Speaker 1: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast where, well, we
Speaker 1: don't talk about your everyday parenting stuff, we kind of
Speaker 1: talk about parenting news and culture and trends and take
Speaker 1: a good hard look at it. I'm Monique Bowley.
Speaker 2: I'm Amelia Last, and I'm Stacy Hicks.
Speaker 1: Coming up on today's show.
Speaker 2: An influencer wore a white dress to a boxing match
Speaker 2: ten days postpartum and everyone lost their mind. But not
Speaker 2: for the reason. You might think you love that story,
Speaker 2: don't you.
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 2: I do. It's my Roman Empire.
Speaker 3: Megan and Harry's daughter had a birthday recently and they
Speaker 3: marked it in the most millennial way possible a photo
Speaker 3: of the back of her head. Can we once and
Speaker 3: for all talk about this very weird generational habit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and our school's absorbing hr workplace culture, because it
Speaker 1: feels like nowadays every playground incident requires an email trail
Speaker 1: and a call to management.
Speaker 3: At first, Japan's national soccer team was raised right. The
Speaker 3: Samurai Blue were in Texas for their first World Cup
Speaker 3: game and they drew with the Netherlands. It was two two,
Speaker 3: but they won everyone's hearts with what they did after
Speaker 3: the game, which was leave their locker room spotless. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you saw these photos. They were everywhere
Speaker 3: all over the internet, verified by the BBC. They had
Speaker 3: stacked the chairs neatly, they had collected the rubbish, they
Speaker 3: had folded their bibs and their towels neatly in the
Speaker 3: center of the room.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, if their parents aren't proud enough already, and the
Speaker 3: fact that they are playing in the World Cup, can
Speaker 3: you imagine the pride you would feel as a parent
Speaker 3: looking at those photos?
Speaker 1: National pride.
Speaker 3: Japanese sports fans. Look, they're non for tidying up stadiums
Speaker 3: after sporting games. This is Yeah, there's actually a Japanese
Speaker 3: principle which is return it the way you found it,
Speaker 3: except I'm sure there's a much more beautiful word for
Speaker 3: that in Japanese, and that concept is taught in primary school.
Speaker 3: I learned this when I lived in Japan, that there
Speaker 3: are no cleaners in primary schools in Japan because at
Speaker 3: the end of every day, the children clean the classroom
Speaker 3: and the school facilities themselves.
Speaker 1: I love that. As a principal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great because then you're not raising little slobs
Speaker 2: who are just leaving everything behind.
Speaker 3: Mom's you have been an elite athlete. Just how unusual
Speaker 3: is this behavior from the Japanese soccer team.
Speaker 1: Very unfortunately. Locker rooms are a pit. I would describe
Speaker 1: them as just angle tape and dirty towels, and they
Speaker 1: are not left in the best conditions, so.
Speaker 3: That makes it all the more extraordinary. Yeah, Gambaro, which
Speaker 3: means you go Japan.
Speaker 2: Nice, awesome. Now I want to talk about someone who's
Speaker 2: got nine million followers on Instagram, and I know that
Speaker 2: neither of you are going to have heard of her.
Speaker 2: Her name is Molly may Haig. So she was on
Speaker 2: Love Island UK. She met her partner on that who
Speaker 2: she's now engaged to and has two children. She made
Speaker 2: bank off this show, Like I'm talking two million YouTube
Speaker 2: subscribers Love Island off Love Island, she was one of them,
Speaker 2: very likable, very likable, very beautiful, classically beautiful. She became
Speaker 2: the youngest creative director of Pretty Little Thing at twenty two.
Speaker 2: Like Pretty Little Thing like a big fast fashion brand
Speaker 2: in the UK, so huge, huge deals that she got
Speaker 2: out of this. And Tommy is a boxer, so she
Speaker 2: went to his match ten days postpartum after the birth
Speaker 2: of their second son, Midas which is just a cool name.
Speaker 2: Their daughter's name is Bambi. Yes, all of this is
Speaker 2: coming from my head. Sadly, I know a lot about
Speaker 2: these people. And people lost their minds because she walked
Speaker 2: into that arena in a skin tight white dress.
Speaker 1: No, looked with high.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, with high heels. Beautiful. But that wasn't the most
Speaker 2: common commentary. Most of what the comments were saying was, Oh,
Speaker 2: she doesn't look very happy to be there. Oh, she
Speaker 2: could smile more. I'm like, would you That woman is
Speaker 2: bleeding and leaking, leaking like she would not be in
Speaker 2: a good way, and yet she showed up for her partner.
Speaker 3: We're still in the messhonderpants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he hasn't slept.
Speaker 2: No exactly, and she admitted that after And I don't
Speaker 2: don't like the had to give the quantifier afterwards, but
Speaker 2: she must have felt the need after she saw all
Speaker 2: of the commentary around her, and she put out something saying,
Speaker 2: I pulled it together for a couple of hours, but
Speaker 2: this is what I actually looked like ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the time, like a human cow. She posted a photo
Speaker 2: of her meeting and she said, I'd like to give
Speaker 2: a shout out to Spanks and a giant pad that
Speaker 2: got me through that night, and a link to the dress,
Speaker 2: which was from her own label, So very smart.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I see through it, Molly may Hay.
