WEBVTT - At 37, Lucy Ormonde Joined A 'Boob Club'

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on.

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<v Speaker 2>We have this perception in the world, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>guilty of it. I think too that there's two paths

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<v Speaker 2>out of cancer, and one is fine and one is dead,

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<v Speaker 2>and we make no room for the stuff in the middle,

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<v Speaker 2>which I've also come to realize that so many people

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<v Speaker 2>are suffering with, but they mostly have to pretend to

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<v Speaker 2>be fine because that's a narrative. We want. That's easier,

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<v Speaker 2>that's nice. How we want things tied up neatly in

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<v Speaker 2>a bow. We want happy endings.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to No Filter. I'm Holly Wainwright, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm jumping into your feed today with a special extra

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<v Speaker 1>episode of No Filter to mark the end of Breast

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<v Speaker 1>Cancer Awareness Month. Now there's something a little bit selfish

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<v Speaker 1>for me about this conversation because it's actually with one

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<v Speaker 1>of my really good friends, Lucy Ormond. I worked with

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<v Speaker 1>Lucy a long time ago. We're going to tell you

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of the story of our friendship actually, and

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<v Speaker 1>we'd stayed in touch, and eighteen months ago everything for

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<v Speaker 1>her changed in her life when she was diagnosed with

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<v Speaker 1>breast cancer. Now what I need you to know about

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<v Speaker 1>Lucy before he listened to this conversation, because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think any woman in Australia hasn't been touched in some

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<v Speaker 1>way by breast cancer. So it's both a very ordinary

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<v Speaker 1>and completely upending, extraordinary experience to go through and even

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<v Speaker 1>to support someone through. And I really wanted Lucy, who

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<v Speaker 1>has been through a great deal over the past couple

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<v Speaker 1>of years, to talk about the things that everybody doesn't know,

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<v Speaker 1>like what's the most useful stuff you can do when

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<v Speaker 1>somebody is right in that heat of finding out that

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<v Speaker 1>everything in their life has shifted in just a few

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<v Speaker 1>words to come out of their doctor's mouth, Why it's

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<v Speaker 1>not over when it's officially over, and what really happens

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<v Speaker 1>to your priority and your life when you go through

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<v Speaker 1>something as profound as this. Lucy is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most generous, loving, also driven, busy, ambitious women I know,

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<v Speaker 1>and she has struggled, like everybody does, through this with

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<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out who she is, what it all means,

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<v Speaker 1>and now, because of who she is, what she can

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<v Speaker 1>do to help other women in the same situation. So

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<v Speaker 1>please join the table with me and Lucy and our

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<v Speaker 1>conversation about breast cancer. I want you all to meet

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<v Speaker 1>my friend Lucy Ormond. Hello, Luce, Hey, Holly Waynwright. That

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<v Speaker 1>is how she always addresses me.

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<v Speaker 2>You know how some people have those names where it

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<v Speaker 2>needs first name and surname. That's you, Hollywayne Wright.

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<v Speaker 1>And Louse. How did we meet?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? We met at Mamma Mia. We did. I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to say twelve years ago. Thirteen, it's billing now, eleven eleven.

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<v Speaker 1>I started at mom and Mia in twenty fourteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's too much maths for me.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, yes, so that's eleven years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>We met a long time ago. Yeah, at Mama Mia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>I had been there maybe a couple of years. It

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<v Speaker 2>was the first ever of Mamma mea officers. I was

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<v Speaker 2>a junior writer and you came in as the fancy

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<v Speaker 2>magazine lady.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was very intimidated by all the cool young

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<v Speaker 1>people who knew what they were doing, Like you not cool.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the early day. This is kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>early days of digital media. It's crazy to think about now.

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<v Speaker 2>It was insane. It was a crazy, amazing, beautiful, wonderful time. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>where you came into this chaos of just a whole

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<v Speaker 2>lot of women, and we sat around a table and

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<v Speaker 2>talked about ideas every day and turned them into content.

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<v Speaker 1>It was great.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a good time.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you left to go and do other things.

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<v Speaker 2>I left to go and do other things. After a while,

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<v Speaker 2>I moved back to Melbourne. I'm from Melbourne. Originally. I

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<v Speaker 2>moved back to Melbourne, worked in the Mama Mea office

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<v Speaker 2>down there for a while, and then eventually it'll be

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<v Speaker 2>my five or six years and just wanted to try

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<v Speaker 2>my hand at other things and made a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a sidestep, still in women's media, but into the events world.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, so tell everyone what you're doing. So we

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<v Speaker 1>and we stayed in touch, right, We did in touch,

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<v Speaker 1>and we would catch up when you'd come to Sydney

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<v Speaker 1>with increasing regularity, and then we'd go and drink wine,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of wine dinner and put the world to

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<v Speaker 1>rights and looses. As anyone would know if they were

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<v Speaker 1>watching this video on YouTube. Is quite a lot younger

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<v Speaker 1>than me. But we because friends. Well, it's true, it's

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<v Speaker 1>called to have different generational friendships. Anyway. We digress is

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<v Speaker 1>just a number. Describe to me where you were the

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<v Speaker 1>life you were living in March twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>March twenty twenty four, it's what are a year and

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<v Speaker 2>a half ago, seems like a lot longer than that.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'd left MoMA MAA or twenty sixteen or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that, gone off and worked for an amazing organization

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<v Speaker 2>called Business Chicks, working in corporate events, women's media, traveling

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<v Speaker 2>the world.

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<v Speaker 1>I was always trying to catch you when she was

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<v Speaker 1>in between. I've been in La, I've been in the Bahamas,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been in this place. In that she was always

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<v Speaker 1>working a lot and traveling a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, working with some phenomenal people, making some really really

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<v Speaker 2>incredible events for women with some really really big known

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<v Speaker 2>like thousands of women in rooms with I can't even

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<v Speaker 2>it was the most phenomenal For years, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't really I mean, your home is always Melbourne and

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<v Speaker 1>always you know, that's where your people are, but you

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<v Speaker 1>weren't really home for several years, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I was totally nomadic, a little bit in Sydney, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot in LA, occasionally coming back to Melbourne, New York, anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Like we were making events around the country. Yeah, it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was fast paced. It sounds glamorous. I mean the

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<v Speaker 2>reality of travel is very, very different. I never spent

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<v Speaker 2>more than a couple of nights in one bed. That

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<v Speaker 2>sounds weird, but you know what I mean. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 2>was a beautiful, beautiful time. COVID changed a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>that obvious. The world came to a standstill and we

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't do events anymore, and that very much changed the business.

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<v Speaker 2>But I found myself sort of just after that. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>started my own business in twenty twenty three and started

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<v Speaker 2>working with a whole lot of amazing women, still in

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<v Speaker 2>that space, but sort of operating on more of a

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<v Speaker 2>contractor freelancer kind of basis and coming in and creating

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<v Speaker 2>events and strategies for some really really cool people. So

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<v Speaker 2>working with Jackie Oh and JM at Bestie's, working with

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<v Speaker 2>Gwyneth Paltrow, we did that event the amazing lea Ye, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I know we didn't get you there. Lee's

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<v Speaker 2>and Sarah are we're creating disco clubs. I helped them.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, you know, back to your question of March

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, are in this beautiful, beautiful, full circle moment.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been contracted back to Mama mea to produce the

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<v Speaker 2>out Loud Tour, So Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, bigger than you'd

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<v Speaker 2>ever done before. We were taking it to the next

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<v Speaker 2>level and got about two thousand women in each city

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<v Speaker 2>living along. And I was just in this really really

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<v Speaker 2>lovely place where back to working with you and MEA

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<v Speaker 2>and I was flying up to Sydney a lot. My

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<v Speaker 2>business was feeling like it was starting to get somewhere,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was sort of happily settled in Melbourne thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about the future. I don't know, it was a really

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<v Speaker 2>nice time in life.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember that we went out for dinner one night

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<v Speaker 1>when you were in Sydney. We went to chester White

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<v Speaker 1>and Pot's Point. We ate some pasta with cheese, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's when you told me that you had something going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I mentioned it, you know, in a night

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<v Speaker 2>where we jumped around to you know, your classic female

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<v Speaker 2>dinner ding ding ding bermitt Bam. Somewhere along the lines,

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<v Speaker 2>I said to you, Oh, I found a lump in

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<v Speaker 2>my breast. Don't worry, it's nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>We were sitting at the bar in chester White. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember eating like cured meat.

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<v Speaker 2>I reckon in this game of that night we spent

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<v Speaker 2>thirty seconds on it, probably because it was too scary

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about and I was evincing myself that it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't anything. So we passed by that very very quickly,

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<v Speaker 2>and we moved on to the next thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the next time we talked about it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>in my memory is when we came down for the

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<v Speaker 1>Melbourne show and we caught up quickly before the night

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<v Speaker 1>before the show, and you said.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I finally let you into what was really going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's something that I've realized about myself, is that

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<v Speaker 2>I try and shield people from what's happening, to protect them.

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<v Speaker 2>But the truth of what would happen, what had happened,

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<v Speaker 2>is that i'd actually to that point of that night

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<v Speaker 2>where I told you that I'd found a lump, had

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<v Speaker 2>actually been about three or four months earlier, end of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three. I was thirty six at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and I stumbled across a lump in my right breast.

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<v Speaker 2>And I say stumbled across because I wasn't checking for it.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't tell you exactly what happened, but at some

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<v Speaker 2>point I sort of grazed across my boob, felt a

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<v Speaker 2>sort of rid and a tenderness in that area. My

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<v Speaker 2>mum was with me at the time. I said, do

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<v Speaker 2>you feel what I feel? She said yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 2>booked him to the GP straight away. GP sent me

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<v Speaker 2>off for an ultrasound and I went for that ultrasound

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<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly, and I remember lying there and saying to

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<v Speaker 2>the ultrasound technician or the soamographer, I think we call them,

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<v Speaker 2>can you see what I'm feeling? And she said no,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't, so she out relief. She said, I can't

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<v Speaker 2>find it what you're feeling, and she checked it with

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<v Speaker 2>her supervisor and she said, we can't see anything here.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's what we want you to do is give

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<v Speaker 2>it a few months. If the lump is still there,

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<v Speaker 2>if you can still feel it, go back to your GP,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we'll reassess. And what we put it down

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<v Speaker 2>to that point, I don't know. I had done a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of rounds of elective egg razing that year, two

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<v Speaker 2>rounds of it, and we thought it might be hormonal,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'd done one really recently, so we thought that

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<v Speaker 2>it just might be something to do with that. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I put it away, locked in a little box, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say the next few months I thought about it,

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<v Speaker 2>but not too much. I didn't because that was still scary, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because if it was still there, I'd have to do

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<v Speaker 2>something about it. So maybe I'd sort of go off

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<v Speaker 2>live my life, do fun things, and then resolf and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, oh, I should check. And some days

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<v Speaker 2>it was really really present. Other days I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>struggled to find it a bit more. I reckon in hindsight,

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<v Speaker 2>that might have been again hormones with your cycle, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>get bigger for a bit in this small life, So

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<v Speaker 2>it might have just been where I was with my cycle,

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<v Speaker 2>that it was maybe sort of masking in there. Eventually

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<v Speaker 2>I got to a point, and this leads us back

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<v Speaker 2>to when we were, you know, on tour we'd just

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<v Speaker 2>done Sydney, where I kind of couldn't deny it anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a lump there. It was still there, and

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<v Speaker 2>it started to sort of consume every single part of

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<v Speaker 2>my life, like I couldn't think or concentrate about anything

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<v Speaker 2>on anything because I kept thinking about this lump. So

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<v Speaker 2>so again not telling anyone one friend, I told I

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<v Speaker 2>may went back to the GP, who sent me off

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<v Speaker 2>to a specialist, and I went to see that specialist

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<v Speaker 2>who sent me off for a mammogram as the first step.

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<v Speaker 2>That mammogram fell the week after our Sydney show, just

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<v Speaker 2>before we did our Melbourne show. So by the time

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<v Speaker 2>I saw you on the Wednesday, I was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>in the thick of the process of getting diagnosed, I

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<v Speaker 2>would say. And so that night I shared with you

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<v Speaker 2>that I had gone to get a mammogram and a

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<v Speaker 2>notious sound had a just pretty standard to me. That morning,

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<v Speaker 2>left there, going home, was on a call with some clients.

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<v Speaker 2>I was having a rollicking good time with them. She

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<v Speaker 2>was just chatting about our plans and I looked down

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<v Speaker 2>at my phone and there was a text from the

0:12:05.445 --> 0:12:10.405
<v Speaker 2>mammogram technician and said, Halo c this is blah blah

0:12:10.405 --> 0:12:13.565
<v Speaker 2>from the blah blah hospital. We'd like you to come

0:12:13.565 --> 0:12:17.845
<v Speaker 2>in for some additional images, either this afternoon or tomorrow.

0:12:18.005 --> 0:12:18.725
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh.

0:12:18.965 --> 0:12:21.165
<v Speaker 2>And at that point you're like, they're not fucking around.

0:12:21.165 --> 0:12:23.845
<v Speaker 1>When they say no, they say this afternoon or tomorrow.

0:12:24.605 --> 0:12:28.645
<v Speaker 2>They're like and then I Okay, So my clients, I'm like,

0:12:28.685 --> 0:12:31.205
<v Speaker 2>I gotta go. I gotta go. Jumped in the car

0:12:31.245 --> 0:12:32.725
<v Speaker 2>and called the hospital on my way there because I'm like,

0:12:32.725 --> 0:12:35.605
<v Speaker 2>I'm not waiting I'm going to go right now, got

0:12:35.645 --> 0:12:38.445
<v Speaker 2>back to the hospital, walked into the waiting room, said

0:12:38.485 --> 0:12:40.365
<v Speaker 2>who I was. I didn't even get to sit down

0:12:40.725 --> 0:12:42.925
<v Speaker 2>before they came out and got me and took me

0:12:42.965 --> 0:12:47.845
<v Speaker 2>straight back into the room for more mammograms. And I

0:12:47.885 --> 0:12:50.165
<v Speaker 2>say more mammograms because they put me in one time.

0:12:50.765 --> 0:12:53.005
<v Speaker 2>And then she said, I'm going to take these images

0:12:53.205 --> 0:12:55.685
<v Speaker 2>and go and show my supervisor. And then she came

0:12:55.725 --> 0:12:57.045
<v Speaker 2>back in and she said, I'm just going to take

0:12:57.045 --> 0:12:59.405
<v Speaker 2>a few more images, and then she took them out,

0:12:59.445 --> 0:13:00.605
<v Speaker 2>and then she came back in and she said, IM

0:13:00.605 --> 0:13:02.125
<v Speaker 2>going to take a few more images, and then she

0:13:02.165 --> 0:13:03.605
<v Speaker 2>went back out, and then she came in and the

0:13:03.725 --> 0:13:06.965
<v Speaker 2>radiographer came in with her, and that's when they said

0:13:06.965 --> 0:13:08.645
<v Speaker 2>to me, there's something suspicious here and we'd like to

0:13:08.685 --> 0:13:09.205
<v Speaker 2>do bilpsi.

