WEBVTT - The Truth Behind Psychiatric Medication 0:00:02.500 --> 0:00:07.030 My name is Faydra Aldridge. Welcome to Look Again. Mental Illness Re-examined, 0:00:07.150 --> 0:00:10.480 a podcast brought to you by the BC Schizophrenia Society, 0:00:10.660 --> 0:00:15.670 otherwise known as BCSS, as well as our partner organizations. 0:00:19.010 --> 0:00:21.680 Well, I've been tried on eight different medications, 0:00:21.860 --> 0:00:26.419 ... a lot of the "hundred yard stare" drugs and "hurt your heart" drugs, 0:00:26.420 --> 0:00:31.130 and finally, a doctor tried the Paliperidone, and that has 0:00:31.130 --> 0:00:32.380 really worked well for us, so... 0:00:32.780 --> 0:00:36.170 Risperidone, with some dosage adjustment, but that worked well for her. 0:00:37.820 --> 0:00:40.940 ...on Abilify, and a number of other medications. But he takes that one on a 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:42.050 monthly injection, 0:00:42.260 --> 0:00:45.650 ...countless combinations and dosages, and you just end up with 0:00:45.650 --> 0:00:48.260 this casserole of medications. 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.720 Some people with serious mental illness don't like the idea 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.170 of taking medication for a variety of reasons, and some 0:00:58.170 --> 0:01:01.290 families of people with mental illness often struggle against the 0:01:01.290 --> 0:01:04.260 need to take medication because they see it as hindering 0:01:04.260 --> 0:01:08.310 a person's quality of life. On today's episode of Look Again, 0:01:08.340 --> 0:01:12.150 we're asking what's at the root of the hesitation around 0:01:12.150 --> 0:01:15.690 using meds to treat serious mental illness? And how do 0:01:15.690 --> 0:01:19.980 the medications used to treat disorders such as schizophrenia actually 0:01:19.980 --> 0:01:23.759 work on the brain? Why is it so important to 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.490 start treatment early? These are just a few of the 0:01:26.490 --> 0:01:29.640 questions we're going to be tackling. Also, we're going to 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.640 be exploring the public perception of what it looks like 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.080 when people are "on" or "off" their meds. Our collective 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.830 literacy with these signs and symptoms is critical to preventing 0:01:41.010 --> 0:01:46.290 negative interactions, both systemic and personal, with people who suffer 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:54.300 from mental illness. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Fidel Vila-Rodriguez from 0:01:54.300 --> 0:01:59.340 the Department of Psychiatry at UBC. As a clinician-scientist, Fidel 0:01:59.340 --> 0:02:03.450 does research looking at the neurobiology of psychiatric illnesses and 0:02:03.450 --> 0:02:07.830 considers the clinical applications of this knowledge. So in other words, 0:02:07.950 --> 0:02:10.890 he looks at the biology of mental illness and how 0:02:10.889 --> 0:02:14.340 we can actually use that information in a clinical setting 0:02:14.340 --> 0:02:18.990 to actually help people. So, Dr. Rodriguez, we are so 0:02:18.990 --> 0:02:21.960 happy you're here today to not only talk about medication, 0:02:22.169 --> 0:02:25.890 but also about other treatments that work in conjunction with 0:02:25.889 --> 0:02:29.430 medications that can potentially help people who are affected by 0:02:29.430 --> 0:02:33.960 serious mental illness. Fidel, I'm intrigued. I'm excited. Welcome to 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:34.420 the show. 0:02:34.650 --> 0:02:39.150 Thank you so much, Faydra. It's a great opportunity. And 0:02:39.150 --> 0:02:43.410 I really appreciate being here this afternoon to have this 0:02:43.410 --> 0:02:46.370 conversation about this very important topic. