1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me for today's episode of God, 2 00:00:03,759 --> 00:00:09,629 Speaker 1: Law and Liberty, and as always, I'm your host, David Fowler. Um, today, 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: we want to try to make some biblical sense of 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: the nonsense or mess that we see taking place in Minneapolis. 5 00:00:17,510 --> 00:00:21,709 Speaker 1: And I believe a right understanding of the situation will 6 00:00:21,709 --> 00:00:25,169 Speaker 1: lead to the strategy that I think is most needed 7 00:00:25,229 --> 00:00:27,930 Speaker 1: and that I'll offer at the end of the podcast. 8 00:00:28,430 --> 00:00:30,829 Speaker 1: Now last week I said that when it comes to 9 00:00:30,829 --> 00:00:35,830 Speaker 1: law and what it can accomplish in society, I believed 10 00:00:35,830 --> 00:00:39,790 Speaker 1: we needed to think about what the nature of sin 11 00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:44,790 Speaker 1: is and its effects on our original nature as created 12 00:00:44,790 --> 00:00:45,349 Speaker 1: in Adam. 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,918 Speaker 1: Specifically whether sin has a metaphysic. Now to avoid exasperation 14 00:00:51,918 --> 00:00:55,380 Speaker 1: by use of the word metaphysic, let's put this issue 15 00:00:55,639 --> 00:01:01,479 Speaker 1: this way. Is the conduct we are witnessing just conduct, 16 00:01:01,959 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 1: or does that conduct reveal something real beyond what we're observing, 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: beyond the physical, a metaphysical reality, more specifically. 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,370 Speaker 1: We should ask why a large number of people in 19 00:01:16,370 --> 00:01:19,988 Speaker 1: Minneapolis are choosing to do things that to many of 20 00:01:19,989 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: us just don't make sense. 21 00:01:23,779 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: Is something being revealed and if so. 22 00:01:27,430 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: The question for Christians is, well, what is it? 23 00:01:31,529 --> 00:01:36,010 Speaker 1: Now, I think this why question is very practical. I 24 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:38,050 Speaker 1: believe it should be at the forefront of our thinking 25 00:01:38,050 --> 00:01:41,690 Speaker 1: about the violence and rhetoric coming out of Minneapolis. I 26 00:01:41,690 --> 00:01:44,169 Speaker 1: think it will help us know what to do, which 27 00:01:44,169 --> 00:01:46,029 Speaker 1: I'll offer at the end of today's podcast. 28 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:50,709 Speaker 1: But does the Bible speak to this why question? 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,940 Speaker 1: And to be honest, I don't think it's as simple 30 00:01:54,239 --> 00:01:56,639 Speaker 1: as people are sinners and they're sinning. 31 00:01:57,339 --> 00:01:58,290 Speaker 1: Though that is true. 32 00:01:59,669 --> 00:02:03,190 Speaker 1: Biblically speaking, I think something is being revealed, and I 33 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:07,019 Speaker 1: believe it pertains to what is original sin. 34 00:02:07,839 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: That term summarizes both how we think Adam was created, 35 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: what the image of God means, and that will lead 36 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: us to a better understanding of the effect we think 37 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,889 Speaker 1: his sin had on the rest of us. 38 00:02:24,179 --> 00:02:28,179 Speaker 1: I call the question of original sin a controversy to 39 00:02:28,179 --> 00:02:32,538 Speaker 1: be avoided because of a certain tendency I see among 40 00:02:32,538 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: Christians engaged in legal and public policy advocacy. 41 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,478 Speaker 1: So many of those I know want to get a 42 00:02:39,479 --> 00:02:43,649 Speaker 1: win and not continue losing, as a former colleague of 43 00:02:43,649 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: mine said. 44 00:02:45,288 --> 00:02:48,699 Speaker 1: I think there may be a belief that doctrinal issues 45 00:02:48,699 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: like this one don't matter at the political legal level, 46 00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:55,820 Speaker 1: and they can get in the way of forming coalitions 47 00:02:55,820 --> 00:02:58,259 Speaker 1: that could muster the power needed for a legal or 48 00:02:58,258 --> 00:02:59,020 Speaker 1: political win. 49 00:02:59,758 --> 00:03:00,850 Speaker 1: But I disagree. 