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Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course

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Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Some parts

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Speaker 1: of this infuriating case about the sudden disappearance of Bromwin

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Speaker 1: Winfield one unremarkable night in May nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: Three are stranger than fiction.

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Speaker 1: My longtime friend Matthew Condon, a widely published author, journalist

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Speaker 1: for The Australian and podcaster, was dagged when I first

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Speaker 1: shared with him a lengthy email written by someone in

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Speaker 1: Lenox Head will call the person who wrote to me, Alex.

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Speaker 2: Matt read it and got back to me quickly.

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Speaker 3: He said, WHOA, this is entering suburban Gothic territory.

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Speaker 1: Matt knows more about popular culture, books, movies, TV series

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Speaker 1: and music than most of his colleagues. I thought I

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Speaker 1: knew what he meant, but to be sure, I went

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Speaker 1: to Wikipedia for a crash guide to suburban Gothic. The

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Speaker 1: online encyclopedia says that suburban Gothic is dealing with concerns

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Speaker 1: about hidden Gothic worlds behind the suburban facade. The TV

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Speaker 1: series Twin Peaks, as well as acclaimed productions from Buffy

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Speaker 1: the Vampire Slayer to Desperate Housewives to American Horror Story

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Speaker 1: and Stepford Wives are cited as compelling examples. In the

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Speaker 1: first two seasons of Bromwin, A suburban facade in Sandstone Crescent,

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Speaker 1: Lennox Head has been laid bare. But now we are

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Speaker 1: traveling a few kilometers east, closer to Boulder Beach and

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Speaker 1: Skinner's Head and the fortress like home built by John

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Speaker 1: Winfield more than twenty years ago with funds from the

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine sale of the house in which a

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Speaker 1: young mother, Bromwyn Joy Winfield was last seen on the

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Speaker 1: night of May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three. Bromwin never returned

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Speaker 1: to see her children or to seek a single dollar

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Speaker 1: from the sale proceeds of that house, even though she

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Speaker 1: was entitled to as much as half the equity.

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Speaker 2: John took it all. Now we are hovering over another address.

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Speaker 1: A third property. It is a stone's throw from John's

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Speaker 1: newer home. The house we are outside belonged to a

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Speaker 1: woman called Beverly Brooker. She lived alone. It has an

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Speaker 1: ocean lookout. But here's the unusual thing. Beverly's old house

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Speaker 1: now belongs to John Winfield. This is the story of Beverly,

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Speaker 1: the story of Bev's life and her assets worth several

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Speaker 1: million dollars, the story of Bev's death, and how almost

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Speaker 1: all those assets quietly fell into John's hands. Shortly before

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Speaker 1: this podcast investigation started, Alex began the first of several

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Speaker 1: lengthy pieces of correspondence to me like this.

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Speaker 4: Please find attached some info I'd like to share regarding

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Speaker 4: your investigation and podcast into the disappearance of Bronwyn Winfield.

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Speaker 4: I only became aware of this case and John's identity

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Speaker 4: in recent years, and was somewhat taken aback.

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Speaker 1: The words that you are hearing were written by someone

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Speaker 1: who had just a little to do with Bev Brooker.

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Speaker 1: While Bev lived in what was for some years her

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Speaker 1: ocean face home in Skemmer's Head.

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Speaker 4: She seemed quite a lonely person, almost afraid of people.

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Speaker 4: My initial thoughts were that she had some kind of

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Speaker 4: social phobia or anxiety disorder, or had experienced some kind

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Speaker 4: of trauma throughout her life. As a result, I felt

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Speaker 4: a bit sorry for her, but I was curious to

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Speaker 4: know more about her.

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Speaker 1: I'm protecting the identity of the person who has been

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Speaker 1: talking and writing to me about Bev. A female actor's

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Speaker 1: voice is helping achieve this.

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Speaker 4: I do currently feel compelled to write to you as

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Speaker 4: I think the case needs to be solved, and perhaps

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Speaker 4: some of this following information may be of assistance.

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Speaker 1: Because of the sensitivity, I'm not going to confirm or

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Speaker 1: deny whether the individual is male or female. This source

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Speaker 1: is going to be known from here on as Alex,

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Speaker 1: and that's deliberate too. It's a gender neutral name. Alex

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Speaker 1: wanted to write and talk about the woman who once

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Speaker 1: lived near John, Bevbrooker.

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Speaker 4: She was quite reserved, quietly spoken, somewhat expressionless, and her

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Speaker 4: speech was slow and deliberate, like she had to put

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Speaker 4: thought into each word or sentence before she said it.

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Speaker 4: She only ever shared a bit of small talk, never

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Speaker 4: really expanding on conversations. However, she was always pleasant. John

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Speaker 4: Winfield lives a few hundred meters away. His house is

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Speaker 4: quite distinct. There are always tools of his trade or

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Speaker 4: piles of gravel or bricks lying around, and he's often

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Speaker 4: out the front tinkering with things. John was spending a

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Speaker 4: fair bit of time doing work both inside and out

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Speaker 4: on Beverly's house. It's a double story red brick house

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Speaker 4: set back from the street, so there's no real backyard.

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Speaker 4: Most of the gardens are at the front. Beverly was

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Speaker 4: the only owner occupy higher of the house, a single

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Speaker 4: lady living.

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Speaker 2: On her own.

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Speaker 4: She was extremely reclusive and somewhat eccentric. I never noticed

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Speaker 4: her having visitors other than John Winfield or mowing contractors.

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Speaker 4: The house from day to day was extremely well kept,

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Speaker 4: but looked unused or somewhat devoid of human occupation. The

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Speaker 4: blinds and curtains were always closed, and you would never

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Speaker 4: know whether anyone was moving about inside the house, or

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Speaker 4: whether the TV was on, or see the lights being

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Speaker 4: switched on or off, or if anyone was at home

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Speaker 4: at all. She very rarely attended any neighborhood gatherings or parties.

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Speaker 4: I never saw her go off to community based activities

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Speaker 4: like exercise classes, or even take a walk or a

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Speaker 4: swim at the beach, which was only minutes away. Her

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Speaker 4: cars had personalized plates with BEEV and numbers. After of

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Speaker 4: more recent years, she had a bright red Honda Jazz

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Speaker 4: and a bright red sporty looking Hatchback. Her bright and

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Speaker 4: distinct vehicles were very much in contrast to her introverted

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Speaker 4: character and personality. Another distinctive feature about Bev is that

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Speaker 4: she wore the same style outfit every day nineties era

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Speaker 4: long dark tights, long knee high or ankle height dress, boots,

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Speaker 4: a tight t shirt or knitted jumper pulled over her

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Speaker 4: tights with a wide belt pulled tight around her waist.

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Speaker 4: From a distance, you might have thought she was much younger.