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.320 So a minute ago, we heard the voices of some 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.950 people with schizophrenia and their families listing off names of 0:02:52.950 --> 0:02:55.020 some of the drugs that they need to take for 0:02:55.020 --> 0:02:59.250 their symptoms. Now, there is a lot of complicated names, 0:02:59.490 --> 0:03:02.489 and it can be really difficult to figure out what 0:03:02.490 --> 0:03:05.520 a drug does. So tell us, what are some of 0:03:05.550 --> 0:03:10.050 the most common medications prescribed for people with schizophrenia? 0:03:10.230 --> 0:03:14.940 Absolutely. And I'd like to take just one minute to 0:03:14.940 --> 0:03:19.500 back up and perhaps make emphasis on why do we 0:03:19.500 --> 0:03:23.760 give medications to treat schizophrenia? And I think it's important 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:29.940 to emphasize that schizophrenia is an illness that affects the brain. 0:03:30.669 --> 0:03:36.210 And what we know is that the illness affects the 0:03:36.210 --> 0:03:43.380 brain in a way that makes symptoms like voices, hallucinations 0:03:43.980 --> 0:03:50.369 or delusions or these very nagging negative symptoms, which means 0:03:50.550 --> 0:03:55.380 things like a person does not have the strength and 0:03:55.860 --> 0:03:59.940 does not have that drive to do things. So that's 0:03:59.940 --> 0:04:04.170 because the brain is affected by the illness and it's 0:04:04.170 --> 0:04:08.490 not working. Well, one of the key medications that has 0:04:08.490 --> 0:04:12.660 been around now since the 1950s when they were first 0:04:12.660 --> 0:04:18.720 described is called antipsychotics or before they were called neuroleptics. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:23.880 They described generically the same class of medications. These are 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.640 medications that when we take them, they go to the 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:34.560 brain and their mechanism of action is on something called 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:39.690 dopamine receptors. One of the mechanisms and one of the 0:04:39.690 --> 0:04:44.730 things that happens when someone is suffering schizophrenia and having 0:04:45.210 --> 0:04:50.159 delusions or hallucinations is that there is a state of, 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.880 so to speak, too much dopamine acting in the brain. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:00.540 And so what these medications do is work on the 0:05:00.540 --> 0:05:07.500 dopamine receptors to allow this "too much dopamine" in the brain to go down, 0:05:07.500 --> 0:05:14.420 and treating the symptoms. So antipsychotics are one of these medications. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.660 When do you decide that a person does, in fact, 0:05:18.660 --> 0:05:21.340 require this antipsychotic medication? 0:05:21.660 --> 0:05:27.450 That's an excellent question. And while there are times when 0:05:28.260 --> 0:05:32.520 it might not be entirely clear that medications are needed 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:37.500 or not, the majority of the times when someone gets 0:05:37.500 --> 0:05:41.490 to a point that they need to seek help and 0:05:42.029 --> 0:05:45.420 they need to see a physician, a mental health professional, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.560 it means that what drives that need is some sort 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.500 of impact on their lives. So I think that's very 0:05:52.500 --> 0:05:57.000 important to emphasize as well. This illness, schizophrenia, this illness 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.300 of the brain affects people in such a profound way 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.810 that it gets in the way in life. And that 0:06:03.810 --> 0:06:07.140 can look different ways. It can look, a person does 0:06:07.140 --> 0:06:10.560 not do well at school (when they were doing fine) 0:06:11.010 --> 0:06:16.589 and struggles a lot. A person starts not seeing their friends, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.599 not socializing when they before were doing that, they might 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.380 not be able to perform at work, or all of 0:06:25.380 --> 0:06:29.099 the above. So there's an "impact on functioning" that we call