Speaker 1: We're in an attention economy, and this is what you
Speaker 1: I know, this is what you're doing to get clicks
Speaker 1: and to get engagement, and then you yeah, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel bad that she's trapped in this
Speaker 1: attention economy and has to do this, yeah clicks in
Speaker 1: the life.
Speaker 2: I meanry it worked. I am sure that dress would
Speaker 2: have sold off the shelves.
Speaker 1: That was her reason for going, supporting her husband.
Speaker 2: Supporting her husband, so he was boxing in the match,
Speaker 2: so she was there to watch him, and she said
Speaker 2: she only went for a few hours and then went home. Now,
Speaker 2: the fact that she even has to say that, we
Speaker 2: would never do it if it was the other way around,
Speaker 2: we all know that. But yeah, I just thought it
Speaker 2: was I thought it was clever though, because she got
Speaker 2: adoration for looking so gorgeous ten days postpartum, But she
Speaker 2: also was very relatable afterwards by being like, look, this
Speaker 2: is what it normally looks like. That wasn't what I
Speaker 2: normally look like. She managed to do that balance. I
Speaker 2: thought it was a very smart, very smart move.
Speaker 3: Megan and Harry's daughter Lily Bett, had a birthday last week.
Speaker 3: She turned five, and her parents did what they do
Speaker 3: every time she or her brother Archie have a birthday
Speaker 3: or it's Easter or some kind of special holiday event.
Speaker 3: They post a.
Speaker 1: Photo or they have a jam to sell.
Speaker 3: Where the kid's face is artfully obscured. Yeah, sometimes you
Speaker 3: see a little bit of a nose, sometimes you see
Speaker 3: a lot of hair, or it's a movement shot. We're
Speaker 3: all familiar with that. Because guess what, it's not just
Speaker 3: Megan and Harry doing that. Everyone is doing that now,
Speaker 3: putting these photos of their children up on the Internet
Speaker 3: where you cannot see the faces. And I get why
Speaker 3: people do it because or I get why they're obscuring
Speaker 3: the faces because the risks now are known about surveillance
Speaker 3: and AI and scammers, and you don't want to put
Speaker 3: your child's face out there to be preyed on in
Speaker 3: that way. But it does beg the question of why
Speaker 3: not just not why not not post your child? Yeah,
Speaker 3: why are you trying to come up with this unique
Speaker 3: composition where I can just see a part a tantalizing
Speaker 3: glimpse of their face. Stacy, you're looking guilty because you
Speaker 3: do this and.
Speaker 2: I do this.
Speaker 3: My uncharitable interpretation is that people feel the need to
Speaker 3: perform their parenting. Yeah, and that's why they keep doing it.
Speaker 1: Before we go down that path, can we just just
Speaker 1: for funsies, can we compare it to what the Prince
Speaker 1: and Princess of Wales did. So each of their kids
Speaker 1: at five had an official portrait that was then released
Speaker 1: via Kensington Palace, and it feels very public duty. Here
Speaker 1: is our child front and center, here's their face. I
Speaker 1: guess it's kind of this public duty, it's institutional, kind
Speaker 1: of I no need for them to do it. So
Speaker 1: in contrast, the Megan and Harry stuff feels kind of pointed.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, I mean, and they get a lot
Speaker 3: of criticism for it, which, let's face it, they get
Speaker 3: a lot of criticism for everything they do, and I'm
Speaker 3: not inclined to take all of it seriously, but one
Speaker 3: criticism is, if you really did want your children to
Speaker 3: remain out of the public eye, stop kind of providing
Speaker 3: these little clues or tidbits for people, because it just
Speaker 3: heightens the public's curiosity.
Speaker 1: It actually does, because the scarcity mentality fires up there
Speaker 1: and we go, I want to see the face if
Speaker 1: I would pay any amount of money to.
Speaker 3: Because it's almost like an unsolved mystery at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even now you do see ai versions of
Speaker 2: what their children look like up. Yes, so people will
Speaker 2: use those little glimpses and make portraits that gets circulated
Speaker 2: on Facebook or wherever. It's weird because there is even
Speaker 2: with that, even with that measure of safety, they're still
Speaker 2: using that then, So you're right, it totally is making
Speaker 2: it worse.
Speaker 3: And I feel that way about all the celebrities who
Speaker 3: do this. Yeah, there's plenty of homegrown celebrities here in
Speaker 3: Australia who do exactly this too. It's not just people
Speaker 3: who are like seventh in line for the throne who
Speaker 3: are doing this. And it does make me more curious
Speaker 3: about something that I had never thought about before seeing
Speaker 3: that photo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you brought this up and I said
Speaker 2: to you, I was like, I do I do this?
Speaker 2: And I don't know why I do this? And I
Speaker 2: had to really think about it because I'm not famous obviously,
Speaker 2: I do have a public profile for work, so my
Speaker 2: Instagram is open for anyone to follow me. And I
Speaker 2: think it's that your natural instinct is to want to
Speaker 2: show every part of your life with your kid, because
Speaker 2: of course you think they're the cutest thing ever. But
Speaker 2: it feels like at this very moment, we're in that
Speaker 2: messy middle of well, I'm seeing people withdrawing their kids
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing less and less of that, and I'm
Speaker 2: seeing celebrities hiding faces. So should I be doing that?
