WEBVTT - Interior, Lavender Bay 0:00:00.700 --> 0:00:03.840 A quick heads-up, in this series we talk about drug use, 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.359 mental health issues, and there's a bit of swearing. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.330 This is 'Art, life and the other thing', a podcast 0:00:11.340 --> 0:00:14.180 about Brett Whiteley, the themes surrounding his work and the 0:00:14.180 --> 0:00:17.870 impression he continues to have on the contemporary art world. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.080 I'm Fenella Kernebone, and I'd like to acknowledge the traditional 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.460 custodians of the land on which this podcast was made, 0:00:24.470 --> 0:00:27.550 the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.170 In each episode, we will dive into one of Brett 0:00:30.170 --> 0:00:34.600 Whiteley's artworks, from a painting as iconic as 'The balcony 2' of 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.950 Sydney Harbour, to his unfinished painting 'Interior, Lavender Bay'. 0:00:39.340 --> 0:00:41.770 We'll look at the impact Brett Whiteley has had on 0:00:41.770 --> 0:00:44.660 the art world over the past 60 years and talk 0:00:44.659 --> 0:00:47.379 to contemporary artists about his work and about how his 0:00:47.380 --> 0:00:50.860 work and style may have influenced their own career. 0:00:52.740 --> 0:00:55.170 Coming up in the series, we'll talk about the self-portrait 0:00:55.820 --> 0:00:58.390 and why artists are so drawn to this genre. 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.000 For Brett Whiteley, a lot of his work really was 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.620 about trying to work out where he fitted in, and 0:01:03.620 --> 0:01:08.520 I think self-portraiture is an expression of that curiosity in 0:01:08.530 --> 0:01:09.750 his own mind. 0:01:10.340 --> 0:01:13.610 ...iconic artworks and what gives a painting that status? 0:01:13.620 --> 0:01:18.710 Good painting floods me with emotion that's hard to pinpoint, really. Like, 0:01:18.709 --> 0:01:25.260 it's somewhere between love and pain, really. I can't describe why. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.300 ...pieces from the past and how they stack up when 0:01:28.300 --> 0:01:30.430 we view them through a contemporary lens. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.050 So the female nude is allowable in a certain way, 0:01:34.060 --> 0:01:37.360 but never actually shown with all her human anatomy. 0:01:37.740 --> 0:01:40.320 That's funny, isn't it? It's a censored view, even though 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:41.910 it's also ubiquitous. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.810 ...and the mental state of the artist and how that 0:01:44.819 --> 0:01:46.789 impacts on their creativity. 0:01:47.340 --> 0:01:49.290 But he could go into a space where he just 0:01:49.290 --> 0:01:51.760 switched off; he was so friendly a minute ago and 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.380 then suddenly bang, you know. Life was always intense for him. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.050 He loathed the feeling of failure in himself. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.710 But first, in this episode, we're going to look at 0:02:11.710 --> 0:02:14.580 an unfinished painting that was found in storage in the 0:02:14.580 --> 0:02:16.660 Brett Whiteley Studio after his death. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.720 Preserving an artist's studio gives an incomplete piece like this 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.250 one somewhere to be displayed, and it feels right to 0:02:24.250 --> 0:02:26.930 see it hanging, to give visitors a sense of the 0:02:26.930 --> 0:02:28.760 artist and his way of working. 0:02:29.340 --> 0:02:32.160 But why do we preserve these types of spaces? 0:02:32.540 --> 0:02:34.960 And what does it reveal about the artist themselves? 