0:13:09.965 --> 0:13:15.525
<v Speaker 1>So the words were at that moment it wasn't it's cancer.

0:13:15.885 --> 0:13:17.965
<v Speaker 2>No, no, And that's the thing I've come to learn,

0:13:18.005 --> 0:13:21.725
<v Speaker 2>like through speaking to a lot of women, it can

0:13:21.765 --> 0:13:25.645
<v Speaker 2>be lots of things. You know, there's cis, there's benign lumps,

0:13:25.725 --> 0:13:30.165
<v Speaker 2>there's ridges of tissue. So yeah, biopsy was the next

0:13:30.525 --> 0:13:34.325
<v Speaker 2>stage in that. Well, you know it's something, yes, and

0:13:34.365 --> 0:13:36.245
<v Speaker 2>they said to me, we'd like to a biopsy. They

0:13:36.245 --> 0:13:38.925
<v Speaker 2>said we need a refer or. I said, can you

0:13:38.965 --> 0:13:39.965
<v Speaker 2>do it now? And they said, oh, we need a

0:13:39.965 --> 0:13:42.405
<v Speaker 2>referral from your specialist to do it now, so that

0:13:42.485 --> 0:13:43.965
<v Speaker 2>might take her some time. And I was like, call

0:13:44.005 --> 0:13:47.405
<v Speaker 2>it okay, cool, call her okay. Yeah, no, so they called.

0:13:47.485 --> 0:13:50.165
<v Speaker 2>They said go away for an hour and we'll get

0:13:50.165 --> 0:13:52.445
<v Speaker 2>this organized. At that point, I turned that one of

0:13:52.445 --> 0:13:54.365
<v Speaker 2>the women who was helping me earlier. Her name was Hannah,

0:13:54.445 --> 0:13:56.765
<v Speaker 2>and I said, do you think I should call my mum?

0:13:56.965 --> 0:13:58.725
<v Speaker 2>And she looked at me in the eye and said,

0:13:59.365 --> 0:14:02.245
<v Speaker 2>I would want my mum here about you. So at

0:14:02.245 --> 0:14:05.405
<v Speaker 2>that point I'm going outside the hospital and just called Mum,

0:14:05.685 --> 0:14:06.845
<v Speaker 2>called one of the girls from Mom and me are

0:14:06.845 --> 0:14:08.925
<v Speaker 2>actually because I was like, I can't.

0:14:09.485 --> 0:14:10.125
<v Speaker 1>You were meant to be.

0:14:10.285 --> 0:14:11.645
<v Speaker 2>I was supposed to be working out, doing a lot

0:14:11.645 --> 0:14:14.165
<v Speaker 2>of work, and we were doing this. Bless her. She's like,

0:14:14.165 --> 0:14:16.605
<v Speaker 2>don't worry about a thing, I've got this and just

0:14:16.605 --> 0:14:19.365
<v Speaker 2>sort of walked around the hospital in a days for

0:14:19.445 --> 0:14:21.605
<v Speaker 2>a couple of hours. Mum got there pretty quickly and

0:14:21.645 --> 0:14:23.605
<v Speaker 2>we waited and had a biopsy.

0:14:23.605 --> 0:14:25.805
<v Speaker 1>And that was the day when everything really changed.

0:14:26.165 --> 0:14:28.085
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say so, and then that was so

0:14:28.125 --> 0:14:29.845
<v Speaker 2>that was the Monday. Sorry I'm jumping around here. It

0:14:29.845 --> 0:14:31.965
<v Speaker 2>gets very very detailed in this world. By the time

0:14:32.005 --> 0:14:34.125
<v Speaker 2>I saw it was the Wednesday and had the biopsy.

0:14:34.125 --> 0:14:37.445
<v Speaker 2>I'd had an MRI. I'd met with my specialist who

0:14:37.485 --> 0:14:39.885
<v Speaker 2>was sort of like, there's something, but until we get

0:14:39.885 --> 0:14:44.045
<v Speaker 2>the results of that MRI and the biopsy, we don't know.

0:14:44.925 --> 0:14:46.645
<v Speaker 2>So when I saw you, I was like, hey, hoole,

0:14:46.805 --> 0:14:49.245
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff happened in the last few days, and

0:14:49.325 --> 0:14:53.565
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow morning before you go on stage and we do

0:14:53.605 --> 0:14:55.885
<v Speaker 2>the out loud show in Melbourne, I'm going to go

0:14:55.965 --> 0:14:58.245
<v Speaker 2>in and get some results. Yes, is their heads up?

0:14:58.805 --> 0:15:04.085
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's all I remember, Yes, and yeah, and tell

0:15:04.125 --> 0:15:05.605
<v Speaker 1>me what they said on that morning.

0:15:06.885 --> 0:15:11.965
<v Speaker 2>I went in. Weird experience to go in knowing that

0:15:12.405 --> 0:15:14.565
<v Speaker 2>you kind of know at that point, when you've gone

0:15:14.605 --> 0:15:16.685
<v Speaker 2>through all those things, you've had enough time to sort

0:15:16.685 --> 0:15:18.525
<v Speaker 2>of get your head around it. You sort of know

0:15:18.525 --> 0:15:21.525
<v Speaker 2>what's coming, and you know that once you go through

0:15:21.525 --> 0:15:23.365
<v Speaker 2>that door, your life is going to be divided into

0:15:23.365 --> 0:15:26.245
<v Speaker 2>the before and after. But I went and I sat down,

0:15:26.285 --> 0:15:28.525
<v Speaker 2>and they don't beat around. There's no niceties when I'm

0:15:28.525 --> 0:15:31.085
<v Speaker 2>talking about the weather. She gets out of his paper

0:15:31.085 --> 0:15:32.605
<v Speaker 2>and she says, so it is a breast cancer.

0:15:33.885 --> 0:15:36.485
<v Speaker 1>How do you feel in that moment, Like, as you say,

0:15:36.525 --> 0:15:40.565
<v Speaker 1>you've had the time and a way to stress, worry

0:15:40.645 --> 0:15:44.285
<v Speaker 1>panic about this, know that it's not nothing. But when

0:15:44.285 --> 0:15:47.325
<v Speaker 1>they say those words to you, how what happens?

0:15:47.685 --> 0:15:50.525
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what? I perflect on this a lot

0:15:50.565 --> 0:15:54.085
<v Speaker 2>and thought about that moment. It's not what I thought

0:15:54.245 --> 0:15:56.725
<v Speaker 2>it would be. It's not this like yet there's an

0:15:56.765 --> 0:16:01.845
<v Speaker 2>absolute pity in your stomach and nerves like I've never experienced.

0:16:03.045 --> 0:16:06.125
<v Speaker 2>At the same time, it's not that sort of like

0:16:06.485 --> 0:16:10.485
<v Speaker 2>harrowing cry kind of there's not a lot of shock

0:16:10.525 --> 0:16:13.685
<v Speaker 2>in it. Like I said, because you've sort of had

0:16:13.685 --> 0:16:19.605
<v Speaker 2>the time for me, this weird thing happened, and I

0:16:19.605 --> 0:16:21.685
<v Speaker 2>can only talk to my own experience that I felt

0:16:21.725 --> 0:16:26.725
<v Speaker 2>an insane amount of clarity in that moment, clarity in

0:16:28.325 --> 0:16:32.925
<v Speaker 2>how I wanted the next phase of my life to look,

0:16:33.085 --> 0:16:34.685
<v Speaker 2>and almost how I wanted the rest of my.

0:16:34.645 --> 0:16:37.285
<v Speaker 1>Life to look, and what was that Who.

0:16:37.165 --> 0:16:39.485
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be with me was really really clear,

0:16:39.605 --> 0:16:42.245
<v Speaker 2>Like I sort of had this vision. It was almost

0:16:42.245 --> 0:16:44.365
<v Speaker 2>like I got like a circle where I knew who

0:16:44.405 --> 0:16:46.885
<v Speaker 2>I needed to let know who was going to be

0:16:46.965 --> 0:16:49.805
<v Speaker 2>part of this. When I said journey, people have a

0:16:49.805 --> 0:16:52.285
<v Speaker 2>big problem with the word journey. I don't it's a journey.

0:16:53.165 --> 0:16:56.365
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what else to call it, wild ride, adventure, fuckery,

0:16:56.565 --> 0:16:59.125
<v Speaker 2>I don't, you know. But also how I wanted to

0:16:59.205 --> 0:17:01.845
<v Speaker 2>go through whatever it was that was to come. I

0:17:01.925 --> 0:17:04.765
<v Speaker 2>knew straight away I didn't want to be angry and

0:17:04.805 --> 0:17:07.685
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be too sad. Something in me

0:17:07.805 --> 0:17:10.445
<v Speaker 2>was saying fun and love. I just want to try

0:17:10.565 --> 0:17:12.125
<v Speaker 2>for the best part. I'm not just SAT's not to

0:17:12.125 --> 0:17:14.325
<v Speaker 2>say that there hasn't been moments of extreme sadness and

0:17:14.365 --> 0:17:17.725
<v Speaker 2>anger and frustration, and it has been really really hard.

0:17:17.845 --> 0:17:20.565
<v Speaker 2>But I knew that I wanted to somehow try and

0:17:20.605 --> 0:17:25.045
<v Speaker 2>harness some element of love and joy in it. So

0:17:25.165 --> 0:17:27.845
<v Speaker 2>that was kind of happening. At the same time, there's

0:17:27.845 --> 0:17:30.485
<v Speaker 2>something you're knowing what it is, and I've learned through

0:17:30.525 --> 0:17:32.245
<v Speaker 2>this whole process, and I know we'll get into it

0:17:32.325 --> 0:17:36.085
<v Speaker 2>that when I have a plan and I know what's coming,

0:17:36.485 --> 0:17:39.565
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay. I can deal with that. It's knowing that

0:17:39.685 --> 0:17:42.565
<v Speaker 2>is the worst. So that lead up to the diagnosis,

0:17:42.725 --> 0:17:45.485
<v Speaker 2>or you know, after surgery, you get you know, you're

0:17:45.485 --> 0:17:50.005
<v Speaker 2>waiting sometimes seven ten days for the results or before scans,

0:17:50.045 --> 0:17:53.005
<v Speaker 2>after scans. That is the part that is so incredibly

0:17:53.045 --> 0:17:57.205
<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable and horrendous, and you know you can't I can't

0:17:57.245 --> 0:17:59.925
<v Speaker 2>function in those moments. But when she said it's breast

0:17:59.925 --> 0:18:03.325
<v Speaker 2>cancer and here's what we're going to do, I'm like, Okay, cool,

0:18:03.605 --> 0:18:04.365
<v Speaker 2>let's go do it.

0:18:06.885 --> 0:18:09.085
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break, but please come back,

0:18:09.365 --> 0:18:12.125
<v Speaker 1>because Lucy has a lot more to share about this

0:18:12.205 --> 0:18:17.285
<v Speaker 1>extraordinary time. One of the reasons why I really wanted,

0:18:17.285 --> 0:18:19.885
<v Speaker 1>obviously to talk to you for Breast Cancer Awareness Month

0:18:20.005 --> 0:18:24.445
<v Speaker 1>was because your story is like ordinary and extraordinary at

0:18:24.445 --> 0:18:26.565
<v Speaker 1>the same time right now, as in you know, this

0:18:26.605 --> 0:18:28.405
<v Speaker 1>happens to a lot of women. It happened to so

0:18:28.445 --> 0:18:30.765
<v Speaker 1>many And one of the things I wanted to get

0:18:30.805 --> 0:18:33.805
<v Speaker 1>across right is that on that day when you found

0:18:33.805 --> 0:18:36.085
<v Speaker 1>that out, and it was the day of the Melbourne show,

0:18:36.125 --> 0:18:38.565
<v Speaker 1>obviously you did tell me like the time we had

0:18:38.565 --> 0:18:41.325
<v Speaker 1>to spend together that night. No one else knew, well

0:18:41.365 --> 0:18:43.325
<v Speaker 1>one of the person knew on our tour, so I

0:18:43.405 --> 0:18:45.285
<v Speaker 1>kept like holding your hand of you okay, all those things,

0:18:45.285 --> 0:18:46.605
<v Speaker 1>but you got through it like the pro that you

0:18:46.645 --> 0:18:49.685
<v Speaker 1>are not that that's anything to be fated, but that

0:18:49.765 --> 0:18:52.365
<v Speaker 1>was just your situation. But what I wanted to get

0:18:52.445 --> 0:18:57.085
<v Speaker 1>to is the like I remember obviously being super worried

0:18:57.125 --> 0:19:02.165
<v Speaker 1>for you, super anxious for you. But also, and I

0:19:02.165 --> 0:19:04.405
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of people have this, I kind of

0:19:04.445 --> 0:19:06.925
<v Speaker 1>probably had a level of complacency about it too, because

0:19:06.925 --> 0:19:09.045
<v Speaker 1>I thought, she'll be fine, She'll be right, Like it'll

0:19:09.045 --> 0:19:12.525
<v Speaker 1>probably just be a little bit of maybe radio therapy

0:19:12.605 --> 0:19:14.805
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, which is not nice, but you know whatever,

0:19:15.205 --> 0:19:18.005
<v Speaker 1>it'll be all right, Like this is and when I

0:19:18.005 --> 0:19:21.045
<v Speaker 1>think about that now, I'm like idiot. But also I

0:19:21.085 --> 0:19:24.445
<v Speaker 1>think that people who aren't close to breast cancer for

0:19:24.485 --> 0:19:27.885
<v Speaker 1>lots of reasons, kind of think it's solved. You'll like

0:19:28.445 --> 0:19:30.485
<v Speaker 1>or that it's not. It's you know, we've got so

0:19:30.605 --> 0:19:31.365
<v Speaker 1>good at it now.

0:19:31.485 --> 0:19:31.685
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:19:31.725 --> 0:19:33.165
<v Speaker 1>You just hear people saying that all the time if

0:19:33.165 --> 0:19:34.605
<v Speaker 1>you catch it early and so on, which I know

0:19:34.645 --> 0:19:37.165
<v Speaker 1>we'll get to that, but like, no biggie kind of

0:19:37.405 --> 0:19:38.885
<v Speaker 1>and obviously it's a biggie for you.

0:19:38.925 --> 0:19:39.845
<v Speaker 2>When I was scared, but you.

