WEBVTT - A Sunday Evening At Bondi Beach 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.953 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:14.394 --> 0:00:18.034 Today is a different show than usual, because today is 0:00:18.074 --> 0:00:21.754 a different day. Last night, as the light was fading 0:00:21.794 --> 0:00:25.674 at Bondi Beach, Australia suffered its worst ever terrorist attack 0:00:25.714 --> 0:00:29.034 on our soil when two gunmen opened fire on a 0:00:29.034 --> 0:00:34.754 family celebration of the Jewish religious festival of lights Hannekah. Today, 0:00:34.954 --> 0:00:37.394 we're all, whether we're connected to the place in the 0:00:37.434 --> 0:00:40.394 community or whether we're watching and reading from far away, 0:00:41.273 --> 0:00:44.954 reeling with the loss of As we record this, fifteen 0:00:45.034 --> 0:00:47.354 innocent people, including. 0:00:46.913 --> 0:00:48.393 A ten year old child. 0:00:48.593 --> 0:00:51.313 More than forty people are still in hospital, including two 0:00:51.394 --> 0:00:55.514 police officers and more children. As we're recording and throughout 0:00:55.514 --> 0:00:57.993 the day, the identities of those affected are coming to 0:00:58.074 --> 0:01:02.514 light and it's just unthinkably sad and very frightening. So 0:01:02.554 --> 0:01:05.554 today on Mamma Mia out Loud, we're here to talk. 0:01:06.314 --> 0:01:09.754 And joining me for this talk are Jesse Stevens, Amelia 0:01:09.834 --> 0:01:15.394 Lester and Mia Friedman. Mia, thank you for coming back 0:01:15.434 --> 0:01:19.354 to the mic today. This attack did happen in your 0:01:19.354 --> 0:01:24.634 community and close to home. Let's start with why last night, 0:01:25.874 --> 0:01:29.834 what kind of gathering that was at the beach for Hannakah? 0:01:29.914 --> 0:01:33.954 Yeah, first of all, thanks to all the out louders 0:01:33.954 --> 0:01:36.514 who've reached out the kindness, and I know we're going 0:01:36.554 --> 0:01:38.514 to talk about that more shortly, but the kindness that 0:01:38.594 --> 0:01:42.874 has been shown by so many people has been quite overwhelming. 0:01:43.434 --> 0:01:48.994 Hannakhah is just a really simple, happy festival. It's called 0:01:48.994 --> 0:01:53.194 the Festival of Light. Ironically, it is a festival that 0:01:53.394 --> 0:01:58.274 is about celebrating the triumph of light over darkness, and 0:01:58.754 --> 0:02:02.994 it sort of celebrates this old story of a small 0:02:03.074 --> 0:02:07.114 band of Jewish people who won against a much bigger empire. 0:02:07.434 --> 0:02:08.954 And there was a tiny bit of oil that should 0:02:08.954 --> 0:02:11.754 have lasted one day, but somehow, by a miracle, it 0:02:11.913 --> 0:02:15.194 kept a sacred flame burning fight. So over the eight 0:02:15.274 --> 0:02:17.434 days of Hunterkah, we like candles and we tell the 0:02:17.474 --> 0:02:20.034 story and we eat lots of treats. So it's sort 0:02:20.034 --> 0:02:22.114 of like a bit of a Christmas equivalent. You know, 0:02:22.154 --> 0:02:25.714 some people give presents. It's very family and children based. 0:02:25.754 --> 0:02:27.994 It's a very sort of happy festival. 0:02:28.474 --> 0:02:34.554 And this festival in Bondai last night was you know, 0:02:34.914 --> 0:02:39.034 face painting, There was a petting zoo, there was food 0:02:39.074 --> 0:02:42.714 stands all all set up, and a gathering of. 0:02:44.354 --> 0:02:46.633 So many Jewish people. 0:02:47.074 --> 0:02:50.154 You know, some of whom we know are out louders, 0:02:50.194 --> 0:02:54.754 and when I've been to synagogue with you Maya, we 0:02:54.794 --> 0:02:59.073 are often approached by out louders from that community. And 0:02:59.394 --> 0:03:03.034 I think that just first up in terms of who 0:03:03.034 --> 0:03:08.754 we're thinking about today, that community, who who were there, 0:03:08.834 --> 0:03:14.394 who had this moment of peace and safety interrupted and 0:03:14.994 --> 0:03:20.633 you know, horrifically traumatically how that unfolded. We're just thinking 0:03:20.674 --> 0:03:22.954 of them, and we're thinking of everyone who had to 0:03:22.994 --> 0:03:26.274 send messages and check on their family who were there 0:03:26.914 --> 0:03:30.194 and who have experienced the unthinkable overnight. 