WEBVTT - Hearing Voices 0:00:00.060 --> 0:00:04.650 Welcome to Look again, mental illness re-examined, I'm Faydra Aldridge. 0:00:06.330 --> 0:00:09.570 Teddy, please, please don't do this. -- A year ago, 0:00:09.570 --> 0:00:11.010 I met a man who was down on his luck. 0:00:12.220 --> 0:00:15.450 He's got a gift. Thought I might be able to help. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:20.689 Are you out of your mind? 0:00:21.780 --> 0:00:22.820 She paints, she reads... 0:00:22.829 --> 0:00:25.350 Yeah, she paints, she reads, she lights things on fire. 0:00:25.370 --> 0:00:30.560 I got a fire extinguisher, just bring her. Help you? Do I look like I 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:38.240 could help you? What are you doing? You threw the goddamn ball into the fence -- you threw the ball into the fence - Christ almighty -- there's nobody there! 0:00:38.750 --> 0:00:41.360 John has Schizophrenia. P eople with this disorder are often paranoid... I'm not. 0:00:47.020 --> 0:00:51.370 If Hollywood is to be believed, all people with schizophrenia 0:00:51.370 --> 0:00:55.360 hear voices telling them to do bad things. The truth, though, 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.840 is a little more complex than that. Hearing voices can 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.110 be a symptom of mental illness. Some people do hear 0:01:02.110 --> 0:01:06.220 voices or experience other kinds of hallucinations, of course, but 0:01:06.370 --> 0:01:12.039 others do not. Some hallucinations are actually not negative or violent. Well, 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.700 some cause a person to want to harm themselves or others. 0:01:16.630 --> 0:01:20.410 So what's it really like to hear voices anyway? Why 0:01:20.410 --> 0:01:23.649 is there so much stigma around this? And what can 0:01:23.650 --> 0:01:26.620 we do about it if we do encounter someone who 0:01:26.620 --> 0:01:30.880 seems to be experiencing hallucinations? These are just some of 0:01:30.910 --> 0:01:33.940 the fascinating questions we're going to be looking at on 0:01:33.940 --> 0:01:47.130 today's episode of Look Again. Today, I'm very happy to 0:01:47.130 --> 0:01:50.790 introduce you to Dr. Randall White. Dr. White is the 0:01:50.790 --> 0:01:54.780 medical director of Community Mental Health in Vancouver and the 0:01:54.780 --> 0:01:59.040 clinical director of the BC Psychosis Program at UBC Hospital. 0:01:59.550 --> 0:02:02.700 He is also a clinical professor of psychiatry at UBC 0:02:02.850 --> 0:02:06.450 and on the Medical Advisory Board of the BC Schizophrenia Society. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.380 And Dr. White has also been awarded the status of 0:02:10.380 --> 0:02:15.120 Distinguished Fellow by the American Psychiatric Association this year. Randall, 0:02:15.450 --> 0:02:16.560 welcome to Look Again. 0:02:17.010 --> 0:02:17.750 Thank you, Faydra. 0:02:18.180 --> 0:02:20.730 Now, before we really get into things, I want to 0:02:20.730 --> 0:02:23.519 kick things off by sharing some thoughts from our panel. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.300 We're going to hear from some people with lived experience 0:02:27.419 --> 0:02:31.170 about what it's actually like to hear voices. So let's 0:02:31.169 --> 0:02:32.070 take a listen now. 0:02:32.970 --> 0:02:40.739 I have experienced auditory hallucinations and olfactory hallucinations and physical hallucinations. 0:02:41.190 --> 0:02:47.010 I thought I was in labor and that was very interesting, 0:02:47.130 --> 0:02:49.920 to say the least. Needless to say, I didn't go 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.010 to the hospital. My family was with me and they said, oh, 0:02:55.020 --> 0:03:00.690 it's just your imagination, which I accepted. And then I 0:03:00.900 --> 0:03:05.460 had olfactory hallucinations where I smell things. 0:03:06.250 --> 0:03:10.579 I started hearing audio hallucinations again and they actually were 0:03:10.590 --> 0:03:12.990 about hallucinations. And I actually get up on the psych 0:03:12.990 --> 0:03:16.550 ward and I don't know if you feel like I 0:03:17.169 --> 0:03:20.880 don't have to listen this. So but yeah, I did 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:22.830 have them anyways and it just kind of scared me just 0:03:22.980 --> 0:03:25.980 having them. So I went to the psych ward and 0:03:25.980 --> 0:03:29.100 I'm doing much better. I was really, really anxious when 0:03:29.100 --> 0:03:30.390 I took myself to the psych ward. 0:03:30.750 --> 0:03:34.320 So those were some thoughts from our panel. People living 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.210 with mental illness, pretty powerful. Dr. White, we just heard 0:03:39.210 --> 0:03:41.580 from people living with mental illness and the fact that 0:03:41.580 --> 0:03:45.240 many of them hear voices, but not all people with 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:50.190 schizophrenia hear voices. In your clinical experience, how prevalent is 0:03:50.190 --> 0:03:50.830 this symptom? 