0:19:39.765 --> 0:19:41.085
<v Speaker 1>Know what I mean. And then so I want to

0:19:41.125 --> 0:19:45.085
<v Speaker 1>go to the day a little later. In that time,

0:19:45.485 --> 0:19:47.285
<v Speaker 1>it was a time when you were about to find

0:19:47.325 --> 0:19:51.005
<v Speaker 1>out kind of what was going to happen, and you know,

0:19:51.045 --> 0:19:52.885
<v Speaker 1>we'd all been saying, and you'd been saying, and you

0:19:52.925 --> 0:19:54.645
<v Speaker 1>know it would probably just be a little it won't

0:19:54.685 --> 0:19:56.605
<v Speaker 1>be a big deal. And I remember that I was

0:19:56.645 --> 0:19:58.605
<v Speaker 1>waiting for a call from you about that, and I

0:19:58.645 --> 0:20:01.205
<v Speaker 1>was in Sydney, New and Melbourne and the call didn't come,

0:20:01.405 --> 0:20:03.645
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh. And I messaged a mutual

0:20:03.685 --> 0:20:06.805
<v Speaker 1>friend of ours, Mon's, and I was like, I don't

0:20:06.885 --> 0:20:09.245
<v Speaker 1>like this. I don't like this. And she called me,

0:20:09.325 --> 0:20:11.005
<v Speaker 1>She's like, what do you mean. I was like, it's

0:20:11.045 --> 0:20:13.885
<v Speaker 1>taken you long. I don't like it. And that was

0:20:13.925 --> 0:20:16.605
<v Speaker 1>the day again where you found out that what was

0:20:16.645 --> 0:20:20.165
<v Speaker 1>ahead of you was not like, well just a little

0:20:20.165 --> 0:20:22.005
<v Speaker 1>bit of this or that, not that there's any such thing.

0:20:22.125 --> 0:20:23.805
<v Speaker 1>I know that, and being close to you and you're

0:20:23.805 --> 0:20:25.805
<v Speaker 1>explaining to me lots of different kinds of cancers. I

0:20:25.845 --> 0:20:29.405
<v Speaker 1>know that. But the day that that all shifted again, Yeah,

0:20:29.445 --> 0:20:30.205
<v Speaker 1>tell me about that.

0:20:30.525 --> 0:20:32.525
<v Speaker 2>I mean I think that I was the same. I

0:20:32.525 --> 0:20:34.645
<v Speaker 2>didn't think it was I knew it was big, but

0:20:34.685 --> 0:20:37.645
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize how big it was. And I think

0:20:37.685 --> 0:20:39.685
<v Speaker 2>as a society or a world, we are aware of

0:20:39.685 --> 0:20:42.165
<v Speaker 2>breast cancer but we're not really aware of breast cancer.

0:20:42.725 --> 0:20:44.925
<v Speaker 2>And I even think about what I was initially diagnosed.

0:20:44.925 --> 0:20:49.205
<v Speaker 2>Like back to that conversation, I said to this specialist.

0:20:49.885 --> 0:20:51.525
<v Speaker 2>She told me, like, we're going to start with surgery,

0:20:52.285 --> 0:20:57.325
<v Speaker 2>we will definitely need to do radiation, question mark on chemotherapy.

0:20:58.405 --> 0:21:00.205
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely some other stuff, you know, and you only

0:21:00.205 --> 0:21:01.845
<v Speaker 2>hear a little bit. But I said to her, I'm

0:21:01.885 --> 0:21:05.405
<v Speaker 2>going to the US in July. And I said, is

0:21:05.445 --> 0:21:08.645
<v Speaker 2>that still okay? And she said to me, if you're

0:21:08.645 --> 0:21:11.565
<v Speaker 2>not doing chemo, you'll be doing radio. And it was like, oh, okay,

0:21:12.085 --> 0:21:13.085
<v Speaker 2>it's a bit more serious.

0:21:13.205 --> 0:21:15.445
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're not going to the US.

0:21:17.205 --> 0:21:19.565
<v Speaker 2>And but to your point, the day that you're talking

0:21:19.605 --> 0:21:22.485
<v Speaker 2>about is post surgery. So they go in and they

0:21:22.525 --> 0:21:24.365
<v Speaker 2>take the lump out. For me, it was a lumpectomy

0:21:24.485 --> 0:21:27.485
<v Speaker 2>rather than a full mistectomy. It depends on the patient.

0:21:28.165 --> 0:21:31.725
<v Speaker 2>And after the surgery, you go in and you find

0:21:31.725 --> 0:21:33.765
<v Speaker 2>out the results of the surgery, because what they do

0:21:33.885 --> 0:21:35.445
<v Speaker 2>is they take out the lump and then they'll often

0:21:35.485 --> 0:21:38.605
<v Speaker 2>test the area around the lump to see if there's

0:21:38.645 --> 0:21:41.605
<v Speaker 2>any residual cancer there, and they'll also test a couple

0:21:41.645 --> 0:21:44.085
<v Speaker 2>of your lymph nodes to see if the cancer is spread.

0:21:44.645 --> 0:21:47.885
<v Speaker 2>And so I've gone in for this results. I went

0:21:47.965 --> 0:21:50.005
<v Speaker 2>on my own. I was very I just wanted to

0:21:50.045 --> 0:21:55.285
<v Speaker 2>go on my own. I don't know why I wanted to, Like,

0:21:56.405 --> 0:21:59.165
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I'm going on my own. I don't

0:21:59.205 --> 0:22:01.445
<v Speaker 2>know what it's about. And I went in there and

0:22:02.325 --> 0:22:04.485
<v Speaker 2>I knew from the start, from as soon as I

0:22:04.485 --> 0:22:06.085
<v Speaker 2>walked in. And you can just tell, you.

0:22:06.005 --> 0:22:07.885
<v Speaker 1>Can tell from the energy in the room, look on

0:22:07.925 --> 0:22:08.605
<v Speaker 1>the doctor's face.

0:22:09.885 --> 0:22:12.485
<v Speaker 2>And they basically said that they tested those margins and

0:22:12.525 --> 0:22:15.645
<v Speaker 2>there was still cancer in those margins and that the

0:22:15.645 --> 0:22:18.365
<v Speaker 2>two lymphonones they had tested were both positive as well.

0:22:19.125 --> 0:22:21.285
<v Speaker 2>And what that meant, and she kept reassuring me, she

0:22:21.405 --> 0:22:25.005
<v Speaker 2>was so beautiful. You know, it's still curable. It's just

0:22:25.045 --> 0:22:27.405
<v Speaker 2>going to take a little bit longer. And I've got

0:22:27.525 --> 0:22:30.085
<v Speaker 2>you know, we've got this. It's all manageable. But what

0:22:30.125 --> 0:22:34.445
<v Speaker 2>it meant was that the road out of this just

0:22:34.485 --> 0:22:37.405
<v Speaker 2>went from maybe some surgery and some radiation to like, Okay,

0:22:37.445 --> 0:22:39.245
<v Speaker 2>this is going to take a while, and this is

0:22:39.285 --> 0:22:43.085
<v Speaker 2>like life is fully on hold while we figure this out.

0:22:43.125 --> 0:22:46.325
<v Speaker 2>And that's when they start talking about whole body treatment,

0:22:46.565 --> 0:22:49.245
<v Speaker 2>which means chemotherapy. But they ease you in in a

0:22:49.285 --> 0:22:50.925
<v Speaker 2>really beautiful way. So we're going to do some whole

0:22:50.925 --> 0:22:53.805
<v Speaker 2>body treatment and I'm like, is that chemo? When she's like,

0:22:53.845 --> 0:22:55.765
<v Speaker 2>that's chemo, and I remember saying, oh, that's a dang,

0:22:55.805 --> 0:23:01.085
<v Speaker 2>and she goes it is indeed a dang. Quite a

0:23:01.085 --> 0:23:05.605
<v Speaker 2>long road of huge yeah. Yeah. So from there we

0:23:05.605 --> 0:23:07.445
<v Speaker 2>were looking at it was we'd definitely have to do

0:23:07.485 --> 0:23:10.205
<v Speaker 2>more surgery to get that cancer out. Five months of

0:23:10.285 --> 0:23:14.645
<v Speaker 2>chemo on the cards almost straight away, then looking at radiation,

0:23:14.765 --> 0:23:17.725
<v Speaker 2>then looking at more therapies after that, intend tablet form.

0:23:17.765 --> 0:23:20.605
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, really really long road I wanted. I didn't

0:23:20.685 --> 0:23:22.165
<v Speaker 2>let you know because I just didn't know what to do,

0:23:22.285 --> 0:23:22.965
<v Speaker 2>I know, but then you.

0:23:22.965 --> 0:23:25.405
<v Speaker 1>Did, and I remember, I remember really clearly, not that

0:23:25.445 --> 0:23:27.925
<v Speaker 1>this is about me, but I hope that some of

0:23:27.925 --> 0:23:30.765
<v Speaker 1>the people listening to this as well as obviously women

0:23:30.805 --> 0:23:34.685
<v Speaker 1>who were thinking about themselves and their journeys, but friends

0:23:34.685 --> 0:23:36.725
<v Speaker 1>and loved ones. That's what I want to ask you

0:23:36.725 --> 0:23:38.685
<v Speaker 1>about now, because I remember very clearly where I was

0:23:38.725 --> 0:23:40.325
<v Speaker 1>when you told me that. It was in our old

0:23:40.325 --> 0:23:43.005
<v Speaker 1>office downstairs, and I was trying to find a corner.

0:23:43.005 --> 0:23:46.805
<v Speaker 1>I remember, I remember really clearly. Anyway, when you get

0:23:46.805 --> 0:23:50.165
<v Speaker 1>that news and you have a beautiful inner circle has

0:23:50.245 --> 0:23:54.445
<v Speaker 1>discussed and your mum, and so the news goes out. Yes,

0:23:54.565 --> 0:23:56.085
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be a hell of a year,

0:23:56.365 --> 0:23:58.765
<v Speaker 1>half a year, more than a year. Whatever happens. This

0:23:58.965 --> 0:24:01.485
<v Speaker 1>loose is this is it. Can you tell me a

0:24:01.525 --> 0:24:04.845
<v Speaker 1>little bit about what helped what didn't help? You know?

0:24:04.925 --> 0:24:06.405
<v Speaker 1>You know how people always say I don't know what

0:24:06.405 --> 0:24:09.765
<v Speaker 1>to do. Like, so you know, I was listening to you,

0:24:09.765 --> 0:24:13.245
<v Speaker 1>and obviously in another city whatever I mean, I decided quickly.

0:24:13.325 --> 0:24:14.645
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to let you know that I was

0:24:14.685 --> 0:24:17.045
<v Speaker 1>thinking of you, and we established a little rhythm of that.

0:24:17.125 --> 0:24:20.485
<v Speaker 1>But like, what's helpful? What do you want people's villages

0:24:20.525 --> 0:24:22.245
<v Speaker 1>to know about moments like that.

0:24:22.165 --> 0:24:24.525
<v Speaker 2>In those moments when they've just found out someone they

0:24:24.565 --> 0:24:27.205
<v Speaker 2>love has breast cancer or cancer or any big shitty

0:24:27.245 --> 0:24:31.125
<v Speaker 2>life thing, big shitty life thing. Yeah, do something. Yeah,

0:24:31.885 --> 0:24:33.925
<v Speaker 2>I know that we can get really really lost in

0:24:34.805 --> 0:24:36.125
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to say. I don't know what

0:24:36.165 --> 0:24:37.565
<v Speaker 2>to do. I don't know what she needs. I don't

0:24:37.605 --> 0:24:39.165
<v Speaker 2>know if I should be dropping around, I don't know

0:24:39.245 --> 0:24:42.165
<v Speaker 2>I should be calling. I do something. Just let that

0:24:42.205 --> 0:24:44.525
<v Speaker 2>person know that you love them, and you don't have

0:24:44.565 --> 0:24:47.805
<v Speaker 2>to find the perfect words, I don't think. I remember

0:24:47.805 --> 0:24:50.125
<v Speaker 2>one friend texted me and after a couple of days

0:24:50.125 --> 0:24:52.405
<v Speaker 2>and she said, I heard through you know, another friend,

0:24:53.285 --> 0:24:54.765
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't want to text you on that day

0:24:54.805 --> 0:24:56.085
<v Speaker 2>because I thought you might be doing this. And then

0:24:56.125 --> 0:24:57.485
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't going to text you the next day because

0:24:57.485 --> 0:24:58.805
<v Speaker 2>it was Mother's Day, and then I thought I won't

0:24:58.845 --> 0:25:00.245
<v Speaker 2>text here, and then in the end, I just wanted

0:25:00.285 --> 0:25:01.725
<v Speaker 2>to say I love you and I'm thinking of you,

0:25:02.245 --> 0:25:04.085
<v Speaker 2>and that's all you need to do. And I'm not

0:25:04.125 --> 0:25:07.485
<v Speaker 2>saying like if people don't text you, nothing is personal

0:25:07.525 --> 0:25:09.325
<v Speaker 2>in this world. Like we're all just trying.

0:25:09.125 --> 0:25:12.245
<v Speaker 1>To well, you've got something very big in front of you.

0:25:12.205 --> 0:25:16.365
<v Speaker 2>To deal with your I'm not worried about thinking to him,

0:25:16.365 --> 0:25:18.365
<v Speaker 2>just trying to get through and think about what is next,

0:25:18.365 --> 0:25:20.125
<v Speaker 2>which is huge, like trying to come to terms with

0:25:20.485 --> 0:25:21.925
<v Speaker 2>you know. At that point, I think I also like

0:25:21.925 --> 0:25:24.685
<v Speaker 2>I was just I was really really worried about my

0:25:24.685 --> 0:25:26.765
<v Speaker 2>fertility and all that, and I'd said have said to

0:25:26.845 --> 0:25:28.405
<v Speaker 2>them I did have some eggs on ice, and they

0:25:28.405 --> 0:25:29.885
<v Speaker 2>were like, if you want to do one roll round,

0:25:29.925 --> 0:25:31.845
<v Speaker 2>you can do it now. So like you had a

0:25:31.885 --> 0:25:34.205
<v Speaker 2>lot of yeah, just one thing happens, and then suddenly,

0:25:34.245 --> 0:25:36.005
<v Speaker 2>like you're on the phone and you're getting injections, and

0:25:36.005 --> 0:25:38.045
<v Speaker 2>then you're getting organized to get ports put into your

0:25:38.125 --> 0:25:40.485
<v Speaker 2>chest so that they can administer the chemo easily, and

0:25:40.485 --> 0:25:42.045
<v Speaker 2>then you're you know, within a week. It's all just

0:25:42.085 --> 0:25:45.765
<v Speaker 2>it's all moving suddenly. It is moving so fast, and

0:25:45.805 --> 0:25:47.565
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, you're sort of trying to tell

0:25:47.605 --> 0:25:49.365
<v Speaker 2>the right people. I didn't tell the whole world for

0:25:49.405 --> 0:25:51.205
<v Speaker 2>a long time, like in terms of like putting out

0:25:51.205 --> 0:25:53.045
<v Speaker 2>to my wider circles, but I chose who I wanted

0:25:53.085 --> 0:25:55.485
<v Speaker 2>to know, and I called them all one by one.

0:25:56.085 --> 0:25:58.765
<v Speaker 2>I think what I really learned is that the person

0:25:58.805 --> 0:26:01.885
<v Speaker 2>who's at the center of that circle doesn't know what

0:26:01.925 --> 0:26:04.645
<v Speaker 2>they need or want. So a question like how can

0:26:04.685 --> 0:26:07.005
<v Speaker 2>I help or let me know is so well intended.

