Fenella Kernebone: A quick heads-up, in this series we talk about drug use,
Fenella Kernebone: mental health issues, and there's a bit of swearing.
Fenella Kernebone: This is 'Art, life and the other thing', a podcast
Fenella Kernebone: about Brett Whiteley, the themes surrounding his work and the
Fenella Kernebone: impression he continues to have on the contemporary art world.
Fenella Kernebone: I'm Fenella Kernebone, and I'd like to acknowledge the traditional
Fenella Kernebone: custodians of the land on which this podcast was made,
Fenella Kernebone: the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation.
Fenella Kernebone: In each episode, we will dive into one of Brett
Fenella Kernebone: Whiteley's artworks, from a painting as iconic as 'The balcony 2' of
Fenella Kernebone: Sydney Harbour, to his unfinished painting 'Interior, Lavender Bay'.
Fenella Kernebone: We'll look at the impact Brett Whiteley has had on
Fenella Kernebone: the art world over the past 60 years and talk
Fenella Kernebone: to contemporary artists about his work and about how his
Fenella Kernebone: work and style may have influenced their own career.
Fenella Kernebone: Coming up in the series, we'll talk about the self-portrait
Fenella Kernebone: and why artists are so drawn to this genre.
Anne Ryan: For Brett Whiteley, a lot of his work really was
Anne Ryan: about trying to work out where he fitted in, and
Anne Ryan: I think self-portraiture is an expression of that curiosity in
Anne Ryan: his own mind.
Fenella Kernebone: ...iconic artworks and what gives a painting that status?
Nicole Kelly: Good painting floods me with emotion that's hard to pinpoint, really. Like,
Nicole Kelly: it's somewhere between love and pain, really. I can't describe why.
Fenella Kernebone: ...pieces from the past and how they stack up when
Fenella Kernebone: we view them through a contemporary lens.
Deborah Kelly: So the female nude is allowable in a certain way,
Deborah Kelly: but never actually shown with all her human anatomy.
Deborah Kelly: That's funny, isn't it? It's a censored view, even though
Deborah Kelly: it's also ubiquitous.
Fenella Kernebone: ...and the mental state of the artist and how that
Fenella Kernebone: impacts on their creativity.
Wendy Whiteley: But he could go into a space where he just
Wendy Whiteley: switched off; he was so friendly a minute ago and
Wendy Whiteley: then suddenly bang, you know. Life was always intense for him.
Wendy Whiteley: He loathed the feeling of failure in himself.
Fenella Kernebone: But first, in this episode, we're going to look at
Fenella Kernebone: an unfinished painting that was found in storage in the
Fenella Kernebone: Brett Whiteley Studio after his death.
Fenella Kernebone: Preserving an artist's studio gives an incomplete piece like this
Fenella Kernebone: one somewhere to be displayed, and it feels right to
Fenella Kernebone: see it hanging, to give visitors a sense of the
Fenella Kernebone: artist and his way of working.
Fenella Kernebone: But why do we preserve these types of spaces?
Fenella Kernebone: And what does it reveal about the artist themselves?
Fenella Kernebone: So I'm heading to the Studio now, walking along a
Fenella Kernebone: narrow street in Surry Hills. It's a suburb in Sydney's
Fenella Kernebone: inner city. On one side of the road, just over there,
Fenella Kernebone: all these terraced houses sit closely together, and then on
Fenella Kernebone: the other side there's a long wall. There's no windows,
Fenella Kernebone: just one big wooden door. So here we are. This
Fenella Kernebone: is it. The door to Brett Whiteley's studio, the place
Fenella Kernebone: where one of the country's most celebrated artists lived and
Fenella Kernebone: worked for seven years until his death in 1992. Behind
Fenella Kernebone: these walls are some of his most famous pieces of art.
Fenella Kernebone: To be honest, some of Australia's most famous pieces of
Fenella Kernebone: art.
Unknown speaker: Welcome to the Brett Whiteley Studio. Have you been here before at all?