0:03:30.834 --> 0:03:34.874 Yeah, it feels a lot of people have said, you know, 0:03:35.234 --> 0:03:37.474 obviously for those who don't know I'm Jewish, there are 0:03:37.474 --> 0:03:40.274 some people that might not know that I'm some out 0:03:40.274 --> 0:03:41.914 louders or people who are new to the show who 0:03:41.954 --> 0:03:43.954 might not realize that I'm Jewish, But I am Jewish. 0:03:44.154 --> 0:03:49.594 And a lot of people have said, you know, how 0:03:49.594 --> 0:03:53.994 do you feel? And the sentiment there's a million things, 0:03:54.034 --> 0:03:57.234 and I can't obviously speak for my whole community. I 0:03:57.234 --> 0:04:00.474 can only speak for myself. But what people keep saying 0:04:00.834 --> 0:04:05.034 is we are shocked, but we are not surprised because 0:04:05.034 --> 0:04:09.834 to be Jewish living in any country, you grow up 0:04:09.874 --> 0:04:14.394 with a really acute awareness that there are a lot 0:04:14.434 --> 0:04:18.313 of people who hate Jews and that your safety is 0:04:18.354 --> 0:04:22.433 always precarious, particularly during gatherings. 0:04:22.993 --> 0:04:26.553 And that's why the presence of security is someone who's 0:04:26.594 --> 0:04:30.833 been welcomed into the Eastern Suburbs Jewish community as an outsider, 0:04:31.513 --> 0:04:33.953 to go to a place of worship and see people 0:04:33.953 --> 0:04:37.633 standing out the front, with standing out the front as 0:04:37.674 --> 0:04:39.553 security is not something you see when you walk. 0:04:39.433 --> 0:04:42.753 Into a Catholic church, no, And it's interesting because we 0:04:42.834 --> 0:04:47.033 take that sofa granted, like you know, there's raizor wire 0:04:47.113 --> 0:04:49.953 around our schools and our preschools and our daycare centers, 0:04:49.993 --> 0:04:54.514 and there is a whole volunteer security army of Jewish 0:04:54.513 --> 0:04:57.873 people that work to try and keep the community safe. 0:04:57.873 --> 0:05:00.953 And most Jewish events are kept very very secret for 0:05:01.034 --> 0:05:07.514 this exact reason always. And what's interesting, this particular Hanuka 0:05:07.594 --> 0:05:11.193 gathering was by the Hubbard community, which is you know, 0:05:11.274 --> 0:05:14.594 like any religion, there's a there's a spectrum of degrees 0:05:14.633 --> 0:05:19.593 of observance observance, yeah, exactly, And the Hubbard community is 0:05:19.714 --> 0:05:22.794 very open and they're very you know, one of the rabbis, 0:05:23.594 --> 0:05:25.713 the rabbi that was killed, the organizer of the event 0:05:26.354 --> 0:05:29.953 who goes by the handle on Instagram at Bondai Rabbi. 0:05:31.393 --> 0:05:34.914 He was very welcoming. You know, he just had his 0:05:35.193 --> 0:05:38.113 fifth child six weeks ago and he was posting on 0:05:38.154 --> 0:05:40.993 social media. He sort of uses social media to try 0:05:41.034 --> 0:05:45.634 and and break down some of the anti Semitism and 0:05:46.034 --> 0:05:49.953 to promote, you know, the religion as a as a 0:05:49.953 --> 0:05:50.873 really positive thing. 0:05:51.113 --> 0:05:54.833 I mean, the New South Wales Police commissioner mentioned I 0:05:54.914 --> 0:05:59.873 noticed that the Jewish community does have their own security force, 0:05:59.953 --> 0:06:01.394 which I did not know about. 0:06:01.873 --> 0:06:02.593 Yeah, we do. 0:06:02.753 --> 0:06:05.833 It's a lot of I have a lot of friends 0:06:05.873 --> 0:06:09.193 and relatives of friends. 