Speaker 2: Is this something where we don't know what the consequence
Speaker 2: will be in ten twenty years time and what our
Speaker 2: children will say about what we did. So that's where
Speaker 2: I'm kind of sitting, is in this weird middle grammarre.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, well, that person's doing it, so do
Speaker 2: I need to do it? When you interrogate it like
Speaker 2: showing it's weird, half their face is weird. It is weird,
Speaker 2: but I think it's wanting to show I am with them,
Speaker 2: I am mothering, Like here's this fun thing that we did,
Speaker 2: but I just can't show you the full picture.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's weird at all. But I think
Speaker 1: I'm going to challenge something that you said, Amelia before.
Speaker 1: We said everyone is doing this, and I don't think
Speaker 1: it's really hit. I think it's still early adopters that
Speaker 1: are doing it, and I think it is what you
Speaker 1: were saying, it's kind of a coded parenting flex. It says, yes,
Speaker 1: I am educated, I'm woke, I understand implications of my
Speaker 1: child's privacy. Yes, I don't dress my child in poor
Speaker 1: patrol t shirts. Everything's artfully and tastefully.
Speaker 3: Don't know what would be even more of a parenting flex,
Speaker 3: not feeling the need to show me that you, a celebrity,
Speaker 3: are spending time with your children.
Speaker 1: But they still need to show the work right, Like
Speaker 1: for Megan and Harry, their brand is Harry does a
Speaker 1: lot of work advocating for men's and dad's mental health.
Speaker 1: Meghan has this brand American Riviera Orchard, which doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to have produced anything, but it seems quite wholesome.
Speaker 3: Transition to as ever.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I'm way behind on laws rebrand, but they
Speaker 1: still need to be to brand themselves as wholesome, and
Speaker 1: I think children are part of that brand. But it
Speaker 1: is so they want the cachet that a child has
Speaker 1: and being cash.
Speaker 3: What you're saying is they also want the cash in
Speaker 3: addition to the cachet. The child is a marketing technique.
Speaker 1: Yeah, completely completely, but they want to show the parenting
Speaker 1: but not the face.
Speaker 3: But then, okay, I get that. With the celebrities, it
Speaker 3: makes me a little bit cynical because it's like, could
Speaker 3: you not build a brand that doesn't depend on your children,
Speaker 3: who may or may not in years to come want
Speaker 3: to be part of as Ever's jam empire. Setting that aside,
Speaker 3: I'm more interested in why civilians, non celebrities are starting
Speaker 3: to do this, And I guess part of it is,
Speaker 3: as you say, Stacy, they're seeing celebrities do it, so
Speaker 3: they're kind of assuming that they should do the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but if you're a civilian, you don't need to make
Speaker 3: money of your children, so why bother posting.
Speaker 2: I still think that social media is your highlight reel.
Speaker 2: It is your this is a representation of my life.
Speaker 2: This is a scrap book of my life. Really, in
Speaker 2: terms of I would scroll back on this one day
Speaker 2: and look at what's there. And if there's the absence
Speaker 2: of your children when there's such a big part of
Speaker 2: your life, that also feels weird to like purposely delete
Speaker 2: them entirely from that presence. Also a bit strange.
Speaker 1: I think it's privacy, the panic around you see, and
Speaker 1: I think it's the backlash to sharenting. So we've seen
Speaker 1: in the last five years or so, all these children
Speaker 1: that were children of influencers have now come out. They're
Speaker 1: suing their parents. They're saying, I had no rights here,
Speaker 1: You've ruined my life. How dare you? And I think
Speaker 1: that we know more now about everything you put on
Speaker 1: the Internet lives there forever. It can be scraped and
Speaker 1: saved and shared and turned into a weird AI things.
Speaker 1: And I just think parents have started thinking, is it
Speaker 1: really responsible of me to upload my kid's face to
Speaker 1: the internet forever?
Speaker 3: Okay, I get that, And you know, I'm sorry to
Speaker 3: keep like pushing you on at stage.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3: I genuinely want to understand why you're doing it me too,
Speaker 3: because why wouldn't you. Stacy just shared those parenting moments
Speaker 3: in say the close Friends facility within Instagram.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is what I do with the stace. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is what I do a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: But I think, as you said once, it is that
Speaker 2: fear based thing of Oh but even if it's like
Speaker 2: in the ether, does that matter? Is that also going
Speaker 2: to get scrape. So I'm also thinking, like, I've just
Speaker 2: got to make sure that this is something that in
Speaker 2: twenty years time is a good reflection of her and
Speaker 2: not something that she would be embarrassed so that i'd share.
Speaker 3: Are you even sharing those face obscool pictures with like
Speaker 3: your close friends?
Speaker 2: No, no, I show them, but I would never show
Speaker 2: something where she was upset or not, you know, in
Speaker 2: a good position. But you're saying it might not have
Speaker 2: gone as mainstream. I had a look because I was
Speaker 2: interested in what like photographers family photographers are seeing because
Speaker 2: they're obviously capturing families and it's kind of like if
Speaker 2: a tree fell in the woods and no one heard it.
