Vanessa Nelson: So they came down in the ambulance when they came
Vanessa Nelson: to talk. They were like, Well, we're not too sure
Vanessa Nelson: It's a grey area. Like, how can this be grey?
Vanessa Nelson: There's a ball of her hair beside her and she'd
Vanessa Nelson: been cutting her hair. We're concerned she's mentally not well.
Vanessa Nelson: We do need help. They did take her away. And
Vanessa Nelson: I'm telling you, it was heartbreaking because she was trying
Vanessa Nelson: to run away from them and they were grabbing her
Vanessa Nelson: by her pants and she was fighting. Finally, they got
Vanessa Nelson: her in the ambulance. So she went to Surrey Memorial
Vanessa Nelson: Hospital for two months. And in the emergency, when they
Vanessa Nelson: took her in, she was screaming at us, saying that
Vanessa Nelson: I'll never talk to you girls ever again, like me yelling.
Vanessa Nelson: We were just making sure she was going to be okay.
Faydra Aldridge: Well, situations like this are incredibly hard to imagine having
Faydra Aldridge: to call the police or an ambulance in this case
Faydra Aldridge: to have your loved one committed to a psychiatric facility
Faydra Aldridge: for their own safety or for the safety of others,
Faydra Aldridge: all with the hope of getting them the treatment they
Faydra Aldridge: need and deserve. It's called involuntary admission and treatment, and
Faydra Aldridge: it's a key part of the B.C. Mental Health Act.
Faydra Aldridge: The B.C. Mental Health Act provides guidelines on how to
Faydra Aldridge: admit and treat people who are experiencing a serious mental
Faydra Aldridge: health crisis. Untreated mental illnesses can cause a person to
Faydra Aldridge: experience any nausea, which means they lose insight into the
Faydra Aldridge: fact that they are ill and will not accept voluntary
Faydra Aldridge: treatment even when their illness may be causing harm to
Faydra Aldridge: them or to others. My name is Faydra Aldridge and we're
Faydra Aldridge: kicking off the third season of Look Again: Mental Illness Re-Examined,
Faydra Aldridge: a podcast about mental illness brought to you by the B.C.
Faydra Aldridge: Schizophrenia Society and other B.C. partner organizations. Today we are
Faydra Aldridge: speaking with Vanessa Nelson. Vanessa is a regional educator for
Faydra Aldridge: the BC Schizophrenia Society in the Okanagan and she has
Faydra Aldridge: a very personal connection to this topic. Vanessa's daughter, Mira
Faydra Aldridge: was diagnosed with schizophrenia at the age of 18 and
Faydra Aldridge: is now 22. And during these years, Mira has been
Faydra Aldridge: involuntarily detained under the B.C. Mental Health Act multiple times. Vanessa,
Faydra Aldridge: thank you for being here today to share your story
Faydra Aldridge: with us. Welcome to the podcast.
Vanessa Nelson: Thank you very much.
Faydra Aldridge: So, Vanessa, let's talk about Mira and how mental illness
Faydra Aldridge: has affected her life and your life.
Vanessa Nelson: To say that it's been a nightmare is an understatement.
Vanessa Nelson: It's affected us at every level. This is truly one
Vanessa Nelson: of the worst illnesses that I've ever witnessed. And it's
Vanessa Nelson: been embarrassing. It's been heart wrenching and life changing. It's
Vanessa Nelson: been a constant emergency situation for the last three years.
Vanessa Nelson: The amount of hospitalisations that have happened, the very public breakdowns.
Vanessa Nelson: Everyone in the community knows that something's wrong. And it's
Vanessa Nelson: been horrible for her. Horrible for the whole family. There
Vanessa Nelson: really are no words to describe the confusion and how
Vanessa Nelson: unrealistic it seems that all of this happened. And I
Vanessa Nelson: think it's so taboo to tell members of the community that, oh,
Vanessa Nelson: she's got schizophrenia. It's a very feared term when a
Vanessa Nelson: family gets a diagnosis of cancer. They're wrapped up in
Vanessa Nelson: blankets and brought casseroles. And when schizophrenia happens, nobody wants
Vanessa Nelson: to talk to you. Nobody wants to discuss it.