0:26:07.645 --> 0:26:12.165
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the answer. So statements are amazing. I'm

0:26:12.205 --> 0:26:13.925
<v Speaker 2>going to come by your house at three pm and

0:26:13.925 --> 0:26:17.725
<v Speaker 2>put this on the doorstep. I could do. I've got

0:26:17.765 --> 0:26:20.005
<v Speaker 2>an afternoon free here. I can do X y Z

0:26:20.125 --> 0:26:22.525
<v Speaker 2>for you, like I can either A come and lie

0:26:22.525 --> 0:26:25.885
<v Speaker 2>in bed with you, B take you shopping, or see

0:26:25.965 --> 0:26:30.605
<v Speaker 2>do this choose also the words no need to reply, yeah,

0:26:30.765 --> 0:26:31.685
<v Speaker 2>we love those words.

0:26:31.845 --> 0:26:35.085
<v Speaker 1>Ye always put the no need to reply on.

0:26:35.245 --> 0:26:37.445
<v Speaker 2>I just think you can't go wrong. Really just do something,

0:26:38.085 --> 0:26:39.845
<v Speaker 2>and it's not about you. If you don't, if someone

0:26:39.885 --> 0:26:41.925
<v Speaker 2>doesn't right back, or they don't acknowledge whatever, it's not

0:26:41.965 --> 0:26:44.485
<v Speaker 2>about you. But they probably really love you and they're

0:26:44.485 --> 0:26:46.645
<v Speaker 2>really grateful. They just don't have the capacity at that point.

0:26:46.685 --> 0:26:48.565
<v Speaker 2>There is just so much going on in their world.

0:26:48.765 --> 0:26:49.565
<v Speaker 1>Of course I could.

0:26:49.405 --> 0:26:52.965
<v Speaker 2>Talk about that stuff forever, but yeah, it's a it's

0:26:53.005 --> 0:26:55.565
<v Speaker 2>a really tricky one. But I just have learned through

0:26:55.605 --> 0:27:00.645
<v Speaker 2>all of this about the goodness of people and how

0:27:00.645 --> 0:27:03.965
<v Speaker 2>there are so many ways to show up for someone.

0:27:04.045 --> 0:27:07.285
<v Speaker 2>And it isn't just still as I now or flowers like,

0:27:07.485 --> 0:27:10.965
<v Speaker 2>but they're great too. I love flowers. Everyone's like, don't

0:27:11.005 --> 0:27:15.565
<v Speaker 2>send flowers, Please send flowers. It's so nice. I loved it.

0:27:16.725 --> 0:27:19.005
<v Speaker 2>But there's so many ways that you can show up.

0:27:19.405 --> 0:27:20.605
<v Speaker 2>And can we talk about glimmers?

0:27:20.605 --> 0:27:23.405
<v Speaker 1>We can talk about glimmers because I didn't know how

0:27:23.445 --> 0:27:26.365
<v Speaker 1>to show up for you necessarily after I sent you

0:27:26.365 --> 0:27:28.725
<v Speaker 1>a box of biscuits.

0:27:28.725 --> 0:27:29.365
<v Speaker 2>That's a whole other.

0:27:29.285 --> 0:27:31.845
<v Speaker 1>Time, whole other stories, and then joke between us about

0:27:31.845 --> 0:27:34.205
<v Speaker 1>these particular type of biscuits. I send your box of biscuits.

0:27:34.325 --> 0:27:36.005
<v Speaker 2>Send me like, just to be clear, she sent me

0:27:36.045 --> 0:27:38.245
<v Speaker 2>like a hundreds. It wasn't just a box of biscuits.

0:27:38.285 --> 0:27:42.085
<v Speaker 2>It was like this like sort of big Australia post box.

0:27:42.125 --> 0:27:43.805
<v Speaker 2>It was just feel like I couldn't get to the

0:27:43.805 --> 0:27:46.165
<v Speaker 2>bottom of the biscuits, which it just made me laugh,

0:27:46.245 --> 0:27:46.405
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:27:46.845 --> 0:27:58.365
<v Speaker 1>Idea or kind of like okay, but anything candle. But yeah,

0:27:58.405 --> 0:28:02.485
<v Speaker 1>so people obviously, but beyond that, glimmers is what we

0:28:02.565 --> 0:28:05.445
<v Speaker 1>decided to do. Tell me about the glimmers.

0:28:05.525 --> 0:28:07.125
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it was the most beautiful thing I think

0:28:07.125 --> 0:28:09.325
<v Speaker 2>anyone's ever done for me. And when I love it

0:28:09.325 --> 0:28:12.205
<v Speaker 2>about it is that it's free. So we also, like

0:28:12.245 --> 0:28:14.365
<v Speaker 2>when we're showing up for someone who's in crisis, we

0:28:14.445 --> 0:28:16.885
<v Speaker 2>didn't have to spend a lot of money either. You

0:28:16.925 --> 0:28:19.725
<v Speaker 2>sent me a text just after i'd suld have found

0:28:19.725 --> 0:28:21.085
<v Speaker 2>out that big news that the road was going to

0:28:21.085 --> 0:28:24.725
<v Speaker 2>be really long and the cancer was pretty dang serious.

0:28:25.965 --> 0:28:28.405
<v Speaker 2>You said to me, I'm going to send you glimmers.

0:28:29.285 --> 0:28:32.205
<v Speaker 2>You can send them back if you'd like, but there's

0:28:32.245 --> 0:28:35.965
<v Speaker 2>no pressure to. And you started with and the glimmer

0:28:36.245 --> 0:28:38.005
<v Speaker 2>was just little things from your day that were making

0:28:38.045 --> 0:28:40.845
<v Speaker 2>you happy or showing you about the simplicity of life,

0:28:40.885 --> 0:28:44.045
<v Speaker 2>the beauty of life in the little, tiny moments. And

0:28:44.085 --> 0:28:46.245
<v Speaker 2>you sent me a picture of flowers that were on

0:28:46.285 --> 0:28:50.125
<v Speaker 2>the on the ground and they looked pretty Bryan neg flowers,

0:28:50.365 --> 0:28:52.125
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I love this, let's do it. Not.

0:28:52.165 --> 0:28:53.965
<v Speaker 2>I don't think either of us fully knew what we

0:28:53.965 --> 0:28:56.925
<v Speaker 2>were signing up for in that moment, or you especially,

0:28:57.725 --> 0:29:01.325
<v Speaker 2>but you just kept sending glimmers. Every single day. You

0:29:01.325 --> 0:29:04.485
<v Speaker 2>would send me something from your life that was bringing

0:29:04.485 --> 0:29:07.445
<v Speaker 2>you joy. But it was never like a flex like

0:29:07.645 --> 0:29:11.965
<v Speaker 2>you don't listen, we've learnt about glimmers and what's okayted Ascent.

0:29:12.045 --> 0:29:13.565
<v Speaker 2>But you would never be like, oh, you know, here's

0:29:13.645 --> 0:29:17.645
<v Speaker 2>like the amazing holiday that I'm going. Here's the cup

0:29:17.685 --> 0:29:19.965
<v Speaker 2>of tea that I had. Exactly. Glimmers are simple. They

0:29:19.965 --> 0:29:22.805
<v Speaker 2>are like dogs and flowers and tea and a tree.

0:29:23.045 --> 0:29:25.405
<v Speaker 2>And some days I would send them back to you, yep,

0:29:25.965 --> 0:29:28.005
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it might be like but there was

0:29:28.005 --> 0:29:30.485
<v Speaker 2>no expectation, no expectation if I didn't, And often it

0:29:30.525 --> 0:29:32.365
<v Speaker 2>was just you coming at me with the glimmers and

0:29:32.405 --> 0:29:35.085
<v Speaker 2>that's okay. Sometimes you'd get a double double tap heart

0:29:35.125 --> 0:29:37.925
<v Speaker 2>from me. Sometimes you got nothing. Some days it was

0:29:37.965 --> 0:29:40.885
<v Speaker 2>like glomma tanness were like back forward, back forward. Some

0:29:41.005 --> 0:29:42.925
<v Speaker 2>days it would be like my piece of veggie might

0:29:43.005 --> 0:29:47.245
<v Speaker 2>toast in bed, or my friend's dog coming to visit,

0:29:47.285 --> 0:29:49.205
<v Speaker 2>you know, really really simple stuff. But it was just

0:29:49.245 --> 0:29:55.365
<v Speaker 2>this way of us staying connected, very very connected, because

0:29:55.405 --> 0:29:57.165
<v Speaker 2>you and I like in our relationship. I think you know,

0:29:57.205 --> 0:29:58.845
<v Speaker 2>we'd had moments over the years or we wouldn't talk

0:29:58.885 --> 0:30:01.165
<v Speaker 2>for months, but then we'd come back together and that.

0:30:01.245 --> 0:30:03.245
<v Speaker 2>But then suddenly we're in contact every single day, which

0:30:03.285 --> 0:30:07.245
<v Speaker 2>could be a lot, but it wasn't. And you just

0:30:07.325 --> 0:30:10.205
<v Speaker 2>kept showing up and it just was the most beautiful

0:30:11.045 --> 0:30:13.685
<v Speaker 2>show of support. Because as cancer goes on and the

0:30:13.685 --> 0:30:16.845
<v Speaker 2>treatment gets harder, people do drop off, and it's not intentional.

0:30:17.405 --> 0:30:21.485
<v Speaker 2>Life gets busy and that real drama part of the

0:30:21.525 --> 0:30:25.165
<v Speaker 2>diagnosis is over and it's the hard stuff and other

0:30:25.205 --> 0:30:29.885
<v Speaker 2>stuff's come up and that's okay. But in you committing

0:30:29.885 --> 0:30:31.925
<v Speaker 2>to Glimmers, you had to kick shall we up?

0:30:32.965 --> 0:30:35.805
<v Speaker 1>Look? The reason that's the most beautiful, the reason why

0:30:35.805 --> 0:30:38.965
<v Speaker 1>Glimmers were right for us is as we say, we

0:30:38.965 --> 0:30:41.245
<v Speaker 1>weren't in the same place. I couldn't be there doing

0:30:41.325 --> 0:30:43.605
<v Speaker 1>But also to be really honest, there'll be people listening

0:30:43.645 --> 0:30:45.885
<v Speaker 1>to this too. I'm not very good at that kind

0:30:45.925 --> 0:30:47.765
<v Speaker 1>of thing, Like I mean, if you live around the corner,

0:30:47.765 --> 0:30:49.005
<v Speaker 1>of course I would be shutting up.

0:30:49.245 --> 0:30:50.725
<v Speaker 2>But like you're so far away.

0:30:50.565 --> 0:30:52.965
<v Speaker 1>Sending lasagnas and doing all that stuff is not really

0:30:53.005 --> 0:30:55.245
<v Speaker 1>my love language. I mean, I can make a good

0:30:55.245 --> 0:30:58.965
<v Speaker 1>look that one day, I would definitely do it. But

0:30:59.365 --> 0:31:02.485
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking of you every day, and when we

0:31:02.525 --> 0:31:04.205
<v Speaker 1>were in the rhythm of the Glimmers, which we ended,

0:31:04.245 --> 0:31:06.205
<v Speaker 1>we did for a full year, the thing I would

0:31:06.205 --> 0:31:08.925
<v Speaker 1>see would make me think of you, and I knew

0:31:09.085 --> 0:31:12.565
<v Speaker 1>that sometimes more than other times you were having a

0:31:12.685 --> 0:31:19.085
<v Speaker 1>shit time, sometimes you weren't sometimes, and I just wanted

0:31:19.725 --> 0:31:21.965
<v Speaker 1>you to know that I every day, at some point

0:31:22.005 --> 0:31:25.365
<v Speaker 1>at least I remembered Lucy, and I was sending you love.

0:31:25.365 --> 0:31:27.565
<v Speaker 1>And that was all, like, it's not about really what

0:31:27.685 --> 0:31:31.365
<v Speaker 1>the picture is. Although the other great thing about Glimmers

0:31:31.365 --> 0:31:33.125
<v Speaker 1>is it ends up being good for you too, because

0:31:33.165 --> 0:31:35.365
<v Speaker 1>you start to notice the Glimmers, which is good.

0:31:35.405 --> 0:31:36.925
<v Speaker 2>And I did. And there were days where I was

0:31:37.205 --> 0:31:41.605
<v Speaker 2>so sick, like where you can't lift your head up

0:31:42.125 --> 0:31:46.845
<v Speaker 2>from the pillow, kind of sick like just feeling so

0:31:47.285 --> 0:31:50.645
<v Speaker 2>insanely crappy. But I would think about it, like what

0:31:50.765 --> 0:31:52.445
<v Speaker 2>is that glimmer and like, you know, one of my

0:31:52.645 --> 0:31:55.485
<v Speaker 2>and it just made me say the goodness there was

0:31:55.525 --> 0:31:57.765
<v Speaker 2>goodness everywhere, but it you know, like I'd look across

0:31:57.765 --> 0:31:59.805
<v Speaker 2>to my bedside table and it'd be the most beautiful

0:31:59.925 --> 0:32:02.805
<v Speaker 2>rose that one of the neighbors had picked and put

0:32:02.805 --> 0:32:04.885
<v Speaker 2>on the doorstep, and then Mum would come and put it.

0:32:05.005 --> 0:32:06.885
<v Speaker 2>I moved back in with mum, Mother, this is all happening,

0:32:06.925 --> 0:32:11.205
<v Speaker 2>and I'm still there. Now, Well we'll get to that,

0:32:11.725 --> 0:32:13.125
<v Speaker 2>and you know, the roads would be next to my

0:32:13.165 --> 0:32:17.885
<v Speaker 2>bed or even the glimmer was like, oh my god.

0:32:17.925 --> 0:32:19.285
<v Speaker 2>I was like I was going through a treatment right

0:32:19.325 --> 0:32:22.205
<v Speaker 2>at the Olympics were on. My glim was that I

0:32:22.285 --> 0:32:24.685
<v Speaker 2>was awake at four am when the athletes will winning

0:32:24.685 --> 0:32:27.165
<v Speaker 2>the gold medals one. No one else was absolutely awake

0:32:27.165 --> 0:32:29.645
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't sleep because of the drugs. So my

0:32:29.725 --> 0:32:35.365
<v Speaker 2>glimmer as I watched that live, I.

0:32:35.405 --> 0:32:37.645
<v Speaker 1>Am watching the Olympics in the drug you.

0:32:37.605 --> 0:32:40.085
<v Speaker 2>Know, on the on the TV that my cousins had

0:32:40.125 --> 0:32:41.925
<v Speaker 2>so beautifully said, We're going to put a TV on

0:32:41.925 --> 0:32:44.845
<v Speaker 2>your wall because you're going to be in bed a

0:32:44.885 --> 0:32:46.965
<v Speaker 2>lot and it was. It was the most amazing gift.

0:32:47.685 --> 0:32:49.685
<v Speaker 2>If anyone wants a real flex gift to give someone,

0:32:49.725 --> 0:32:52.485
<v Speaker 2>that's amazing. On the wall, Oh my.

