Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma mer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: mom Mire out Loud. It's Wednesday, the twenty ninth of May.
Speaker 2: And I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm.
Speaker 3: Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today, did you see that video
Speaker 2: of the woman running the half marathon and her husband
Speaker 2: ushered their kids into her path just when she was
Speaker 2: about to win. Yes, you did, and everything you think
Speaker 2: about that video is wrong. Sorry about that. Also, Generation
Speaker 2: Alpha have entered the chat and everything's skippity toilet and
Speaker 2: not feeling it today. Perhaps it's time for some unhappiness leave.
Speaker 2: But first, Jesse.
Speaker 3: Today, doctor Christos Christo, who is the president of Doctors
Speaker 3: Without Borders, said on ABC Radio National that he has
Speaker 3: run out of words to describe the horrors of the
Speaker 3: situation in Gaza. This week, a deadly air stra in
Speaker 3: the area of Rafa in southern Gaza killed at least
Speaker 3: forty five Palestinians and wounded dozens of others. This is
Speaker 3: a place that the Israel Defense Force had declared safe.
Speaker 3: It is where Palestinians have fled as Israel forces continue
Speaker 3: their offensive. Just last week, the International Court of Justice
Speaker 3: ordered Israel to halt its military operation in Rafa, noting
Speaker 3: the immense risk to the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians
Speaker 3: taking shelter there with nowhere to go. The international community,
Speaker 3: from President Joe Biden to French Prime Minister Emmanuel Macron,
Speaker 3: to our own Foreign Minister Penniwong, who said do not
Speaker 3: go down this path, all foresaw what was going to
Speaker 3: happen in Ruffa. So what did happen? Palestinians were sheltering intents,
Speaker 3: seeking refuge from the bombardment they have faced for seven
Speaker 3: months now, and according to the mayor of Ruffa, the
Speaker 3: IDF launched more than seven missiles which killed men, women
Speaker 3: and children. These civiliansans were killed in ways I do
Speaker 3: not wish to detail. The horrors are too much to bear.
Speaker 3: The last hospital in Rafa is on the brink of
Speaker 3: no longer functioning, so there were few services to treat burns.
Speaker 3: Displaced people dug through the rubble in an attempt to
Speaker 3: find the bodies of their families, of their babies. Then
Speaker 3: came the international condemnation. This is what Foreign Minister Penny
Speaker 3: Wong said in the Senate.
Speaker 4: May recall that the Prime Minister and I have both
Speaker 4: said in relation to Rafa, our message to the Metayahoo
Speaker 4: government do not go down this path. The international community
Speaker 4: has been one on this. What we have seen in
Speaker 4: the past twenty four hours reinforces why we and the
Speaker 4: international community issued this warning. The death and destruction in
Speaker 4: Rafa is horrific. This human suffering is unacceptable, and we
Speaker 4: reiterate to the government of Israel this cannot continue.
Speaker 3: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netnia, who has referred to what
Speaker 3: happened as a tragic mishap, and yet emerging reports indicate
Speaker 3: that such an attack has happened again, with twenty one
Speaker 3: people killed by an alleged Israeli air strike in a
Speaker 3: so called safe area. Thirteen are believed to be women
Speaker 3: and children. This rhetoric of a tragic mishap is something
Speaker 3: we have heard again and again. We spoke a few
Speaker 3: months ago about a six year old girl. There was
Speaker 3: audio of her calling for emergency aid after she had
Speaker 3: fled with her family, all of whom had been killed
Speaker 3: by an Israeli Army tank who shot at their vehicle.
Speaker 3: The call then went silent and Hindra Jab was also killed.
Speaker 3: Australian journalist Jan Fran has shared a series of these
Speaker 3: so called mistakes from the Israeli military, admitting it was
Speaker 3: a mistake killing aid workers, Palestinian civilians walking down the street,
Speaker 3: a four year old girl, journalists, three Israeli hostages. We
Speaker 3: have watched as maternity hospitals have been destroyed, Premature babies
Speaker 3: died at Alshifa Hospital. I mean, the list goes on.
Speaker 3: The anger and distress in the atmosphere right now is palpable.
Speaker 3: Following world to there were peace treaties and the UN
Speaker 3: was formed and the Geneva Conventions set up laws of war.
Speaker 3: And to sit inside our homes today and watch as
Speaker 3: displaced people are killed, this is the stuff of nightmares.
Speaker 1: Holly.
Speaker 3: There was even a shift at the ICC last week,
Speaker 3: Wasn't there There was?
Speaker 2: So that's the International Criminal Court, right, And what they
Speaker 2: do is they investigate and lay charges on major issues
Speaker 2: of international concern, right, so think major acts of terrorism,
Speaker 2: war crimes and what they call crimes against humanity and
Speaker 2: what they did last week, and it actually shocked a
Speaker 2: lot of people because everybody's been watching this conflict rage
Speaker 2: now for seven months, and every now and again things
Speaker 2: get so horrific as they have this week that it
Speaker 2: sort of spikes through all the other news stories around
Speaker 2: all other kinds of consciousness, and everybody saying, how can
Speaker 2: this still be happening? And how can nobody be stopping it?