0:03:51.420 --> 0:03:55.950 Hallucinations are one of the five main symptoms listed in 0:03:55.950 --> 0:04:01.920 the diagnostic manual we use to diagnose schizophrenia. They're very common, 0:04:02.190 --> 0:04:05.820 but as you said, they're not universal. I would say 0:04:05.820 --> 0:04:10.020 that probably three quarters or more of people with schizophrenia 0:04:10.020 --> 0:04:13.680 experience that at some point it can be episodic. So 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.730 at a given time, somebody with this diagnosis might not 0:04:17.730 --> 0:04:20.580 be having that, but then we may have relapse or 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.710 illness gets worse. It may come back. 0:04:22.990 --> 0:04:27.300 You talk about psychosis and sometimes I've heard people use 0:04:27.300 --> 0:04:31.380 schizophrenia and the term psychosis as the same term they 0:04:31.380 --> 0:04:34.200 use it synonymously. Can we delve into that? Because hearing 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.860 voices is a symptom of psychosis, which is associated with 0:04:37.860 --> 0:04:40.950 many mental illnesses, not just schizophrenia. Can you tell us 0:04:40.950 --> 0:04:41.700 more about that? 0:04:41.970 --> 0:04:48.599 Correct. Hallucinations, hearing voices or auditory hallucinations is one symptom 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:53.250 of psychosis, and psychosis refers to an abnormal state of 0:04:53.250 --> 0:04:57.600 mind that could be due to any variety of causes. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.710 Schizophrenia is one one of the more common causes of 0:05:01.980 --> 0:05:06.479 especially chronic or ongoing hallucinations. When we talk about psychosis 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.620 in general, we talk about this abnormal mental state that 0:05:10.620 --> 0:05:14.310 lasts for anywhere from usually days to weeks. And in 0:05:14.310 --> 0:05:18.300 the case of schizophrenia, it could be years. Another common 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:24.210 form of psychosis is schizoaffective disorder, which is similar to schizophrenia, 0:05:24.210 --> 0:05:28.890 but also has elements of depression or mania or mood 0:05:28.890 --> 0:05:31.130 problems mixed in as well. 0:05:31.890 --> 0:05:34.320 We all hear voices right now. There's a voice in 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.320 my head saying, sit up, don't talk so fast, remember 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.980 to breathe. So how do we know the difference between 0:05:41.010 --> 0:05:43.590 the voice that's in... or example, my head right now, 0:05:43.589 --> 0:05:47.370 my inner voice and an auditory hallucination? 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.890 Well, yeah, we talk about our inner voice. And another 0:05:52.890 --> 0:05:57.360 way people describe that is maybe their conscience. That's not 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.659 what people with schizophrenia are experiencing when they talk about 0:06:00.660 --> 0:06:04.740 hearing voices. They talk about an experience that's very similar 0:06:04.740 --> 0:06:08.430 to what our listeners are having right now, where someone 0:06:08.430 --> 0:06:12.239 else is talking to them. They don't necessarily call it 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.180 their inner voice. They call it often an alien voice 0:06:16.180 --> 0:06:19.800 that's coming from outside their head. Sometimes it sounds more 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.860 like it's hitting their head, but it can vary. But 0:06:22.860 --> 0:06:26.489 frequently it's completely alien. They may or may not give 0:06:26.500 --> 0:06:30.240 an identity to it. It may say things that seem 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.710 totally uncharacteristic for the thoughts they usually have. It may 0:06:34.710 --> 0:06:38.909 tell