Faydra Aldridge: Like you said, there are no words. So thank you
Faydra Aldridge: for sharing that. I know you could never summarize what
Faydra Aldridge: it's like to see your daughter experiencing psychosis, but can
Faydra Aldridge: you just give us a picture of what some of
Faydra Aldridge: her symptoms were and what you saw your daughter go through.
Vanessa Nelson: At the onset? She wasn't even diagnosed at the time.
Vanessa Nelson: We had no clue what was going on. It was
Vanessa Nelson: so far outside of my experience that I didn't even
Vanessa Nelson: know what to do and the hell that erupted. She
Vanessa Nelson: really was not in her right mind. She was in
Vanessa Nelson: a completely delusional state and had to call the cops.
Vanessa Nelson: She waffles between different personalities and different moods like lightning.
Vanessa Nelson: So one second she'll be very manic and squealing. You
Vanessa Nelson: can actually hear her laughter blocks away and it makes
Vanessa Nelson: the hair on your body just stand up because it
Vanessa Nelson: is so undeniably unhinged. She gets very angry at the
Vanessa Nelson: drop of a pin. Often times in conversation, she's so
Vanessa Nelson: scattered that she's jumping between all of those different emotions
Vanessa Nelson: all at once. A lot of religious jargon just spewing
Vanessa Nelson: out of her mouth and just wild accusations against everyone.
Vanessa Nelson: She did not know she was mentally ill. She had
Vanessa Nelson: an a signature. She started drinking heavily. Really coping with marijuana.
Vanessa Nelson: Just the cleanliness, the change in her hygiene. She started
Vanessa Nelson: having hallucinations, accusing family members all around her of atrocious crimes.
Vanessa Nelson: She thought we were trying to kill her. The paranoia
Vanessa Nelson: was so confusing to have to hear because she's always
Vanessa Nelson: been very smart, very concise with her speech. But she
Vanessa Nelson: started getting very disorganized, not understanding what was going on
Vanessa Nelson: around her.
Faydra Aldridge: Let's go back. And how did she finally go from
Faydra Aldridge: that psychotic state and being placed in a hospital?
Vanessa Nelson: Well, she had a suicide attempt, so they took her
Vanessa Nelson: to the hospital. Then she was in there for a
Vanessa Nelson: couple of weeks that time. There were so many emergency
Vanessa Nelson: calls that had to be made at the onset of
Vanessa Nelson: her illness that it's hard to even remember sometimes because
Vanessa Nelson: it was all so filled with trauma.
Faydra Aldridge: Wow. So your daughter was taken into hospital. She didn't
Faydra Aldridge: want to go. How did she respond to that?
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, it was hard. I mean, throughout the hospitalization, she
Vanessa Nelson: tried to escape. They had to lock her up in
Vanessa Nelson: solitary confinement in what essentially was a cell. So there
Vanessa Nelson: were lots of moments where she wasn't treated with the
Vanessa Nelson: care that somebody who was very ill should receive. And
Vanessa Nelson: that's not on any of the lovely professionals that have
Vanessa Nelson: worked pretty much around the clock to try and save
Vanessa Nelson: her life and to get her healthy. What else do
Vanessa Nelson: you do? So I understand why she tried so hard
Vanessa Nelson: to get out. It varies, right? Sometimes she knows she
Vanessa Nelson: needs to go to the hospital and has been very
Vanessa Nelson: willing to check herself in if she feels unsafe. But
Vanessa Nelson: a lot of times she's definitely taken and against her will.
Vanessa Nelson: And those times have involved police. They've involved community members, too.
