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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by HP Australia and

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Speaker 1: their instant Ink subscription.

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Speaker 2: Everything I do anything, it's because I truly believe. If

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Speaker 2: I have to do things because I'm told to, but

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Speaker 2: I don't believe them, I become very average. I don't

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Speaker 2: react to just one information because one is an incident,

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Speaker 2: two is coincidence, three is a pattern. I was getting

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Speaker 2: to my coach and say stop telling me what I

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Speaker 2: need to improve. I spent all my life trying to

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Speaker 2: do that. I reach my limit.

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Speaker 1: Now, welcome to the seas the YA Podcast. Busy and

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Speaker 1: happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question

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Speaker 1: what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest,

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Speaker 1: but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more

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Speaker 1: than one way. So this is a platform to hear

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Speaker 1: and explore the stories of those.

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Speaker 3: Who found lives. They adore the good, bad and ugly.

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Speaker 1: The best and worst days will bear all the facets

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Speaker 1: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful

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Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits

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Speaker 1: and heels to co found Matcha Maiden and Matcha Milkbar.

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Speaker 3: Cza is a series of.

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Speaker 1: Conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the

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Speaker 1: self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Lovely neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited about this week's episode. You've probably

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Speaker 1: seen snippets here and there of our recording and filming

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Speaker 1: day for this one, but our full chat is finally

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Speaker 1: ready for your ears. As you've heard me say many times,

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Speaker 1: the thing I love the most about CZA and the

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Speaker 1: random collection of things that I get to call a

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Speaker 1: job is the people that I'm lucky enough to meet.

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Speaker 1: And one I'm still absolutely pinching myself about is today's

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Speaker 1: incredible guest, Rodrigo Pizarro, the CEO of Laureale Australia and

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. Way back in the lawyer days, if you'd

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Speaker 1: ask me what my ultimate dream job would be, I

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Speaker 1: genuinely used to say, and I have many people who

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Speaker 1: can attest to this, I would always say that I'd

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Speaker 1: love to go in house one day far into the future,

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Speaker 1: but one day I'd love to work somewhere and dynamic

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Speaker 1: like Loreal In true CZA form. Nearly ten years later,

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Speaker 1: I did actually end up getting to spend time at

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Speaker 1: Laurel HQ and to work with this amazing business across

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Speaker 1: many different projects, but just not quite in the way

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Speaker 1: I'd originally expected. And I never dreamed I would get

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Speaker 1: to whisk the CEO himself away for a whole day,

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Speaker 1: to share a day in his life with the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: And yet here we are sitting down with one of

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Speaker 1: the most interesting people I've ever chatted to, who is,

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Speaker 1: in so many different ways the opposite of what you

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Speaker 1: might expect of a high flying corporate running a traditional

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Speaker 1: heritage brand. The first time I met Rodrigo, I was

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Speaker 1: actually seated next to him at an event and was

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Speaker 1: so nervous about it, but we ended up gasbagging about

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Speaker 1: our travels and our favorite languages for hours like old friends.

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Speaker 1: From his life of working around the world to his

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Speaker 1: passion for motorcycling and then his ball tattoos to his

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Speaker 1: refusal to wear ties to the office. Rodrigo pushes the

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Speaker 1: boundaries in the best kinds of ways and continues to

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Speaker 1: lead some incredible innovations and new directions for Loril, Australia

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Speaker 1: and New Zealand that you will hear all about. One

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Speaker 1: of it you might actually remember, was the for women

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Speaker 1: in science program that we produced a podcast for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago that is still one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite projects on CZA to date. You can watch the

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Speaker 1: day in the live video on Socials, which we had

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Speaker 1: so much of funmaking that. I also hope you enjoy

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Speaker 1: getting into the nitty gritty of what a CEO actually does,

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Speaker 1: the roller coaster of a journey to get from a

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Speaker 1: product sales position all the way up the ladder, parenting, traveling,

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Speaker 1: and everything in between. A huge thank you also to

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Speaker 1: his right hand woman, Kelly vaul Armitage for making it

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Speaker 1: all happen. Ladies and gentlemen. Rodrigo Pizarro, Rodrigo bien i

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Speaker 1: ses the a benvenudo?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: What is it being being Vindo close aberdegado?

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Speaker 3: That's all I know.

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Speaker 1: I'd like that we saw the between language.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to CZA. It is so lovely to have you here.

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Speaker 1: We've actually been filming and following you for the day,

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Speaker 1: so that's been really fun.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for inviting me, and it's been

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Speaker 2: a pleasure. I think was really fun this morning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had so much fun and we got to

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Speaker 1: see a snippet of a day in your life. But

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Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled to have you here, to get a

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Speaker 1: bit more into the juice of how you got here

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Speaker 1: and the incredible stories that you have that have led

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Speaker 1: you to this point. But first I love to break

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Speaker 1: the ice by asking what the most down to earth

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Speaker 1: thing is about you? And that's because the title itself

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Speaker 1: CEO of Lrie L Australia and New Zealand is quite intimidating.

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Speaker 1: It's very fancy. Tell us something really normal about you.

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Speaker 2: I think you'd be surprised how human and approachable I am.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's going to be something in terms

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Speaker 2: of leadership, in terms of being a CEO that you

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Speaker 2: learn over the years. I was not always like that

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Speaker 2: at all, but I think that would be the most

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Speaker 2: down to earth thing that you'll see today. Anybody at

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Speaker 2: any level of the company, from empty to a director,

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Speaker 2: can approach me at any point of time, talk to me,

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Speaker 2: invite me for a coffee, have a meeting with me,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's just because of the way that

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Speaker 2: you are in life, and think that's something that it

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Speaker 2: took me sometime, but that would be certainly the one.

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Speaker 1: I think following you around the office, you can definitely

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Speaker 1: see that everyone's quite casual with you.

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Speaker 3: It's really relaxed.

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Speaker 1: You don't get the sense that, oh my god, the

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Speaker 1: CEO has just arrived. It's like hey, runs And.

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Speaker 2: You would not believe how important it is, because that's

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Speaker 2: what the termin is, what the culture or the company

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Speaker 2: is as well. If that's how I act, that conveys

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Speaker 2: to the rest of the teams. And therefore you've got

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Speaker 2: this culture which is very inclusive but also very relaxed

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Speaker 2: in a way. And I think it's so important today

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Speaker 2: because I mean, we wake up on ready with a

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Speaker 2: lot of stress. Can we find a way to go

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Speaker 2: through the day with a bit of fun and take

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Speaker 2: a bit of the stress out. So if I can

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Speaker 2: do that by myself and impacting people that way, I'll

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Speaker 2: be already very satisfied.

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Speaker 1: I also don't think many people expect the CEO to

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Speaker 1: arrive on a motorbike in leathers and to park his

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Speaker 1: bike where there is no park. Just abandon it at

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Speaker 1: the front of the building. This will do.

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Speaker 2: I'll do that. I might tease a little bit in

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Speaker 2: particular landlords when I told it I was going to

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Speaker 2: park right in front of it, But it's just because

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Speaker 2: there is a gate outside and it is really not

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Speaker 2: work with the motorbikes. So I told him, if it

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Speaker 2: doesn't work, I need to do something about it.

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Speaker 3: I'll just park Insight, your Agile, your solutions.

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Speaker 2: Right in front of it. And I've got a bet

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Speaker 2: with them that I said, one day, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: take my motorbike and park it right in my office.

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Speaker 2: So I'll take it in the lift and I'll take

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Speaker 2: a picture of it in my office and sent to

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Speaker 2: the landlord.

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Speaker 1: Well, we already asked you if the bike fits in

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Speaker 1: the lift, and you said yes in a way that

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Speaker 1: makes me think you've already taken it in.

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Speaker 2: But I've taken the measures. I'm halfway there.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll definitely get into more of you know what

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Speaker 1: we saw today about even the way that you dress

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Speaker 1: in the office and how you approach things is so

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Speaker 1: refreshing and I think quite surprising because most people don't.

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Speaker 3: Get to shadow you for a day.

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Speaker 1: But I would love to start with your way toa

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Speaker 1: and that pretty much means tracing back from your childhood

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Speaker 1: and your first dreams of what you've become and really

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Speaker 1: following through all the dots that needed to connect for

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Speaker 1: you to end up here today. Because I think if

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Speaker 1: we meet you now, it's really easy to assume he was.

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Speaker 3: Born as CEO.

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Speaker 1: You knew that you'd end up, you know, in sc

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Speaker 1: suite position. But I think really a lot of things

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Speaker 1: have to converge in life to get you to where

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Speaker 1: you are, and it's often quite surprising. So can you

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Speaker 1: take us back to your childhood? Talk us through you know,

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Speaker 1: what your first jobs were, what you thought you would be,

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Speaker 1: your big dreams, and what you're like as a kid.

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Speaker 2: I can certainly do that. Do you have two hours

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Speaker 2: about it? Short?

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Speaker 3: We should have put aside.

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Speaker 2: Like a I will take you through that because I

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Speaker 2: think it is by knowing all of that that you

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Speaker 2: understand who I am. And in fact I'm Portuguese. But

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Speaker 2: I was born in Africa, in Angola, which at the

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Speaker 2: time was a colony for Portugal, and my parents were there.

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Speaker 2: My father was in the army. My mother was working

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Speaker 2: in a company which was run by a father, and

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Speaker 2: they met there because my father, after the army, went

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Speaker 2: to work in that company. And I don't have any recognition,

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Speaker 2: any memories of my first eight years of my life,

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Speaker 2: and the reason being that at eight years old I

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Speaker 2: had to leave hiding underneath in the bottom of the

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Speaker 2: car because there was a civil war going on at

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Speaker 2: the time. You know, it was the time of an

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Speaker 2: independence for Angola and there's a civil war. So I

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Speaker 2: had to escape the country with my mom and my

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Speaker 2: sister and we really literally hiding in the car, and

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Speaker 2: definitely that caused the trauma for me. And so I've

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Speaker 2: got no recollection today of those eight years. I can

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Speaker 2: only tell you I in my mind, I have exactly

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Speaker 2: how the inside of my house was once I stepped

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Speaker 2: one side, I opened that door. I can't figure out

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Speaker 2: anything else. School, nothing, no memories, nothing, zero memoris. Accept

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Speaker 2: the floor plan of my house. That's the only memory

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Speaker 2: I have from those first eight years. And you know,

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Speaker 2: all those things impact your life one way or the other.