0:32:52.365 --> 0:32:54.925
<v Speaker 1>God, this is the range. This is like a bridal registry.

0:32:54.965 --> 0:32:57.925
<v Speaker 1>The range is like glimmers are free, is a free

0:32:58.085 --> 0:33:02.045
<v Speaker 1>mount wall on the you know, I said.

0:33:01.885 --> 0:33:03.525
<v Speaker 2>To the other day, there's so many good free things,

0:33:03.525 --> 0:33:05.525
<v Speaker 2>like you've got someone in crisis gift. Then the logins

0:33:05.525 --> 0:33:09.885
<v Speaker 2>to your streaming services. That's a great, such a help.

0:33:10.325 --> 0:33:12.085
<v Speaker 1>I know that we could. I don't want to rush

0:33:12.285 --> 0:33:14.805
<v Speaker 1>through this, but at the same time, I want to

0:33:14.805 --> 0:33:17.445
<v Speaker 1>get to the point where so you, as you discussed,

0:33:17.445 --> 0:33:22.605
<v Speaker 1>you're going through this very, very grueling period and you've

0:33:22.605 --> 0:33:24.165
<v Speaker 1>just said some of the things that helped you a

0:33:24.205 --> 0:33:27.805
<v Speaker 1>little bit through that time. A typical if there was

0:33:27.845 --> 0:33:31.085
<v Speaker 1>such a thing day week about time, what was it

0:33:31.245 --> 0:33:34.565
<v Speaker 1>like what might be happening in your world when your

0:33:34.605 --> 0:33:37.245
<v Speaker 1>whole world is cancer at that time? Because it was

0:33:37.365 --> 0:33:39.205
<v Speaker 1>like it's.

0:33:39.085 --> 0:33:41.365
<v Speaker 2>Your whole world. Yes, yeah, I mean everything grinds to

0:33:41.405 --> 0:33:43.085
<v Speaker 2>a whole really really really really quickly.

0:33:43.285 --> 0:33:44.605
<v Speaker 1>You had to obviously stop working.

0:33:44.685 --> 0:33:46.645
<v Speaker 2>Oh I stopped working. I gave my client, you know,

0:33:46.765 --> 0:33:48.485
<v Speaker 2>got people to step in and take on the work

0:33:48.565 --> 0:33:49.285
<v Speaker 2>that I was doing.

0:33:50.925 --> 0:33:53.525
<v Speaker 1>The phone to me sometimes going like I think I

0:33:53.565 --> 0:33:57.365
<v Speaker 1>could maybe do this job in between this and this

0:33:57.405 --> 0:33:59.685
<v Speaker 1>and this, and then they're like stop it.

0:33:59.805 --> 0:34:02.405
<v Speaker 2>Anyhow, Yeah, everything came to a whole, moved home to

0:34:02.525 --> 0:34:07.325
<v Speaker 2>mum's house, simplified life massively. And it's a weird feeling

0:34:07.325 --> 0:34:09.085
<v Speaker 2>like that just before came. I starts like, you've had

0:34:09.125 --> 0:34:13.245
<v Speaker 2>so surgery. I didn't find too bad in terms of recovery.

0:34:13.325 --> 0:34:15.445
<v Speaker 2>It's big, and it's it's messy, and it's yucky and

0:34:15.485 --> 0:34:17.925
<v Speaker 2>it's a bit sore, but it wasn't it wasn't terrible.

0:34:18.605 --> 0:34:20.325
<v Speaker 2>But then when you know that chemo's coming, you're like

0:34:20.365 --> 0:34:22.285
<v Speaker 2>getting ready to be sick, which is a really really

0:34:22.525 --> 0:34:25.005
<v Speaker 2>interesting feeling. And you know, even I remember on that

0:34:25.085 --> 0:34:27.645
<v Speaker 2>drive two chemo on that first day, it's like it's

0:34:27.685 --> 0:34:31.005
<v Speaker 2>a yeah, getting yourself ready for that.

0:34:31.125 --> 0:34:33.205
<v Speaker 1>But is there any part of you? This might sound

0:34:33.245 --> 0:34:36.885
<v Speaker 1>like a really silly question, but this is an experience

0:34:37.325 --> 0:34:42.405
<v Speaker 1>that thankfully most of us will not have. But you've

0:34:42.445 --> 0:34:46.525
<v Speaker 1>all seen it on the telly, right, We've all seen

0:34:47.365 --> 0:34:51.085
<v Speaker 1>what chemo therapy looks like on the telly. Is there

0:34:51.125 --> 0:34:52.765
<v Speaker 1>any part of and we know it makes you sick.

0:34:52.845 --> 0:34:54.605
<v Speaker 1>That's what that's mostly what we know. The things I

0:34:54.645 --> 0:34:57.165
<v Speaker 1>would have known. It makes you lose your hair, and

0:34:57.205 --> 0:34:59.405
<v Speaker 1>it makes you sick. Is there any part of you

0:34:59.445 --> 0:35:01.365
<v Speaker 1>that's like, it's not going to make me sick.

0:35:03.445 --> 0:35:07.205
<v Speaker 2>I will be the one who doesn't. And you know what,

0:35:07.245 --> 0:35:09.165
<v Speaker 2>I sort of. They tell you so many things, but

0:35:09.485 --> 0:35:13.525
<v Speaker 2>you can't attach to a lot of it. And one

0:35:13.525 --> 0:35:14.805
<v Speaker 2>of the things they tell you is that we give

0:35:14.845 --> 0:35:17.845
<v Speaker 2>you steroids. At the same time that you're getting your chemo,

0:35:18.085 --> 0:35:21.005
<v Speaker 2>we're giving you steroids. And the technology has come so

0:35:21.125 --> 0:35:24.285
<v Speaker 2>far these days that they can offset a lot of

0:35:24.285 --> 0:35:28.445
<v Speaker 2>the side effects with other drugs. But I remember I

0:35:28.485 --> 0:35:31.125
<v Speaker 2>came home from the first chemo and I woke up

0:35:31.125 --> 0:35:33.645
<v Speaker 2>the next day and I'm like, I'm fine, I'm good.

0:35:34.165 --> 0:35:37.925
<v Speaker 2>This does not affect me. I am I am okay.

0:35:38.405 --> 0:35:41.725
<v Speaker 2>And I went for a walk and about twenty minutes,

0:35:41.765 --> 0:35:43.405
<v Speaker 2>you know, Muther called Mum when I was like, my

0:35:43.525 --> 0:35:46.965
<v Speaker 2>chest hurts, and I ended up at home on the

0:35:46.965 --> 0:35:50.205
<v Speaker 2>phone to the doctors at the GP getting acgs. And

0:35:50.245 --> 0:35:52.645
<v Speaker 2>the next day I just came crashing down. And so

0:35:52.725 --> 0:35:54.165
<v Speaker 2>what I learned is that you've got a couple of

0:35:54.285 --> 0:35:56.965
<v Speaker 2>days of feeling okay, and then it hits you. So

0:35:57.085 --> 0:35:59.565
<v Speaker 2>back to your question about what though that time looked like.

0:36:00.325 --> 0:36:02.725
<v Speaker 2>I started with four rounds of very very intense chemo

0:36:02.845 --> 0:36:05.925
<v Speaker 2>they call it the Red Devil. That was every two weeks,

0:36:06.205 --> 0:36:07.765
<v Speaker 2>and so you sort of would go in, have your

0:36:07.765 --> 0:36:12.565
<v Speaker 2>treatment for a couple of days of feeling okay, and

0:36:12.605 --> 0:36:14.445
<v Speaker 2>then it would sort of hit. So I've had treatment

0:36:14.485 --> 0:36:17.285
<v Speaker 2>on the Thursday. By the Sunday, I was really starting

0:36:17.285 --> 0:36:19.405
<v Speaker 2>to feel it. By the Monday, I couldn't get out

0:36:19.445 --> 0:36:21.965
<v Speaker 2>of bed. And that was a few days of that,

0:36:22.645 --> 0:36:24.245
<v Speaker 2>and then you to de fine. After about a week,

0:36:24.245 --> 0:36:26.125
<v Speaker 2>you're sort of starting to feel yourself again. You have

0:36:26.165 --> 0:36:28.365
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days of grace where you like, let's

0:36:28.445 --> 0:36:32.165
<v Speaker 2>fucking live for a couple of days, and then you

0:36:32.165 --> 0:36:33.925
<v Speaker 2>get yourself ready to go back in and do it again.

0:36:34.245 --> 0:36:36.045
<v Speaker 2>And so I did four doses of the very very

0:36:36.085 --> 0:36:41.045
<v Speaker 2>intense chemo and then twelve doses which became weekly. Still

0:36:41.085 --> 0:36:45.445
<v Speaker 2>an incredibly intense chemo, but not quite as as like that.

0:36:45.445 --> 0:36:51.965
<v Speaker 2>That part I found excruciating. It just felt like I

0:36:51.965 --> 0:36:54.365
<v Speaker 2>think I remember at dose five or six, I kept

0:36:54.365 --> 0:36:56.845
<v Speaker 2>saying to people, I feel like I'm running a marathon

0:36:57.325 --> 0:37:00.765
<v Speaker 2>where the adrenaline of the start has worn off. I'm

0:37:00.805 --> 0:37:03.125
<v Speaker 2>like at a kilometer of fourteen or something, you know,

0:37:03.245 --> 0:37:05.125
<v Speaker 2>like I cannot see the finish line for the life

0:37:05.165 --> 0:37:08.885
<v Speaker 2>of me, and I'm just in it. And that part

0:37:08.925 --> 0:37:13.765
<v Speaker 2>was really hard. Yeah, And it was just monotonous and boring.

0:37:15.645 --> 0:37:19.285
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I remember I probably said to you, like,

0:37:19.445 --> 0:37:21.325
<v Speaker 2>don't most people like write books or something while they

0:37:21.325 --> 0:37:24.125
<v Speaker 2>have cancer? Like I'm not doing enough? Was watching TV.

0:37:24.325 --> 0:37:25.845
<v Speaker 1>This is very classic Lucy.

0:37:26.045 --> 0:37:28.365
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so long hard time.

0:37:28.565 --> 0:37:30.725
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know how I said. What we all know

0:37:30.765 --> 0:37:32.365
<v Speaker 1>about chemo is it makes you sick and you lose

0:37:32.405 --> 0:37:34.685
<v Speaker 1>your hair. You've got hair? What did you do?

0:37:34.805 --> 0:37:35.485
<v Speaker 2>I do have hair.

0:37:37.005 --> 0:37:40.445
<v Speaker 1>I remember. I remember, like you being having a lot

0:37:40.485 --> 0:37:42.565
<v Speaker 1>of thoughts about that, feelings about that.

0:37:42.845 --> 0:37:45.205
<v Speaker 2>I still do. Yeah, you know, I was convinced I

0:37:45.245 --> 0:37:47.525
<v Speaker 2>was going to our good mate Sally Hapworth took me

0:37:47.525 --> 0:37:50.005
<v Speaker 2>a wig shopping. She did, yeah, preemptive wik shopping, and

0:37:50.005 --> 0:37:52.045
<v Speaker 2>I still have the week that we bought in my carpet.

0:37:54.485 --> 0:37:58.325
<v Speaker 2>I there's a technology they offer some rest cancer patients

0:37:58.365 --> 0:38:02.005
<v Speaker 2>called a cold cap, which is essentially what it does

0:38:02.125 --> 0:38:03.805
<v Speaker 2>is it's a it's a cap or like almost like

0:38:03.805 --> 0:38:06.285
<v Speaker 2>a helmet that you wear on your head. During chemo,

0:38:06.485 --> 0:38:09.805
<v Speaker 2>and it pumps freezing cold liquid across your head.

0:38:10.125 --> 0:38:12.245
<v Speaker 1>That sounds awful. It was awful, but it's probably the

0:38:12.325 --> 0:38:13.645
<v Speaker 1>least a few problems in that minute.

0:38:14.765 --> 0:38:17.405
<v Speaker 2>It's probably one of the harder parts. I really love it, yeah,

0:38:17.485 --> 0:38:21.085
<v Speaker 2>and it really hurts. But the way it works is

0:38:21.085 --> 0:38:24.525
<v Speaker 2>that it essentially freezes the hair follicles so that the

0:38:24.605 --> 0:38:28.325
<v Speaker 2>chemo doesn't hit them because the chemo is attacking cells

0:38:28.325 --> 0:38:33.085
<v Speaker 2>that are multiplying which hair hairs. True, so I decided

0:38:33.085 --> 0:38:35.125
<v Speaker 2>to give it a go. It never is one hundred

0:38:35.125 --> 0:38:37.805
<v Speaker 2>percent effective. They say fifty sixty percent if you're lucky.

0:38:38.445 --> 0:38:41.325
<v Speaker 2>And so I still lost a lot of hair, like

0:38:41.365 --> 0:38:43.285
<v Speaker 2>the cap of my head, and I've got this like

0:38:43.405 --> 0:38:45.445
<v Speaker 2>weird re growth going on at the moment. I spent

0:38:45.485 --> 0:38:48.325
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time pushing it down and the sides,

0:38:49.045 --> 0:38:50.645
<v Speaker 2>but I did keep my hair a lot of it,

0:38:51.485 --> 0:38:54.605
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if it was worth it, to

0:38:54.605 --> 0:38:56.445
<v Speaker 2>be honest, Like you have to wear it for an

0:38:56.445 --> 0:38:58.805
<v Speaker 2>hour before camo, during camo, on an hour after. So

0:38:58.925 --> 0:39:00.125
<v Speaker 2>when I was in the chair for five or six

0:39:00.165 --> 0:39:03.885
<v Speaker 2>hours at a time with this cap, it's like having

0:39:03.885 --> 0:39:05.565
<v Speaker 2>a really bad brain free.

0:39:06.125 --> 0:39:09.125
<v Speaker 1>But you must have felt strongly enough about not wanting

0:39:09.125 --> 0:39:11.445
<v Speaker 1>to your head to put yourself through that was that

0:39:11.485 --> 0:39:12.525
<v Speaker 1>an identity thing?

0:39:12.725 --> 0:39:14.165
<v Speaker 2>I think at the start, you're trying to hold on

0:39:15.045 --> 0:39:19.125
<v Speaker 2>to everything who you were. And I remember very very

0:39:19.125 --> 0:39:21.005
<v Speaker 2>clearly at the start, like I've got journal entries where

0:39:21.005 --> 0:39:24.285
<v Speaker 2>I was so scared of losing myself in all this

0:39:24.605 --> 0:39:27.525
<v Speaker 2>and who I would become afterwards. So I think, yeah,

0:39:27.605 --> 0:39:29.525
<v Speaker 2>they're giving you the option to lose your hair, which is,

0:39:29.565 --> 0:39:31.245
<v Speaker 2>you know, like how you look and how you present.

0:39:32.205 --> 0:39:33.645
<v Speaker 2>I thought I may as well give it a go.