Vanessa Nelson: So a lot of times when she had her breakdowns,
Vanessa Nelson: they would have been in public places. The shop owner
Vanessa Nelson: has called in on her and have gotten calls from
Vanessa Nelson: restaurants saying, hey, we had to call the ambulance for
Vanessa Nelson: your daughter. It's been a community wide endeavour to get
Vanessa Nelson: to keep this kid safe. I'm super lucky because she
Vanessa Nelson: does have a lot of people watching out for her
Vanessa Nelson: who do care.
Faydra Aldridge: It takes a village, doesn't it, Vanessa?
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, definitely.
Faydra Aldridge: Now, some provinces don't allow for involuntary treatment. Obviously, things
Faydra Aldridge: didn't go as you would hoped or your daughter would
Faydra Aldridge: have hoped. But what do you think would have happened
Faydra Aldridge: if your daughter had not received involuntary treatment?
Vanessa Nelson: She would not be alive. Flat out without the involuntary treatment,
Vanessa Nelson: without the medication, without having her kept in a safe place,
Vanessa Nelson: she simply wouldn't be alive. And in this past psychosis
Vanessa Nelson: that she's had, she was just recently put under the
Vanessa Nelson: Mental Health Act again. We almost lost her so many times.
Vanessa Nelson: I can't even count how many times she was in
Vanessa Nelson: the hospital and how many phone calls I received from
Vanessa Nelson: the police in the middle of the night. How many
Vanessa Nelson: texts from her mental health team. And it's been terrifying.
Vanessa Nelson: And the reason that she went into psychosis the second
Vanessa Nelson: time to such an extent was because she was taken
Vanessa Nelson: off of the Mental Health Act and so was no
Vanessa Nelson: longer required to take her medication. And as soon as
Vanessa Nelson: she went off that medication, she went into an immediate, deep,
Vanessa Nelson: terrifying psychosis.
Faydra Aldridge: Now, you had said that you were receiving texts from
Faydra Aldridge: the police and the mental health team and other organisations
Faydra Aldridge: within the community. What did they tell you in those texts?
Vanessa Nelson: Very little because of confidentiality, Right. I got a lot
Vanessa Nelson: more information when she was younger. So during her first psychosis,
Vanessa Nelson: people were still giving me information. Now, when she's ill,
Vanessa Nelson: she doesn't want anyone to talk to me. They're very
Vanessa Nelson: bound by confidentiality, at least with the mental health team
Vanessa Nelson: in the hospital. The community members are not so bound
Vanessa Nelson: by confidentiality. So that's how I've been getting my information.
Vanessa Nelson: It's been terrifying. And it's terrifying for her, too. She
Vanessa Nelson: doesn't know what's happening to her a lot of the
Vanessa Nelson: time right now.
Faydra Aldridge: If she doesn't recognize she's ill, why would she voluntarily
Faydra Aldridge: get treatment for something in her mind she doesn't have?
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, exactly. Trying to get her to accept treatment or
Vanessa Nelson: accept medication when she's in that space, when she won't
Vanessa Nelson: even talk to anybody is impossible. I'm deeply grateful for
Vanessa Nelson: the fact that the Mental Health Act exists and that
Vanessa Nelson: she has been put on it, because otherwise I would
Vanessa Nelson: never see my daughter as who she is beyond the illness.
Faydra Aldridge: Now, when your daughter is taken in, receives treatment, what
Faydra Aldridge: happens when she gets out of hospital?
