Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mola Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Friday, the tenth of April.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright Stevens and I'm m Burnham.
Speaker 1: And here's what's made our agenda for this Friday. There's
Speaker 1: a hack to simplifying your life that is also the
Speaker 1: perfect excuse for lazy girls. Welcome to your Signature Everything Era.
Speaker 2: Plus there's a new way to do your lipstick and
Speaker 2: I guarantee you're not coming.
Speaker 1: To like it.
Speaker 3: And the woman who discovered her boyfriend had discussed all
Speaker 3: his doubts about their relationship with chat gpt.
Speaker 1: Oh, dear but first and vernon.
Speaker 2: According to science, there's always according to science. But then
Speaker 2: I never do the step further finding out what the
Speaker 2: science is.
Speaker 1: Science is a person. According to science, there's a specific type.
Speaker 2: Of dance that men do that women find most appealing.
Speaker 1: I've seen it. It's on bad Bunny.
Speaker 2: Oh it's not that cool, I'm telling you right now.
Speaker 1: Sorry.
Speaker 2: So Haymi s Shenandy brought this to my attention. Our
Speaker 2: model enemies, our nemesia scientists in the UK have come
Speaker 2: up with a little video of this avatar dancing and
Speaker 2: it's meant to be very attractive to women. So I
Speaker 2: think they got a bunch of women together. This is
Speaker 2: what I'm assuming that happened. They got a bunch of
Speaker 2: women together and they're like, what's your favorite type of
Speaker 2: dancing man? And one was like, I like hit movements,
Speaker 2: and one woman's like I like dance and they put
Speaker 2: it all in this avatar and he's just doing the most.
Speaker 1: And is it sexy?
Speaker 2: So what Hami Shinandy did was that they got together
Speaker 2: with their producer Jack and they all wore the same
Speaker 2: outfit with a paper bag on the head, and they
Speaker 2: all took turns doing a dance for thirty seconds, and
Speaker 2: they got five women to vote for who was the
Speaker 2: best dancer. Hamish was the one who learned the avatar dance,
Speaker 2: who learned the alleged like really attractive dance, and this
Speaker 2: is what he looked like.
Speaker 1: By doing scientifically most sexy dance. But it's on me
Speaker 1: if I can recreate the sample that I have, what
Speaker 1: is running.
Speaker 4: Man starts with, well, that's quite hot.
Speaker 1: I like that that that circle work, arms coordination.
Speaker 2: You can tell who's concentrating so hard even with a
Speaker 2: bag on his head.
Speaker 1: The clapping is that hot?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I hate when you're going to take someone
Speaker 2: out with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah you are, you are. It's very it's very
Speaker 4: like man's pready.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's taking a lot little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: Do we like a man to take up space on the.
Speaker 2: Dance and it becomes a performance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've just realized that I mum danced my way
Speaker 1: through this. This is really mortifying.
Speaker 2: Hamish nearly came last when these women voted. But I
Speaker 2: don't think like those kind of moves seem a bit
Speaker 2: aggressive for me.
Speaker 1: Yes, show me you can do it from a seedy position.
Speaker 1: But what you like how you like a man to dance?
Speaker 2: Shoulders, shoulders and like some gentle hips emphasis on the
Speaker 2: gentle Yeah, gentle.
Speaker 1: Hips not bad.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to be twerking, but then the
Speaker 2: guy next to me is a better t worker than me.
Speaker 4: You don't want to be at work?
Speaker 1: Do you want him to be reacting to your twerking?
Speaker 1: Not like that? In general? Like as he can give
Speaker 1: me some but like stay away from me, sir.
Speaker 3: I think on a dance floor, men generally not always
Speaker 3: need to be somewhat neutral dancing Like, yes, I see
Speaker 3: what you're saying with the like this, and then coordinating
Speaker 3: with the hips. But if you're going too much, that
Speaker 3: is overshadowing the ladies, many of whom have spent decades
Speaker 3: in dance.
Speaker 2: Class, traumatized on dance classes. And if you want to
Speaker 2: do the worm, do it once and you're done.
Speaker 1: No multiple worms have to.
Speaker 4: Be good at it. You don't have to watch you get.
Speaker 2: Into a circle for you to be bad at the worm.
Speaker 1: I spent last weekend camping with middle aged men. I
Speaker 1: saw the sprinkler yep, oh yeah, lots of robots like
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing, and much pointing. This
Speaker 1: is what a lot of middle age men do, a
Speaker 1: lot of pointing. The thing is is, when I was
Speaker 1: younger and I was clubbing and stuff I did used
Speaker 1: to think men who dance were really hot because I
Speaker 1: liked the abandon and the confidence that it meant, although
Speaker 1: probably in the era that I was clubbing, and also
Speaker 1: meant they just take a lot of trucks. But they
Speaker 1: were like confident and abandoned and they were having a
Speaker 1: good time, and I was always attracted to that. But
Speaker 1: there's a line that the tip over where if they're
Speaker 1: expecting everyone to kind of like circle around them almost
Speaker 1: and make them the feature. Then that's you've tipped over
Speaker 1: into the not attractive anymore territory.
Speaker 3: I find a man who can dance so incredibly sexy.
Speaker 1: Harry Styles.
Speaker 3: Oh so he's actually not the sexiest. To me, the
Speaker 3: sexiest male dancer isn't always will be Zaka Fron.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, there is a scene he hits the water.
Speaker 3: There is a scene in a terrible, i'd call it
Speaker 3: appalling movie called New Year's Eve, but there is a
Speaker 3: saving gray scene at the end where zac Efron.
Speaker 4: Just has a dance hot and greatest showman. He's amazing.
Speaker 3: But when I saw this Hamish, Andy and Jack dance,
Speaker 3: I thought it was very clever. For one that they
Speaker 3: all wore the same outfit. They wore Andy's outfit because
Speaker 3: Hamish and Jack's outfits that day were horrific. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: wore they wore shorts, and shorts would be an ick
Speaker 3: and that was very clever.
Speaker 4: But none of their dancing was sexy.
Speaker 3: And this dance that the freaking robot does is absolutely appalling.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not.
Speaker 3: Face on it though, No, because zac Efron is quite
Speaker 3: he's quite technically skilled, like every now and then.
Speaker 4: She goes into like a Michael Jackson move.
Speaker 1: Do you think that if you were on a date
Speaker 1: with Ryan Gosling, this is something I think about a lot.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he would just suddenly break into
Speaker 1: like full la la la tap because that's hot. I
Speaker 1: can tap. That's hot.
Speaker 2: Well while you're just walking to get your groceries and
Speaker 2: tap dancing Bruno mars He's a good dance of Bruno
Speaker 2: mars Is.
Speaker 4: The sexy dance is the other one.
Speaker 3: For people who say, like, oh, I don't really like
Speaker 3: fine men dancing hot Channing Tatum, give me five seconds
Speaker 3: of that that show that was.
Speaker 4: All the sexy magic, the magic mic show. I don't pret.
Speaker 2: You don't know what it's called.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 4: Men who can sexy dance.