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Speaker 4: She had a mass of long, frizzy blonde, fair hair,

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Speaker 4: fair skin, and blue eyes quite distinct. Regardless of whether

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Speaker 4: she was going to work or tending to the gardens.

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Speaker 4: In the yard, winter or summer, Bev always had the

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Speaker 4: same style outfit on. I never saw her wearing a

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Speaker 4: summer dress or beach attire, or sandals or thongs or

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Speaker 4: work wear in the garden.

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Speaker 1: Alex said that Bev's garden was a bit special. It's

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Speaker 1: immaculate straight lines of hedging, the lack of weeds, array

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Speaker 1: of shrubs and flowers, and the neat and tidy layout.

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Speaker 4: In the afternoons and on weekends, Bev spent many hours

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Speaker 4: caring for the garden, still wearing that same outfit. She

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Speaker 4: did reveal that she had cancer and that the prognosis

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Speaker 4: was not great. Around this same time, Bev was doing

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Speaker 4: extensive renovations to the insides of her home, and John's

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Speaker 4: increasing presence at the premises became apparent. I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: for exactly how long Bev and John had been friends,

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Speaker 4: but he seemed to come and go regularly in more

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Speaker 4: recent years and be able to let himself into the house.

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Speaker 4: It seemed to me that John was Bev's only friend,

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Speaker 4: and they were obviously very close at the time she

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Speaker 4: was unwell.

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Speaker 2: Alex observed something else.

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Speaker 4: When I looked at the Bromwin Winfield case online. One

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Speaker 4: thing that immediately struck me like a lightning bolt was

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Speaker 4: the uncanny similarity of appearance between the photo of Bromwyn

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Speaker 4: to the likeness of Beverly, albeit that Bev was some

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Speaker 4: thirty five to forty years older. To this day, it

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Speaker 4: has had me wondering whether there was any connection between

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Speaker 4: Beverly and Bromwyn. Some people have said that John and

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Speaker 4: Bev were involved in a clandestine relationship for quite some time,

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Speaker 4: and John was visiting Bev secretly over many many years.

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Speaker 4: Regardless of all the rumormonger ing and hearsay, I feel

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Speaker 4: in my bones that something is just not sitting quite

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Speaker 4: right with regard to John Winfield's interest and involvement in

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Speaker 4: Beverly's life.

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Speaker 1: Alex posed a series of questions, some of which we

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Speaker 1: believe can be answered in this and upcoming episodes.

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Speaker 4: One Why would such a reclusive, socially withdrawn single woman

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Speaker 4: end up involved with the only man in town who

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Speaker 4: is a known murder suspect?

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Speaker 5: Two?

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Speaker 4: Was BEV involved with John around the time of Bromwin's disappearance?

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Speaker 4: Did Beverly and Bromwyn know each other? Four? Was BEV reclusive,

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Speaker 4: private and withdrawn because she simply knew what happened to Bromwin.

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Speaker 4: Five Is John Winfield an innocent man but a marked

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Speaker 4: man living with innuendo and rumor for most of his life,

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Speaker 4: hence keeping subsequent relationships very private.

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Speaker 1: Alex concluded that first letter to me with these words,

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Speaker 1: it would.

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Speaker 4: Bug me indefinitely if I did not share these thoughts

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Speaker 4: with someone who has a genuine intent to find the

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Speaker 4: truth behind this whole sad story.

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Speaker 1: After some back and forth by phone and email, Matthew

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Speaker 1: Condon drove the short distance from his home in northern New.

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Speaker 2: South Wales to meet Alex.

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Speaker 1: We decided that a face to face meeting would be best,

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Speaker 1: and at that time I was tied up in production

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Speaker 1: for Bromwin episodes. Matt and Alex spoke somewhere quiet, Neil

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Speaker 1: Lennox head. The conversation was recorded with Alex's consent. You'll

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Speaker 1: hear Matt's side of it, his real voice, but a

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Speaker 1: voice actor has done Alex's side.

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Speaker 3: So we're looking at Beverly Brooker.

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Speaker 4: When I look at the photo of Bromwin, I thought,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, almost a replica of Bromwyn. She was

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Speaker 4: a nice looking lady for her age. She had a

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Speaker 4: very good figure and she showed it off. But you

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Speaker 4: only ever saw her just tending the garden, and there

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Speaker 4: were some days where she'd just ignore you.

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Speaker 3: No sign of visitors apart from John Winfield.

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Speaker 4: The cancer Cancil Carr was coming around to pick her up,

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Speaker 4: obviously to take her in for treatment, and that was

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Speaker 4: quite unusual because no one used to go apart from John.

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Speaker 1: Bev Brooker had miso thelioma, a form of asbestosis. It

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Speaker 1: was possibly a legacy of her job for the New

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Speaker 1: South Wales government, working five decades in offices which, like

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Speaker 1: many back in those days, were built from materials comprising asbestos, miso.

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Speaker 2: Thelioma is a terminal illness.

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Speaker 3: There were changes happening to the house.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, we couldn't understand why is she doing all this?

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Speaker 3: He's clearly unwell.

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Speaker 4: Very unwell, and he's coming and going and they're doing

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Speaker 4: kitchens and bathrooms.

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Speaker 2: Beverly Brooker died in September twenty twenty two. She was

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Speaker 2: seventy one.

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Speaker 4: I never found out anything whether she had a funeral.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember Windfield or did you notice anyone coming

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Speaker 3: and going from the house after her death?

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Speaker 4: Oh, he still comes and goes all the time.

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Speaker 3: Is it as simple as he is maintaining the property.

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Speaker 4: No, he's still improving it. The house has been sitting

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Speaker 4: there for two years empty.

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Speaker 3: Could he be maintaining the house? She left it to

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Speaker 3: a brother or she left it to a relative and

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Speaker 3: he's just a mister handyman.

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Speaker 1: Alex reckoned that was plausible, but had to acknowledge it

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Speaker 1: was one of the unknowns. Others have also been speculating

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Speaker 1: during brief catch ups in the shops and down at

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Speaker 1: the beach. The story of Bev and John has run

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Speaker 1: around like wildfire, dozens of interactions between people and the

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Speaker 1: exchanges of information in a relatively small community. Matt was

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Speaker 1: still curious about the relationship between Beverly and John.

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Speaker 3: We don't know whether there were an item speak.

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Speaker 4: I guess intimacy is in different forms. If he was

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Speaker 4: the one who carried her out when she was blind

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Speaker 4: and then she had a stroke and couldn't.

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Speaker 3: Walk the last journey out of that house, correct, Yes,

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Speaker 3: and took it to Saint Vincent's. Whichever way you want

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Speaker 3: to define intimacy, it's about as intimate an act as

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Speaker 3: you can get, isn't it to carry someone to their death?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you're just the builder.