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Speaker 2: So then I did my youth, my teenagers, and my

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Speaker 2: all my education in Portugal, where I was until I

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Speaker 2: was twenty eight. So I died in Lorel in Portugal

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty five twenty six, and then just

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Speaker 2: later on I moved to France, to the headquarters of

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Speaker 2: Lorel At the time, in nineteen ninety seven. It was

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Speaker 2: pretty tough because I didn't speak French at the time.

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Speaker 2: I do now, but I didn't speak French at the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, the headquarters were very Frenchy and very crazy,

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Speaker 2: so it was very difficult to There was not diversity

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Speaker 2: at the time, there was no inclusion, so it's very

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Speaker 2: difficult to be there. And Paris was very difficult at

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Speaker 2: that time as well. But then from there I went

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Speaker 2: to Latin America. I worked in Brazil, I worked in

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Speaker 2: Venezuela twice. I was in Hungary, I went back to

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Speaker 2: Portugal and affected today including Australia. Of course, I've lived

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Speaker 2: in six countries. I've worked in six countries, four continents.

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Speaker 2: That's what gives me all the insights, and that changes

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Speaker 2: dramatically those opportunities of life. By knowing so many things culturally,

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Speaker 2: really gives me a lot of insights. It gives a

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Speaker 2: lot of ability for me to understand people and to

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Speaker 2: work with people. And I think I could definitely not

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Speaker 2: do my job today as I do it. I could

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Speaker 2: definitely not have that culture of inclusion, of diversity, of

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Speaker 2: proximity in the company. Have I not had all that

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Speaker 2: experience for the former people point of view, From a

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Speaker 2: culture point of view, gives me a lot more baggage

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Speaker 2: that luggage baggage. Yeah, bluggage in terms of that's what

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Speaker 2: I am. Yeah, that's really what I am. It's really

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Speaker 2: a skill set. You cannot have that when you're just

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Speaker 2: in one country. I'm pretty sure of that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: been an absolute privilege to be able to work closely

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Speaker 1: with Loreal Australia and New Zealand and to be you know,

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Speaker 1: to I've spent any time with you, let alone as

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Speaker 1: much time as I've been able to spend with you.

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Speaker 1: And I think the very first thing when Kelly who

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Speaker 1: I have to give a big shout out to your

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Speaker 1: right hand woman and who's in the room right now,

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Speaker 1: who is just such a wonderful representative for the brand,

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Speaker 1: placed us next to each other at the for Women

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Speaker 1: in Science, which I definitely want to get into the

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Speaker 1: for Women in Science dinner and being someone who's fascinated

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Speaker 1: in pathways and travel and languages and cultures and people

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Speaker 1: and what excites people and what helps get the best

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Speaker 1: out of people and corporate culture and everything you know

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Speaker 1: about storytelling. Remember I just couldn't. I was like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: no more. Tell me where you were born, tell me

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Speaker 1: what happened when did you go the next like, what

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Speaker 1: language is your favorite? Which country is your favorite? And

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Speaker 1: I think that already what you've told us, which is

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Speaker 1: just skating the surface, is not what you would expect

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Speaker 1: from the CEO of a company like Laurel.

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Speaker 3: You know, you just wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Expect that you had fled civil war in your first

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Speaker 1: eight years and have no memory. I think that's so fascinating,

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Speaker 1: and it's not what gets the most airtime necessarily when

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Speaker 1: you do interviews.

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Speaker 3: So it's a privilege to hear this.

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Speaker 2: From No, it's definitely not what we're talking about. But

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Speaker 2: I've got plenty of weather, really deep experience and some

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Speaker 2: of them not very nice experience. That again, each one

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Speaker 2: of them builds who you are and so and I've

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Speaker 2: learned so much about some of these experience. I was

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Speaker 2: so lucky to survive some of those experience because some

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Speaker 2: of them were really hardcore. Then builds who you are

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Speaker 2: and that really helps you develop as a person. And

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Speaker 2: throughout my career, there's a lot of moments where I

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Speaker 2: was working in organizations where people depending on me, you know,

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Speaker 2: back the the day when I was in Venezuela. Venezuela

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Speaker 2: is a detector ship today, although they don't say it,

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Speaker 2: there were three hundred people which depended on me to

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Speaker 2: have a job. So it's just not being a leader

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Speaker 2: and doing business. Is that at the time it was

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Speaker 2: very difficult for Lorel to keep that subsidiary open, and

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Speaker 2: just by doing that throughout three years and then preparing

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Speaker 2: it structurally to be open even in the future, I

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Speaker 2: was guaranteeing jobs for those people. So the connection that

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Speaker 2: you build with those people, it becomes way beyond professional

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Speaker 2: because it's unavoidable. You know, the recognition they have in

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Speaker 2: terms of the efforts that you've put it becomes something

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Speaker 2: very very personal. So I think from all the countries

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Speaker 2: I've been those other days where I recall that people

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Speaker 2: were really appreciating when I left, they really appreciated what

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Speaker 2: I did for them as individuals more than just for

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Speaker 2: the professionals. That is so powerful. You know, when you

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Speaker 2: have people saying, you know, writing things to you which

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Speaker 2: are so strong about thanking you what you've done for them,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's nothing. I mean, there's never any other

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Speaker 2: recognition of results or business results that can help that.

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Speaker 2: That's what is your important in your life.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why You've just done so much

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Speaker 1: in the roles that you have, because your measurement for

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Speaker 1: success isn't only a financial or a numbers game. It's

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Speaker 1: always people and impact and legacy and having that kind

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Speaker 1: of response in the people around you. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to that, one of the things I want to

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Speaker 1: ask is you seem so born to be a leader,

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Speaker 1: Like the way you speak about harnessing people and the

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Speaker 1: experiences you've had, and why that allows you to do

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Speaker 1: what you do now. I think it's hard to imagine

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Speaker 1: you in your twenties, you know, joining Lorel for the

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Speaker 1: first time as a product manager for hair care or

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Speaker 1: hair color, of course hair color, and now seeing you

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Speaker 1: speak like you understand every part of the chain, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you were telling us in the office about

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Speaker 1: the light that had been in store, specifically so that

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Speaker 1: the colorists could tell the right color for natural light.

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Speaker 1: All of these kinds of things. It's hard to imagine

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Speaker 1: that you know all that stuff because you started at

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Speaker 1: an entry level position so many years ago. It's fresh

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Speaker 1: out of what Lisbon School of economics. What at that

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Speaker 1: point in your life did you think you wanted to

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Speaker 1: be Did you ever envision that you would get here.

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Speaker 1: What did you hope to get out of your life?

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Speaker 1: Did you think you were going to be in product?

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Speaker 1: Do you think you were going to be in? People

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Speaker 1: like I always wonder what were your childlike dreams for yourself.

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Speaker 2: I never had really a dream to be in the

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Speaker 2: position I have now. I always had dreams, and I

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Speaker 2: always followed my dreams. But my dreams were not ten

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Speaker 2: years down the road. My dreams were two or three

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Speaker 2: years down the road. So I wanted to know what

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Speaker 2: I was going to be next because I could see it,

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Speaker 2: and then I wanted to achieve it. I did have

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Speaker 2: a dream because my father did have some positions of

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Speaker 2: leadership in terms of commercial or positions in organization, so

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Speaker 2: I wanted to follow him somehow. And I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a super close relationship with my father, but I really,

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Speaker 2: in a way, I want to be what it was.

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Speaker 2: So there was a lot of things that I got

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Speaker 2: from him, but I think it was just every time

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Speaker 2: really wanted to be myself, because I mean, there's so

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Speaker 2: many moments in my life that could have gone wrong

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to be really powerfully just achieving what

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Speaker 2: I wanted to achieve. But I always thought the next

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Speaker 2: step never two steps ahead. I think things have to

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Speaker 2: be taking really precautions and I think sometimes you need

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Speaker 2: to know when you're ready for a next step. And

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Speaker 2: so although I dreamed maybe a bit down the road,

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Speaker 2: maybe sometimes when I started the corporate life, I dreamed

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Speaker 2: of being the director while I was still far away

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Speaker 2: from that. Maybe I have dreamed to be a CEO,

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Speaker 2: but it was just a dream. You know, the dream

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Speaker 2: is the dream is down the track, but you're just

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Speaker 2: thinking how to I achieve that in the next couple

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Speaker 2: of years. So, but I always wanted to when I

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Speaker 2: was an assistant product manager. Then I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a project manager and I thought, now I can be

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Speaker 2: group prodram managers because I was seeing who were doing

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Speaker 2: it what they were doing, and I said, I definitely

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Speaker 2: can't do that as well. And then I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a marketing director, and then from there I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a manager director of the business unit. It

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Speaker 2: was always very very when I found out that I

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Speaker 2: know that they have the abilities and the skills to

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Speaker 2: do that job, because otherwise the dream is just a dream.

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Speaker 2: But you need to be sure, particularly in a global corporation,

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Speaker 2: that you can do it because you're still measured by

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Speaker 2: success by KPIs. So that was really this vision, the

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Speaker 2: mix of division that I have division coming from my father,

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Speaker 2: a bit of dream but very very objective as well,

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Speaker 2: and knowing what can I achieve and how far can

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Speaker 2: I can I go? So I think that's how I

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Speaker 2: took it to every step until I got here.