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,250 Speaker 1: On the importance of this question about original sin, Dutch 51 00:03:06,250 --> 00:03:14,279 Speaker 1: theologian Hermann Bain, writing in 18595, quotes Pascal's work in 1670, 52 00:03:14,490 --> 00:03:19,889 Speaker 1: Peny's and Other Writings, quote, Without this most incomprehensible of 53 00:03:19,889 --> 00:03:20,869 Speaker 1: all mysteries. 54 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:24,089 Speaker 1: We are incomprehensible to ourselves. 55 00:03:25,070 --> 00:03:29,429 Speaker 1: Bavik also quotes Joseph Marie Comte de Mestre, I guess 56 00:03:29,429 --> 00:03:33,929 Speaker 1: is how you pronounce it, who lived between 1753 and 1821, 57 00:03:34,270 --> 00:03:39,970 Speaker 1: as saying, quote, Original sin explains everything, and without it 58 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:42,869 Speaker 1: one cannot explain anything. 59 00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:47,589 Speaker 1: Now, this podcast is not the place to trace the 60 00:03:47,589 --> 00:03:49,949 Speaker 1: history of Christian thought about original sin. 61 00:03:51,259 --> 00:03:56,979 Speaker 1: But Romans 6:14-19 helped me think through the effect Adam's 62 00:03:56,979 --> 00:04:01,550 Speaker 1: transgression had on all human beings. Verse 14 is the 63 00:04:01,550 --> 00:04:03,770 Speaker 1: first verse I'll read, and it's particularly important. 64 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,369 Speaker 1: But here is the passage. 65 00:04:07,220 --> 00:04:10,500 Speaker 1: For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you 66 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: are not under the law but under grace. 67 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:16,940 Speaker 1: What then shall we sin because we're not under the 68 00:04:16,940 --> 00:04:19,019 Speaker 1: law but under grace? God forbid. 69 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:23,750 Speaker 1: Know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants 70 00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:27,950 Speaker 1: to obey, His servants you are to whom you obey. 71 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,958 Speaker 1: Whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness 72 00:04:33,988 --> 00:04:38,079 Speaker 1: But God be thanked that ye were the servants of sin. 73 00:04:38,829 --> 00:04:41,399 Speaker 1: But ye have obeyed from the heart that form of 74 00:04:41,399 --> 00:04:45,678 Speaker 1: doctrine which was delivered to you. Being then made free 75 00:04:45,678 --> 00:04:49,178 Speaker 1: from sin, you became the servants of righteousness. 76 00:04:50,339 --> 00:04:53,579 Speaker 1: I speak after the manner of men because of the 77 00:04:53,579 --> 00:04:55,109 Speaker 1: infirmity of your flesh. 78 00:04:56,130 --> 00:04:59,529 Speaker 1: For as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness 79 00:04:59,529 --> 00:05:05,140 Speaker 1: and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so, now yield your members, 80 00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:08,450 Speaker 1: servants to righteousness and to holiness. 81 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, uh, verse 14 was instrumental for changing 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: how I came to understand verses 15 through 19. 83 00:05:18,630 --> 00:05:22,709 Speaker 1: Verse 14 to repeat says, quote, Forsin shall not have 84 00:05:22,709 --> 00:05:25,510 Speaker 1: dominion over you, for you are not under the law 85 00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:26,350 Speaker 1: but under grace. 86 00:05:27,209 --> 00:05:27,769 Speaker 1: End quote. 87 00:05:28,519 --> 00:05:32,500 Speaker 1: I read that as a command in keeping with verses 88 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:37,269 Speaker 1: 12 and 13 which read, Let not sin therefore reign 89 00:05:37,269 --> 00:05:40,429 Speaker 1: in your mortal body that you should obey it in 90 00:05:40,428 --> 00:05:41,549 Speaker 1: the lust thereof. 