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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: We have this perception in the world, and I was

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Speaker 2: guilty of it. I think too that there's two paths

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Speaker 2: out of cancer, and one is fine and one is dead,

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Speaker 2: and we make no room for the stuff in the middle,

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Speaker 2: which I've also come to realize that so many people

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Speaker 2: are suffering with, but they mostly have to pretend to

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Speaker 2: be fine because that's a narrative. We want. That's easier,

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Speaker 2: that's nice. How we want things tied up neatly in

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Speaker 2: a bow. We want happy endings.

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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to No Filter. I'm Holly Wainwright, and

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Speaker 1: I'm jumping into your feed today with a special extra

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Speaker 1: episode of No Filter to mark the end of Breast

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Speaker 1: Cancer Awareness Month. Now there's something a little bit selfish

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Speaker 1: for me about this conversation because it's actually with one

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Speaker 1: of my really good friends, Lucy Ormond. I worked with

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Speaker 1: Lucy a long time ago. We're going to tell you

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Speaker 1: a bit of the story of our friendship actually, and

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Speaker 1: we'd stayed in touch, and eighteen months ago everything for

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Speaker 1: her changed in her life when she was diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: breast cancer. Now what I need you to know about

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Speaker 1: Lucy before he listened to this conversation, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think any woman in Australia hasn't been touched in some

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Speaker 1: way by breast cancer. So it's both a very ordinary

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Speaker 1: and completely upending, extraordinary experience to go through and even

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Speaker 1: to support someone through. And I really wanted Lucy, who

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Speaker 1: has been through a great deal over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of years, to talk about the things that everybody doesn't know,

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Speaker 1: like what's the most useful stuff you can do when

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Speaker 1: somebody is right in that heat of finding out that

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Speaker 1: everything in their life has shifted in just a few

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Speaker 1: words to come out of their doctor's mouth, Why it's

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Speaker 1: not over when it's officially over, and what really happens

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Speaker 1: to your priority and your life when you go through

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Speaker 1: something as profound as this. Lucy is one of the

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Speaker 1: most generous, loving, also driven, busy, ambitious women I know,

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Speaker 1: and she has struggled, like everybody does, through this with

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out who she is, what it all means,

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Speaker 1: and now, because of who she is, what she can

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Speaker 1: do to help other women in the same situation. So

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Speaker 1: please join the table with me and Lucy and our

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Speaker 1: conversation about breast cancer. I want you all to meet

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Speaker 1: my friend Lucy Ormond. Hello, Luce, Hey, Holly Waynwright. That

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Speaker 1: is how she always addresses me.

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Speaker 2: You know how some people have those names where it

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Speaker 2: needs first name and surname. That's you, Hollywayne Wright.

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Speaker 1: And Louse. How did we meet?

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Speaker 2: Oh? We met at Mamma Mia. We did. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to say twelve years ago. Thirteen, it's billing now, eleven eleven.

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Speaker 1: I started at mom and Mia in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's too much maths for me.

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Speaker 1: No, no, yes, so that's eleven years ago.

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Speaker 2: We met a long time ago. Yeah, at Mama Mia.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I had been there maybe a couple of years. It

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Speaker 2: was the first ever of Mamma mea officers. I was

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Speaker 2: a junior writer and you came in as the fancy

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Speaker 2: magazine lady.

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Speaker 1: And I was very intimidated by all the cool young

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Speaker 1: people who knew what they were doing, Like you not cool.

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Speaker 1: This is the early day. This is kind of the

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Speaker 1: early days of digital media. It's crazy to think about now.

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Speaker 2: It was insane. It was a crazy, amazing, beautiful, wonderful time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: where you came into this chaos of just a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of women, and we sat around a table and

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Speaker 2: talked about ideas every day and turned them into content.

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Speaker 1: It was great.

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Speaker 2: It was a good time.

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Speaker 1: And then you left to go and do other things.

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Speaker 2: I left to go and do other things. After a while,

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Speaker 2: I moved back to Melbourne. I'm from Melbourne. Originally. I

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Speaker 2: moved back to Melbourne, worked in the Mama Mea office

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Speaker 2: down there for a while, and then eventually it'll be

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Speaker 2: my five or six years and just wanted to try

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Speaker 2: my hand at other things and made a bit of

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Speaker 2: a sidestep, still in women's media, but into the events world.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so tell everyone what you're doing. So we

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Speaker 1: and we stayed in touch, right, We did in touch,

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Speaker 1: and we would catch up when you'd come to Sydney

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Speaker 1: with increasing regularity, and then we'd go and drink wine,

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Speaker 1: a lot of wine dinner and put the world to

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Speaker 1: rights and looses. As anyone would know if they were

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Speaker 1: watching this video on YouTube. Is quite a lot younger

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Speaker 1: than me. But we because friends. Well, it's true, it's

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Speaker 1: called to have different generational friendships. Anyway. We digress is

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Speaker 1: just a number. Describe to me where you were the

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Speaker 1: life you were living in March twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: March twenty twenty four, it's what are a year and

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Speaker 2: a half ago, seems like a lot longer than that.

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Speaker 2: So I'd left MoMA MAA or twenty sixteen or something

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Speaker 2: like that, gone off and worked for an amazing organization

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Speaker 2: called Business Chicks, working in corporate events, women's media, traveling

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: I was always trying to catch you when she was

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Speaker 1: in between. I've been in La, I've been in the Bahamas,

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Speaker 1: I've been in this place. In that she was always

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Speaker 1: working a lot and traveling a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, working with some phenomenal people, making some really really

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Speaker 2: incredible events for women with some really really big known

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Speaker 2: like thousands of women in rooms with I can't even

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Speaker 2: it was the most phenomenal For years, you.

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Speaker 1: Didn't really I mean, your home is always Melbourne and

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Speaker 1: always you know, that's where your people are, but you

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Speaker 1: weren't really home for several years, right.

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Speaker 2: I was totally nomadic, a little bit in Sydney, a

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Speaker 2: lot in LA, occasionally coming back to Melbourne, New York, anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Like we were making events around the country. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was fast paced. It sounds glamorous. I mean the

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Speaker 2: reality of travel is very, very different. I never spent

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Speaker 2: more than a couple of nights in one bed. That

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Speaker 2: sounds weird, but you know what I mean. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was a beautiful, beautiful time. COVID changed a lot of

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Speaker 2: that obvious. The world came to a standstill and we

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Speaker 2: couldn't do events anymore, and that very much changed the business.

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Speaker 2: But I found myself sort of just after that. I'd

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Speaker 2: started my own business in twenty twenty three and started

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Speaker 2: working with a whole lot of amazing women, still in

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Speaker 2: that space, but sort of operating on more of a

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Speaker 2: contractor freelancer kind of basis and coming in and creating

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Speaker 2: events and strategies for some really really cool people. So

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Speaker 2: working with Jackie Oh and JM at Bestie's, working with

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Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow, we did that event the amazing lea Ye, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: I know, I know we didn't get you there. Lee's

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Speaker 2: and Sarah are we're creating disco clubs. I helped them.

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Speaker 2: And then, you know, back to your question of March

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, are in this beautiful, beautiful, full circle moment.

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Speaker 2: I've been contracted back to Mama mea to produce the

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Speaker 2: out Loud Tour, So Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, bigger than you'd

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Speaker 2: ever done before. We were taking it to the next

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Speaker 2: level and got about two thousand women in each city

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Speaker 2: living along. And I was just in this really really

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Speaker 2: lovely place where back to working with you and MEA

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Speaker 2: and I was flying up to Sydney a lot. My

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Speaker 2: business was feeling like it was starting to get somewhere,

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Speaker 2: but I was sort of happily settled in Melbourne thinking

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Speaker 2: about the future. I don't know, it was a really

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Speaker 2: nice time in life.

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Speaker 1: I remember that we went out for dinner one night

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Speaker 1: when you were in Sydney. We went to chester White

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Speaker 1: and Pot's Point. We ate some pasta with cheese, and

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Speaker 1: that's when you told me that you had something going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mentioned it, you know, in a night

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Speaker 2: where we jumped around to you know, your classic female

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Speaker 2: dinner ding ding ding bermitt Bam. Somewhere along the lines,

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Speaker 2: I said to you, Oh, I found a lump in

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Speaker 2: my breast. Don't worry, it's nothing.

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Speaker 1: We were sitting at the bar in chester White. I

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Speaker 1: remember eating like cured meat.

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Speaker 2: I reckon in this game of that night we spent

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds on it, probably because it was too scary

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Speaker 2: to talk about and I was evincing myself that it

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Speaker 2: wasn't anything. So we passed by that very very quickly,

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Speaker 2: and we moved on to the next thing.

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Speaker 1: And then the next time we talked about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in my memory is when we came down for the

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Speaker 1: Melbourne show and we caught up quickly before the night

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Speaker 1: before the show, and you said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I finally let you into what was really going on.

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Speaker 2: And it's something that I've realized about myself, is that

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Speaker 2: I try and shield people from what's happening, to protect them.

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Speaker 2: But the truth of what would happen, what had happened,

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Speaker 2: is that i'd actually to that point of that night

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Speaker 2: where I told you that I'd found a lump, had

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Speaker 2: actually been about three or four months earlier, end of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. I was thirty six at the time,

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Speaker 2: and I stumbled across a lump in my right breast.

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Speaker 2: And I say stumbled across because I wasn't checking for it.

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Speaker 2: I can't tell you exactly what happened, but at some

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Speaker 2: point I sort of grazed across my boob, felt a

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Speaker 2: sort of rid and a tenderness in that area. My

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Speaker 2: mum was with me at the time. I said, do

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Speaker 2: you feel what I feel? She said yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: booked him to the GP straight away. GP sent me

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Speaker 2: off for an ultrasound and I went for that ultrasound

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly, and I remember lying there and saying to

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Speaker 2: the ultrasound technician or the soamographer, I think we call them,

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Speaker 2: can you see what I'm feeling? And she said no,

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Speaker 2: I can't, so she out relief. She said, I can't

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Speaker 2: find it what you're feeling, and she checked it with

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Speaker 2: her supervisor and she said, we can't see anything here.

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Speaker 2: But here's what we want you to do is give

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Speaker 2: it a few months. If the lump is still there,

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Speaker 2: if you can still feel it, go back to your GP,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll reassess. And what we put it down

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Speaker 2: to that point, I don't know. I had done a

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Speaker 2: couple of rounds of elective egg razing that year, two

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Speaker 2: rounds of it, and we thought it might be hormonal,

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Speaker 2: and I'd done one really recently, so we thought that

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Speaker 2: it just might be something to do with that. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I put it away, locked in a little box, and

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Speaker 2: I'd say the next few months I thought about it,

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Speaker 2: but not too much. I didn't because that was still scary, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because if it was still there, I'd have to do

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Speaker 2: something about it. So maybe I'd sort of go off

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Speaker 2: live my life, do fun things, and then resolf and

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, I should check. And some days

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Speaker 2: it was really really present. Other days I sort of

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Speaker 2: struggled to find it a bit more. I reckon in hindsight,

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Speaker 2: that might have been again hormones with your cycle, you know,

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Speaker 2: get bigger for a bit in this small life, So

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Speaker 2: it might have just been where I was with my cycle,

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Speaker 2: that it was maybe sort of masking in there. Eventually

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Speaker 2: I got to a point, and this leads us back

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Speaker 2: to when we were, you know, on tour we'd just

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Speaker 2: done Sydney, where I kind of couldn't deny it anymore.

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Speaker 2: There was a lump there. It was still there, and

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Speaker 2: it started to sort of consume every single part of

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Speaker 2: my life, like I couldn't think or concentrate about anything

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Speaker 2: on anything because I kept thinking about this lump. So

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Speaker 2: so again not telling anyone one friend, I told I

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Speaker 2: may went back to the GP, who sent me off

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Speaker 2: to a specialist, and I went to see that specialist

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Speaker 2: who sent me off for a mammogram as the first step.

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Speaker 2: That mammogram fell the week after our Sydney show, just

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Speaker 2: before we did our Melbourne show. So by the time

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Speaker 2: I saw you on the Wednesday, I was kind of

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Speaker 2: in the thick of the process of getting diagnosed, I

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Speaker 2: would say. And so that night I shared with you

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Speaker 2: that I had gone to get a mammogram and a

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Speaker 2: notious sound had a just pretty standard to me. That morning,

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Speaker 2: left there, going home, was on a call with some clients.

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Speaker 2: I was having a rollicking good time with them. She

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Speaker 2: was just chatting about our plans and I looked down

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Speaker 2: at my phone and there was a text from the

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Speaker 2: mammogram technician and said, Halo c this is blah blah

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Speaker 2: from the blah blah hospital. We'd like you to come

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Speaker 2: in for some additional images, either this afternoon or tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh.

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Speaker 2: And at that point you're like, they're not fucking around.

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Speaker 1: When they say no, they say this afternoon or tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: They're like and then I Okay, So my clients, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I gotta go. I gotta go. Jumped in the car

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Speaker 2: and called the hospital on my way there because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not waiting I'm going to go right now, got

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Speaker 2: back to the hospital, walked into the waiting room, said

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Speaker 2: who I was. I didn't even get to sit down

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Speaker 2: before they came out and got me and took me

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Speaker 2: straight back into the room for more mammograms. And I

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Speaker 2: say more mammograms because they put me in one time.

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Speaker 2: And then she said, I'm going to take these images

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Speaker 2: and go and show my supervisor. And then she came

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Speaker 2: back in and she said, I'm just going to take

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Speaker 2: a few more images, and then she took them out,

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Speaker 2: and then she came back in and she said, IM

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Speaker 2: going to take a few more images, and then she

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Speaker 2: went back out, and then she came in and the

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Speaker 2: radiographer came in with her, and that's when they said

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Speaker 2: to me, there's something suspicious here and we'd like to

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Speaker 2: do bilpsi.

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Speaker 1: So the words were at that moment it wasn't it's cancer.

