Speaker 1: You're listening to I'MM with mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Bizz, the podcast that skips the
Speaker 2: inspirational quotes and get straight to the stuff that actually works.
Speaker 2: My name is m Vernon, and look, don't tell anyone,
Speaker 2: but I'm actually supposed to be in a meeting right
Speaker 2: now instead of here talking to you, which kind of
Speaker 2: makes this episode particularly relevant because we're talking about how
Speaker 2: to be productive without trying too hard. So you know
Speaker 2: those people who make productivity look completely effortless, Well, we're
Speaker 2: going to actually be stealing their secrets while also making
Speaker 2: it achievable for those of us who don't want to
Speaker 2: wake up at four am every single morning. I'm so
Speaker 2: over those lists of ten productivity hacks because it's just
Speaker 2: too much to remember and I end up using absolutely
Speaker 2: none of them. So what I've done is I've asked
Speaker 2: our two career coaches, Michelle Batisbye and Sohurst, to just
Speaker 2: keep it real and give us one game changing productivity
Speaker 2: strategy each that will actually work. Michelle is an entrepreneur
Speaker 2: who launched Bumble in Australia and now runs her own startup,
Speaker 2: and So took the leap from Google to launch a
Speaker 2: coaching program for people in their early career era just
Speaker 2: like me. So let's get into it with what you
Speaker 2: struggle with when it comes to those dreaded hacks.
Speaker 3: I have a journal where I write every day, and
Speaker 3: I often make plans to get my life like more
Speaker 3: organized and be more productive. But every time I say, like,
Speaker 3: today's the day I want to do it, or like
Speaker 3: come up with a plan, I ended up not sticking
Speaker 3: to it or just like not following through. So I
Speaker 3: need advice how to make the plan and stick to it.
Speaker 1: I hate it when someone tells me to just plan
Speaker 1: my day ahead and I'll be more productive because the
Speaker 1: plan always seems to change throughout the day.
Speaker 3: So I need productivity tips that actually work for me.
Speaker 4: I just feel like everyone's always talking about these amazing
Speaker 4: productivity hacks.
Speaker 3: But honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to
Speaker 3: balance answering slack messages well actually getting my real work done.
Speaker 4: So today we're saying nope to productivity hacks. We're going simple.
Speaker 4: The vibe is going to be chill. I feel like
Speaker 4: we need some classical music or something here. By the
Speaker 4: end of this episode, you are going to get the
Speaker 4: one prioritization method that has completely changed Michelle's life and
Speaker 4: how to do it and the single smartest way to
Speaker 4: push back on your manager when they keep piling things
Speaker 4: on your plate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, Having a baby just forced me
Speaker 1: to reassess how I approach my working day. I'm sure
Speaker 1: many people can relate to this, But pre baby, I
Speaker 1: felt like I could go with the flow. I could
Speaker 1: always pick things up where I left out, and I
Speaker 1: guess I just had more time in my day to
Speaker 1: jump from task to task. But post baby, I've realized
Speaker 1: that the mums, we've got to full time jobs, and
Speaker 1: so we need to ruthlessly prioritize. And that's what the
Speaker 1: hack I'm going to share is all about.
Speaker 4: I follow so many productivity experts. It's kind of part
Speaker 4: of my job to help young people manage their time
Speaker 4: and their energy. I found this interesting thing happened where
Speaker 4: the more productivity hacks I saw, the more overwhelmed I felt,
Speaker 4: and actually the worst I was feeling, it didn't make
Speaker 4: me feel better, it made me feel worse and less productive.
Speaker 4: So the vibe of this episode is actually low effort
Speaker 4: but high impact. So low effort in fact, that we
Speaker 4: only have two points to share.
Speaker 1: No productivity burnout.
Speaker 4: Here, Michelle, I'm so looking forward to hearing your productivity
Speaker 4: method hit us with it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm sure we've all heard of Tim Farriss.