Speaker 1: Just scientifically proven to be hot. Okay, even with bag
Speaker 1: on head taking notes, tick it off. No air guitar though,
Speaker 1: Brent needs to take notes on that. That's the other
Speaker 1: middle aged man is the guitar, and it looks very
Speaker 1: sexy only to me. To me, okay, moving on, I
Speaker 1: am going to change your lives with some very important
Speaker 1: information that I found out this week on a substack
Speaker 1: that's why we change lives these days, friends sign up
Speaker 1: to the mom and me are out loud. One this
Speaker 1: woman called Shiera Gill. She is a world renowned organizational expert.
Speaker 1: She's written books about how to like streamline things, make
Speaker 1: fewer decisions in your life, be cool, be classy. Her vibe,
Speaker 1: her esthetic is very Gwyneth kind of beige. La your
Speaker 1: dream Yeah, like I would love this shit. I just
Speaker 1: I can't pull it off. But anyway, She wrote and
Speaker 1: substack about how we all need to adopt a signature
Speaker 1: everything and it will change our lives. Let me explain,
Speaker 1: She wrote, we make roughly thirty five thousand decisions a day.
Speaker 1: I don't think I do.
Speaker 4: No, I don't thirty five that's a lot, right, How
Speaker 4: can I make five?
Speaker 1: And then you just go with the flow. Most of
Speaker 1: them so small, we don't even read just to making them,
Speaker 1: what to wear, what to eat for breakfast, which coffee
Speaker 1: to order? Da da da da. Collectively, they drain our
Speaker 1: mental energy, says Shira, before we've even started the meaningful
Speaker 1: work of our day. So she created this thing called
Speaker 1: the one thing rule, which means that you choose one
Speaker 1: good quality thing instead of five less well blah blah's
Speaker 1: going to simple five year life, and now she's got
Speaker 1: this new one having a signature everything. She says, recently,
Speaker 1: I decided to take the concept of one good thing
Speaker 1: a step further with the idea of creating a signature everything,
Speaker 1: removing decision fatigue wherever I can. Some examples a signature uniform.
Speaker 1: So for Shier, that is jeans and a white T shirt,
Speaker 1: which is what Hamish and Andy and Jack were wearing.
Speaker 2: It's kind of what I'm wearing right now.
Speaker 3: It is it is. It is a hot signature outfit.
Speaker 3: I always think about Steve Jobs any signature outfit. I
Speaker 3: need to be more like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, signature outfit. Signature bag, she says. Shira says she
Speaker 1: has three bags that do all the jobs. She has
Speaker 1: a more crossbody for evenings, a mid size for weekends,
Speaker 1: and a tote for work days. And they're all from Selene.
Speaker 1: I did the maths. That signature is about ten thousand dollars. Oh,
Speaker 1: but I imagine one is allowed to do it in
Speaker 1: a less one percent fashion and just get but like
Speaker 1: three bags of different sizes that all kind of go together,
Speaker 1: and only those bags.
Speaker 3: My signature bag is a backpack that my husband bought
Speaker 3: me on Amazon because he was disgusted by the state
Speaker 3: of my bag at that point.
Speaker 4: But now this bag has rotten benin. Yeah, it's my signature.
Speaker 1: Your signature signature snack, Yeah exactly. Now we all probably
Speaker 1: have these signatures without even thinking about them. Coffee order,
Speaker 1: drink order, tea we drink? Is it a signature?
Speaker 2: Is just something you like?
Speaker 3: I know I didn't agree that your coffee order is
Speaker 3: a signature. I think that's just the coffee that you like.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but it is your signature because people know
Speaker 1: it about you. And then it becomes we're like, oh, Claire,
Speaker 1: she's such a Actually I don't know what yours is
Speaker 1: slat white girl.
Speaker 4: I think, sorry, you think I can have a coffee?
Speaker 4: This doesn't have a little bit.
Speaker 1: But also Shira says we should pick, we should extend
Speaker 1: signatures beyond those things. So a signature place to go,
Speaker 1: so if you've got something to celebrate, always go there.
Speaker 1: A signature gift, a signature menu if people ever come
Speaker 1: to your house, and even a signature workout. So basically,
Speaker 1: if someone comes to your house and you're always giving
Speaker 1: them the same thing. It's not laziness or predictability. It's
Speaker 1: your signature.
Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of true.
Speaker 2: Like they all get a tin of tuna straight from
Speaker 2: the tin we.
Speaker 1: All share to everybody, so it's like the.
Speaker 2: Garlic chili ones.
Speaker 1: It's quite nice. I love that one. Is this genius
Speaker 1: in simplifying your life? Or is this a massive cop out?
Speaker 3: I think that there is an element of it that
Speaker 3: is actually genius because it does cut out a lot
Speaker 3: of that decision making. However, some of them they do
Speaker 3: border on Actually, no, they don't border on ridiculous.
Speaker 4: Because I think all of us do.
Speaker 3: Have a signature of all of those things.
Speaker 4: They're just not something that we're proud of.
Speaker 3: So when people come to my house, my signature meal
Speaker 3: is takeaway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it always the same takeaway though? Or is
Speaker 1: it like a takeaway of their choice?
Speaker 3: No, chaos, can't make can't make a decisions. And then
Speaker 3: signature dessert and this I have to credit my partner
Speaker 3: for this. It is actually a block of dairy milk
Speaker 3: chocolate torn up and put on a small white.
Speaker 1: Rust.
Speaker 4: Really proud when he served it. Everyone likes it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Motion control exactly and beyond your tuna I've got
Speaker 1: some signatures.
Speaker 2: I've got a signature parking technique where it's a bit
Speaker 2: slightly away from the curve to the point where other
Speaker 2: car think I'm going to like try to redo it,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, chokes on you.
Speaker 1: I'm getting out.
Speaker 2: And if i'm if I come to an event with
Speaker 2: a group of people, they look at the car and
Speaker 2: be like you drive, didn't you? Yes, I'm like, yep,
Speaker 2: that's my person.
Speaker 1: I must be here exactly.
Speaker 2: I've started doing this thing where I have like a
Speaker 2: I wanted like a signature gift, but not something you buy.
Speaker 2: And I was like, maybe I should start making cards
Speaker 2: so I can.
Speaker 1: Make personal I did this one time.
Speaker 2: I started and I did one and it took two
Speaker 2: hours because you get too into it so you can
Speaker 2: want to add more. And now my car card is
Speaker 2: like five centimeters stick and it won't fit in them
Speaker 2: stuck like crafty things. Oh just only stick is Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not making mark I can't be handwriting
Speaker 2: stuff it.
Speaker 1: No no no no.
Speaker 2: So like I'm like, I did it in a way
Speaker 2: where if I give it to someone, they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I did like a child make this like and be
Speaker 2: like yeah, I employed the child to do this for you.
Speaker 1: I realized my house as a signature sent because I
Speaker 1: think that's important. I'm sure sheer would improve of a
Speaker 1: signature sent like a candle. Well, no, mine is move
Speaker 1: headline solutions. My house always smells of that. Somebody in
Speaker 1: my house has always been donated within the twenty four
Speaker 1: hour period.
