34.925 --> 0:52:37.645 every three weeks one doctor takes their own life. In 0:52:37.725 --> 0:52:40.725 the UK, every single week, one nurse takes their own life. 0:52:40.725 --> 0:52:43.845 And that's just two of the huge jigsaw of professions. 0:52:43.885 --> 0:52:47.285 And I know, you know, having toured in Australia previously, 0:52:47.365 --> 0:52:50.965 coming coming back again shortly, and I've talked to you know, 0:52:51.045 --> 0:52:55.205 if your numbers are equally shocking, you know, it's one 0:52:55.245 --> 0:52:59.765 of the single biggest risks you can have for a 0:52:59.845 --> 0:53:04.925 suicide rate is working one of these professions in Australia. 0:53:05.005 --> 0:53:08.325 And so anyway, this charity Doctors in Distress, said that 0:53:08.525 --> 0:53:11.445 there was no more memorial in the UK to healthcare 0:53:11.485 --> 0:53:14.845 staff we've lost their life to suicide because of stigma 0:53:15.005 --> 0:53:17.965 and shame and taboo. This thing that I think should 0:53:18.005 --> 0:53:20.605 be like a it's a national scandal, it should be 0:53:20.645 --> 0:53:22.685 a headline every time that happens. Every time just gets 0:53:22.725 --> 0:53:25.565 brushed under the carpet. So I got back in touch 0:53:25.605 --> 0:53:28.085 with ealing hospital and said can we come back and 0:53:28.205 --> 0:53:32.565 can we plant a tree that will stay there? And 0:53:33.685 --> 0:53:37.885 they said yes very kindly, and that became the first 0:53:37.925 --> 0:53:41.365 ever memorial in the UK to healthcare staff we've lost 0:53:41.405 --> 0:53:44.165 their lives in this way. And since then we've been 0:53:44.205 --> 0:53:48.485 around another couple of dozen hospitals, plants a couple of 0:53:48.605 --> 0:53:51.125 dozen trees, and I mean, it's not going to do 0:53:51.205 --> 0:53:53.565 anything in and of itself, it's just a tree. But 0:53:53.725 --> 0:53:56.525 I think it potentially does two things. So it's a 0:53:56.645 --> 0:53:59.045 memorial to people who must never be forgotten. That's a 0:53:59.125 --> 0:54:05.725 very important thing. But secondly, surely the first step in 0:54:05.885 --> 0:54:09.045 resolving a problem, whatever it is, has to be admitting 0:54:09.085 --> 0:54:12.725 that the problem even exists in the in the first place, 0:54:12.845 --> 0:54:16.805 and I think hopefully this goes some way towards achieving 0:54:16.885 --> 0:54:19.725 that because this is a this is an issue that 0:54:20.965 --> 0:54:23.405 isn't talked about by the profession. 0:54:23.405 --> 0:54:24.045 And it needs to be. 0:54:24.885 --> 0:54:29.005 Adam Kay, thank you for sharing yourself with us on 0:54:29.125 --> 0:54:29.565 no filter. 0:54:29.885 --> 0:54:30.605 Thanks for having me. 0:54:31.405 --> 0:54:36.085 Is laughter the best medicine or medicine. 0:54:37.285 --> 0:54:42.645 Medicine is the best medicine. But laughter is very important. 0:54:42.965 --> 0:54:47.165 And I love writing books and I love hearing the 0:54:47.205 --> 0:54:51.285 people who've enjoyed it. But I also love getting back 0:54:51.365 --> 0:54:56.845 to my to my roots and getting on stage because 0:54:56.925 --> 0:55:02.325 then the laughter comes immediately. I'm dead excited about coming 0:55:02.405 --> 0:55:05.845 back to Australia with this is going to hurt, which 0:55:05.925 --> 0:55:08.245 is happening shortly. And I'll tell you the best thing 0:55:08.285 --> 0:55:11.125 about it for me, it's not actually I lied then. 0:55:11.165 --> 0:55:13.365 It's not actually the bit on stage. It's the bit 0:55:13.485 --> 0:55:16.045 afterwards where I sit in that sit at a desk 0:55:16.085 --> 0:55:17.845 and people have brought their books along and or buy 0:55:17.925 --> 0:55:21.125 books or whatever, and I sign I signed copies and 0:55:21.165 --> 0:55:23.565 actually get to speak to people who've got their own 0:55:23.685 --> 0:55:27.085 stories from working in these environments or being a patient, 0:55:27.885 --> 0:55:30.725 and a very weird thing that's happened in the last 0:55:30.925 --> 0:55:33.405 year or so, and that this won't happen on tour 0:55:33.445 --> 0:55:36.845 in Australia. But it's happened. It's happened quite a few 0:55:36.885 --> 0:55:39.245 times in the UK, and three times now that i've 0:55:40.205 --> 0:55:42.045 I've say, who can I sign this to it? And 0:55:42.085 --> 0:55:45.165 they tell me, and they said, and point to their 0:55:45.245 --> 0:55:46.725 sort of teenager with them and say, you're not going 0:55:46.765 --> 0:55:49.925 to remember this person, but you delivered them seventeen years ago. 0:55:50.605 --> 0:55:55.525 So I've now I'm now in the amazing situation. It's 0:55:55.565 --> 0:55:58.125 a great business model. Actually, is it delivering your own. 0:55:58.645 --> 0:56:00.885 Your own audience, you're an audience. 0:56:01.005 --> 0:56:05.125 Yeah, so definitely Penicillin et cetera best medicine. But laughter 0:56:05.365 --> 0:56:08.805 is a very important way to decompress. And I suspect 0:56:09.365 --> 0:56:13.725 if it wasn't for laughter, that be a lot fewer 0:56:13.765 --> 0:56:15.125 people working on their wards. 0:56:15.725 --> 0:56:18.925 Thanks Adam, kay, we look forward to seeing you in Australia. 0:56:19.205 --> 0:56:20.485 Thank you for having me. I can't wait. 0:56:24.445 --> 0:56:29.205 Oh. I love how honest Adam is. His willingness to 0:56:29.365 --> 0:56:34.845 lay everything there has not only sparked important conversations, but 0:56:35.005 --> 0:56:38.965 has even led to meaningful changes in how we and 0:56:39.165 --> 0:56:42.885 in the UK they think about the healthcare system. If 0:56:42.925 --> 0:56:45.445 you want to hear more from Adam, he's currently touring 0:56:45.485 --> 0:56:48.965 Australia with his stand up show, a performance that, much 0:56:49.165 --> 0:56:53.565 like his book, balances comedy and tragedy in equal measure. 0:56:54.325 --> 0:56:58.845 It's raw, it's hilarious, it's really moving. It's a glimpse 0:56:58.885 --> 0:57:02.645 into the realities of medicine, told with his signature wit 0:57:03.325 --> 0:57:05.525 with included links in the show notes so you can 0:57:05.565 --> 0:57:09.565 grab tickets and experience it for yourself. The executiveget user 0:57:09.645 --> 0:57:13.805 of No Filter is Nama Brown. Senior producer is Grace Ruvre. 0:57:14.405 --> 0:57:17.645 Sound design is by Jacob Brown and I am your 0:57:17.725 --> 0:57:20.805 host Kate lane Brook. Back with you next week.