0:39:34.845 --> 0:39:37.005
<v Speaker 2>About three or four sessions in I almost let it

0:39:37.045 --> 0:39:39.845
<v Speaker 2>go because it was so painful because my hair was

0:39:39.885 --> 0:39:42.765
<v Speaker 2>falling out anyway, and I kind of was like, I've

0:39:42.805 --> 0:39:45.365
<v Speaker 2>come this far in hindsight, if I had my time

0:39:45.365 --> 0:39:47.045
<v Speaker 2>over again, would I do it? I mean, it's hard

0:39:47.045 --> 0:39:52.245
<v Speaker 2>to say, but I mean it did. During treatment, to

0:39:52.285 --> 0:39:54.645
<v Speaker 2>be able to go out in public and not feel

0:39:54.685 --> 0:39:57.885
<v Speaker 2>like you were the cancer patient was quite a beautiful thing.

0:39:58.125 --> 0:40:00.365
<v Speaker 2>You know, I looked, I didn't look well. Let me be,

0:40:01.685 --> 0:40:04.805
<v Speaker 2>I did not look well, but it sort of allowed

0:40:04.805 --> 0:40:08.005
<v Speaker 2>me to sort of pretend like I was a regular

0:40:08.485 --> 0:40:11.645
<v Speaker 2>person in the world. But yeah, just if anyone's wondering,

0:40:11.765 --> 0:40:15.645
<v Speaker 2>that's that's why I have here, and it's it's another

0:40:15.645 --> 0:40:17.605
<v Speaker 2>thing that they don't always mention it, the doctors. I've

0:40:17.645 --> 0:40:19.685
<v Speaker 2>got other friends who do wasn't off at his adoptions,

0:40:19.685 --> 0:40:20.485
<v Speaker 2>so it's something to ask.

0:40:20.365 --> 0:40:26.205
<v Speaker 1>About coming up. Lucy tells us why it isn't over

0:40:26.645 --> 0:40:27.325
<v Speaker 1>when it's over.

0:40:31.685 --> 0:40:31.845
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:40:31.885 --> 0:40:33.445
<v Speaker 1>As I said, I don't want to rush to no.

0:40:33.485 --> 0:40:35.765
<v Speaker 1>I know I get the end in inverted comments because

0:40:35.765 --> 0:40:37.285
<v Speaker 1>it's not the end, because that's what I want to

0:40:37.325 --> 0:40:37.805
<v Speaker 1>talk about.

0:40:37.885 --> 0:40:38.045
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:40:38.405 --> 0:40:41.845
<v Speaker 1>You've told me in many ways that the end of treatment.

0:40:43.205 --> 0:40:46.045
<v Speaker 1>The perception is right. This is my perception again, back

0:40:46.085 --> 0:40:48.045
<v Speaker 1>to my perception of the things I don't know about.

0:40:48.125 --> 0:40:51.005
<v Speaker 2>But my perception too going into this is despite us

0:40:51.085 --> 0:40:53.285
<v Speaker 2>being i would say, reasonably smart.

0:40:53.005 --> 0:40:58.725
<v Speaker 1>One yeah, right, reasonably empathetic, silly, sometimes you get you

0:40:58.805 --> 0:41:01.925
<v Speaker 1>get to the end of treatment and hopefully you get

0:41:02.045 --> 0:41:04.845
<v Speaker 1>good news or the hope the promise of some good news,

0:41:05.205 --> 0:41:11.445
<v Speaker 1>and everything's fine. Everything, everything's fine. Back to now, I

0:41:11.485 --> 0:41:14.205
<v Speaker 1>want you to talk to me about this part because

0:41:14.205 --> 0:41:16.765
<v Speaker 1>I know I'm not as you just described. It's not

0:41:16.805 --> 0:41:18.565
<v Speaker 1>like this bit's worse than this bit or whatever. You've

0:41:18.565 --> 0:41:21.605
<v Speaker 1>been through a no unbelievable thing. But what we've been

0:41:21.605 --> 0:41:23.805
<v Speaker 1>talking about a lot lately. And what your substack that

0:41:23.845 --> 0:41:27.605
<v Speaker 1>you've started a year of healing is about is kind

0:41:27.645 --> 0:41:31.085
<v Speaker 1>of what happens when it's over in inverted commers, because A,

0:41:31.205 --> 0:41:37.045
<v Speaker 1>it's not really over and be everything has moved around. Yes,

0:41:37.165 --> 0:41:39.205
<v Speaker 1>So talk to me a bit about that. Talk to

0:41:39.205 --> 0:41:40.605
<v Speaker 1>me a bit about the snow globe.

0:41:40.925 --> 0:41:45.005
<v Speaker 2>Oh, the snow globe. The snow globe. Look, there's so

0:41:45.045 --> 0:41:48.205
<v Speaker 2>many parts to this. I think the thing you learn

0:41:48.325 --> 0:41:52.605
<v Speaker 2>when you're in treatment is that it's ever changing. I

0:41:52.605 --> 0:41:56.365
<v Speaker 2>think you have a treatment plan, but then with every surgery,

0:41:56.405 --> 0:41:59.405
<v Speaker 2>with every scam, with everything, it changes, you know. So

0:42:00.125 --> 0:42:02.645
<v Speaker 2>for about a year, I mean the thick of it,

0:42:02.765 --> 0:42:05.205
<v Speaker 2>you know, and just like I end up having three surgeries,

0:42:05.285 --> 0:42:07.805
<v Speaker 2>six months of chemo, five months of chemo radiation and that.

0:42:07.885 --> 0:42:09.485
<v Speaker 2>So I come to the end of the radiation and

0:42:11.325 --> 0:42:15.045
<v Speaker 2>you're kind of like you're like headed for that line.

0:42:15.085 --> 0:42:17.325
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm just like everything in me is going towards

0:42:17.325 --> 0:42:19.125
<v Speaker 2>that line and being done with radiation or what they

0:42:19.125 --> 0:42:24.085
<v Speaker 2>call the active treatment, and I hit it expecting to

0:42:24.125 --> 0:42:29.205
<v Speaker 2>fully be like amazing, cool, I'm done, you know, we

0:42:29.205 --> 0:42:31.245
<v Speaker 2>can move on with life. And everyone around you is like,

0:42:31.325 --> 0:42:33.925
<v Speaker 2>you did it, You've you know, you've climbed the mountain

0:42:34.045 --> 0:42:37.645
<v Speaker 2>or you've beaten the thing, and I just can't stop

0:42:37.645 --> 0:42:42.405
<v Speaker 2>crying because you go from this life that you've thrust

0:42:42.445 --> 0:42:47.325
<v Speaker 2>into so incredibly quickly, which is then completely taken up

0:42:47.605 --> 0:42:50.485
<v Speaker 2>with hospital visits and doctors and scans and whatever. It

0:42:50.565 --> 0:42:52.125
<v Speaker 2>is like you know, for a while, and still my

0:42:52.165 --> 0:42:54.965
<v Speaker 2>Google Maps thinks that the hospital is work because we

0:42:55.045 --> 0:42:57.765
<v Speaker 2>go there so often, like that is your life. And

0:42:57.805 --> 0:43:02.565
<v Speaker 2>then suddenly you're done, and everyone's like, cool, well done,

0:43:03.245 --> 0:43:04.725
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, I don't know who I am anymore.

0:43:05.685 --> 0:43:10.165
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to be. I don't know. I

0:43:10.165 --> 0:43:14.645
<v Speaker 2>don't know where I belong. I don't know, like do

0:43:14.685 --> 0:43:18.045
<v Speaker 2>I work. My body doesn't feel like it used to.

0:43:19.285 --> 0:43:24.765
<v Speaker 2>I'm still overcoming all the you know, the physicality of

0:43:24.765 --> 0:43:26.605
<v Speaker 2>it all, like all the surgeries, all the chema, all

0:43:26.605 --> 0:43:27.605
<v Speaker 2>the radiation.

0:43:27.325 --> 0:43:30.525
<v Speaker 1>And you still also on a lot of medication, medication.

0:43:30.245 --> 0:43:32.805
<v Speaker 2>And so I don't know. My body doesn't feel like mine.

0:43:32.845 --> 0:43:34.805
<v Speaker 2>It's not really capful of much. And my head is

0:43:35.125 --> 0:43:40.205
<v Speaker 2>just starting to catch up with what just happened. But

0:43:40.245 --> 0:43:42.005
<v Speaker 2>will let's go on with life? And I just sort

0:43:42.005 --> 0:43:45.125
<v Speaker 2>of did that. I was like, okay, let's go started

0:43:45.125 --> 0:43:50.685
<v Speaker 2>taking meetings with clients, moved home to my house with

0:43:50.845 --> 0:43:55.005
<v Speaker 2>my gym that had become my like sanctuary, like somewhere

0:43:55.005 --> 0:43:59.405
<v Speaker 2>to go and to move through everything gently. Just was

0:43:59.445 --> 0:44:02.645
<v Speaker 2>all in at the same time. I just started on

0:44:02.645 --> 0:44:06.085
<v Speaker 2>this very very quite growling, ongoing treatment ragime like so

0:44:06.165 --> 0:44:08.045
<v Speaker 2>for certain types of breast cancer, and you do learn

0:44:08.085 --> 0:44:10.485
<v Speaker 2>a lot. There's so many different types of breast cancer

0:44:10.765 --> 0:44:14.685
<v Speaker 2>that affect treatment plans and you know, survivorship and everything

0:44:14.725 --> 0:44:18.525
<v Speaker 2>like that. To start on this big treatment regime of

0:44:18.565 --> 0:44:20.565
<v Speaker 2>drugs that will go on for many, many, many years,

0:44:21.085 --> 0:44:23.645
<v Speaker 2>and I'm off, like let's go, and I just came

0:44:23.685 --> 0:44:27.325
<v Speaker 2>crushing down completely. I ended up in hospital with a

0:44:27.365 --> 0:44:31.845
<v Speaker 2>fever sicker than I've ever felt, but supposed to be better,

0:44:32.885 --> 0:44:35.685
<v Speaker 2>and I couldn't quite marry up at all, like what

0:44:35.845 --> 0:44:37.885
<v Speaker 2>was going on here? But my head was just spinning

0:44:38.125 --> 0:44:39.565
<v Speaker 2>and I, yeah.

0:44:39.125 --> 0:44:42.005
<v Speaker 1>Do you get offered as a patient, because this must

0:44:42.005 --> 0:44:44.805
<v Speaker 1>be what happens to so many people? Do you get

0:44:44.885 --> 0:44:48.285
<v Speaker 1>offered counseling to deal with this? And what kind of

0:44:48.325 --> 0:44:49.525
<v Speaker 1>things do they say to you?

0:44:49.805 --> 0:44:54.405
<v Speaker 2>I say, this is incredibly normal, and I'm so lucky,

0:44:54.445 --> 0:44:58.045
<v Speaker 2>Like I was just the public hospital system, like I

0:44:58.085 --> 0:44:59.805
<v Speaker 2>went through public. There was a question of whether I'd

0:44:59.805 --> 0:45:03.925
<v Speaker 2>go private. I didn't have enough cover for that, but

0:45:03.965 --> 0:45:06.805
<v Speaker 2>I was considering paying for it. And then actually a

0:45:06.885 --> 0:45:09.085
<v Speaker 2>conversation with me as friend who's a research and she

0:45:09.205 --> 0:45:09.645
<v Speaker 2>was like.

0:45:09.805 --> 0:45:11.285
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. At the sidelines of the.

0:45:11.605 --> 0:45:15.325
<v Speaker 2>Side Sydney show, I was in this Oh my god,

0:45:15.365 --> 0:45:19.565
<v Speaker 2>my head was spinning about do I go private and

0:45:19.685 --> 0:45:23.445
<v Speaker 2>have a surgery like five days before the option of

0:45:23.485 --> 0:45:26.605
<v Speaker 2>the public surgery. It was going to cost me a

0:45:26.645 --> 0:45:29.245
<v Speaker 2>shit ton of money, but I was like, I need

0:45:29.245 --> 0:45:31.365
<v Speaker 2>to get it done now, right, you know, and all

0:45:31.405 --> 0:45:36.125
<v Speaker 2>the public option and mea said cave achat to my

0:45:36.205 --> 0:45:38.325
<v Speaker 2>bait and she was like, you are fine to wait

0:45:38.565 --> 0:45:40.765
<v Speaker 2>for the public system. Best thing I could have ever done.

0:45:40.885 --> 0:45:44.285
<v Speaker 2>I have had the most phenomenal care and treatment across

0:45:44.285 --> 0:45:47.925
<v Speaker 2>all that. So yes, they offer counseling, Yes they offer everything.

0:45:48.045 --> 0:45:51.005
<v Speaker 2>They are the most. I cannot could not fault them.

0:45:51.005 --> 0:45:54.645
<v Speaker 2>I call them my happy hospital. It has been absolutely incredible.

0:45:55.645 --> 0:45:59.045
<v Speaker 2>But what they tell you is that everything you are

0:45:59.085 --> 0:46:03.405
<v Speaker 2>experiencing is incredibly normal for cancer patient. But I've come

0:46:03.445 --> 0:46:07.845
<v Speaker 2>to realize that I think we have this perception in

0:46:07.885 --> 0:46:09.485
<v Speaker 2>the world, and I was guilty of it. I think

0:46:09.525 --> 0:46:12.365
<v Speaker 2>too that there's two paths out of cancer, and one

0:46:12.445 --> 0:46:15.725
<v Speaker 2>is fine and one is dead, and we make no

0:46:15.965 --> 0:46:18.805
<v Speaker 2>room for the stuff in the middle, which I've also

0:46:18.845 --> 0:46:21.125
<v Speaker 2>come to realize that so many people are suffering with,

0:46:21.565 --> 0:46:24.285
<v Speaker 2>but they mostly have to pretend to be fine because

0:46:24.325 --> 0:46:28.805
<v Speaker 2>that's that's a narrative. We want that, that's easier, that's nice.

0:46:28.805 --> 0:46:30.685
<v Speaker 2>How we want things tied up neatly in a bow.

0:46:31.285 --> 0:46:33.925
<v Speaker 2>We want happy endings. And it is a happy ending.

0:46:34.805 --> 0:46:36.965
<v Speaker 2>It just kind of hurts a bit on the inside.

0:46:37.325 --> 0:46:40.165
<v Speaker 1>It's not over that thing is really the ending.

0:46:40.445 --> 0:46:42.205
<v Speaker 2>It's not the ending at all. And I didn't answer

0:46:42.205 --> 0:46:44.605
<v Speaker 2>a question there about snowglows, but the snowglobe theory is

0:46:44.645 --> 0:46:47.365
<v Speaker 2>one that my psychologist shared with me when I was

0:46:47.365 --> 0:46:50.445
<v Speaker 2>in one of these these phases of going I just

0:46:50.445 --> 0:46:52.565
<v Speaker 2>don't know where I fit in anymore. And I'm still

0:46:52.605 --> 0:46:55.045
<v Speaker 2>in that phase, to be honest, Like I'm six months

0:46:55.085 --> 0:46:58.045
<v Speaker 2>out of active treatment, but only eighteen months since diagnosis.