Speaker 2: Which is great because when someone comes over and be like, wow,
Speaker 2: my sinus is just all.
Speaker 1: Cleaned up, just gone. My kids have a signature lunch box,
Speaker 1: which is a plastic bag. I think many years of
Speaker 1: lunch boxes, they get lost, they get manky, whatever. Now
Speaker 1: it's just your teenagers. Here's a sandwich in a plastic bag.
Speaker 1: That's very thoughtful signature. We have a signature Sunday night
Speaker 1: ritual in our house, which is swearing at each other
Speaker 1: over a mountain of clean washing. You've got to fold it. Yes,
Speaker 1: so those things are but I do think about this.
Speaker 1: We do have some serious signatures. We In fact, we've
Speaker 1: got this questionnaire we're doing in the newsletter at the
Speaker 1: minute sign off if you want to see it, and
Speaker 1: it did have like your signature, dish your signature, drink
Speaker 1: your signature, or when you get when you go to
Speaker 1: a restaurant. I just think that putting signature in front
Speaker 1: of anything makes it sound much classier than it is. Right,
Speaker 1: it does, because is giving someone a signature gift, for example,
Speaker 1: thoughtful or just is it that really all about you?
Speaker 1: So it's like your birthday's coming up, you're always going
Speaker 1: to get I don't know, a copy of your book,
Speaker 1: see whatever every year, just coming around, just every year,
Speaker 1: or a bottle of something or a block of dairy milk.
Speaker 1: And so is that reassuring because you'd always be like, yes,
Speaker 1: I know I can count on Claire for the dairy milk.
Speaker 1: Or is it like Claire doesn't even see me anymore?
Speaker 1: What do you know?
Speaker 3: Because in my dreams, one day, I live in this
Speaker 3: big house and I have a closet that is just
Speaker 3: for gifts that I've pre planned, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: a friend's birthday and I go, oh, I'll go to
Speaker 3: my cupboard a gift couverard of dip tea candy.
Speaker 4: That's all I ever want is a dip cand.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know if you're signat gift
Speaker 1: was a dip te? No?
Speaker 4: And like if you were really rich, they could be
Speaker 4: the really big ones. But anyway, the.
Speaker 1: Little timy one candle.
Speaker 3: And I think for kids as well, like if you
Speaker 3: if you had like a particular book that you just
Speaker 3: always gifted someone when they had a baby or whatever.
Speaker 4: But the trap, this is the trap with having a signature.
Speaker 3: Gift, is if you do decide to change things or
Speaker 3: your situation changes, it's really destabilizing. So I had an uncle,
Speaker 3: I mean I still have the uncle.
Speaker 4: We have beef.
Speaker 3: Because every Christmas it was cash, and it was a
Speaker 3: certain amount of cash, and I got really used to
Speaker 3: budgeting my summer relying on this cash. And then one
Speaker 3: year I guess I wasn't a kid anymore because I
Speaker 3: was thirty and the cash stopped coming, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: where's my signature gift?
Speaker 1: That's fair, that's fair. I didn't like because how long
Speaker 1: can you pull off the signature gift for I know,
Speaker 1: I don't think it can be a signature gift, but
Speaker 1: I think it can be a signature gift giver.
Speaker 2: Where your signature thing is being really good at giving
Speaker 2: really thoughtful gifts. I have a friend who is the
Speaker 2: best gift giver ever that whenever someone's birthday were like,
Speaker 2: we cannot wait for her gift because you know what's
Speaker 2: going to imagine the pressure so so good. But that's
Speaker 2: just like what she likes to do. She's like and
Speaker 2: it doesn't always have to be expensive. It will be
Speaker 2: something like if you go to a house and you
Speaker 2: compliment like one of her prints, then she'll go to
Speaker 2: that printer, that designer and be like, my friend wants
Speaker 2: is for a birthday? Can you do something for her?
Speaker 2: And like it's very thoughtful. It's because she spends so
Speaker 2: much time thinking about it.
Speaker 1: But if we could remember anything, we'd know what aneagram
Speaker 1: she was from last week's show. Yeah, because that is
Speaker 1: a high degree of people pleasing but in a good.
Speaker 4: Way to help me.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's probably a two because my friend one of
Speaker 1: my she's really good at gifts too, and she does
Speaker 1: what you say clip. When she sees a thing that
Speaker 1: she knows that you or whatever your kids would like,
Speaker 1: she buys it, even if it's nowhere near your birthday,
Speaker 1: Even if your birthday is in December but it's January,
Speaker 1: she'll buy it, put in a cupboard and then remember
Speaker 1: all the way through in December that she bought you
Speaker 1: that thing. And I am in awe of that level
Speaker 1: of organization because every now and again, you know, I
Speaker 1: like to try to be Gwyneth, so I'll be like
Speaker 1: dehydrated citrus. I do have one of those machines. But anyway,
Speaker 1: the dehydrat is sit. And so at Christmas last year,
Speaker 1: I gave you a lot awesome dehydra that was your
Speaker 1: signature gift in a plastic bags together this far into
Speaker 1: the thoughtful gift giving, and then I was like, who
Speaker 1: has little jars? Who has pleasing little jars?
Speaker 4: Well, no, that's your signature. That's really important.
Speaker 3: That's true out louders in a moment, what are you
Speaker 3: telling chatchpt? And what if somebody else read it? I
Speaker 3: read a substack last week that made me completely rethink
Speaker 3: the way I'm using CHATJPT. I'm now terrified. The piece
Speaker 3: was called I Stumbled across my Boyfriend's chat cheept and
Speaker 3: It Ended Our Relationship by Lindsay Hall. Excellent headline, Lindsey,
Speaker 3: and it tells the story of how she was on
Speaker 3: the lounge with her now ex boyfriend and she needed
Speaker 3: to borrow his laptop, so she had been on her
Speaker 3: phone doing some work. Phone runs out of that tree.
Speaker 3: She needs to finish this last thing.
Speaker 4: Open his laptop.
Speaker 1: You know, if a story starts like that, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: things are not going to hand.
Speaker 3: Well, opens his laptop and it's already opened to his
Speaker 3: Chatjept and she notices in the sidebar a past chat
Speaker 3: titled relationship issues and uncertain Do.
Speaker 1: You click on that?
Speaker 4: Do you click?
Speaker 1: If you see that in your boyfriend's husband's search history
Speaker 1: right there, do you click on it? That's the first
Speaker 1: question that is thrown up by this excellent story.
Speaker 3: I think I now have the self restraint that I
Speaker 3: wouldn't because I know how badly it would.
Speaker 4: And it's like, what, I don't know, Clay.
Speaker 1: And you've dated, you've done some dating A clicking on that?
Speaker 2: There have been relationships in my past nine hundred percent
Speaker 2: would click on that link even if it wasn't in
Speaker 2: my face.
Speaker 1: I would look for it.