Speaker 1: And a lot of.
Speaker 2: Levers have been pulled to try to bring around a
Speaker 2: ceasefire and to try and stop it, and one of
Speaker 2: them was what the International Criminal Court did. So after
Speaker 2: an investigation last week, they issued warrants so literally like
Speaker 2: warrants for arrest. I mean, it's a little more complicated
Speaker 2: than that, but that's kind of how it works. For
Speaker 2: three Hamas leaders in Gaza and Qatar over October the seventh.
Speaker 2: The charges that they laid for the crimes that they
Speaker 2: want those three people arrested on are crimes against humanity,
Speaker 2: including extermination, murder, hostage taking, rape and torture. The thing
Speaker 2: that shocked a lot of people is they also charged
Speaker 2: Netanyahu and his defense minister, a guy called Yohav Galant.
Speaker 2: They charged them with crimes that include the starvation of
Speaker 2: civilians of a weapon of war, murder, extermination, and intentional
Speaker 2: attacks on civilians. Obviously, it's international law and its complex,
Speaker 2: but in theory there's sort of a warrant out for
Speaker 2: Netanyahu and these other people that if he entered a
Speaker 2: member state of the ICC, like the UK, for example,
Speaker 2: he would have to be arrested. There was a lot
Speaker 2: of fury about that in Israel because they were saying,
Speaker 2: this is false equivalence. You're putting us in the same
Speaker 2: bucket as the terrorist organization HAMSS. That's not actually true
Speaker 2: because the charges are different, the charges are separate. What
Speaker 2: the International Criminal Court was trying to do is pull
Speaker 2: one of these levers to kind of get I mean
Speaker 2: a really flippant way of saying, is like the grown
Speaker 2: ups in the room, to take this more and more seriously.
Speaker 2: And it felt like some sympathy was swinging to Netanyahu then,
Speaker 2: because a lot of people who have any skin in
Speaker 2: the game were saying, come on, you can't do that.
Speaker 2: What's happened in Rougher this week has upended all that
Speaker 2: again because the ICC and the ICJ, and the ICJ
Speaker 2: is like a court that deals with states and the
Speaker 2: ICC deals with individuals. But either way, they're trying to
Speaker 2: step in and say we're laying charges we're doing all
Speaker 2: these different things. There are emotions being passed at the
Speaker 2: un and nothing is working. And I think for a
Speaker 2: lot of people, and I would say maybe particularly young
Speaker 2: people who are kind of watching all this happen and
Speaker 2: getting to grips with how the world works, They're like,
Speaker 2: how can I be seeing this unrelenting horror on my phone,
Speaker 2: on my TV constantly in my life and nobody is
Speaker 2: stepping in to stop it.
Speaker 3: We're hearing out louders say that this has fundamentally changed them.
Speaker 3: I really agree with that assessment. I think seeing some
Speaker 3: of the images, hearing the stories, the sense that there
Speaker 3: is no world order that you can do this after
Speaker 3: the horrors of the twentieth century, that this can be
Speaker 3: done by a country that, as you say, is allied
Speaker 3: with the West is very hard to reconcile. I don't
Speaker 3: think that any of us can grasp the despair of
Speaker 3: living in Palestine right now, what that must be like.
Speaker 5: When you go on social media, it's very different when
Speaker 5: you're talking to people in real life. When you're talking
Speaker 5: to people in real life, the mood is grief and
Speaker 5: devastation and shock and despair and all of those things.
Speaker 5: On social media. There is a huge amount of anger,
Speaker 5: and I also understand that. I understand that when people
Speaker 5: feel helpless and they feel devastated and they're grieving, anger
Speaker 5: is on. It's a very normal human reaction to what
Speaker 5: we're seeing. But it can also fool you into believing
Speaker 5: that you are doing something with your anger. And I'm
Speaker 5: not saying there's not a place for anger or that anger.
Speaker 1: Is not appropriate.
Speaker 5: At the outrageous things that we're seeing in the devastating.
Speaker 3: Footage, I don't think we know where to put it.
Speaker 1: No, it's like, what do we do with this?
Speaker 5: What do we do with these images? Is sharing them
Speaker 5: going to help? How is it going to help?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 5: What can we in Australia do.
Speaker 3: I've thought about this a lot, and I've had some
Speaker 3: really productive conversations about putting pressure on politicians. There's a
Speaker 3: little bit of a lack of transparency about weapon manufacturing
Speaker 3: and how much Australia has to do with that, and
Speaker 3: I think that's something that's important. I think Australia pulling
Speaker 3: every lever that they can is something that when you
Speaker 3: get a ground swell of you know, I mean, and
Speaker 3: protest is demonstrating like not in our name. This is
Speaker 3: not something that any of us. Yeah, and important, you.