Fenella Kernebone: So who was Brett Whiteley? Many think of him as
Fenella Kernebone: Australia's original celebrity artist, celebrated both for his talent and
Fenella Kernebone: his wild lifestyle. But to understand Whiteley and his fame,
Fenella Kernebone: we need to know where he came from. Brett's artistic
Fenella Kernebone: journey began as soon as he was old enough to
Fenella Kernebone: hold a pencil, and that artistic instinct led to his
Fenella Kernebone: first big break as the winner of a scholarship to
Fenella Kernebone: travel overseas to immerse himself in the dynamic European art scene.
Fenella Kernebone: It didn't take long for Brett to break through, and
Fenella Kernebone: in 1961 at the age of just 22 he became
Fenella Kernebone: the youngest painter ever to have his work acquired by
Fenella Kernebone: the most prestigious gallery in the United Kingdom, the Tate Gallery.
Fenella Kernebone: For the next decade, Brett travelled from London to New York,
Fenella Kernebone: rising in stature and recognition within the art world before
Fenella Kernebone: finally returning home in 1969. And it was here in
Fenella Kernebone: Sydney that he cemented his reputation as one of the
Fenella Kernebone: great modern artists.
Fenella Kernebone: He won the Archibald portrait prize – Australia's prestigious portrait award –
Fenella Kernebone: in 1976 and then in 1978 he went on to
Fenella Kernebone: win not only the Archibald for a second time, but
Fenella Kernebone: he also claimed the hat-trick: he won the Sulman and
Fenella Kernebone: the Wynne Prizes, too. When we think of Brett Whiteley today,
Fenella Kernebone: 'troubled genius' comes to mind, but he was more than that.
Fenella Kernebone: He was also extremely hard-working and dedicated to making art.
Fenella Kernebone: You really get a sense of this. When you step
Fenella Kernebone: inside his studio, it almost feels like you're entering the
Fenella Kernebone: inner workings of his mind. Barry Pearce, the former curator
Fenella Kernebone: of Australian art at the Art Gallery of New South Wales,
Fenella Kernebone: recalls the space as often being pretty chaotic.
Barry Pearce: ... and he had paintings everywhere and paints very untidy. You know,
Barry Pearce: it wasn't organised like it became later.
Fenella Kernebone: And here's Wendy Whiteley, Brett's former wife and the subject
Fenella Kernebone: of many of his paintings talking about the area in
Fenella Kernebone: 1995 when the studio first opened to the public.
Wendy Whiteley: Surry Hills itself has changed a lot. When the studio
Wendy Whiteley: first opened, which was during the same time that the
Wendy Whiteley: Brett's retrospective at the Art Gallery of New South Wales and
Wendy Whiteley: the Studio as a cohesive entity was happening, the premier
Wendy Whiteley: at the time entered Raper Street with a kind of
Wendy Whiteley: terrified look on his face, surrounded by guards, because I
Wendy Whiteley: think they thought Surry Hills was so dangerous and so
Wendy Whiteley: down at heel at the time. Then he walked in
Wendy Whiteley: through those doors and you could see he was transformed
Wendy Whiteley: by the experience.
Fenella Kernebone: When he moved in, Brett renovated the space, transforming the
Fenella Kernebone: downstairs into an art gallery. Here's Barry Pearce again, reflecting on
Fenella Kernebone: what Brett saw in the space.
Barry Pearce: He was imagining how he was going to use the space.
Barry Pearce: This was going to be the kitchen. He was going
Barry Pearce: to have a bedroom out the back there. The studio
Barry Pearce: was there looking out over the balcony. nd the main
Barry Pearce: thing he said that the reason he liked the space because
Barry Pearce: he could imagine he could have everything. He could have
Barry Pearce: a working environment where he could have peace and quiet
Barry Pearce: if wanted to, o r he could have mad parties if
Barry Pearce: he wanted to do, with plenty of people. Or he
Barry Pearce: could use the bottom as a sort of a mini gallery,
Barry Pearce: like a museum, for his own work.
Fenella Kernebone: Brett used the downstairs area as a rehearsal space for
Fenella Kernebone: his artworks.
Barry Pearce: I think he just wanted his own private view of
Barry Pearce: how the paintings were going to work together in preparation
Barry Pearce: for an exhibition. But it would give him a chance
Barry Pearce: to shuffle the pictures around and hang them on the
Barry Pearce: wall with nice lighting, prepping himself, like rehearsing, very theatrical.