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.000 So I'm heading to the Studio now, walking along a 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:44.200 narrow street in Surry Hills. It's a suburb in Sydney's 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.610 inner city. On one side of the road, just over there, 0:02:48.610 --> 0:02:51.690 all these terraced houses sit closely together, and then on 0:02:51.690 --> 0:02:54.900 the other side there's a long wall. There's no windows, 0:02:54.900 --> 0:02:59.810 just one big wooden door. So here we are. This 0:02:59.810 --> 0:03:02.760 is it. The door to Brett Whiteley's studio, the place 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.980 where one of the country's most celebrated artists lived and 0:03:05.980 --> 0:03:10.850 worked for seven years until his death in 1992. Behind 0:03:10.850 --> 0:03:13.730 these walls are some of his most famous pieces of art. 0:03:13.740 --> 0:03:16.910 To be honest, some of Australia's most famous pieces of 0:03:16.910 --> 0:03:17.359 art. 0:03:19.340 --> 0:03:23.050 Welcome to the Brett Whiteley Studio. Have you been here before at all? 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.060 So who was Brett Whiteley? Many think of him as 0:03:32.060 --> 0:03:37.220 Australia's original celebrity artist, celebrated both for his talent and 0:03:37.220 --> 0:03:41.620 his wild lifestyle. But to understand Whiteley and his fame, 0:03:41.630 --> 0:03:46.240 we need to know where he came from. Brett's artistic 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.860 journey began as soon as he was old enough to 0:03:48.860 --> 0:03:52.760 hold a pencil, and that artistic instinct led to his 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.860 first big break as the winner of a scholarship to 0:03:55.860 --> 0:04:01.360 travel overseas to immerse himself in the dynamic European art scene. 0:04:01.540 --> 0:04:04.090 It didn't take long for Brett to break through, and 0:04:04.090 --> 0:04:07.930 in 1961 at the age of just 22 he became 0:04:07.930 --> 0:04:11.100 the youngest painter ever to have his work acquired by 0:04:11.100 --> 0:04:15.760 the most prestigious gallery in the United Kingdom, the Tate Gallery. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.080 For the next decade, Brett travelled from London to New York, 0:04:19.089 --> 0:04:22.820 rising in stature and recognition within the art world before 0:04:22.820 --> 0:04:26.760 finally returning home in 1969. And it was here in 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.680 Sydney that he cemented his reputation as one of the 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.110 great modern artists. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.099 He won the Archibald portrait prize – Australia's prestigious portrait award – 0:04:36.110 --> 0:04:40.210 in 1976 and then in 1978 he went on to 0:04:40.210 --> 0:04:43.320 win not only the Archibald for a second time, but 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.539 he also claimed the hat-trick: he won the Sulman and 0:04:46.540 --> 0:04:54.090 the Wynne Prizes, too. When we think of Brett Whiteley today, 0:04:54.100 --> 0:04:57.240 'troubled genius' comes to mind, but he was more than that. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.160 He was also extremely hard-working and dedicated to making art. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.640 You really get a sense of this. When you step 0:05:03.650 --> 0:05:07.250 inside his studio, it almost feels like you're entering the 0:05:07.260 --> 0:05:11.700 inner workings of his mind. Barry Pearce, the former curator 0:05:11.700 --> 0:05:14.430 of Australian art at the Art Gallery of New South Wales, 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.659 recalls the space as often being pretty chaotic. 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.950 ... and he had paintings everywhere and paints very untidy. You know, 0:05:21.950 --> 0:05:25.659 it wasn't organised like it became later. 0:05:26.339 --> 0:05:29.219 And here's Wendy Whiteley, Brett's former wife and the subject 0:05:29.230 --> 0:05:32.140 of many of his paintings talking about the area in 0:05:32.140 --> 0:05:35.660 1995 when the studio first opened to the public. 0:05:35.740 --> 0:05:39.520 Surry Hills itself has changed a lot. When the studio 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.860 first opened, which was during the same time that the 0:05:42.870 --> 0:05:45.760 Brett's retrospective at the Art Gallery of New South Wales and 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:51.460 the Studio as a cohesive entity was happening, the premier 0:05:51.460 --> 0:05:55.250 at the time entered Raper Street with a kind of 0:05:55.260 --> 0:06:00.300 terrified look on his face, surrounded by guards, because I 0:06:00.300 --> 0:06:04.110 think they thought Surry Hills was so dangerous and so 0:06:04.110 --> 0:06:07.320 down at heel at the time. Then he walked in 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.160 through those doors and you could see he was transformed 0:06:11.940 --> 0:06:13.260 by the experience. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.430 When he moved in, Brett renovated the space, transforming the 0:06:16.430 --> 0:06:20.750 downstairs into an art gallery. Here's Barry Pearce again, reflecting on 0:06:20.750 --> 0:06:22.530 what Brett saw in the space. 0:06:22.650 --> 0:06:25.469 He was imagining how he was going to use the space. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.670 This was going to be the kitchen. He was going 0:06:27.670 --> 0:06:29.860 to have a bedroom out the back there. The studio 0:06:29.860 --> 0:06:32.320 was there looking out over the balcony. nd the main 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.160 thing he said that the reason he liked the space because 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.310 he could imagine he could have everything. He could have 0:06:37.310 --> 0:06:40.990 a working environment where he could have peace and quiet 0:06:40.990 --> 0:06:44.540 if wanted to, o r he could have mad parties if 0:06:44.540 --> 0:06:47.090 he wanted to do, with plenty of people. Or he 0:06:47.089 --> 0:06:49.510 could use the bottom as a sort of a mini gallery, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.460 like a museum, for his own work. 0:06:51.940 --> 0:06:54.960 Brett used the downstairs area as a rehearsal space for 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:55.820 his artworks. 0:06:56.339 --> 0:06:59.370 I think he just wanted his own private view of 0:06:59.380 --> 0:07:02.750 how the paintings were going to work together in preparation 0:07:02.750 --> 0:07:04.620 for an exhibition. But it would give him a chance 0:07:04.620 --> 0:07:06.450 to shuffle the pictures around and hang them on the 0:07:06.450 --> 0:07:10.850 wall with nice lighting, prepping himself, like rehearsing, very theatrical. 0:07:10.850 --> 0:07:13.760 If you think about it, this was his rehearsal space, 0:07:14.340 --> 0:07:16.630 or downstairs I'm talking about, not up here so much, 0:07:16.630 --> 0:07:17.660 as living up here. 0:07:24.940 --> 0:07:27.940 Upstairs is more cosy. That's where the bedroom and the 0:07:27.940 --> 0:07:30.700 kitchen are. There's also a space with a black leather 0:07:30.700 --> 0:07:34.850 couch and postcards and photographs on the wall. This is 0:07:34.850 --> 0:07:38.750 where Brett lived, where he rested and, yes, sometimes partied. 0:07:39.220 --> 0:07:42.600 It's where he felt most at home. Here's Wendy again. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.210 The living room well, the living room hasn't changed that much. It 0:07:47.210 --> 0:07:50.490 is almost the same photographs up on the back of 0:07:50.490 --> 0:07:54.730 the door and above the desk, and the little collection 0:07:54.730 --> 0:07:59.950 of CDs and things. The music, that hasn't changed that much. 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.900 The floor. When Brett was first there he had this, 0:08:03.970 --> 0:08:08.840 it was pretty horrible actually, kind of pale apricot-coloured carpet all 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.440 over it, just completely worn by people walking up and 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.190 down on it when we opened the thing, and so 0:08:14.190 --> 0:08:16.750 eventually we took it up and discovered it had a 0:08:16.750 --> 0:08:20.060 very beautiful old floor from ... the back part of the 0:08:20.060 --> 0:08:23.050 studio is actually a very old building, the brick part. 0:08:23.780 --> 0:08:26.590 I think it must have been a kind of hayloft 0:08:26.590 --> 0:08:27.660 up there. 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:32.520 Up there is his studio. There's tins of paint, glass jars, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.290 holding brushes and easels set up and ready to go. 0:08:35.300 --> 0:08:38.910 Carefully scattered around are Brett's things that have been collected over 0:08:38.910 --> 0:08:42.699 the years, including birds eggs, magazines, postcards. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.420 We're here on a mezzanine level, where the room is 0:08:47.429 --> 0:08:51.030 almost as if he would have used it himself. So 0:08:51.030 --> 0:08:53.860 there are artists' materials on the floor. The floor is 0:08:53.860 --> 0:08:58.500 lined with wood, which is covered with spatters and paint marks. 