Speaker 2: You know, you're getting these photos done, probably you're intending
Speaker 2: to share them. And a lot of them now are
Speaker 2: saying that they've changed their style so that they're taking
Speaker 2: more candid photos where children's faces aren't shown, because those
Speaker 2: are the photos that the families will share on their
Speaker 2: social media for their.
Speaker 1: Social media package, where the children's face do it.
Speaker 2: It is a thing, And there's also it's changing the
Speaker 2: way they market their business because they can't use the
Speaker 2: photos of your children on their social media, so they're
Speaker 2: having to take ones that artfully show your children without
Speaker 2: showing your children, So you'll give permission for them to
Speaker 2: be shared for them to show what they can do.
Speaker 3: I actually wonder what that means for the generation that
Speaker 3: is growing up now, how that changes their attitude to
Speaker 3: their own face, capturing their face, because they will have
Speaker 3: grown up having these photos taken of them with their
Speaker 3: hair in front of their eyes or from their back. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and maybe they'll internalize that and that's how they'll start
Speaker 3: just taking their own candidates.
Speaker 1: Maybe so interesting, But don't pick on Stacy. I don't
Speaker 1: show my kids either, And in fact, I was the
Speaker 1: only one at the school that ticked, no, do not
Speaker 1: take photos of my child and put them on Facebook.
Speaker 3: Pure No, I'm not picking on her, No, I just
Speaker 3: wanted to step back and like remind us all that
Speaker 3: this is like a new you know. I think one
Speaker 3: thing that we try and do on this show is
Speaker 3: kind of like step back and say, this is a trend,
Speaker 3: is it's happening and why? And I want to remind
Speaker 3: everyone that five years ago we weren't doing this. Nice
Speaker 3: is a new thing and it's on every form now.
Speaker 3: Don't you feel like if you sign up for swimming lessons,
Speaker 3: if you sign up for soccer, it's an optional thing.
Speaker 3: Do you give permission or do you not? And I
Speaker 3: don't think that would have been there five ten years ago.
Speaker 3: So it is very much a new thing that's coming around,
Speaker 3: and we're probably going to continue interrogating it every day, month,
Speaker 3: year as we go on and as they grow.
Speaker 1: I've been on the celebrity beat, guys, you'll be pleased
Speaker 1: to know. And I saw something this week from Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Now he has eight children. I had so many I
Speaker 1: did not realize. And yes, seven of them are in
Speaker 1: the primary school years. He had his last child at
Speaker 1: sixty four years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are little. And I have watched which won't
Speaker 2: surprise you, in particular and merely. I have watched the
Speaker 2: doco I have watched about their life. They did a
Speaker 2: reality show about them and all their children.
Speaker 3: It's because I'm low key obsessed with Hilario of Baldwin,
Speaker 3: who people may remember got in trouble because she kind
Speaker 3: of walks around with a fake Spanish accent.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't think you can call her Hilario. You
Speaker 1: have to call her Laria. Hilaria Ilaria Well.
Speaker 2: In every scene of that show, Alec Baldwin looks exhausted.
Speaker 2: I have never seen a more tired man in my life.
Speaker 2: You are not meant to have kids at sixty four.
Speaker 2: Probably it's that many at least.
Speaker 1: Well, Alec Baldwin does what Alec Baldwin wants and he's
Speaker 1: on the Red Carpet this week talking to E News
Speaker 1: and I asked him, what is the one message that
Speaker 1: you want to give your children? What do you want
Speaker 1: to impart to them? And he said this, I want
Speaker 1: my kids to grow up having hope because it was
Speaker 1: right now it's it's more hopeless than I've ever seen,
Speaker 1: and like, I love that hope is lovely and I
Speaker 1: don't disagree with them, but it's just like how it
Speaker 1: feels very live, laugh love on a cushion, doesn't it?
Speaker 1: Like how are you doing this?
Speaker 3: I'm surprised that I'm listening to Alec Balden and being
Speaker 3: like the guy makes a good point because I don't
Speaker 3: think of Alec Baldwin as my parent, and girl obviously
Speaker 3: Stacy's parents in Guru is Hailey b Bu. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: knew that. I thought mine would be more like a
Speaker 3: Mandy Moore, But I guess it's maybe Alec Baldwin because
Speaker 3: I agree with him. Hope is such an important thing
Speaker 3: to pass along. Do you have ways to impart hope
Speaker 3: having tips for us?
Speaker 1: Well only maybe Danny Go could do a hope song
Speaker 1: where it's like you're running, You're running, keep on having hope.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's an el Nino. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's a climate crasis. Oh my god, it's cuts of
Speaker 1: letting duck. That's what we need. Danny Go is the
Speaker 1: only one that can save us this point. But I
Speaker 1: did look into it, and there is a program that
Speaker 1: a children's advocacy place called. It used to be called
Speaker 1: Save the Children. It's now called fifty four Reasons. It's
Speaker 1: an organization. They run a program called Journey of Hope.
Speaker 1: It's a well being course. They run an in Victorian
Speaker 1: and Queensland schools. It's currently not being run.