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Speaker 2: No, no, And that's the thing I've come to learn,

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Speaker 2: like through speaking to a lot of women, it can

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Speaker 2: be lots of things. You know, there's cis, there's benign lumps,

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Speaker 2: there's ridges of tissue. So yeah, biopsy was the next

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Speaker 2: stage in that. Well, you know it's something, yes, and

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Speaker 2: they said to me, we'd like to a biopsy. They

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Speaker 2: said we need a refer or. I said, can you

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Speaker 2: do it now? And they said, oh, we need a

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Speaker 2: referral from your specialist to do it now, so that

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Speaker 2: might take her some time. And I was like, call

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Speaker 2: it okay, cool, call her okay. Yeah, no, so they called.

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Speaker 2: They said go away for an hour and we'll get

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Speaker 2: this organized. At that point, I turned that one of

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Speaker 2: the women who was helping me earlier. Her name was Hannah,

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Speaker 2: and I said, do you think I should call my mum?

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Speaker 2: And she looked at me in the eye and said,

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Speaker 2: I would want my mum here about you. So at

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Speaker 2: that point I'm going outside the hospital and just called Mum,

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Speaker 2: called one of the girls from Mom and me are

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Speaker 2: actually because I was like, I can't.

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Speaker 1: You were meant to be.

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Speaker 2: I was supposed to be working out, doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of work, and we were doing this. Bless her. She's like,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about a thing, I've got this and just

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Speaker 2: sort of walked around the hospital in a days for

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Speaker 2: a couple of hours. Mum got there pretty quickly and

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Speaker 2: we waited and had a biopsy.

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Speaker 1: And that was the day when everything really changed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so, and then that was so

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Speaker 2: that was the Monday. Sorry I'm jumping around here. It

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Speaker 2: gets very very detailed in this world. By the time

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Speaker 2: I saw it was the Wednesday and had the biopsy.

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Speaker 2: I'd had an MRI. I'd met with my specialist who

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Speaker 2: was sort of like, there's something, but until we get

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Speaker 2: the results of that MRI and the biopsy, we don't know.

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Speaker 2: So when I saw you, I was like, hey, hoole,

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Speaker 2: all this stuff happened in the last few days, and

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Speaker 2: tomorrow morning before you go on stage and we do

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Speaker 2: the out loud show in Melbourne, I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: in and get some results. Yes, is their heads up?

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's all I remember, Yes, and yeah, and tell

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Speaker 1: me what they said on that morning.

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Speaker 2: I went in. Weird experience to go in knowing that

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Speaker 2: you kind of know at that point, when you've gone

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Speaker 2: through all those things, you've had enough time to sort

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Speaker 2: of get your head around it. You sort of know

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Speaker 2: what's coming, and you know that once you go through

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Speaker 2: that door, your life is going to be divided into

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Speaker 2: the before and after. But I went and I sat down,

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Speaker 2: and they don't beat around. There's no niceties when I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about the weather. She gets out of his paper

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Speaker 2: and she says, so it is a breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel in that moment, Like, as you say,

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Speaker 1: you've had the time and a way to stress, worry

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Speaker 1: panic about this, know that it's not nothing. But when

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Speaker 1: they say those words to you, how what happens?

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Speaker 2: Do you know what? I perflect on this a lot

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Speaker 2: and thought about that moment. It's not what I thought

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Speaker 2: it would be. It's not this like yet there's an

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Speaker 2: absolute pity in your stomach and nerves like I've never experienced.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, it's not that sort of like

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Speaker 2: harrowing cry kind of there's not a lot of shock

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Speaker 2: in it. Like I said, because you've sort of had

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Speaker 2: the time for me, this weird thing happened, and I

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Speaker 2: can only talk to my own experience that I felt

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Speaker 2: an insane amount of clarity in that moment, clarity in

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Speaker 2: how I wanted the next phase of my life to look,

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Speaker 2: and almost how I wanted the rest of my.

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Speaker 1: Life to look, and what was that Who.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be with me was really really clear,

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Speaker 2: Like I sort of had this vision. It was almost

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Speaker 2: like I got like a circle where I knew who

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Speaker 2: I needed to let know who was going to be

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Speaker 2: part of this. When I said journey, people have a

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Speaker 2: big problem with the word journey. I don't it's a journey.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what else to call it, wild ride, adventure, fuckery,

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Speaker 2: I don't, you know. But also how I wanted to

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Speaker 2: go through whatever it was that was to come. I

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Speaker 2: knew straight away I didn't want to be angry and

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be too sad. Something in me

333
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Speaker 2: was saying fun and love. I just want to try

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Speaker 2: for the best part. I'm not just SAT's not to

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Speaker 2: say that there hasn't been moments of extreme sadness and

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Speaker 2: anger and frustration, and it has been really really hard.

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Speaker 2: But I knew that I wanted to somehow try and

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Speaker 2: harness some element of love and joy in it. So

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Speaker 2: that was kind of happening. At the same time, there's

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Speaker 2: something you're knowing what it is, and I've learned through

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Speaker 2: this whole process, and I know we'll get into it

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Speaker 2: that when I have a plan and I know what's coming,

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Speaker 2: I'm okay. I can deal with that. It's knowing that

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Speaker 2: is the worst. So that lead up to the diagnosis,

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Speaker 2: or you know, after surgery, you get you know, you're

346
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Speaker 2: waiting sometimes seven ten days for the results or before scans,

347
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Speaker 2: after scans. That is the part that is so incredibly

348
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Speaker 2: uncomfortable and horrendous, and you know you can't I can't

349
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Speaker 2: function in those moments. But when she said it's breast

350
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Speaker 2: cancer and here's what we're going to do, I'm like, Okay, cool,

351
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Speaker 2: let's go do it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a break, but please come back,

353
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Speaker 1: because Lucy has a lot more to share about this

354
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Speaker 1: extraordinary time. One of the reasons why I really wanted,

355
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Speaker 1: obviously to talk to you for Breast Cancer Awareness Month

356
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Speaker 1: was because your story is like ordinary and extraordinary at

357
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Speaker 1: the same time right now, as in you know, this

358
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Speaker 1: happens to a lot of women. It happened to so

359
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Speaker 1: many And one of the things I wanted to get

360
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Speaker 1: across right is that on that day when you found

361
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Speaker 1: that out, and it was the day of the Melbourne show,

362
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Speaker 1: obviously you did tell me like the time we had

363
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Speaker 1: to spend together that night. No one else knew, well

364
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Speaker 1: one of the person knew on our tour, so I

365
00:18:43,405 --> 00:18:45,285
Speaker 1: kept like holding your hand of you okay, all those things,

366
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Speaker 1: but you got through it like the pro that you

367
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Speaker 1: are not that that's anything to be fated, but that

368
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Speaker 1: was just your situation. But what I wanted to get

369
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Speaker 1: to is the like I remember obviously being super worried

370
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Speaker 1: for you, super anxious for you. But also, and I

371
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Speaker 1: think a lot of people have this, I kind of

372
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Speaker 1: probably had a level of complacency about it too, because

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Speaker 1: I thought, she'll be fine, She'll be right, Like it'll

374
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Speaker 1: probably just be a little bit of maybe radio therapy

375
00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:14,805
Speaker 1: or whatever, which is not nice, but you know whatever,

376
00:19:15,205 --> 00:19:18,005
Speaker 1: it'll be all right, Like this is and when I

377
00:19:18,005 --> 00:19:21,045
Speaker 1: think about that now, I'm like idiot. But also I

378
00:19:21,085 --> 00:19:24,445
Speaker 1: think that people who aren't close to breast cancer for

379
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Speaker 1: lots of reasons, kind of think it's solved. You'll like

380
00:19:28,445 --> 00:19:30,485
Speaker 1: or that it's not. It's you know, we've got so

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Speaker 1: good at it now.

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Speaker 2: You know.

383
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Speaker 1: You just hear people saying that all the time if

384
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Speaker 1: you catch it early and so on, which I know

385
00:19:34,645 --> 00:19:37,165
Speaker 1: we'll get to that, but like, no biggie kind of

386
00:19:37,405 --> 00:19:38,885
Speaker 1: and obviously it's a biggie for you.

387
00:19:38,925 --> 00:19:39,845
Speaker 2: When I was scared, but you.

388
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Speaker 1: Know what I mean. And then so I want to

389
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Speaker 1: go to the day a little later. In that time,

390
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Speaker 1: it was a time when you were about to find

391
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Speaker 1: out kind of what was going to happen, and you know,

392
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Speaker 1: we'd all been saying, and you'd been saying, and you

393
00:19:52,925 --> 00:19:54,645
Speaker 1: know it would probably just be a little it won't

394
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Speaker 1: be a big deal. And I remember that I was

395
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Speaker 1: waiting for a call from you about that, and I

396
00:19:58,645 --> 00:20:01,205
Speaker 1: was in Sydney, New and Melbourne and the call didn't come,

397
00:20:01,405 --> 00:20:03,645
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh. And I messaged a mutual

398
00:20:03,685 --> 00:20:06,805
Speaker 1: friend of ours, Mon's, and I was like, I don't

399
00:20:06,885 --> 00:20:09,245
Speaker 1: like this. I don't like this. And she called me,

400
00:20:09,325 --> 00:20:11,005
Speaker 1: She's like, what do you mean. I was like, it's

401
00:20:11,045 --> 00:20:13,885
Speaker 1: taken you long. I don't like it. And that was

402
00:20:13,925 --> 00:20:16,605
Speaker 1: the day again where you found out that what was

403
00:20:16,645 --> 00:20:20,165
Speaker 1: ahead of you was not like, well just a little

404
00:20:20,165 --> 00:20:22,005
Speaker 1: bit of this or that, not that there's any such thing.

405
00:20:22,125 --> 00:20:23,805
Speaker 1: I know that, and being close to you and you're

406
00:20:23,805 --> 00:20:25,805
Speaker 1: explaining to me lots of different kinds of cancers. I

407
00:20:25,845 --> 00:20:29,405
Speaker 1: know that. But the day that that all shifted again, Yeah,

408
00:20:29,445 --> 00:20:30,205
Speaker 1: tell me about that.

409
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Speaker 2: I mean I think that I was the same. I

410
00:20:32,525 --> 00:20:34,645
Speaker 2: didn't think it was I knew it was big, but

411
00:20:34,685 --> 00:20:37,645
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how big it was. And I think

412
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Speaker 2: as a society or a world, we are aware of

413
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Speaker 2: breast cancer but we're not really aware of breast cancer.

414
00:20:42,725 --> 00:20:44,925
Speaker 2: And I even think about what I was initially diagnosed.

415
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Speaker 2: Like back to that conversation, I said to this specialist.

416
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Speaker 2: She told me, like, we're going to start with surgery,

417
00:20:52,285 --> 00:20:57,325
Speaker 2: we will definitely need to do radiation, question mark on chemotherapy.

418
00:20:58,405 --> 00:21:00,205
Speaker 2: It's definitely some other stuff, you know, and you only

419
00:21:00,205 --> 00:21:01,845
Speaker 2: hear a little bit. But I said to her, I'm

420
00:21:01,885 --> 00:21:05,405
Speaker 2: going to the US in July. And I said, is

421
00:21:05,445 --> 00:21:08,645
Speaker 2: that still okay? And she said to me, if you're

422
00:21:08,645 --> 00:21:11,565
Speaker 2: not doing chemo, you'll be doing radio. And it was like, oh, okay,

423
00:21:12,085 --> 00:21:13,085
Speaker 2: it's a bit more serious.

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00:21:13,205 --> 00:21:15,445
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not going to the US.

425
00:21:17,205 --> 00:21:19,565
Speaker 2: And but to your point, the day that you're talking

426
00:21:19,605 --> 00:21:22,485
Speaker 2: about is post surgery. So they go in and they

427
00:21:22,525 --> 00:21:24,365
Speaker 2: take the lump out. For me, it was a lumpectomy

428
00:21:24,485 --> 00:21:27,485
Speaker 2: rather than a full mistectomy. It depends on the patient.

429
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Speaker 2: And after the surgery, you go in and you find

430
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:33,765
Speaker 2: out the results of the surgery, because what they do

431
00:21:33,885 --> 00:21:35,445
Speaker 2: is they take out the lump and then they'll often

432
00:21:35,485 --> 00:21:38,605
Speaker 2: test the area around the lump to see if there's

433
00:21:38,645 --> 00:21:41,605
Speaker 2: any residual cancer there, and they'll also test a couple

434
00:21:41,645 --> 00:21:44,085
Speaker 2: of your lymph nodes to see if the cancer is spread.

435
00:21:44,645 --> 00:21:47,885
Speaker 2: And so I've gone in for this results. I went

436
00:21:47,965 --> 00:21:50,005
Speaker 2: on my own. I was very I just wanted to

437
00:21:50,045 --> 00:21:55,285
Speaker 2: go on my own. I don't know why I wanted to, Like,

438
00:21:56,405 --> 00:21:59,165
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going on my own. I don't

439
00:21:59,205 --> 00:22:01,445
Speaker 2: know what it's about. And I went in there and

440
00:22:02,325 --> 00:22:04,485
Speaker 2: I knew from the start, from as soon as I

441
00:22:04,485 --> 00:22:06,085
Speaker 2: walked in. And you can just tell, you.

442
00:22:06,005 --> 00:22:07,885
Speaker 1: Can tell from the energy in the room, look on

443
00:22:07,925 --> 00:22:08,605
Speaker 1: the doctor's face.

444
00:22:09,885 --> 00:22:12,485
Speaker 2: And they basically said that they tested those margins and

445
00:22:12,525 --> 00:22:15,645
Speaker 2: there was still cancer in those margins and that the

446
00:22:15,645 --> 00:22:18,365
Speaker 2: two lymphonones they had tested were both positive as well.

447
00:22:19,125 --> 00:22:21,285
Speaker 2: And what that meant, and she kept reassuring me, she

448
00:22:21,405 --> 00:22:25,005
Speaker 2: was so beautiful. You know, it's still curable. It's just

449
00:22:25,045 --> 00:22:27,405
Speaker 2: going to take a little bit longer. And I've got

450
00:22:27,525 --> 00:22:30,085
Speaker 2: you know, we've got this. It's all manageable. But what

451
00:22:30,125 --> 00:22:34,445
Speaker 2: it meant was that the road out of this just

452
00:22:34,485 --> 00:22:37,405
Speaker 2: went from maybe some surgery and some radiation to like, Okay,

453
00:22:37,445 --> 00:22:39,245
Speaker 2: this is going to take a while, and this is

454
00:22:39,285 --> 00:22:43,085
Speaker 2: like life is fully on hold while we figure this out.