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Speaker 1: I hammer on about on this show about the idea

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Speaker 1: that you do always have to have big dreams and

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Speaker 1: vision boards and you know know eventually where you want

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Speaker 1: to kind of end up, but that you don't have

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Speaker 1: to climb the whole staircase.

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Speaker 3: You just have to take the next step.

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Speaker 1: And I love that you know, we have these macro dreams,

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Speaker 1: but really all that matters is the next step. Like

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Speaker 1: I love that you went, Okay, I've done this, I

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Speaker 1: want to be manager of this department and then manager

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Speaker 1: of the next apartment. You don't kind of get to

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Speaker 1: CEO in one step. You have to take all the

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Speaker 1: little steps along the way. And I love that you

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Speaker 1: broke it down that way because I think we get

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Speaker 1: really overwhelmed at the end game and think I'm never

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Speaker 1: going to get there, and it's like you don't have

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Speaker 1: to get there tomorrow. You just have to get here,

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Speaker 1: and then here and then here. It's like one step

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Speaker 1: at a time is how most people build their careers.

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Speaker 1: They don't get too overwhelmed by the ten year plan.

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Speaker 1: Often it's just focus on the two year plan and

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Speaker 1: then there'll be another two year plan and another two

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Speaker 1: year plan.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to do it all at once, and

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Speaker 2: down through that path for whatever you want to do

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Speaker 2: being happy. I have so many people today that ask

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Speaker 2: me what is really important. I say, man, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if getting to where I am is really what

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Speaker 2: you want to do, provided that you're happy, yes, But

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Speaker 2: if you're happy at doing something else, and that's where

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Speaker 2: it should be because that's so important. Too often we

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Speaker 2: get to jobs and we are not happy in doing them.

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Speaker 2: We see so many people doing jobs they're not happy

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Speaker 2: about that. So that's when I got to Australia. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I incorporated. One of the valors was fun, because you

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Speaker 2: need to be happy what you're doing. You need to

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Speaker 2: have fun whatever you're doing, even if it is a business.

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Speaker 2: You can't do anything in life without that component. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's really important that we keep that as well.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time, not every time, but most of

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Speaker 2: the time I was happy, and whenever I was not happy,

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Speaker 2: I was clear that I had to create happiness in

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Speaker 2: the job I was having, or I had to change,

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Speaker 2: or I had to leave. But I cannot work without

401
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Speaker 2: that happiness. So I was always pushing in terms of

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Speaker 2: what I wanted in such job. And I've always been

403
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Speaker 2: a bit of rebel, pushing boundaries. Yes, that's because surprising.

404
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Speaker 2: That's because I'm looking for my own happiness, and my

405
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 2: happiness is about achieving things, about changing things, about changing

406
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Speaker 2: so many predimas that there are there so many status

407
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Speaker 2: quothes that you have to push, and that what brings

408
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Speaker 2: me happiness when I have the legacy is about that,

409
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Speaker 2: about achieving a lot of things, and most of them,

410
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Speaker 2: as I told you before, not related to results, which

411
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Speaker 2: are financial kepis. They are part of it, but they

412
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 2: are more a consequence than the origin today and that

413
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 2: has changed dramatically throughout my thirty years of career in Laurel.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying that you have to seize your yea

415
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Speaker 1: is It's like the perfect SoundBite for this entire right.

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Speaker 1: We can end now, That's all I needed from you.

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Speaker 2: It is it is, But I think you know, I

418
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Speaker 2: think it's a journey, and I've taken that journey as

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Speaker 2: an individual. I'm not sure that everybody gets there, but

420
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Speaker 2: impacts you very much. So today what I'm doing in

421
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Speaker 2: life and what I want from life, even in my job,

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Speaker 2: is about impacting people and impacting people in a positive way,

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Speaker 2: because I have to realize that my role by itself,

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Speaker 2: every time I talk to people, I'm impacting them. So

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Speaker 2: I need to be conscious about what I'm doing that

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Speaker 2: and how I'm doing that, and therefore creating and positive

427
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Speaker 2: impacting everybody I can, and the positive impact is more

428
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Speaker 2: important for me today than any financial business results. But

429
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Speaker 2: I still have to do them because if I don't

430
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Speaker 2: have the financial business results, I will not have a job,

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Speaker 2: and therefore I cannot impact people. So of course I'm

432
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Speaker 2: smart enough to understand that, but I've just changed the

433
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Speaker 2: equation people first, impacting people in the business, beyond the business,

434
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Speaker 2: my friends, everybody else, and then down the track. The

435
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Speaker 2: results always come when you do that focus. I thought

436
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Speaker 2: that's really very important for me today.

437
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: I want to ask in each of those steps, you

438
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 1: mentioned that you're often pushing the boundaries, and you were

439
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: pushy for what you wanted and you knew when you've

440
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 1: obviously moved countries and jurisdictions and gone really upwards in

441
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 1: a chain within a huge cooperation. And I think one

442
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: of the really hard things for people who were in

443
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 1: an earlier part of their journey to you, who maybe

444
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: envisioned themselves being a CEO one day, is putting yourself

445
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: forward for things. There's a huge amount of fear about

446
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 1: looking silly if you fail. There's imposter syndrome of am

447
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: I good enough? Like you mentioned, you have to know

448
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: that you're able to do the next step, there's burnout

449
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: along the way. Were there any challenges for you? And

450
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,360
Speaker 1: I talk about this often with women on the show,

451
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,639
Speaker 1: but I'd be really interested to see from a male

452
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 1: perspective when you were applying for each new role or

453
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,360
Speaker 1: looking to make a big jump up the ladder, did

454
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: you ever have feelings of am I good enough?

455
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:57,479
Speaker 2: For? This?

456
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: Was self doubt ever a part of the equation, like

457
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: the fear of rejection or the fear of or actual rejection,

458
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: Like did that ever? How did that play out for

459
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: you in taking all these steps to get here, especially

460
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: at the CEO level, when you were going for that role.

461
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying not to be arrogant with death. No,

462
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 2: it's not arrogant and no, but by my answer saying

463
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 2: I've never feared of what I was going to do,

464
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 2: I was never afraid of it and never thought I

465
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: could not do it. But there were moments in my

466
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: life while being in the job when I had some doubts.

467
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: There were some moments because sometimes people are challenging you

468
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: and you have some doubts, and I think if you

469
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: don't have any doubts throughout your own life, career, or

470
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: whatever you do, then there's something wrong with you. There

471
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: has to be moments of doubts. Most times I didn't

472
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 2: think about it. I think it's just about courage as well.

473
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 2: And courage is very funny because I mean, I'm very

474
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: courageous at what I do in my job. I'm very

475
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: courageous as you know, riding autobikes very fast, but I

476
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 2: hate roller coasters. I cannot stand them. Really. Courage and

477
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 2: fear for each one of us quite different in the

478
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: ways to approach it, and so sometimes it's going to

479
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: be you can be courageous in something and then you're

480
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: going to be completely freaking out with something which you

481
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 2: think Wow, how is it possible? But that's the truth

482
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: because we all are different. So in my approach to

483
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: business and to the new challenge I had, I was

484
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: always very courageous. I was always very courageous to speak out.

485
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 2: I was always very courageous to believe in myself, believe

486
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: in my intuition and knowing that I was doing it well,

487
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 2: and then I always had the chance that and the

488
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: luck that effectively, whenever I did something which was quite different,

489
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: the results were very good. And that's very powerful because

490
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: that's where you can prove that, yes, you're doing so.

491
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: I think there's no other way they have to prove

492
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: by that. The proof of concept is really important. So

493
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: each time you can become more sure about yourself and

494
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 2: you get to the point where I told you again

495
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: this morning saying I've got this now ability of really

496
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: balance between intuition and data driven. I've built the organization

497
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 2: to be extremudated even but were still a beautiful marketing company.

498
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: And a lot of it's about intuition, and where tuition

499
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: becomes even more powerful is about people. People you know.

500
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: You can interview as much as you want, but you'll

501
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: never find out about how people are so the best

502
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 2: you can rely on is pure intuition in getting the

503
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: right people, people which have the same values as you.

504
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: People have the values that you want in the organization,

505
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: and by doing that, that's where success comes as well.

506
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 2: And so it's just getting the right people, not just

507
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: individual skin sets, but the ability to work as a

508
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: group as well. And for that you need generosity. For that,

509
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: you need pro even selflessness, because you need completely to

510
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: change the way you are in a world in business

511
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: which is mainly selfish. So that journey is my personal

512
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: journey as well. I'm sure that when I was young,

513
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: I was a bit selfish, and then I know my

514
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: first roles as leader were probably not the best, and

515
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: I recognize that today. And I've always tried to learn

516
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: and improve everything I do in life, personally and professional

517
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 2: because things just cross. And so now I'm trying to

518
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: to push this intuition based talent people based view in

519
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: the company and push it very forward. And I do

520
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: it everything I do, and sometimes I annoy a lot

521
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: of people by doing that. And it's interesting because you

522
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: annoy because whenever you're trying to get out of your

523
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 2: comfort zone and the status quo, you are pushing in

524
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 2: one direction that most people cannot see. So it is

525
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: annoying for you because people are being challenged and now

526
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: they sometimes they're very conservative or they don't believe in

527
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 2: what you're doing. So every time you try to push

528
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: status quo, you have to understand that you are envisioning

529
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: something that probably nobody else is. So it's how hard

530
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: it is. You know, you want to sell something to someone,

531
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: but they're still not ready to buy it. They can't

532
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: understand it a lot of times, so you need to

533
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: get on this journey of pushing pull. You need to

534
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: sell the dream to them, you need to sell your

535
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: vision to them. Then you have to go back and

536
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 2: bring them in the vision because sometimes they're not on board.