Speaker 3: Oh dear, there is a lack of hope in the program.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. The thing I want to chat about
Speaker 1: today is hr culture in the schoolyard, because there was
Speaker 1: an article doing the rounds this week that I want
Speaker 1: to unpack. It's from the Age and the City Morning Herald.
Speaker 1: By Kimberly Gillen, and it was called what Teachers Wish
Speaker 1: the parents of Problem Children Knew. Now, first of all,
Speaker 1: problem children is in quotation marks for anyone that's listening
Speaker 1: to this. We don't love that phrase, because often problem
Speaker 1: children are children who are struggling, or who are neurodivergent
Speaker 1: or I disregulated, or are being bullied, or their brains
Speaker 1: aren't fully developed. But I digress, because the article actually
Speaker 1: isn't really about problem children. What it's about is how
Speaker 1: parents and teachers have stopped trusting each other. And it
Speaker 1: opens with this school principle Ryan Martin saying that when
Speaker 1: his own son got a detention and his son came
Speaker 1: home and said, Dad, I got this detention for this thing.
Speaker 1: His first response was, well, that is ridiculous. I am
Speaker 1: calling the school and he had to kind of take
Speaker 1: a beat, which actually I found that comforting to know
Speaker 1: that even a school principle, like someone that would react
Speaker 1: like that in defense of their own child. But then
Speaker 1: he takes a beat and remembered the thing that teachers
Speaker 1: often know is that a child's version of events is
Speaker 1: not always the full story. And so this principle's point
Speaker 1: in the article was if you go in as a parent,
Speaker 1: if you're gone with curiosity instead of combat, then you
Speaker 1: almost always get a better outcome. But here's the bigger
Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about today. We keep hearing
Speaker 1: these reports of teachers and principals who are just so
Speaker 1: burnt out or they're leaving the profession early, and no
Speaker 1: one wants to be in the profession anymore. And the
Speaker 1: line you hear again and again is I love the
Speaker 1: kids and I love the job, but it's the parents
Speaker 1: that I cannot handle. And parents are contacting schools more
Speaker 1: wanting answers, wanting accountability, often very ready to take their
Speaker 1: child's side immediately, and it's real us versus them mentality
Speaker 1: which has really shifted. So my theory is this, it
Speaker 1: feels like schools have sort of absorbed this now in
Speaker 1: response to this, this kind of overly documented hr workplace
Speaker 1: culture of paper trayals and of escalation to principles and
Speaker 1: looping in principles of visibility. And I just feel like
Speaker 1: no one is any better off from this. And I
Speaker 1: really noticed it at the last parent teaching interview I
Speaker 1: went to. And I don't want to throw anyone under
Speaker 1: the bus here, but I remember parent teaching interviews. It
Speaker 1: was like my parents would go and it was like,
Speaker 1: how's it all going? All good, thumbs up, how can
Speaker 1: we help educate this child together? But the thing I
Speaker 1: noticed in the last parent teacher interview I went to
Speaker 1: was the level of documentation that I had to kind
Speaker 1: of cite was we've done this, and we are at
Speaker 1: this point of the documentation and here's this policy on this.
Speaker 1: And it felt very kind of workplace performance review, which
Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting. So I've also heard from
Speaker 1: teachers who are all about the email trials and saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of them, we spend less time teaching and
Speaker 1: more time managing parents and this kind of culture of
Speaker 1: compliance of paper trayals, And I just feel like the
Speaker 1: dynamic has shifted from where a community educating this child
Speaker 1: together to parents are customers. The school is providing a
Speaker 1: service and a lot of parents just want to speak
Speaker 1: to the manager.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it feels like there's a correlation between like
Speaker 2: how involved that generation of parents were with their children
Speaker 2: generally and then how involved they are with school. Like
Speaker 2: I feel like boomers were pretty free range, like hands off.
Speaker 2: They'd go as you say, like once a year and
Speaker 2: be like, Yep, any major issues, Okay, yeah, great, we're done,
Speaker 2: Whereas millennials are overinvolved and feel like the more effort
Speaker 2: we put in, the better the result back, and so
Speaker 2: therefore then you're up in everyone's grill.
Speaker 3: And then that.
Speaker 2: Leads to mistrust between the teachers and the parents, which
Speaker 2: is just so unhelpful all round.
Speaker 3: I'm going to defend the parents for a bit. I
Speaker 3: completely agree with everything you said, Mon's and no one
Speaker 3: gets into education and being an educator because they want
Speaker 3: to answer emails from annoying parents. Totally agree with that,
Speaker 3: But I'm a little torn because I do think that
Speaker 3: the balance between annoying the teachers and advocating for your
Speaker 3: child is a tricky one to strike. I agree, and
Speaker 3: it's not as though we're living in an era now
Speaker 3: where we have more complex challenges facing children then we've had,
Speaker 3: certainly in our lifetimes. Is what I would say, things
Speaker 3: like AI and climate change and issues that feel kind
Speaker 3: of existential and for which we don't have solutions. Teachers, children, parents,
Speaker 3: No one has solutions governments, so I don't think there's
Speaker 3: any I don't want to judge parents too harshly for thinking, well,
Speaker 3: I've got to make sure that my kid is getting
Speaker 3: the best possible chance at navigating this extremely turbulent world.