0:46:58.085 --> 0:47:02.325
<v Speaker 2>Not even every day. It's still occupies so much of

0:47:02.325 --> 0:47:04.885
<v Speaker 2>my thoughts and my beings and just my life. I'm

0:47:04.885 --> 0:47:08.005
<v Speaker 2>still in appointments all the time, even though I'm clear out.

0:47:08.045 --> 0:47:10.525
<v Speaker 2>The snow globe theory, she said, you know. I was

0:47:10.565 --> 0:47:13.165
<v Speaker 2>talking to her and she picked up a snowglobe and

0:47:13.205 --> 0:47:15.045
<v Speaker 2>she held it to the camera. We do our sessions

0:47:15.045 --> 0:47:17.525
<v Speaker 2>on zoom, and she said, I want you and imagine

0:47:17.525 --> 0:47:19.325
<v Speaker 2>that your life is this snow globe and you're in

0:47:19.365 --> 0:47:22.005
<v Speaker 2>the middle of it, and you know, you're going about

0:47:22.045 --> 0:47:24.085
<v Speaker 2>your day and then boom, and she shook the snow

0:47:24.085 --> 0:47:29.885
<v Speaker 2>globe quite vigorously, and she said, all those little flakes

0:47:30.245 --> 0:47:32.765
<v Speaker 2>that are that are flying around now, they are your

0:47:32.845 --> 0:47:36.325
<v Speaker 2>values and they're your priorities, and they might be the

0:47:36.365 --> 0:47:38.765
<v Speaker 2>same as what they were before, but she said, they're

0:47:38.765 --> 0:47:41.525
<v Speaker 2>all falling into different places. So the things that you

0:47:41.565 --> 0:47:44.765
<v Speaker 2>once cared about, maybe you don't care as much anymore.

0:47:44.925 --> 0:47:47.165
<v Speaker 2>The things you didn't think you cared about, they're kind

0:47:47.165 --> 0:47:49.285
<v Speaker 2>of more important now. And you're kind of just stepping

0:47:49.285 --> 0:47:51.125
<v Speaker 2>your way through the snow and trying to figure out

0:47:51.805 --> 0:47:55.205
<v Speaker 2>where you belong in it all. And when she said that,

0:47:55.205 --> 0:47:56.845
<v Speaker 2>that was the most helpful thing I've ever heard, because

0:47:56.845 --> 0:47:58.565
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Okay, it makes sense now the snow

0:47:58.645 --> 0:47:59.285
<v Speaker 2>is still falling.

0:48:00.165 --> 0:48:04.325
<v Speaker 1>Stop putting the pressure on yourself answers, and not to

0:48:04.365 --> 0:48:07.285
<v Speaker 1>be back to normal is normal?

0:48:07.685 --> 0:48:11.165
<v Speaker 2>There is no normal. We call this the re entry

0:48:11.205 --> 0:48:13.645
<v Speaker 2>wobbles and they're going to go on for a while.

0:48:13.885 --> 0:48:16.885
<v Speaker 2>And she says, you know, typically two years is probably

0:48:17.005 --> 0:48:20.085
<v Speaker 2>from end of treatment is what it will take a

0:48:20.085 --> 0:48:22.565
<v Speaker 2>cancer patient to figure out what their new normal.

0:48:22.325 --> 0:48:29.485
<v Speaker 1>Is, you know, in that snow globe analogy, because the

0:48:29.525 --> 0:48:34.045
<v Speaker 1>other thing, which all not preconceptions is an experience like yours.

0:48:35.485 --> 0:48:38.045
<v Speaker 1>It is absolutely life changing, but that it changes your

0:48:38.085 --> 0:48:41.125
<v Speaker 1>perception of everything and what you want and clarity. Now

0:48:41.205 --> 0:48:44.325
<v Speaker 1>you said you got that clarity in the room when

0:48:44.325 --> 0:48:48.485
<v Speaker 1>they diagnosed you. Sitting here now like, do you feel

0:48:48.525 --> 0:48:51.245
<v Speaker 1>like this is a different Lucy. I want different things

0:48:51.245 --> 0:48:52.245
<v Speaker 1>and I know what I want.

0:48:52.525 --> 0:48:55.485
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel that? Yeah? I mean I'm not sure

0:48:55.525 --> 0:49:01.045
<v Speaker 2>of myself, you know, classic self doubta imposter syndrome through

0:49:01.085 --> 0:49:01.525
<v Speaker 2>all of it.

0:49:02.125 --> 0:49:03.205
<v Speaker 1>Are you proud of yourself?

0:49:03.285 --> 0:49:07.045
<v Speaker 2>I'm really proud of myself. Yeah, I'm really really proud.

0:49:07.085 --> 0:49:10.125
<v Speaker 2>And I think when I look back at cancer treatment,

0:49:11.245 --> 0:49:14.525
<v Speaker 2>it's the one thing in my life that I didn't

0:49:14.565 --> 0:49:17.205
<v Speaker 2>have a roadmap for how to do it. I wasn't

0:49:17.245 --> 0:49:19.125
<v Speaker 2>able to look at other people and so of say,

0:49:19.965 --> 0:49:21.925
<v Speaker 2>not that I've fit my life or my career following

0:49:21.965 --> 0:49:22.445
<v Speaker 2>other people.

0:49:23.325 --> 0:49:26.165
<v Speaker 1>Kind of like I'm very pit and ambitious.

0:49:27.125 --> 0:49:28.765
<v Speaker 2>But it was sort of the first time in my

0:49:28.805 --> 0:49:30.845
<v Speaker 2>life that I'd been really able to go this is

0:49:31.565 --> 0:49:35.245
<v Speaker 2>only me going through this with a huge amount of support,

0:49:35.285 --> 0:49:38.725
<v Speaker 2>like I am just the most beautiful family and network

0:49:38.765 --> 0:49:41.165
<v Speaker 2>of people who were behind me, but it's I'm the

0:49:41.205 --> 0:49:43.885
<v Speaker 2>only one in there, and how do I want to

0:49:43.925 --> 0:49:46.685
<v Speaker 2>do this? You know? And I was able to do that.

0:49:46.805 --> 0:49:48.205
<v Speaker 2>And back to that point where I said that I

0:49:48.245 --> 0:49:52.165
<v Speaker 2>wanted to find the fun and the love in it.

0:49:52.205 --> 0:49:53.765
<v Speaker 2>And I know people might roll their eyes at that

0:49:53.965 --> 0:49:57.765
<v Speaker 2>and be like, cancer fucking sucks, because it does. Somehow

0:49:57.805 --> 0:50:01.005
<v Speaker 2>through it, we were able to find that fun and

0:50:01.045 --> 0:50:03.805
<v Speaker 2>that love. Not all the time, but you know, that

0:50:03.965 --> 0:50:05.685
<v Speaker 2>night after I found out that I had chemo, I

0:50:05.685 --> 0:50:07.725
<v Speaker 2>called my family. I said, please come over. I'm making

0:50:07.765 --> 0:50:11.565
<v Speaker 2>pasta I don't know, And they came over and we

0:50:11.605 --> 0:50:13.485
<v Speaker 2>had dinner and we put the music on really loud,

0:50:13.485 --> 0:50:16.205
<v Speaker 2>and we just danced. That's one of my favorite memories

0:50:16.245 --> 0:50:19.405
<v Speaker 2>from my whole life, which is crazy, and you know,

0:50:19.525 --> 0:50:21.405
<v Speaker 2>just through it all, I just learned so much about

0:50:21.405 --> 0:50:24.365
<v Speaker 2>people and humans and our capacities to be there for

0:50:24.405 --> 0:50:28.125
<v Speaker 2>each other and to support each other and just to

0:50:28.725 --> 0:50:29.805
<v Speaker 2>like I just at the end of the day. I

0:50:29.885 --> 0:50:31.765
<v Speaker 2>just people are all the matters to me. Now I'

0:50:32.005 --> 0:50:36.325
<v Speaker 2>just nothing else really, So my whole world now has

0:50:36.365 --> 0:50:39.765
<v Speaker 2>become I've always had a very very close family, but

0:50:39.765 --> 0:50:42.965
<v Speaker 2>I'm leaning in harder and going I just want to

0:50:42.965 --> 0:50:44.365
<v Speaker 2>spend time with you, and I just want to spend

0:50:44.365 --> 0:50:46.885
<v Speaker 2>time with my friends, and I want to I want

0:50:46.885 --> 0:50:50.085
<v Speaker 2>to be present with people. I've got no desire to

0:50:50.325 --> 0:50:54.485
<v Speaker 2>rush through life anymore, so I don't over and never don't.

0:50:54.565 --> 0:50:57.765
<v Speaker 2>I don't like to overschedule anymore. I like to have open,

0:50:57.845 --> 0:51:00.525
<v Speaker 2>open days, or like, you know, if I'm seeing a person,

0:51:00.525 --> 0:51:02.565
<v Speaker 2>I'm not there's not something straight after us, so I

0:51:02.605 --> 0:51:04.765
<v Speaker 2>want to stay and hang for a while. I'm going

0:51:04.845 --> 0:51:08.205
<v Speaker 2>to do that and really really be with them. I've

0:51:08.205 --> 0:51:10.805
<v Speaker 2>also let the people I've had these huge networks, and

0:51:10.805 --> 0:51:13.685
<v Speaker 2>I was still like the first time in my life

0:51:13.685 --> 0:51:15.525
<v Speaker 2>I was able to kind of the world. But there

0:51:15.565 --> 0:51:17.565
<v Speaker 2>word boundaries is actually one that I don't love. I

0:51:17.605 --> 0:51:20.725
<v Speaker 2>have a complex relationship with it, but I will, for

0:51:20.765 --> 0:51:22.565
<v Speaker 2>the first time in my life to be like, actually,

0:51:22.565 --> 0:51:24.725
<v Speaker 2>I can't do that, or I don't want to do that.

0:51:24.885 --> 0:51:28.365
<v Speaker 1>Or it's given you a clearer filter and what to say.

0:51:28.125 --> 0:51:30.925
<v Speaker 2>Kind of hide behind cancer in a way because I

0:51:30.925 --> 0:51:33.445
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't say, but it was there. It gave me a

0:51:33.525 --> 0:51:35.525
<v Speaker 2>way to say no to things that I hadn't had before.

0:51:35.565 --> 0:51:37.085
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't had the ability to do the.

0:51:37.045 --> 0:51:39.205
<v Speaker 1>Extreme people pleasing behavior to need cancers.

0:51:39.205 --> 0:51:44.365
<v Speaker 2>You're extreme. You know you get to play the card

0:51:44.405 --> 0:51:46.005
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. I need to.

0:51:47.165 --> 0:51:49.645
<v Speaker 1>I've got two more things, yeah, okay, to ask you right.

0:51:49.805 --> 0:51:51.885
<v Speaker 1>One of them is about the Year of Healing, Yes,

0:51:51.965 --> 0:51:55.685
<v Speaker 1>because I remember when that came about. But tell me

0:51:56.365 --> 0:51:59.805
<v Speaker 1>how that's going, yeah, and how we extended it to

0:51:59.845 --> 0:52:00.645
<v Speaker 1>two years of healing.

0:52:01.005 --> 0:52:03.205
<v Speaker 2>It's going to be a lifetime, yes, I think it is.

0:52:05.125 --> 0:52:07.405
<v Speaker 2>It's like for you, Yeah, I mean the Year of

0:52:07.405 --> 0:52:09.605
<v Speaker 2>Healing came about, you know, about that time that I

0:52:09.605 --> 0:52:11.445
<v Speaker 2>had that full on extreme breakdown and you were there

0:52:11.485 --> 0:52:13.365
<v Speaker 2>for part of that. There was a night I was

0:52:13.405 --> 0:52:18.565
<v Speaker 2>in Sydney and I just lost it and I was somehow, Holly,

0:52:18.645 --> 0:52:20.645
<v Speaker 2>you may seem to be around for the big points.

0:52:21.645 --> 0:52:24.525
<v Speaker 2>We have this hotel, this hotel that we both stayed

0:52:24.525 --> 0:52:26.565
<v Speaker 2>at and we now call it the Breakdown Hotel, and

0:52:26.605 --> 0:52:28.165
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going back there, I know, Dar.

0:52:28.325 --> 0:52:31.165
<v Speaker 1>I'm staying there tonight, the Breakdown Hotel tonight.

0:52:32.485 --> 0:52:34.805
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everything was coming crashing down, and I realized that

0:52:34.965 --> 0:52:36.685
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't keep going at that pace and I wasn't

0:52:36.685 --> 0:52:39.325
<v Speaker 2>going to go back to normal. And so a very

0:52:39.365 --> 0:52:41.445
<v Speaker 2>very wise friend had said to me, who sort of

0:52:41.445 --> 0:52:43.485
<v Speaker 2>deals in this sort of sort of stuff, had said

0:52:43.485 --> 0:52:46.765
<v Speaker 2>to me, you need to take a year. You need

0:52:46.805 --> 0:52:49.525
<v Speaker 2>to stop for a year and do the work and

0:52:50.765 --> 0:52:51.285
<v Speaker 2>just get.

0:52:51.125 --> 0:52:55.165
<v Speaker 1>Yourself better, you know, And you've been writing about it.

0:52:55.405 --> 0:52:57.725
<v Speaker 2>And then I knew what happened because you the most

0:52:57.885 --> 0:52:58.565
<v Speaker 2>so loose.

0:52:58.605 --> 0:53:01.445
<v Speaker 1>Also, I know you don't want to hear deal with compliments,

0:53:01.485 --> 0:53:04.805
<v Speaker 1>but you are the most beautiful writer. And I hadn't

0:53:04.845 --> 0:53:07.885
<v Speaker 1>read anything that you'd written for so many years because

0:53:08.885 --> 0:53:11.885
<v Speaker 1>sifted right, and you've been doing other things, and so also,

0:53:12.525 --> 0:53:16.125
<v Speaker 1>you know, you've been writing about this journey the word Okay,

0:53:16.205 --> 0:53:18.965
<v Speaker 1>let's do it on the air of healing, and it

0:53:19.085 --> 0:53:23.565
<v Speaker 1>is so beautiful and it's connecting so beautifully. That's a

0:53:23.645 --> 0:53:24.885
<v Speaker 1>gift to peop.

0:53:25.285 --> 0:53:26.805
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I kind of had this inkling when I

0:53:26.845 --> 0:53:28.445
<v Speaker 2>decided that I was going to give myself a year.

0:53:29.205 --> 0:53:30.725
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what came over me, because you know

0:53:30.805 --> 0:53:33.205
<v Speaker 2>me as well. I've spent my whole career in the background,

0:53:33.525 --> 0:53:36.125
<v Speaker 2>like I've always been the producer or the behind the scenes.

0:53:36.845 --> 0:53:38.685
<v Speaker 2>Even coming here today, I was like, Holy, I've never

0:53:38.765 --> 0:53:42.605
<v Speaker 2>done this before. But for some reason, I wanted to

0:53:42.605 --> 0:53:44.925
<v Speaker 2>do it publicly, and I thought that if I put

0:53:44.965 --> 0:53:46.805
<v Speaker 2>a name to it and I told the world that

0:53:46.845 --> 0:53:50.885
<v Speaker 2>I was doing it, that it might hold me to it.