537
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: Then you have to push forward again and they have

538
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: to bring them. It's a completely different exercise that I've

539
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: learned to do over the years to really try to

540
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: develop an organization which is really extremely progressive and were

541
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries all the time, but at the same

542
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 2: time getting all these people on board. Because we've got

543
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: over a thousand people working with us today, all different individuals,

544
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: it is really hard to get all them to really

545
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: follow you. Some will do it initially, some will do

546
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: it a bit later. It is an incredible journey. It's very,

547
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: very difficult to everybody on board video. So this is

548
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: abilities that you develop over the years and then change

549
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: the way that you operate, and unfortunate enough that today

550
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: I think we operate quite well in that space.

551
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 3: I think you do an incredible job of it.

552
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: And I love the description of that push pull idea

553
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: because I think in everything that you do, whether it's

554
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: in a really small scale in your immediate sphere of influence,

555
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: or whether it's as a CEO of a big company,

556
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: it's always a balance between pushing people into a small

557
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: amount of discomfort to try something new, because you'll never

558
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: progress without discomfort and push back, but also not going

559
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 1: so far that you know, there are many people I've

560
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: seen who are just ahead of their time and it's

561
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: too far ahead. And it's always that fine balance of

562
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: it's a heritage brand. You need to please the people

563
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: who have been with you forever, but also keep with

564
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: the times. And I don't envy the position of a

565
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: CEO in doing that. But I also think another thing

566
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: that I find really interesting is that because you don't

567
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: experience self doubt in the way that is quite common

568
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: in you know, a lot of people's common answer in

569
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: big roles, particularly women, is I felt imposter syndrome, I

570
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: felt self doubt and the absence of self doubt is

571
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: often interpreted as arrogance, whereas I don't think that you

572
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: even needed to apologize for that. I think it's a

573
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: quality that actually helps you in your role to be

574
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: courageous and to take risks, and that's allowed you to

575
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: then do with Loreal Australia and New Zealand things that

576
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: no one else has been able to do. So I mean,

577
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: moving into the role you've got now, have you? Is

578
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: there anything that you're especially proud of that was really

579
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: hard to get over the line? Like Lorel is so inclusive,

580
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,239
Speaker 1: so diverse, has so much you know, pride, parapnali are

581
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: in the office, like things that you know, ten years

582
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: ago it would have been not as welcome and not

583
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: as kind of easy to do. What other things you've

584
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: done in your time that you're especially proud of, Well.

585
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: I hope there's quite a few of them, because it's

586
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: been quite a lot of years I've been in a company.

587
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes even certain things that you might

588
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: not think about because you will assume that it's always

589
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 2: been the case in Laurel. We're not that easy. Today.

590
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 2: We've got a majority of women in our management committee,

591
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: executive committee, whatever we want to call it. There is

592
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: nine women, five men. And you assume, because we have

593
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: a majority of women anyway, because seventy percent of our

594
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: employees are women, that would be you must. But in fact,

595
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: it was not until a few years back that we

596
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: could achieve that. And I think if I remember, well,

597
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: Australia was the first country in the world to achieve

598
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: it probably five years ago, and now has been always

599
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: the case. And you figure out how you really have

600
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: to create all the conditions to do that, because I'm

601
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: not a person that's going to choose women just because

602
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: I won't to pay that criteria met I need to

603
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: create the condition for really pure diversity and equality within

604
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: the company. So it means that you have to work

605
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: in terms of making sure that women who go in

606
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: parent or leave, they can come back and incorporate and

607
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: don't lose time. You need to work in making sure

608
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: that men do that job as well so that women

609
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: can come back. You need to work to make sure

610
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: that all promotions, training, everything is really equal, that pay

611
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: is equal. There's so many components of it to make

612
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: sure that it happens. So once you achieve it, and

613
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: then you achieve it in year after year after year,

614
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 2: you still have ancredible balance. Sometimes we'll have a few

615
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: more women, sometimes a few more men, it doesn't matter.

616
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: What we've now proven over the years is that the

617
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: system works. There is really an equal opportunity for men

618
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: and women even but if we go even beyond gender,

619
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: for anybody from any origin, any culture, any orientation can

620
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: reach the top of the company, and we have them

621
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: all today. I think that is one of the biggest

622
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 2: legacies because it seems when you reached it's so easy,

623
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: and yet it's so complex. It's so many years in

624
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: the build to get there. So I'm just focused on

625
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: one because I think that's one that you might just

626
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: take is really very obvious in a given yeah, and

627
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: it's way far from that, and it's still not the

628
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: case in a lot of aspect even to be fair,

629
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: even our global board is still not at that level.

630
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: So it is very complex, It takes a lot of years,

631
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: and it takes a huge amount of consistence. So I

632
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: think I'll just focus on that one because it's really

633
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: one that I'm extremely proud of, and last time we

634
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: met and for women in science, we're talking about it,

635
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: and for me it makes me proud in particularly because

636
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: having a little daughter at thirteen years old, it makes

637
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: a difference. I know our heart. I saw it happening

638
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: throughout my years in the business, so it is so

639
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: important for me that the reality she's going to find

640
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: is dramatically different from what I found the first time

641
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: I joined the company, and regardless of company, because Loreal

642
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: has always been really very good at it, but the

643
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: world that she's going to experience, if I can do

644
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: any think to make a world a bit more equal,

645
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: then I'm sure going to try, because I'm sure that

646
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: she's got incredible skills. She's an amazing young girl, and

647
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that she has all the

648
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: chances and there's going to be no barriers that she

649
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: cannot overcome. And I think that's what she is now already.

650
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: She's very very strong. So I've got always that in mind.

651
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: So I work for equality, not because it's a tick

652
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: that I have to do in my business, is because

653
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: I do really believe in it, and that makes the

654
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: difference everything I do, anything it's because I truly believe.

655
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: When I believe in things, IM extraordinary doing things. And

656
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: apologies if I sound a bit arrogant, but I can

657
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: be very good at do things. If I have to

658
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: do things because I'm told to but I don't believe them,

659
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: I become very average.

660
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: Oh really interesting.

661
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly the difference. Because I'm a passionate person and

662
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: I cannot be passion I can. I have passion without belief,

663
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: and without those too, I'm no better anybody else. If

664
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: I get told every time what to do, I will

665
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: not be good at my job and I will not

666
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: be any better than anybody else. So I need this

667
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: incredible freedom, which is in a word that really represents

668
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: everything for me. I need this freedom to operate in

669
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: this risk zone, in this challenging zone, in this progressive zone.

670
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: When I'm trying things that nobody else is, I do

671
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: take a lot of risks, but also because I don't

672
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 2: know fear, but also because I've got no problem in

673
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: admitting the error.

674
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: Which is really portrable.

675
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: Because when you're talking about people which they are self

676
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: esteem is strong or not, then people can think they

677
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: can do that. It's a lot of times people cannot

678
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: assume that there is a mistake and what's going to happen.

679
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: And I've got no problem. We have to do mistakes,

680
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: we have to do some errors. You're going to learn

681
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: from that. And I believe that you know you're going

682
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: to do it and you're going to still improve. So

683
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid of doing them and sometimes saying yeah,

684
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: got it wrong, that's it, and not over thinking about

685
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: getting it wrong. Just move on, Just move on.

686
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you approach what you might perceive as

687
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: a failure. I think there's really a choice to see

688
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: it as you either win or you learn. But then

689
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: there's a third option, which is that you, yeah, get

690
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: overcome that, you get consumed by the failure, and then

691
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people wallow in it and then can't

692
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: move on from it.

693
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: But are you very I'm very trick to move on

694
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: in most things. But it does not mean they just

695
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: just forget. Yeah, in certain moments when there was really

696
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: an impact and I really got it wrong, I just

697
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: take it on board so that they improve the next time.

698
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: But I don't get it stuck in my mind, and

699
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: I need to keep on moving, you know. That's how

700
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: I operate all the time. I'm very fast in the

701
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: way that I operate, so I'm already thinking of the

702
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: next thing. And in fact, the more I get it wrong,

703
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: the more I wanted to do it again to improve

704
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: it as a motivation. And Kelly would know this because

705
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the times that I did a podcast,

706
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: I was really not satisfied with the way I did it.

707
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: I thought I did not come up on well and everything,

708
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: and so initially I said I don't want to do anymore,

709
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: and just afterwards I went back to Kelly says no, no, no,

710
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: I want to do another one. I mean, what I

711
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: wanted to make sure is that I'm better because I'm

712
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: very self demanding as well. I've got high standards. So

713
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: that's the way I do things. You know, got it wrong, Yeah,

714
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: I've got a bit of a moment of douk. Yes,

715
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: I do, like anybody else. But then I move forward.

716
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that I'm going to use

717
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: all that I've learned, all that I think was wrong,

718
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: and I'm going to improve and I'm going to make

719
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: it right.

720
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: Lovely Neighborhood.

721
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: Just a quick break to sing the praises of our

722
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: partner NYA. This week the amazing team at HP Australia.

723
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: For my fellow business owners, we all know how stressful

724
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: running a business can be, and even more so at

725
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: tax time, so who has time to deal with then

726
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: ata of printer problems and running out of ink like

727
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: what a buzzkill. Thankfully we don't have to deal with

728
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: this problem anymore, which is say not only our business

729
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: but our marriage. Working together is a fascinating journey. By

730
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: pairing our HP printer out with an instant ink subscription. Honestly,

731
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: printing has never been so smart when our Ink Tona

732
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: levels are getting low and new cartridge is automatically shipped

733
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: before we even need it, so you never run out.

734
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: Recycling is also included. Plus you can save up to

735
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: fifty percent on Ink and Tona this way it will

736
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: revolutionize your business. I'll pop the link to more info

737
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: in the show notes and by the way, you are

738
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: welcome now.

739
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: Back to the show.

740
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: I think one of the coolest things that surprised me

741
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: about meeting you and getting to spend time with you

742
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: is a that I got access to you at all.