Speaker 5: Know, I have to say as a Jewish woman, there's
Speaker 5: this idea among some people that if you're Jewish, or
Speaker 5: if you believe in the right of Israel to exist,
Speaker 5: or if you object to people saying from the River
Speaker 5: to the sea, you don't care that you are not
Speaker 5: affected by these images, that you are fine with what's
Speaker 5: happening in Rafa, or that you cheer it on, or
Speaker 5: good God. And I just find that so extraordinary and bizarre,
Speaker 5: the idea that you could only be allowed to care
Speaker 5: about one group of people and about one type of suffering,
Speaker 5: and the suffering of only certain.
Speaker 1: People but not other people.
Speaker 5: I've been deeply shocked by that. I've never seen a
Speaker 5: story like that. And of course, you know, there was
Speaker 5: a poll that came out last week that said something
Speaker 5: like seventy five of Australians have empathy for both Palestinians
Speaker 5: and Israelis because they can see that is Israeli people
Speaker 5: and what happened on October seventh is not the same
Speaker 5: as what the Israeli government is doing and what has
Speaker 5: happened in Rafa. I don't know anyone who's watching what's
Speaker 5: happening in Rafa, no matter what their religion and what
Speaker 5: their belief about Israel, and is not devastated by it.
Speaker 2: There's no one braver in my mind than the AID workers,
Speaker 2: the organizations who are continuing to try and get some
Speaker 2: practical help on the ground, which can be.
Speaker 3: As we've seen, it's a lethal decisions.
Speaker 2: One of the stories I found very affecting but had
Speaker 2: a kind of almost hopeful turn this week was actually
Speaker 2: about the problems of getting aids through in some instances,
Speaker 2: because one of the crossings that's recently been opened for
Speaker 2: AID convoys on the West Bank in Israel was getting
Speaker 2: attacked by extremists who are runsacking and burning the AID
Speaker 2: trucks to try and stop the AID from getting through,
Speaker 2: which is devastating right. But then an organization of mostly
Speaker 2: young Jewish and Arab peace activists have formed a humanitarian
Speaker 2: guard there to get there to stop those abhorrent attacks
Speaker 2: and get the AID through. They're called Standing Together. I
Speaker 2: urge anyone to follow them on social there. They're remarkable.
Speaker 2: But I just want to say, because it isn't simple.
Speaker 2: We've been talking on this show and providing links to
Speaker 2: AID organizations, it isn't simple because there is no more
Speaker 2: dangerous place in the world right now than Gaza, So
Speaker 2: it is not as simple as send you money and
Speaker 2: someone will get a meal. But there are some unbelievably
Speaker 2: brave organizations. We're going to shout a couple of them
Speaker 2: out and put them in the show notes you mentioned
Speaker 2: before Jesse Doctors without Borders, whose doctors on the ground
Speaker 2: are obviously beyond exhausted and beyond capacity, are working in
Speaker 2: what's left of the hospitals and health organizations all over Gaza.
Speaker 2: There's an incredible organization called the World's Central Kitchen, and
Speaker 2: people might have heard of it because seven of their
Speaker 2: workers were killed in an IDEA strike a few months
Speaker 2: ago and they had to suspend operations and what they
Speaker 2: do and this kind of sounds a bit strange when
Speaker 2: you first hear about it. They're an organization of volunteer
Speaker 2: chefs and they go into war zones all over the
Speaker 2: world and they work with local people and local cooks.
Speaker 5: There.
Speaker 2: They're literally set up camp kitchens. They know exactly how
Speaker 2: to do it, exactly what's needed, you know, massive pots
Speaker 2: sort of the containers that need to go, the sort
Speaker 2: of food local people want, to eat and they cook
Speaker 2: it and they distribute it and they've restarted their operations
Speaker 2: in Gaza now again an incredible organization. Also Plan International,
Speaker 2: which focuses on children, particularly girls, UNICEF, which is the
Speaker 2: un charity that gets aided to kids. We're going to
Speaker 2: put links in the show notes. If you are able
Speaker 2: to make a donation to any of these organizations, then
Speaker 2: I urge you to do so.
Speaker 5: This is a fast moving story, so to keep across
Speaker 5: this news, please tune into our twice daily news podcast,
Speaker 5: The Quickie, for the latest information.
Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: You got that, Ohio, skibbity riz?
Speaker 2: What the sigma?
Speaker 1: What does it mean?
Speaker 2: And why are kids saying it?
Speaker 5: In case you missed it, Generation Alpha, who are people
Speaker 5: younger than fourteen, have made up some new words. Ohio,
Speaker 5: get sigma, rizzler and skibbity toilet.
Speaker 3: I feel like I might know what rizzler means.
Speaker 1: What's rizzler?