Speaker 3: And sometimes it feels as though I really try not
Speaker 3: to contact my kids teachers because I know that they're
Speaker 3: overextended and underresourced. But then I sometimes worry that it's
Speaker 3: a squeaky wheel situation and that the parents who are
Speaker 3: constantly haranguing them at school pickup or who are sending
Speaker 3: them emails because their kid had this problem the other day,
Speaker 3: are those the parents that are ultimately smoothing the way
Speaker 3: for their children.
Speaker 1: Yes, they are, which is a problem.
Speaker 3: Well, let me rephrase that. Are they the children who
Speaker 3: are actually getting the attention and the opportunities because their
Speaker 3: parents are advocating for them?
Speaker 1: Well, I agree, it's tricky, because advocacy is really important
Speaker 1: if your child has difficulties always being bullied, or falling
Speaker 1: through the cracks, or needs extra learning attention, or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. But I think what this article talks about
Speaker 1: is how when parents step in for every uncomfortable moment,
Speaker 1: kids miss the chance to learn huge and very important
Speaker 1: life lessons. They miss the chance to learn how to apologize,
Speaker 1: how to be accountable for behavior, how to talk to
Speaker 1: an adult that's not their parent, and how to solve
Speaker 1: a problem with that adult, how do hear feedback, how
Speaker 1: to tell the truth even when it makes them look bad,
Speaker 1: how to tolerate embarrassment. And it just creates so much more
Speaker 1: work for everyone. So yeah, I feel I think I
Speaker 1: agree with your point about advocacy, but I also want
Speaker 1: to talk about, like, do you think schools have shifted
Speaker 1: from being a community relationship to like a service one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I think there probably is a little bit
Speaker 2: of entitlement there, maybe from families, which I can understand
Speaker 2: as well, especially if you're paying a lot of money
Speaker 2: to put your child into a school where you're hoping
Speaker 2: that you're going to get a really good outcome for them.
Speaker 2: If it feels like that's not happening, I can understand
Speaker 2: why parents would feel the need to get involved there
Speaker 2: and advocate for their kids. We actually on Mama Mea
Speaker 2: this week ran an article by Anita McCurdy and she
Speaker 2: it was titled I'm a parent and a teacher and
Speaker 2: I'm scared of both sides. So she was talking about
Speaker 2: like being in this position of being able to see
Speaker 2: it from both sides and going we're really in this
Speaker 2: lose lose situation because she said that how dramatically education
Speaker 2: has changed now, and that schooling has become so much
Speaker 2: more complex. She said, the way families show up has
Speaker 2: changed because of technology and AI, and the demands are higher.
Speaker 2: So it feels like everything's heightened on both sides for
Speaker 2: the parents and the teachers. And she said somewhere along
Speaker 2: the way, education became a space where schools were expected
Speaker 2: to solve almost everything well being behavior, mental health, academic outcomes,
Speaker 2: social challenges, and growing complexity. Often while I'm enormous scrutiny themselves.
Speaker 3: Well, I wonder if part of that is private schools,
Speaker 3: in particular their fees and not keeping chrack with inflation.
Speaker 3: They've in fact increased beyond inflation, particularly over the last
Speaker 3: two decades. So those private schools are in a way
Speaker 3: setting themselves up for situations like this because when you're
Speaker 3: charging and by the way, that money is not flowing
Speaker 3: to the educators. I don't know where it's going, but
Speaker 3: it's going on the school grounds. We'll talk about that
Speaker 3: in a bit. It's not going to the people who
Speaker 3: are teaching children. So I wonder if by setting up
Speaker 3: that kind of consumer relationship. You also set up as
Speaker 3: you say, mones like consumer like demands.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does feel like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the more paperwork there is for the teachers,
Speaker 2: like it's like any job kind of where you end
Speaker 2: up in middle management, where you got taken away from
Speaker 2: the thing that originally brought you into it. Like all
Speaker 2: these incredible teachers that we have in this system are
Speaker 2: leaving because they're exhausted by the part that's not the
Speaker 2: part is why they started the job. They're there because
Speaker 2: they want to engage with your children, educate your children,
Speaker 2: make a difference for them. And what they're getting is
Speaker 2: having to send receipt emails after a phone call and
Speaker 2: having to tick boxes for a four year old or
Speaker 2: a five year old that they've gone through this whole
Speaker 2: curriculum with them. Like it does feel like everything's made
Speaker 2: it so complicated, and I don't know what the answer
Speaker 2: is to bring that back down, like to drop the stakes.
Speaker 3: There were a couple of like sort of actionable things
Speaker 3: in that article that I really that stuck out to me.