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Speaker 3: And you're just the builder and the handyman. That also

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Speaker 3: suggests she had no immediate family. This is an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: Did Beverly and bronwin know each other?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And would she have known anything about the missing Bronwin.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing I reckon she did. I reckon

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Speaker 4: He's told her that I'm John Winfield and people don't

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Speaker 4: like me because of this, and it's not true and

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Speaker 4: I didn't do it sort of thing. And he's treated

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Speaker 4: her well and done work for her.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the odds too obsessively reclusive human beings hooking

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Speaker 3: up in the same street. They're pretty long odds right?

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Speaker 3: Did he in fact make her more reclusive? Speculated to

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Speaker 3: Headley on the Weekend about this house. Throughout his three marriages,

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Speaker 3: the big issue was the property settlement and if he

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Speaker 3: was adamant to Bronwin, there was no way she was

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Speaker 3: getting the house. And here's a second property within walking

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Speaker 3: distance of his own.

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Speaker 4: He's a nice lady. I'll help her out.

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Speaker 1: Reading and hearing in the podcast about Bromwin's disappearance troubled

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Speaker 1: Alex greatly.

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Speaker 2: The more Alex learned about it.

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Speaker 1: From the podcast, the more curious Alex became about Bromin's fate.

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Speaker 4: Look at the Dowson case. They were standing over the police.

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Speaker 4: Of course he didn't do it.

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Speaker 3: He's a footballer, Yeah, big stars.

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Speaker 1: John's presence at Beverly's house in Skinner's Head before she

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Speaker 1: began came ill was obvious. It was a talking point

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Speaker 1: among residents, they're visitors and some of the tradees who

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Speaker 1: worked at the house. The talk didn't lessen after Beverly died.

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Speaker 1: It grew and it escalated again when the Bromin.

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Speaker 2: Podcast series started. Unlike some of the gossip.

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Speaker 1: And the occasionally unkind things which were said by some

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Speaker 1: about the two somewhat eccentric people in their early seventies.

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Speaker 2: John's physical work.

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Speaker 1: On the property Beverly owned was real and tangible.

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Speaker 4: I don't know whether she paid him. She's alone as

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Speaker 4: time goes on, figures it out in his head. I

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Speaker 4: think I might be onto something here. She has no friends.

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Speaker 4: When I wrote all this, I thought, they're not going

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Speaker 4: to believe what I'm saying. They're going to think it's

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Speaker 4: all hogwash. It's like a soapie, but it's.

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Speaker 3: Real, bloody hell. What's going on there.

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Speaker 4: That's what makes me think he now owns it, or

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Speaker 4: is in line to own it. It'll be interesting to

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Speaker 4: see what that will said.

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Speaker 3: I can't help but think of this fastidious man, knowing

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Speaker 3: in the back of his head that a few doors

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Speaker 3: up this project, there's immaculate project he's keeping, and maybe

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Speaker 3: to wake up and have a serf and think today

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Speaker 3: I'll go and make sure that everything's perfect. And still

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Speaker 3: it's empty.

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Speaker 4: It's empty. If he was really desperate for money, you'd

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Speaker 4: probably rent it.

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Speaker 3: Why keep it?

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Speaker 2: Why not sell it?

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Speaker 4: He doesn't want anyone in there messing it up.

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Speaker 3: But it's like this bizarre Museum artifact.

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Speaker 1: Matt Leaves to print out of Alex's first letter, the

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Speaker 1: one in which Alex questioned what John's motives were.

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Speaker 2: Was he the.

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Speaker 1: Ultimate good samaritan looking after another introvert because he cared

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Speaker 1: deeply for Bev, so much that he was there for

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Speaker 1: her during her darkest months, weeks and days as the

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Speaker 1: end neared, a selfless volunteer, a shoulder to cry on,

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Speaker 1: a pillar of support. Or was John always playing a

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Speaker 1: long game with a watchful eye on the spoils the

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Speaker 1: beachside house, the savings in Bev's bank accounts, new cars,

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Speaker 1: and other items of monetary value. Are those two contrasting

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Speaker 1: agendas mutually exclusive.

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Speaker 3: It's simply not normal that a suburb continues to function

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Speaker 3: day in, day out, twenty four to seven people come,

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Speaker 3: keep people of kids, families, dogs, all of this, and

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Speaker 3: sitting there, Christine is an empty.

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Speaker 4: House managed by a murder suspect. She did have some

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Speaker 4: relatives or brothers. I think.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to ask him all about his sister. What

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Speaker 2: was going on there?

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Speaker 5: Okay, sounds good?

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Jeff, it is hello Redley.

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Speaker 1: I've joined my colleague and friend, Madison Walsh to the

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Speaker 1: call Hello, Hello, Madison.

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Speaker 2: Maddie's in Sydney. She knows a little bit about this,

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Speaker 2: and I just thought it'd be great if she's on

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Speaker 2: the call too.

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Speaker 1: Maddie and I knew a little about it, becurse. Apart

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Speaker 1: from the letter sent by Alex, there have also been

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Speaker 1: emails and messages tipping me off about Bev, her estate,

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Speaker 1: and John. These nuggets of information from listeners who are

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Speaker 1: residents of Lennox Head and the nearby town of Balina

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Speaker 1: are a testament to the power of podcasting and the

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Speaker 1: listeners who want to help.

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Speaker 2: Jeff, Can you tell me a bit about your sister?

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Speaker 5: Right? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So my sister dev Beverly Brooker had two brothers, Jeff

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Speaker 1: and Paul Outerbridge.

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Speaker 5: From sixty not far from retirement.

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Speaker 2: Paul is almost there.

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Speaker 1: When I first got in touch with Jeff, he had

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Speaker 1: heard about the Bromwin podcast, but he was having trouble listening.

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Speaker 5: I don't even know how to text. Technology has left

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Speaker 5: me behind, mate.

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Speaker 1: But Jeff had already formed strong views about John Winfield.

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Speaker 1: Jeff had two sisters, Bev Van Margaret, and both are deceased.

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Speaker 1: Jeff's partner has died. Jeff's brother, Paul, lives in Ballina

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Speaker 1: with his wife Sarah.

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Speaker 5: He's the youngest of the four of us and he's

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Speaker 5: just turned sixty.

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Speaker 1: Along with Jeff, they have fond memories of Bev, but

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Speaker 1: not of John. I sat in my car in Brisbane

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Speaker 1: one evening and Maddie at her family home as Jeff

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Speaker 1: talked about Bev and the unusual turn of events before

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Speaker 1: and immediately after Bev died.