it. 0:06:29.100 --> 0:06:34.200 So the symptoms, the delusions, the hallucinations, the negative symptoms 0:06:34.470 --> 0:06:37.680 get in the way in life. And that's what we 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.909 assess when I see a person who's struggling and the 0:06:41.910 --> 0:06:46.409 person shares with me that they are having these symptoms, and 0:06:46.410 --> 0:06:49.340 I ask them whether they are getting in the way. If it 0:06:49.339 --> 0:06:52.039 becomes obvious that they are getting in the way in 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.330 a big way, they're interfering a lot with their functioning, 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.789 it becomes clear that we need to do something to 0:06:58.790 --> 0:07:00.570 treat the symptoms. 0:07:01.220 --> 0:07:04.940 So what is the response that you typically get when 0:07:04.940 --> 0:07:08.029 you have to tell an individual or a family that 0:07:08.060 --> 0:07:09.469 they do require medication? 0:07:09.710 --> 0:07:14.600 It varies. And there's obviously a range of responses. Sometimes 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:19.190 there's a reaction of disbelief. It could be in both 0:07:19.190 --> 0:07:23.270 families and the person in trying to come to terms 0:07:23.300 --> 0:07:29.180 with the diagnosis. It's a normal, understandable reaction from families, 0:07:29.180 --> 0:07:32.630 from the person suffering the symptoms. And the task at 0:07:32.630 --> 0:07:37.160 hand is to really go over the impact that those 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:42.380 symptoms are having and together work through, really realizing, look, 0:07:42.380 --> 0:07:47.510 this goes beyond really what you would expect from this breakup, 0:07:47.510 --> 0:07:51.020 from this stress at work, and it's really interfering in 0:07:51.020 --> 0:07:54.560 your life. We need to treat. Now for people suffering 0:07:55.190 --> 0:07:59.870 from this schizophrenia, there is a particular symptom that is 0:07:59.870 --> 0:08:03.560 very challenging. We call it "lack of insight." It can 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:08.600 be understood as lack of awareness. We take for granted 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.360 a lot of the things that our brains do for 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.370 us from walking from paying attention to things, from speaking. 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.760 One of the things that our brain does is it 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:24.260 allows us to be aware of our environment, of how 0:08:24.260 --> 0:08:27.860 we are doing, where we are thirsty, whether we are hungry. 0:08:27.890 --> 0:08:31.310 It also makes us aware whether we are struggling with 0:08:31.310 --> 0:08:35.719 pain or with any other symptoms. In schizophrenia, it's difficult 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.040 to realize that they are struggling with a medical illness. 0:08:40.190 --> 0:08:43.460 That's the lack of insight. So what follows is if 0:08:43.460 --> 0:08:47.600 a person has difficulty to realize that they are suffering 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.050 an illness, why would they need treatment? And so that 0:08:51.050 --> 0:08:53.500 is a very challenging situation. 0:08:54.290 --> 0:08:57.530 What you said there is that it's something inherent in 0:08:57.530 --> 0:09:01.609 the illness itself. And that's what would make it so difficult, because, 0:09:01.610 --> 0:09:04.040 as you said, how could somebody say and put up 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.729 their hand and say, I need help, I need treatment, if 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.870 they don't realize that they're even ill? They don't, if they no 0:09:11.870 --> 0:09:16.130 longer have the ability to recognize that they have an illness. 0:09:16.130 --> 0:09:21.110 And the other aspect is the symptoms that the illness 0:09:21.110 --> 0:09:26.810 causes generate an experience in the person that is suffering them. 0:09:26.809 --> 0:09:31.670 And their experience is real. It's what they are experiencing. 