Speaker 3: One of them was if you are able to kind
Speaker 3: of spend time volunteering at your kids' school, I guess
Speaker 3: They've done research that shows that that makes kids feel
Speaker 3: more secure and comfortable in the school environment, which makes
Speaker 3: this kind of conflict situation where the parents is sort
Speaker 3: of swooping in to talk to the teacher for the
Speaker 3: first time all semester to shout at them a little
Speaker 3: less fraught. And another thing that said that was really interesting,
Speaker 3: which I actually tried to implement the other day, is
Speaker 3: when you do have to talk to the teacher about something,
Speaker 3: if you can loop the child in, then they can
Speaker 3: be learning how to advocate for themselves in hopefully a
Speaker 3: curiosity driven and respectful manner. So I did have to
Speaker 3: write an email to a teacher and my child has
Speaker 3: to read it, so I read it to her, and
Speaker 3: I was trying to follow the advice in the article.
Speaker 1: There can I just finish with a really positive story
Speaker 1: from a school please obsessed with and I think about
Speaker 1: a lot. It's probably my Roman Empire. The school that
Speaker 1: my kids go to has two female principals who job
Speaker 1: share the principal role, and they each work four days
Speaker 1: a week, so they overlap on many days, right, And
Speaker 1: they had to take this concept to the board and say, hey,
Speaker 1: it's gonna mean now. Budget is higher. That's going to
Speaker 1: mean we cost more. But we think all these benefits,
Speaker 1: you're gonna all these benefits. You're gonna get two leaders,
Speaker 1: two amazing female leaders who have who are working mothers,
Speaker 1: who have primary school as children in other schools, and
Speaker 1: we think we can make this work. And it has
Speaker 1: transformed that school. Every day when I see them together
Speaker 1: out in the school yard, I'm like, you girls are
Speaker 1: nailing it. And I just wish more school boards, more
Speaker 1: educators would understand, like it can be done. You don't
Speaker 1: have to fit into this mold of like burning yourself
Speaker 1: out every five seconds. And because they're so visible in
Speaker 1: the school, they've sort of set this culture of collaboration
Speaker 1: and what we're talking about before, of like we're in
Speaker 1: this together, it's not on us versus them. It's just
Speaker 1: been so remarkable to see like people breaking outside of
Speaker 1: the box this job share situation. It is time for recommendations.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my first recommendation is job Share Job Sharing Principles,
Speaker 1: four days a week. Stacy, what are you recommending this week? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm recommending a recipe. This week's very rogue for me,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to make something that was like healthyish
Speaker 1: for breakfast. That wasn't because it is toast one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of the time, which is fine.
Speaker 3: Toast is great.
Speaker 2: Toast is fine. But I was like, I want to
Speaker 2: make something that I can just like chuck in the
Speaker 2: freezer and I could pull them out when we need them.
Speaker 2: So I found a recipe so organized it's a bit,
Speaker 2: but it's actually not. It's because I'm not organized because
Speaker 2: we've run out of bread a few times and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need like a backup, or I need something where
Speaker 2: I can be like, I don't have time to butter
Speaker 2: your toast. You're bringing this in the car while we're
Speaker 2: in motion to school. You can eat. So it's actually
Speaker 2: the opposite of that. But I found a recipe just
Speaker 2: like from a small creator on TikTok, so we'll link
Speaker 2: it in the show notes to the one I used.
Speaker 2: Their breakfast sprinkle muffins is what I call them. So
Speaker 2: it's just banana oats, egg flour, and then you sweetenet
Speaker 2: with cinnamon and honey to however much you want to
Speaker 2: put in with sprinkles on the top, and it's like
Speaker 2: they got dessert for breakfast in the car, but everything
Speaker 2: else that's in. It is great, and I've actually eaten
Speaker 2: half of them. This is the second time I've made them,
Speaker 2: and my tip is to chuck it all in a
Speaker 2: Therma milk, or if you've got like any of those,
Speaker 2: like a bullet. What did I say, firm, I do
Speaker 2: not own a Thermo mix. I love that. I've just
Speaker 2: said that. I wish I owned a Therma mix. I
Speaker 2: mean a neutrab bullet. But it's exactly what I meant.
Speaker 2: Just use a blender, like any type of blender. Just
Speaker 2: blend it all up, because then the oats have gone.
Speaker 2: They don't even know they're there. There's no texture to it.
Speaker 2: It's the banana no texture either. All they say is
Speaker 2: sprinkles on the top and they'll think it's the best
Speaker 2: thing ever. So that's my recommendation. They're actually delicious. You
Speaker 2: will like them.
Speaker 1: Put a little bit of vanilla essence in it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I forgot. You're a master baker. We pulled
Speaker 2: that out every now and again, don't we. Why am
Speaker 2: I telling you a recipe? Nice?
Speaker 1: Well, I am recommending a something a bit bougie. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm such a crocodile in winter. I'm all scally right,
Speaker 1: but I want to recommend this thing. It's expensive, but
Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's called loss of ton. Yeah I pronounce it,
Speaker 1: but like you look at it and it's like lock,
Speaker 1: can't lock. That one's pronounced lots of time. It's called
Speaker 1: almond shower oil. They sell one every like three seconds
Speaker 1: or something. I was like, right, I'm going to see
Speaker 1: what the hype is. It is the goat. It is
Speaker 1: so good. It's so moisturizing. It smells like you're in
Speaker 1: a stacepark and oh my god. It's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing you would never buy for yourself. But if you
Speaker 1: want to gift something to a mum, or if you're
Speaker 1: a husband listening, who's like, what should I get my
Speaker 1: wife for a birthday? This? Get the almond shower oil.