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Speaker 5: She worked her who working life at the one job

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Speaker 5: from the time she left school, which was the Roads

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Speaker 5: and Maritime Authority, and Bed worked in the office at

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Speaker 5: the depot in Ballina in the secretary or section, and

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Speaker 5: she was deadly involved with all her work colleagues. She

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Speaker 5: had a lot of good close friends go to her

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Speaker 5: work and she worked away up the ladder and she

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Speaker 5: was doing quite well. She had been married, and I

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Speaker 5: remained very good friends with her ex husband, and he

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Speaker 5: was a nice guy and they didn't have any children together.

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Speaker 5: But obviously things didn't work out and they went their

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Speaker 5: separate ways, which was fine. When she separated from her

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Speaker 5: husband and her home was sold, she moved down to

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Speaker 5: Ballina to be closer to work, and eventually ended up

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Speaker 5: buying her house over at Skinner's Head and kept in

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Speaker 5: contact with myself and my brother and my mother, and

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Speaker 5: we were all very close. She had a beautiful garden

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Speaker 5: at her house. She loved working in the garden.

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Speaker 2: Where did you and Bev grow up?

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Speaker 5: Well, we all grew up in Balner, born and raised

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Speaker 5: in Barner. Had a shop in Barner, a general store.

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Speaker 5: He also worked at the local council. Yeah, we spent

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Speaker 5: most of our time here in Barner.

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Speaker 2: Did you know John Winfield?

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Speaker 5: Never knew him, never knew anything about him, didn't know

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Speaker 5: anything about the story. His name was never brought up

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Speaker 5: in conversation at any of our gatherings, our family gatherings. Nothing.

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Speaker 5: It was just a bolt out of the blue.

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Speaker 2: And what was that bolt out of the blue?

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Speaker 1: Can you put your finger on the first time you

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Speaker 1: heard of John Winfield in connection with your sister Bev?

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Speaker 5: Okay, So that would have been the day that I

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Speaker 5: went to the solicitors to sign some paperwork for Bev

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Speaker 5: in regards to injury and guardian and power of attorney,

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Speaker 5: those sort of PaperWorks.

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Speaker 2: It was early May twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 5: And the solicitor brought up his name and said to me,

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Speaker 5: this is John, this is his name and he is

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Speaker 5: Bev's partner, which was a shock, total shock.

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Speaker 2: And why was that a total shop?

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Speaker 5: Because they've never mentioned anything about anybody in her life.

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Speaker 5: He was never at any of our functions.

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Speaker 2: Would Bev usually have shared information like that.

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Speaker 5: Might not have shared it with myself and my brother,

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Speaker 5: but I'm sure she would have brought up the conversation

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Speaker 5: with my partner at some stage, and or my brother's partner.

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Speaker 5: He would have mentioned something to them, or even my mother.

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Speaker 5: None of those knew anything about him.

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Speaker 1: The Ballona solicitor who told Jeff about the status of

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Speaker 1: John Winfield in Bev's life was acting for Bev. I

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Speaker 1: asked Jeff Outerbridge whether, apart from being an enduring guardian,

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Speaker 1: he had any active legal role as Bev's brother in

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Speaker 1: helping manage Bev's affairs at that time.

385
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Speaker 5: No. I think she knew things were starting to get

386
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Speaker 5: a bit desperate and she needed to have some people

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Speaker 5: that could take care of her affairs. I had the

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Speaker 5: doctor's report on you, and it says that she had

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Speaker 5: metastatic me so barly omer. It started out as a

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Speaker 5: lung cancer and then it spread to her brain. I

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Speaker 5: knew she was ill because when she was at my

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Speaker 5: partner's funeral, I could tell she was very very ill.

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Speaker 5: She organized with the solicitor to get all that paperwork

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Speaker 5: up to date and sign off on so if anything happens,

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Speaker 5: people could make decisions for her. But of course the

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Speaker 5: main person that was going to be making any decisions

397
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Speaker 5: was going to be John Enduring.

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Speaker 6: Guardianship is only any good up until the point of the.

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Speaker 5: Person passes away. Since the person passes away, that is

400
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Speaker 5: all then null and void. I can't touch anything to

401
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 5: do with my sister's estate on sch it passes away.

402
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 5: Only the executor of the will can then handle the situation,

403
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 5: and he was that as well.

404
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: Jeff is talking about John Winfield in during.

405
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Speaker 1: Guardian and executor of Beverly Brooker's will. It was at

406
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Speaker 1: that point in the solicitor's offices that Jeff first appreciated what.

407
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Speaker 2: John was doing. I'll clarify the timing.

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Speaker 1: In early May twenty twenty two, Bev's brother, Jeff Outerbridge,

409
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Speaker 1: went to see Bev's solicitor. Bev's health was very poor.

410
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: Bev died in September twenty twenty two. Something else happened

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Speaker 1: in that year and.

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Speaker 5: The will was changed in March twenty third of March

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty two.

414
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Speaker 1: Beverly's will in March twenty twenty two was changed how.

415
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: From the previous beneficiary.

416
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Speaker 2: The previous will was unremarkable.

417
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Speaker 5: I've got that will here with me as well, and

418
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 5: it was dated the seventh of June twenty eleven. It

419
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 5: was with a different solicitor. Of course. The state in

420
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 5: total was left to the one person, which was my

421
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 5: cousin and Bev's cousin, and she was the sole beneficiary

422
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 5: of Bev's a Stoke.

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Speaker 1: In twenty eleven. Bev's will then provided that her cousin

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Speaker 1: in Victoria would inherit all of Bev's estate.

425
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Speaker 2: Was there a.

426
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Speaker 1: Special connection between your cousin, Bev's cousin and Bev.

427
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Speaker 5: She was very close to my sister. They are about

428
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 5: the same sort of age group. They used to stay

429
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Speaker 5: in close contact.

430
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Speaker 7: My cousin would bring Bev on birthdays and Keith Bev

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Speaker 7: up to date on my auntie, who was very ill.

432
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 7: Cousins used to come up from Sydney every year and

433
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 7: holiday him with us, and we're all very close.

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Speaker 1: What was your view of your cousin inheriting your sister's estate.

435
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 5: Well, it didn't worry me, really, she was a close

436
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 5: cousin and that was fine. If that's what my sister

437
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 5: wanted to do, that was okay by me.

438
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: She was family for eleven years.

439
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: This provision in the will held until Bev's health was

440
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: really dire. In early twenty twenty two, and six months

441
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: before she died, Bev's will was altered in a most

442
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: profound and divisive way.

443
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: You can probably guess where this is going.

444
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 5: But this other guy, he's a total blowing We never

445
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 5: met him and didn't know anything about him, and that

446
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 5: was a real surprise and shot I think that he

447
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 5: would inherit everything that my sister owned to Firshley.

448
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: Did this listener tell you at that meeting that is

449
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: what would happen?

450
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 5: No, he just said John's name was on the paperwork

451
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 5: and he was Thev's partner.