455
00:22:43,125 --> 00:22:46,325
Speaker 2: And that's when they start talking about whole body treatment,

456
00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:49,245
Speaker 2: which means chemotherapy. But they ease you in in a

457
00:22:49,285 --> 00:22:50,925
Speaker 2: really beautiful way. So we're going to do some whole

458
00:22:50,925 --> 00:22:53,805
Speaker 2: body treatment and I'm like, is that chemo? When she's like,

459
00:22:53,845 --> 00:22:55,765
Speaker 2: that's chemo, and I remember saying, oh, that's a dang,

460
00:22:55,805 --> 00:23:01,085
Speaker 2: and she goes it is indeed a dang. Quite a

461
00:23:01,085 --> 00:23:05,605
Speaker 2: long road of huge yeah. Yeah. So from there we

462
00:23:05,605 --> 00:23:07,445
Speaker 2: were looking at it was we'd definitely have to do

463
00:23:07,485 --> 00:23:10,205
Speaker 2: more surgery to get that cancer out. Five months of

464
00:23:10,285 --> 00:23:14,645
Speaker 2: chemo on the cards almost straight away, then looking at radiation,

465
00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:17,725
Speaker 2: then looking at more therapies after that, intend tablet form.

466
00:23:17,765 --> 00:23:20,605
Speaker 2: So yeah, really really long road I wanted. I didn't

467
00:23:20,685 --> 00:23:22,165
Speaker 2: let you know because I just didn't know what to do,

468
00:23:22,285 --> 00:23:22,965
Speaker 2: I know, but then you.

469
00:23:22,965 --> 00:23:25,405
Speaker 1: Did, and I remember, I remember really clearly, not that

470
00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:27,925
Speaker 1: this is about me, but I hope that some of

471
00:23:27,925 --> 00:23:30,765
Speaker 1: the people listening to this as well as obviously women

472
00:23:30,805 --> 00:23:34,685
Speaker 1: who were thinking about themselves and their journeys, but friends

473
00:23:34,685 --> 00:23:36,725
Speaker 1: and loved ones. That's what I want to ask you

474
00:23:36,725 --> 00:23:38,685
Speaker 1: about now, because I remember very clearly where I was

475
00:23:38,725 --> 00:23:40,325
Speaker 1: when you told me that. It was in our old

476
00:23:40,325 --> 00:23:43,005
Speaker 1: office downstairs, and I was trying to find a corner.

477
00:23:43,005 --> 00:23:46,805
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember really clearly. Anyway, when you get

478
00:23:46,805 --> 00:23:50,165
Speaker 1: that news and you have a beautiful inner circle has

479
00:23:50,245 --> 00:23:54,445
Speaker 1: discussed and your mum, and so the news goes out. Yes,

480
00:23:54,565 --> 00:23:56,085
Speaker 1: this is going to be a hell of a year,

481
00:23:56,365 --> 00:23:58,765
Speaker 1: half a year, more than a year. Whatever happens. This

482
00:23:58,965 --> 00:24:01,485
Speaker 1: loose is this is it. Can you tell me a

483
00:24:01,525 --> 00:24:04,845
Speaker 1: little bit about what helped what didn't help? You know?

484
00:24:04,925 --> 00:24:06,405
Speaker 1: You know how people always say I don't know what

485
00:24:06,405 --> 00:24:09,765
Speaker 1: to do. Like, so you know, I was listening to you,

486
00:24:09,765 --> 00:24:13,245
Speaker 1: and obviously in another city whatever I mean, I decided quickly.

487
00:24:13,325 --> 00:24:14,645
Speaker 1: I just wanted to let you know that I was

488
00:24:14,685 --> 00:24:17,045
Speaker 1: thinking of you, and we established a little rhythm of that.

489
00:24:17,125 --> 00:24:20,485
Speaker 1: But like, what's helpful? What do you want people's villages

490
00:24:20,525 --> 00:24:22,245
Speaker 1: to know about moments like that.

491
00:24:22,165 --> 00:24:24,525
Speaker 2: In those moments when they've just found out someone they

492
00:24:24,565 --> 00:24:27,205
Speaker 2: love has breast cancer or cancer or any big shitty

493
00:24:27,245 --> 00:24:31,125
Speaker 2: life thing, big shitty life thing. Yeah, do something. Yeah,

494
00:24:31,885 --> 00:24:33,925
Speaker 2: I know that we can get really really lost in

495
00:24:34,805 --> 00:24:36,125
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say. I don't know what

496
00:24:36,165 --> 00:24:37,565
Speaker 2: to do. I don't know what she needs. I don't

497
00:24:37,605 --> 00:24:39,165
Speaker 2: know if I should be dropping around, I don't know

498
00:24:39,245 --> 00:24:42,165
Speaker 2: I should be calling. I do something. Just let that

499
00:24:42,205 --> 00:24:44,525
Speaker 2: person know that you love them, and you don't have

500
00:24:44,565 --> 00:24:47,805
Speaker 2: to find the perfect words, I don't think. I remember

501
00:24:47,805 --> 00:24:50,125
Speaker 2: one friend texted me and after a couple of days

502
00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:52,405
Speaker 2: and she said, I heard through you know, another friend,

503
00:24:53,285 --> 00:24:54,765
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to text you on that day

504
00:24:54,805 --> 00:24:56,085
Speaker 2: because I thought you might be doing this. And then

505
00:24:56,125 --> 00:24:57,485
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to text you the next day because

506
00:24:57,485 --> 00:24:58,805
Speaker 2: it was Mother's Day, and then I thought I won't

507
00:24:58,845 --> 00:25:00,245
Speaker 2: text here, and then in the end, I just wanted

508
00:25:00,285 --> 00:25:01,725
Speaker 2: to say I love you and I'm thinking of you,

509
00:25:02,245 --> 00:25:04,085
Speaker 2: and that's all you need to do. And I'm not

510
00:25:04,125 --> 00:25:07,485
Speaker 2: saying like if people don't text you, nothing is personal

511
00:25:07,525 --> 00:25:09,325
Speaker 2: in this world. Like we're all just trying.

512
00:25:09,125 --> 00:25:12,245
Speaker 1: To well, you've got something very big in front of you.

513
00:25:12,205 --> 00:25:16,365
Speaker 2: To deal with your I'm not worried about thinking to him,

514
00:25:16,365 --> 00:25:18,365
Speaker 2: just trying to get through and think about what is next,

515
00:25:18,365 --> 00:25:20,125
Speaker 2: which is huge, like trying to come to terms with

516
00:25:20,485 --> 00:25:21,925
Speaker 2: you know. At that point, I think I also like

517
00:25:21,925 --> 00:25:24,685
Speaker 2: I was just I was really really worried about my

518
00:25:24,685 --> 00:25:26,765
Speaker 2: fertility and all that, and I'd said have said to

519
00:25:26,845 --> 00:25:28,405
Speaker 2: them I did have some eggs on ice, and they

520
00:25:28,405 --> 00:25:29,885
Speaker 2: were like, if you want to do one roll round,

521
00:25:29,925 --> 00:25:31,845
Speaker 2: you can do it now. So like you had a

522
00:25:31,885 --> 00:25:34,205
Speaker 2: lot of yeah, just one thing happens, and then suddenly,

523
00:25:34,245 --> 00:25:36,005
Speaker 2: like you're on the phone and you're getting injections, and

524
00:25:36,005 --> 00:25:38,045
Speaker 2: then you're getting organized to get ports put into your

525
00:25:38,125 --> 00:25:40,485
Speaker 2: chest so that they can administer the chemo easily, and

526
00:25:40,485 --> 00:25:42,045
Speaker 2: then you're you know, within a week. It's all just

527
00:25:42,085 --> 00:25:45,765
Speaker 2: it's all moving suddenly. It is moving so fast, and

528
00:25:45,805 --> 00:25:47,565
Speaker 2: at the same time, you're sort of trying to tell

529
00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:49,365
Speaker 2: the right people. I didn't tell the whole world for

530
00:25:49,405 --> 00:25:51,205
Speaker 2: a long time, like in terms of like putting out

531
00:25:51,205 --> 00:25:53,045
Speaker 2: to my wider circles, but I chose who I wanted

532
00:25:53,085 --> 00:25:55,485
Speaker 2: to know, and I called them all one by one.

533
00:25:56,085 --> 00:25:58,765
Speaker 2: I think what I really learned is that the person

534
00:25:58,805 --> 00:26:01,885
Speaker 2: who's at the center of that circle doesn't know what

535
00:26:01,925 --> 00:26:04,645
Speaker 2: they need or want. So a question like how can

536
00:26:04,685 --> 00:26:07,005
Speaker 2: I help or let me know is so well intended.

537
00:26:07,645 --> 00:26:12,165
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer. So statements are amazing. I'm

538
00:26:12,205 --> 00:26:13,925
Speaker 2: going to come by your house at three pm and

539
00:26:13,925 --> 00:26:17,725
Speaker 2: put this on the doorstep. I could do. I've got

540
00:26:17,765 --> 00:26:20,005
Speaker 2: an afternoon free here. I can do X y Z

541
00:26:20,125 --> 00:26:22,525
Speaker 2: for you, like I can either A come and lie

542
00:26:22,525 --> 00:26:25,885
Speaker 2: in bed with you, B take you shopping, or see

543
00:26:25,965 --> 00:26:30,605
Speaker 2: do this choose also the words no need to reply, yeah,

544
00:26:30,765 --> 00:26:31,685
Speaker 2: we love those words.

545
00:26:31,845 --> 00:26:35,085
Speaker 1: Ye always put the no need to reply on.

546
00:26:35,245 --> 00:26:37,445
Speaker 2: I just think you can't go wrong. Really just do something,

547
00:26:38,085 --> 00:26:39,845
Speaker 2: and it's not about you. If you don't, if someone

548
00:26:39,885 --> 00:26:41,925
Speaker 2: doesn't right back, or they don't acknowledge whatever, it's not

549
00:26:41,965 --> 00:26:44,485
Speaker 2: about you. But they probably really love you and they're

550
00:26:44,485 --> 00:26:46,645
Speaker 2: really grateful. They just don't have the capacity at that point.

551
00:26:46,685 --> 00:26:48,565
Speaker 2: There is just so much going on in their world.

552
00:26:48,765 --> 00:26:49,565
Speaker 1: Of course I could.

553
00:26:49,405 --> 00:26:52,965
Speaker 2: Talk about that stuff forever, but yeah, it's a it's

554
00:26:53,005 --> 00:26:55,565
Speaker 2: a really tricky one. But I just have learned through

555
00:26:55,605 --> 00:27:00,645
Speaker 2: all of this about the goodness of people and how

556
00:27:00,645 --> 00:27:03,965
Speaker 2: there are so many ways to show up for someone.

557
00:27:04,045 --> 00:27:07,285
Speaker 2: And it isn't just still as I now or flowers like,

558
00:27:07,485 --> 00:27:10,965
Speaker 2: but they're great too. I love flowers. Everyone's like, don't

559
00:27:11,005 --> 00:27:15,565
Speaker 2: send flowers, Please send flowers. It's so nice. I loved it.

560
00:27:16,725 --> 00:27:19,005
Speaker 2: But there's so many ways that you can show up.

561
00:27:19,405 --> 00:27:20,605
Speaker 2: And can we talk about glimmers?

562
00:27:20,605 --> 00:27:23,405
Speaker 1: We can talk about glimmers because I didn't know how

563
00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:26,365
Speaker 1: to show up for you necessarily after I sent you

564
00:27:26,365 --> 00:27:28,725
Speaker 1: a box of biscuits.

565
00:27:28,725 --> 00:27:29,365
Speaker 2: That's a whole other.

566
00:27:29,285 --> 00:27:31,845
Speaker 1: Time, whole other stories, and then joke between us about

567
00:27:31,845 --> 00:27:34,205
Speaker 1: these particular type of biscuits. I send your box of biscuits.

568
00:27:34,325 --> 00:27:36,005
Speaker 2: Send me like, just to be clear, she sent me

569
00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,245
Speaker 2: like a hundreds. It wasn't just a box of biscuits.

570
00:27:38,285 --> 00:27:42,085
Speaker 2: It was like this like sort of big Australia post box.

571
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:43,805
Speaker 2: It was just feel like I couldn't get to the

572
00:27:43,805 --> 00:27:46,165
Speaker 2: bottom of the biscuits, which it just made me laugh,

573
00:27:46,245 --> 00:27:46,405
Speaker 2: you know.

574
00:27:46,845 --> 00:27:58,365
Speaker 1: Idea or kind of like okay, but anything candle. But yeah,

575
00:27:58,405 --> 00:28:02,485
Speaker 1: so people obviously, but beyond that, glimmers is what we

576
00:28:02,565 --> 00:28:05,445
Speaker 1: decided to do. Tell me about the glimmers.

577
00:28:05,525 --> 00:28:07,125
Speaker 2: I mean, it was the most beautiful thing I think

578
00:28:07,125 --> 00:28:09,325
Speaker 2: anyone's ever done for me. And when I love it

579
00:28:09,325 --> 00:28:12,205
Speaker 2: about it is that it's free. So we also, like

580
00:28:12,245 --> 00:28:14,365
Speaker 2: when we're showing up for someone who's in crisis, we

581
00:28:14,445 --> 00:28:16,885
Speaker 2: didn't have to spend a lot of money either. You

582
00:28:16,925 --> 00:28:19,725
Speaker 2: sent me a text just after i'd suld have found

583
00:28:19,725 --> 00:28:21,085
Speaker 2: out that big news that the road was going to

584
00:28:21,085 --> 00:28:24,725
Speaker 2: be really long and the cancer was pretty dang serious.

585
00:28:25,965 --> 00:28:28,405
Speaker 2: You said to me, I'm going to send you glimmers.