Speaker 1: He is an author, an investor, and he has a
Speaker 1: viral book called The Four Hour Workweek, and I kind
Speaker 1: of stumbled across this method. I actually was gifted a
Speaker 1: productivity planner that I opened one day and had no
Speaker 1: idea it was going to completely change my life. So
Speaker 1: I do recommend looking at this planner as well. If
Speaker 1: this method sounds like it's for you. It's from Intelligent
Speaker 1: Change and it's literally called the Productivity Planner, but it
Speaker 1: gathered a whole bunch of research and kind of spits
Speaker 1: out this new way to approach your day. And the
Speaker 1: thing that really stood out to me was Tim Ferriss's
Speaker 1: method for nailing your to do list. So step one
Speaker 1: of nailing your to do list is actually figuring out
Speaker 1: what the most important thing is. And I think as
Speaker 1: humans we can struggle to achieve this sometimes because we
Speaker 1: get decision paralysis. Apparently psychologically we're not even meant to
Speaker 1: be that good at knowing how to pick the number
Speaker 1: one thing. So ask yourself this question and it will
Speaker 1: figure it out for you. So the question is what
Speaker 1: is making me feel most uncomfortable? What have I procrastinated
Speaker 1: on for quite a while. I'm sure we've all got
Speaker 1: the answer to that question, and that's what you're going
Speaker 1: to start with. That is the most important thing. And
Speaker 1: the follow up question to that is, and this is
Speaker 1: what changed my life as a mum, really is if
Speaker 1: this were the only thing I accomplished today, would I
Speaker 1: be satisfied with my day? And will moving this forward
Speaker 1: make all the other to dos seem unimportant?
Speaker 4: Ah? So good? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I used to be the kind of person that
Speaker 1: just I love ticking it off, you know, it was
Speaker 1: so much more quantity over quality. And then I became
Speaker 1: a mum and realized I just wasn't really getting anything done,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I was stumbling. And this question of
Speaker 1: if this is the only thing I get done today,
Speaker 1: will I feel good? Is such a game changer because
Speaker 1: you just feel so accomplished and most uncomfortable ends up
Speaker 1: being most important and you're actually getting through the toughest
Speaker 1: shit that you'd be procrastinating on. The kind of follow
Speaker 1: up step to this is make sure you're writing it down,
Speaker 1: you know, write your to do list and rank it
Speaker 1: based on those questions. But never give yourself more than
Speaker 1: three to five things to get done in a day.
Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen. But you know, even
Speaker 1: if you just get that one thing done, the next day,
Speaker 1: you're just on to number two and you're still feeling great.
Speaker 4: Okay, Michelle, can you actually just tell me those steps again?
Speaker 1: Yes, you're going to get a pen and paper and
Speaker 1: you're going to answer the question, what is making me
Speaker 1: feel most uncomfortable? What have I procrastinated on for quite
Speaker 1: some time? Then you're going to follow up with if
Speaker 1: this were the only thing I accomplished today, would I
Speaker 1: be satisfied with my day? That is your number one thing.
Speaker 1: That's what you're starting with, and then you might still
Speaker 1: have other things on your list, but you're not going
Speaker 1: to commit to any more than three to five for
Speaker 1: a day.
Speaker 4: I feel like I want to stop recording and just
Speaker 4: go on actually start my day again and use this
Speaker 4: what Ben, Michelle, what do you think changed in terms
Speaker 4: of like the types of tasks that you found you
Speaker 4: used to do and fill your day with to what
Speaker 4: you actually work on now what's changed.
Speaker 1: Once you've got that big thing that you're going to
Speaker 1: work on, it can be hard to focus on it.
Speaker 1: So something I do, like a take on this that
Speaker 1: I've added is I almost gamify it. I guess how
Speaker 1: many thirty minute blocks is this going to take me,
Speaker 1: And let's say I pick three, I think it's going
Speaker 1: to take me an hour and a half. I'm now
Speaker 1: racing against my estimate, and it makes completing it a
Speaker 1: little bit funner because I'm like, oh, am, I on
Speaker 1: the money here with how long I think it's going
Speaker 1: to take me to achieve this task.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you're crazy. That part stresses me out.