743
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: Because you do put so much time into meeting new

744
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: people and having conversations, and you turn up to the events.

745
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: You don't just send Kelly like you're there all the time.

746
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: You're on the floor, you're walking the holes of the building.

747
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: I was quite surprised that there is someone as forward

748
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: thinking who really likes to push the boundaries in a

749
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: company that is as heritage as Lorel And it's been

750
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: really amazing to see that you do lead very much

751
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: from the to down. Like you say that you will,

752
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, have a really flexible workplace, and then you

753
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: do do that. You take that flexibility for yourself. It's

754
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: not sort of like everyone can be flexible, but you're

755
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: there from five am to ten pm or I love

756
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: that you do a lead by example, and I want

757
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: to get into that because I think one of the

758
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: cool things about getting to sit down with you is

759
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: to pick your brain about what you do every day,

760
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: because again most people don't know that either. But first,

761
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: I just want to touch quickly back on not necessarily

762
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: experiencing self doubt but along the way on your journey.

763
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: There are three parts to this question, and they're just

764
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: because I'm fascinated in it. Have you ever experienced doubt

765
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: externally on your way up? Because we've had a conversation

766
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: before about how you turn up to some CEO meetings,

767
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: you don't have a tie, your tattoos are showing. You

768
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: turn up in your motorbike gear. So that's one kind

769
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: of thing to people ever underestimate you because you're more relaxed.

770
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: Number two, do they ever question you being a male

771
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: in a beauty company and having been your whole career

772
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: in a beauty company.

773
00:35:59,480 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 3: As a male?

774
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: And the other one was have you ever been underestimated

775
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: because you have an accent?

776
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: I've been in certain moments more than underestimated. I felt

777
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: a little bit discriminated. And it's important that I felt

778
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: it as well, because by being discriminated, or at least

779
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: feeling that I was discriminated in certain moments, it gives

780
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: me more ability to understand people which are really discriminated

781
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: and being women or any other minority. So I think

782
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: it's a good exercise sometimes that you are going through

783
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: that as well, because you learn from it. When you

784
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: experience something your own skin is much easier to understand

785
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: and than just when you think about it. So moments

786
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 2: like you said that, I go to certain environments where

787
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: I'm in a T shirt and my tattoos and the

788
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: old environment is blue, jackets and blue suits. Yeah, but

789
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: I mean I feel the discrimination initially, but I really

790
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: ignore it. I don't care, and so I'm just there

791
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: and say deal with it, and if you don't want

792
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: to invite me, don't invite me. Yeah, but I think

793
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: that's afterwards the way I am. Only I look like that,

794
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: but then I act like that as well, which I'm

795
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: going to always be very edging my thoughts, and I

796
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 2: think I change things around because eventually people have to

797
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: deal with me, and they end up asking me to

798
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 2: go there because I'm the one who's going to be

799
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: edged to ask questions and make the comments and nobody

800
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: else is going to do. And you go out from

801
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: an environment which is a very standard environment with normal questions,

802
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: and then there is drig who is going to really

803
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: put it out there. And every time I participate in

804
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: a luncheon a meeting of CEOs, I'm going to be

805
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 2: doing that. I'm going to be saying, well, what about

806
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: if we take just a lead bit further our discussion

807
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: and our ideas and go to where you really not

808
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: comfortable about talking about? What about we really talk about

809
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: things that even I don't know the answer, but I

810
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 2: really would like to ask these questions, and so many

811
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: moments I do that that people ultimately they like that

812
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: because that's what brings evolution, that's what bring a good

813
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: discussion to the table. But I think it's not always

814
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: something which is comfortable, and there's some moments where there

815
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: might be a bit more impactful for me, but ultimately

816
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: it's something that's, as I said before, in a lot

817
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: of the moment of risk and courage and everything. I

818
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: don't get stuck in it. Guys, I'm my T shirt.

819
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: That's how I dress. You don't like me, you don't

820
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: invite me. If you invite me, know that I'm going

821
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: to come with my T shirt. If you didn't know before,

822
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: you've seen my interview in the press, and you saw

823
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: my motorbike. So just guys, get used to it. And

824
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: so I think it's really important that we really don't

825
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: get stuck in those things. But again, it is important

826
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: that gives me the ability to understand other moments where

827
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: there's some minorities, whatever they are, they can feel discriminated,

828
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: and then it helps me make sure that we are

829
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: not judging people, we're not discriminating, and we have a

830
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: natural bias by definition, even if we don't think and

831
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: we say we don't. So it's important that we get

832
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: to the process of am I having a bias? Am

833
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: I having a bias? And just I'm out discriminating. I

834
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: think it's really important that we do that because ultimately

835
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: we all have one. But I overcome that very easily,

836
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 2: and to be honest, I think that's something again which

837
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: come over the years. And let me just tell you

838
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: that when I was young, I was extremely introvert, no

839
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 2: extremely introvert. If you would see me as a teenager

840
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: in a nightclub, I was the guy that would have

841
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: a really difficulty going to talk to any girl doing

842
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: anything I do. I was the most introverted guy. I

843
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 2: believe me. I highly introvert until probably my mid twenties.

844
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: And so I think we can all overcome our own

845
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: doubts and we can change dramatically in the way that

846
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: we are. And I'm not an introvert anymore, I know.

847
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: I it's not the word the first word that comes

848
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: to mind, but it's really.

849
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 2: Interesting because I mean, that's a dramatic change throughout your life.

850
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: I think people don't always change like that.

851
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: But it's also something that I think in a lot

852
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: of people if they identified as an introvert, they would

853
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: silo themselves and think I could never be a CEO.

854
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: They would assume that it was mutually exclusive. They wouldn't

855
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: necessarily believe they could train themselves out of that. And

856
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: I think you've said both things in one sentence. That

857
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: you don't change for anyone, but then you have changed

858
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: dramatically from yourself, and I think it's that's the beauty

859
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: of life, is the ability to stick to the things

860
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: that really matter to you. Many people would walk into

861
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: a room of blue and want to fit in. They

862
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: would tone down their difference. They'd put on the suit

863
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't want to, you know, cause a fuss.

864
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: It's easy to I think we're born with this, like

865
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: want to not to not stand out, but to fit in.

866
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: And there's always a you know, if you're different, to

867
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: try and suppress those differences rather than lean into them.

868
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: So I love that you sort of just said this

869
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: is my T shirt, I'm not going to change. But

870
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: then in the areas where it was helpful for you

871
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: to change, you were like, actually, in this area, it's

872
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: okay to leave my introversion behind and grow differently. And

873
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we often think we're born a certain

874
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: way and we can't change, but then we also change

875
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 1: parts that aren't the bits of ourselves that maybe need

876
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: to be Like, I don't know what I'm trying to say,

877
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? I think there's we

878
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time changing things that are good

879
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: about us and not changing things that are unhelpful, whereas

880
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: you seem to have done the opposite.

881
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 2: No, I'm definitely changed ramatically over the years, and I'm

882
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 2: acknowledging that sometimes because I had to, sometimes because I

883
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: wanted to. But deep down, there's some values that don't change,

884
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: and those are the values that really make you be

885
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 2: as you are in certain moments. And so those valels

886
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: the strength you have, your inner strength when you are

887
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: in that moment, in that meeting with everybody with a

888
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: suit and I'm not there. That's why the values that

889
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: you have are strong enough to say, no, I'm not

890
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: going to change. But then other things that you need

891
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: to improve that you understand that you're not doing well,

892
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: then you do change. Having said, it's very interesting because

893
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got so many trainings over the years,

894
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: and I've done, and everybody goes through them, and a

895
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: lot of this even today, they go and try and

896
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: try to improve your weakness, what you're not good at.

897
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: And probably like five or six years ago, going through

898
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: a lot of these trainings, I was getting to my

899
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: coach and say, stop telling me what I need to improve.

900
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: I don't care about improving. I spent all my life

901
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: trying to do that. I reach my limit now. I

902
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: want to spend the rest of my life in improving

903
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: what I'm good at, not what i'm not good at.

904
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: So stop trying to change because I know I've got

905
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: some deficiencies and I'm very proud of them, and you

906
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: can delegate that. I just deal with it. I delegate

907
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: or I deal with it. There's certain things I'm not

908
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: good at. Yeah, I'm not going to work on that

909
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: because I can be so much better if I just

910
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: keep on working on my strengths, what I'm really good.

911
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: The impact that can create around me is so much

912
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 2: stronger that focusing on things that will take me so long,

913
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: and eventually some of them, I'm never going to be

914
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: good at them because it's just the way it is.

915
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: Because we are imperfect. We are Perfection does not exist.

916
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: And so in the last couple of years, I've been

917
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 2: really honestly fighting with the coaches and saying, just don't

918
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: even know there. You know all those things there, all

919
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: the scores are not good in it.

920
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: Well, I on that again, coming back to that whole, like,

921
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: you don't need to be constantly changing everything about you.

922
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: There are some things that like I think there is

923
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: always this whole. We need to be good at everything.

924
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're an a type personality that's driven

925
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: and a bit perfectionist, and you said you're self demanding,

926
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: you demand a lot of yourself, it's really hard to

927
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: let go of some areas and just accept that's not

928
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: my strength. Like, I've got to work around that. What

929
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: are some of your weaknesses? What do you think you're

930
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: not very good at.

931
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: I'm extremely disorganized at work, extremely organized in my personal life.

932
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: Is like yeah, but it's look, I'm extremely organized in

933
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: my personal life, but I work completely disorganized. I'm a

934
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: messed that's so reverse what you think. Just listen to

935
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: the rest. But I work better in chaos. Right, during

936
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: a chaos situation, I will be stronger during COVID. I

937
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: was stronger under stress. I'm going to be stronger. But

938
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: because I'm so agile that I can work in an

939
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: unformatted world, and chaos is the perfect perfection for me

940
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: because I just need to take decisions. I'm very quickly

941
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: thinking I can do that. If you want me put

942
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: through a formatted path. If I need to present something

943
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: which is very much you know, a beautiful presentation, striped

944
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: and everything, I'm going to be now No, it's worse

945
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: than I hate it. I'm going to be bad. I'm

946
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: not good at it, and I know and I acknowledge it.