them to do risky, dangerous things. And so it's 0:06:38.910 --> 0:06:42.659 a very compelling experience in many cases that could lead 0:06:42.660 --> 0:06:47.000 to irresponsible or dangerous. That's very different from what we 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.669 might call our inner voice or our conscience or even 0:06:49.670 --> 0:06:51.320 our repetitive thoughts, 0:06:51.779 --> 0:06:55.640 And when we think about auditory hallucinations, there are many 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.179 other kinds, and you alluded to this earlier, including tactile, 0:06:59.210 --> 0:07:01.400 which you don't really hear a lot about. Can we 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.430 talk about those other hallucinations that we may not hear 0:07:04.430 --> 0:07:05.060 a lot about? 0:07:05.300 --> 0:07:11.000 Yes. So in psychosis and especially in schizophrenia, the hallucinations 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:15.170 can occur in any sense. We call them sensory modalities. 0:07:15.170 --> 0:07:20.750 So touch, smell, vision and hearing, of course, so people 0:07:20.750 --> 0:07:26.000 can have visual hallucinations, they can see other people, they 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.930 can see animals or other things that aren't present. They 0:07:29.930 --> 0:07:33.290 can have odors, they can smell strange things, even their 0:07:33.290 --> 0:07:37.250 taste can be distorted. And then they can feel things 0:07:37.250 --> 0:07:40.850 on their skin like someone is touching them. That may 0:07:40.850 --> 0:07:43.790 be very complex. They may feel as though they're being 0:07:43.790 --> 0:07:48.200 sexually assaulted, which is obviously very distressing. These can occur 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.040 in different combinations. So they might hear the voice and 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.920 then they feel something and they think someone is trying 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.100 to harm them or possess them. And that can lead 0:07:58.100 --> 0:08:02.300 into another symptom, very common in psychosis, which is delusions. 0:08:02.300 --> 0:08:06.740 Delusions are false beliefs. So somebody who's having a hallucination 0:08:06.740 --> 0:08:09.190 where they feel like they're being sexually assaulted may then 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:13.460 develop a delusion that an unseen person or their neighbor 0:08:13.490 --> 0:08:16.550 or whoever is repeatedly assaulting them. 0:08:17.090 --> 0:08:22.070 Now, if somebody does experience hallucinations, what are some treatment 0:08:22.070 --> 0:08:24.640 options with schizophrenia? 0:08:25.100 --> 0:08:30.380 The cause is not completely understood. Therefore, we only have 0:08:30.380 --> 0:08:36.350 treatments that can sometimes partially, sometimes fully suppress that symptom, 0:08:36.350 --> 0:08:41.390 but not necessarily cure it. And it comes down to medications, 0:08:41.390 --> 0:08:45.620 antipsychotic medications. At the same time, I should mention, we 0:08:45.620 --> 0:08:50.240 have some psychological and behavioral interventions that can help as well. 0:08:50.510 --> 0:08:53.780 They won't necessarily eliminate it, but it can help people 0:08:53.780 --> 0:08:57.400 to manage the distress that goes along with the experience 0:08:57.980 --> 0:09:02.480 You're listening to. Look Again, Mental Illness Re-Examined, a podcast 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.700 brought to you by the BC Schizophrenia Society and B.C. 0:09:05.750 --> 0:09:11.240 partner organizations. I'm your host, Faydra Aldridge . This podcast would 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.809 not be possible without the support of the entire community. 0:09:15.290 --> 0:09:17.660 From the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank 0:09:17.660 --> 0:09:21.829 you for caring about mental illness together. We truly can 0:09:21.830 --> 0:09:27.650 make a difference. So we're speaking with Dr. White about hallucinations, earlier, 0:09:27.650 --> 0:09:29.929 we heard from people with lived experience and what it's 0:09:29.929 --> 0:09:33.050 like to experience these hallucinations, and now we're going to 0:09:33.050 --> 0:09:36.020 hear from family members and what it's like for them 0:09:36.020 --> 0:09:38.330 to see a loved one experiencing them. 0:09:39.170 --> 0:09:42.320 I remember one day coming home, it still upsets me 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.579 to this day. He was walking around my living room 0:09:46.580 --> 0:09:50.150 and then just kneeling, staring, and then slowly get up 0:09:50.150 --> 0:09:52.100 and take a few steps to the left or the 0:09:52.100 --> 0:09:54.470 right and he'd kneel down on one knee again. And 0:09:54.470 --> 0:09:56.960 he did that -- just in a circle in my living room. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.050 And I just couldn't reach him in that moment, just 0:10:00.050 --> 0:10:04.040 watching his body move so slowly in response to something 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.510 that I couldn't see or hear. It's quite it's very terrifying. 0:10:07.790 --> 0:10:11.060 I mean, I remember those those years. And I'm just 0:10:11.059 --> 0:10:12.800 so grateful that we're past those. 0:10:15.070 --> 0:10:18.700 The feeling of helplessness, not not so much fear, but 0:10:18.700 --> 0:10:23.059 you just see the torment that these folks are going through. 0:10:23.110 --> 0:10:27.010 It's just distressing to see them. Sometimes it's his paranoia 0:10:27.010 --> 0:10:31.980 how it bothers him. And it's there. It's really unfortunate. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.350 There are places where people have tried to reproduce auditory 0:10:35.350 --> 0:10:39.220 hallucinations on YouTube. And if some of those are true, 0:10:39.220 --> 0:10:42.730 it is scary if if in fact those renditions are 0:10:42.730 --> 0:10:45.460 even close to what people are hearing in their heads. 0:10:45.730 --> 0:10:51.100 And I just feel so, so sad for the torture 0:10:51.100 --> 0:10:54.880 that this symptom gives to gives to these folks, to 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:55.500 my sons. 0:10:57.309 --> 0:11:00.610 You can just see the torment that they're going through 0:11:00.850 --> 0:11:04.420 and how how badly he felt about himself because of 0:11:04.420 --> 0:11:07.689 what the voices were telling him about how awful he was. 0:11:07.690 --> 0:11:09.970 And he's going to go to hell. You know, he 0:11:09.970 --> 0:11:12.850 didn't want to live anymore. You wanted to be put 0:11:12.850 --> 0:11:14.800 out of his misery when he was so afraid they 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.370 were right that he's going to go to hell. 0:11:17.860 --> 0:11:20.560 I can see my son's eyes. They go flat when 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.470 he's somewhere else. They were a comfort to him and 0:11:23.470 --> 0:11:26.199 they told him he was really smart. But they also 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.210 warned him that people were after him all the time 0:11:28.210 --> 0:11:33.400 and stuff, too. So that's been stolen, the candle is blown out, feeling pretty awful 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.630 to witness in your child. 0:11:39.179 --> 0:11:42.420 So those were just a few thoughts from some family members, 0:11:42.420 --> 0:11:46.050 from our family panel made up of families of people 0:11:46.050 --> 0:11:48.570 with schizophrenia. And we asked them to share what it's 0:11:48.570 --> 0:11:53.069 like to witness someone who is experiencing active hallucinations from 0:11:53.070 --> 0:11:57.360 the outside. We're back with Dr. Randall White, clinical professor 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.720 in the U.S. Department of Psychiatry and distinguished fellow in 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.890 the American Psychiatric Association. Randall, that was tough to hear 0:12:05.010 --> 0:12:07.830 families express. Obviously, a lot of concern about seeing their 0:12:07.830 --> 0:12:10.830 loved one going through psychosis. And it's not easy to see. 0:12:10.830 --> 0:12:13.560 It certainly wasn't easy to to listen to, that's for sure. 0:12:14.220 --> 0:12:17.460 So in your experience, what does it look like from 0:12:17.460 --> 0:12:20.069 the outside for someone to witness that? 