Speaker 4: I'm definitely not doing that. But I think the thing
Speaker 4: that I love about this is this is a confession,
Speaker 4: Like I've been really struggling with this lately. So I'm
Speaker 4: in this season of my life where I've pivoted my
Speaker 4: career from a marketer to now a TikTok creator and
Speaker 4: a coach, and it's completely different. And you know, anyone
Speaker 4: listening you might be able to relate because it's like
Speaker 4: your job is kind of changing often, and so I
Speaker 4: feel like I used to be way better at this
Speaker 4: and now I'm really struggling. So I've had days where
Speaker 4: I feel paralyzed by what I'm meant to be doing.
Speaker 4: I just get in and start. I'm not procrastinating, like
Speaker 4: I'm working really hard. I'm putting in these big blocks
Speaker 4: of time, but at the end of the day, I
Speaker 4: feel frustrated and overwhelmed, and I think it comes from
Speaker 4: I'm not actually making progress on things. So I think
Speaker 4: the thing that I'm picking up here is don't just
Speaker 4: open your laptop and start working on things. Don't just
Speaker 4: open your laptop and start checking your emails. It's actually
Speaker 4: really forcing yourself. And this is just my sign and
Speaker 4: me reminding myself, really forcing yourself to spend twenty thirty
Speaker 4: minutes properly prioritizing your day and asking yourself those questions.
Speaker 4: And the one that I think just really hit me,
Speaker 4: e Michelle, is if I do this one thing, will
Speaker 4: I feel satisfied, Because like, that's what's been missing from
Speaker 4: my days and I've been feeling everyone So maybe other
Speaker 4: people can relate to that. I really I want to
Speaker 4: try it. It's not that there's not a bunch of
Speaker 4: other good stuff on your to do this. There's that
Speaker 4: really good quote by the habit expert James Clear, who
Speaker 4: a lot of people will have heard of, and the
Speaker 4: quote is, the most dangerous things on your to do
Speaker 4: list are the things that are a good use of
Speaker 4: your time, but not a great use of your time.
Speaker 4: There's lots of really good things to do, but it's
Speaker 4: actually just trying to pick the ones that are going
Speaker 4: to move the needle. So, yeah, this is your sign,
Speaker 4: everyone listening, This is your sign. I love that, Michelle,
Speaker 4: Thank you on the way.
Speaker 1: Next, we're going to change your brain chemistry by explaining
Speaker 1: why doing less is actually so hard, and we're going
Speaker 1: to share a killer script for saying no to your
Speaker 1: manager in a way that means they're not going to
Speaker 1: hate you. Okay, So we've shared my favorite productivity tip
Speaker 1: method not a hack now, so if I would love
Speaker 1: to hear yours, hit us with it.
Speaker 4: So my one thing is very simple, do less, but
Speaker 4: it's actually very hard to do. And I've been obsessed
Speaker 4: with this question for a really long time. Why the
Speaker 4: hell is it actually so hard to do less? And
Speaker 4: why do we keep piling things onto our plate all
Speaker 4: the time. So let's get a little science y because
Speaker 4: I think it actually really helps to understand the why
Speaker 4: behind the behaviors, and that's what actually creates behavior change
Speaker 4: for you. So this is an amazing study I'm going
Speaker 4: to share. It's from Professor Leedy Klott from the University
Speaker 4: of Virginia and Heed this pioneering research into why it
Speaker 4: is that we have a tendency to keep adding before
Speaker 4: taking things away. So it's this amazing study. What they
Speaker 4: did is they gave people a ridiculous travel itinery for Washington, DC.
Speaker 4: I think the words that they used was it was
Speaker 4: deliberately designed to be obnoxious. It had fourteen different things
Speaker 4: you could do across a single day. There was only
Speaker 4: a one hour break even just getting around all the
Speaker 4: different things meant there was two hours of travel time.