0:06:09.274 --> 0:06:10.394 Of people of all ages. 0:06:10.953 --> 0:06:17.073 But it takes you know, our synagogues and our any 0:06:17.274 --> 0:06:20.674 Jewish gathering is we need a huge amount of protection 0:06:21.234 --> 0:06:23.553 and you grow up knowing it, and you know, I 0:06:23.594 --> 0:06:26.873 always say that they're purely volunteers, but they're very you know, 0:06:26.914 --> 0:06:29.513 they're well trained, and my heart's also with them today 0:06:29.513 --> 0:06:33.313 because their whole purpose is to try and keep our 0:06:33.354 --> 0:06:34.474 community safe. 0:06:35.313 --> 0:06:37.794 If you're not familiar with Bondai Beach, it sounds kind 0:06:37.794 --> 0:06:39.674 of like a silly thing to say, because it's no 0:06:39.753 --> 0:06:42.113 doubt one of the most famous places in Australia. But 0:06:42.154 --> 0:06:43.594 there are be lots of people listening to this who've 0:06:43.594 --> 0:06:46.274 never been there. Right, So Bondi is in these and 0:06:46.313 --> 0:06:50.513 suburbs of Sydney. It is intensely international. Anyone who would 0:06:50.553 --> 0:06:52.394 have been watching the news coverage last night would have 0:06:52.433 --> 0:06:55.794 been struck by the all the different accents from all 0:06:55.834 --> 0:06:57.634 over the world of the people who were caught up 0:06:57.714 --> 0:07:02.034 in this horrific event yesterday. So it attracts people from 0:07:02.474 --> 0:07:04.594 all over Sydney and all over the country and all 0:07:04.594 --> 0:07:06.993 over the world to see this beautiful beach and ye 0:07:07.154 --> 0:07:11.994 yesterday in Sydney was a stunning summer day and at 0:07:12.034 --> 0:07:15.034 about six thirty seven o'clock on an eastern suburb city 0:07:15.034 --> 0:07:18.354 beach when the weather is like this, there are thousands 0:07:18.393 --> 0:07:21.033 of people. So there was this very particular gathering. 0:07:21.754 --> 0:07:25.434 There's just on one part in the park behind the beach. 0:07:25.274 --> 0:07:27.953 Yes in a very specific place on the beach. But 0:07:28.034 --> 0:07:31.594 then all around them there were backpackers, there were surfers, 0:07:31.674 --> 0:07:34.074 there are families with their kids, there are people walking 0:07:34.114 --> 0:07:39.154 their docks, there are people exercising. This place is very busy, 0:07:39.274 --> 0:07:42.554 it's very populous, and I think one of the things 0:07:42.554 --> 0:07:46.754 that is so striking about this is that sort of 0:07:46.834 --> 0:07:51.234 peace and different degrees of celebration being so horrifically disrupted. 0:07:51.834 --> 0:07:52.354 But for the. 0:07:52.354 --> 0:07:55.473 Local community there, the eastern suburbs of Sydney has I 0:07:55.474 --> 0:07:59.274 think the second largest concentration of Jewish people in the country. 0:07:59.594 --> 0:08:00.393 So it's interesting. 0:08:00.434 --> 0:08:03.874 The Bondai community is incredibly tight and I've spent time 0:08:03.953 --> 0:08:07.593 living in Bondai as well, and you know a huge 0:08:07.674 --> 0:08:10.153 number of non Jewish people of course that live in Bondai, 0:08:10.234 --> 0:08:13.594 but the Jewish community is also very close knit. And 0:08:14.434 --> 0:08:17.114 you write the concentric circles of those two things overlap 0:08:17.274 --> 0:08:22.953 very much. And you know the geography is such because 0:08:22.994 --> 0:08:26.713 you might have seen bits in online or in the news. 0:08:26.754 --> 0:08:28.874 It's like there's Campbell Parade, which is the main road 0:08:28.914 --> 0:08:30.434 that runs from one end of the beach to the other. 0:08:30.514 --> 0:08:33.833 Then in front of that is like there's a bit 0:08:33.834 --> 0:08:35.794 of a car park, and there was that bridge where 0:08:35.794 --> 0:08:38.634 the terraces were, and then there's a park that goes 0:08:38.634 --> 0:08:39.234 from one end. 0:08:39.114 --> 0:08:39.434 To the other. 0:08:39.514 --> 0:08:43.514 Then there's the promenade, and then there's the beach. And 0:08:43.594 --> 0:08:47.594 so the where this happened was set up almost like 0:08:47.634 --> 0:08:49.594 a little fate, as you said, Jess, with like a 0:08:49.634 --> 0:08:53.674 petting zoo and little little market stalls and things. 