Speaker 2: I would search it in the search bar. Is it
Speaker 2: going to break up with me? And there's also been
Speaker 2: relationships where I wouldn't click on it because I've been
Speaker 2: secure in that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: See, I think I'd be like, oh, mate, you got
Speaker 3: too much toil on your hair.
Speaker 1: I think that's my theory about snooping, because in general,
Speaker 1: I'm very anti snooping, like going through your partner's phone,
Speaker 1: and I genuinely think you never find anything you want
Speaker 1: to know. But if you if you feel like you
Speaker 1: know there's something going on, whatever it is, and you
Speaker 1: need evidence for it, that's the only time to snoop.
Speaker 1: And I feel like Lindsay must have somewhere had a
Speaker 1: little tickle in a tummy going like you it's your
Speaker 1: phone has run out on purpose. There's no there's no
Speaker 1: accident here.
Speaker 3: Because I think for Lindsay it was about the cats.
Speaker 1: Because tell me more.
Speaker 3: For Lindsey, she had three cats, and the central tension
Speaker 3: of their relationship that had been going for five months
Speaker 3: was that her partner was like, too many cats.
Speaker 1: Three cats. There's a lot of cats.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of cats.
Speaker 1: Like, no offense to all our lovely cat loving audience,
Speaker 1: but three is a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the tension had been around creating mess and
Speaker 3: chaos and just too much, too much cat energy, and so.
Speaker 4: She thought that's what it was going to be. So
Speaker 4: that's why she clicked.
Speaker 1: She's like, I need to hear yeah thoughts about my cat,
Speaker 1: about my cat, little Lucifer. I know he doesn't like it.
Speaker 2: I want that level of security, whereas if I'm going
Speaker 2: to look into something that says relationship problems and uncertainty,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's about the cats. Can't be about
Speaker 2: anything else, I know.
Speaker 3: So, but then she clicks on it and the first
Speaker 3: thing she sees is chat GPT's response, from what you're sharing,
Speaker 3: you should consider ending the relationship. And she's like, I
Speaker 3: don't think this is about the cats. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's the cats. So her then boyfriend had asked, should
Speaker 3: I be in love after three and a half months.
Speaker 3: Further down, he'd written, well, the cat's definitely, and then
Speaker 3: there's the whole attraction thing.
Speaker 4: Oh and later he had said she was too petite
Speaker 4: to frail looking.
Speaker 3: He basically criticized her physical appearance, and then later he
Speaker 3: had typed, I'm just not proud of her. And she
Speaker 3: writes in this article, the fact this was on chat
Speaker 3: chpt in its own way made the whole thing feel
Speaker 3: even more grotesque and surreal. It was like accidentally reading
Speaker 3: someone's diary, except the diary was a fucking robot, predisposed
Speaker 3: to agree with him, ready to take his cruel thoughts
Speaker 3: and shape them into something that sounded reasonable. So she
Speaker 3: confronted him, he said it was more nuanced than it looked.
Speaker 3: She ended up dating him for a little bit longer,
Speaker 3: but she said basically, once she could not unknow what
Speaker 3: she had seen, she couldn't unsee it. So she also
Speaker 3: says that you always suspect that the people that you
Speaker 3: love find you a little bit annoying at times. They
Speaker 3: probably don't always have the most charitable thoughts. But she
Speaker 3: says it's another thing entirely to read the actual transcript.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really because when I read this, when you
Speaker 1: shared this with me, I was like, in some ways,
Speaker 1: my first instinct was to defend him, And I don't
Speaker 1: really know why, except that I think it's probably that
Speaker 1: we all know that we have inner thoughts about the
Speaker 1: people in our lives that you know, it's probably best
Speaker 1: not to voice out loud because it wants you do.
Speaker 1: It's a bigger deal. And men are notoriously bad at
Speaker 1: intimate relationships with friends. So there's a world in which
Speaker 1: you could be, well, he's telling he's talking to the
Speaker 1: robot about his relationship, rather than saying, well, there's the
Speaker 1: attraction thing to like his mate or his sister or
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who then forever that would be frozen
Speaker 1: in their mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know how you've probably got a friend or someone
Speaker 1: in your life, or maybe you've done it where they've
Speaker 1: told you things about their relationship that you can't forget,
Speaker 1: but the relationships moved on, and you're like, but I
Speaker 1: thought you thought that she was.
Speaker 4: I have so many of it. It was probably just.
Speaker 1: A moment in time, right, and that he was just
Speaker 1: voicing his insecurities or his worries or his thoughts about
Speaker 1: her at a moment in time. But so my first
Speaker 1: instinct was to be a little bit defensive of that
Speaker 1: and think like, well, he's just talking to somebody about
Speaker 1: his doubts and we all have doubts. But then I
Speaker 1: just thought about how you could ever come back from
Speaker 1: seeing in like cold hard type to the robot I'm
Speaker 1: just not proud of her, and how you could ever
Speaker 1: come back from that.
Speaker 3: I know. But then you think, I was thinking, you
Speaker 3: go to a psychologist, that it's bound by confidentiality, And
Speaker 3: the difference is that you can say to a psychologist,
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I've got the ick.
Speaker 4: Is it a haircut? Or is it the end of
Speaker 4: my marriage?
Speaker 3: You can say all those things, and a psychologist has
Speaker 3: the added benefit of being a human being who has
Speaker 3: your history and knows has has an emotional sense of
Speaker 3: what's going on for you and can maybe say.
Speaker 4: You can actually get.
Speaker 3: Past an ick or can talk you through these things
Speaker 3: and say that all everyone feels uncertain from time to time,
Speaker 3: Whereas it seems like and this has been a big
Speaker 3: criticism of chat j apt that it's very it really
Speaker 3: sides with you, it really reaffirms great idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah those cats sound awful. Yeah yeah, split ends yeuh yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it depends on how you view your own
Speaker 2: relationship with AI. Firstly, I do think everyone needs to
Speaker 2: invest in a journal. It's very money, very well spent.
Speaker 4: But what if so nobody he reads it?
Speaker 2: And that's the thing.
Speaker 1: So I think think of this situation equivalent is this,
Speaker 1: did she basically read his journal when she.
Speaker 2: Well, I actually don't know, because I think before AI,
Speaker 2: the situation would be like you would see this message
Speaker 2: like what you said whole he would message his friend
Speaker 2: about it, and you'd be really angry because now you
Speaker 2: brought this other person into our relationship, or he'd tell
Speaker 2: a therapist about it, and you might be a bit
Speaker 2: proud that he's actually trying to talk about this in
Speaker 2: a professional sense or he did it in his diary,
Speaker 2: and then everyone has mixed feelings about that, and I
Speaker 2: think we're all trying to while we're experiencing our own
Speaker 2: relationships with AI. Everyone has very different opinions on this
Speaker 2: specific story because I was also reading the comments, and
Speaker 2: everyone split some like I personally think she betrayed his
Speaker 2: trusty by reading it, and I was actually when because
Speaker 2: towards the end of her subset, she said she left
Speaker 2: him and then he came back apologizing and they got
Speaker 2: back together. And in my head, I thought he'd be
Speaker 2: equally as mad at her for reading it because someone
Speaker 2: read my chadchbt.