Barry Pearce: If you think about it, this was his rehearsal space,
Barry Pearce: or downstairs I'm talking about, not up here so much,
Barry Pearce: as living up here.
Fenella Kernebone: Upstairs is more cosy. That's where the bedroom and the
Fenella Kernebone: kitchen are. There's also a space with a black leather
Fenella Kernebone: couch and postcards and photographs on the wall. This is
Fenella Kernebone: where Brett lived, where he rested and, yes, sometimes partied.
Fenella Kernebone: It's where he felt most at home. Here's Wendy again.
Wendy Whiteley: The living room well, the living room hasn't changed that much. It
Wendy Whiteley: is almost the same photographs up on the back of
Wendy Whiteley: the door and above the desk, and the little collection
Wendy Whiteley: of CDs and things. The music, that hasn't changed that much.
Wendy Whiteley: The floor. When Brett was first there he had this,
Wendy Whiteley: it was pretty horrible actually, kind of pale apricot-coloured carpet all
Wendy Whiteley: over it, just completely worn by people walking up and
Wendy Whiteley: down on it when we opened the thing, and so
Wendy Whiteley: eventually we took it up and discovered it had a
Wendy Whiteley: very beautiful old floor from ... the back part of the
Wendy Whiteley: studio is actually a very old building, the brick part.
Wendy Whiteley: I think it must have been a kind of hayloft
Wendy Whiteley: up there.
Wendy Whiteley: Up there is his studio. There's tins of paint, glass jars,
Wendy Whiteley: holding brushes and easels set up and ready to go.
Wendy Whiteley: Carefully scattered around are Brett's things that have been collected over
Wendy Whiteley: the years, including birds eggs, magazines, postcards.
Anne Ryan: We're here on a mezzanine level, where the room is
Anne Ryan: almost as if he would have used it himself. So
Anne Ryan: there are artists' materials on the floor. The floor is
Anne Ryan: lined with wood, which is covered with spatters and paint marks.
Anne Ryan: There's a rolled up carpet in the corner. A lot
Anne Ryan: of artists studios that I visited have these daggy old carpets,
Anne Ryan: and they're there to keep you warm. So it's a,
Anne Ryan: it's an environment that feels very much as if the
Anne Ryan: artist had left it not so long ago.
Fenella Kernebone: This is Anne Ryan, curator of Australian art at the
Fenella Kernebone: Art Gallery of New South Wales.
Anne Ryan: Of course, it's not as he would have left it.
Anne Ryan: It's dusted. It's tidy, even though the materials are all
Anne Ryan: over the floor, his books are on a bookcase by
Anne Ryan: the wall. There are inscriptions that he wrote on the wall,
Anne Ryan: and postcards and images of artworks and other objects that
Anne Ryan: he collected around himself as stimuli. It's a curated vision of
Anne Ryan: what an artist studio is like, and some artist studios
Anne Ryan: are super organised and neat and tidy, and others are
Anne Ryan: complete chaos. And this one feels sort of slightly in between, really.
Fenella Kernebone: After Brett and Wendy separated, he moved into the studio
Fenella Kernebone: full time and lived here until he died in 1992
Fenella Kernebone: at the age of 53. It was Wendy and Arkie,
Fenella Kernebone: their daughter, who came up with the idea to turn
Fenella Kernebone: Brett's studio into a living museum. They wanted to both
Fenella Kernebone: preserve his legacy and find a way to continue to
Fenella Kernebone: showcase his work. The studio was purchased by the state
Fenella Kernebone: government and later managed by the Art Gallery of New
Fenella Kernebone: South Wales. Here, Brett's work is exhibited, along with an
Fenella Kernebone: annual exhibition of young artists nominated as finalists for the
Fenella Kernebone: Brett Whiteley Travelling Art Scholarship. Here's Wendy
Wendy Whiteley: The downstairs show and the kind of exhibition space - which is
Wendy Whiteley: all the whole thing, the whole thing is a unit, as
Wendy Whiteley: far as I see it, one thing relates to the other – the
Wendy Whiteley: thing is that it was a kind of almost ready
Wendy Whiteley: made when Brett died for the government to actually take
Wendy Whiteley: it on as an idea. It was because it was
Wendy Whiteley: kind of there had existed almost as it is. I mean,
Wendy Whiteley: we changed the exhibitions, and we've had to organise things
Wendy Whiteley: for the public to be able to use the space.