0:09:32.030 --> 0:09:36.260 It's like pain. You can't explain to someone else what 0:09:36.260 --> 0:09:39.589 you are feeling. You feel the pain all the people 0:09:39.590 --> 0:09:42.610 might understand, but they don't really feel it. 0:09:43.220 --> 0:09:47.750 So now let's talk about other treatments. And I know 0:09:47.750 --> 0:09:53.810 that some of your research focuses on non-invasive neurostimulation therapies. 0:09:54.140 --> 0:09:56.780 That's quite a mouthful. So can you tell us a 0:09:56.780 --> 0:09:59.260 little bit about this type of treatment? 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:04.220 Absolutely. So the mouthful -- what it means -- is that there 0:10:04.220 --> 0:10:08.990 are ways of treating medical illnesses, illnesses of the brain, 0:10:09.350 --> 0:10:13.970 that do not involve using a chemical like a medication. 0:10:13.970 --> 0:10:17.179 The brain is similar to the heart in that it's 0:10:17.179 --> 0:10:22.040 an electrical organ. When we generate thoughts, when we walk, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.280 when we do anything that our brain is involved in, it 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:32.210 generates tiny little current. And what these non-invasive neurostimulation therapies do, 0:10:32.420 --> 0:10:38.840 is leverage that principle of electricity and use currents to 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.640 stimulate the brain. And they can do this in different ways. 0:10:43.860 --> 0:10:47.390 One of the treatments that's been around for a long 0:10:47.390 --> 0:10:51.890 time and that, still to this date, unfortunately, is still controversial, 0:10:52.250 --> 0:10:58.010 is called electroconvulsive therapy or ECT. And it's still to 0:10:58.010 --> 0:11:03.590 this date, the most effective treatment we've got for depression. 0:11:03.980 --> 0:11:10.220 And it's also very effective to treat schizophrenia. This treatment 0:11:10.370 --> 0:11:15.980 leverage s a very counterintuitive mechanism. What we do is, 0:11:16.610 --> 0:11:21.830 when a person is under general anaesthesia, we trigger a 0:11:21.830 --> 0:11:26.510 seizure in the brain with external current. When that happens, 0:11:26.510 --> 0:11:29.930 when we trigger a controlled seizure, there are a lot 0:11:29.929 --> 0:11:32.960 of good things that happen in the brain. One of them, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.340 for example, is there's a release and regulation of those 0:11:37.340 --> 0:11:41.360 dopamine levels that we talked about earlier with medication. So 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.500 what ECT accomplishes in the context of treating schizophrenia is 0:11:45.500 --> 0:11:50.050 it helps regulating, as well, the dopamine levels in the brain. 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.660 Tell us about CBT. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:57.050 So now we are transitioning from these treatments that leverage 0:11:57.050 --> 0:12:02.569 currents to treatments that rely on talk therapy and traditional 0:12:02.570 --> 0:12:10.040 CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy. The way that CBT usually 0:12:10.190 --> 0:12:18.400 is structured is, the person suffering schizophrenia works with their therapist, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:27.260 and they work together to identify these "cognitive biases," meaning 0:12:27.260 --> 0:12:31.610 jumping to conclusions, for example. And so by looking at 0:12:31.610 --> 0:12:36.170 these patterns of thinking and trying to work with the person, 0:12:36.170 --> 0:12:40.610 then identifying how to modify them not only during the session, 0:12:40.610 --> 0:12:44.780 but after the session and in between sessions, doing homework 0:12:44.780 --> 0:12:49.670 and identifying these patterns, eventually it helps the person to 0:12:49.670 --> 0:12:54.500 leverage these tools and catch whenever they go into this 0:12:54.860 --> 0:12:55.979 thinking pattern. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:02.870 Now, with CBT, as well as those non-invasive neurostimulation therapies 0:13:02.870 --> 0:13:06.530 that we were just talking about, are they used in 0:13:06.530 --> 0:13:12.619 conjunction with medication then, or are they used instead of medication? 