586
00:28:29,285 --> 00:28:32,205
Speaker 2: You can send them back if you'd like, but there's

587
00:28:32,245 --> 00:28:35,965
Speaker 2: no pressure to. And you started with and the glimmer

588
00:28:36,245 --> 00:28:38,005
Speaker 2: was just little things from your day that were making

589
00:28:38,045 --> 00:28:40,845
Speaker 2: you happy or showing you about the simplicity of life,

590
00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:44,045
Speaker 2: the beauty of life in the little, tiny moments. And

591
00:28:44,085 --> 00:28:46,245
Speaker 2: you sent me a picture of flowers that were on

592
00:28:46,285 --> 00:28:50,125
Speaker 2: the on the ground and they looked pretty Bryan neg flowers,

593
00:28:50,365 --> 00:28:52,125
Speaker 2: and I was like, I love this, let's do it. Not.

594
00:28:52,165 --> 00:28:53,965
Speaker 2: I don't think either of us fully knew what we

595
00:28:53,965 --> 00:28:56,925
Speaker 2: were signing up for in that moment, or you especially,

596
00:28:57,725 --> 00:29:01,325
Speaker 2: but you just kept sending glimmers. Every single day. You

597
00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:04,485
Speaker 2: would send me something from your life that was bringing

598
00:29:04,485 --> 00:29:07,445
Speaker 2: you joy. But it was never like a flex like

599
00:29:07,645 --> 00:29:11,965
Speaker 2: you don't listen, we've learnt about glimmers and what's okayted Ascent.

600
00:29:12,045 --> 00:29:13,565
Speaker 2: But you would never be like, oh, you know, here's

601
00:29:13,645 --> 00:29:17,645
Speaker 2: like the amazing holiday that I'm going. Here's the cup

602
00:29:17,685 --> 00:29:19,965
Speaker 2: of tea that I had. Exactly. Glimmers are simple. They

603
00:29:19,965 --> 00:29:22,805
Speaker 2: are like dogs and flowers and tea and a tree.

604
00:29:23,045 --> 00:29:25,405
Speaker 2: And some days I would send them back to you, yep,

605
00:29:25,965 --> 00:29:28,005
Speaker 2: you know, and it might be like but there was

606
00:29:28,005 --> 00:29:30,485
Speaker 2: no expectation, no expectation if I didn't, And often it

607
00:29:30,525 --> 00:29:32,365
Speaker 2: was just you coming at me with the glimmers and

608
00:29:32,405 --> 00:29:35,085
Speaker 2: that's okay. Sometimes you'd get a double double tap heart

609
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:37,925
Speaker 2: from me. Sometimes you got nothing. Some days it was

610
00:29:37,965 --> 00:29:40,885
Speaker 2: like glomma tanness were like back forward, back forward. Some

611
00:29:41,005 --> 00:29:42,925
Speaker 2: days it would be like my piece of veggie might

612
00:29:43,005 --> 00:29:47,245
Speaker 2: toast in bed, or my friend's dog coming to visit,

613
00:29:47,285 --> 00:29:49,205
Speaker 2: you know, really really simple stuff. But it was just

614
00:29:49,245 --> 00:29:55,365
Speaker 2: this way of us staying connected, very very connected, because

615
00:29:55,405 --> 00:29:57,165
Speaker 2: you and I like in our relationship. I think you know,

616
00:29:57,205 --> 00:29:58,845
Speaker 2: we'd had moments over the years or we wouldn't talk

617
00:29:58,885 --> 00:30:01,165
Speaker 2: for months, but then we'd come back together and that.

618
00:30:01,245 --> 00:30:03,245
Speaker 2: But then suddenly we're in contact every single day, which

619
00:30:03,285 --> 00:30:07,245
Speaker 2: could be a lot, but it wasn't. And you just

620
00:30:07,325 --> 00:30:10,205
Speaker 2: kept showing up and it just was the most beautiful

621
00:30:11,045 --> 00:30:13,685
Speaker 2: show of support. Because as cancer goes on and the

622
00:30:13,685 --> 00:30:16,845
Speaker 2: treatment gets harder, people do drop off, and it's not intentional.

623
00:30:17,405 --> 00:30:21,485
Speaker 2: Life gets busy and that real drama part of the

624
00:30:21,525 --> 00:30:25,165
Speaker 2: diagnosis is over and it's the hard stuff and other

625
00:30:25,205 --> 00:30:29,885
Speaker 2: stuff's come up and that's okay. But in you committing

626
00:30:29,885 --> 00:30:31,925
Speaker 2: to Glimmers, you had to kick shall we up?

627
00:30:32,965 --> 00:30:35,805
Speaker 1: Look? The reason that's the most beautiful, the reason why

628
00:30:35,805 --> 00:30:38,965
Speaker 1: Glimmers were right for us is as we say, we

629
00:30:38,965 --> 00:30:41,245
Speaker 1: weren't in the same place. I couldn't be there doing

630
00:30:41,325 --> 00:30:43,605
Speaker 1: But also to be really honest, there'll be people listening

631
00:30:43,645 --> 00:30:45,885
Speaker 1: to this too. I'm not very good at that kind

632
00:30:45,925 --> 00:30:47,765
Speaker 1: of thing, Like I mean, if you live around the corner,

633
00:30:47,765 --> 00:30:49,005
Speaker 1: of course I would be shutting up.

634
00:30:49,245 --> 00:30:50,725
Speaker 2: But like you're so far away.

635
00:30:50,565 --> 00:30:52,965
Speaker 1: Sending lasagnas and doing all that stuff is not really

636
00:30:53,005 --> 00:30:55,245
Speaker 1: my love language. I mean, I can make a good

637
00:30:55,245 --> 00:30:58,965
Speaker 1: look that one day, I would definitely do it. But

638
00:30:59,365 --> 00:31:02,485
Speaker 1: I was thinking of you every day, and when we

639
00:31:02,525 --> 00:31:04,205
Speaker 1: were in the rhythm of the Glimmers, which we ended,

640
00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:06,205
Speaker 1: we did for a full year, the thing I would

641
00:31:06,205 --> 00:31:08,925
Speaker 1: see would make me think of you, and I knew

642
00:31:09,085 --> 00:31:12,565
Speaker 1: that sometimes more than other times you were having a

643
00:31:12,685 --> 00:31:19,085
Speaker 1: shit time, sometimes you weren't sometimes, and I just wanted

644
00:31:19,725 --> 00:31:21,965
Speaker 1: you to know that I every day, at some point

645
00:31:22,005 --> 00:31:25,365
Speaker 1: at least I remembered Lucy, and I was sending you love.

646
00:31:25,365 --> 00:31:27,565
Speaker 1: And that was all, like, it's not about really what

647
00:31:27,685 --> 00:31:31,365
Speaker 1: the picture is. Although the other great thing about Glimmers

648
00:31:31,365 --> 00:31:33,125
Speaker 1: is it ends up being good for you too, because

649
00:31:33,165 --> 00:31:35,365
Speaker 1: you start to notice the Glimmers, which is good.

650
00:31:35,405 --> 00:31:36,925
Speaker 2: And I did. And there were days where I was

651
00:31:37,205 --> 00:31:41,605
Speaker 2: so sick, like where you can't lift your head up

652
00:31:42,125 --> 00:31:46,845
Speaker 2: from the pillow, kind of sick like just feeling so

653
00:31:47,285 --> 00:31:50,645
Speaker 2: insanely crappy. But I would think about it, like what

654
00:31:50,765 --> 00:31:52,445
Speaker 2: is that glimmer and like, you know, one of my

655
00:31:52,645 --> 00:31:55,485
Speaker 2: and it just made me say the goodness there was

656
00:31:55,525 --> 00:31:57,765
Speaker 2: goodness everywhere, but it you know, like I'd look across

657
00:31:57,765 --> 00:31:59,805
Speaker 2: to my bedside table and it'd be the most beautiful

658
00:31:59,925 --> 00:32:02,805
Speaker 2: rose that one of the neighbors had picked and put

659
00:32:02,805 --> 00:32:04,885
Speaker 2: on the doorstep, and then Mum would come and put it.

660
00:32:05,005 --> 00:32:06,885
Speaker 2: I moved back in with mum, Mother, this is all happening,

661
00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:11,205
Speaker 2: and I'm still there. Now, Well we'll get to that,

662
00:32:11,725 --> 00:32:13,125
Speaker 2: and you know, the roads would be next to my

663
00:32:13,165 --> 00:32:17,885
Speaker 2: bed or even the glimmer was like, oh my god.

664
00:32:17,925 --> 00:32:19,285
Speaker 2: I was like I was going through a treatment right

665
00:32:19,325 --> 00:32:22,205
Speaker 2: at the Olympics were on. My glim was that I

666
00:32:22,285 --> 00:32:24,685
Speaker 2: was awake at four am when the athletes will winning

667
00:32:24,685 --> 00:32:27,165
Speaker 2: the gold medals one. No one else was absolutely awake

668
00:32:27,165 --> 00:32:29,645
Speaker 2: because I couldn't sleep because of the drugs. So my

669
00:32:29,725 --> 00:32:35,365
Speaker 2: glimmer as I watched that live, I.

670
00:32:35,405 --> 00:32:37,645
Speaker 1: Am watching the Olympics in the drug you.

671
00:32:37,605 --> 00:32:40,085
Speaker 2: Know, on the on the TV that my cousins had

672
00:32:40,125 --> 00:32:41,925
Speaker 2: so beautifully said, We're going to put a TV on

673
00:32:41,925 --> 00:32:44,845
Speaker 2: your wall because you're going to be in bed a

674
00:32:44,885 --> 00:32:46,965
Speaker 2: lot and it was. It was the most amazing gift.

675
00:32:47,685 --> 00:32:49,685
Speaker 2: If anyone wants a real flex gift to give someone,

676
00:32:49,725 --> 00:32:52,485
Speaker 2: that's amazing. On the wall, Oh my.

677
00:32:52,365 --> 00:32:54,925
Speaker 1: God, this is the range. This is like a bridal registry.

678
00:32:54,965 --> 00:32:57,925
Speaker 1: The range is like glimmers are free, is a free

679
00:32:58,085 --> 00:33:02,045
Speaker 1: mount wall on the you know, I said.

680
00:33:01,885 --> 00:33:03,525
Speaker 2: To the other day, there's so many good free things,

681
00:33:03,525 --> 00:33:05,525
Speaker 2: like you've got someone in crisis gift. Then the logins

682
00:33:05,525 --> 00:33:09,885
Speaker 2: to your streaming services. That's a great, such a help.

683
00:33:10,325 --> 00:33:12,085
Speaker 1: I know that we could. I don't want to rush

684
00:33:12,285 --> 00:33:14,805
Speaker 1: through this, but at the same time, I want to

685
00:33:14,805 --> 00:33:17,445
Speaker 1: get to the point where so you, as you discussed,

686
00:33:17,445 --> 00:33:22,605
Speaker 1: you're going through this very, very grueling period and you've

687
00:33:22,605 --> 00:33:24,165
Speaker 1: just said some of the things that helped you a

688
00:33:24,205 --> 00:33:27,805
Speaker 1: little bit through that time. A typical if there was

689
00:33:27,845 --> 00:33:31,085
Speaker 1: such a thing day week about time, what was it

690
00:33:31,245 --> 00:33:34,565
Speaker 1: like what might be happening in your world when your

691
00:33:34,605 --> 00:33:37,245
Speaker 1: whole world is cancer at that time? Because it was

692
00:33:37,365 --> 00:33:39,205
Speaker 1: like it's.

693
00:33:39,085 --> 00:33:41,365
Speaker 2: Your whole world. Yes, yeah, I mean everything grinds to

694
00:33:41,405 --> 00:33:43,085
Speaker 2: a whole really really really really quickly.

695
00:33:43,285 --> 00:33:44,605
Speaker 1: You had to obviously stop working.

696
00:33:44,685 --> 00:33:46,645
Speaker 2: Oh I stopped working. I gave my client, you know,

697
00:33:46,765 --> 00:33:48,485
Speaker 2: got people to step in and take on the work

698
00:33:48,565 --> 00:33:49,285
Speaker 2: that I was doing.

699
00:33:50,925 --> 00:33:53,525
Speaker 1: The phone to me sometimes going like I think I

700
00:33:53,565 --> 00:33:57,365
Speaker 1: could maybe do this job in between this and this

701
00:33:57,405 --> 00:33:59,685
Speaker 1: and this, and then they're like stop it.

702
00:33:59,805 --> 00:34:02,405
Speaker 2: Anyhow, Yeah, everything came to a whole, moved home to

703
00:34:02,525 --> 00:34:07,325
Speaker 2: mum's house, simplified life massively. And it's a weird feeling

704
00:34:07,325 --> 00:34:09,085
Speaker 2: like that just before came. I starts like, you've had

705
00:34:09,125 --> 00:34:13,245
Speaker 2: so surgery. I didn't find too bad in terms of recovery.

706
00:34:13,325 --> 00:34:15,445
Speaker 2: It's big, and it's it's messy, and it's yucky and

707
00:34:15,485 --> 00:34:17,925
Speaker 2: it's a bit sore, but it wasn't it wasn't terrible.

708
00:34:18,605 --> 00:34:20,325
Speaker 2: But then when you know that chemo's coming, you're like

709
00:34:20,365 --> 00:34:22,285
Speaker 2: getting ready to be sick, which is a really really

710
00:34:22,525 --> 00:34:25,005
Speaker 2: interesting feeling. And you know, even I remember on that

711
00:34:25,085 --> 00:34:27,645
Speaker 2: drive two chemo on that first day, it's like it's

712
00:34:27,685 --> 00:34:31,005
Speaker 2: a yeah, getting yourself ready for that.

713
00:34:31,125 --> 00:34:33,205
Speaker 1: But is there any part of you? This might sound

714
00:34:33,245 --> 00:34:36,885
Speaker 1: like a really silly question, but this is an experience

715
00:34:37,325 --> 00:34:42,405
Speaker 1: that thankfully most of us will not have. But you've

716
00:34:42,445 --> 00:34:46,525
Speaker 1: all seen it on the telly, right, We've all seen

717
00:34:47,365 --> 00:34:51,085
Speaker 1: what chemo therapy looks like on the telly. Is there

718
00:34:51,125 --> 00:34:52,765
Speaker 1: any part of and we know it makes you sick.