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:27.329 Well, I know that this is a really mystifying disease 0:12:27.330 --> 0:12:34.080 for families or for anyone who is observing. And it 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:40.140 can look different, obviously, because everyone is unique. But I 0:12:40.140 --> 0:12:44.760 think one of the family members was describing somebody probably 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.449 in the midst of of hearing intense voices who was 0:12:48.450 --> 0:12:53.010 kind of overwhelmed by it, showing a lot of disorganized 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:58.710 or amped up behavior, doing repetitive movement. And that's something 0:12:58.710 --> 0:13:01.910 that I observed. And the patients that I treat commonly, 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:08.730 they have gestures or pacing, grimacing, talking to themselves, laughing, 0:13:08.730 --> 0:13:12.510 all those things. And it's the hallmark of what I 0:13:12.510 --> 0:13:17.280 guess historically was called madness. Sometimes it's clear that the 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.760 patients are in anguish. Other times they might smile and 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.880 laugh and it might look like they're enjoying themselves. But 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.370 at the same time, we know they're cut off from 0:13:26.370 --> 0:13:29.070 others around them when they're in this experience and it 0:13:29.070 --> 0:13:33.209 takes them away from meaningful relationships. And that's what hurts 0:13:33.210 --> 0:13:34.410 the family so much. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.970 So I'd like to talk about the danger part of it. 0:13:38.429 --> 0:13:41.640 How much of a danger to others is someone in 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.069 the state likely to be? Because I think there's a 0:13:44.070 --> 0:13:45.980 lot of misconceptions around this. 0:13:46.380 --> 0:13:50.490 People with schizophrenia are more likely to be harmed or 0:13:50.490 --> 0:13:53.819 assaulted than they are to commit an assault or to 0:13:53.820 --> 0:13:57.570 commit murder. And they're actually quite vulnerable when they're in 0:13:57.570 --> 0:14:01.560 that state. They're vulnerable to being exploited because they're not 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.439 as aware of their surroundings to getting, let's say, hit 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.380 by a car. At the same time, it's important to 0:14:07.380 --> 0:14:11.520 be truthful and honest about the fact that certain kinds 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:16.230 of psychosis do elevate the risk for assault or harming 0:14:16.230 --> 0:14:20.580 other people, because people who are very paranoid and fearful 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:26.130 may react unpredictably. In some cases, people with psychosis can 0:14:26.130 --> 0:14:31.290 develop a very intense, specific delusion about maybe someone in 0:14:31.290 --> 0:14:35.970 their environment. It's rare, but it does happen. But I 0:14:36.020 --> 0:14:40.410 still need to emphasize that the average person with schizophrenia 0:14:40.410 --> 0:14:44.400 who is not adequately cared for and treated wandering on 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.990 the street is really not dangerous to the public at large. 0:14:49.380 --> 0:14:52.440 I've been hearing this term a lot lately, psychotic breaks. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.220 So I'd love to get your professional opinion on the 0:14:56.220 --> 0:15:00.960 difference between hearing voices and an actual psychotic break. What 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.340 is a difference between those two? 0:15:02.580 --> 0:15:07.560 Well, psychotic break is it's not actually a diagnosis. It's 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.410 it's a term that we use a bit casually. The 0:15:10.410 --> 0:15:14.850 word break refers to a break with reality that sometimes 0:15:14.850 --> 0:15:19.620 our psychosis is characterized because in the psychotic state of mind, 0:15:19.620 --> 0:15:24.360 the person is preoccupied with these internal things that don't 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.700 reflect reality. A psychotic break means the person becomes psychotic, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.660 and it often refers to the first episode of psychosis. 0:15:33.810 --> 0:15:38.430 Sometimes we call it the first break episode. Sometimes it 0:15:38.430 --> 0:15:42.900 occurs abruptly, sometimes and more often it's rather gradual. And 0:15:42.900 --> 0:15:45.210 it typically would involve hearing voices... 