0:08:58.510 --> 0:09:01.370 There's a rolled up carpet in the corner. A lot 0:09:01.370 --> 0:09:04.610 of artists studios that I visited have these daggy old carpets, 0:09:04.610 --> 0:09:07.260 and they're there to keep you warm. So it's a, 0:09:07.340 --> 0:09:10.150 it's an environment that feels very much as if the 0:09:10.150 --> 0:09:13.550 artist had left it not so long ago. 0:09:14.140 --> 0:09:16.940 This is Anne Ryan, curator of Australian art at the 0:09:16.940 --> 0:09:18.550 Art Gallery of New South Wales. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.800 Of course, it's not as he would have left it. 0:09:21.809 --> 0:09:25.829 It's dusted. It's tidy, even though the materials are all 0:09:25.830 --> 0:09:28.580 over the floor, his books are on a bookcase by 0:09:28.580 --> 0:09:32.300 the wall. There are inscriptions that he wrote on the wall, 0:09:32.300 --> 0:09:35.360 and postcards and images of artworks and other objects that 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:40.179 he collected around himself as stimuli. It's a curated vision of 0:09:40.179 --> 0:09:44.260 what an artist studio is like, and some artist studios 0:09:44.260 --> 0:09:46.840 are super organised and neat and tidy, and others are 0:09:46.850 --> 0:09:50.559 complete chaos. And this one feels sort of slightly in between, really. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.850 After Brett and Wendy separated, he moved into the studio 0:09:54.850 --> 0:09:58.400 full time and lived here until he died in 1992 0:09:58.410 --> 0:10:01.820 at the age of 53. It was Wendy and Arkie, 0:10:01.820 --> 0:10:04.150 their daughter, who came up with the idea to turn 0:10:04.150 --> 0:10:07.579 Brett's studio into a living museum. They wanted to both 0:10:07.580 --> 0:10:10.660 preserve his legacy and find a way to continue to 0:10:10.660 --> 0:10:14.530 showcase his work. The studio was purchased by the state 0:10:14.530 --> 0:10:17.559 government and later managed by the Art Gallery of New 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:21.500 South Wales. Here, Brett's work is exhibited, along with an 0:10:21.500 --> 0:10:25.060 annual exhibition of young artists nominated as finalists for the 0:10:25.059 --> 0:10:28.260 Brett Whiteley Travelling Art Scholarship. Here's Wendy 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:34.220 The downstairs show and the kind of exhibition space - which is 0:10:34.220 --> 0:10:36.689 all the whole thing, the whole thing is a unit, as 0:10:36.690 --> 0:10:39.650 far as I see it, one thing relates to the other – the 0:10:40.429 --> 0:10:43.470 thing is that it was a kind of almost ready 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.640 made when Brett died for the government to actually take 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.890 it on as an idea. It was because it was 0:10:50.900 --> 0:10:54.059 kind of there had existed almost as it is. I mean, 0:10:54.059 --> 0:10:58.090 we changed the exhibitions, and we've had to organise things 0:10:58.090 --> 0:11:00.360 for the public to be able to use the space. 0:11:00.370 --> 0:11:03.040 But it's very much like it was when Brett was there, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.320 because he actually made those inner shells from an old 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.689 T shirt factory and turned it into a very beautiful white space. 0:11:11.780 --> 0:11:14.910 And it's got its store rooms. It's got toilets for 0:11:14.910 --> 0:11:18.400 the public et cetera, et cetera, but it feels intimate and 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.070 enclosed for people, so it's very distinct from going into 0:11:22.070 --> 0:11:24.309 a big museum. Even if you're going to see one 0:11:24.309 --> 0:11:28.650 artist's work, you walk into the home as well as 0:11:29.050 --> 0:11:31.610 the artist's working space. And I think that's what makes 0:11:31.610 --> 0:11:35.449 a big difference and why people really love it as a space 0:11:35.450 --> 0:11:38.069 and really like to see a run of an artist's 0:11:38.070 --> 0:11:39.050 work that much. 0:11:39.740 --> 0:11:44.429 Recently, the Studio celebrated an important anniversary. It's been 25 0:11:44.429 --> 0:11:48.819 years since the Studio's solid timber door open to the public, and, 0:11:48.820 --> 0:11:51.949 as Wendy says, the Studio itself hasn't changed much. 0:11:52.340 --> 0:11:56.200 The paints