Speaker 3: I feel like it could be related to riz, which
Speaker 3: we learned about last year, which is krisma, and we
Speaker 3: all decided I didn't have it, which I still feel
Speaker 3: weter you don't think, but apparently I do have skibberty toilet.
Speaker 5: So I don't know if I'm a rizzler or not.
Speaker 5: Now you may be confused, we all have been. Let's
Speaker 5: just talk about jen Alpha for a while. Examples are
Speaker 5: Blue Ivy, who is the daughter of Beyond Same jay Z,
Speaker 5: Kim Kardashian, and Kanye West's eldest daughter, Northwest.
Speaker 3: I say a lot of her tiktoks.
Speaker 5: As I said, the oldest of this generation of fourteen
Speaker 5: and they were born in the years to twenty ten.
Speaker 5: And kids their age are making trends and creating slang
Speaker 5: terms online.
Speaker 1: We don't know what they mean.
Speaker 5: I just texted my daughter, who is eighteen, skibbity toilet.
Speaker 5: She texted back, what is this? And then she said
Speaker 5: her girlfriend says, you are not woke. Me are just strange.
Speaker 2: I live with two alphas, obviously my kids are alpha's.
Speaker 2: And I asked Matilda yesterday, my daughter, fourteen year old daughter,
Speaker 2: what skibbitty toilet meant? And she was so mortified that
Speaker 2: I even asked the question. She just immediately got on
Speaker 2: her phone and sent a voice note to a front
Speaker 2: This is how they carry on. She got a voice
Speaker 2: note to a friend being like, mom, just asked me,
Speaker 2: and she said, you're not going to say it.
Speaker 1: You're gonna say it on the show? Are you're not
Speaker 1: going to say it?
Speaker 2: And then I asked Billy, who's eleven, and he said,
Speaker 2: it doesn't really mean anything, you just like say it.
Speaker 2: He's just say and I was like, I don't stand.
Speaker 5: How do we explain to them? They don't know how language?
Speaker 5: Were okay, well, not everyone agrees on its meaning.
Speaker 1: It is disputed.
Speaker 5: It originated from the Russian rave band Big.
Speaker 3: See this is the problem are you talking about?
Speaker 1: A remix was made of the song.
Speaker 3: A remix of what by whom?
Speaker 1: Little Big song?
Speaker 5: A remix was made of the song and then repurposed
Speaker 5: on YouTube by the channel de fuck Boom. Okay, okay,
Speaker 5: too many steps toilet in the clip, I'm getting to
Speaker 5: the good part. In the clip, it shows a head
Speaker 5: in a toilet singing a song. It doesn't really mean anything.
Speaker 5: It's just an inside joke.
Speaker 2: Apparently I tried to get them to use it in
Speaker 2: the sentence you.
Speaker 5: Know that I'm going to be saying it constantly and
Speaker 5: they will never use it again. What's my new Kozi lips?
Speaker 5: People say, ohio, and that's sort of short for only
Speaker 5: in Ohio, which means something that's weird or strange or creepy,
Speaker 5: like us using the phrase skippy toilet. So it's an
Speaker 5: insult because Ohio is apparently considered to be a bit
Speaker 5: of a weird place.
Speaker 3: I feels offensive to Ohio and.
Speaker 5: Get or gee it or get get. I don't know
Speaker 5: it means big bottom. Sigma is widely known as the
Speaker 5: a teenth letter of the Green alphabet of It, the
Speaker 5: Greek alphabet, the alphabet that the dead alphas is not
Speaker 5: widely known by me, but whatever. Apparently it means a
Speaker 5: man who is popular and dominant, and they may also
Speaker 5: have traditional values.
Speaker 2: That typical becomes faf as sexist. I think sigma has
Speaker 2: come out of the manisphere. But I think it also means.
Speaker 1: Kind of cool.
Speaker 3: What's an alphabet?
Speaker 2: I don't think sigmas have to be like musty.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right?
Speaker 5: Oh. A rizzler is a derivative of the word charisma,
Speaker 5: but it means someone who is a pro at flirting
Speaker 5: with people or has good game, so it actually has
Speaker 5: sexual connotations more whereas just saying that someone's got riz
Speaker 5: is not about sex, it's about their personality.
Speaker 3: Fourteen none of them have good game. None of them
Speaker 3: are rizzlers. Yeah, they're walking around going skibbty divity toilet
Speaker 3: it not game.
Speaker 2: Okay, I need to clear up another Internet problem for
Speaker 2: you in the middle of this very tumultuous time that
Speaker 2: we're living in. For a few days last week, all
Speaker 2: of the Internet's wrath was directed at one man, and
Speaker 2: he was a Brazilian husband who took his children to
Speaker 2: watch their mother run a race and allowed the kids
Speaker 2: to run onto the road.
Speaker 1: Did you see this? I did this? Poor man got canceled.