719
00:34:52,845 --> 00:34:54,605
Speaker 1: That's what that's mostly what we know. The things I

720
00:34:54,645 --> 00:34:57,165
Speaker 1: would have known. It makes you lose your hair, and

721
00:34:57,205 --> 00:34:59,405
Speaker 1: it makes you sick. Is there any part of you

722
00:34:59,445 --> 00:35:01,365
Speaker 1: that's like, it's not going to make me sick.

723
00:35:03,445 --> 00:35:07,205
Speaker 2: I will be the one who doesn't. And you know what,

724
00:35:07,245 --> 00:35:09,165
Speaker 2: I sort of. They tell you so many things, but

725
00:35:09,485 --> 00:35:13,525
Speaker 2: you can't attach to a lot of it. And one

726
00:35:13,525 --> 00:35:14,805
Speaker 2: of the things they tell you is that we give

727
00:35:14,845 --> 00:35:17,845
Speaker 2: you steroids. At the same time that you're getting your chemo,

728
00:35:18,085 --> 00:35:21,005
Speaker 2: we're giving you steroids. And the technology has come so

729
00:35:21,125 --> 00:35:24,285
Speaker 2: far these days that they can offset a lot of

730
00:35:24,285 --> 00:35:28,445
Speaker 2: the side effects with other drugs. But I remember I

731
00:35:28,485 --> 00:35:31,125
Speaker 2: came home from the first chemo and I woke up

732
00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:33,645
Speaker 2: the next day and I'm like, I'm fine, I'm good.

733
00:35:34,165 --> 00:35:37,925
Speaker 2: This does not affect me. I am I am okay.

734
00:35:38,405 --> 00:35:41,725
Speaker 2: And I went for a walk and about twenty minutes,

735
00:35:41,765 --> 00:35:43,405
Speaker 2: you know, Muther called Mum when I was like, my

736
00:35:43,525 --> 00:35:46,965
Speaker 2: chest hurts, and I ended up at home on the

737
00:35:46,965 --> 00:35:50,205
Speaker 2: phone to the doctors at the GP getting acgs. And

738
00:35:50,245 --> 00:35:52,645
Speaker 2: the next day I just came crashing down. And so

739
00:35:52,725 --> 00:35:54,165
Speaker 2: what I learned is that you've got a couple of

740
00:35:54,285 --> 00:35:56,965
Speaker 2: days of feeling okay, and then it hits you. So

741
00:35:57,085 --> 00:35:59,565
Speaker 2: back to your question about what though that time looked like.

742
00:36:00,325 --> 00:36:02,725
Speaker 2: I started with four rounds of very very intense chemo

743
00:36:02,845 --> 00:36:05,925
Speaker 2: they call it the Red Devil. That was every two weeks,

744
00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:07,765
Speaker 2: and so you sort of would go in, have your

745
00:36:07,765 --> 00:36:12,565
Speaker 2: treatment for a couple of days of feeling okay, and

746
00:36:12,605 --> 00:36:14,445
Speaker 2: then it would sort of hit. So I've had treatment

747
00:36:14,485 --> 00:36:17,285
Speaker 2: on the Thursday. By the Sunday, I was really starting

748
00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:19,405
Speaker 2: to feel it. By the Monday, I couldn't get out

749
00:36:19,445 --> 00:36:21,965
Speaker 2: of bed. And that was a few days of that,

750
00:36:22,645 --> 00:36:24,245
Speaker 2: and then you to de fine. After about a week,

751
00:36:24,245 --> 00:36:26,125
Speaker 2: you're sort of starting to feel yourself again. You have

752
00:36:26,165 --> 00:36:28,365
Speaker 2: a couple of days of grace where you like, let's

753
00:36:28,445 --> 00:36:32,165
Speaker 2: fucking live for a couple of days, and then you

754
00:36:32,165 --> 00:36:33,925
Speaker 2: get yourself ready to go back in and do it again.

755
00:36:34,245 --> 00:36:36,045
Speaker 2: And so I did four doses of the very very

756
00:36:36,085 --> 00:36:41,045
Speaker 2: intense chemo and then twelve doses which became weekly. Still

757
00:36:41,085 --> 00:36:45,445
Speaker 2: an incredibly intense chemo, but not quite as as like that.

758
00:36:45,445 --> 00:36:51,965
Speaker 2: That part I found excruciating. It just felt like I

759
00:36:51,965 --> 00:36:54,365
Speaker 2: think I remember at dose five or six, I kept

760
00:36:54,365 --> 00:36:56,845
Speaker 2: saying to people, I feel like I'm running a marathon

761
00:36:57,325 --> 00:37:00,765
Speaker 2: where the adrenaline of the start has worn off. I'm

762
00:37:00,805 --> 00:37:03,125
Speaker 2: like at a kilometer of fourteen or something, you know,

763
00:37:03,245 --> 00:37:05,125
Speaker 2: like I cannot see the finish line for the life

764
00:37:05,165 --> 00:37:08,885
Speaker 2: of me, and I'm just in it. And that part

765
00:37:08,925 --> 00:37:13,765
Speaker 2: was really hard. Yeah, And it was just monotonous and boring.

766
00:37:15,645 --> 00:37:19,285
Speaker 2: And you know, I remember I probably said to you, like,

767
00:37:19,445 --> 00:37:21,325
Speaker 2: don't most people like write books or something while they

768
00:37:21,325 --> 00:37:24,125
Speaker 2: have cancer? Like I'm not doing enough? Was watching TV.

769
00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:25,845
Speaker 1: This is very classic Lucy.

770
00:37:26,045 --> 00:37:28,365
Speaker 2: Yeah, so long hard time.

771
00:37:28,565 --> 00:37:30,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know how I said. What we all know

772
00:37:30,765 --> 00:37:32,365
Speaker 1: about chemo is it makes you sick and you lose

773
00:37:32,405 --> 00:37:34,685
Speaker 1: your hair. You've got hair? What did you do?

774
00:37:34,805 --> 00:37:35,485
Speaker 2: I do have hair.

775
00:37:37,005 --> 00:37:40,445
Speaker 1: I remember. I remember, like you being having a lot

776
00:37:40,485 --> 00:37:42,565
Speaker 1: of thoughts about that, feelings about that.

777
00:37:42,845 --> 00:37:45,205
Speaker 2: I still do. Yeah, you know, I was convinced I

778
00:37:45,245 --> 00:37:47,525
Speaker 2: was going to our good mate Sally Hapworth took me

779
00:37:47,525 --> 00:37:50,005
Speaker 2: a wig shopping. She did, yeah, preemptive wik shopping, and

780
00:37:50,005 --> 00:37:52,045
Speaker 2: I still have the week that we bought in my carpet.

781
00:37:54,485 --> 00:37:58,325
Speaker 2: I there's a technology they offer some rest cancer patients

782
00:37:58,365 --> 00:38:02,005
Speaker 2: called a cold cap, which is essentially what it does

783
00:38:02,125 --> 00:38:03,805
Speaker 2: is it's a it's a cap or like almost like

784
00:38:03,805 --> 00:38:06,285
Speaker 2: a helmet that you wear on your head. During chemo,

785
00:38:06,485 --> 00:38:09,805
Speaker 2: and it pumps freezing cold liquid across your head.

786
00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:12,245
Speaker 1: That sounds awful. It was awful, but it's probably the

787
00:38:12,325 --> 00:38:13,645
Speaker 1: least a few problems in that minute.

788
00:38:14,765 --> 00:38:17,405
Speaker 2: It's probably one of the harder parts. I really love it, yeah,

789
00:38:17,485 --> 00:38:21,085
Speaker 2: and it really hurts. But the way it works is

790
00:38:21,085 --> 00:38:24,525
Speaker 2: that it essentially freezes the hair follicles so that the

791
00:38:24,605 --> 00:38:28,325
Speaker 2: chemo doesn't hit them because the chemo is attacking cells

792
00:38:28,325 --> 00:38:33,085
Speaker 2: that are multiplying which hair hairs. True, so I decided

793
00:38:33,085 --> 00:38:35,125
Speaker 2: to give it a go. It never is one hundred

794
00:38:35,125 --> 00:38:37,805
Speaker 2: percent effective. They say fifty sixty percent if you're lucky.

795
00:38:38,445 --> 00:38:41,325
Speaker 2: And so I still lost a lot of hair, like

796
00:38:41,365 --> 00:38:43,285
Speaker 2: the cap of my head, and I've got this like

797
00:38:43,405 --> 00:38:45,445
Speaker 2: weird re growth going on at the moment. I spent

798
00:38:45,485 --> 00:38:48,325
Speaker 2: a lot of time pushing it down and the sides,

799
00:38:49,045 --> 00:38:50,645
Speaker 2: but I did keep my hair a lot of it,

800
00:38:51,485 --> 00:38:54,605
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it was worth it, to

801
00:38:54,605 --> 00:38:56,445
Speaker 2: be honest, Like you have to wear it for an

802
00:38:56,445 --> 00:38:58,805
Speaker 2: hour before camo, during camo, on an hour after. So

803
00:38:58,925 --> 00:39:00,125
Speaker 2: when I was in the chair for five or six

804
00:39:00,165 --> 00:39:03,885
Speaker 2: hours at a time with this cap, it's like having

805
00:39:03,885 --> 00:39:05,565
Speaker 2: a really bad brain free.

806
00:39:06,125 --> 00:39:09,125
Speaker 1: But you must have felt strongly enough about not wanting

807
00:39:09,125 --> 00:39:11,445
Speaker 1: to your head to put yourself through that was that

808
00:39:11,485 --> 00:39:12,525
Speaker 1: an identity thing?

809
00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:14,165
Speaker 2: I think at the start, you're trying to hold on

810
00:39:15,045 --> 00:39:19,125
Speaker 2: to everything who you were. And I remember very very

811
00:39:19,125 --> 00:39:21,005
Speaker 2: clearly at the start, like I've got journal entries where

812
00:39:21,005 --> 00:39:24,285
Speaker 2: I was so scared of losing myself in all this

813
00:39:24,605 --> 00:39:27,525
Speaker 2: and who I would become afterwards. So I think, yeah,

814
00:39:27,605 --> 00:39:29,525
Speaker 2: they're giving you the option to lose your hair, which is,

815
00:39:29,565 --> 00:39:31,245
Speaker 2: you know, like how you look and how you present.

816
00:39:32,205 --> 00:39:33,645
Speaker 2: I thought I may as well give it a go.

817
00:39:34,845 --> 00:39:37,005
Speaker 2: About three or four sessions in I almost let it

818
00:39:37,045 --> 00:39:39,845
Speaker 2: go because it was so painful because my hair was

819
00:39:39,885 --> 00:39:42,765
Speaker 2: falling out anyway, and I kind of was like, I've

820
00:39:42,805 --> 00:39:45,365
Speaker 2: come this far in hindsight, if I had my time

821
00:39:45,365 --> 00:39:47,045
Speaker 2: over again, would I do it? I mean, it's hard

822
00:39:47,045 --> 00:39:52,245
Speaker 2: to say, but I mean it did. During treatment, to

823
00:39:52,285 --> 00:39:54,645
Speaker 2: be able to go out in public and not feel

824
00:39:54,685 --> 00:39:57,885
Speaker 2: like you were the cancer patient was quite a beautiful thing.

825
00:39:58,125 --> 00:40:00,365
Speaker 2: You know, I looked, I didn't look well. Let me be,

826
00:40:01,685 --> 00:40:04,805
Speaker 2: I did not look well, but it sort of allowed

827
00:40:04,805 --> 00:40:08,005
Speaker 2: me to sort of pretend like I was a regular

828
00:40:08,485 --> 00:40:11,645
Speaker 2: person in the world. But yeah, just if anyone's wondering,

829
00:40:11,765 --> 00:40:15,645
Speaker 2: that's that's why I have here, and it's it's another

830
00:40:15,645 --> 00:40:17,605
Speaker 2: thing that they don't always mention it, the doctors. I've

831
00:40:17,645 --> 00:40:19,685
Speaker 2: got other friends who do wasn't off at his adoptions,

832
00:40:19,685 --> 00:40:20,485
Speaker 2: so it's something to ask.

833
00:40:20,365 --> 00:40:26,205
Speaker 1: About coming up. Lucy tells us why it isn't over

834
00:40:26,645 --> 00:40:27,325
Speaker 1: when it's over.

835
00:40:31,685 --> 00:40:31,845
Speaker 2: Now.

836
00:40:31,885 --> 00:40:33,445
Speaker 1: As I said, I don't want to rush to no.

837
00:40:33,485 --> 00:40:35,765
Speaker 1: I know I get the end in inverted comments because

838
00:40:35,765 --> 00:40:37,285
Speaker 1: it's not the end, because that's what I want to

839
00:40:37,325 --> 00:40:37,805
Speaker 1: talk about.

840
00:40:37,885 --> 00:40:38,045
Speaker 2: Right.

841
00:40:38,405 --> 00:40:41,845
Speaker 1: You've told me in many ways that the end of treatment.

842
00:40:43,205 --> 00:40:46,045
Speaker 1: The perception is right. This is my perception again, back

843
00:40:46,085 --> 00:40:48,045
Speaker 1: to my perception of the things I don't know about.

844
00:40:48,125 --> 00:40:51,005
Speaker 2: But my perception too going into this is despite us

845
00:40:51,085 --> 00:40:53,285
Speaker 2: being i would say, reasonably smart.