Speaker 4: And it had this sort of drag and drop menu
Speaker 4: for people so they could rearrange things. And they asked
Speaker 4: participants just this one question, so what would make this
Speaker 4: itinery better? Seventy five percent of people added more shit
Speaker 4: and only twenty five percent of people actually removed things
Speaker 4: from the itinery. So Professor Lady klots I mentioned he
Speaker 4: wrote a book Cloud Subtract, and in that book he
Speaker 4: calls it edition bias, as humans were actually hardwired to
Speaker 4: want to add and keep things, and it is so
Speaker 4: difficult for us to call things. So if you look
Speaker 4: at that, then Michelle in like apply that to a
Speaker 4: work context, right, it makes so much sense. So, you know,
Speaker 4: adding things, you've got something to show, but subtracting things
Speaker 4: you sort of don't. So imagine you're coming in new
Speaker 4: to a role, you really want to show that you've
Speaker 4: made your mark. It's so easy to be like, look
Speaker 4: at all these new initiatives that I've added, But subtracting
Speaker 4: things actually takes tons of work. It takes like tough
Speaker 4: conversations and negotiating and saying no, but there's not a
Speaker 4: lot to show for it at the end of the day.
Speaker 4: So in my decade plus working at Google, the only
Speaker 4: time that I ever saw teams that were properly smashing
Speaker 4: it and like they were just doing amazing work and
Speaker 4: the whole team was really happy. To the point where
Speaker 4: you're like, what is actually going on with that team,
Speaker 4: Like why are they so good? The only thing that
Speaker 4: was going on is that they were the team that
Speaker 4: was actually able to start properly saying no to things
Speaker 4: and they were just focusing on a few big things.
Speaker 1: I love this so much. And I was gonna ask,
Speaker 1: You've been an exec at Google, and so I just
Speaker 1: feel like you would have had exposure to epic leadership courses.
Speaker 1: I feel like this comes down to your manager and
Speaker 1: the best leaders not making their teams feel like you know,
Speaker 1: more and more and more is what the business is after,
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like as an employee, you'd be
Speaker 1: more inclined to want to go to your manager and
Speaker 1: look at all these things I've done. But I feel
Speaker 1: like this needs to be something that you're working out
Speaker 1: as of the relationship in the team. Like we actually
Speaker 1: pride ourselves on focusing on like the top one percent
Speaker 1: or whatever of things that are going to move the
Speaker 1: needle here.
Speaker 4: Yes, but here's the interesting thing. I think a lot
Speaker 4: of people think it's up to my manager to prioritize
Speaker 4: my work for me, and it's actually not. It's everyone's
Speaker 4: responsibility to protect not just their focus, but to protect
Speaker 4: the focus of their whole team by pushing back and
Speaker 4: saying no. So this is sort of the whole point
Speaker 4: of the thing that I'm going to share with you.
Speaker 4: Let's bring it back to our gen z and millennial
Speaker 4: friends listening today. You're sitting there thinking so how do
Speaker 4: I actually do less? How do I say no? And
Speaker 4: how do I push back? So internalize this. People are
Speaker 4: going to keep piling work on top of you until
Speaker 4: you can't take it anymore. It's not that they're trying
Speaker 4: to hurt you. It's just human nature. And I think
Speaker 4: it is harder when you're more junior because you've just
Speaker 4: got all this stuff coming down and you're not in
Speaker 4: that position to sort of be pushing back in and
Speaker 4: making big decisions. So learning to protect your focus and
Speaker 4: push back is like top three core skills that you
Speaker 4: need to learn, and it is extremely hard. But come
Speaker 4: with me. I'm going to give you one really simple
Speaker 4: thing that you can start doing today that's going to
Speaker 4: help you. So that is saying no to your manager
Speaker 4: with respect. And here's the secret. You might actually be
Speaker 4: better placed to make decisions about certain things than your
Speaker 4: manager because you are closer to the work. You're the
Speaker 4: person on the tools that you're the person in the details,
Speaker 4: and you actually know how long things take, how much time,
Speaker 4: and how much effort tasks actually take, and your manager
Speaker 4: doesn't always know that. So it's not like they're trying
Speaker 4: to overload you with tasks it's just that they don't
Speaker 4: have that information. So it's sort of your responsibility and
Speaker 4: it's in your power to push back. But it is
Speaker 4: really difficult. So you know, has this ever happened to you?
Speaker 4: Your manager says this should take about twenty minutes. It
Speaker 4: should be easy, right, and in your head you're thinking
Speaker 4: like that actually takes two to three hours. But then
Speaker 4: out loud you're like, no, worries, I can do it.