0:08:53.514 --> 0:08:56.474 And in order to if you are walking to the 0:08:56.554 --> 0:08:58.714 children's park, you would go over that bridge like you would. 0:08:58.834 --> 0:09:01.514 Yeah, we've all been across that absolutely many times. 0:09:01.554 --> 0:09:04.274 And you know at that time there are still people 0:09:04.514 --> 0:09:07.514 swimming like it's a surface in the water. 0:09:07.554 --> 0:09:10.834 A very popular time and I can't think of many 0:09:10.874 --> 0:09:14.434 places in the world, in fact, where you would feel 0:09:14.434 --> 0:09:20.434 safer than sitting on the grass there in Bondai with 0:09:21.354 --> 0:09:30.274 that incredible, that calmness, that sereneness like and I think 0:09:30.314 --> 0:09:33.274 as someone who didn't grow up in the Eastern Suburbs 0:09:33.274 --> 0:09:37.914 but has moved there, you can't look at the Eastern 0:09:37.914 --> 0:09:42.474 Suburbs without without the Jewish presence, Like I think it's 0:09:42.514 --> 0:09:45.514 one third of the Jewish population in Australia lives in 0:09:45.514 --> 0:09:47.874 the Eastern Suburbs. And you see on a Friday night 0:09:48.314 --> 0:09:51.514 you see the men in their killers or traditional Jewish 0:09:52.194 --> 0:09:54.834 dress and that is part of living in the Eastern Suburbs. 0:09:54.914 --> 0:09:57.674 Quite a few synagogues around there, Yeah, yeah, because the 0:09:57.874 --> 0:10:00.594 very observant Jews. You need to walk to synagogue. But 0:10:01.234 --> 0:10:03.874 it's also the Jewish community, to be clear, is really small, 0:10:03.954 --> 0:10:06.274 Like there's one hundred thousand Jewish people in Australia. 0:10:06.354 --> 0:10:08.274 That's tin you tiny tiny. 0:10:08.354 --> 0:10:11.634 That must mean though that an event like this, I mean, 0:10:11.834 --> 0:10:17.034 for you, last night, everybody knows somebody, I assume. Yeah, 0:10:17.074 --> 0:10:22.114 And so everybody's messaging each other, everybody's checking in, everybody's afraid. 0:10:23.754 --> 0:10:24.834 Yeah, it's true. 0:10:24.954 --> 0:10:28.714 And you know, I was having dinner last night. I 0:10:28.754 --> 0:10:34.714 didn't I wasn't looking at my phone, and suddenly someone 0:10:34.754 --> 0:10:37.714 looked at their phone and then we all checked. And 0:10:37.874 --> 0:10:41.154 the sirens, we just heard sirens. We live a couple 0:10:41.154 --> 0:10:46.314 of suburbs away from Bondai and the other thing to explain, 0:10:46.394 --> 0:10:48.274 and then the choppers and everything. But the other thing 0:10:48.594 --> 0:10:50.274 for people to understand is that Bondo is a real 0:10:50.314 --> 0:10:54.154 melting pot. People sometimes hear eastern suburbs and think that 0:10:54.194 --> 0:10:57.034 it's all she shei and fancy and influences. It's like, 0:10:58.554 --> 0:11:03.394 it's not that Amelia. You've you don't live near there, 0:11:03.434 --> 0:11:05.394 but you've what's your well. 0:11:06.434 --> 0:11:10.874 I think this is why terrorism is so uniquely upsetting, 0:11:11.194 --> 0:11:16.834 because just as Hanakut is a sacred, holy special time 0:11:17.034 --> 0:11:22.474 for the Jewish community, the beach is Australians a sacred 0:11:22.514 --> 0:11:27.074 place too. And this is what terrorism aims to do. 0:11:27.274 --> 0:11:30.794 It aims to make us all feel unsafe by targeting 0:11:30.834 --> 0:11:36.794 one community practicing their religion at a place that is 0:11:36.834 --> 0:11:40.514 sacred to all Australians that it doesn't get more fundamental 0:11:40.554 --> 0:11:43.234 as a breach of what Australia is and what we 0:11:43.354 --> 0:11:43.994 stand for. 0:11:44.314 --> 0:11:48.554 And the symbolism of Bondao Beach, you could not probably 0:11:48.714 --> 0:11:52.474 find a more iconic symbol of what it is to 0:11:52.474 --> 0:11:52.994 be Australia. 