Speaker 5: I was very confused because you know when you see
Speaker 5: the Internet's angry about something and you're like, Okay, I
Speaker 5: better get across this. And I'm like, right, so is
Speaker 5: it a heart woman clip about a woman running across
Speaker 5: a finish line? And I'm like, oh no, someone's being canceled.
Speaker 5: It's not a heart woman clip about a woman completing
Speaker 5: a marathon. It's a cancelation clip about a man behaving badly.
Speaker 1: What did he do?
Speaker 2: What he did and what the world thinks he did
Speaker 2: two different things?
Speaker 1: Ll maybe not.
Speaker 2: So reason everybody got upset is because this woman who
Speaker 2: a half marathon is a long way and she'd obviously
Speaker 2: trained very hard and she was winning.
Speaker 1: And just as she.
Speaker 2: Gets to the line, he like ushers the children into
Speaker 2: her path and she swerves around them like she doesn't stop.
Speaker 2: She swerves around them to finish across the world and
Speaker 2: win her marathon.
Speaker 3: Yay, it nearly cost her the first place.
Speaker 2: And everybody said, how typical that that man was so
Speaker 2: overlooking after his own children for an hour and forty minutes.
Speaker 1: It was quite funny because she had to run around them.
Speaker 2: Yes, she like swerved, she went around them like that
Speaker 2: that he couldn't wait to hand them back. And they said,
Speaker 2: this is so typical of a man stepping on a
Speaker 2: woman's achievement. This is da da da da da.
Speaker 1: Right, shut up that.
Speaker 2: Well know, I know, I'm going to defend that in
Speaker 2: a minute. But then what happened is at the weekend,
Speaker 2: the woman and the man came out and she's called
Speaker 2: Luciana Lorenzo and he's called Pedro Lorenzo. And Luciana cleared
Speaker 2: up that what Pedro had done was exactly what she'd
Speaker 2: asked him to do, and that they'd agreed together. She said,
Speaker 2: this was a fun well not a fun run, but
Speaker 2: it was a race in her hometown.
Speaker 1: And nothing fun about him.
Speaker 2: I thought it would be fun for the girls to
Speaker 2: come and see her do it, like how inspirational. But
Speaker 2: the thing is is she didn't think she was going
Speaker 2: to win, right, She just thought she was going to
Speaker 2: run it. And so she said to Pedro, bring the
Speaker 2: girls down stand near the finish line, and when I passed,
Speaker 2: following instruction, the kids can join and we might all
Speaker 2: run over the finish line together. But then what happened
Speaker 2: is Luciana was a much better runner than she even
Speaker 2: thought she was, and she was in first place and
Speaker 2: she was going to win, and then her husband doushed
Speaker 2: the kids in front of her, and she was like,
Speaker 2: get those fuckers out.
Speaker 1: Of the way. I'm gonna win my race.
Speaker 2: So she said, oh. Then when I realized I was
Speaker 2: going to win, I saw the kids and I was like, no,
Speaker 2: can't do family time. Now I'm going to cross the line,
Speaker 2: and she said to the kids, she said, the kids
Speaker 2: were fine and happy and not upset at all.
Speaker 1: They're proud and excited. So that's good.
Speaker 2: But what I want to say is, yes, it's true
Speaker 2: that the Internet got very upset with this man for
Speaker 2: no reason, But why did we all make that assumption.
Speaker 2: I think that's because we've all been there.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is a classic tale of the Internet finding
Speaker 3: something that helps them tell a specific story they would
Speaker 3: like to tell today.
Speaker 4: Yes, and it.
Speaker 3: Actually wasn't about the video and it wasn't about the facts.
Speaker 1: Did the Internet apologize it wasn't about us?
Speaker 3: And you know what I reckon that A really important
Speaker 3: piece of context was the Harrison Butker graduation speech that
Speaker 3: had been just the week before.
Speaker 1: We are in a fainting mood.
Speaker 3: We were rile, we were pissed. We were like, women
Speaker 3: can't have anything even when we graduate. It's just like
Speaker 3: your greatest joy is going to be your kids and
Speaker 3: your husband and being a wife and a mother. And
Speaker 3: then we see a woman running to a finish line
Speaker 3: and it's like the husband and the children descend and
Speaker 3: it's like that woman should kick those people out of
Speaker 3: the way to have her moment of glory.
Speaker 5: It's like, back off, this isn't about you. Yes, that
Speaker 5: was a bit like there are a lot of videos
Speaker 5: when Taylor's we've started her concert about people proposing. During
Speaker 5: the song love story, like you know, marry me Juliet
Speaker 5: is the line, and that was the moment in that
Speaker 5: song that a lot of people dropped to one knee.