Speaker 4: What you want to do instead is you want to
Speaker 4: position it as a trade off. And that's the thing, right,
Speaker 4: It's not like the ideas and tasking your manager is
Speaker 4: giving you are bad. It's just that there's a lot
Speaker 4: of other things in your plate and everything, in a
Speaker 4: way is a trade off. So this script I'm going
Speaker 4: to share. It's from a global work expert and entrepreneur.
Speaker 4: Her name is wes Ko. I don't want to give
Speaker 4: her credit. She's brilliant and this is her favorite way
Speaker 4: to say no to a manager. And of course we're
Speaker 4: going to include this in the bus newsletter this week.
Speaker 4: Are you ready, michell?
Speaker 1: I actually can't wait for this.
Speaker 4: So imagine your manager has just like throwed another bloody
Speaker 4: idea or task at you, so thanks for the idea.
Speaker 4: I've added it to my list quick heads up. A
Speaker 4: task like this usually takes two to three hours. We
Speaker 4: had talked about prioritizing this other task because it was
Speaker 4: going to help us hit this big goal of block.
Speaker 4: I can refocus on the new task, but we'll probably
Speaker 4: need to make some trade offs, and you drop those in,
Speaker 4: for example, some other things that you're going to delay.
Speaker 4: My recommendation is that I work on the new task
Speaker 4: after the other task is done. Let me know if
Speaker 4: that sounds good or if you're thinking about it differently.
Speaker 4: And that last point is really important because you are
Speaker 4: showing respect to your manager. You know more details about
Speaker 4: the time and effort, but they might be more exposed
Speaker 4: to some of those conversations within your leadership or other
Speaker 4: types of priorities. So if they say, well, actually, yes,
Speaker 4: I do see it differently, you do need to respect
Speaker 4: them and it's a conversation. But this is a way
Speaker 4: to do it that's going to make you feel good
Speaker 4: and it's not going to feel like you're saying I'm
Speaker 4: not going to do that.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. I feel like that's going
Speaker 1: to help so many people. I love this. You know,
Speaker 1: protecting your focus wording, and I feel like this will
Speaker 1: protect people who are in the firing line of a
Speaker 1: pile on manager and like actually almost reverse coach that
Speaker 1: manager and then the managers who get this beautiful easy conversations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So I love that point. I think if
Speaker 4: you're someone who is, you know, more junior in your career,
Speaker 4: have uput empathy for your manager. They're not trying to
Speaker 4: hurt you. It's just that they often don't know how
Speaker 4: long things take. And then if you're a manager, be
Speaker 4: considerate about what you're throwing your team and also start
Speaker 4: celebrating them for pushing back and saying no to you.
Speaker 1: So in the spirit of this episode, we've got one
Speaker 1: action point each Mine is to nail your to do list.
Speaker 1: Start every day by asking yourself the question what is
Speaker 1: making me feel most uncomfortable? And will I feel satisfied
Speaker 1: if this is the only thing I get done today?
Speaker 4: And number two, protect your focus and get comfortable having
Speaker 4: no style conversations. Grab the script in the bus newsletter
Speaker 4: this week. So I'm going to leave you with a
Speaker 4: quote from Google's productivity advisor Laura may and Martin saying
Speaker 4: no good things makes room for great things, Okay.
Speaker 2: Lots to take out of that. Something that completely changed
Speaker 2: my perspective on task management was I thing that Michelle said.
Speaker 2: She said that the most dangerous items on your to
Speaker 2: do list are the ones that are a good use
Speaker 2: of your time but not a great use of your time.
Speaker 2: I immediately started rewriting my to do list while listening
Speaker 2: to this episode, which, yes, I know sounds ironic, but
Speaker 2: I promise you I'm going to tackle it the minute
Speaker 2: that this episode ends. I'm stealing inspo from that exact quote.
Speaker 2: If you enjoy today's episode of BIZ, we popped everything
Speaker 2: you need in our free newsletter, including those step by
Speaker 2: step guides for both productivity game changes we talked about today.
Speaker 2: You can find a link to that in our show
Speaker 2: notes and heads up. Our Biz Inbox episode drops this Thursday,
Speaker 2: where we solve all your career dilemmas and until then,
Speaker 2: go forth and do less the better.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on