846
00:40:53,005 --> 00:40:58,725
Speaker 1: One yeah, right, reasonably empathetic, silly, sometimes you get you

847
00:40:58,805 --> 00:41:01,925
Speaker 1: get to the end of treatment and hopefully you get

848
00:41:02,045 --> 00:41:04,845
Speaker 1: good news or the hope the promise of some good news,

849
00:41:05,205 --> 00:41:11,445
Speaker 1: and everything's fine. Everything, everything's fine. Back to now, I

850
00:41:11,485 --> 00:41:14,205
Speaker 1: want you to talk to me about this part because

851
00:41:14,205 --> 00:41:16,765
Speaker 1: I know I'm not as you just described. It's not

852
00:41:16,805 --> 00:41:18,565
Speaker 1: like this bit's worse than this bit or whatever. You've

853
00:41:18,565 --> 00:41:21,605
Speaker 1: been through a no unbelievable thing. But what we've been

854
00:41:21,605 --> 00:41:23,805
Speaker 1: talking about a lot lately. And what your substack that

855
00:41:23,845 --> 00:41:27,605
Speaker 1: you've started a year of healing is about is kind

856
00:41:27,645 --> 00:41:31,085
Speaker 1: of what happens when it's over in inverted commers, because A,

857
00:41:31,205 --> 00:41:37,045
Speaker 1: it's not really over and be everything has moved around. Yes,

858
00:41:37,165 --> 00:41:39,205
Speaker 1: So talk to me a bit about that. Talk to

859
00:41:39,205 --> 00:41:40,605
Speaker 1: me a bit about the snow globe.

860
00:41:40,925 --> 00:41:45,005
Speaker 2: Oh, the snow globe. The snow globe. Look, there's so

861
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:48,205
Speaker 2: many parts to this. I think the thing you learn

862
00:41:48,325 --> 00:41:52,605
Speaker 2: when you're in treatment is that it's ever changing. I

863
00:41:52,605 --> 00:41:56,365
Speaker 2: think you have a treatment plan, but then with every surgery,

864
00:41:56,405 --> 00:41:59,405
Speaker 2: with every scam, with everything, it changes, you know. So

865
00:42:00,125 --> 00:42:02,645
Speaker 2: for about a year, I mean the thick of it,

866
00:42:02,765 --> 00:42:05,205
Speaker 2: you know, and just like I end up having three surgeries,

867
00:42:05,285 --> 00:42:07,805
Speaker 2: six months of chemo, five months of chemo radiation and that.

868
00:42:07,885 --> 00:42:09,485
Speaker 2: So I come to the end of the radiation and

869
00:42:11,325 --> 00:42:15,045
Speaker 2: you're kind of like you're like headed for that line.

870
00:42:15,085 --> 00:42:17,325
Speaker 2: Like I'm just like everything in me is going towards

871
00:42:17,325 --> 00:42:19,125
Speaker 2: that line and being done with radiation or what they

872
00:42:19,125 --> 00:42:24,085
Speaker 2: call the active treatment, and I hit it expecting to

873
00:42:24,125 --> 00:42:29,205
Speaker 2: fully be like amazing, cool, I'm done, you know, we

874
00:42:29,205 --> 00:42:31,245
Speaker 2: can move on with life. And everyone around you is like,

875
00:42:31,325 --> 00:42:33,925
Speaker 2: you did it, You've you know, you've climbed the mountain

876
00:42:34,045 --> 00:42:37,645
Speaker 2: or you've beaten the thing, and I just can't stop

877
00:42:37,645 --> 00:42:42,405
Speaker 2: crying because you go from this life that you've thrust

878
00:42:42,445 --> 00:42:47,325
Speaker 2: into so incredibly quickly, which is then completely taken up

879
00:42:47,605 --> 00:42:50,485
Speaker 2: with hospital visits and doctors and scans and whatever. It

880
00:42:50,565 --> 00:42:52,125
Speaker 2: is like you know, for a while, and still my

881
00:42:52,165 --> 00:42:54,965
Speaker 2: Google Maps thinks that the hospital is work because we

882
00:42:55,045 --> 00:42:57,765
Speaker 2: go there so often, like that is your life. And

883
00:42:57,805 --> 00:43:02,565
Speaker 2: then suddenly you're done, and everyone's like, cool, well done,

884
00:43:03,245 --> 00:43:04,725
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know who I am anymore.

885
00:43:05,685 --> 00:43:10,165
Speaker 2: I don't know how to be. I don't know. I

886
00:43:10,165 --> 00:43:14,645
Speaker 2: don't know where I belong. I don't know, like do

887
00:43:14,685 --> 00:43:18,045
Speaker 2: I work. My body doesn't feel like it used to.

888
00:43:19,285 --> 00:43:24,765
Speaker 2: I'm still overcoming all the you know, the physicality of

889
00:43:24,765 --> 00:43:26,605
Speaker 2: it all, like all the surgeries, all the chema, all

890
00:43:26,605 --> 00:43:27,605
Speaker 2: the radiation.

891
00:43:27,325 --> 00:43:30,525
Speaker 1: And you still also on a lot of medication, medication.

892
00:43:30,245 --> 00:43:32,805
Speaker 2: And so I don't know. My body doesn't feel like mine.

893
00:43:32,845 --> 00:43:34,805
Speaker 2: It's not really capful of much. And my head is

894
00:43:35,125 --> 00:43:40,205
Speaker 2: just starting to catch up with what just happened. But

895
00:43:40,245 --> 00:43:42,005
Speaker 2: will let's go on with life? And I just sort

896
00:43:42,005 --> 00:43:45,125
Speaker 2: of did that. I was like, okay, let's go started

897
00:43:45,125 --> 00:43:50,685
Speaker 2: taking meetings with clients, moved home to my house with

898
00:43:50,845 --> 00:43:55,005
Speaker 2: my gym that had become my like sanctuary, like somewhere

899
00:43:55,005 --> 00:43:59,405
Speaker 2: to go and to move through everything gently. Just was

900
00:43:59,445 --> 00:44:02,645
Speaker 2: all in at the same time. I just started on

901
00:44:02,645 --> 00:44:06,085
Speaker 2: this very very quite growling, ongoing treatment ragime like so

902
00:44:06,165 --> 00:44:08,045
Speaker 2: for certain types of breast cancer, and you do learn

903
00:44:08,085 --> 00:44:10,485
Speaker 2: a lot. There's so many different types of breast cancer

904
00:44:10,765 --> 00:44:14,685
Speaker 2: that affect treatment plans and you know, survivorship and everything

905
00:44:14,725 --> 00:44:18,525
Speaker 2: like that. To start on this big treatment regime of

906
00:44:18,565 --> 00:44:20,565
Speaker 2: drugs that will go on for many, many, many years,

907
00:44:21,085 --> 00:44:23,645
Speaker 2: and I'm off, like let's go, and I just came

908
00:44:23,685 --> 00:44:27,325
Speaker 2: crushing down completely. I ended up in hospital with a

909
00:44:27,365 --> 00:44:31,845
Speaker 2: fever sicker than I've ever felt, but supposed to be better,

910
00:44:32,885 --> 00:44:35,685
Speaker 2: and I couldn't quite marry up at all, like what

911
00:44:35,845 --> 00:44:37,885
Speaker 2: was going on here? But my head was just spinning

912
00:44:38,125 --> 00:44:39,565
Speaker 2: and I, yeah.

913
00:44:39,125 --> 00:44:42,005
Speaker 1: Do you get offered as a patient, because this must

914
00:44:42,005 --> 00:44:44,805
Speaker 1: be what happens to so many people? Do you get

915
00:44:44,885 --> 00:44:48,285
Speaker 1: offered counseling to deal with this? And what kind of

916
00:44:48,325 --> 00:44:49,525
Speaker 1: things do they say to you?

917
00:44:49,805 --> 00:44:54,405
Speaker 2: I say, this is incredibly normal, and I'm so lucky,

918
00:44:54,445 --> 00:44:58,045
Speaker 2: Like I was just the public hospital system, like I

919
00:44:58,085 --> 00:44:59,805
Speaker 2: went through public. There was a question of whether I'd

920
00:44:59,805 --> 00:45:03,925
Speaker 2: go private. I didn't have enough cover for that, but

921
00:45:03,965 --> 00:45:06,805
Speaker 2: I was considering paying for it. And then actually a

922
00:45:06,885 --> 00:45:09,085
Speaker 2: conversation with me as friend who's a research and she

923
00:45:09,205 --> 00:45:09,645
Speaker 2: was like.

924
00:45:09,805 --> 00:45:11,285
Speaker 1: Oh my god. At the sidelines of the.

925
00:45:11,605 --> 00:45:15,325
Speaker 2: Side Sydney show, I was in this Oh my god,

926
00:45:15,365 --> 00:45:19,565
Speaker 2: my head was spinning about do I go private and

927
00:45:19,685 --> 00:45:23,445
Speaker 2: have a surgery like five days before the option of

928
00:45:23,485 --> 00:45:26,605
Speaker 2: the public surgery. It was going to cost me a

929
00:45:26,645 --> 00:45:29,245
Speaker 2: shit ton of money, but I was like, I need

930
00:45:29,245 --> 00:45:31,365
Speaker 2: to get it done now, right, you know, and all

931
00:45:31,405 --> 00:45:36,125
Speaker 2: the public option and mea said cave achat to my

932
00:45:36,205 --> 00:45:38,325
Speaker 2: bait and she was like, you are fine to wait

933
00:45:38,565 --> 00:45:40,765
Speaker 2: for the public system. Best thing I could have ever done.

934
00:45:40,885 --> 00:45:44,285
Speaker 2: I have had the most phenomenal care and treatment across

935
00:45:44,285 --> 00:45:47,925
Speaker 2: all that. So yes, they offer counseling, Yes they offer everything.

936
00:45:48,045 --> 00:45:51,005
Speaker 2: They are the most. I cannot could not fault them.

937
00:45:51,005 --> 00:45:54,645
Speaker 2: I call them my happy hospital. It has been absolutely incredible.

938
00:45:55,645 --> 00:45:59,045
Speaker 2: But what they tell you is that everything you are

939
00:45:59,085 --> 00:46:03,405
Speaker 2: experiencing is incredibly normal for cancer patient. But I've come

940
00:46:03,445 --> 00:46:07,845
Speaker 2: to realize that I think we have this perception in

941
00:46:07,885 --> 00:46:09,485
Speaker 2: the world, and I was guilty of it. I think

942
00:46:09,525 --> 00:46:12,365
Speaker 2: too that there's two paths out of cancer, and one

943
00:46:12,445 --> 00:46:15,725
Speaker 2: is fine and one is dead, and we make no

944
00:46:15,965 --> 00:46:18,805
Speaker 2: room for the stuff in the middle, which I've also

945
00:46:18,845 --> 00:46:21,125
Speaker 2: come to realize that so many people are suffering with,

946
00:46:21,565 --> 00:46:24,285
Speaker 2: but they mostly have to pretend to be fine because

947
00:46:24,325 --> 00:46:28,805
Speaker 2: that's that's a narrative. We want that, that's easier, that's nice.

948
00:46:28,805 --> 00:46:30,685
Speaker 2: How we want things tied up neatly in a bow.

949
00:46:31,285 --> 00:46:33,925
Speaker 2: We want happy endings. And it is a happy ending.

950
00:46:34,805 --> 00:46:36,965
Speaker 2: It just kind of hurts a bit on the inside.

951
00:46:37,325 --> 00:46:40,165
Speaker 1: It's not over that thing is really the ending.

952
00:46:40,445 --> 00:46:42,205
Speaker 2: It's not the ending at all. And I didn't answer

953
00:46:42,205 --> 00:46:44,605
Speaker 2: a question there about snowglows, but the snowglobe theory is

954
00:46:44,645 --> 00:46:47,365
Speaker 2: one that my psychologist shared with me when I was

955
00:46:47,365 --> 00:46:50,445
Speaker 2: in one of these these phases of going I just

956
00:46:50,445 --> 00:46:52,565
Speaker 2: don't know where I fit in anymore. And I'm still

957
00:46:52,605 --> 00:46:55,045
Speaker 2: in that phase, to be honest, Like I'm six months

958
00:46:55,085 --> 00:46:58,045
Speaker 2: out of active treatment, but only eighteen months since diagnosis.

959
00:46:58,085 --> 00:47:02,325
Speaker 2: Not even every day. It's still occupies so much of

960
00:47:02,325 --> 00:47:04,885
Speaker 2: my thoughts and my beings and just my life. I'm

961
00:47:04,885 --> 00:47:08,005
Speaker 2: still in appointments all the time, even though I'm clear out.

962
00:47:08,045 --> 00:47:10,525
Speaker 2: The snow globe theory, she said, you know. I was

963
00:47:10,565 --> 00:47:13,165
Speaker 2: talking to her and she picked up a snowglobe and

964
00:47:13,205 --> 00:47:15,045
Speaker 2: she held it to the camera. We do our sessions

965
00:47:15,045 --> 00:47:17,525
Speaker 2: on zoom, and she said, I want you and imagine

966
00:47:17,525 --> 00:47:19,325
Speaker 2: that your life is this snow globe and you're in

967
00:47:19,365 --> 00:47:22,005
Speaker 2: the middle of it, and you know, you're going about

968
00:47:22,045 --> 00:47:24,085
Speaker 2: your day and then boom, and she shook the snow

969
00:47:24,085 --> 00:47:29,885
Speaker 2: globe quite vigorously, and she said, all those little flakes

970
00:47:30,245 --> 00:47:32,765
Speaker 2: that are that are flying around now, they are your

971
00:47:32,845 --> 00:47:36,325
Speaker 2: values and they're your priorities, and they might be the

972
00:47:36,365 --> 00:47:38,765
Speaker 2: same as what they were before, but she said, they're

973
00:47:38,765 --> 00:47:41,525
Speaker 2: all falling into different places. So the things that you

974
00:47:41,565 --> 00:47:44,765
Speaker 2: once cared about, maybe you don't care as much anymore.

975
00:47:44,925 --> 00:47:47,165
Speaker 2: The things you didn't think you cared about, they're kind

976
00:47:47,165 --> 00:47:49,285
Speaker 2: of more important now. And you're kind of just stepping

977
00:47:49,285 --> 00:47:51,125
Speaker 2: your way through the snow and trying to figure out

978
00:47:51,805 --> 00:47:55,205
Speaker 2: where you belong in it all. And when she said that,

979
00:47:55,205 --> 00:47:56,845
Speaker 2: that was the most helpful thing I've ever heard, because

980
00:47:56,845 --> 00:47:58,565
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, it makes sense now the snow

981
00:47:58,645 --> 00:47:59,285
Speaker 2: is still falling.

982
00:48:00,165 --> 00:48:04,325
Speaker 1: Stop putting the pressure on yourself answers, and not to

983
00:48:04,365 --> 00:48:07,285
Speaker 1: be back to normal is normal?