Speaker 4: Oh oh my god, they think I was.
Speaker 1: It depends, I reckon whether or not you get to
Speaker 1: be really indignant about your privacy being betrayed. Depends on
Speaker 1: the level of what they've found out. Do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, if somebody read your diary and
Speaker 1: you were talking about the affair you're having with their brother, right,
Speaker 1: this is not a story taken from my real life
Speaker 1: or my real life, But then you can't be the
Speaker 1: one who's on your high horse going But you read
Speaker 1: my diary when they're like, yeah, but you're sleeping with
Speaker 1: my brother, do you know what I mean? But if
Speaker 1: it's why can't I but well you can, my diary
Speaker 1: probably not going to win that argument, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Whereas if it's a lower level, like personally
Speaker 1: to your point, and he's just pouring out what he
Speaker 1: might pour out to a diary. But the thing is
Speaker 1: the diary isn't talking back to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he hasn't actually done anything wrong. And I
Speaker 2: think when people have these kind of conversations with AI,
Speaker 2: which a lot of people are now treating it as
Speaker 2: a diary without even meaning to, it always starts off
Speaker 2: with like a Google ball question. So his first and
Speaker 2: if your question was is three point five months too
Speaker 2: long to not be in love? And then I looked
Speaker 2: it up in Google and Google says it is normal
Speaker 2: to either be in love or to not be in love.
Speaker 2: And then if he googled that before AI, then he
Speaker 2: would have been like, Okay, that's fine. But because we
Speaker 2: have a chat GPT robot not only giving us an
Speaker 2: answer but also also wanting us to explore more questions
Speaker 2: with it, you just go into this endless spir I.
Speaker 3: Totally an American chat GPT almost facilitates rumination because sometimes
Speaker 3: I ask a quick question.
Speaker 1: Because it wants to keep you on. Yeah, it's murdus,
Speaker 1: and I like a social media platform is to keep
Speaker 1: you talking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my I looked at my summary summarison my
Speaker 3: chats because I thought I went quite personal with chat
Speaker 3: japer tape.
Speaker 4: Turns out I don't. It's just rogue. I looked up.
Speaker 3: I was looking up unexplained bruises causes, literary boys names.
Speaker 2: Not finding finding any dirt on rabbit bite care advice
Speaker 2: I did get in my rabbit id.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I have lots of questions freaking weird literary
Speaker 1: boys nay.
Speaker 4: I wanted a boy's name that sounded.
Speaker 1: Okay, not help. Also, when you get bitten by wrappit anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm getting.
Speaker 3: Rapped if I got if I got a an infection, am.
Speaker 1: I going to turn into a rabbit tupe Here it
Speaker 1: is giving a little snapshot of your life, no.
Speaker 3: Question, exactly of the state of my brain. And it
Speaker 3: really does keep you on there every time I ask
Speaker 3: a question, because it currently my chat ticker TA currently
Speaker 3: thinks that I've just had PREMI twins, but I'm also
Speaker 3: do with a baby, and.
Speaker 1: So it's very because it's a robot that seems fine robots,
Speaker 1: I definitely do that.
Speaker 3: I'm asking, like, what's normal for twenty five weeks and
Speaker 3: it's like you just had to and I'm like, it's true.
Speaker 4: But it does.
Speaker 3: It asks you questions to keep you on there, and
Speaker 3: there are things where I might just need a black
Speaker 3: and white answer, as black and white as any answer
Speaker 3: can possibly be, and it does kind of keep asking
Speaker 3: and asking, which makes you think about it more. But
Speaker 3: I was thinking, imagine if you were somebody with severe
Speaker 3: post natal depression and you have the darkest, darkest thoughts
Speaker 3: that you would never ever want anybody to know, And
Speaker 3: that's why you see a psychologist because there is confidentiality.
Speaker 3: But it is really scary to think that there's a
Speaker 3: record of that, and there's a record of thoughts that
Speaker 3: you come out about your baby.
Speaker 1: It's not private, it's not entirely private, and that's so true,
Speaker 1: and that's why there's lots of there's a lot of
Speaker 1: ethical concerns about like where when should chat GPT step
Speaker 1: in whatever that means and alert somebody. I want to
Speaker 1: know what your robot would think about you and what
Speaker 1: kind of thing are you treating your robot like a therapist? Oh?
Speaker 2: I remember I did like a bit of a I
Speaker 2: did one of those summary things. I'm like, based on
Speaker 2: everything you know about me, what can you tell me
Speaker 2: about myself? And I was like Emily Vernon loves to
Speaker 2: be held accountable for her action.
Speaker 4: What you're like, No, I don't.
Speaker 2: She sometimes struggles with dating, especially knowing what his message back.
Speaker 1: Yes, because we talked about this on a previous show.
Speaker 1: You get your robot to write your messages now, Okay,
Speaker 1: So do we think that at that Lindsay who wrote
Speaker 1: this excellent essay, should they have broken up based on
Speaker 1: his chat history and all we know about it? I
Speaker 1: think they should just knowing.
Speaker 2: That you wanted to click into that, I feel like
Speaker 2: you should have been like, I do think.
Speaker 3: That they're a marriage, that there would be happy marriages
Speaker 3: where people have thought worse things about each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's definitely true, and that you're on
Speaker 1: a roller coaster and often, you know, people always say
Speaker 1: that the secret to not getting divorced or breaking up
Speaker 1: is that neither of you wants to at the same
Speaker 1: time but same time five months in if you're googling
Speaker 1: all those doubts, like doubts are normal, but there has
Speaker 1: to be some good stuff. Was he good? Did she
Speaker 1: just not include the where he was googling? Is it
Speaker 1: usual to be so obsessed with your girl?
Speaker 3: So she kind of made that point that there wasn't
Speaker 3: a lot of flattery. Oh, I guess you don't need
Speaker 3: chut JPT.
Speaker 4: For the flattery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need to understand using all your tokens. Yeah, pesky.
Speaker 2: There is a new beauty trend and I don't even
Speaker 2: know what to call it, but they called it the
Speaker 2: almost ready look. And what you do is you smudge
Speaker 2: your lipstick. Sounds basic, it's actually quite hard. I tried it.
Speaker 2: So four or four twenty twenty six fashion show models
Speaker 2: were seen sporting a red lip. However, their lipstick looked
Speaker 2: very interesting because on their top lip, on one side,
Speaker 2: it was smudged up, and in the opposite direction, on
Speaker 2: their bottom lip, it was smudged down. I was calling
Speaker 2: it the clown cheek that way.
Speaker 4: So you're going to do.
Speaker 2: It right as if they go like here like up
Speaker 2: on your face, yep, and then on the other side
Speaker 2: you can go down right, am I doing it right
Speaker 2: and then it looks a bit like you've just been kissed.
Speaker 1: Tell the rob.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So basically, the team behind it said, we wanted a
Speaker 2: character and a narrative about someone who started their day
Speaker 2: ready but couldn't finish everything, which like, come.
Speaker 3: To my house, professional, professional makeup looks absolutely flawless.