947
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: So when I'm having meetings, even with my executive committee,

948
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: a lot of them need format a lot of them

949
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 2: need organization. So I need to ask the help saying

950
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: I'm not good at that. If you want that, you

951
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: need to provide me with some help. Otherwise we're going

952
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 2: to be frustrated because you're expecting something from me which

953
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: I cannot deliver. So I'm very knowledgeable of what I

954
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: cannot do, and upfront I say I cannot do that.

955
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm not good at that. Either I have fortunate to

956
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: have incredible talented people in my team that can compensate that,

957
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: or when it's a personal thing, I just have to

958
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: admit it. I just can't do it. And therefore I'm

959
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: not going to be frustrated about it, just accept it

960
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: that I cannot do it, and I do this. I mean,

961
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 2: I think if you ask me, really, there's going to

962
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: be a huge amount of lists of things that I'm doing.

963
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: I'm not good at it, then what's wrong.

964
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: I think the ability to articulate the areas where you

965
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: are going to need to reach out for help is

966
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful in a role where you don't actually have

967
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that you're about at anything.

968
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: You can just say whatever you want. You're the CEO.

969
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: But I do because I think it's important when yeah, again,

970
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: when you go back to the point I said that

971
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: I'm impacting so many people, it's important to impact the people,

972
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 2: in particular those who are starting their careers to say

973
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: it's okay, you don't have to be good all the

974
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: time and good at everything. There are different things that

975
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: you have. It's not a problem. And and every time I've

976
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: got conversations with our management trainee program, it's just about that.

977
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 2: I mean, it's okay, you can't do whatever you want.

978
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: I think that is an incredible strength in your leadership.

979
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: Is the openness as well that you speak with about

980
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: your strengths, weaknesses, and the things that you like to

981
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: operate in chaos as well.

982
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 3: Is something that's really interesting.

983
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: Knowing the circumstances in which you thrive is really important,

984
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people don't know that.

985
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: But a lot of things about your role and the

986
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: way you operate have surprised me such a good way,

987
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: like the fact that you were sneakers to work, Like

988
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: the fact that you aren't the first person in the

989
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: office that you say that there is flexibility in the workplace,

990
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: and that you demonstrate that as well. So when, for example,

991
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, we talk about the huge legacies that you

992
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: have for women in science, big programs like that, the

993
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: paid parental leave changes that have been made, wellness hour

994
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: that was introduced in COVID, it's hard to imagine how

995
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: you actually do that day to day. Like it's easy

996
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: to say this is what the CEO achieves and this

997
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: is his role in the company, and these are his values.

998
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: But like day to day, what do you do? Are

999
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: you mainly in the office, so are you mainly traveling?

1000
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: Tell us what time? Like there will be a video

1001
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: on this, but for those people who haven't seen it yet,

1002
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: what time do you get in. Are you mainly in meetings?

1003
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: You know, you have obviously a lot of latitude around

1004
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: the culture and the activities that the company does. But

1005
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: when you're bringing to life something like for women in science,

1006
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Are you in meetings? Are you

1007
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: at the gym?

1008
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: Like?

1009
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 3: What's your day?

1010
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: Like?

1011
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: I'm early birds, but early bird just because I get

1012
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: up early every day, but I need a lot of

1013
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: time in the morning for personal reasons, where moments I

1014
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: went through anxiety depression, mornings are really important for me.

1015
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: And because of that as well, after a moment of reflection,

1016
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: I know that sometimes I've got still a bit of

1017
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: an anxiety, so I need the gym. In fact, the

1018
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: gym is the only thing that for me, we operates

1019
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 2: to overcome that anxiety. So after the gym, then I'm

1020
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 2: ready for the day. So if I work up in

1021
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: six point thirty, I'll be an hour and a half

1022
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 2: just getting ready myself mentally, and then I hit the gym.

1023
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: And of course, because I've been one hour and a

1024
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: half doing nothing, just reflecting, I'm going to be later ready.

1025
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: So I'm going to hit the gym, sometimes at eight,

1026
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: sometimes at nine, And obviously my day is already quite late.

1027
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: But I'm not a shame of that, because I mean,

1028
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 2: that's how I operate, and that's I'm going to operate better.

1029
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: So why do I have to be at nine o'clock

1030
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: in the office when I'm not going to be good

1031
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: at nine o'clock and I'm going to be extraordinary better

1032
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 2: at ten o'clock. So yes, I'm going to arrive at

1033
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 2: ten is and that's that's where lie scripted. Is that

1034
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: where my mind is ready to operate? Well, yes, afterwards,

1035
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: I will stay until late most of the times, but regardless,

1036
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: it's about the productivity I have and I'm really good

1037
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: if I do this in the morning. So some days,

1038
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: of course, because I'm in a group which I need

1039
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: to be flexible as well, other people need to have

1040
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: a meeting, et cetera at nine o'clock, I will be

1041
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: there if needed. But that was going to be the

1042
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: exceptions and not the rules that I make. And I've

1043
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: always been like this. So everybody tells me, oh, it's

1044
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: very easier now because you are a CEO. No it's not.

1045
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm going to tell you the antidote. When

1046
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: I started that company back in nineteen ninety three, in Portugal.

1047
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: Right in the first months of me starting, I had

1048
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: at the time was the CFO and HRD at the

1049
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: same time, you had both jobs. Telling me, you know, Rodrigo,

1050
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: I always arrive around nine, but some days I arrive

1051
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 2: a bit later, and I never see your car in

1052
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: the office because already the time I will arrive around

1053
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 2: nine point thirty. And I told, yeah, yeah, it's prob true.

1054
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: But you know, I can't remember his name, whatever his

1055
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 2: name was. I always leave around seven or eight pm,

1056
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: and I never see Ocarlia and either and he was

1057
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: the top guy and everything. And I said that, and

1058
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: I said, well, this is the way I am. If

1059
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: you don't like it, says only one thing you can

1060
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 2: say to me. It's just well with you have to go.

1061
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: And I'm very fine with that, but don't tell me.

1062
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: And this is the first year, in fact, in the

1063
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 2: first month that I joined the company, and I had

1064
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: her another moment later on in my life, when I

1065
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: was already managing director of the business unit in Venezuela

1066
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: and my boss was the CEO, I reported to him

1067
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 2: every morning he was going to look for me at

1068
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: nine fifteen nine thirty. Every morning, my assistant would call me.

1069
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: He's here. She was desperate. He's trying to open the door,

1070
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 2: where are you and everything, And the moment I had

1071
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: to go to it, IM say, look, buddy, I'm not

1072
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: going to be here at that time. I arrived between

1073
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: nine thirty to nine forty five. It got worse over

1074
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: the times, but nine is now. I'm gone exactly, I'm

1075
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: going to take my kids to school, I'm going to

1076
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: be late, I'm going to be to the GM afterwards.

1077
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: And it's just it is what it is. And he says, no,

1078
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: it cannot happen, and I say, I'm not going to change.

1079
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: I will be here at all meetings that you are,

1080
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: your meetings organized by you, at nine o'clock all the

1081
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: the other ones. Just let me be who I am

1082
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: and just judge me and evaluate me by my results

1083
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,959
Speaker 2: and everything else, but not by that. And I never changed.

1084
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 2: And there's been like this over the years. So as

1085
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: for the rest of the day, I tend to leave

1086
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 2: a lot of space for of course, because I'm not formatted,

1087
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: I cannot have a calendar which is full unformatted.

1088
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: I love this, the unformatted formatic.

1089
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: So I leave a lot of space for casual meetings

1090
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: and catch ups and everything. So I'll see so many

1091
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: people have a day which I'll have three meetings, and

1092
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: all of a suddenly I've got ten catchups because I

1093
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 2: leave so much time for that. And the importance is

1094
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 2: that because most of the knowledge I have does not

1095
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 2: come in a formal meeting. Most of the knowledge will

1096
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: come from insights which come at any point of time

1097
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 2: from anybody. When you look about some of the main

1098
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 2: things that you mentioned. When we decided the wellness Hour,

1099
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 2: it came like that we were in COVID and we said,

1100
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: people are nine to five or to six is even

1101
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: worse than where they were in your office. They're at home,

1102
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: They're saturated. We need to break it. And it was

1103
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: like this was out of a conversation of a coffee

1104
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: catch up that I was having with someone saying, my

1105
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: team is saturated. And there was another moment afterwards in

1106
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: exactly the same sense where we gave one free day

1107
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: for everybody because we felt during lockdown that people were saturated.

1108
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: There was so much stress, so we said, hey, guys,

1109
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: out of nothing from one day to the other, we

1110
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 2: said tomorrow, nobody works. And it's just because of the knowledge,

1111
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: because of talking to people. If I'm in a meeting,

1112
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: I'm not understanding what's happening. If I'm walking the floors

1113
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 2: and I'm talking to people, then you had a little

1114
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: bit on information. I don't react to just one information

1115
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: because one is an incident, two is coincidence, three is

1116
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: a pattern. If I go there where I just look

1117
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: at Okay, someone is telling me something. Let me see

1118
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: if I can hear more of this. Because a lot

1119
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 2: of times some people are very loud, and not always

1120
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: they represent the company. What we change dramatically lately is

1121
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: that we listen to the company, not just to the individual.

1122
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 2: Every time we try to do things which impact the

1123
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: majority of people. If only one person wants something, I'm sorry,

1124
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: but I cannot provide individual things for each one of

1125
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: the employees. So it's really important because I listen. But

1126
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: then I go and confirm can you talk about it?