Speaker 5: That's if you're going to propose, you're going to do
Speaker 5: it then. And so that's kind of been happening all
Speaker 5: over the tour and a lot of people were really
Speaker 5: pushed back about it. And it started with Taffy Bredessa
Speaker 5: akne amazing piece about being at a Taylor Swift concert
Speaker 5: and she said, and she acknowledged that she was projecting,
Speaker 5: but a lot of Swift he spoke about this that
Speaker 5: she took something that belonged to that woman, which is
Speaker 5: that song meaning something to her? And he imposed himself, honest.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what people thought were happening in this video,
Speaker 2: and they also I think mothers in particular looked at
Speaker 2: it and went, this is like when I just want
Speaker 2: to go to the gym for an hour on a
Speaker 2: Saturday morning and I get all this, when's it my
Speaker 2: turn to have some time off? And it's like when
Speaker 2: you get a promotion and it's all like, what are
Speaker 2: you gonna do about childcare? And when you want to
Speaker 2: go away for a weekend and it's like, well, are
Speaker 2: you going to organize drop off sporting things?
Speaker 1: Who's eating?
Speaker 2: What who's going where like?
Speaker 3: And you're like, I'd like to go for a walk,
Speaker 3: and your husband's like family time. I think your walk
Speaker 3: sound family time.
Speaker 2: Basically, we all projected our shit onto Luciano and Pedro,
Speaker 2: who were actually.
Speaker 5: Doing absolutely fine. Jesseye, I saw you're on the project
Speaker 5: last night. Who was looking after Luna while you were
Speaker 5: gallivanting around?
Speaker 3: Look? I didn't even consider Luna. Oh no, it was
Speaker 3: my husband. Yeah, no, he was babysitting exactly right, So
Speaker 3: that when mummy works it's not a family affair. Luna's
Speaker 3: not invited.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: at the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5: Should all workers get onhappiness leave? That is the headline
Speaker 5: on a Guardian story this week that highlighted the policy
Speaker 5: of a Chinese supermarket chain called Pangdong Lie, whose founder
Speaker 5: is offering all employees up to ten days of unhappiness leave.
Speaker 5: According to the South China Morning Post, You Dong Liae
Speaker 5: said at an industry conference, I want every staff member
Speaker 5: to have freedom. Everyone has times when they're not happy,
Speaker 5: So if you're not happy, do not come to work.
Speaker 5: Staff can take unhappy days when they want, in addition
Speaker 5: to normal sick and holiday leave. Entitlements and management cannot refuse,
Speaker 5: so it is in addition to it is so in
Speaker 5: the olden days, if you wanted to take a day
Speaker 5: off work and you weren't seek you would chuck a SICKI.
Speaker 5: I don't know why you would chuck one. That's very Australian,
Speaker 5: but I love that I chucked many a siki from school.
Speaker 5: Learn how to forge my Mum's signature, work to treat.
Speaker 5: But in twenty twenty four, there is a long list
Speaker 5: of leave that employees can take. There's annual leave and
Speaker 5: sick leave, cares leave, parental leave, compassionate and bereavement leave,
Speaker 5: family and domestic violence leave in some organizations, and if
Speaker 5: you've been somewhere a long time, you can also take
Speaker 5: something called long service leave. Some companies also offer extra
Speaker 5: days for menstrual leave. There are days for gender reassignment leave.
Speaker 5: Of course, there's also parental leave. At Mum and Me
Speaker 5: or we offer a day of birthday leave. It is
Speaker 5: called your Mum and me day on your birthday? But
Speaker 5: would you take unhappiness leave Holly?
Speaker 2: Well, do you have to tell everybody that you're unhappy?
Speaker 2: I have to go?
Speaker 1: I don't like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if I'm really unhappy, I don't really want
Speaker 2: to tell everybody because.
Speaker 3: Then your boss feels obligated to say really unhappy about
Speaker 3: and then you've got to tell them, and they don't care,
Speaker 3: and you don't want to tell them, and then what
Speaker 3: are they going to make you feel better?
Speaker 1: Isn't it just called a mental health day?
Speaker 2: Mental health day or a doner day, or whatever we
Speaker 2: might want to call them. I'm fascinated to know if
Speaker 2: we've evolved past sickies, because now culturally we've embraced the
Speaker 2: idea of self care, we've embraced the idea of fighting burnout,
Speaker 2: We've embraced all those things. So now if you're just like,
Speaker 2: I really need a day, is it okay? Or do
Speaker 2: you still have to do things like we used to
Speaker 2: have to do in the old days where the day
Speaker 2: that you come back after the SICKI you have to try.
Speaker 1: And remember to talk like this for a certain.
Speaker 3: Portion of the day and keep in line what you
Speaker 3: were sick with you can't say, oh, the headache was
Speaker 3: really bad when apparently you're on the toilet all day.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Do some workplaces have a thing where you can't text
Speaker 5: that you're sick, you have to ring?
Speaker 3: Oh the text has saved me many a time.
Speaker 2: Very recently, that was a big debate but seems to
Speaker 2: have been resolved. So do you think that SICKI is dead?
Speaker 2: And therefore it doesn't really matter what you call the leave.