0:11:53.034 --> 0:11:56.514 It's the one place in Australia that everyone in the 0:11:56.554 --> 0:11:59.394 world knows. They don't know the Harbor Bridge, some of 0:11:59.394 --> 0:12:01.834 them know the Opera House, some of them know Ularu. 0:12:02.634 --> 0:12:06.914 Everyone's heard of Bondo Beach and what they think of 0:12:07.194 --> 0:12:10.953 they think of Bondo Beach is the quintessential Australian lifestyle 0:12:10.954 --> 0:12:14.314 that is practiced there, which includes people of all religions 0:12:14.354 --> 0:12:17.794 and all social classes coming together to have an ice 0:12:17.874 --> 0:12:21.194 cream at the end of what was a quintessential early 0:12:21.274 --> 0:12:21.874 summer day. 0:12:22.874 --> 0:12:27.994 And the acknowledgment last night as it was all coming 0:12:28.034 --> 0:12:30.994 in and we were, you know, checking on friends and 0:12:31.754 --> 0:12:32.394 I'm looking at it. 0:12:32.474 --> 0:12:35.314 You have family that live at Bondai and you're down 0:12:35.354 --> 0:12:35.953 in that part. 0:12:36.154 --> 0:12:37.754 Yeah, yeah, you're there. 0:12:37.594 --> 0:12:40.474 Offer very with your family, familiar and you're thinking about 0:12:41.994 --> 0:12:45.874 the children and the people, they're just practicing their faith. 0:12:45.914 --> 0:12:52.314 And I just kept thinking about you flee Europe because 0:12:52.354 --> 0:12:55.594 of the Holocaust and the mass migration to the Eastern suburbs, 0:12:55.874 --> 0:12:57.994 a lot of it happened after World War Two, post 0:12:57.994 --> 0:13:01.754 Holocaust to flee ethnic persecution, and you end up on 0:13:01.834 --> 0:13:06.834 the shores of Bondai Beach and you are attacked there. 0:13:06.914 --> 0:13:13.314 The unthinkable, unfathomable cruelty of that, and then as we 0:13:13.354 --> 0:13:17.154 have learned more about the victims, including one victim who 0:13:17.274 --> 0:13:20.394 was himself a Holocaust survivor, as was his wife. To 0:13:20.514 --> 0:13:26.434 be killed on Bondi Beach is just I think unsettles 0:13:26.434 --> 0:13:30.194 our sense of who we are as Australians and what 0:13:30.274 --> 0:13:33.914 we offer people who come here wanting us say for life. 0:13:34.834 --> 0:13:37.914 The truth is that we've been feeling unsettled in the 0:13:37.914 --> 0:13:42.194 community for a while now. There's been growing anti Semitism 0:13:42.434 --> 0:13:46.674 and what I said about we're so shocked, but we're 0:13:46.674 --> 0:13:47.474 not surprised. 0:13:47.514 --> 0:13:50.314 This is our worst fears realized. 0:13:51.354 --> 0:13:58.954 And as I said, when there's such a small community, 0:13:59.234 --> 0:14:02.634 pretty much every Jewish person is the descendant of either 0:14:02.634 --> 0:14:06.634 Holocaust victims or Holocaust survivors. Usually Holocaust victims. We all 0:14:06.674 --> 0:14:10.354 have family members who were lost in the Holocaust. I 0:14:10.394 --> 0:14:12.314 have it on both sides, or my kids have it 0:14:12.354 --> 0:14:16.514 on both sides of their family, and so that's always 0:14:16.554 --> 0:14:19.274 present in our mind. But you're right, there's a certain 0:14:19.834 --> 0:14:24.274 sense of suspension of fear that you have to have 0:14:24.474 --> 0:14:26.994 to go about your daily life, and you are more 0:14:27.034 --> 0:14:31.834 alert when you go to like a synagogue or you know, 0:14:31.914 --> 0:14:36.434 I've been to Jewish events, But as you say, there's 0:14:36.434 --> 0:14:39.314 something about Bonday Beach because this wasn't like a religious 0:14:39.754 --> 0:14:42.914 they weren't practicing their religion. It was just like a gathering, 0:14:42.994 --> 0:14:47.034 like a community gathering that anyone was welcome to celebrated 0:14:47.154 --> 0:14:48.914 exactly like a Christmas. 0:14:48.474 --> 0:14:50.634 Concert like Carols by the Beach or something like that. 0:14:50.714 --> 0:14:52.114 We're going to be back in a moment. 