Speaker 2: It is my mom Christmas. Also buy it for yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just buy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay.
Speaker 3: Also, you don't need to then put.
Speaker 1: You're so moisture, you just slip out of the show winter.
Speaker 3: You don't want to put on lotions.
Speaker 2: And actually, if you're really on a budget, they do
Speaker 2: do a version of it in coals and woolies do
Speaker 2: just like a more there's a jupe. It's not as
Speaker 2: good but there is a and it's quite good, still
Speaker 2: smells the same.
Speaker 3: There's a mid range tube Curium has a body oil
Speaker 3: shower gel that is very similar. Doesn't have that alm
Speaker 3: and smell, but it has that same.
Speaker 1: Really feeling smell of it that I need. Yeah, who's
Speaker 1: that time to go to a day spar Not me.
Speaker 1: I don't need it anymore. I just need five minutes
Speaker 1: in my show.
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't knock it back. Yeah, yeah, take
Speaker 2: the days bar, we take the shower.
Speaker 3: I'm glad that you both had very practical recommendations because
Speaker 3: my recommendation this week is a little bit of a
Speaker 3: recommendation to private schools. Oh a little bit salty. So
Speaker 3: across Australia we're seeing this thing of more and more
Speaker 3: sporting deserts, which is basically means that kids don't have
Speaker 3: enough access to sporting facilities. This is especially true in
Speaker 3: sort of outer suburbs of big cities, like It's particularly
Speaker 3: acute there, and it seems to me that there is
Speaker 3: a very easy fix for this. When I used to
Speaker 3: live in Washington, DC, we had a number of private
Speaker 3: schools nearby that just routinely opened up their grounds on
Speaker 3: the weekend for the public to use. So there was
Speaker 3: one that had the most amazing adventure playground and it
Speaker 3: was just open on the weekends for the oh.
Speaker 2: So it's just like traded like a park. It's just
Speaker 2: like you can just go there whenever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh cool. And part of the reasoning there was
Speaker 3: that like schools get all sorts of tax breaks and
Speaker 3: special treatment from the government, and so this is one
Speaker 3: way they can kind of give back to the community
Speaker 3: that they are getting these kinds of financial benefits from.
Speaker 3: But in Australia, I think it's even more acute because
Speaker 3: many private schools in Australia, more than half in New
Speaker 3: South Wales, and I'm sure it's true in other states too,
Speaker 3: are getting more money from the government than public schools.
Speaker 3: It were very unusual in terms of like rich countries
Speaker 3: that give more money to private schools than public schools.
Speaker 3: So my taxpayer funds are going to fund these beautiful grounds,
Speaker 3: and why not open them up on the weekends and
Speaker 3: enable kids to enjoy the facility.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that simple.
Speaker 3: Well, what happens in the US, and the US is
Speaker 3: a highly litigious society.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm amazed at that it happens there. Because
Speaker 1: if you think about like I think in emotionally amazing
Speaker 1: idea and practically a great idea too, But when I
Speaker 1: think about like staffing, booking.
Speaker 2: On damage, if someone damage, yeah.
Speaker 1: The public liability.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a really good question. I guess. I guess
Speaker 3: they probably have some sign somewhere that says you were
Speaker 3: entering this playground at your own risk. And I'm sure
Speaker 3: they have security cameras up, but it's just routine there.
Speaker 1: There's such a good point about if there are if
Speaker 1: there's public money going towards the building of a facility,
Speaker 1: there should have to be some sort of like community
Speaker 1: pathway for that facility to be at some percentage ought
Speaker 1: to be publicly available.
Speaker 3: What really galls me is that I live around the
Speaker 3: corner from a private school which has a beautiful twenty
Speaker 3: five meter pool which all summer literally sits there empty. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And it kind of breaks my heart because I happen
Speaker 3: to know that that school has been given government funding
Speaker 3: to at least partially fund that beautiful half sized Olympic pool,
Speaker 3: and all some are just sitting there. So I'm just
Speaker 3: saying private schools have a think about it.
Speaker 1: Like The other side of the coin is some private
Speaker 1: schools fund buildings works via themselves, so I fundraisers or
Speaker 1: building levees, and like they might say, well, hang on,
Speaker 1: I've helped fund this. Our private school fees have funded this,
Speaker 1: and now you're opening it to the public like some
Speaker 1: of them do.
Speaker 3: But like I say, Australia is unique among OECD countries
Speaker 3: for giving federal government funds to private schools. In the US,
Speaker 3: the government doesn't give any money to private schools. They
Speaker 3: get the tax breaks, but they get zero money from
Speaker 3: the government. So I just think we should think about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm surprised it's not some sort of pilot program.
Speaker 3: Have your two principles think about it. Put their heads together.
Speaker 1: They can solve anything. I think getting kids playing more
Speaker 1: sport is very, very, very important. So thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing that, Amelia. All right, that is all we have
Speaker 1: time for this week. Thank you for joining us, and
Speaker 1: we'll see you next Saturday. Momama acknowledges the traditional owners
Speaker 1: of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.