Wendy Whiteley: But it's very much like it was when Brett was there,
Wendy Whiteley: because he actually made those inner shells from an old
Wendy Whiteley: T shirt factory and turned it into a very beautiful white space.
Wendy Whiteley: And it's got its store rooms. It's got toilets for
Wendy Whiteley: the public et cetera, et cetera, but it feels intimate and
Wendy Whiteley: enclosed for people, so it's very distinct from going into
Wendy Whiteley: a big museum. Even if you're going to see one
Wendy Whiteley: artist's work, you walk into the home as well as
Wendy Whiteley: the artist's working space. And I think that's what makes
Wendy Whiteley: a big difference and why people really love it as a space
Wendy Whiteley: and really like to see a run of an artist's
Wendy Whiteley: work that much.
Fenella Kernebone: Recently, the Studio celebrated an important anniversary. It's been 25
Fenella Kernebone: years since the Studio's solid timber door open to the public, and,
Fenella Kernebone: as Wendy says, the Studio itself hasn't changed much.
Wendy Whiteley: The paints and the actual working materials are pretty well
Wendy Whiteley: as they were but it's 25, 30 years ago. When it gets
Wendy Whiteley: to be that stage occasionally they have to be dusted,
Wendy Whiteley: the books and things were more or less like Brett
Wendy Whiteley: had them. The stuff on the walls is the same.
Wendy Whiteley: What does change from time to time are the works
Wendy Whiteley: that are actually hung on the wall so that they
Wendy Whiteley: actually become part of the exhibition. I don't think there's... I've
Wendy Whiteley: never thought that there's that much benefit to just leave
Wendy Whiteley: a stack of old boards stacked up against the wall
Wendy Whiteley: taking up space. It's just an opportunity to show a
Wendy Whiteley: few more works to people at the time, but it retains. Hopefully,
Wendy Whiteley: the sense of that's where Brett was working, using the same tools.
Wendy Whiteley: The chair never changes. Can't let anyone sit in anymore .
Wendy Whiteley: It's become a kind of sacred icon. That chair would
Wendy Whiteley: probably fall apart if anyone sat in it anyway. But
Wendy Whiteley: this last exhibition, I think you can see it. There's
Wendy Whiteley: a chair from Lavender Bay that relates to a work
Wendy Whiteley: that was made in Lavender Bay, and so I brought
Wendy Whiteley: that into the Studio there, and things like that will
Wendy Whiteley: probably end up in the Studio when I'm dead anyway.
Wendy Whiteley: But the rest of the stuff is, yeah, fundamentally the same.
Wendy Whiteley: People who come in there for the first time are
Wendy Whiteley: amazed at it. They're really excited and amazed by it. It's not going to
Wendy Whiteley: win everybody over, but it certainly has its place, I
Wendy Whiteley: think, a very strong place.
Fenella Kernebone: Yes, there's an energy to this space. Whether you like
Fenella Kernebone: Brett's work or not, you do feel a certain pull
Fenella Kernebone: to it. Here, surrounded by his works in progress, his brushes,
Fenella Kernebone: his favourite books. Barry Pearce, curator, has a theory for
Fenella Kernebone: why this is so.
Barry Pearce: Good art energises you. Bad art sucks your energy. Why? Because you
Barry Pearce: have to work out what's wrong with it. And so
Barry Pearce: you put your mental energy into working out, resolving the
Barry Pearce: problems of art that didn't come off. He's good enough
Barry Pearce: to always give you energy. Every good work of art
Barry Pearce: does that. We want to make it a pleasurable place
Barry Pearce: where you can soak up something of the air that
Barry Pearce: the artist inhabited here when he was at his creative best,
Barry Pearce: you know. He made some wonderful works of art here.
Fenella Kernebone: But why preserve an artist's studio? And why this artist?
Fenella Kernebone: It's a question I put to Anne Ryan from the
Fenella Kernebone: Art Gallery of New South Wales.
Anne Ryan: When you're a curator, you're used to going to studios.