Vanessa Nelson: Typically between February and now, I would say she's probably
Vanessa Nelson: been taken in and released 20 times. They don't keep
Vanessa Nelson: her for long because she refuses treatment. And it took
Vanessa Nelson: a really long time to actually get her put back
Vanessa Nelson: on the Mental Health Act. So she would just be
Vanessa Nelson: released right into the streets. And because she went into
Vanessa Nelson: such a severe psychosis, she lost her jobs, she lost
Vanessa Nelson: her apartment, nobody would take her in because once again, schizophrenia,
Vanessa Nelson: she doesn't qualify for any of the community housing situations
Vanessa Nelson: because of her mental illness. So it's been horrific. When
Vanessa Nelson: she was released from the hospital, medicated the first time
Vanessa Nelson: and started doing well, building her life back together, making
Vanessa Nelson: about a million apologies, it's very hard when she comes
Vanessa Nelson: out of a psychosis because all of the guilt and
Vanessa Nelson: shame and tough conversations that she has to have with
Vanessa Nelson: everybody she knows and everybody she's encountered has been such
Vanessa Nelson: a tough road for her. And this time, especially because
Vanessa Nelson: she ended up going viral on TikTok. We were walking
Vanessa Nelson: down the street the other day and she was looking
Vanessa Nelson: beautiful for the first time in a very long time.
Vanessa Nelson: And some jerk rolled down his window and started laughing
Vanessa Nelson: and pointing at her. And it was just the most
Vanessa Nelson: heartbreaking moment. And she has to live through that on
Vanessa Nelson: a nearly daily basis. So it's having those tough conversations
Vanessa Nelson: with her. Like, yes, people have seen you at your worst.
Vanessa Nelson: You can either run or you can stick around and
Vanessa Nelson: show them your best because she is amazing. She's one
Vanessa Nelson: of the most gifted poets I know. She works hard.
Vanessa Nelson: She is incredibly resourceful. I just have to have faith
Vanessa Nelson: that she's going to come out of this again completely
Vanessa Nelson: and hopefully not get so sick again. To tell you
Vanessa Nelson: the truth, I didn't think she would get so sick again.
Vanessa Nelson: So my hopes were quite dashed when she went into
Vanessa Nelson: this psychosis because she was doing much better.
Faydra Aldridge: And where is your daughter today, Vanessa?
Vanessa Nelson: She has temporary housing at a family member's home while
Vanessa Nelson: they're away for summer. I know she is supported by
Vanessa Nelson: a 24 hour mental health team and they check on
Vanessa Nelson: her every day.
Faydra Aldridge: You're listening to Look Again: Mental Illness Re-Examined a podcast
Faydra Aldridge: brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia Society and by partner organizations.
Faydra Aldridge: I'm your host, Faydra Aldridge. This podcast would not be
Faydra Aldridge: possible without the support of the community. From the bottom
Faydra Aldridge: of our hearts, we want to thank you for caring
Faydra Aldridge: about serious mental illness and everything that's around it. Together,
Faydra Aldridge: we truly can make a difference. Welcome back to Look Again.
Faydra Aldridge: Mental Illness Re-examined. In this episode, we're talking to Vanessa
Faydra Aldridge: about her daughter's experience with involuntary psychiatric treatment due to schizophrenia.
Faydra Aldridge: But before we continue and talk more about the B.C.
Faydra Aldridge: Mental Health Act, let's listen to this clip between two
Faydra Aldridge: people sharing their experiences with involuntary treatment.
Speaker 1: And you kind of treat it like someone that that
Speaker 1: can only wear hospital clothes. And it's kind of hard.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, too, every time I had
Speaker 1: a psych admission, I come out doing much better. The
Speaker 1: key part for my recovery was that I had to
Speaker 1: get sober, that I can't keep telling myself that dropping
Speaker 1: the Xanax, dropping mushrooms, dropping pot and hash and all
Speaker 1: these drugs and alcohol that was really helping me. So
Speaker 1: involuntary admissions to psych was a godsend for me because
Speaker 1: that got me to get stable again.
Speaker 3: For me, it was I think it was my first
Speaker 3: time when I was deep in psychosis. So I was
Speaker 3: 23 and yeah, I don't really remember a whole lot,
Speaker 3: but I do remember they handled it quite well. The
Speaker 3: involuntary admittance. I was pretty easygoing. Like I, I kind
Speaker 3: of knew that I had to go, but I didn't
Speaker 3: want to be there in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 3: So they kept me for quite a while. I wanted
Speaker 3: to leave every single day. It's like prison. It really
Speaker 3: feels like prison. I mean, I've never been to prison,
Speaker 3: so I can't necessarily say, but I've been to prison. It's. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's reassuring. Thank you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it really is. Is a truly unenjoyable experience.