91 00:05:42,420 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, 92 00:05:48,339 --> 00:05:52,339 Speaker 1: but yield yourselves unto God as those who are alive 93 00:05:52,339 --> 00:05:57,260 Speaker 1: from the dead and your members as instruments of righteousness 94 00:05:57,420 --> 00:05:58,019 Speaker 1: unto God. 95 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: Now the verbs in those verses are in the imperative 96 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: mood a command. 97 00:06:05,769 --> 00:06:10,179 Speaker 1: But the verb in verse 14 is not. It's in 98 00:06:10,178 --> 00:06:14,130 Speaker 1: the indicative mood. It's not telling us something to do. 99 00:06:14,660 --> 00:06:19,979 Speaker 1: Don't let sin reign in your mortal body, but it's 100 00:06:19,980 --> 00:06:23,730 Speaker 1: telling those who are regenerate by work of the Holy Spirit, 101 00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:29,700 Speaker 1: those who are truly but not physically in Christ, a 102 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: fact about their situation with respect to sin. 103 00:06:34,380 --> 00:06:38,100 Speaker 1: In other words, verse 14 became to me the encouragement 104 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:42,260 Speaker 1: I needed to not despair in pursuing the imperatives in 105 00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:43,660 Speaker 1: verse 13 and 14. 106 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,109 Speaker 1: In Christ I was free of some kind of dominion 107 00:06:49,510 --> 00:06:53,750 Speaker 1: by which I could freely choose righteousness and know that 108 00:06:53,750 --> 00:06:56,390 Speaker 1: progress in sanctification was possible. 109 00:06:57,559 --> 00:07:00,109 Speaker 1: But what was this kind of dominion 110 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: Well, in view of verse 14, I began to ask 111 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,839 Speaker 1: whether the words dominion, slave, and servant in connection with 112 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:15,799 Speaker 1: sin were just metaphors describing a constant battle against particular 113 00:07:15,799 --> 00:07:20,279 Speaker 1: sins which Battle Paul describes in Chapter 7. In other words, 114 00:07:20,359 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: that it's just describing sin trying to enslave us. 115 00:07:25,190 --> 00:07:26,899 Speaker 1: Or is it a true metaphor 116 00:07:27,750 --> 00:07:32,950 Speaker 1: Are the unregenerate under some kind of real though not 117 00:07:32,950 --> 00:07:40,350 Speaker 1: physically visible apparent dominion that has made them slaves to unrighteousness. 118 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,529 Speaker 1: But if the metaphor is true. 119 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:47,220 Speaker 1: Does that mean we can no longer make free decisions 120 00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: for which we are accountable to God? I don't think so, 121 00:07:51,070 --> 00:07:55,459 Speaker 1: because the Holy Spirit led me back to a consideration 122 00:07:55,459 --> 00:07:56,809 Speaker 1: of the image of God. 123 00:07:58,019 --> 00:07:58,779 Speaker 1: For example. 124 00:07:59,709 --> 00:08:02,309 Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit through Scripture and the writings of others 125 00:08:02,309 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: led me to see that God was the created integration 126 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: point for Adam's heart, soul, mind, and strength. 127 00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: And all those worked according to and in harmony with 128 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,980 Speaker 1: the law of his nature written on his heart. 129 00:08:18,339 --> 00:08:21,549 Speaker 1: But when Adam turned away from God, he turned away 130 00:08:21,549 --> 00:08:23,910 Speaker 1: from his point of integrated harmony. 131 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,619 Speaker 1: In this I came to see that the consequences of 132 00:08:28,619 --> 00:08:31,309 Speaker 1: his sin was such that he could no longer love 133 00:08:31,309 --> 00:08:34,049 Speaker 1: God with all of his heart, mind, soul, and strength 134 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,380 Speaker 1: according to the original perfect law of love that was 135 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: part of his original nature and written on his heart. 