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.280 If we ignore the fact that one out of a 0:15:50.290 --> 0:15:56.130 hundred people have schizophrenia and even more experience psychosis. So 0:15:56.130 --> 0:16:00.540 if we as a society choose to either ignore or 0:16:01.590 --> 0:16:07.020 keep it hidden that these illnesses exist, where will that 0:16:07.020 --> 0:16:07.680 take us? 0:16:08.010 --> 0:16:12.330 I think the fear, the stigma result in the people 0:16:12.330 --> 0:16:15.900 affected in the patients, so to speak, not getting the 0:16:15.900 --> 0:16:19.770 care they need. So it just prolongs, I think, suffering 0:16:20.070 --> 0:16:26.000 when there's ignorance and stigma attached to an illness. 0:16:26.220 --> 0:16:29.130 I'd like to talk about stigma. And I think stigma 0:16:29.130 --> 0:16:30.690 is a huge part of this, which is why I'm 0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:33.930 so happy we're doing this podcast. Randall, what do you think? 0:16:33.930 --> 0:16:37.350 As a frontline clinician, what do you think we can 0:16:37.350 --> 0:16:40.580 do as a society? To start to break down those 0:16:40.580 --> 0:16:45.740 silos and to really address the stigma associated with serious 0:16:45.740 --> 0:16:46.480 mental illness, 0:16:47.030 --> 0:16:51.380 Although it's still substantial that stigma, I think there is 0:16:51.380 --> 0:16:54.740 some improvement. But, you know, there are plenty of books, 0:16:54.740 --> 0:16:58.340 you know, memoirs people have written about their experiences. So 0:16:58.340 --> 0:17:01.250 I think, you know, when we have people who can 0:17:01.250 --> 0:17:04.490 talk about their experience, that helps a lot more than 0:17:04.490 --> 0:17:07.700 some doctor preaching to the public. I think I think 0:17:07.700 --> 0:17:11.560 things like what the Schizophrenia Society does like this, a 0:17:11.570 --> 0:17:15.920 podcast to try to demystify, I think, getting family members, 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.320 if they're able to write into newspapers, op ed, you know, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.859 talking about how important it is to to stop stigmatizing 0:17:24.859 --> 0:17:28.310 and to be honest about mental illness. And I know 0:17:28.310 --> 0:17:32.270 that families and schizophrenia society are very active in their communities. 0:17:32.300 --> 0:17:34.240 So basically, it's a team effort. 0:17:34.940 --> 0:17:37.820 Well Randall, thank you so much for joining me today. 0:17:37.830 --> 0:17:41.120 So that was Dr. Randall White. And we will be 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.630 sure one hundred percent to post all our relevant links and 0:17:44.630 --> 0:17:48.360 items we talked about today from our conversation on our website. 0:17:48.410 --> 0:17:55.040 That website, again, w w w dot BCSS dot org. Dr. White. Thank 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:56.510 you so much for joining us today. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:58.070 It was a pleasure. 0:17:58.700 --> 0:18:01.610 And now it's time to thank my incredible guests today 0:18:01.619 --> 0:18:05.360 on Look Again, Mental Illness Re-Examined. And I want to thank 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:11.480 you for listening. Your support means absolutely everything. Mental illness 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.979 literacy is so important. It's important to you, to me 0:18:16.250 --> 0:18:19.550 and to us as an entire society. We have to 0:18:19.550 --> 0:18:22.429 talk about this. And together, I know we can do 0:18:22.430 --> 0:18:25.820 a better job of taking action. Talk to you soon. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.150 This podcast is brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia 0:18:31.150 --> 0:18:34.120 Society and the B.C. Partners for Mental Health and Substance 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.540 Use Information, where a group of non-profit agencies providing good 0:18:37.540 --> 0:18:41.230 quality information to help individuals and families maintain or improve 0:18:41.230 --> 0:18:45.250 their mental well-being. The B.C. Partners Members are Anxiety. Canada, 0:18:45.250 --> 0:18:49.930 BC Schizophrenia Society, Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. Canadian 0:18:49.930 --> 0:18:54.310 Mental Health Associations, B.C. Division, Family Smart, Jessie's Legacy, the 0:18:54.310 --> 0:18:58.600 North Shore Family Services Program and Mood Disorders Association of B.C., 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.510 a branch of Lookout, Housing and Health Society. The B.C. 0:19:01.510 --> 0:19:04.570 partners are funded and stewarded by B.C. 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