1127
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: I go to HR, I go to another person that

1128
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: I know, and can you tell me a bit more?

1129
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: Is this really happening? And then when I get read

1130
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: the impression that is really much larger than I expect,

1131
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: then I react. And then I try to react very easily,

1132
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: and because of the agility I work rate, I can

1133
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: react on things without having all the acknowledge and go back.

1134
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 2: How you see the circle always close data and intuition.

1135
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't have all the data, but I have intuition.

1136
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll act with a little bit of data and

1137
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: my intuitions say yeah, I think that data is right.

1138
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: I don't have to confirm it. I'll take the risk

1139
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: and I'll go very early with that data. Sometimes I

1140
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: need a bit more data, And that balance is really

1141
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: beautiful because that's how you operate in the best scenarios.

1142
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: Always you're trying to balance both of them. And during

1143
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: COVID was really the moment where I was operating with

1144
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 2: leader data and a lot of intuition, and most of

1145
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: the things I was calling out were right once and

1146
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: you just get your trust out of it and you

1147
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: just continue to do it. But it's really interesting that

1148
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: you leave a lot of this space. Throughout the day,

1149
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: I do have meetings, and sometimes meetings are important as well.

1150
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 2: I've got catchups with my direct reports every week so

1151
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: i can be close to the business. I've got a

1152
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: very important strategic meeting with all my executive committee once

1153
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 2: per months. Just dedicate it a really very strategic things

1154
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: because One of the things I've changed as well dramatically

1155
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: is thinking ahead. I'm not in today. I've got a

1156
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: full incredible talented people to talk about today and the

1157
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 2: operation as they're working today. I don't even look at

1158
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: the sales results on a daily base. I've got a

1159
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: report and you never look at them. I've not looked

1160
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: at the report for four years. This is so interesting

1161
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: to me because I'm thinking about tomorrow. When you look

1162
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 2: at my job, I cannot change today. It's happened. The

1163
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: only thing I can do is predict before things are

1164
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: happening for tomorrow and take the organization towards that future.

1165
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: So I work in tomorrow. I work in the future.

1166
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 2: I work in the things that are going to change

1167
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: the company and how can I impact that. But then

1168
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: I had to let it flow because I literally cannot

1169
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 2: change one things are so why I'm trying even to

1170
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: work on today. I need everybody to do that part.

1171
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 2: So a lot of the time I need is to

1172
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: talk about people, because I need to understand what is

1173
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 2: it that needs to be changed in terms of the company,

1174
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: and for that I need to talk to people internal

1175
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: and externally. Data driven. We started a data driven journey

1176
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: two years ago because I was talking to so many

1177
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: people outside of the company, and I was fascinating about

1178
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: what other business we're doing about data, but in fact,

1179
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: only really the tech companies were really very much driven

1180
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 2: by data, and I said, why can't we do this?

1181
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: And I was influenced by a guy called Jujual, which

1182
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: was as system dean in Melobine's school on the Masters

1183
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: of Data Analytics, an incredible person. And then I was

1184
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: lucky enough to recruit someone to work with us, Crystelle,

1185
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: with absolutely fantastic data analytics. And now I've got this

1186
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: beautiful balance in terms of data intuition, And the more

1187
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: I've got data, the more I can work on my

1188
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: intuition because the data finally does not change and does

1189
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: not replaced. Intuition does not replace us. It just gives

1190
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: us more ability to take better decisions. So what I've

1191
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: changed is that, again, can you see the flow. I've

1192
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 2: got plenty of time to get a lot of insights.

1193
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: These insights take me to data, These insights take me

1194
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: to better decisions, or I go to intuition. But for

1195
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: that I need a lot of free time throughout the day.

1196
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: I do travel a lot, but I balance that as well.

1197
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 2: I travel when I think is really necessary within Australia

1198
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 2: to New Zealand and of course and overseas, but I

1199
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 2: need to be with the team, so I don't overtravel

1200
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: because if I am too much time traveling, then I'm

1201
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: not knowing what's happening within that company. And so this

1202
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 2: is all influence of happening. It is completely influenced by

1203
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: outsource information, by other organizations, by traveling sometimes and getting

1204
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: some learnings. It's a constant. It's a constant daily learning,

1205
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: and that's what makes what I am to do and

1206
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: very important. Equal is way beyond professional. I learned so

1207
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 2: much for personal situations that I've been through, some good,

1208
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: some less good, and there is always a bit of

1209
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: a crossing between both of them. And I had to

1210
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 2: go through I mentioned to you some moments of depression

1211
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: and anxiety. I have therapy. A lot of things that

1212
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: I learned. There are things that I use as a

1213
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: leader as well, because again that's where the truth is.

1214
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: So I'm really very flexible to get learnings from everywhere,

1215
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: every lead situation, even today's sitting with you, I'm learning.

1216
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 2: I'm learning about what interests to you, what is with

1217
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: the things that you want me to talk about, and

1218
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 2: so I'm learning because that's in the future something they're

1219
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: going to use. Even more so, it's a permanent realization

1220
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 2: that they can continue to involve myself.

1221
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: I think it's quite extraordinary that you would expect your

1222
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,720
Speaker 1: calendar to be absolutely chock a block with no moving space,

1223
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: and the fact that you leave so much open for

1224
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: casual catch apps and to have your ear to the

1225
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: ground of the people you're actually working with, and also

1226
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: that most of our conversations we speak one percent about

1227
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: loreal product.

1228
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 3: It speaks for itself.

1229
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: You're always talking about people and learning and impact, and

1230
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: even that intuition comes into your decision making. I think

1231
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people listening will be quite surprised that

1232
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: there's even latitude for you to do that, But I

1233
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: think you can see that filter through and everything that

1234
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: Marial Australia New Zealand does, and I admire it so much.

1235
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: But I think there's also a beautiful fusion between, as

1236
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: you mentioned, the professional and the personal. And I'd love

1237
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: to finish just on the idea that you know, CZA

1238
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: is all about finding joy and fulfillment and metrics other

1239
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: than success and productivity in work but also outside of work,

1240
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: and a lot of people when I ask them about

1241
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: work life balance, especially at a C suite level, kind

1242
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: of laugh and say that's a really artificial concept. Some

1243
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: people think it's really important to have delineation. Some people

1244
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: blur it all together. Sometimes people who are parents have

1245
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: a very different balance to people who aren't parents. What's

1246
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: your take on at the time you leave the office.

1247
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: Are you able to switch off? Are you always the CEO?

1248
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: Do you need a clear delineation to have downtime or

1249
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: is it all just kind of a blur. Do you

1250
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: believe in work life balance, like, what's your take on

1251
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: your personal life?

1252
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: I definitely believe in work life balance. I don't believe

1253
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: in people that say that they cannot have it. It's your

1254
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: personal decision. It's nothing to do with your work. It's

1255
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: your absolutely personal decision. You just decide when you want

1256
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: to stop. You decide what do you have to do today.

1257
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 2: I do both whenever I want it all moments. If

1258
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: I've got an event of my kids, a concerts, which

1259
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to have one on Monday, at any point

1260
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 2: of time, at any hour of the day, I'm going

1261
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: to stop and go because that's what work life balance is,

1262
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: is being with my kids at all points of time.

1263
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 2: I've got four kids. I've never missed any of them,

1264
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: or almost never if I was physically present, unless I

1265
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: was traveling, and I avoid traveling when they have those

1266
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: kind of events. I've always been in all their events,

1267
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: and I've been in events which are coinciding with major meetings.

1268
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: I had moments where I tell my boss, I'm sorry,

1269
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: and that's where the beautiful of the freedomen and to

1270
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 2: be honest, the good aspect of loreal is that I'm sorry,

1271
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: I've got an event I have to attend. I'll come

1272
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: back and I've left major executive meetings with my boss,

1273
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 2: go to event with my kids and come back and

1274
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 2: continue the meeting, because that is what is most important.

1275
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: So I do that on a regular base. Every time

1276
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: I pick up my kids, I'm going to with my kids.

1277
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: There are some Thursdays where I pick my kids, you know,

1278
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: at three point thirty, and I'm with them in the

1279
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 2: activities until eight pm. And I tell people, do you

1280
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: want to have a meeting with the fine but I'm

1281
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: going to be in the car waiting for my kids.

1282
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 2: If you accept, I need to respect to you. If

1283
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: you accept that I'm going to be in the car,

1284
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: I can have a meeting with you over the phone,

1285
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: over teams, but you need to understand that I'm in

1286
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: the car, so that the think that I'm disrespecting you,

1287
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: and I do that no problem. But my priority is

1288
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: going to be on those moments to kids. So I

1289
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 2: don't even think about what people say that about work

1290
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: life balance. It's so easy to manage. You just have

1291
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 2: to be really understanding what you want to do. So

1292
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 2: if you decide not to, don't tell me that you

1293
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 2: cannot have it. It's because you decided that you didn't

1294
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: want to do it. You can take decisions. And when

1295
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: people say about the jobs, you know, we are so

1296
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: fortunate that we are in a country where there's no unemployment.

1297
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: So what are people afraid of? You know, you don't

1298
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: have something. If you are in an organization that doesn't

1299
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: accept it, does not understand it, that you're not in

1300
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: the right organization. So by definition, you should move on.

1301
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 2: I mean if you want, because we are so flexible,

1302
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 2: I think that's the way you have to be. So

1303
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: I really don't have a definition what it is. I'm

1304
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 2: balanced some days I'm going to be more. Some days

1305
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to be calling moms my kids mom and say, now,

1306
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: can you please help me out be on the kids.