984
00:48:07,685 --> 00:48:11,165
Speaker 2: There is no normal. We call this the re entry

985
00:48:11,205 --> 00:48:13,645
Speaker 2: wobbles and they're going to go on for a while.

986
00:48:13,885 --> 00:48:16,885
Speaker 2: And she says, you know, typically two years is probably

987
00:48:17,005 --> 00:48:20,085
Speaker 2: from end of treatment is what it will take a

988
00:48:20,085 --> 00:48:22,565
Speaker 2: cancer patient to figure out what their new normal.

989
00:48:22,325 --> 00:48:29,485
Speaker 1: Is, you know, in that snow globe analogy, because the

990
00:48:29,525 --> 00:48:34,045
Speaker 1: other thing, which all not preconceptions is an experience like yours.

991
00:48:35,485 --> 00:48:38,045
Speaker 1: It is absolutely life changing, but that it changes your

992
00:48:38,085 --> 00:48:41,125
Speaker 1: perception of everything and what you want and clarity. Now

993
00:48:41,205 --> 00:48:44,325
Speaker 1: you said you got that clarity in the room when

994
00:48:44,325 --> 00:48:48,485
Speaker 1: they diagnosed you. Sitting here now like, do you feel

995
00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:51,245
Speaker 1: like this is a different Lucy. I want different things

996
00:48:51,245 --> 00:48:52,245
Speaker 1: and I know what I want.

997
00:48:52,525 --> 00:48:55,485
Speaker 2: Do you feel that? Yeah? I mean I'm not sure

998
00:48:55,525 --> 00:49:01,045
Speaker 2: of myself, you know, classic self doubta imposter syndrome through

999
00:49:01,085 --> 00:49:01,525
Speaker 2: all of it.

1000
00:49:02,125 --> 00:49:03,205
Speaker 1: Are you proud of yourself?

1001
00:49:03,285 --> 00:49:07,045
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of myself. Yeah, I'm really really proud.

1002
00:49:07,085 --> 00:49:10,125
Speaker 2: And I think when I look back at cancer treatment,

1003
00:49:11,245 --> 00:49:14,525
Speaker 2: it's the one thing in my life that I didn't

1004
00:49:14,565 --> 00:49:17,205
Speaker 2: have a roadmap for how to do it. I wasn't

1005
00:49:17,245 --> 00:49:19,125
Speaker 2: able to look at other people and so of say,

1006
00:49:19,965 --> 00:49:21,925
Speaker 2: not that I've fit my life or my career following

1007
00:49:21,965 --> 00:49:22,445
Speaker 2: other people.

1008
00:49:23,325 --> 00:49:26,165
Speaker 1: Kind of like I'm very pit and ambitious.

1009
00:49:27,125 --> 00:49:28,765
Speaker 2: But it was sort of the first time in my

1010
00:49:28,805 --> 00:49:30,845
Speaker 2: life that I'd been really able to go this is

1011
00:49:31,565 --> 00:49:35,245
Speaker 2: only me going through this with a huge amount of support,

1012
00:49:35,285 --> 00:49:38,725
Speaker 2: like I am just the most beautiful family and network

1013
00:49:38,765 --> 00:49:41,165
Speaker 2: of people who were behind me, but it's I'm the

1014
00:49:41,205 --> 00:49:43,885
Speaker 2: only one in there, and how do I want to

1015
00:49:43,925 --> 00:49:46,685
Speaker 2: do this? You know? And I was able to do that.

1016
00:49:46,805 --> 00:49:48,205
Speaker 2: And back to that point where I said that I

1017
00:49:48,245 --> 00:49:52,165
Speaker 2: wanted to find the fun and the love in it.

1018
00:49:52,205 --> 00:49:53,765
Speaker 2: And I know people might roll their eyes at that

1019
00:49:53,965 --> 00:49:57,765
Speaker 2: and be like, cancer fucking sucks, because it does. Somehow

1020
00:49:57,805 --> 00:50:01,005
Speaker 2: through it, we were able to find that fun and

1021
00:50:01,045 --> 00:50:03,805
Speaker 2: that love. Not all the time, but you know, that

1022
00:50:03,965 --> 00:50:05,685
Speaker 2: night after I found out that I had chemo, I

1023
00:50:05,685 --> 00:50:07,725
Speaker 2: called my family. I said, please come over. I'm making

1024
00:50:07,765 --> 00:50:11,565
Speaker 2: pasta I don't know, And they came over and we

1025
00:50:11,605 --> 00:50:13,485
Speaker 2: had dinner and we put the music on really loud,

1026
00:50:13,485 --> 00:50:16,205
Speaker 2: and we just danced. That's one of my favorite memories

1027
00:50:16,245 --> 00:50:19,405
Speaker 2: from my whole life, which is crazy, and you know,

1028
00:50:19,525 --> 00:50:21,405
Speaker 2: just through it all, I just learned so much about

1029
00:50:21,405 --> 00:50:24,365
Speaker 2: people and humans and our capacities to be there for

1030
00:50:24,405 --> 00:50:28,125
Speaker 2: each other and to support each other and just to

1031
00:50:28,725 --> 00:50:29,805
Speaker 2: like I just at the end of the day. I

1032
00:50:29,885 --> 00:50:31,765
Speaker 2: just people are all the matters to me. Now I'

1033
00:50:32,005 --> 00:50:36,325
Speaker 2: just nothing else really, So my whole world now has

1034
00:50:36,365 --> 00:50:39,765
Speaker 2: become I've always had a very very close family, but

1035
00:50:39,765 --> 00:50:42,965
Speaker 2: I'm leaning in harder and going I just want to

1036
00:50:42,965 --> 00:50:44,365
Speaker 2: spend time with you, and I just want to spend

1037
00:50:44,365 --> 00:50:46,885
Speaker 2: time with my friends, and I want to I want

1038
00:50:46,885 --> 00:50:50,085
Speaker 2: to be present with people. I've got no desire to

1039
00:50:50,325 --> 00:50:54,485
Speaker 2: rush through life anymore, so I don't over and never don't.

1040
00:50:54,565 --> 00:50:57,765
Speaker 2: I don't like to overschedule anymore. I like to have open,

1041
00:50:57,845 --> 00:51:00,525
Speaker 2: open days, or like, you know, if I'm seeing a person,

1042
00:51:00,525 --> 00:51:02,565
Speaker 2: I'm not there's not something straight after us, so I

1043
00:51:02,605 --> 00:51:04,765
Speaker 2: want to stay and hang for a while. I'm going

1044
00:51:04,845 --> 00:51:08,205
Speaker 2: to do that and really really be with them. I've

1045
00:51:08,205 --> 00:51:10,805
Speaker 2: also let the people I've had these huge networks, and

1046
00:51:10,805 --> 00:51:13,685
Speaker 2: I was still like the first time in my life

1047
00:51:13,685 --> 00:51:15,525
Speaker 2: I was able to kind of the world. But there

1048
00:51:15,565 --> 00:51:17,565
Speaker 2: word boundaries is actually one that I don't love. I

1049
00:51:17,605 --> 00:51:20,725
Speaker 2: have a complex relationship with it, but I will, for

1050
00:51:20,765 --> 00:51:22,565
Speaker 2: the first time in my life to be like, actually,

1051
00:51:22,565 --> 00:51:24,725
Speaker 2: I can't do that, or I don't want to do that.

1052
00:51:24,885 --> 00:51:28,365
Speaker 1: Or it's given you a clearer filter and what to say.

1053
00:51:28,125 --> 00:51:30,925
Speaker 2: Kind of hide behind cancer in a way because I

1054
00:51:30,925 --> 00:51:33,445
Speaker 2: shouldn't say, but it was there. It gave me a

1055
00:51:33,525 --> 00:51:35,525
Speaker 2: way to say no to things that I hadn't had before.

1056
00:51:35,565 --> 00:51:37,085
Speaker 2: I hadn't had the ability to do the.

1057
00:51:37,045 --> 00:51:39,205
Speaker 1: Extreme people pleasing behavior to need cancers.

1058
00:51:39,205 --> 00:51:44,365
Speaker 2: You're extreme. You know you get to play the card

1059
00:51:44,405 --> 00:51:46,005
Speaker 2: a little bit. I need to.

1060
00:51:47,165 --> 00:51:49,645
Speaker 1: I've got two more things, yeah, okay, to ask you right.

1061
00:51:49,805 --> 00:51:51,885
Speaker 1: One of them is about the Year of Healing, Yes,

1062
00:51:51,965 --> 00:51:55,685
Speaker 1: because I remember when that came about. But tell me

1063
00:51:56,365 --> 00:51:59,805
Speaker 1: how that's going, yeah, and how we extended it to

1064
00:51:59,845 --> 00:52:00,645
Speaker 1: two years of healing.

1065
00:52:01,005 --> 00:52:03,205
Speaker 2: It's going to be a lifetime, yes, I think it is.

1066
00:52:05,125 --> 00:52:07,405
Speaker 2: It's like for you, Yeah, I mean the Year of

1067
00:52:07,405 --> 00:52:09,605
Speaker 2: Healing came about, you know, about that time that I

1068
00:52:09,605 --> 00:52:11,445
Speaker 2: had that full on extreme breakdown and you were there

1069
00:52:11,485 --> 00:52:13,365
Speaker 2: for part of that. There was a night I was

1070
00:52:13,405 --> 00:52:18,565
Speaker 2: in Sydney and I just lost it and I was somehow, Holly,

1071
00:52:18,645 --> 00:52:20,645
Speaker 2: you may seem to be around for the big points.

1072
00:52:21,645 --> 00:52:24,525
Speaker 2: We have this hotel, this hotel that we both stayed

1073
00:52:24,525 --> 00:52:26,565
Speaker 2: at and we now call it the Breakdown Hotel, and

1074
00:52:26,605 --> 00:52:28,165
Speaker 2: I'm not going back there, I know, Dar.

1075
00:52:28,325 --> 00:52:31,165
Speaker 1: I'm staying there tonight, the Breakdown Hotel tonight.

1076
00:52:32,485 --> 00:52:34,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything was coming crashing down, and I realized that

1077
00:52:34,965 --> 00:52:36,685
Speaker 2: I couldn't keep going at that pace and I wasn't

1078
00:52:36,685 --> 00:52:39,325
Speaker 2: going to go back to normal. And so a very

1079
00:52:39,365 --> 00:52:41,445
Speaker 2: very wise friend had said to me, who sort of

1080
00:52:41,445 --> 00:52:43,485
Speaker 2: deals in this sort of sort of stuff, had said

1081
00:52:43,485 --> 00:52:46,765
Speaker 2: to me, you need to take a year. You need

1082
00:52:46,805 --> 00:52:49,525
Speaker 2: to stop for a year and do the work and

1083
00:52:50,765 --> 00:52:51,285
Speaker 2: just get.

1084
00:52:51,125 --> 00:52:55,165
Speaker 1: Yourself better, you know, And you've been writing about it.

1085
00:52:55,405 --> 00:52:57,725
Speaker 2: And then I knew what happened because you the most

1086
00:52:57,885 --> 00:52:58,565
Speaker 2: so loose.

1087
00:52:58,605 --> 00:53:01,445
Speaker 1: Also, I know you don't want to hear deal with compliments,

1088
00:53:01,485 --> 00:53:04,805
Speaker 1: but you are the most beautiful writer. And I hadn't

1089
00:53:04,845 --> 00:53:07,885
Speaker 1: read anything that you'd written for so many years because

1090
00:53:08,885 --> 00:53:11,885
Speaker 1: sifted right, and you've been doing other things, and so also,

1091
00:53:12,525 --> 00:53:16,125
Speaker 1: you know, you've been writing about this journey the word Okay,

1092
00:53:16,205 --> 00:53:18,965
Speaker 1: let's do it on the air of healing, and it

1093
00:53:19,085 --> 00:53:23,565
Speaker 1: is so beautiful and it's connecting so beautifully. That's a

1094
00:53:23,645 --> 00:53:24,885
Speaker 1: gift to peop.

1095
00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:26,805
Speaker 2: I mean, I kind of had this inkling when I

1096
00:53:26,845 --> 00:53:28,445
Speaker 2: decided that I was going to give myself a year.

1097
00:53:29,205 --> 00:53:30,725
Speaker 2: I don't know what came over me, because you know

1098
00:53:30,805 --> 00:53:33,205
Speaker 2: me as well. I've spent my whole career in the background,

1099
00:53:33,525 --> 00:53:36,125
Speaker 2: like I've always been the producer or the behind the scenes.

1100
00:53:36,845 --> 00:53:38,685
Speaker 2: Even coming here today, I was like, Holy, I've never

1101
00:53:38,765 --> 00:53:42,605
Speaker 2: done this before. But for some reason, I wanted to

1102
00:53:42,605 --> 00:53:44,925
Speaker 2: do it publicly, and I thought that if I put

1103
00:53:44,965 --> 00:53:46,805
Speaker 2: a name to it and I told the world that

1104
00:53:46,845 --> 00:53:50,885
Speaker 2: I was doing it, that it might hold me to it.

1105
00:53:50,885 --> 00:53:53,565
Speaker 2: It's not really complex. It meant going back to mum's

1106
00:53:53,565 --> 00:53:57,605
Speaker 2: house for a while and just being taken care of

1107
00:53:58,285 --> 00:54:00,725
Speaker 2: while I figure it out. And it meant looking after

1108
00:54:00,765 --> 00:54:03,205
Speaker 2: your body, looking after my body. Yeah, taking time like

1109
00:54:03,245 --> 00:54:06,525
Speaker 2: health is a big priority for me, going to the gym,

1110
00:54:06,565 --> 00:54:10,605
Speaker 2: trying all kinds of weird and wacky therapies. Wo woo shit.