Speaker 1: Exactly, I need to look at my.
Speaker 2: Are you fixing it?
Speaker 3: Holly's fixing hers to make it look neater, which I
Speaker 3: don't think is the point.
Speaker 2: I think it's like a bit. But I've noticed Hailey
Speaker 2: Beaber has been doing this. So what they do is
Speaker 2: they get like not as chaotic as like half up,
Speaker 2: half down, but they get a lip. I can't take
Speaker 2: you serious.
Speaker 1: This is why if you're watching her show on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: which you can now, you can see that I look
Speaker 1: very professional right now.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's French, which is I've been out
Speaker 3: all night. I'm still hot, because of course I am,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I had some drinks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like that's the vibe and like what you do?
Speaker 2: So and the thing is I have roseasia. So the
Speaker 2: more I rub it off, the redder it gets. So
Speaker 2: the more smudged it look.
Speaker 4: They didn't account for that.
Speaker 2: But what I've seen the actual influencer girls do is
Speaker 2: that they use a lip liner and then they gently
Speaker 2: smudge the lip liner.
Speaker 4: Like it's like blurred.
Speaker 2: It's like a blurred lip and that looks much much
Speaker 2: better compared to what we've just done to our faces
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Do you think? Right? Because when you saw when you
Speaker 1: see the images of this particular fashion show, and it's
Speaker 1: very exaggerated, So the cool girls are just doing it
Speaker 1: subtly bleeding their lipstick out, so it's got this rough
Speaker 1: edge that's apparently very cool. But do you think that
Speaker 1: the whole like everybody's wearing their lipstick like this now
Speaker 1: and it's just like like all over the face like this.
Speaker 1: It's just a Tenson economy, right, It's just like we
Speaker 1: need someone to write about the fashion show. They're not
Speaker 1: really expecting me to go out like that, are they?
Speaker 1: Well this or is this not really really it to
Speaker 1: me anyway because I'm not a model?
Speaker 3: Well, I think this is the problem with all beauty
Speaker 3: trends is that they're like, look, she has lipstick go
Speaker 3: over her face and still looks perfect.
Speaker 4: And it's like that's because she is the most ridiculously
Speaker 4: beautiful human I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, imperfection only works when the rest
Speaker 3: of you is perfect. It doesn't work on me where
Speaker 3: it's like your lipstick's much, so's your scar, so is
Speaker 3: your eyebrowp here?
Speaker 2: And your hair's greasy and what are you wearing.
Speaker 1: One of my most horrifying memories is that when I
Speaker 1: was young and I was at UNI. Well it wasn't
Speaker 1: unique because I didn't go to UNI famously, but it
Speaker 1: was college let's call it that. There was a Halloween
Speaker 1: party and only me and my friends went and costume.
Speaker 1: What did you wear? I had painted my face white
Speaker 1: and I had like a red lip that them was
Speaker 1: like all bleeding down here like this, And so we
Speaker 1: got there and everybody was like I was just like
Speaker 1: I'm being cool, Like my makeup just smudge. Pity my
Speaker 1: poor friend, like this is the party. And my other
Speaker 1: friend had just gone as a ghost, but underneath she
Speaker 1: was run a really hot black cat suit because she
Speaker 1: was that girl. Yeah, she ripped it off through the
Speaker 1: sheet off and she was really hot. And me with
Speaker 1: my red lit steel all the way down here and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm.
Speaker 4: Robert Smith from the Cure. Everyone's like, why do you
Speaker 4: look like? Everyone's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You're like, it's Filloween.
Speaker 4: They're like, well, why are you scary?
Speaker 3: After the break? Our best recommendations to set you up
Speaker 3: for the weekend.
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun. This is my
Speaker 1: best recommendation.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to help you with your
Speaker 3: weekend having some downtime with our very best recommendations. And honestly,
Speaker 3: you're winning the recommendation game at the moment, and I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm not into I'm so behind on following M's recommendations
Speaker 3: because I just.
Speaker 1: Do nothing else.
Speaker 4: It stresses me. Yeah, how long my list is? Go
Speaker 4: and yours.
Speaker 2: I took myself to the cinema to watch a new
Speaker 2: movie called The Drama Dying to hear the best thirty
Speaker 2: dollars I've spent I reckon thirty dollars?
Speaker 1: Can you believe that?
Speaker 2: Also for a second, can we talk about cinema etiquette?
Speaker 1: We definitely can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, couple behind me, couple next to me, yappers.
Speaker 2: The guy behind me from the get go like he
Speaker 2: sits down and he's like, oh, I thought these were
Speaker 2: going to be reclining seats. He's like, look how small
Speaker 2: they are, and they were really nice seats, and then
Speaker 2: the whole movie he's like, when do you reckon?
Speaker 1: We can leave?
Speaker 2: These seats are hurting.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that guy. And then the lady lady next.
Speaker 2: To me, we were sandwiched between her husband. She just
Speaker 2: had all these snacks that she then dropped for the
Speaker 2: movie to spend like at least five minutes picking up
Speaker 2: all the snacks and then going, oh, for fu sake,
Speaker 2: tropping them again. And then she's like, Ron, what's going on.
Speaker 2: I don't understand what's happening. And I'm like, this, we're
Speaker 2: in a shared space.
Speaker 1: People don't understand how we all paid, like we all
Speaker 1: paid thirty dollars to be here dollars.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because people are so used to watching stuff
Speaker 3: at home that if they just don't understand how to
Speaker 3: be in public.
Speaker 1: And they're like, can we pause? I need the load
Speaker 1: and tell everyone what the drama is because I'm dying
Speaker 1: to see it.
Speaker 2: But so it's such a good movie. It's a really
Speaker 2: really good movie. It stars Zendaya and Robert Patterson.
Speaker 1: And no one really needs to know anything.
Speaker 2: So hot they play a young couple who are about
Speaker 2: to have their wedding. Her name is Emma, his name
Speaker 2: is Charlie. And if you've watched the trailer of this
Speaker 2: movie like me, you must be very excited to see
Speaker 2: it because there's a huge, huge spoiler that we all
Speaker 2: kind of knew about in the trailer, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to watch them. That's why I went to see It's
Speaker 2: so hard.
Speaker 1: Did tease it in the trailer because I don't think
Speaker 1: I have seen the tailor. You're obviously going to tell
Speaker 1: us the spoiler, but how do they like?
Speaker 2: So in the trailer, what happens is that Emma and Charlie.
Speaker 2: You see them being like this very happy, good looking,
Speaker 2: fun rich couple. They do one of those dinner tastings
Speaker 2: before the wedding and they invite their best man and
Speaker 2: maid of honor, who are also a married couple. And
Speaker 2: then that couple said, before our wedding, we told each
Speaker 2: other the worst thing we've ever done.
Speaker 1: Oh no, And they all go around no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: save that shit for chat GPT.