452
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: When did you realize for the first time that John

453
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: would actually inherit your sister's estate.

454
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 5: After my sister's general and it was probably a week later,

455
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 5: I went back down to the same solicitors and I

456
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 5: just said, look, I'm here to collect a copy of

457
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 5: my sister's will so I can see what's happening with

458
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 5: their estate, and that was when I was refused any

459
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 5: copy of any will. So I was told that because

460
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 5: my name was not mentioned in the will, I was

461
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 5: not allowed to have a copy. That listener was very

462
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 5: uncoperative and even wouldn't let me have copies of my

463
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: sister's will.

464
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: Jeff explained that when the solicitor refused to give him copies,

465
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: Jeff went to see another solicitor who.

466
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 5: Killed in the taperwork for me to take down, hand

467
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 5: it over the counter and say that I am demanding

468
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 5: copies of my sister wills, present, past, and any other

469
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 5: paperwork related to my sister. And within five minutes I

470
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 5: had all that paperwork in my hand. So I had

471
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 5: to get a solicitor to obtain those copies of those wills.

472
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 5: And it was then that I realized, after I read

473
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 5: the will, that that's how it all went.

474
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Were you keeping your brother informed as well? And your

475
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: sister in law and other members of the family.

476
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 5: He has kept them up to date and informed, and

477
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 5: my brother really had a mental breakdown over this. He

478
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 5: can't really talk very clearly about it at any time

479
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 5: because he's absolutely devastated and guarded about the whole thing.

480
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 5: He feels as though this guy has just taken advantage

481
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 5: of my sister, and maybe it's gone in the wrong direction.

482
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 5: He would rather the cousin inherit everything that belonged to

483
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 5: my sister, but not this stranger, this stranger who was

484
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 5: just doing work on the property, just doing maintenance and rebuilding.

485
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: Can you describe the house that your sister lived in, jet.

486
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 5: I really knew, two story town house with ocean of

487
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 5: years looking out over flat rock, beautiful, big verandas up

488
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: the top and down the bottom facing the ocean, big

489
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 5: double garage around the back where you used to enter

490
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 5: in from the little cul de stack. It was probably

491
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 5: three or four bedrooms. It was quite a good size.

492
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 5: She started renovating work on it over a period of

493
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 5: a couple of years, and then this guy was doing

494
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 5: work for her, fixing up branders, balconies, herails, and then

495
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 5: eventually she started on the inside and the downstairs first

496
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 5: and bathroom, toilet, laundry downstairs, and then she would live

497
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 5: downstairs while the upstairs was being renovated. You kitchen, your bathroom, toilet,

498
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 5: all new flooring, all new kitchen appliances, kitchen cabinets, floating timber, floors,

499
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 5: all new furniture, and actually, by the time my sister

500
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 5: passed away and there was still furniture being delivered to

501
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 5: the house that she didn't even get to benefit for using.

502
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Who was overseeing all of the renovation work? Who was

503
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: doing it?

504
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 5: That was John was organizing all the trades and he

505
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 5: was calling the people in. I think my sister was

506
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 5: kicking the colors and the stones and the tiles, and

507
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 5: every week the appliances.

508
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: Do you know whether your sister was funding his employment

509
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: as well as all the materials and furniture costs and

510
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: so on.

511
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 5: I don't think you'd be doing it for free. And

512
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 5: she was retired and she was well off with a

513
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 5: super I'm sure he lived at his house and lived

514
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: at her house, because he told me in the little

515
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 5: diary that he kept on Bev's health and condition that

516
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 5: a couple of times he found it when he came

517
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 5: up to the house of the morning to check and

518
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: make sure that everything was in order, that the tradesmen

519
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 5: were arriving and that they could come in and do

520
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 5: their work. That was when he found Bev, on two

521
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 5: separate occasions, had fallen on the floor and she was

522
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 5: unconscious and he had to get an ebleance to her.

523
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 5: That tells me that he was not living there with her.

524
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: Did she say anything to you that struck you as

525
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: unusual during the work.

526
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 5: By the trades, No, not really, only the fact that

527
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 5: she was cleaning the house from top to bottom every

528
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 5: day to keep the house clean and tidy. And I

529
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 5: couldn't understand why. I said to her, why are you

530
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 5: doing that, bev, when the trades are going to be

531
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 5: back again very next day and making another mess. Why

532
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 5: have you got to kick the house so clean? And

533
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 5: she just said that that's the way it is, That's

534
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 5: what she does. She cleans everything from top to bottom.

535
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 5: I see now that it was a stipulation of Jonathan Wine,

536
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 5: but that's how he liked to have done. He was

537
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: a bit of a clean freak. She was a need

538
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 5: and clean and tidy person. But I mean to say,

539
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 5: it seems strange to me that she'd have to clean

540
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 5: the house from top to bottom every day after the

541
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 5: tradees had been in there. That was just crazy to me.

542
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: Every brain cancer will have a different impact on the sufferer.

543
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: But have you questioned whether or not your sister was

544
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: of sound mind from her advanced cancer? To be able

545
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: to legally change her will so dramatically.

546
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 5: I knew something was wrong for quite a while, and

547
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 5: I could see her health going downhill, and she was

548
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 5: making some really strange decisions. I'd even actually accused her

549
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 5: about COVID. Did she have COVID? Was she getting COVID?

550
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 5: She had COVID? And she kept on denying everything to me.

551
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 5: She was very strange. In the last probably twelve months

552
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 5: of her life, she became more and more reclusive.

553
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 2: How often do you reckon? You were seeing her.

554
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 5: Ja every second week, ring her every five days, and

555
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 5: keep in contact with her on the phone. I'd keep

556
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 5: her updated all the time on the health of my partner.

557
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 5: She was close to my partner and they got along

558
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 5: well together. And of course she'd come down to the

559
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 5: hospital every second week and visit. But I could see

560
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 5: strange things happening with her health. And I said to her,

561
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 5: why are you changing all these things in new townhouse?

562
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 5: The townhouse was not that old and it was in

563
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 5: good condition, and why would you want to put in

564
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 5: all these new applients. Has seemed on a mission to

565
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: spend as much money as she.

566
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: Could on a property that John would inherit exactly yes.

567
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 5: And also her cars. She had a nice Honda that

568
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 5: she'd bought brand new. She decided to sell that real

569
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 5: cheap to a friend that John had organized the sale,

570
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 5: and she bought a brand new Honder from Lismore and

571
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 5: she no sooner had that, and she went and bought

572
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 5: a second one. And I couldn't understand why she would

573
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 5: buy a second one. She didn't need a second car.

574
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 5: She had a double garage and she had room to

575
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 5: park it. But I can't understand why she had two

576
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 5: brand new Hondas. Obviously John would benefit by them. What

577
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 5: color are they? They're red in color orangine red.