and the actual working materials are pretty well 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.200 as they were but it's 25, 30 years ago. When it gets 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.930 to be that stage occasionally they have to be dusted, 0:12:02.940 --> 0:12:05.420 the books and things were more or less like Brett 0:12:05.420 --> 0:12:08.020 had them. The stuff on the walls is the same. 0:12:08.020 --> 0:12:11.290 What does change from time to time are the works 0:12:11.290 --> 0:12:13.670 that are actually hung on the wall so that they 0:12:13.670 --> 0:12:17.940 actually become part of the exhibition. I don't think there's... I've 0:12:17.940 --> 0:12:20.569 never thought that there's that much benefit to just leave 0:12:20.570 --> 0:12:24.079 a stack of old boards stacked up against the wall 0:12:24.090 --> 0:12:26.530 taking up space. It's just an opportunity to show a 0:12:26.530 --> 0:12:30.600 few more works to people at the time, but it retains. Hopefully, 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.550 the sense of that's where Brett was working, using the same tools. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.520 The chair never changes. Can't let anyone sit in anymore . 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.400 It's become a kind of sacred icon. That chair would 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.510 probably fall apart if anyone sat in it anyway. But 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.089 this last exhibition, I think you can see it. There's 0:12:47.090 --> 0:12:49.960 a chair from Lavender Bay that relates to a work 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.660 that was made in Lavender Bay, and so I brought 0:12:52.660 --> 0:12:55.250 that into the Studio there, and things like that will 0:12:55.250 --> 0:12:57.920 probably end up in the Studio when I'm dead anyway. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.360 But the rest of the stuff is, yeah, fundamentally the same. 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.590 People who come in there for the first time are 0:13:04.590 --> 0:13:08.619 amazed at it. They're really excited and amazed by it. It's not going to 0:13:08.620 --> 0:13:12.890 win everybody over, but it certainly has its place, I 0:13:12.890 --> 0:13:14.350 think, a very strong place. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.540 Yes, there's an energy to this space. Whether you like 0:13:18.540 --> 0:13:21.679 Brett's work or not, you do feel a certain pull 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.490 to it. Here, surrounded by his works in progress, his brushes, 0:13:25.500 --> 0:13:29.939 his favourite books. Barry Pearce, curator, has a theory for 0:13:29.940 --> 0:13:30.850 why this is so. 0:13:32.050 --> 0:13:36.630 Good art energises you. Bad art sucks your energy. Why? Because you 0:13:36.630 --> 0:13:38.809 have to work out what's wrong with it. And so 0:13:38.809 --> 0:13:41.950 you put your mental energy into working out, resolving the 0:13:41.950 --> 0:13:45.760 problems of art that didn't come off. He's good enough 0:13:46.140 --> 0:13:50.400 to always give you energy. Every good work of art 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.830 does that. We want to make it a pleasurable place 0:13:52.830 --> 0:13:56.079 where you can soak up something of the air that 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.679 the artist inhabited here when he was at his creative best, 0:14:00.690 --> 0:14:04.060 you know. He made some wonderful works of art here. 0:14:04.940 --> 0:14:08.910 But why preserve an artist's studio? And why this artist? 0:14:09.020 --> 0:14:11.030 It's a question I put to Anne Ryan from the 0:14:11.030 --> 0:14:12.559 Art Gallery of New South Wales. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.530 When you're a curator, you're used to going to studios. 