Speaker 2: They all go around the table saying the worst thing
Speaker 2: they've ever done, and then Zendaya's character Emma says the
Speaker 2: worst thing she's ever done, which we don't know what
Speaker 2: it is, and then so it jumps cut you don't
Speaker 2: know what it is, and then the trailer just shows
Speaker 2: all of their reactions and they're all like, what the
Speaker 2: fuck are you actually serious? And then the trailer and
Speaker 2: the movie just goes into this big spiral of Robert
Speaker 2: Patterson's character Charlie just completely spiraling over what she said
Speaker 2: and whether or not you can and it just like
Speaker 2: has this big question whether you can get past it,
Speaker 2: where you can get past it, because it's kind of like,
Speaker 2: have you just found out that the person you're marrying
Speaker 2: isn't who you thought that who you thought they were?
Speaker 1: Kind of and I love that the thing.
Speaker 2: She did is not very black and white. It's a
Speaker 2: very gray area thing. So you come out of the
Speaker 2: cinema talking to the person next to you going would
Speaker 2: you have stayed? Would you have left? And it's just
Speaker 2: it's just very very interesting.
Speaker 1: Is it kind of ARTI or is it kind of
Speaker 1: rom comedy? Like what's the vibe?
Speaker 2: It's a bit Artie in the sense where it does
Speaker 2: that thing where their imaginations play a bit wild. So
Speaker 2: something that is happening in the movie isn't actually happening
Speaker 2: in real life, so it does a lot of jump cuts.
Speaker 2: You don't really know what's real what's not. But it's
Speaker 2: very linear, it's very easy to follow. It's also a
Speaker 2: dark comedy, so there are some really funny, like laugh
Speaker 2: out loud moments scenes, but it was very cleverly done.
Speaker 2: The only thing I will say is that it's definitely
Speaker 2: his movie robility. He's amazing in it, which was confusing
Speaker 2: to me because you have Sandea, yeah, but she like
Speaker 2: I don't think they really used her to a full
Speaker 2: potential in this movie, and I think I wanted I
Speaker 2: would have liked some more scenes with her in it,
Speaker 2: but it's definitely about him spiraling over what she did.
Speaker 1: Do we like Robert Pattinson in general?
Speaker 4: I think we do.
Speaker 1: I really do.
Speaker 2: I think this movie cemented it for me, and I think.
Speaker 4: He takes a piss out of himself, which we really enjoy.
Speaker 1: He has managed to pull himself back from like sometimes
Speaker 1: those kind of early movie roles can define you the
Speaker 1: whole Twilight Year.
Speaker 3: But he's like, Twilight was terrible, and it's like, on
Speaker 3: the one hand, it was a long time ago.
Speaker 4: That's the only way you have your career. On the
Speaker 4: other hand, it's true, and.
Speaker 2: Then I think he's around it again. He likes the Twilight.
Speaker 2: He brings it up quite a lot in interviews. But
Speaker 2: the drama out in cinema is everyone watch it, like,
Speaker 2: don't look up spoilers, do not do it.
Speaker 3: One quick question for you me, I only have time
Speaker 3: to see one movie at the movies.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do this one.
Speaker 4: This one.
Speaker 3: Hail Mary, Hail Mary, Like.
Speaker 4: This is Taylor to me.
Speaker 2: The only thing I think for you the drama. And
Speaker 2: it's mainly because like it will be spoiled, because everyone
Speaker 2: wants to write these big essays about.
Speaker 1: It already the internet's already yea, but I still want
Speaker 1: to see it.
Speaker 2: Oh it's just so so good.
Speaker 3: Okay, I want to see it. My recommendation is very
Speaker 3: different and very duk. So it's called the birth Keepers
Speaker 3: podcast and it's by the Guardian Investigates. So, as I've
Speaker 3: said before on this show, I love a mini series.
Speaker 1: They've been very popular in podcast recommendations. I know everybody
Speaker 1: got behind Hometown Boys. Yes a minute, No it wasn't.
Speaker 3: But sometimes you just need a mini series that you
Speaker 3: know it's it's going to end, so that you can
Speaker 3: you can get into it but not have to commit
Speaker 3: to another weekly show.
Speaker 1: Because you're satisfying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you know you've already got this weekly show.
Speaker 3: So it's a podcast that's it's actually called Off Duty
Speaker 3: by the Guardian investigates. But this is season five and
Speaker 3: it's a six part mini series and it's about the
Speaker 3: Free Birth Society, which was a Facebook it still is
Speaker 3: a Facebook group of podcasts, and it expanded into coaching
Speaker 3: and courses and it promoted wild pregnancy and birth, which
Speaker 3: is essentially no medical involvement whatsoever, no blood tests, no scans,
Speaker 3: no hospitals, and really like demonization of healthcare professionals. And
Speaker 3: with their courses, the Free Birth Society trained what they
Speaker 3: called like traditional midwives, which they then couldn't use that
Speaker 3: term because it's protected.
Speaker 4: Or birth keepers.
Speaker 3: And the idea was this is what people should be doing,
Speaker 3: which is just encouraging and mantras and all of that
Speaker 3: and no medical.
Speaker 1: Trith This already sounds fascinating.
Speaker 3: Yes, So two journalists worked on a year long investigation
Speaker 3: into the impacts of this movement on mothers and babies
Speaker 3: and communities, and it just goes to show the dangers
Speaker 3: of misinformation and how when you are marinating. There are
Speaker 3: so many women who say, I listened to every episode
Speaker 3: of the podcasts that have been going for years and
Speaker 3: years and years.
Speaker 4: They listen to every episode they read.
Speaker 3: The two women who sort of run it read all
Speaker 3: their work just listen to so many birth stories that
Speaker 3: when it comes to theirs and there might be an emergency,
Speaker 3: they're just so almost brainwashed about what to do. And
Speaker 3: the other thing I found fascinating about it is that
Speaker 3: it goes into the dissemination of this information and how
Speaker 3: it's a little bit infiltrated different areas and you see
Speaker 3: content online and you might read things, and it is
Speaker 3: this free birth vibe. And obviously homebirth completely like there's
Speaker 3: all sorts of research about homebirth and who it's appropriate for,
Speaker 3: and it's appropriate for many, many, many women. And the
Speaker 3: difference between homebirth and free birth is that it's when
Speaker 3: somebody chooses to give birth without the assistance of any
Speaker 3: healthcare professionals. And in many cases, for this society and
Speaker 3: for this this the ethos around this was you avoid
Speaker 3: hospital medical intervention at all costs. But I realized in
Speaker 3: listening to this that I had internalized some of the
Speaker 3: free birth messaging. There are all these like mantras that
Speaker 3: you'll see about your body knows what it's doing, and trust,
Speaker 3: like trust that your uterus will put your baby in
Speaker 3: the right position. All this stuff where once you've been
Speaker 3: through it, you go hold on. That's not medically true
Speaker 3: and there are medical emergencies that are not your fault.
Speaker 3: So I was obsessed with this podcast. Trigger warning it's
Speaker 3: probably not appropriate to listen to if you're pregnant for
Speaker 3: some reason.
Speaker 4: I'm a weird.
Speaker 1: That's very that's a very classic yeah to do. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I was trying to tell my partner about it and
Speaker 3: he's like, can you stop? This is really distressing, but
Speaker 3: highly recommend questions investigation.