Faydra Aldridge: Whoo! That was pretty powerful. Vanessa So after hearing that clip,
Faydra Aldridge: how does that compare to your daughter's experience when she
Faydra Aldridge: was taken into hospital under the Mental Health Act?
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, yeah. Very similar. It really is like prison. She
Vanessa Nelson: was stripped down and sprayed down and put by herself
Vanessa Nelson: in a cell because she was a danger to herself.
Vanessa Nelson: It was very difficult because not allowed to visit her.
Vanessa Nelson: It was so confusing and so heartbreaking.
Faydra Aldridge: When you care for someone, it is just so difficult
Faydra Aldridge: to see them hurting and to know what to do
Faydra Aldridge: to help them. Based on your personal experience, how do
Faydra Aldridge: you think we should be balancing this need to protect
Faydra Aldridge: our loved one and ensure that they get the help
Faydra Aldridge: that they need while also dealing with a feeling that
Faydra Aldridge: we could be potentially hurting that relationship with that person?
Faydra Aldridge: How do we balance this, Vanessa?
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, it is such a tough one. Obviously, communication strategies
Vanessa Nelson: like the LEAP method are so helpful. They have been
Vanessa Nelson: gold in helping me communicate with my daughter. And as
Vanessa Nelson: far as services, I just would love to see a
Vanessa Nelson: more care centered approach that the professionals who are involved
Vanessa Nelson: be utilized in that manner to offer a more comfort
Vanessa Nelson: based environment and the recognition that when people are in psychosis,
Vanessa Nelson: they are suffering and they are sick. I don't understand
Vanessa Nelson: how we can separate physical illness and mental illness, and
Vanessa Nelson: doing so causes so much stigma that our loved ones
Vanessa Nelson: are not getting the correct type of help for the
Vanessa Nelson: severity of their illnesses. Right. And I would like to
Vanessa Nelson: see them safe. There needs to be a safe place
Vanessa Nelson: for ill people to recover. And it's not on the streets. Honestly,
Vanessa Nelson: when my daughter is in psychosis, she's not capable of behaving.
Vanessa Nelson: She's not in reality. She thinks she is a superhero.
Vanessa Nelson: She thinks she talks to God. She thinks that she
Vanessa Nelson: is constantly being raped. She thinks that her family are
Vanessa Nelson: just even saying it out loud is a terrifying thing.
Vanessa Nelson: And that's just my case. I talk to people on
Vanessa Nelson: a daily basis who have experienced the same thing, and
Vanessa Nelson: their loved ones have died because there was no safe
Vanessa Nelson: place for them to go. So when we're talking in
Vanessa Nelson: voluntary treatment, so many of the people who need to
Vanessa Nelson: have involuntary treatment are not receiving it, and there's just
Vanessa Nelson: simply not enough space. The state courts for.
Faydra Aldridge: Yeah. Vanessa, my heart not only breaks for Mira that
Faydra Aldridge: she feels that in her mind that is a reality.
Faydra Aldridge: But my heart also breaks for you that you as
Faydra Aldridge: a mother have to witness your baby go through that
Faydra Aldridge: kind of trauma and that kind of pain.
Vanessa Nelson: It's definitely been quite constant heartbreak.
Faydra Aldridge: So, Vanessa, there would be a lot of mothers, siblings, aunts,
Faydra Aldridge: grandmothers listening to this right now. What advice would you
Faydra Aldridge: give somebody who has a daughter or a sister or
Faydra Aldridge: an uncle with a serious mental illness and they are
Faydra Aldridge: debating whether to call police and to get them into
Faydra Aldridge: hospital to get the help that they need and deserve?