136 00:08:40,729 --> 00:08:45,449 Speaker 1: With his integration point changed away from life in God, 137 00:08:45,849 --> 00:08:50,630 Speaker 1: he was now permanently bent in on himself, bent toward 138 00:08:50,739 --> 00:08:54,329 Speaker 1: putting himself first when he exercised his will. 139 00:08:54,940 --> 00:08:56,500 Speaker 1: And why did I think this permanent? 140 00:08:57,890 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: Because Romans 5:12 tells us that death is the consequence 141 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,090 Speaker 1: of sin, and by Adam's sin, quote, death passed on 142 00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:10,689 Speaker 1: to all men, end quote, no exceptions. 143 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:14,909 Speaker 1: So in sum I concluded, as Herman Bobbit put it, 144 00:09:14,989 --> 00:09:19,669 Speaker 1: that sin is quote an active and corrupting principle, a 145 00:09:19,669 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: dissolving destructive power. 146 00:09:22,690 --> 00:09:25,330 Speaker 1: A certain real and positive something. 147 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:27,189 Speaker 1: As a real something 148 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:34,118 Speaker 1: Reformed Dogmatics Volume 3, page 137, quoting and citing various authors. 149 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:40,859 Speaker 1: This dominion in corresponding slavery didn't mean an unregenerate person 150 00:09:40,859 --> 00:09:42,260 Speaker 1: could never choose a civic good. 151 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,869 Speaker 1: But would he, when push came to shove, now freely 152 00:09:46,869 --> 00:09:50,030 Speaker 1: choose to think of himself above and before God? I 153 00:09:50,030 --> 00:09:50,630 Speaker 1: think so. 154 00:09:51,369 --> 00:09:54,539 Speaker 1: He hid from the true righteousness of God when God 155 00:09:54,539 --> 00:09:57,289 Speaker 1: came calling, and when that plan didn't work, he blamed 156 00:09:57,289 --> 00:09:59,489 Speaker 1: Eve for his sin instead of repenting. 157 00:10:01,549 --> 00:10:06,659 Speaker 1: Our choices, the exercises of our will, will freely conform 158 00:10:06,659 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: to our nature. 159 00:10:08,599 --> 00:10:11,650 Speaker 1: Even if it now sometimes seems that our circumstances may 160 00:10:11,650 --> 00:10:12,909 Speaker 1: leave us no choices. 161 00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: They may all be bad in some way. 162 00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: But the choices the unregenerate make and for which they 163 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,919 Speaker 1: are accountable no longer naturally flow from a love of 164 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:27,619 Speaker 1: God filling the whole of their heart, mind, soul according 165 00:10:27,619 --> 00:10:29,700 Speaker 1: to the law of the nature Adam was created with. 166 00:10:30,650 --> 00:10:35,169 Speaker 1: Now the unregenerate freely make choices that conform to a 167 00:10:35,169 --> 00:10:38,369 Speaker 1: new sin altered and sin infected nature. 168 00:10:39,219 --> 00:10:42,900 Speaker 1: They are accountable for those choices. Sin did not abolish 169 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:46,039 Speaker 1: God's lawful claim to their obedience. 170 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:49,070 Speaker 1: So how do I understand this dominion? 171 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,239 Speaker 1: The foregoing doesn't mean the unregenerate must run over the 172 00:10:54,239 --> 00:10:56,460 Speaker 1: little old lady crossing the street as if it were 173 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,119 Speaker 1: some blind Calvinistic compulsion. 174 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,169 Speaker 1: They can choose to wait for her. 175 00:11:03,090 --> 00:11:05,799 Speaker 1: But as a result of this change in nature, this 176 00:11:06,090 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: acting deprivation called sin that will lead to death. 177 00:11:11,049 --> 00:11:15,770 Speaker 1: Sin has a dominion over the unregenerate that Satan will 178 00:11:15,770 --> 00:11:20,909 Speaker 1: provoke when it serves to bring about his purposes confusion, 179 00:11:21,169 --> 00:11:22,210 Speaker 1: vain thinking. 180 00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:23,409 Speaker 1: And death 181 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:27,549 Speaker 1: In fact, Paul tells us that the sin in the 182 00:11:27,549 --> 00:11:32,830 Speaker 1: unregenerate when confronted with God's righteous law provokes in us 183 00:11:32,830 --> 00:11:35,950 Speaker 1: sinful attitudes and actions. Romans 7:8. 