0:53:50.885 --> 0:53:53.565
<v Speaker 2>It's not really complex. It meant going back to mum's

0:53:53.565 --> 0:53:57.605
<v Speaker 2>house for a while and just being taken care of

0:53:58.285 --> 0:54:00.725
<v Speaker 2>while I figure it out. And it meant looking after

0:54:00.765 --> 0:54:03.205
<v Speaker 2>your body, looking after my body. Yeah, taking time like

0:54:03.245 --> 0:54:06.525
<v Speaker 2>health is a big priority for me, going to the gym,

0:54:06.565 --> 0:54:10.605
<v Speaker 2>trying all kinds of weird and wacky therapies. Wo woo shit.

0:54:10.685 --> 0:54:13.645
<v Speaker 2>I'm also into it. Let's do it more time with

0:54:13.725 --> 0:54:16.845
<v Speaker 2>the people I love. Let's focus on needing to get

0:54:16.885 --> 0:54:20.405
<v Speaker 2>back into the work or the stress or that any

0:54:20.445 --> 0:54:24.525
<v Speaker 2>of that. And yeah, it's just about time and writing

0:54:24.645 --> 0:54:26.525
<v Speaker 2>about it and just reflecting. And there's a lot of

0:54:26.605 --> 0:54:30.205
<v Speaker 2>healing in the writing. And instead of putting those thoughts

0:54:30.245 --> 0:54:33.085
<v Speaker 2>to paper, I've been able to kind of figure out

0:54:33.085 --> 0:54:34.885
<v Speaker 2>how I feel about it all to you.

0:54:35.045 --> 0:54:39.845
<v Speaker 1>And for other people, I think, Okay, let's we've got

0:54:39.885 --> 0:54:41.725
<v Speaker 1>to leave people with this. I want you to tell

0:54:41.805 --> 0:54:43.885
<v Speaker 1>me what you want every woman hearing this to walk

0:54:43.925 --> 0:54:46.565
<v Speaker 1>away thinking about because we're releasing this at the very

0:54:46.765 --> 0:54:49.565
<v Speaker 1>end of Breast cancer Month, right, Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

0:54:50.125 --> 0:54:52.405
<v Speaker 1>And I think in the same way that I was

0:54:52.405 --> 0:54:54.045
<v Speaker 1>saying at the beginning that I think that in lots

0:54:54.085 --> 0:54:56.525
<v Speaker 1>of ways we've become quite complacent about breast cancer. I

0:54:56.525 --> 0:54:59.005
<v Speaker 1>think even in Breast Cancer Awareness Month is like this

0:54:59.205 --> 0:55:01.845
<v Speaker 1>haze of pink and we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, But like,

0:55:02.005 --> 0:55:04.525
<v Speaker 1>what's the thing you really want people to hear from

0:55:04.525 --> 0:55:05.325
<v Speaker 1>this conversation?

0:55:06.005 --> 0:55:07.605
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Like I said before, I think we're all aware

0:55:07.605 --> 0:55:10.245
<v Speaker 2>of breast cancer. The month has on its job. We

0:55:10.285 --> 0:55:13.245
<v Speaker 2>know that breast cancer exists, but do we really know

0:55:13.285 --> 0:55:16.165
<v Speaker 2>what it entails. I don't think we do what I

0:55:16.245 --> 0:55:18.765
<v Speaker 2>want people to know. And this is you know, I

0:55:18.805 --> 0:55:21.605
<v Speaker 2>think October is amazing because it does give us a

0:55:21.645 --> 0:55:24.445
<v Speaker 2>reason to talk about it and a focus. But you know,

0:55:24.485 --> 0:55:29.605
<v Speaker 2>this is ongoing. What I've learned is that early detection

0:55:30.165 --> 0:55:32.805
<v Speaker 2>to save lives is there's a line they say. I

0:55:32.845 --> 0:55:34.565
<v Speaker 2>think it's really easy to think that it's not going

0:55:34.645 --> 0:55:37.045
<v Speaker 2>to be me. I didn't think it would be me.

0:55:38.205 --> 0:55:40.085
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm too young for breast cancer. I have

0:55:40.165 --> 0:55:43.605
<v Speaker 2>no family history, I'm not too young for breast cancer.

0:55:44.245 --> 0:55:46.245
<v Speaker 2>I've got a whole lot of new friends, you know,

0:55:46.365 --> 0:55:48.765
<v Speaker 2>I mean a support group that's all young people with

0:55:48.805 --> 0:55:53.125
<v Speaker 2>breast cancer. We're not too young for breast cancer. And

0:55:53.205 --> 0:55:55.605
<v Speaker 2>most of us don't have family histories. And we've also

0:55:55.805 --> 0:55:57.245
<v Speaker 2>you know, come to know that. I think it's over

0:55:57.405 --> 0:56:00.125
<v Speaker 2>ninety about ninety percent of people who are diagnosed don't

0:56:00.125 --> 0:56:02.965
<v Speaker 2>have a family history. There's a real misconception on that.

0:56:03.605 --> 0:56:05.845
<v Speaker 2>I just want people to this beautiful campaign at the

0:56:05.845 --> 0:56:08.685
<v Speaker 2>moment out by Breast Cancer Network Australia. It's all about

0:56:08.765 --> 0:56:11.365
<v Speaker 2>knowing your breast. So you could head to their website

0:56:11.405 --> 0:56:12.965
<v Speaker 2>and have a look and they talk you through how

0:56:13.005 --> 0:56:15.485
<v Speaker 2>to know your breasts and that's through look so by

0:56:15.525 --> 0:56:18.645
<v Speaker 2>looking at them, also by feel so that if something

0:56:18.685 --> 0:56:21.845
<v Speaker 2>does change, whether it is you can feel a lump,

0:56:22.325 --> 0:56:25.085
<v Speaker 2>there can be other signs like your nipple can be inverted.

0:56:25.165 --> 0:56:29.605
<v Speaker 2>There can be god a rash or indent or something

0:56:29.725 --> 0:56:33.205
<v Speaker 2>like that that you're aware of it. And then also

0:56:34.085 --> 0:56:36.885
<v Speaker 2>if you're eligible and it's over forty in Australia, you're

0:56:36.885 --> 0:56:39.485
<v Speaker 2>eligible for a mamogram. I don't think that necessarily means

0:56:39.525 --> 0:56:40.965
<v Speaker 2>you have to run off and get one, but talk

0:56:41.005 --> 0:56:43.285
<v Speaker 2>to your GP about whether you should be getting one.

0:56:44.125 --> 0:56:46.285
<v Speaker 2>And if you're over fifty, you'll actually get letters from

0:56:46.325 --> 0:56:49.285
<v Speaker 2>the government to say, hey, have you been lately. I

0:56:49.325 --> 0:56:53.005
<v Speaker 2>want us all to be asking our friends. So, Holly,

0:56:53.445 --> 0:56:54.725
<v Speaker 2>when was your last mamogram?

0:56:55.005 --> 0:56:59.205
<v Speaker 1>I go religiously now, so it was about six months ago.

0:57:00.085 --> 0:57:03.645
<v Speaker 1>I'm over fifty, so I get my letter in the mail.

0:57:03.725 --> 0:57:07.925
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing, it's free, it's quick, it's easy. The women

0:57:07.965 --> 0:57:12.805
<v Speaker 1>there are great. And I have an am sometimes guilty

0:57:12.925 --> 0:57:16.885
<v Speaker 1>of ignoring my body and what it's telling me because

0:57:16.925 --> 0:57:20.885
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, busy, busy, busy, busy, too busy, But this,

0:57:21.645 --> 0:57:25.565
<v Speaker 1>I don't fuck around with this, especially not since you

0:57:26.285 --> 0:57:29.845
<v Speaker 1>and I know that you talking about this, which doesn't,

0:57:29.845 --> 0:57:32.405
<v Speaker 1>as you said, doesn't come naturally. But you've already really

0:57:32.405 --> 0:57:35.005
<v Speaker 1>helped some people who found things because you've nagged them

0:57:35.005 --> 0:57:35.445
<v Speaker 1>about it.

0:57:35.765 --> 0:57:38.525
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was telling you earlier. Two women have now

0:57:38.525 --> 0:57:40.845
<v Speaker 2>come to me and said, like I said, it's not

0:57:40.925 --> 0:57:42.725
<v Speaker 2>natural for me to be the one to talk about

0:57:42.965 --> 0:57:45.805
<v Speaker 2>staff and to share my story. But two women have

0:57:45.885 --> 0:57:47.765
<v Speaker 2>now come to me and said, either they have been

0:57:47.765 --> 0:57:51.285
<v Speaker 2>diagnosed or a relative of theirs has been diagnosed, because

0:57:51.285 --> 0:57:53.885
<v Speaker 2>they've read something that I've shared or something you know,

0:57:54.005 --> 0:57:56.685
<v Speaker 2>heard something that I've said, and I sort of had

0:57:56.685 --> 0:57:59.325
<v Speaker 2>this realization that Okay, I can do something with this

0:57:59.725 --> 0:58:03.565
<v Speaker 2>and we can make a bit of a difference, and yeah,

0:58:03.725 --> 0:58:06.765
<v Speaker 2>check you Boob's girls. Because as aware as we are,

0:58:06.845 --> 0:58:09.565
<v Speaker 2>there's still I think it's over twenty thousand women. Man

0:58:09.565 --> 0:58:11.725
<v Speaker 2>actually today, actually on the day we record is male

0:58:11.765 --> 0:58:12.805
<v Speaker 2>breast cancer Wednesday.

0:58:13.765 --> 0:58:15.525
<v Speaker 1>It's not even something you think about.

0:58:15.565 --> 0:58:17.925
<v Speaker 2>But they're getting diagnosed her and that's really important to know.

0:58:18.045 --> 0:58:19.925
<v Speaker 2>And there's a real shame that comes with it, come

0:58:20.005 --> 0:58:23.165
<v Speaker 2>with a man. And I really feel for them because, yeah,

0:58:23.285 --> 0:58:25.205
<v Speaker 2>so the man and the women just check and beware

0:58:25.285 --> 0:58:27.365
<v Speaker 2>that goes for all parts of your body. Just if

0:58:27.365 --> 0:58:29.685
<v Speaker 2>something's not right, I really really urge you just to

0:58:30.605 --> 0:58:33.605
<v Speaker 2>go to the doctor, to the GP. And I heard

0:58:33.645 --> 0:58:37.085
<v Speaker 2>something beautiful on a podcast the other day from a

0:58:37.125 --> 0:58:40.045
<v Speaker 2>woman in the US who has breast cancer. And she said,

0:58:40.165 --> 0:58:42.445
<v Speaker 2>because I think it's easy for gps to often be

0:58:42.525 --> 0:58:44.565
<v Speaker 2>like no, you know, to say you're too young. Well

0:58:44.565 --> 0:58:47.565
<v Speaker 2>that's probably not that. If you are really worried, she said,

0:58:48.605 --> 0:58:50.445
<v Speaker 2>pretend that you know me, Like, don't just say I

0:58:50.485 --> 0:58:53.525
<v Speaker 2>heard this thing. Say my friend Lucy was thirty seven

0:58:53.965 --> 0:58:57.325
<v Speaker 2>when she was diagnosed, so I'd really like you to

0:58:57.365 --> 0:58:59.765
<v Speaker 2>send me for an ultrasound or to refer me to

0:58:59.805 --> 0:59:03.245
<v Speaker 2>the right places, like please don't dismiss me and say

0:59:03.245 --> 0:59:05.645
<v Speaker 2>it's probably not right. And I thought that was really

0:59:05.685 --> 0:59:07.285
<v Speaker 2>helpful if you can sort of put a name to

0:59:07.285 --> 0:59:09.285
<v Speaker 2>it and say my friend. So please, I'm your friend.

0:59:09.965 --> 0:59:11.845
<v Speaker 1>Well I'm lucky enough that you really are my friend.

0:59:12.045 --> 0:59:12.965
<v Speaker 2>That's nice, isn't it.

0:59:13.565 --> 0:59:16.525
<v Speaker 1>So thank you Lucy Ormond for coming on and telling

0:59:16.605 --> 0:59:19.285
<v Speaker 1>us your story, because you know, I love you and

0:59:19.325 --> 0:59:22.285
<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm so proud of you and in awe of you.

0:59:22.405 --> 0:59:26.485
<v Speaker 1>And also I just can't imagine what you've been through,

0:59:26.525 --> 0:59:28.485
<v Speaker 1>even though I've been there, like to a point, I

0:59:28.525 --> 0:59:31.445
<v Speaker 1>can't imagine it. And I just want everyone listening to

0:59:31.485 --> 0:59:34.525
<v Speaker 1>this to do what Lucy tells them to do.

0:59:34.885 --> 0:59:36.605
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, hollywaen Right, I love you.

0:59:36.965 --> 0:59:41.525
<v Speaker 1>I love you too. Thank you so much for listening

0:59:41.605 --> 0:59:44.325
<v Speaker 1>to No Filter today. This episode means a great deal

0:59:44.365 --> 0:59:46.805
<v Speaker 1>to me. I'm sure you know why, and I'm sure

0:59:46.845 --> 0:59:49.685
<v Speaker 1>it does to you too. And just sending enormous love

0:59:50.125 --> 0:59:53.445
<v Speaker 1>to anybody listening to this who's been touched by cancer

0:59:53.525 --> 0:59:55.965
<v Speaker 1>of any kind. If you want to find out more

0:59:56.085 --> 0:59:58.765
<v Speaker 1>and find some resources to help you or anyone you

0:59:58.805 --> 1:00:00.405
<v Speaker 1>know or love. We're going to put a link to

1:00:00.445 --> 1:00:03.485
<v Speaker 1>the National Breast Council Foundation and to some other really

1:00:03.605 --> 1:00:06.845
<v Speaker 1>useful sights in our show notes. Sending enormous love to

1:00:06.885 --> 1:00:09.645
<v Speaker 1>you all. The executive producer of no film What is

1:00:09.725 --> 1:00:13.365
<v Speaker 1>nam A Brown? The senior producer is Bree Player. Audio

1:00:13.405 --> 1:00:16.605
<v Speaker 1>production is by Tina Mattaloff, and video editing is by

1:00:16.685 --> 1:00:20.805
<v Speaker 1>Josh Green. I'm Holly Wainwright and thank you as always

1:00:21.045 --> 1:00:30.645
<v Speaker 1>for listening to nofeld Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners

1:00:30.725 --> 1:00:33.805
<v Speaker 1>of the land. We've recorded this podcast on the Gadagal

1:00:33.885 --> 1:00:37.205
<v Speaker 1>people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to

1:00:37.205 --> 1:00:40.205
<v Speaker 1>their elders past and present, and extend that respect to

1:00:40.325 --> 1:00:43.365
<v Speaker 1>all Aboriginal and Torrestrate islander cultures.