0:15:04.274 --> 0:15:06.274 We wanted to talk a little bit about how this 0:15:06.434 --> 0:15:09.234 is a lot more local story. It's it's the top 0:15:09.314 --> 0:15:13.474 story on news sites all around the world. I think 0:15:13.474 --> 0:15:16.034 it's the top news story in the world today. 0:15:16.354 --> 0:15:17.314 Why do you think that is? 0:15:18.954 --> 0:15:22.434 I think that that Jewish communities all over the world 0:15:22.514 --> 0:15:24.274 are deeply touch. 0:15:25.834 --> 0:15:26.034 Yeah. 0:15:26.234 --> 0:15:28.834 Yeah, But I also think that it is the fact 0:15:28.994 --> 0:15:33.354 that a terrorist attack of this magnitude in Australia does 0:15:33.434 --> 0:15:36.994 not happen. A usual story Australia is seen and we 0:15:37.074 --> 0:15:38.754 you know, we talked about this in different ways, but 0:15:40.074 --> 0:15:41.434 as a as a safe place. 0:15:42.274 --> 0:15:43.194 And I think. 0:15:42.994 --> 0:15:46.274 That this, the fact that this has happened in somewhere 0:15:46.314 --> 0:15:50.994 so iconically international, is going to be shocking to everybody. 0:15:51.194 --> 0:15:56.034 And to stand in plain sight on a footbridge with 0:15:56.234 --> 0:16:00.394 people running around you, I think there's this question. We 0:16:00.474 --> 0:16:05.674 are known internationally for our strict, strict gun laws, so 0:16:05.754 --> 0:16:09.314 there's also the image of a man holding a gun 0:16:09.474 --> 0:16:12.114 pointing it at civilians daylight. 0:16:12.234 --> 0:16:14.754 But they thought there were no guns in Australia. 0:16:14.954 --> 0:16:17.994 They felt very smug, didn't we Like every time they 0:16:18.074 --> 0:16:22.834 used to be mass shooting in America, people would say, 0:16:23.394 --> 0:16:27.514 thank Heavens that you know that our government enacted strict 0:16:27.554 --> 0:16:30.154 gun laws after Put Arthur, which was almost thirty years ago, 0:16:30.714 --> 0:16:35.394 and we thought that this wasn't able to happen. 0:16:35.874 --> 0:16:37.834 I think that gun thing is huge. I had people 0:16:38.034 --> 0:16:41.234 from the US asking me how did they get these guns. 0:16:41.434 --> 0:16:43.834 The second thing is, if I'm frank, I think a 0:16:43.834 --> 0:16:47.714 lot of people in America and internationally don't are not 0:16:47.794 --> 0:16:50.834 aware of Australia's large Jewish population. Well, as you pointed out, 0:16:50.914 --> 0:16:53.954 it's not large. It's less than a hundred thousand people. 0:16:54.154 --> 0:16:56.874 They don't think of Australia as a place where this 0:16:57.074 --> 0:17:02.034 kind of terrorism or violence happens, so you think of 0:17:02.074 --> 0:17:05.553 it as a place where people are pretty much unified, 0:17:05.594 --> 0:17:07.794 where this kind of violence is not a staple. 0:17:08.194 --> 0:17:12.794 The other two things are that this is arising anti 0:17:12.794 --> 0:17:15.594 Semitism is being felt all over the world, so this 0:17:15.754 --> 0:17:19.593 is something that is not just a local Australian issue. 0:17:19.674 --> 0:17:24.033 It is something that has been enormously felt. 0:17:24.394 --> 0:17:27.714 And it also just pierces everyone's sense of safety in 0:17:27.714 --> 0:17:31.313 the sense that Australia was seen as the safest, So 0:17:31.434 --> 0:17:34.714 if this is happening in Australia, people think it really 0:17:34.754 --> 0:17:35.834 can happen anywhere. 0:17:36.154 --> 0:17:40.553 The second thing is the proliferation of footage. So that 0:17:40.634 --> 0:17:42.194 there were so many people there and it was in 0:17:42.194 --> 0:17:44.914 a public area means that there are so many videos. 