Anne Ryan: But for the vast majority of people, it's a mysterious
Anne Ryan: kind of world. And so to be able to show
Anne Ryan: a space like this that had an artist working in
Anne Ryan: it and to give some sense of what that was
Anne Ryan: like is a really rare thing. And it's a very
Anne Ryan: nice insight for the general public to start to access
Anne Ryan: that world. When you go to an art museum, you
Anne Ryan: see the final curated objects on the wall. If an
Anne Ryan: artwork has got into a museum such as the Art
Anne Ryan: Gallery of New South Wales, it's at the peak of
Anne Ryan: that artist's powers. It's really the final product. But to
Anne Ryan: get to that point, an artwork and an artist and
Anne Ryan: an artist's mind travels through a whole world. So having
Anne Ryan: a studio like the Brett Whiteley Studio museum is a
Anne Ryan: really nice way of beginning to tell that story.
Fenella Kernebone: For me, visiting Brett Studio is a wonderful way to
Fenella Kernebone: spend an afternoon. But for some contemporary artists, it's so
Fenella Kernebone: much more. It's an education, sometimes even a confirmation of
Fenella Kernebone: the path they're on.
Louise Zhang: While looking at all of Brett Whiteley's studio stuff right
Louise Zhang: in front of me, I can say, yes, we're a
Louise Zhang: bit messy, a lot of visceral materials. I think the
Louise Zhang: similarities would definitely be that the space is important to us.
Louise Zhang: It's a creative space, and we kind of fully take
Louise Zhang: on that space as a creative space.
Fenella Kernebone: This is Louise Zhang, a Chinese Australian artist who works
Fenella Kernebone: across painting, sculpture and installation.
Louise Zhang: Space is everything to me the importance of having a
Louise Zhang: space that is detached from your home because the idea
Louise Zhang: of home being a space to rest, and then the
Louise Zhang: studio as a space to work and that is a
Louise Zhang: space to think it's yours is very, very important to me.
Louise Zhang: It's also my safe space as well, so I know
Louise Zhang: that it's always there. But most importantly, it's a space
Louise Zhang: that you can shape, and, uh, so whether it's like
Louise Zhang: you're working on multiple projects or one project or whatever,
Louise Zhang: you're sitting there and thinking you're surrounded by all your ideas.
Louise Zhang: Everything that's in your brain is vomited on the walls.
Fenella Kernebone: What do you think about the idea of the artist's
Fenella Kernebone: studio becoming the museum?
Louise Zhang: I'm conflicted because – particularly as we stand in Brett Whiteley's studio –
Louise Zhang: I have flashbacks to when I was in grade seven
Louise Zhang: and we had an excursion and we came here and
Louise Zhang: we all had, like, a pad and some charcoal, and
Louise Zhang: we were just drawing and sketching. And I was, you know,
Louise Zhang: grade seven, loved art, was being like, 'Oh my God,
Louise Zhang: this is the best thing ever. I want a place
Louise Zhang: like this. I want stuff like this. I want paint
Louise Zhang: on the floor. I want all this space.' And so being
Louise Zhang: heavily inspired as a kid and also being told when
Louise Zhang: I was doing these charcoal sketches here that there's potential
Louise Zhang: for me to become an artist. So for that, this
Louise Zhang: space is like, it's meaningful to me in that sense
Louise Zhang: as I get older, other, um, the idea of kind of,
Louise Zhang: romanticising or preserving an artist's space. I don't know how
Louise Zhang: I feel about that in a sense because artists' spaces,
Louise Zhang: they're very personal, and having that opened up, to me,
Louise Zhang: if it was my space, doesn't feel quite right, so
Louise Zhang: I guess for educational purposes because it has directly affected me,
Louise Zhang: I'm all for it, but in a kind of commercial sense,
Louise Zhang: it's still figuring that part out, you know.
Fenella Kernebone: of course, it's more complicated than just getting the balance
Fenella Kernebone: of preservation and commercialisation right. We also need to consider
Fenella Kernebone: which artistic spaces we deem important, which ones we choose
Fenella Kernebone: to take care of and question not only why we
Fenella Kernebone: choose these ones.
Louise Zhang: The only studios I've been able to visit that are
Louise Zhang: preserved have often been white males' as well. You know
Louise Zhang: those kind of things where I have a bit of
Louise Zhang: like a 'Hey, hey, kids, you know, artist studios aren't
Louise Zhang: this one definition. This is just how one person worked.