578
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: Through all of those contacts she were having with your sister,

579
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: calling her every five days and seeing her regularly, how

580
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: many times did she talk about John Winfield?

581
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 5: Never mentioned, never brought up in conversation.

582
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 6: My mum was quite early and she had to be

583
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 6: moved out of her home and put into an age

584
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 6: care facility at Oulstonville, And we used to go up

585
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 6: there every week and visit the mum in the age

586
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 6: care facility until Mom passed away, And the conversation was.

587
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 5: Never brought up with my mom. My mom knew nothing

588
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 5: about him. I knew nothing about him, and my brother

589
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 5: knew nothing about him. Nothing was ever brought up except

590
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 5: the conversation about this guy who was doing work on

591
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 5: the house.

592
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: Was there anything in what she said that made you think, oh,

593
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: he might be a bit more involved in her life

594
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: than just a builder.

595
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 5: Nothing other than the fact that he was doing some

596
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 5: maintenance work on the house and some renovating work. John

597
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 5: did tell me on the day that he came here

598
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 5: to my house, and he had his little diary with

599
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 5: him that he had met a number of years ago

600
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 5: when she was out in the garden working in her garden.

601
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: He introduced himself to bed and said that he is

602
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 5: a builder, does maintenance work, and she must have been

603
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: out with his work, and that's when he eventually did

604
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 5: more and more, and that he got his foot in

605
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 5: the door and started renovating the whole interior. But there

606
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 5: was never any mention of him being in any sort

607
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 5: of relationship. It was just a handy man that mid

608
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 5: down the road.

609
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: What is your view of John's conduct and what's happened.

610
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 5: Well, my opinion is that this guy, he flies under

611
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 5: the radar. He cannot be trusted. He will not respond

612
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 5: to any of my phone calls. His very very secret

613
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 5: is and I really don't trust him. He's a control

614
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 5: free an absolutely control three. The way he conducted the funeral.

615
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: How was the funeral conducted? What happened?

616
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 5: Me and my brother asked, can we help arrange things

617
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 5: with the funeral? And he said, no, there's no need.

618
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 5: Everything sorted out. He's got it all under control. And

619
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 5: I said, well, can we help with the flowers? Can

620
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: we do the flower No, no need to touch the flowers.

621
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 5: He had only seven people at the funeral. No, and

622
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 5: was allowed to come to the funeral. A couple of

623
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 5: the people that did attend the funeral he didn't want

624
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 5: them there. He was very upset about them being there.

625
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 5: He reckons it was all my sisters requests that it

626
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 5: was kept private, which is very strange because Beverley wasn't

627
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 5: like that. She had a lot of close friends and

628
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 5: work colleagues, and she would have been happy to know

629
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 5: that they were there at his service. He took control

630
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 5: of everything. There was a slide show of my sister's life,

631
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 5: and he did not have one photo of himself in

632
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 5: that slide shaft.

633
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 2: Did he deliver a eulogy or anything?

634
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 5: There no No, he didn't get up and stand up

635
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 5: and talk.

636
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: Jeff told me that he had reservations about John Winfield

637
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: the first time they met. On that occasion, John kept

638
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: referring to the small diary which he carried.

639
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: He relied on.

640
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: It to cite dates and events, and he read from

641
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: the diary, and he said that they were relevant to

642
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: Bev's condition. The second meeting that Jeff had with John

643
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: was at the private hospital in Lismore called Saint Vincent's,

644
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: and that was when Bev was just days from death.

645
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: The third time was when John came to Jeff's workplace

646
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: in September twenty twenty two to tell him that his

647
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: sister had passed away.

648
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 5: One, two, three, And then at the funeral. Four times

649
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: I'm meet him four times.

650
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 2: What about contacts since the funeral?

651
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 5: No contact? I'll find him a couple of times. He

652
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 5: won't return my calls of ringing and asking for a

653
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 5: phone number of my cousin down in Victoria, and he

654
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 5: hasn't responded to that phone call. I have not heard

655
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 5: from him since the d of the funeral.

656
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: Is this the cousin who would have been the sole

657
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: beneficiary if the will hadn't been changed.

658
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 5: Yes, that's the cousin. Yeah. I asked for her phone

659
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 5: number because be have had it in her phone and

660
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 5: I kept regular contact.

661
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: But that cousin didn't come to the funeral.

662
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 5: No, no, because I'd say John didn't even make contact

663
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 5: with her.

664
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: I think you said there were only seven people there.

665
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 5: It was John and a young lady that was within him.

666
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 5: He said that it was his daughter. There was myself,

667
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 5: There was my brother, my brother's wife, my nephew from

668
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 5: the Old Coast, Luke, and there was an elderly couple

669
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 5: from the Olstonville church. Bev used to be a member

670
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 5: of the Oustonville Church, so that would have been eleven

671
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 5: or eight people.

672
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: Jeff told me that John was most unhappy that Luke

673
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: turned up at his auntie Bev's funeral.

674
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: The elderly couple from the Austinville Church were not welcomed

675
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: by John either.

676
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: We didn't run it by John to get permission that

677
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 5: they could attend. They turned up on the day and

678
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 5: it was a bit of a shock to John because

679
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 5: he didn't know they were going to be there, so

680
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 5: he wasn't happy.

681
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: Did you feel that you could have put your foot

682
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: down and said, look, this is our sister, and we'll

683
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: let her friends and other relations know and will farewell

684
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: her and the way well.

685
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 5: He was telling us that it was Bev's, that it

686
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 5: was all done on the quiet, so he said, there's

687
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 5: nothing here to organize. John said, I will make announcements

688
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 5: to people who need to know what's happened to Bev.

689
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: But any announcements were to be authorized by John and

690
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: come from John, and only after the funeral. John controlled

691
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: the messaging, preventing even a standard funeral notice, which would

692
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: have alerted people to the fact that Bev had died.

693
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 5: We didn't want to stir up any trouble and didn't

694
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 5: know what he was like at that stage. Yed that

695
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 5: we didn't know what we're getting ourselves into. But I thought,

696
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 5: this is all very strange. I don't think Devine would

697
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 5: have conducted itself like this.

698
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 2: What was John's daughter doing at the funeral.

699
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 5: We were sitting in a row that had a slight

700
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 5: curve in it and were facing the casket, and my

701
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 5: brother and system law at the far end, and they

702
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 5: could see across at what John and the daughter were doing,

703
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 5: writing down notes on a pad and keeping notes, and

704
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 5: she would look up and observe us and then go

705
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 5: back to writing on the notepad. And she was obviously

706
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 5: observing our reactions and emotions. And I said, that's very strange.