0:17:45.914 --> 0:17:51.394 In almost real time, we were getting images and videos 0:17:51.434 --> 0:17:56.754 of those men standing on that bridge. We then got 0:17:56.794 --> 0:17:59.354 the incredible footage which we're going to get to of 0:18:00.234 --> 0:18:05.074 a man intercepting one of the alleged terrorists. I think 0:18:05.114 --> 0:18:07.674 even the footage of everyone running like. 0:18:07.994 --> 0:18:10.513 That, every life savers. I mean it was all just 0:18:11.634 --> 0:18:14.434 was like something out of a nightmare. Yep. 0:18:14.834 --> 0:18:18.714 The thing is that this kind of horror is very 0:18:18.794 --> 0:18:23.354 unusual in Australia, but it is happening elsewhere a lot 0:18:23.394 --> 0:18:26.914 more often. And to that point, I wanted to talk 0:18:26.954 --> 0:18:30.834 about a contrast that I observed yesterday between two tragedies 0:18:30.954 --> 0:18:33.394 unfolding on the same day. And I bring it up 0:18:33.434 --> 0:18:36.114 not because a mass shooting in the United States is 0:18:36.194 --> 0:18:40.594 especially exceptional now, but because I found the contrast between 0:18:40.714 --> 0:18:45.594 how the two national leaders responded really instructive to how 0:18:45.714 --> 0:18:49.474 Australians can be feeling in this moment about our leaders. 0:18:50.954 --> 0:18:54.554 The mass shooting at Brown University, there was a lot 0:18:54.554 --> 0:18:57.314 of confusion, as there often is with mass shootings, and 0:18:57.994 --> 0:19:00.273 there was a very long man hunt that took place 0:19:00.474 --> 0:19:04.234 after these students had been shot while they were reviewing 0:19:04.274 --> 0:19:09.714 for their final exams, and Donald Trump posted on social 0:19:09.754 --> 0:19:12.434 media that a suspect was in custody. Now, this was 0:19:12.434 --> 0:19:14.714 at a time when students were locked in their dorms. 0:19:14.834 --> 0:19:18.074 They didn't know what was happening. This person who had 0:19:18.074 --> 0:19:20.593 shot students was on the loose in this very small, 0:19:20.754 --> 0:19:23.474 close knit college town, and he posts on social media, 0:19:23.634 --> 0:19:25.994 Everything's fine, the suspect is in custody. You can go 0:19:26.034 --> 0:19:30.234 about your business. Fifteen minutes later, he had to recount 0:19:30.274 --> 0:19:32.674 that post, and he had to say. 0:19:32.474 --> 0:19:33.634 Actually, I was wrong. 0:19:34.154 --> 0:19:38.234 I have to say that watching Anthony Albanese's press conference yesterday, 0:19:38.554 --> 0:19:42.914 Setting aside the longer you or any kind of political concerns, 0:19:42.954 --> 0:19:45.754 I just want to contrast the responses of the two leaders, 0:19:45.954 --> 0:19:47.874 because he got up at a moment when we also 0:19:47.914 --> 0:19:50.354 didn't know a lot about what had happened at BONDI. 0:19:50.994 --> 0:19:53.754 We still don't know all the facts, and he refused 0:19:53.794 --> 0:19:58.074 to give into speculation, or to make divisive statements, or 0:19:58.114 --> 0:20:03.914 to flame any kind of anger or or bitterness. Instead, 0:20:04.114 --> 0:20:06.914 he just struck what I thought was a really appropriate 0:20:07.354 --> 0:20:09.074 he said, and I want to read it because I 0:20:09.114 --> 0:20:11.834 thought it really hit the right note. An attack on 0:20:11.914 --> 0:20:16.074 Jewish Australians is an attack on every Australian, and every 0:20:16.114 --> 0:20:19.554 Australian tonight will be like me, devastated by this attack 0:20:19.674 --> 0:20:21.914 on our way of life. 0:20:22.154 --> 0:20:24.354 I completely agree, and. 0:20:25.874 --> 0:20:30.474 I think the Trump example speaks to the failures and 0:20:30.514 --> 0:20:33.914 shortcomings of social media at moments like that, and how 0:20:33.954 --> 0:20:36.834 you have this instinct to turn on the news because 0:20:37.354 --> 0:20:43.514 you know that the news will blur things that are 0:20:43.634 --> 0:20:48.154 not appropriate for all of us to see in the aftermath. 0:20:47.674 --> 0:20:48.954 And literally the imagery. 