1111
00:54:10,685 --> 00:54:13,645
Speaker 2: I'm also into it. Let's do it more time with

1112
00:54:13,725 --> 00:54:16,845
Speaker 2: the people I love. Let's focus on needing to get

1113
00:54:16,885 --> 00:54:20,405
Speaker 2: back into the work or the stress or that any

1114
00:54:20,445 --> 00:54:24,525
Speaker 2: of that. And yeah, it's just about time and writing

1115
00:54:24,645 --> 00:54:26,525
Speaker 2: about it and just reflecting. And there's a lot of

1116
00:54:26,605 --> 00:54:30,205
Speaker 2: healing in the writing. And instead of putting those thoughts

1117
00:54:30,245 --> 00:54:33,085
Speaker 2: to paper, I've been able to kind of figure out

1118
00:54:33,085 --> 00:54:34,885
Speaker 2: how I feel about it all to you.

1119
00:54:35,045 --> 00:54:39,845
Speaker 1: And for other people, I think, Okay, let's we've got

1120
00:54:39,885 --> 00:54:41,725
Speaker 1: to leave people with this. I want you to tell

1121
00:54:41,805 --> 00:54:43,885
Speaker 1: me what you want every woman hearing this to walk

1122
00:54:43,925 --> 00:54:46,565
Speaker 1: away thinking about because we're releasing this at the very

1123
00:54:46,765 --> 00:54:49,565
Speaker 1: end of Breast cancer Month, right, Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

1124
00:54:50,125 --> 00:54:52,405
Speaker 1: And I think in the same way that I was

1125
00:54:52,405 --> 00:54:54,045
Speaker 1: saying at the beginning that I think that in lots

1126
00:54:54,085 --> 00:54:56,525
Speaker 1: of ways we've become quite complacent about breast cancer. I

1127
00:54:56,525 --> 00:54:59,005
Speaker 1: think even in Breast Cancer Awareness Month is like this

1128
00:54:59,205 --> 00:55:01,845
Speaker 1: haze of pink and we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, But like,

1129
00:55:02,005 --> 00:55:04,525
Speaker 1: what's the thing you really want people to hear from

1130
00:55:04,525 --> 00:55:05,325
Speaker 1: this conversation?

1131
00:55:06,005 --> 00:55:07,605
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I said before, I think we're all aware

1132
00:55:07,605 --> 00:55:10,245
Speaker 2: of breast cancer. The month has on its job. We

1133
00:55:10,285 --> 00:55:13,245
Speaker 2: know that breast cancer exists, but do we really know

1134
00:55:13,285 --> 00:55:16,165
Speaker 2: what it entails. I don't think we do what I

1135
00:55:16,245 --> 00:55:18,765
Speaker 2: want people to know. And this is you know, I

1136
00:55:18,805 --> 00:55:21,605
Speaker 2: think October is amazing because it does give us a

1137
00:55:21,645 --> 00:55:24,445
Speaker 2: reason to talk about it and a focus. But you know,

1138
00:55:24,485 --> 00:55:29,605
Speaker 2: this is ongoing. What I've learned is that early detection

1139
00:55:30,165 --> 00:55:32,805
Speaker 2: to save lives is there's a line they say. I

1140
00:55:32,845 --> 00:55:34,565
Speaker 2: think it's really easy to think that it's not going

1141
00:55:34,645 --> 00:55:37,045
Speaker 2: to be me. I didn't think it would be me.

1142
00:55:38,205 --> 00:55:40,085
Speaker 2: You know, I'm too young for breast cancer. I have

1143
00:55:40,165 --> 00:55:43,605
Speaker 2: no family history, I'm not too young for breast cancer.

1144
00:55:44,245 --> 00:55:46,245
Speaker 2: I've got a whole lot of new friends, you know,

1145
00:55:46,365 --> 00:55:48,765
Speaker 2: I mean a support group that's all young people with

1146
00:55:48,805 --> 00:55:53,125
Speaker 2: breast cancer. We're not too young for breast cancer. And

1147
00:55:53,205 --> 00:55:55,605
Speaker 2: most of us don't have family histories. And we've also

1148
00:55:55,805 --> 00:55:57,245
Speaker 2: you know, come to know that. I think it's over

1149
00:55:57,405 --> 00:56:00,125
Speaker 2: ninety about ninety percent of people who are diagnosed don't

1150
00:56:00,125 --> 00:56:02,965
Speaker 2: have a family history. There's a real misconception on that.

1151
00:56:03,605 --> 00:56:05,845
Speaker 2: I just want people to this beautiful campaign at the

1152
00:56:05,845 --> 00:56:08,685
Speaker 2: moment out by Breast Cancer Network Australia. It's all about

1153
00:56:08,765 --> 00:56:11,365
Speaker 2: knowing your breast. So you could head to their website

1154
00:56:11,405 --> 00:56:12,965
Speaker 2: and have a look and they talk you through how

1155
00:56:13,005 --> 00:56:15,485
Speaker 2: to know your breasts and that's through look so by

1156
00:56:15,525 --> 00:56:18,645
Speaker 2: looking at them, also by feel so that if something

1157
00:56:18,685 --> 00:56:21,845
Speaker 2: does change, whether it is you can feel a lump,

1158
00:56:22,325 --> 00:56:25,085
Speaker 2: there can be other signs like your nipple can be inverted.

1159
00:56:25,165 --> 00:56:29,605
Speaker 2: There can be god a rash or indent or something

1160
00:56:29,725 --> 00:56:33,205
Speaker 2: like that that you're aware of it. And then also

1161
00:56:34,085 --> 00:56:36,885
Speaker 2: if you're eligible and it's over forty in Australia, you're

1162
00:56:36,885 --> 00:56:39,485
Speaker 2: eligible for a mamogram. I don't think that necessarily means

1163
00:56:39,525 --> 00:56:40,965
Speaker 2: you have to run off and get one, but talk

1164
00:56:41,005 --> 00:56:43,285
Speaker 2: to your GP about whether you should be getting one.

1165
00:56:44,125 --> 00:56:46,285
Speaker 2: And if you're over fifty, you'll actually get letters from

1166
00:56:46,325 --> 00:56:49,285
Speaker 2: the government to say, hey, have you been lately. I

1167
00:56:49,325 --> 00:56:53,005
Speaker 2: want us all to be asking our friends. So, Holly,

1168
00:56:53,445 --> 00:56:54,725
Speaker 2: when was your last mamogram?

1169
00:56:55,005 --> 00:56:59,205
Speaker 1: I go religiously now, so it was about six months ago.

1170
00:57:00,085 --> 00:57:03,645
Speaker 1: I'm over fifty, so I get my letter in the mail.

1171
00:57:03,725 --> 00:57:07,925
Speaker 1: It's amazing, it's free, it's quick, it's easy. The women

1172
00:57:07,965 --> 00:57:12,805
Speaker 1: there are great. And I have an am sometimes guilty

1173
00:57:12,925 --> 00:57:16,885
Speaker 1: of ignoring my body and what it's telling me because

1174
00:57:16,925 --> 00:57:20,885
Speaker 1: I'm like, busy, busy, busy, busy, too busy, But this,

1175
00:57:21,645 --> 00:57:25,565
Speaker 1: I don't fuck around with this, especially not since you

1176
00:57:26,285 --> 00:57:29,845
Speaker 1: and I know that you talking about this, which doesn't,

1177
00:57:29,845 --> 00:57:32,405
Speaker 1: as you said, doesn't come naturally. But you've already really

1178
00:57:32,405 --> 00:57:35,005
Speaker 1: helped some people who found things because you've nagged them

1179
00:57:35,005 --> 00:57:35,445
Speaker 1: about it.

1180
00:57:35,765 --> 00:57:38,525
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was telling you earlier. Two women have now

1181
00:57:38,525 --> 00:57:40,845
Speaker 2: come to me and said, like I said, it's not

1182
00:57:40,925 --> 00:57:42,725
Speaker 2: natural for me to be the one to talk about

1183
00:57:42,965 --> 00:57:45,805
Speaker 2: staff and to share my story. But two women have

1184
00:57:45,885 --> 00:57:47,765
Speaker 2: now come to me and said, either they have been

1185
00:57:47,765 --> 00:57:51,285
Speaker 2: diagnosed or a relative of theirs has been diagnosed, because

1186
00:57:51,285 --> 00:57:53,885
Speaker 2: they've read something that I've shared or something you know,

1187
00:57:54,005 --> 00:57:56,685
Speaker 2: heard something that I've said, and I sort of had

1188
00:57:56,685 --> 00:57:59,325
Speaker 2: this realization that Okay, I can do something with this

1189
00:57:59,725 --> 00:58:03,565
Speaker 2: and we can make a bit of a difference, and yeah,

1190
00:58:03,725 --> 00:58:06,765
Speaker 2: check you Boob's girls. Because as aware as we are,

1191
00:58:06,845 --> 00:58:09,565
Speaker 2: there's still I think it's over twenty thousand women. Man

1192
00:58:09,565 --> 00:58:11,725
Speaker 2: actually today, actually on the day we record is male

1193
00:58:11,765 --> 00:58:12,805
Speaker 2: breast cancer Wednesday.

1194
00:58:13,765 --> 00:58:15,525
Speaker 1: It's not even something you think about.

1195
00:58:15,565 --> 00:58:17,925
Speaker 2: But they're getting diagnosed her and that's really important to know.

1196
00:58:18,045 --> 00:58:19,925
Speaker 2: And there's a real shame that comes with it, come

1197
00:58:20,005 --> 00:58:23,165
Speaker 2: with a man. And I really feel for them because, yeah,

1198
00:58:23,285 --> 00:58:25,205
Speaker 2: so the man and the women just check and beware

1199
00:58:25,285 --> 00:58:27,365
Speaker 2: that goes for all parts of your body. Just if

1200
00:58:27,365 --> 00:58:29,685
Speaker 2: something's not right, I really really urge you just to

1201
00:58:30,605 --> 00:58:33,605
Speaker 2: go to the doctor, to the GP. And I heard

1202
00:58:33,645 --> 00:58:37,085
Speaker 2: something beautiful on a podcast the other day from a

1203
00:58:37,125 --> 00:58:40,045
Speaker 2: woman in the US who has breast cancer. And she said,

1204
00:58:40,165 --> 00:58:42,445
Speaker 2: because I think it's easy for gps to often be

1205
00:58:42,525 --> 00:58:44,565
Speaker 2: like no, you know, to say you're too young. Well

1206
00:58:44,565 --> 00:58:47,565
Speaker 2: that's probably not that. If you are really worried, she said,

1207
00:58:48,605 --> 00:58:50,445
Speaker 2: pretend that you know me, Like, don't just say I

1208
00:58:50,485 --> 00:58:53,525
Speaker 2: heard this thing. Say my friend Lucy was thirty seven

1209
00:58:53,965 --> 00:58:57,325
Speaker 2: when she was diagnosed, so I'd really like you to

1210
00:58:57,365 --> 00:58:59,765
Speaker 2: send me for an ultrasound or to refer me to

1211
00:58:59,805 --> 00:59:03,245
Speaker 2: the right places, like please don't dismiss me and say

1212
00:59:03,245 --> 00:59:05,645
Speaker 2: it's probably not right. And I thought that was really

1213
00:59:05,685 --> 00:59:07,285
Speaker 2: helpful if you can sort of put a name to

1214
00:59:07,285 --> 00:59:09,285
Speaker 2: it and say my friend. So please, I'm your friend.

1215
00:59:09,965 --> 00:59:11,845
Speaker 1: Well I'm lucky enough that you really are my friend.

1216
00:59:12,045 --> 00:59:12,965
Speaker 2: That's nice, isn't it.

1217
00:59:13,565 --> 00:59:16,525
Speaker 1: So thank you Lucy Ormond for coming on and telling

1218
00:59:16,605 --> 00:59:19,285
Speaker 1: us your story, because you know, I love you and

1219
00:59:19,325 --> 00:59:22,285
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so proud of you and in awe of you.

1220
00:59:22,405 --> 00:59:26,485
Speaker 1: And also I just can't imagine what you've been through,

1221
00:59:26,525 --> 00:59:28,485
Speaker 1: even though I've been there, like to a point, I

1222
00:59:28,525 --> 00:59:31,445
Speaker 1: can't imagine it. And I just want everyone listening to

1223
00:59:31,485 --> 00:59:34,525
Speaker 1: this to do what Lucy tells them to do.

1224
00:59:34,885 --> 00:59:36,605
Speaker 2: Thank you, hollywaen Right, I love you.

1225
00:59:36,965 --> 00:59:41,525
Speaker 1: I love you too. Thank you so much for listening

1226
00:59:41,605 --> 00:59:44,325
Speaker 1: to No Filter today. This episode means a great deal

1227
00:59:44,365 --> 00:59:46,805
Speaker 1: to me. I'm sure you know why, and I'm sure

1228
00:59:46,845 --> 00:59:49,685
Speaker 1: it does to you too. And just sending enormous love

1229
00:59:50,125 --> 00:59:53,445
Speaker 1: to anybody listening to this who's been touched by cancer

1230
00:59:53,525 --> 00:59:55,965
Speaker 1: of any kind. If you want to find out more

1231
00:59:56,085 --> 00:59:58,765
Speaker 1: and find some resources to help you or anyone you

1232
00:59:58,805 --> 01:00:00,405
Speaker 1: know or love. We're going to put a link to

1233
01:00:00,445 --> 01:00:03,485
Speaker 1: the National Breast Council Foundation and to some other really

1234
01:00:03,605 --> 01:00:06,845
Speaker 1: useful sights in our show notes. Sending enormous love to

1235
01:00:06,885 --> 01:00:09,645
Speaker 1: you all. The executive producer of no film What is

1236
01:00:09,725 --> 01:00:13,365
Speaker 1: nam A Brown? The senior producer is Bree Player. Audio

1237
01:00:13,405 --> 01:00:16,605
Speaker 1: production is by Tina Mattaloff, and video editing is by

1238
01:00:16,685 --> 01:00:20,805
Speaker 1: Josh Green. I'm Holly Wainwright and thank you as always

1239
01:00:21,045 --> 01:00:30,645
Speaker 1: for listening to nofeld Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners

1240
01:00:30,725 --> 01:00:33,805
Speaker 1: of the land. We've recorded this podcast on the Gadagal

1241
01:00:33,885 --> 01:00:37,205
Speaker 1: people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to

1242
01:00:37,205 --> 01:00:40,205
Speaker 1: their elders past and present, and extend that respect to

1243
01:00:40,325 --> 01:00:43,365
Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torrestrate islander cultures.