707
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 5: No one does that sort of thing at a funeral,

708
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 5: so why would they do that. I've got a few

709
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 5: notes here that Paul gave me after Bev's funeral. He's

710
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 5: got written down here. There was no interaction with our

711
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 5: family at any time from John. My gut feeling and

712
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 5: what I have seen tells me that he saw a

713
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 5: moment and stretched it out to an opportunity to gain

714
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 5: Bev's confidence during her mental sickness, and took every advantage

715
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 5: he could. There was no pictures of him and Bev

716
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 5: together in the picture show because there was no relationship.

717
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 5: His daughter, which I saw, was taking notes, leaning forward

718
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 5: and looking at us all and writing some more notes down.

719
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: You were going to hear from Bev's younger brother, Paul

720
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: Outerbridge in the next episode, and from Paul's wife Sarah

721
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: here they are very briefly. Have you seen John since

722
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: the funeral?

723
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 2: No? No, why would I?

724
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 3: I can't say.

725
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 8: His name, and then I just google it. I just

726
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 8: put in John Wingfield and I've come from when Wreenfield.

727
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 8: The likeness blew.

728
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 5: Me away, and then you got to grossimons. Through the documents.

729
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: Paul and Sarah will shed more light too on what

730
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: they saw at Bev's unusually low key service.

731
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 2: When did you first learn that he's an alleged killer?

732
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 5: After the funeral, my sister in law said, do you

733
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 5: know who this guy is? Have you researched him? Have

734
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 5: you looked him up on the internet? I said no,

735
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 5: I don't know. I never heard anything before. And that's

736
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 5: when she showed me on her laptop the story of

737
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 5: Jonathan Minfield and I was stunned. I thought, like, how

738
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 5: can this be true? My sister was a very clever

739
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 5: lady and very witty, and I said, well, what was

740
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 5: BEV doing mixed up with this guy? Didn't she know

741
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 5: who he was and what he was all about? And

742
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 5: I'm sure Bev would have known the story of Jonathan Winshield.

743
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 5: And I can't understand why she ended up mixed up

744
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 5: or had anything to do with it. She didn't live

745
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 5: under a rock. She was a very intelligent woman up

746
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 5: until the last little bit of a life when she

747
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 5: obviously was affected by the cancer. I don't know why

748
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 5: she put so much trust in this guy and let

749
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: him do what he wanted to do. I don't know

750
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 5: how she even had him in her house. And then

751
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 5: after I started doing some research and found out the

752
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 5: true story, it's just noble from there.

753
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: Did you consider challenging what had happened, challenging the world?

754
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 5: I did. I went back to the solicitor and I said,

755
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 5: what can we do? Obviously my sister was not of

756
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 5: sound mind when she did this. We had a bit

757
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 5: of a talk about it, and it was going to

758
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 5: be financially impossible for me to pursue it. So I thought, well,

759
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 5: I don't like the idea of this guy taking everything

760
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 5: that my sister had. I don't begrudge my cousin receiving

761
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 5: the small amount that she is receiving, but I don't

762
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 5: like the idea of this guy getting the rest.

763
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: And what do you understand the value of your sister's

764
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: estate was.

765
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 5: It would probably worth a couple of million dollars at

766
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: least the house and the cars and the super anyway,

767
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 5: and it would total quite a bit of money. My

768
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 5: cousin is only receiving a small amount of that, and

769
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 5: Jonathan Winfield is the beneficiary of the rest.

770
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: Jeff picked up a copy of Bev's will. He read

771
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: the provision relating to their cousin.

772
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 5: I give the son of two hundred thousand dollars and

773
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 5: can I mention her name?

774
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: Jeff read out the cousin's full name. I'm not repeating

775
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: it here for privacy reasons.

776
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 5: I give the balance of my estate to Jonathan Winfield.

777
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 5: That's what the will says here. I appoint Jonathan Winfield

778
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 5: as executor and trustee. I just can't understand why my

779
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 5: sister would do that. My brother's desire was to pursue it,

780
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 5: take it to court and contest the will. And I

781
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 5: said to my brother, look, I've been down that track.

782
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 5: It's not doable. I can tell you you're wasting your time.

783
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 5: And he wouldn't leave me, So he went and got

784
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 5: his own counsel, and he rang around and were advised

785
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 5: not to go down that path. Pointe's health have eaually

786
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 5: got the better of him. Many almost had a breakdown

787
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 5: over it all, and he gave up.

788
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: It is impossible to know what really goes on in

789
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: family relationships that you are not yourself involved in, why

790
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: conflicts arise, and how siblings manage the fallout are such

791
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: subjective questions. In the Bromwin series, the tensions between family members,

792
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: including Andy Reid, his sister Kim Marshall, and their cousin

793
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: Megan Reid, have been all too obvious at times. Siblings

794
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: squabbles are as predictable as death and taxes. Beverly is

795
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: not around to tell us why Jeff and Paul were

796
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: not in.

797
00:48:52,680 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: Either of her wills. You sound angry, but measured.

798
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 5: Angry about the fact that this stranger, by class him

799
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 5: as a stranger, has walked in and taken everything. My

800
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 5: brother was affected by the floods here in Belnah, and

801
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 5: he had flood damage, and he was doing it tough

802
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 5: at the time. And I said to him at the time,

803
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 5: I said, look, mate, if your sister is kind enough

804
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 5: to leave you some money in her estate, you'll be

805
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 5: able to get yourself back on your feet. He was guarded,

806
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 5: he couldn't do repairs to his fence, he had no

807
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 5: car to get to work, and he was actually seeing

808
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 5: a counselor at the time, and he got worse and

809
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 5: worse as time went on. About this. He still finds

810
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 5: it hard to talk about today.

811
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: And what about your sister in law.

812
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 5: They were close friends. I think she's very disappointed with

813
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 5: Bev this whole thing with Jonathan instincts.

814
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: Actually, Maddie, you still there. I'm sorry in talking NonStop.

815
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 9: I just had a question what ultimately led to theav

816
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 9: passing away?

817
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 10: The results of the key answer going to her brain.

818
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 10: She passed away in Saint Vincent's hospital in Isbel and

819
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 10: that's why I saw her, and she could only just

820
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 10: see out of her eyes.

821
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 5: Next day she couldn't see out of her eyes. And

822
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 5: then on the third day I got noticed to say

823
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 5: that she passed only that morning. Do you know how

824
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 5: long FAV was six four before John and to her life?

825
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 5: I don't know when't exactly. She was diagnosed with the cancer.

826
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 9: With this little diary that John cat, she said he

827
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 9: wrote about her condition and all the rest of it

828
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 9: was that its main purpose.

829
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 5: No, I thought it was a bit strainingue that he

830
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 5: had everyone written down. He rang me out of the

831
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 5: blue and introduced himself to me and said, look, I've

832
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 5: got some information about your sister. She's in the hospital

833
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 5: at the moment and she's very seriously or can I

834
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 5: come around your house and have it talk to you

835
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 5: about your sister's health. And I said, yeah, this by

836
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 5: all means come around. I want to know what's going on.