Speaker 1: So it's from the Guardian, But if you're going to
Speaker 1: find it, you're going to find it an off duty.
Speaker 3: It's called Off Duty Season five. It's called The birth Keepers.
Speaker 1: I've got a book. I think I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: finally reading again because I was deep in writing for
Speaker 1: most of the summer and for whatever reason, sometimes I
Speaker 1: just can't read when i'm writing. Even though that is
Speaker 1: not good advice. We all know. Every writer knows you've
Speaker 1: got to read and read and read it makes you
Speaker 1: writing better. But sometimes know.
Speaker 4: All the fancy writers say that they don't.
Speaker 1: Oh really, but I felt like it stopped me from
Speaker 1: reading a lot of books I wanted to read. And
Speaker 1: now I'm getting through them and I'm feeling it's great.
Speaker 1: Who knew reading great? Love it books? Fabulous? Anyway, just anyway,
Speaker 1: Claire and I went to Newcastle Writers Festival the other
Speaker 1: weekend and I was on a panel with a writer
Speaker 1: called Kate Milton Hall, who I'd known about for a
Speaker 1: long time but I had never met. And she had
Speaker 1: written a book called The Hiding Place that came out
Speaker 1: a little bit after my book He would Never last year,
Speaker 1: so I think it probably came out in the spring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's say that. And I had avoided reading it because
Speaker 1: it sounded really really like my book He would Never,
Speaker 1: and she had avoided reading He would Never because it
Speaker 1: sounded a lot like The Hiding Place and spoiler alert.
Speaker 1: Writers are insecure weirdos, so we're all like, I can't
Speaker 1: possibly read that book. It might be better than my
Speaker 1: book whatever, blah blah blah. Anyway, then of course we
Speaker 1: both ready to the books to do the panel. The
Speaker 1: Hiding Place is so good. It is so good. And
Speaker 1: if you did read my book and you liked it,
Speaker 1: you're going to love this. And if you haven't read
Speaker 1: my book, then you should read it. But you should
Speaker 1: also obviously go may the book. But it's the reason
Speaker 1: why we thought they were similar is it's the premise
Speaker 1: is similar in that The Hiding Place follows this group
Speaker 1: of friends and family, actually some of them are related
Speaker 1: from Melbourne, who go camping together every year. So that's
Speaker 1: also the premise for He Would Never is that this family,
Speaker 1: this group of friends go camping together every year. But
Speaker 1: then you know, it veers off in different directions. But
Speaker 1: the thing that is so great about this book, so
Speaker 1: this group of friends, what they do is they get
Speaker 1: together and they buy a disused mining town, which is
Speaker 1: something that you see like literally advertised on the quite
Speaker 1: often is there'll be some tiny country town that isn't
Speaker 1: really a town at all, but maybe a pub and
Speaker 1: a few old cottages that now is land for sale.
Speaker 2: And this sounds like a start of a horrmone exactly.
Speaker 1: And so in The Hiding Place, this group of friends
Speaker 1: and family and they've got lots of little kids and
Speaker 1: you know, various relationships. Scenario is going on here, and
Speaker 1: they decide to get together and buy this town it's
Speaker 1: really just a pub and whatever and lots of beautiful
Speaker 1: land and turn it into their idyllic, you know, off grid,
Speaker 1: free range parenting ideal, Right, And each one of the
Speaker 1: group has a slightly different idea. One of them wants
Speaker 1: to use it to plant a crop of maybe quite
Speaker 1: hallucinogenic plants to make a lot of money, one of
Speaker 1: them thinking maybe it can be an eco retreat. One
Speaker 1: of them wants to rewild it entirely. They're all. The
Speaker 1: thing that's so delicious about this book is it really
Speaker 1: skews that kind of Australian middle class. Like there are
Speaker 1: other someone brings glow sticks and someone else's like, you
Speaker 1: can't because they're not biodegradable, and someone like the other
Speaker 1: blueberries organic and they're like, we have to pay respects
Speaker 1: to the traditional owners.
Speaker 2: But you know, and they're like, maybe we shouldn't have
Speaker 2: gone into business to go exactly.
Speaker 1: And then on the first night something calamitous happens. Right,
Speaker 1: This is the setup for the book. It is such
Speaker 1: a good book and she has written it. It's so fast.
Speaker 1: It's one of those books that you can tear through.
Speaker 1: It's set up very much like a crime novel told
Speaker 1: from different perspectives. It is just great. I just absolutely
Speaker 1: loved it. Disappeared into it. It's called that and it
Speaker 1: has this really weird It's beautifully written. She's a very
Speaker 1: good writer, but it has this really weird, sort of
Speaker 1: sinister lines through it, with this weird animal that's stalking
Speaker 1: them and stuff. It's great anyway. It's called The Hiding Place.
Speaker 1: It's by Kate Milton Hall and I thoroughly recommend it.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to throw in an extra reco I
Speaker 1: won't talk for long. It's really quick. Regular outlouders will
Speaker 1: remember that. Last year Jesse, I think recommended Last One
Speaker 1: Laughing UK.
Speaker 4: She's watching it again now.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. So The Last One Laughing is this comedy
Speaker 1: setup show where they put all the comedians in a
Speaker 1: room and they have to try not to laugh. The
Speaker 1: new season of the UK one is out now. It
Speaker 1: is so funny and I'm watching it with the kids
Speaker 1: and there is nothing. Even though a lot of them
Speaker 1: are quite rude, like the Es. My kids are teenagers,
Speaker 1: so it's fine. We love watching it as a family
Speaker 1: and we are all just dying laughing and you know
Speaker 1: when it's just the pleasure of laughing till his stomach hurts,
Speaker 1: and it's got Bob Bordemerone who won it last time.
Speaker 1: He's come back to defend his title, and then some
Speaker 1: other fantastic comedians. I love Dian Morgan, She's kunk, you
Speaker 1: know that. Un yes, yes, yes, anyway, So if you
Speaker 1: need something to laugh at, find Last One Laughing UK
Speaker 1: Season two Absolute to die for short episodes. I'll shut
Speaker 1: up so good. That is all we have time for
Speaker 1: on this Friday show and this short week. A massive
Speaker 1: thank you to our team. Just a quick reminder that
Speaker 1: the newsletter, the Mom and Mia out Loud Newsletter, goes
Speaker 1: out every Saturday morning without fail, but also through the
Speaker 1: week just sometimes just dropped little treats, little essays, little updates,
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So sign up if you haven't
Speaker 1: the links in the show now and it's free. It's free,
Speaker 1: and we're also all the hosts are doing this questionnaire
Speaker 1: at the minute. There's a big rundown of lots of us,
Speaker 1: a lot of questions, favorite things, recommendations, So go sign
Speaker 1: up and recommendations will be coming out of your ears.
Speaker 3: And it's Holly's beautiful writing, so straight to you're in box.
Speaker 4: Very convenient.
Speaker 1: Bye, Mamma. Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 1: on which we've recorded this podcast.