Speaker 2: It's just leave that you can take.
Speaker 3: Well, you have personal slash care as leave, right, So
Speaker 3: if I'm fashioning a text, I will often detail what
Speaker 3: it is. So I've got a really bad cough, can't
Speaker 3: come to work today, whatever. But if you just sent
Speaker 3: a message, if you've received a message as a manager
Speaker 3: and it just said, can't come to work today, see
Speaker 3: you tomorrow, does that sound.
Speaker 1: Do you have to be a reason still rumpy? I
Speaker 1: would be grumpy.
Speaker 2: I don't manage people anymore, but I did for many years,
Speaker 2: And if you just sent me can't come today sorry,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, I need more detail. If you ever
Speaker 2: text me here and say you're sick. She wants a
Speaker 2: lot of detail, and that's not because she wants to
Speaker 2: prove you wrong. It's just because she thinks she's a
Speaker 2: doctor for helpful advice. She will immediately say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: when did it come on? And what do you think
Speaker 2: stand exactly?
Speaker 5: And I also want to know when did you start
Speaker 5: feeling sick and how recently.
Speaker 1: Did I see you.
Speaker 2: Yes, she's very, very germ phobic like that. There's a
Speaker 2: bit of me that loves it and a bit of
Speaker 2: me that hates it. Right, because what we have recognized
Speaker 2: is that rest is important if you want to get
Speaker 2: the best out of people. The idea of work work
Speaker 2: till you fall over. We have kind of moved culturally certainly,
Speaker 2: and I mean, I know this might be a bit generational.
Speaker 2: People have moved past that. They're like, to get the
Speaker 2: best out of your employees and get the best out
Speaker 2: of people, you've got to let them have a bit
Speaker 2: of a break. Sometimes.
Speaker 5: I wust to let my kids have mental health days.
Speaker 2: I know at school, I don't do that.
Speaker 1: Do you believe in it?
Speaker 2: I don't do it. I used to be very strict.
Speaker 2: I was thinking this yesterday because my daughter had a
Speaker 2: day of school yesterday because she wasn't feeling well. And
Speaker 2: I said to brentle my leg a sore.
Speaker 3: Throat, I said to Brent, do you have a sore throat?
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, my leg had to be
Speaker 2: falling off right to be allowed to stay home. No, absolutely, no.
Speaker 2: Sickies weren't tolerated at all in my house. And that's
Speaker 2: because I had two working parents. And obviously, once you
Speaker 2: get to a certain age where you can just be
Speaker 2: home alone, but right up until then, you being is
Speaker 2: a massive problem for them. I remember my mum was
Speaker 2: a teacher through a lot of that time, and I
Speaker 2: sometimes had to go and sit at the back of
Speaker 2: her classroom. I had a lot of memories of that,
Speaker 2: which was punishment enough in itself for you to never
Speaker 2: want to throw a because watching your mom be a
Speaker 2: teacher is kind of mortifying. So I think it's quite
Speaker 2: ingraining me and I don't let them have mental health days,
Speaker 2: but I do that assessment that you do where you go,
Speaker 2: maybe you're not really sick, but you're really tad. Is
Speaker 2: it an important day? What's on today? Will you miss
Speaker 2: anything important?
Speaker 4: Da?
Speaker 1: Da da da?
Speaker 2: And when you've got kids with certain issues, you've got
Speaker 2: a lot of appointments and all those things. So I'm
Speaker 2: not as strict about it as my parents were, but
Speaker 2: I'm strict about it on myself because I think I
Speaker 2: grew up with that ingrained in me and I've never
Speaker 2: in my life just called up and said I'm not
Speaker 2: coming to work today because I'm sad.
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't even do it, could you imagine? Wouldn't
Speaker 1: go down well in Manchester. I couldn't even do it.
Speaker 2: But do I admire it and think that maybe we
Speaker 2: should all like give ourselves because really the thing about this,
Speaker 2: even from a boss's perspective, people is you're had a
Speaker 2: good job, but I know, but you're no good to
Speaker 2: me if you come in here, you're just miserable and
Speaker 2: moping around and not doing anything and hanging around in
Speaker 2: the kitchen winging.
Speaker 3: And like if I'm sad, though, I think I would
Speaker 3: rather be at work and then spend my happy days off,
Speaker 3: Like why would I want to spend my day, my
Speaker 3: sad day at home? It feels like, oh.
Speaker 1: Question, bring it to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing. I did read this incredible article
Speaker 3: in the Guardian and it was all about the idea
Speaker 3: of a life's abatical. So if you're unhappy, don't stop it.
Speaker 3: One day, take a year. So Emma Gannon took a
Speaker 3: year off and she has a new book called The
Speaker 3: Year of Doing Nothing, which is my goal.
Speaker 5: So that's like eat, pray, love, Like it's easy to
Speaker 5: do that. If you get a massive book advance and.