1307
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: But sometimes, you know, we had a I was keynote

1308
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 2: speaker last week in a diversity conference and mom called

1309
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: me say, I need you to go and take the

1310
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: kids because she's working as schedule now and she needed

1311
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: to be work at seven. And yes, of course I said,

1312
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 2: I am. It complicated my life. Yes, I was really

1313
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: tricky to get there, but you know, she needed me

1314
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 2: to be there, so I just had not even thought, yes,

1315
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to be tomorrow, it's going to be the

1316
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: same thing. She just asked me. No, I need you

1317
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: to take care of the kids, even if it is

1318
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 2: her day to do so. And you know, that's why

1319
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 2: I think we need to be aware of it. It's

1320
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: just always possible. We just have to be flexible and agile.

1321
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: And just let me end up with the point about

1322
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 2: you know, as male, if we really want to enable

1323
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 2: women to full equality, we need to take our responsibilities,

1324
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: and our responsibility as a parent never ends. And I'm

1325
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: very very vocal with the guys in the company. Any

1326
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 2: other one to say, guys, you take care of your kids.

1327
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 2: Your kids need you as much as they need their moms.

1328
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: You need to be there at all times with them.

1329
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: And if you're not helping them, moms will never be

1330
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: able to develop their career. If you don't take your

1331
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 2: parents or leave, you don't take your responsibilities. So you

1332
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 2: need to help them. And honestly, I'm pushing so much

1333
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 2: of our executive and they're the men in the company

1334
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: and beyond that, just say just be with your kids, understand.

1335
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 2: And so many of them come to give me feedback

1336
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: and saying, I follow what you said, and now I

1337
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: can see how important it is. I can even some

1338
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 2: of them if you tell me how they enjoy the

1339
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: time they spend with their kids. Some of the people

1340
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: tell me how b being in the gym every morning

1341
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 2: led them to be also going to the gym, and say,

1342
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: if the CEO can do it, why can I not

1343
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 2: do it. So I think we've got a lot of concepts,

1344
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: but overall, we have the power of deciding our lives.

1345
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: So you should stop stop talking about this balance and

1346
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: creating it. You just do whatever you want to do.

1347
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a way to do it. Maybe I'm

1348
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: a bit of a dream in that part. But we

1349
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 2: really have an incredible culture of flexibility in the company.

1350
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: But I think that is a value, which is your

1351
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: life value. And that's why I tell you, yes, the

1352
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 2: company is incredible flexible for this at all levels. But

1353
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: I also tell you I've never put option on the company.

1354
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 2: It's not your option to decide my life. I decide

1355
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 2: my life. I am loving it because you allow me

1356
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: to do so. But the day you don't will have

1357
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 2: to separate because I'm not giving up on my family

1358
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 2: because of anybody telling me that I have to do

1359
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 2: something different. I think we can do both. But I

1360
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: know exactly what my priority. So it's never been a question.

1361
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: And again I'm not saying this as a CEO today.

1362
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 2: Everybody say it's very easy a CEO. I'm saying about

1363
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: doing this for thirty years. Even when I was not CEO,

1364
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: I had no power. I still had my own power.

1365
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: I decide about my life, and that's where people have

1366
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: to be and of course links to the courage that

1367
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: you have in certain moments and just saying yeah, so

1368
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 2: for me, it's an easy answer, and it's just about

1369
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 2: your valors that you have in life.

1370
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: I also think a lot of people's unhappiness or lack

1371
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: of contentment in their life is linked to not having

1372
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: a clarity of their priorities. You can't make decisions if

1373
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: you don't know what your priorities actually are to begin with,

1374
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: So getting really clear on what matters to you and

1375
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: then filtering all your decisions through that gait of is

1376
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: this in line with my priorities or not? It actually

1377
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: is much more simple than we allow it to be

1378
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: because there's just so much noise about what you should

1379
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: do and what they think of what you're doing. And

1380
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 1: I love that clarity that you have about what's important

1381
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: to you, But just two quick finishing questions that are

1382
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: tying back that idea of joy which you find so

1383
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: important and what you do, and I think makes again

1384
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: is quite surprising in the role of a CEO, what

1385
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: is your play? Because I think we take a life

1386
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: very seriously, we do not make enough room for fulfillment

1387
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: and happiness in what we do. It's for a lot

1388
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: of people not even part of the equation of what

1389
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: their life is and how they lead it is your joy.

1390
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: I kind of think, like what brings your childlike sense

1391
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: of wonder out? It's got nothing to do with learning,

1392
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: nothing to do with productivity. It's just for fun.

1393
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think you've got joy in two ways. I've

1394
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 2: got my personal joy, which comes with my motorbike. My motorbike, yeah, right,

1395
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: riding my motorbike. It comes because it is a moment.

1396
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 2: There is nothing else but me and my motorbike, with

1397
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 2: the dangers of it, with the overspeeding of it and everything.

1398
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: But it is my joy. There's nothing else, and it's

1399
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 2: a beautiful moment because it's a moment that they know.

1400
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: I'm super focused, by the way, but it's just my moment,

1401
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: and my motorbike is me and the motorbike. There's nobody

1402
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 2: else in my motive because I don't ride with anybody

1403
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: else except sometimes with my son, because we have this connection,

1404
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 2: and that's very important, and that's where I link with

1405
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: the other moments of joy. Sometimes you don't live joy

1406
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: by yourself. You live joy on other people's joy. So

1407
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 2: when I'm with my kids and I'm providing them to

1408
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: have their own joy, I'm having mine just by their

1409
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 2: pleasure and happiness. I don't have to have mine. So

1410
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 2: I go to a lot of things, which I go

1411
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 2: sometimes with my oldest son, but sometimes when my younger ones,

1412
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 2: I'm bored to death personally, but the fact and joy

1413
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 2: it brings joy to me. So yes, I think sometimes

1414
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: I try to have things which bring me joy, and

1415
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 2: there's a lot of moments of life I can do that.

1416
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 2: But I have so much joy about my own kids

1417
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 2: and just being with them, you know, in particularly by

1418
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 2: being partly single dead sometimes you know, every moment that

1419
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: I can be with them is a joy because it's

1420
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 2: important now and it's you know, sometimes where you're alone,

1421
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 2: you have a lot of time to think about things. Yeah,

1422
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 2: so when I tell you again that mom tells me

1423
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: I come and pick up the kids, come and do this,

1424
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's just an extra moment for

1425
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: me to be with my kids. You know, regardless of

1426
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: being single or not, you're not spending enough time with

1427
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 2: your kids, never in your life. So if I can

1428
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 2: indicate any extra moment to be with them, it's incredible

1429
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: and they want it to be like that as well.

1430
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 2: So they're just having so much pleasure when you with them.

1431
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, that is fundamental that you really think. So

1432
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: joy can have so many different ways, and so absolutely

1433
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 2: you just have to find where you're on one. I

1434
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: think that's very personally as well.

1435
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: And final question, do you have a favorite quote or

1436
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: saying or something that brings you joy, what keeps you

1437
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: focused on what matters to you.

1438
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,959
Speaker 2: No, I think I've got a really this ambition of happiness,

1439
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: you know, for me, it is something that I need

1440
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 2: to have every day, and it's a link in between

1441
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: happiness and passion, and I don't know, it's very emotional

1442
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 2: and I think that's something that I've learned over the years.

1443
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because we started the conversation about our

1444
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 2: being introvert, or we didn't started. We went through that,

1445
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 2: and I've changed so much throughout the years. I was introvert.

1446
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 2: I'm extreme extrovert. I was very emotional a few years

1447
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: back because I was very cold. I did not mention

1448
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 2: to you, but I did lose my parents both five

1449
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 2: months apart of terminal cancer. And one of the ways

1450
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 2: that I was pretty young on my twenties, one of

1451
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: the ways to do that was protect myself. So I

1452
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 2: become really very cold, you know, unemotional, complete hair. This

1453
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: protection going on and throughout the years, in particularly the

1454
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: birth of my daughter. At a certain moment, it's completely

1455
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 2: change my life. He melted the way I am, so

1456
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 2: I want to leave my emotions. So what I want

1457
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 2: is more than a quote, is just enjoy life. It's

1458
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: such a beautiful thing, and so whatever I do, it

1459
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 2: is just making sure that there's this pleasure of moments

1460
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 2: with the people I like more than anything else, you know,

1461
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 2: and people I like can be friends, can be certainly family,

1462
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 2: can be some people in the office as well, because

1463
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:33,600
Speaker 2: you spend so much time that that you link with

1464
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 2: some people so specially, and you know, there are these

1465
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 2: friends which cannot be friends because they're supposed to be

1466
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: your colleagues, but they actually your friends. And all those

1467
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: moments are really the moments I really enjoy. So just

1468
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 2: happiness would be the most important thing for me, more

1469
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: than a quote. Oh what a.

1470
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Beautiful way to end a very on brand well done.

1471
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time.

1472
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 1: I know and appreciate how valuable it is and how

1473
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: little there is of it outside of doing such amazing

1474
01:08:59,360 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: things with Laura.

1475
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 2: Thank you to thank you for inviting. It was a

1476
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: pleasure to be here, and I'm sure we could be

1477
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: sharing more and more things for a few hours.

1478
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we could have gone on for hours. Thank you

1479
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 3: so much.

1480
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1481
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: I hope you guys found this one as fascinating as

1482
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: I did. I absolutely love diving into the day to

1483
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: day of different pathways, but especially into the day to

1484
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: day of different brains. Please do head over to our

1485
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: socials to watch the day in the Life video, and

1486
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed listening along, share away to your heart's

1487
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Speaker 1: content to help spread the YA as far and wide

1488
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,440
Speaker 1: as possible. By now we'll be on our next adventure,

1489
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: but have recorded in advance so you'll still be getting

1490
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: the YA in your ears. Next up is another dose

1491
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: of yeas of our lives with of course the Wonderful

1492
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: and fort two is recording me right now, and don't

1493
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: forget to keep submitting your this ya or that YA

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Speaker 1: slash would you rather questions for our chaotic enjoyment. In

1495
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: the meantime, I hope you are having an amazing week

1496
01:09:54,080 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: and as seizing your YA