Louise Zhang: This is just how Brett Whiteley worked. You can have your
Louise Zhang: own studio, if you do end up becoming an artist
Louise Zhang: or working in the creative field, that's completely different. It could
Louise Zhang: just be the back of your bedroom and you can still
Louise Zhang: be an artist. You don't need all this space this,
Louise Zhang: like you can still do it. So, yeah, I do
Louise Zhang: think that the ones that we've preserved and the ones
Louise Zhang: that are accessible there are benefits in it and in the
Louise Zhang: sense of inspiring us as kids. But it's important to
Louise Zhang: note that the majority of them are privileged white men who
Louise Zhang: have their space is preserved and is not a dictation
Louise Zhang: of what spaces should be like if you are to go
Louise Zhang: into this field and not all spaces are like this,
Fenella Kernebone: Maybe we need to start preserving your studio, Louise, what
Fenella Kernebone: do you reckon?
Louise Zhang: Oh, hey, if you want to give me all this, yeah, totally.
Louise Zhang: I'm up for it, absolutely.
Fenella Kernebone: Walking through Brett's studio, I can't help but wonder what
Fenella Kernebone: happens to the creative parts of our consciousness when we
Fenella Kernebone: visit these preserved spaces. And through preserving them, do these
Fenella Kernebone: spaces become more or less real?
David Eastwood: My name is David Eastwood. I'm an artist and a lecturer
David Eastwood: at the University of New South Wales, Art and Design.
Fenella Kernebone: I met up with David at Brett's Studio. As a
Fenella Kernebone: PhD student, he explored the afterlife of artists studios preserved
Fenella Kernebone: as museum spaces after their deaths. And, of course, there
Fenella Kernebone: are loads of artist studios like Brett's around the world,
Fenella Kernebone: like [Pablo] Picasso, [Auguste] Rodin, [Eugène] Delacroix's in Paris, Francis Bacon in Dublin
Fenella Kernebone: and because he's researched quite a few of them I
Fenella Kernebone: put it to David: how real are these spaces?
David Eastwood: Well, it's certainly got an aura to it. I mean, that's
David Eastwood: one of the things about posthumously preserved artist studios that
David Eastwood: you're meant to feel this sense of the artist's presence. And
David Eastwood: the fact that this is a space that he decorated
David Eastwood: himself and artefacts of his are left behind, the postcards
David Eastwood: all over the walls and the little inscriptions and so
David Eastwood: forth, there is certainly a palpable presence being inhabited by an
David Eastwood: individual who is no longer here. But his presence remains
David Eastwood: in what is left behind.
David Eastwood: Okay, so it doesn't, it doesn't feel to you like it's something
David Eastwood: that was the past. It still feels very present, feels contemporary.
David Eastwood: I encounter these places with a slight sense of suspicion. Like
David Eastwood: I'm being hoodwinked by museum curators into feeling something or
David Eastwood: thinking something. And there is always an element of stage-managing
David Eastwood: that you're aware of.
Fenella Kernebone: It's easy to come here and to be charmed by
Fenella Kernebone: the scattering of Brett's objects. But what about the role
Fenella Kernebone: of space like this has in preserving the artist's work?
David Eastwood: With Whiteley what we can see and the unfinished painting that's
David Eastwood: currently on show at the Whiteley studio shows us is
David Eastwood: with the unfinished works, y ou can see more of an
David Eastwood: insight into the process in which works were made and
David Eastwood: decisions are left exposed. For example, charcoal drawings that may
David Eastwood: have been filled in later and things being over painted
David Eastwood: but not fully resolved. So in various artist studios, the
David Eastwood: unfinished work is an important aspect of revealing something about
David Eastwood: the artist's process. But there's also, it creates this emotional connection
David Eastwood: for some people because when they walk into the studio
David Eastwood: and see an unfinished work, it contributes to that feeling
David Eastwood: that the artist has just left and could come back
David Eastwood: at any moment. And that's an observation that a lot
David Eastwood: of people make when they walk into posthumously preserved artist studios.
David Eastwood: There's a sense of keeping their memory alive, like they're just
David Eastwood: around the corner and could return.