0:13:12.860 --> 0:13:20.900 All the current treatment guidelines for schizophrenia clearly identify that 0:13:20.929 --> 0:13:27.830 the backbone treatment starts with medications, with antipsychotics. In addition, 0:13:27.830 --> 0:13:32.510 we can add CBT, we can add ECT as an 0:13:32.510 --> 0:13:38.059 approved treatment for schizophrenia, and there are other interventions that 0:13:38.059 --> 0:13:42.320 can be used, in addition. But the backbone, when someone 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:49.189 is suffering from schizophrenia and actively having positive symptoms, delusions 0:13:49.190 --> 0:13:54.949 and hallucinations: medications need to be in place. 0:13:55.670 --> 0:14:01.040 You're listening to LookAgain, Mental Illness Re-examined, a podcast brought to you by 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:06.470 the BC Schizophrenia Society and BC partner organizations. I'm your host, 0:14:06.470 --> 0:14:10.460 Faydra Aldridge . This podcast would not be possible without the 0:14:10.460 --> 0:14:14.450 support of the entire community. From the bottom of our hearts, 0:14:14.450 --> 0:14:18.530 we want to thank you for caring about mental illness together. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:23.390 We truly can make a difference. // So we're back with Dr. 0:14:23.390 --> 0:14:29.300 Fidel Vila-Rodriguez talking about mental illness, medications and treatment. 0:14:32.730 --> 0:14:38.100 My son had anosognosia, which means he did not know 0:14:38.100 --> 0:14:41.550 he was ill. He was very sick but did not 0:14:41.550 --> 0:14:44.190 know it, and "he doesn't need medicine." So "what are 0:14:44.190 --> 0:14:48.120 you talking about?" So he was that for sure, all 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.810 the way to his death. And so he had to 0:14:51.810 --> 0:14:53.400 be on forced injections. 0:14:55.110 --> 0:14:57.660 Well, firstly, they don't make him feel very well. And 0:14:57.660 --> 0:15:00.660 so the drugs themselves are hard on them. He doesn't 0:15:00.660 --> 0:15:03.500 sleep well when he's on the drugs. You know, he-he 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.670 doesn't feel well. They can create different health issues, weight gain. 0:15:08.670 --> 0:15:13.320 And that's part of it. Part of it is an 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.790 acceptance and belief that you have to take them to 0:15:17.790 --> 0:15:18.160 be healthy too... 0:15:18.750 --> 0:15:21.239 ... other side effects, of course, is, you know, when he 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.710 gets his shot that it makes him very slowed down. 0:15:25.290 --> 0:15:26.880 He doesn't like to be slowed down. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.010 ...a lot of problems with him staying on it. He kept going 0:15:32.010 --> 0:15:34.440 off and back on and off and back on. 0:15:35.070 --> 0:15:39.510 So for him, that's his big negative, is that he 0:15:39.510 --> 0:15:44.970 thinks that he can function well enough, independently, enough without them, 0:15:44.970 --> 0:15:47.170 that he doesn't need them, that he would be OK. 0:15:47.670 --> 0:15:52.410 Slowly, the wheels started turning and they started actually noticing 0:15:52.510 --> 0:15:57.510 that he can survive. He can go to work full 0:15:57.510 --> 0:15:59.970 time when he's taking his medication. 0:16:00.270 --> 0:16:04.140 He doesn't, he hasn't come to the point where he says, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.640 "my life, my quality of life is not good when 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.230 I when I'm not being medicated." 0:16:10.500 --> 0:16:13.380 But he's much, much better. But I was all for it. 0:16:13.380 --> 0:16:14.250 I'm like, oh, Jesus, just please take your medication. I want my son back. 0:16:20.500 --> 0:16:23.680 That was pretty powerful. The last line, I just want 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.520 my son back, I'm sure you hear that a lot, Fidel, 0:16:28.150 --> 0:16:30.850 with your patients and the families that you work with. 0:16:31.030 --> 0:16:35.350 But we also heard families talk about their fear of 0:16:35.350 --> 0:16:41.950 the side effects and the potential resistance to take medications 0:16:41.950 --> 0:16:46.040 when they are told that they are necessary to their treatment. 