0:20:49.274 --> 0:20:53.313 Yes, yes, I know, in the aftermath you can, like 0:20:53.394 --> 0:20:55.994 I was terrified to go on Instagram or TikTok or 0:20:55.994 --> 0:20:58.434 anything because you can be bombarded with images you will 0:20:58.474 --> 0:21:03.754 never ever forget. And the misinformation is so unhelpful, the 0:21:03.794 --> 0:21:10.314 misinformation about other suburbs. And then you've got new rumors flying, yeah, 0:21:10.394 --> 0:21:13.154 exactly right, and you've got New South Wales Police and 0:21:13.194 --> 0:21:17.754 dedicating resources to either investigating those rumors or having to 0:21:19.434 --> 0:21:24.114 communicate with the wider public that they're not true. And 0:21:24.194 --> 0:21:27.514 I think that even thinking of the social media band 0:21:27.594 --> 0:21:31.793 for all it's you know, imperfections, and we won't go 0:21:31.834 --> 0:21:35.313 into that, but I just thought, if there is a 0:21:35.434 --> 0:21:38.954 moment where it would be great for young people not 0:21:39.074 --> 0:21:41.793 to have access to social media, it is this moment. 0:21:42.114 --> 0:21:45.553 It is interesting that because I still obviously spoke to 0:21:45.554 --> 0:21:47.833 my kids about what they're about to see on social 0:21:47.874 --> 0:21:50.634 because kids are still on social Yeah, you know, this 0:21:50.754 --> 0:21:52.234 is not the time to go into this, but they 0:21:52.274 --> 0:21:55.274 are still all on social media. I spoke to them 0:21:55.314 --> 0:21:58.074 straight away about you don't want to see this, like, 0:21:58.194 --> 0:22:00.714 you really don't want to see this, and I don't 0:22:00.754 --> 0:22:02.834 think they do want to see it, but I know 0:22:02.914 --> 0:22:05.354 they will see it, you know, so you I think 0:22:05.394 --> 0:22:07.793 that as a parent, it's one of the things that 0:22:08.074 --> 0:22:11.114 frustrates people. I think about having that power taken out 0:22:11.114 --> 0:22:13.554 of our hands. About once there was a time when 0:22:13.594 --> 0:22:15.553 it was like turn off the news, don't put on 0:22:15.594 --> 0:22:17.954 the radio, you know, and it felt like you were 0:22:17.954 --> 0:22:20.514 in control of what your children were going to consume. 0:22:21.154 --> 0:22:23.114 But I know that even if my kids aren't going 0:22:23.194 --> 0:22:25.194 to go hunting for that footage, they will be shown 0:22:25.194 --> 0:22:28.234 it at school today. They will see it inevitably, and 0:22:28.274 --> 0:22:32.794 so that means that it's changed kind of your responsibility 0:22:32.954 --> 0:22:34.674 to what to tell them about it, because I don't 0:22:34.714 --> 0:22:37.354 want them to hear all that stuff without first of all, 0:22:37.394 --> 0:22:42.234 hearing something a bit more responsible and appropriate. Not that 0:22:42.274 --> 0:22:45.874 there's any way to soften just such a horror, you know, 0:22:45.954 --> 0:22:50.354 the horror of this. It's unprecedented in Australia, and that's 0:22:50.554 --> 0:22:52.874 so important. But that was one of the important things 0:22:52.874 --> 0:22:57.234 to say to my kids. This is incredibly rare. Here 0:22:58.874 --> 0:23:01.034 I will say too, just so everybody understands this, because 0:23:01.034 --> 0:23:03.994 one of the things about watching a news story unfold 0:23:04.714 --> 0:23:07.354 like this on social is, everybody gets very impatient for 0:23:07.394 --> 0:23:09.434 why won't you call it what it is? For example, 0:23:09.594 --> 0:23:12.834 last night on the thing, it was like say that 0:23:12.874 --> 0:23:16.154 it was terrorism, and the traditional news won't do that 0:23:16.234 --> 0:23:18.874 until it has been called that by the authorities. And 0:23:19.074 --> 0:23:22.874 in this instance, it was called that relatively quickly because 0:23:22.874 --> 0:23:26.794 it was very very clearly terrorism in less than three hours, yes, 0:23:26.834 --> 0:23:29.994 and so then all the media could report that. But 0:23:30.034 --> 0:23:32.314 what you see on social until that happens is this 0:23:32.754 --> 0:23:36.554 boiling anger about why won't you say this and why 0:23:36.554 --> 0:23:38.994 won't you say that? And I think it's interesting for 0:23:38.994 --> 0:23:40.714 everyone to understand kind of why. 0:23:41.074 --> 0:23:45.314