Fenella Kernebone: One painting that has this effect, in particular, is titled 'Interior,
Fenella Kernebone: Lavender Bay (unfinished)'. It hangs on the back wall of Brett's
Fenella Kernebone: studio near his bedroom. Looking at it here, standing amongst
Fenella Kernebone: other visitors to the gallery, it sort of feels like Brett
Fenella Kernebone: could come back any minute, pick up his brush and
Fenella Kernebone: keep going. Okay, so what do visitors to the gallery think
Fenella Kernebone: of this piece?
Aiko from Japan: Maybe if we we go there, we go just museum, we
Aiko from Japan: couldn't feel this feeling. I feel like he was definitely here.
Unknown speaker: His spirit is still here.
Dave from London: So I can see there, I assume this is a
Dave from London: nude model here on the bottom, right ... and this kind of
Dave from London: slightly ghostly hand ...
Older person from Australia: I don't think that is unfinished because he wouldn't have
Older person from Australia: put his hand with the paintbrush. It was finished. That's
Older person from Australia: like to me, it'd be the last thing you'd put
Older person from Australia: in there.
Fenella Kernebone: If you'd like to see the piece online, go to agnsw.art/bwspodcast.
Fenella Kernebone: In the meantime, here's curator and Ryan describing it.
Anne Ryan: It's a picture of the artist at work. You can
Anne Ryan: see his hand coming in at the bottom of the canvas,
Anne Ryan: holding a brush. In the middle of the canvas, t here
Anne Ryan: is another picture. So he's painting a painting within that painting.
Anne Ryan: He's really re creating his own environment. There are objects
Anne Ryan: in the space where he's showing a ceramic that he's
Anne Ryan: made with a bunch of flowers. In it he's showing a
Anne Ryan: scroll painting that he's done of a willow and there's
Anne Ryan: a female nude in there, so he's really recreating his studio.
Anne Ryan: But of course it's not a finished painting. It's something
Anne Ryan: that he hasn't signed. It hasn't gone out into the world.
Fenella Kernebone: Anne explains that works like these are on display to
Fenella Kernebone: give us an insight into Brett's creative process – a glimpse into
Fenella Kernebone: how he made decisions, the thinking behind how work came together.
Anne Ryan: Because, of course, every artist makes a painting differently. But
Anne Ryan: for Brett, we can see some areas which are very,
Anne Ryan: very deliberate and complete, such as the scroll painting on
Anne Ryan: the left and then these other areas, such as the
Anne Ryan: drawn-in form of a female nude sculpture, which feels almost there.
Anne Ryan: But perhaps not, he's still working out how he's going
Anne Ryan: to finally have it in the work. There are little
Anne Ryan: bits of painting that are obscuring something underneath, so you
Anne Ryan: can see where he's changed his mind. But interestingly, of course,
Anne Ryan: this unfinished painting is framed as if it were ready
Anne Ryan: to go onto the wall of a gallery. So it's a,
Anne Ryan: it's a paradox
Fenella Kernebone: With Brett, b ehind every great painting is a great drawing.
Fenella Kernebone: But were it not for this gallery, we might not
Fenella Kernebone: know it. So what's a curator trying to show us
Fenella Kernebone: by putting this painting on display?
Anne Ryan: We all draw and some of the most interesting drawings
Anne Ryan: in the world and made by small children. Drawing is
Anne Ryan: a way where we can express what we're thinking. It's
Anne Ryan: a way of trying to understand something, whether it's understanding
Anne Ryan: how something exists in space, whether it's trying to recall
Anne Ryan: something or create something out of nothing. Drawing is a
Anne Ryan: very natural impulse that sometimes we repress until we get
Anne Ryan: to the point where we say, 'I can't draw', but everyone
Anne Ryan: starts off drawing. Brett Whiteley had a very great facility
Anne Ryan: for drawing. His line is very lyrical. It feels very confident.
Anne Ryan: So when you're looking at a drawing by Brett, a
Anne Ryan: good drawing by Brett, you get that sense of the
Anne Ryan: speed in which it's made the confidence he has in
Anne Ryan: getting down his idea. He's trying to capture a moment
Anne Ryan: or capture a form in space. Of course, his drawing
Anne Ryan: skill part of it was innate , but part of
Anne Ryan: it was the result of hard work, and that's the
Anne Ryan: thing people may not understand about an artist like Brett Whiteley.