0:16:46.810 --> 0:16:50.290 What do you say to families or to the individuals 0:16:50.290 --> 0:16:53.530 with schizophrenia and serious mental illness that you work with 0:16:54.190 --> 0:16:59.770 around the need to take medication despite the potential side effects? 0:17:00.070 --> 0:17:04.210 I think the clip that we just heard is a 0:17:04.210 --> 0:17:09.459 very powerful reminder of the testimony of of this suffering 0:17:09.609 --> 0:17:13.810 and the challenges that people who suffer with schizophrenia and 0:17:13.810 --> 0:17:20.139 their families go through. And sometimes the very difficult decisions 0:17:20.140 --> 0:17:24.940 that come on the table, like someone not recognizing they 0:17:24.940 --> 0:17:30.500 need help and professionals need to resort to involuntary treatment. 0:17:30.700 --> 0:17:35.980 Hearing these testimonies from families brought me back to the 0:17:35.980 --> 0:17:41.230 day-to-day work with families and the realization that there are 0:17:41.230 --> 0:17:45.220 times when the illness is so severe that gets in 0:17:45.220 --> 0:17:48.909 the way of the person being able to ask for help. 0:17:49.540 --> 0:17:55.660 And that's a situation where families, professionals, we don't want 0:17:55.660 --> 0:18:00.189 to be in that spot. But when we are, we 0:18:00.190 --> 0:18:06.189 recognize the suffering. Unfortunately, when those situations come to play 0:18:06.190 --> 0:18:10.990 out that way, involuntary treatment might be the last resort. 0:18:10.990 --> 0:18:14.290 But it's the only thing that we can do. That leads me to, 0:18:14.290 --> 0:18:18.190 to your question about side effects. Any treatment, no matter 0:18:18.190 --> 0:18:23.620 what medical condition, has the potential of coming with side effects. 0:18:24.010 --> 0:18:27.850 And the conversation, like in any other field in medicine, 0:18:28.450 --> 0:18:33.130 boils down to carefully gauge how much benefit and how 0:18:33.130 --> 0:18:36.580 much risk we are dealing with here. It's very important 0:18:36.580 --> 0:18:42.190 to carefully describe what are those side effects, what are the 0:18:42.190 --> 0:18:47.830 chances of experiencing them, and very importantly, what can we 0:18:47.830 --> 0:18:52.930 do to minimize the risk of those happening. That last 0:18:52.930 --> 0:18:56.800 point is a very important one, because it is true 0:18:57.130 --> 0:19:01.630 that any medication, any treatment has a potential for side effects. 0:19:01.900 --> 0:19:05.200 But it's also true that we can do things to 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:09.910 minimize to make that risk as low as possible. It 0:19:09.910 --> 0:19:12.670 doesn't go to zero, but we can do things to 0:19:12.670 --> 0:19:13.450 minimize it. 0:19:14.109 --> 0:19:17.680 So, Fidel, at the beginning we talked about when somebody 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.700 is "on" their meds or "off" their meds, is this 0:19:21.700 --> 0:19:25.150 something that you hear a lot? Do people go on 0:19:25.150 --> 0:19:26.689 and off their medications? 0:19:26.830 --> 0:19:32.170 People with schizophrenia, they sometimes forget a dose. Sometimes there 0:19:32.170 --> 0:19:36.540 are situations when there is a need to increase dose. 0:19:36.550 --> 0:19:40.330 That dose that we were giving stopped being enough and 0:19:40.330 --> 0:19:45.130 that can lead to symptoms coming back. If someone is 0:19:45.130 --> 0:19:49.840 not taking all the medication that they need, or they don't, 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.560 they don't have enough dose that can lead to symptoms 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.460 coming back. And the way this looks varies a lot 0:19:57.460 --> 0:20:01.900 from person to person. Families are really good at picking 0:20:01.900 --> 0:20:02.920 up the cues. 0:20:04.030 --> 0:20:08.230 So if a person is on medications, should they be 0:20:08.230 --> 0:20:11.200 worried about getting the covid vaccination? 