837
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 5: Which hospital is she in. So he came around within

838
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 5: an hour and we sat down and he had this

839
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 5: diary with him, and he's telling me all the different

840
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 5: things that have happened. I said, John, look that's not important.

841
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 5: I said, I wanted to go and see my sister.

842
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 5: Where is she? And he said no, no, no, you

843
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 5: can't do that. You can't go there now. I'll make

844
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,479
Speaker 5: arrangements for you to visit her tomorrow. She's in Saint

845
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 5: Vincent's in Lismore. And I said, my brother's going to

846
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 5: have to come to her. My brother's going to want

847
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 5: to see it. And he said, no, your brother's excluded.

848
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 5: He can't come and visit with your sister. We're doing

849
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 5: this one person at a time, and he took control

850
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 5: of the whole situation. But he started off telling me

851
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 5: her life story in this diary, and I said, John,

852
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 5: I don't need to know the life story. I just

853
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 5: want to know what's going on, what's wrong with her,

854
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 5: and where is she every time she had a fall,

855
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 5: or every time she was taken to hospital, or every

856
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 5: time she saw the specialist and every treatment that she had,

857
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 5: and when the cancer care nurses come to visit the house.

858
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 5: He had everything written down, the dates and the times

859
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 5: and everything. It seemed very strange to me that someone

860
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 5: would keep a diary like that on somebody else's health.

861
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 5: And he said, I'll meet you up at the hospital tomorrow,

862
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 5: and he was telling me this is how it's going

863
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 5: to be, and this is when you can come up

864
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 5: there and I'll be there to meet you and I'll

865
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 5: take you in. And he gave me a time, and

866
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 5: I went up there and saw my sister. Yeah, really

867
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 5: strange considering it's your sister and my brother could not know.

868
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 5: You cannot tell your brother, and I had to wait

869
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 5: until Bevan passed away. And then I went out and

870
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 5: saw my brother and I break down because I said, mate,

871
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but I wasn't allowed to tell you about

872
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 5: Bev's health and are passing. I had to keep it

873
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 5: a secret, apparently. And this guy said it was Bev's wish,

874
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 5: but it was more I think John's wish than anything else.

875
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 5: My brother was devastated, he was gutted. He didn't get

876
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 5: to see his sister, he didn't get to say goodbye.

877
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 9: So when you saw Bev in hospital, was John david

878
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 9: you the entire time or did he let you have

879
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 9: alone time with her?

880
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 5: Oh? No, he was there in the entire time both occasions.

881
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 3: I went up there.

882
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 5: On the last night, he slept there in a cot.

883
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 5: The nurses made up the cot poin beside Ben's bed.

884
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: The following morning, John left the hospital to drive home

885
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: and shower and change into fresh clothes, And that was.

886
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:47,439
Speaker 5: When burd passed away.

887
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: While he was at home, I asked Jeff whether he

888
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: had regrets about having yielded to John Winfield, a man

889
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: whom nobody in Bev's family knew about until he announced himself.

890
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 5: I wish I had known more about him at the

891
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 5: time than I could have included my brother in the visits.

892
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 5: We could have included ourselves and much more in the

893
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 5: funeral service. It's just remarkable, And my sister wasn't like that.

894
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 5: Even when my mom passed away and there was a

895
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 5: service held for my mum, she brought along all her

896
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 5: work colleagues with her as back up and helped for

897
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 5: her at my mum's service. But there was stay. John.

898
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 1: Well, it's surprising that your sister having worked in Ballina

899
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: in the same office for much of her life, and

900
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: none of her friends or colleagues are able to pay

901
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: their respects.

902
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: They're all excluded.

903
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, all that was his doing, I'm sure of it.

904
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 5: The plan was to keep it all very low key,

905
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 5: hush hush floy, under the radar, and it don't let

906
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 5: anybody know about him because he had plans. He had

907
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 5: plans to step in and to take my sister's estate

908
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 5: and tol Me Headley. Has anyone ever looked into miss

909
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 5: Guy's finances?

910
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: Well, yes and no.

911
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 1: He sold that house at Sandstone Crescent about one year

912
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: after the police began a reinvestigation of what had happened

913
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: to Broman. I don't know why he sold in nineteen

914
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: ninety nine, but it has been suggested that one good

915
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: reason for him to sell.

916
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: Then would have been him knowing that.

917
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: The detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor was doing a lot of

918
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: interviewing around the town and in Sydney and piecing together

919
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: John's movements and the timeline and everything.

920
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 5: He's got all this money coming to him from my sister,

921
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 5: but has he got money from other women?

922
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: Maddie and I had a separate call immediately after we

923
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: ended the conversation with Jeff Outerbridge, Maddie, your reaction.

924
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 3: Actually, I'm really angry.

925
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 9: I'm seething.

926
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: I would have been absolutely still white hot angry if

927
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: it had been my sister and this had happened.

928
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 9: Me too, especially now that he knows more. Now that

929
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 9: he knows a lot more about John's past and what's

930
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 9: happened previously.

931
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: What's with the diary also carried by the woman who

932
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: was introduced to the family as John's daughter, taking notes

933
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: on what people were saying and how they were reacting

934
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: at the funeral.

935
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 9: It's so fucking strange. Note taking out the funeral is

936
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 9: the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.

937
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 1: And John, who was just the maintenance guy and then

938
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: the builder and then called himself a partner, but she

939
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: never spoke of him like it's a two million dollar hole.

940
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 9: I'm pretty sure the solicitor gives people advice when they're

941
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 9: change their wills. They will tell you, oh, this is

942
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 9: not a good idea, or are you sure about this?

943
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 9: And you have to be kind of with it to

944
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 9: make decisions that drastic.

945
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: You actually sound more angry over this than you have

946
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: over just about anything.

947
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: We've discussed in this podcast.

948
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, because he's had thirty one years to be free

949
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 9: and yet he still one ups everyone. There is something

950
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 9: seriously wrong.

951
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as

952
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information

953
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me

954
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing at the Australian dot com dot au.

955
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 2: You can read more.

956
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: About this case and see a range of photographs and

957
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: other artwork at the website Bromwyn podcast dot com. Our

958
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: subscribers and registered users here episodes first. The production and

959
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget,

960
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez, Sean Callen

961
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: and Matthew Condon and David Murray, with assistance from Isaac Iron's.

962
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio

963
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been

964
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We

965
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: can only do this kind of journalism with the support

966
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman

967
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, apps, timelines and

968
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's Pet,

969
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy,

970
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver. Go to the Australian dot com

971
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: dot au and subscribe.