Anne Ryan: We have this romantic idea that an artist springs forth,
Anne Ryan: fully formed some kind of genius, and certainly there is
Anne Ryan: a propensity there that pushes somebody to push, that innate
Anne Ryan: desire to create in a certain direction. But an artist
Anne Ryan: who loves to draw will draw all the time, and
Anne Ryan: they will do it wherever they are. And Brett was
Anne Ryan: one of those artists, and the thing that is lovely
Anne Ryan: about his draughtsmanship and his drawing is that it often
Anne Ryan: enters into all the other types of works he makes.
Anne Ryan: So you'll find drawing within paintings, you'll find drawing within printmaking.
Anne Ryan: You'll even find that sense of the drawn line in
Anne Ryan: a three dimensional object like a sculpture. So, yes, he
Anne Ryan: was one of the most talented draughtsman of his era.
Anne Ryan: The thing I like about his drawing is you get
Anne Ryan: the sense of enjoyment he got out of it and
Anne Ryan: the sense of great excitement he got when he was
Anne Ryan: making drawings. And when he does a good drawing, it's fantastic.
Fenella Kernebone: You say good, but what about bad? Like, what is
Fenella Kernebone: it when it's bad? Is it bad? Is it possible?
Anne Ryan: Art is subjective, but when you look at a lot of art,
Anne Ryan: you start to recognise art that feels authentic and real.
Anne Ryan: It's a really hard thing to explain, but sometimes you
Anne Ryan: just know if something has that power that brings you
Anne Ryan: to another place, it's not merely about skill. It's not
Anne Ryan: merely about being able to make your drawings look like
Anne Ryan: something in the real world. It's more about what that
Anne Ryan: drawing can evoke, that sense of something. This unfinished painting that
Anne Ryan: we're looking at has a drawn form at the bottom
Anne Ryan: of a female nude, and you can see the heft
Anne Ryan: of her form. You can see the weight of her
Anne Ryan: hips and her flesh lying on the floor. You can
Anne Ryan: see how with her arm that she's leaning on her
Anne Ryan: right arm. He's changed the movement of it. You can
Anne Ryan: get the sense of her shifting around on the floor,
Anne Ryan: her weight. That drawing tells you a lot more than
Anne Ryan: just the fact that he's drawing a naked female in
Anne Ryan: the studio. It's actually telling you something about the feeling
Anne Ryan: of that form and the emotions that it evokes. And
Anne Ryan: for some people, Brett Whiteley was very in tune with
Anne Ryan: his sexuality, and he gets a great deal of enjoyment
Anne Ryan: out of drawing the female nude because of what it
Anne Ryan: suggests sexually. But also there's a great tradition in Western
Anne Ryan: art of painting the nude, of drawing the nude to
Anne Ryan: try and understand form. And there's nothing more fascinating than
Anne Ryan: a human body in space and how it moves and
Anne Ryan: how it holds together and how it is in the world.
Anne Ryan: And so there's all these different layers in that, just
Anne Ryan: looking at this drawing here in front of us today.
Fenella Kernebone: To me, this is why we preserve an artist's studio. Sure,
Fenella Kernebone: I can go to the Art Gallery of New South
Fenella Kernebone: Wales and get lost staring into the deep blue of
Fenella Kernebone: Brett Whiteley's Sydney Harbour paintings. But it's not until you
Fenella Kernebone: visit his studio like this, see the postcards that he's pinned to his wall,
Fenella Kernebone: the albums lined up, the paint spattered on the floor
Fenella Kernebone: and unfinished paintings, that you start to really get an
Fenella Kernebone: understanding of what makes a Brett Whiteley a Brett Whitely.
Fenella Kernebone: Thank you to this episode's guests: Anne Ryan, Louise Zhang, Wendy Whiteley,
Fenella Kernebone: Barry Pearce, Deborah Kelly and David Eastwood. This podcast has
Fenella Kernebone: been brought to you by the Brett Whiteley Studio in
Fenella Kernebone: collaboration with the Art Gallery of New South Wales. You
Fenella Kernebone: can visit Brett's studio in Sydney from Thursday to Sunday.
Fenella Kernebone: Admission is free.
Fenella Kernebone: My name's Fenella Kernebone. Thanks for joining me.