Vanessa Nelson: I would say call. Make sure that when you call,
Vanessa Nelson: you request somebody who is very used to dealing with
Vanessa Nelson: mental health, because it's sometimes the moments that we've had
Vanessa Nelson: to make those emergency calls when people weren't trained in
Vanessa Nelson: mental health. They've gone very sideways. I would say to
Vanessa Nelson: you got to keep believing in them with all your heart.
Vanessa Nelson: Even when communication is not always possible because boundaries are important.
Vanessa Nelson: You can't put yourself in a potentially violent situation or
Vanessa Nelson: situation where you're getting hurt constantly or stolen from or
Vanessa Nelson: taken advantage of. So sometimes you've got to love them
Vanessa Nelson: from afar and just hope that somebody is taking care
Vanessa Nelson: of them, Right.
Faydra Aldridge: Well, so, Vanessa. Love them from afar when you have to,
Faydra Aldridge: but ensure that they get the help they need and
Faydra Aldridge: they may not like you at that moment.
Vanessa Nelson: Oh, no. She has been so livid at me for
Vanessa Nelson: phoning the police or the hospital.
Faydra Aldridge: That's a love of a mother, for sure. Yeah.
Vanessa Nelson: That's why I wanted to do this, because I have
Vanessa Nelson: been quiet. When she was first diagnosed, I didn't tell anybody.
Vanessa Nelson: I was just living in fear that somebody would find
Vanessa Nelson: out or see her. But this time, it's honestly been
Vanessa Nelson: so public. She has been banned at restaurants that I
Vanessa Nelson: go to for running through them, grabbing people's drinks and
Vanessa Nelson: throwing things. It's like everybody already knows anyway. Everybody's seen
Vanessa Nelson: my kids. Why not try and reframe it a little bit?
Vanessa Nelson: Because she is so awesome. I can't even stress that enough.
Vanessa Nelson: All of these people who are running around in psychosis
Vanessa Nelson: on the streets, they're awesome people. There's somebody awesome people
Vanessa Nelson: and they deserve just as much care. Somebody with cancer
Vanessa Nelson: and I am tired of her not getting it.
Faydra Aldridge: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. And
Faydra Aldridge: I just truly appreciate you sharing all of your experience
Faydra Aldridge: and sharing and talking about your beautiful daughter. And Vanessa,
Faydra Aldridge: you were just one of the many families struggling to
Faydra Aldridge: find ways to cope and to help their loved one
Faydra Aldridge: who lives with schizophrenia or another serious mental illness. And
Faydra Aldridge: the Mental Health Act, as we know, is a very
Faydra Aldridge: important resource and tool that families need access to. So
Faydra Aldridge: it's there when they need it. We need to keep
Faydra Aldridge: talking about this very important topic. So, Vanessa, thank you
Faydra Aldridge: again for sharing your thoughts on this issue and for
Faydra Aldridge: being so courageous to share your personal story.
Vanessa Nelson: You're very welcome.
Faydra Aldridge: Thank you. And a huge thank you to you, our audience,
Faydra Aldridge: for joining us for this episode. Together, we can change
Faydra Aldridge: the narrative around mental illnesses like schizophrenia and put an
Faydra Aldridge: end to the many myths and stereotypes that we were
Faydra Aldridge: talking about today. If you have any questions or comments,
Faydra Aldridge: tweet us at b c schizophrenia. And to get our
Faydra Aldridge: latest episode, be sure to hit follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Faydra Aldridge: or anywhere you listen to podcasts. We hope you can
Faydra Aldridge: join us next episode. Talk to you soon.
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Speaker 3: Use Information. We're a group of non-profit agencies providing good
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Speaker 3: their mental wellbeing. The B.C. Partners members are Anxiety Canada, B.C.
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Speaker 3: Shore Family Services Program and Mood Disorders Association of B.C.,
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