0:14:15.530 --> 0:14:19.369 But for the vast majority of people, it's a mysterious 0:14:19.370 --> 0:14:21.950 kind of world. And so to be able to show 0:14:21.950 --> 0:14:24.940 a space like this that had an artist working in 0:14:24.940 --> 0:14:27.060 it and to give some sense of what that was 0:14:27.060 --> 0:14:29.180 like is a really rare thing. And it's a very 0:14:29.180 --> 0:14:33.460 nice insight for the general public to start to access 0:14:33.460 --> 0:14:35.960 that world. When you go to an art museum, you 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.220 see the final curated objects on the wall. If an 0:14:39.220 --> 0:14:41.490 artwork has got into a museum such as the Art 0:14:41.490 --> 0:14:44.160 Gallery of New South Wales, it's at the peak of 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.250 that artist's powers. It's really the final product. But to 0:14:48.250 --> 0:14:51.610 get to that point, an artwork and an artist and 0:14:51.610 --> 0:14:55.780 an artist's mind travels through a whole world. So having 0:14:55.780 --> 0:14:58.780 a studio like the Brett Whiteley Studio museum is a 0:14:58.780 --> 0:15:03.060 really nice way of beginning to tell that story. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.820 For me, visiting Brett Studio is a wonderful way to 0:15:08.820 --> 0:15:12.660 spend an afternoon. But for some contemporary artists, it's so 0:15:12.660 --> 0:15:17.200 much more. It's an education, sometimes even a confirmation of 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.520 the path they're on. 0:15:18.530 --> 0:15:21.440 While looking at all of Brett Whiteley's studio stuff right 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.620 in front of me, I can say, yes, we're a 0:15:23.620 --> 0:15:29.230 bit messy, a lot of visceral materials. I think the 0:15:29.230 --> 0:15:33.200 similarities would definitely be that the space is important to us. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.640 It's a creative space, and we kind of fully take 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.660 on that space as a creative space. 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.690 This is Louise Zhang, a Chinese Australian artist who works 0:15:41.690 --> 0:15:44.430 across painting, sculpture and installation. 0:15:44.530 --> 0:15:48.190 Space is everything to me the importance of having a 0:15:48.190 --> 0:15:51.760 space that is detached from your home because the idea 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.060 of home being a space to rest, and then the 0:15:55.060 --> 0:15:57.760 studio as a space to work and that is a 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.200 space to think it's yours is very, very important to me. 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.060 It's also my safe space as well, so I know 0:16:04.060 --> 0:16:06.520 that it's always there. But most importantly, it's a space 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.800 that you can shape, and, uh, so whether it's like 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.220 you're working on multiple projects or one project or whatever, 0:16:13.220 --> 0:16:16.820 you're sitting there and thinking you're surrounded by all your ideas. 0:16:16.820 --> 0:16:19.260 Everything that's in your brain is vomited on the walls. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.130 What do you think about the idea of the artist's 0:16:22.130 --> 0:16:24.060 studio becoming the museum? 0:16:24.940 --> 0:16:30.850 I'm conflicted because – particularly as we stand in Brett Whiteley's studio – 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.950 I have flashbacks to when I was in grade seven 0:16:33.950 --> 0:16:38.830 and we had an excursion and we came here and 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.960 we all had, like, a pad and some charcoal, and 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.800 we were just drawing and sketching. And I was, you know, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.210 grade seven, loved art, was being like, 'Oh my God, 0:16:47.210 --> 0:16:49.400 this is the best thing ever. I want a place 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.700 like this. I want stuff like this. I want paint 0:16:51.700 --> 0:16:54.200 on the floor. I want all this space.' And so being 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.640 heavily inspired as a kid and also being told when 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.170 I was doing these charcoal sketches here that there's potential 0:17:01.170 --> 0:17:03.900 for me to become an artist. So for that, this 0:17:03.900 --> 0:17:07.369 space is like, it's meaningful to me in that sense 0:17:07.380 --> 0:17:10.840 as I get older, other, um, the idea of kind of, 0:17:10.850 --> 0:17:15.800 romanticising or preserving an artist's space. I don't know how 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.580 I feel about that in a sense because artists' spaces, 0:17:19.740 --> 0:17:24.219 they're very personal, and having that opened up, to me, 0:17:24.230 --> 0:17:28.520 if it was my space, doesn't feel quite right, so 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.510 I guess for educational purposes because it has directly affected me, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.949 I'm all for it, but in a kind of commercial sense, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.550 it's still figuring that part out, you know. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.520 of course, it's more complicated than just getting the balance 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.710 of preservation and commercialisation right. We also need to consider 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:52.139 which artistic spaces we deem important, which ones we choose 0:17:52.140 --> 0:17:54.800 to take care of and question not only why we 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:55.859 choose these ones. 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.350 The only studios I've been able to visit that are 0:17:59.350 --> 0:18:04.590 preserved have often been white males' as well. You know 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.619 those kind of things where I have a bit of 0:18:06.619 --> 0:18:10.620 like a 'Hey, hey, kids, you know, artist studios aren't 0:18:10.619 --> 0:18:13.300 this one definition. This is just how one person worked. 0:18:13.300 --> 0:18:15.510 This is just how Brett Whiteley worked. You can have your 0:18:15.510 --> 0:18:18.129 own studio, if you do end up becoming an artist 0:18:18.130 --> 0:18:21.510 or working in the creative field, that's completely different. It could 0:18:21.670 --> 0:18:23.930 just be the back of your bedroom and you can still 0:18:23.930 --> 0:18:26.400 be an artist. You don't need all this space this, 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.730 like you can still do it. So, yeah, I do 0:18:29.730 --> 0:18:32.120 think that the ones that we've preserved and the ones 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.000 that are accessible there are benefits in it and in the 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.820 sense of inspiring us as kids. But it's important to 0:18:37.820 --> 0:18:42.159 note that the majority of them are privileged white men who 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.340 have their space is preserved and is not a dictation 0:18:45.350 --> 0:18:48.650 of what spaces should be like if you are to go 0:18:48.650 --> 0:18:51.600 into this field and not all spaces are like this, 0:18:51.609 --> 0:18:54.760 Maybe we need to start preserving your studio, Louise, what 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:55.860 do you reckon? 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.480 Oh, hey, if you want to give me all this, yeah, totally. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.260 I'm up for it, absolutely. 0:19:01.340 --> 0:19:06.850 Walking through Brett's studio, I can't help but wonder what 0:19:06.850 --> 0:19:10.320 happens to the creative parts of our consciousness when we 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.280 visit these preserved spaces. And through preserving them, do these 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.169 spaces become more or less real? 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.070 My name is David Eastwood. I'm an artist and a lecturer 0:19:20.070 --> 0:19:23.310 at the University of New South Wales, Art and Design. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.600 I met up with David at Brett's Studio. As a 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:30.720 PhD student, he explored the afterlife of artists studios preserved 0:19:30.730 --> 0:19:34.410 as museum spaces after their deaths. And, of course, there 0:19:34.410 --> 0:19:37.530 are loads of artist studios like Brett's around the world, 0:19:37.540 --> 0:19:42.260 like [Pablo] Picasso, [Auguste] Rodin, [Eugène] Delacroix's in Paris, Francis Bacon in Dublin 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.709 and because he's researched quite a few of them I 0:19:44.710 --> 0:19:48.010 put it to David: how real are these spaces? 