184 00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: That is part of sin's metaphysic. 185 00:11:39,859 --> 00:11:44,228 Speaker 1: And the unregenerate can be so dead to sin that 186 00:11:44,229 --> 00:11:47,210 Speaker 1: they feel alive. Romans 6:9. 187 00:11:48,580 --> 00:11:51,820 Speaker 1: That kind of dominion can only be broken by the 188 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:56,140 Speaker 1: greater dominion given God's Son and mediated to us in 189 00:11:56,140 --> 00:12:00,489 Speaker 1: Christ and made effective by the Holy Spirit. 190 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:05,130 Speaker 1: So what then do we make of the slave metaphor 191 00:12:05,130 --> 00:12:06,630 Speaker 1: in one of those verses? 192 00:12:08,010 --> 00:12:10,549 Speaker 1: Well, I now read them as a true metaphor. 193 00:12:11,309 --> 00:12:13,989 Speaker 1: I think it's the kind of metaphor Paul needed for 194 00:12:13,989 --> 00:12:19,239 Speaker 1: a manner of men verse 19 who were not spiritually 195 00:12:19,239 --> 00:12:25,369 Speaker 1: mature enough to appreciate a metaphysical reality about the condition, 196 00:12:25,669 --> 00:12:29,579 Speaker 1: the state, or the dominion that the unregenerate are in. 197 00:12:30,299 --> 00:12:33,859 Speaker 1: And that they, the regenerate in whom that dominion has 198 00:12:33,859 --> 00:12:34,478 Speaker 1: been broken. 199 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:36,750 Speaker 1: Don't yet fully understand. 200 00:12:37,659 --> 00:12:41,419 Speaker 1: A metaphor is needed because sin is metaphysical. We can 201 00:12:41,419 --> 00:12:44,500 Speaker 1: only see its effects, not its true nature. 202 00:12:45,849 --> 00:12:50,460 Speaker 1: Thus, upon my reading of Romans 6:14-19, being born again 203 00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: and being a new creation aren't just metaphors indicating a 204 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,780 Speaker 1: reformation in moral resolve and better behavior, but true metaphors, 205 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:05,659 Speaker 1: meaning a real metaphysical change in a person, has taken 206 00:13:05,659 --> 00:13:10,739 Speaker 1: place from which moral reformation now comes as a fruit 207 00:13:10,739 --> 00:13:11,619 Speaker 1: of the spirit. 208 00:13:13,179 --> 00:13:15,729 Speaker 1: So what are we witnessing in Minneapolis? 209 00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:20,479 Speaker 1: I think Satan is exerting the dominion he has by 210 00:13:20,479 --> 00:13:25,479 Speaker 1: virtue of sin over the unregenerate in Minneapolis and is 211 00:13:25,479 --> 00:13:30,358 Speaker 1: stirring up its still remaining presence in some of the regenerate. 212 00:13:31,570 --> 00:13:34,369 Speaker 1: If that is what we are up against, and I 213 00:13:34,369 --> 00:13:37,650 Speaker 1: believe it is, more laws from Congress or the state 214 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,369 Speaker 1: won't break that kind of dominion. 215 00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:43,179 Speaker 1: More law enforcement won't break it either, though it may 216 00:13:43,179 --> 00:13:45,409 Speaker 1: restrain particular acts of sin. 217 00:13:46,309 --> 00:13:49,549 Speaker 1: Until Satan finds a more opportune time. 218 00:13:50,619 --> 00:13:54,659 Speaker 1: See Luke 4:13 where after tempting Christ Satan waited for 219 00:13:54,659 --> 00:13:57,500 Speaker 1: an opportune time to tempt him again. 220 00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:00,479 Speaker 1: So what's my battle plan for the situation? 221 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: With Paul the unregenerate looking at what's going on should 222 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,130 Speaker 1: be saying, O wretched man that I am, who shall 223 00:14:09,130 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: deliver me from the body of this death? Romans 7:24. 224 00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:18,340 Speaker 1: But they won't until there is a work of the 225 00:14:18,340 --> 00:14:19,140 Speaker 1: spirit of God. 226 00:14:20,099 --> 00:14:23,559 Speaker 1: That the spirit would work to bring about such cries 227 00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:28,179 Speaker 1: is my prayer right now. I think that is the 228 00:14:28,179 --> 00:14:30,419 Speaker 1: most needed strategy.