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.909 We know -- and there's research that has recently come out 0:20:15.940 --> 0:20:21.670 about this -- that unfortunately, people who suffer from schizophrenia are 0:20:21.670 --> 0:20:27.580 at higher risk of having Covid and complications from Covid. So 0:20:27.580 --> 0:20:29.800 we know that. So the risk is even higher. So 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:35.080 the need for getting immunized is even more pressing. The 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.550 vaccine is safe in the general population, as it is 0:20:39.550 --> 0:20:45.070 for people with schizophrenia. The only situation that there's been 0:20:45.070 --> 0:20:48.699 a few case reports and that it's important to pay 0:20:48.700 --> 0:20:52.240 a little bit more attention, is for people who are 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:59.980 taking one particular antipsychotic called Clozapine. Clozapine is the most 0:20:59.980 --> 0:21:05.109 effective antipsychotic that we have for schizophrenia. But unfortunately, it 0:21:05.109 --> 0:21:09.670 comes with some side effects and sometimes has been can 0:21:09.670 --> 0:21:16.240 be associated with fever... high temperature. Vaccines in anyone can 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:21.310 cause a transient, very temporary reaction where we have a 0:21:21.310 --> 0:21:25.690 little bit of fever. And what this means is they 0:21:25.690 --> 0:21:29.200 want to make sure to convey, is very clearly, being 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:33.820 on Clozapine is not a contraindication for a vaccine. The 0:21:33.820 --> 0:21:37.810 vaccine is safe. The benefits of getting the vaccine for 0:21:37.810 --> 0:21:43.280 people with schizophrenia in general far outweigh the potential risk. 0:21:43.340 --> 0:21:45.920 So it is very important to get vaccinated. 0:21:46.540 --> 0:21:51.440 I cannot thank you enough for joining me today, Dr. Rodriguez. 0:21:51.460 --> 0:21:53.859 It has been absolutely fascinating. 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:55.330 Thank you so much, Faydra. 0:21:55.930 --> 0:21:58.870 So just a reminder to everyone who is listening. Thank 0:21:58.869 --> 0:22:01.210 you for being a part of our show today. We will, 0:22:01.210 --> 0:22:03.910 of course, be posting all of the relevant links for 0:22:03.910 --> 0:22:07.600 this conversation in our show notes and of course, on 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:13.840 our website www.BCSS.org . I hope you learned as much 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.390 as I did. And coming up on the next episode, 0:22:16.630 --> 0:22:20.050 we're going to be looking at concurrent disorders and perceptions 0:22:20.050 --> 0:22:23.770 around how common serious mental illness is. And trust me. 0:22:24.010 --> 0:22:27.990 Spoiler alert here. It's way more common than what you think. 0:22:28.690 --> 0:22:29.439 Bye for now. 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.120 This podcast is brought to you by the BC Schizophrenia 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.119 Society and the B.C. Partners for Mental Health and Substance 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.540 Use Information, where a group of non-profit agencies providing good 0:22:41.540 --> 0:22:45.230 quality information to help individuals and families maintain or improve 0:22:45.230 --> 0:22:49.190 their mental well-being. The B.C. Partners Members are Anxiety Canada, 0:22:49.250 --> 0:22:53.930 BC Schizophrenia Society, Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. Canadian 0:22:53.930 --> 0:22:58.310 Mental Health Associations, B.C. Division, Family Smart, Jessie's Legacy, a 0:22:58.310 --> 0:23:02.570 North Shore Family Services Program, and Mood Disorders Association of B.C., 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.510 a branch of Lookout Housing and Health Society. The B.C. 0:23:05.510 --> 0:23:08.570 Partners are funded and stewarded by B.C. Mental Health and 0:23:08.570 --> 0:23:12.330 Substance Use Services, an agency of the Provincial Health Services Authority. 0:23:12.470 --> 0:23:14.060 For more information, visit heretohelp.bc.ca