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.240 Well, it's certainly got an aura to it. I mean, that's 0:19:52.250 --> 0:19:57.700 one of the things about posthumously preserved artist studios that 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.780 you're meant to feel this sense of the artist's presence. And 0:20:02.790 --> 0:20:07.040 the fact that this is a space that he decorated 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:12.469 himself and artefacts of his are left behind, the postcards 0:20:12.470 --> 0:20:16.080 all over the walls and the little inscriptions and so 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.959 forth, there is certainly a palpable presence being inhabited by an 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.320 individual who is no longer here. But his presence remains 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.080 in what is left behind. 0:20:27.250 --> 0:20:29.790 Okay, so it doesn't, it doesn't feel to you like it's something 0:20:29.790 --> 0:20:33.850 that was the past. It still feels very present, feels contemporary. 0:20:35.140 --> 0:20:39.780 I encounter these places with a slight sense of suspicion. Like 0:20:39.780 --> 0:20:45.030 I'm being hoodwinked by museum curators into feeling something or 0:20:45.030 --> 0:20:50.900 thinking something. And there is always an element of stage-managing 0:20:51.970 --> 0:20:53.560 that you're aware of. 0:20:54.340 --> 0:20:56.770 It's easy to come here and to be charmed by 0:20:56.770 --> 0:21:00.020 the scattering of Brett's objects. But what about the role 0:21:00.020 --> 0:21:03.480 of space like this has in preserving the artist's work? 0:21:03.490 --> 0:21:09.010 With Whiteley what we can see and the unfinished painting that's 0:21:09.010 --> 0:21:14.030 currently on show at the Whiteley studio shows us is 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.479 with the unfinished works, y ou can see more of an 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.950 insight into the process in which works were made and 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:28.930 decisions are left exposed. For example, charcoal drawings that may 0:21:28.930 --> 0:21:32.340 have been filled in later and things being over painted 0:21:32.340 --> 0:21:37.660 but not fully resolved. So in various artist studios, the 0:21:37.660 --> 0:21:42.160 unfinished work is an important aspect of revealing something about 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:48.000 the artist's process. But there's also, it creates this emotional connection 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.620 for some people because when they walk into the studio 0:21:50.630 --> 0:21:54.189 and see an unfinished work, it contributes to that feeling 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.910 that the artist has just left and could come back 0:21:56.910 --> 0:21:59.390 at any moment. And that's an observation that a lot 0:21:59.390 --> 0:22:04.780 of people make when they walk into posthumously preserved artist studios. 0:22:04.780 --> 0:22:10.109 There's a sense of keeping their memory alive, like they're just 0:22:10.109 --> 0:22:12.550 around the corner and could return. 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.070 One painting that has this effect, in particular, is titled 'Interior, 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.640 Lavender Bay (unfinished)'. It hangs on the back wall of Brett's 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.080 studio near his bedroom. Looking at it here, standing amongst 0:22:26.090 --> 0:22:29.100 other visitors to the gallery, it sort of feels like Brett 0:22:29.100 --> 0:22:32.090 could come back any minute, pick up his brush and 0:22:32.090 --> 0:22:36.129 keep going. Okay, so what do visitors to the gallery think 0:22:36.130 --> 0:22:36.960 of this piece? 0:22:37.540 --> 0:22:41.840 Maybe if we we go there, we go just museum, we 0:22:43.030 --> 0:22:50.600 couldn't feel this feeling. I feel like he was definitely here. 0:22:50.609 --> 0:22:52.760 His spirit is still here. 0:22:52.770 --> 0:22:56.500 So I can see there, I assume this is a 0:22:56.510 --> 0:23:00.500 nude model here on the bottom, right ... and this kind of 0:23:00.510 --> 0:23:01.730 slightly ghostly hand ... 0:23:01.970 --> 0:23:04.439 I don't think that is unfinished because he wouldn't have 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.530 put his hand with the paintbrush. It was finished. That's 0:23:08.530 --> 0:23:10.560 like to me, it'd be the last thing you'd put 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:10.860 in there. 0:23:13.740 --> 0:23:17.190 If you'd like to see the piece online, go to agnsw.art/bwspodcast. 0:23:21.940 --> 0:23:25.169