Speaker 3: You just write a book doing last thing.
Speaker 2: It annoys me about those kind of books. I love
Speaker 2: e m Gunn and I'm not criticizing her, but people
Speaker 2: who tell you that they weren't doing anything and they
Speaker 2: were writing a book, mate, you are not helping, Like
Speaker 2: writing a book is a lot of work.
Speaker 1: But I found useful in this.
Speaker 3: It said what you should do right if you want
Speaker 3: to rest, if you're going to throw your unhappiness day
Speaker 3: or if you're going to throw a sickie is rest
Speaker 3: is the opposite to what you do in the office
Speaker 3: all day. So I was saying that if you're a teacher,
Speaker 3: for example, and your job is giving a lot of instructions,
Speaker 3: your day off or your holiday has to involve you
Speaker 3: giving no instructions. So like someone else decides where you're
Speaker 3: going to have dinner, and then like because you have
Speaker 3: sort of decision fatigue. And I think it's the same
Speaker 3: with us. It's like when we recharge because our jobs
Speaker 3: are so much talking and quite social in nature. It's
Speaker 3: like our rest has to look like sitting in a
Speaker 3: dark room bedro rocking back and forth. I thought that
Speaker 3: was very, very true.
Speaker 2: I've got a really good episode of mid coming up
Speaker 2: next week friends about burnout, and that's exactly what the
Speaker 2: author Castro may say says. Rest is relative to everybody.
Speaker 2: Like the idea that rest just means laying on a
Speaker 2: couch is not true if.
Speaker 5: You're all flexing your podcasts and your projects and stuff.
Speaker 5: I this week got up early to go do an
Speaker 5: interview for No Filter, which is my podcast about the
Speaker 5: seven different types of rest.
Speaker 1: And she didn't show up, and I was very tired
Speaker 1: because I got up very was she resting? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I wasn't happy though.
Speaker 5: I wonted did that thing because I had to get
Speaker 5: up early. I woke up all through the night, like
Speaker 5: three o'clock, four o'clock, five o'clock.
Speaker 1: Yep. Should have taken an unhappiness day.
Speaker 3: I should have out louders by now. I really hope
Speaker 3: you've all watched it. The idea of you and Hathaway. Honestly,
Speaker 3: if you're having an unhappiness day. May I suggest watching
Speaker 3: that film on repeat?
Speaker 2: What if the outlouders said that they watched it on
Speaker 2: their dourner day in nash And we.
Speaker 5: Should talk about this at some stage, maybe on a
Speaker 5: different subs episode about the return of digital penetration as
Speaker 5: a sex scene.
Speaker 1: You didn't expect me to say that digital penetration? Did
Speaker 1: I miss the fingering in that film? You did?
Speaker 3: When?
Speaker 1: Did that happen? Also in British? And it's everywhere that
Speaker 1: I look at the moment. It's a trend. Let's do
Speaker 1: a sub episode on fingering out loud as you heard
Speaker 1: any focustomer.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the I'm sorry I say, guys.
Speaker 1: Skibbity toilet.
Speaker 3: Okay. Maa watched it and gave Holly and I homework
Speaker 3: to watch sh and then we had an interesting chat.
Speaker 5: Rely wasn't watching it closely enough because she missed the
Speaker 5: fingering scene?
Speaker 1: Yes, it must have been quick. Okay, I'm.
Speaker 3: That yesterday subscriber episode. If you want to watch it
Speaker 3: all about the idea of you. Here is a sneak peek.
Speaker 2: The idea here right is an interesting one. He's twenty four,
Speaker 2: she's forty he's famous. She's not. But she looks twenty
Speaker 2: four and sher body's like a twenty four year old body.
Speaker 2: So a lot of the tension there. And there is
Speaker 2: a bit of a scene in there where she's supposed
Speaker 2: to feel really self conscious about being in the swimmers
Speaker 2: in front of hot young girls and things, and.
Speaker 3: She stands in front of the mirror and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh no, I'm a victorious secret angel.
Speaker 1: All right, that's it.
Speaker 2: I'm calling time. We're done for today.
Speaker 1: MIA's brought up fingering.
Speaker 2: We all need to go back to our desks.
Speaker 1: We are going to be back in your ears on.
Speaker 2: Friday, when we'll be doing one of our off the
Speaker 2: news episodes and sorting out all your friendship issues and ours,
Speaker 2: especially after that conversation with enormous thanks to our amazing
Speaker 2: team Emmeline Gazillas. The assistant producer of our show is
Speaker 2: Charlie Blackman. We've had audio production from their porges and
Speaker 2: a special thanks to our wonderful brand manager, Carrie Scott Jackson.
Speaker 2: And we'll see you back here on Friday.
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 5: Shout out to any Muma Mia subscribers listening if you
Speaker 5: love the show and want to support us as well.
Speaker 5: Subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to
Speaker 5: do so. There is a link in the episode description