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Speaker 1: Oh good, your bloody champions. I hope you're great. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to another installing the show, Doctor Hannah Corral, who's been

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Speaker 1: on about a thousand times. You love her, We love her.

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Speaker 1: She comes at a great rate, and I think that's important.

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Speaker 1: Free what no, as if we don't pay you, don't

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Speaker 1: don't misrepresent me.

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Speaker 2: Pay me in smiles. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Other than that, she's also super smarty pants. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: Having said that, Doc, it has been a little while.

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Speaker 1: It's been a few months.

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Speaker 2: It's been a long time between drinks, hasn't it. I

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Speaker 2: think what did we do last your brain in a nutshell?

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Speaker 2: It was a little while ago.

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Speaker 1: Now I think was the last thing that we did,

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Speaker 1: like ten episodes in a row, ten short.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the ten the ten EPs nutshells? That was?

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Speaker 1: Can you believe that was? Well that was five and

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Speaker 1: a half months ago. Because we're now nearly half amazing.

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Speaker 2: It goes so fast. I was thinking about you just

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Speaker 2: the other day and I was wondering, how's your PhD going,

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Speaker 2: how's your mom? How's her eye? How's your eye? You know,

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Speaker 2: how's it all? How's it all been since I heard

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Speaker 2: from you?

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Speaker 1: As thanks for asking? Nobody fucking asks let's make it

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Speaker 1: all about me. Good. Let's yeah, let's talk about me,

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Speaker 1: all right. Let's start with my eye. Had an operation

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Speaker 1: on my eye at worked. I was going no good

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Speaker 1: with the old eyes. But thankfully because the old iologists

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Speaker 1: said you're going to be blind by Christmas, which that was.

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Speaker 1: That was that was mildly terrifying. So we dealt without. Mum,

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Speaker 1: Mum's good. The old man, Dad, he's he's if you

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Speaker 1: know my dad and you're listening to this, don't tell

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Speaker 1: him I said any of this. He's he's not the

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Speaker 1: most mobile these days. He's walking.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Is this you kind of exercise, you work out, and

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Speaker 1: you're a smarty pant. So you understand there's this kind

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Speaker 1: of almost the chicken and the egg kind of thing

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Speaker 1: going on with older and I mean, you know people

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Speaker 1: in their eighties and seventies, some of them when they

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Speaker 1: start to get a bit wobbly, when balance and coordination

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Speaker 1: and motor skills deteriorate significantly. So there's this very typical approach,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot of people go, oh, their balances

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Speaker 1: really dropped and their motor skills and so let's get

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Speaker 1: them to do balancy stuff. So we'll improve their balance.

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Speaker 1: And while that kind of makes sense, there's also this

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Speaker 1: other component, and that is the strength stuff. So you

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Speaker 1: would know this, but there's a fancy name for people

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Speaker 1: losing muscle as they get older. It's called sycopenia. And basically,

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about sycopenia, generally, we're talking about relating

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Speaker 1: to old people. Older people, and I mean really anywhere

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Speaker 1: from fifties onwards, but tends to be more seventies eighties,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of older people lose a lot

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Speaker 1: of muscle mass. And a lot of people think, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's just what happens when you're seventy or eighty, and

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Speaker 1: it's actually not that. It's that's maybe ten to twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of it, but it's about eighty to ninety percent

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Speaker 1: because people just stop doing stuff.

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Speaker 2: They become homebodies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that, yeah, my dad would spend like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, probably twenty three hours a

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Speaker 1: day sitting or lying a day. Well, you think you're

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Speaker 1: eight hours a day you're asleep, Like, how many hours

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Speaker 1: a day do you spend? Like you come at work,

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Speaker 1: you go to work sitting, You get at home, you

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Speaker 1: sit on a couch, you sit at your desk, you

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Speaker 1: sit at your kitchen table. You know, we think that

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Speaker 1: we spend half an hour a day, half a day

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Speaker 1: on our feet. We actually don't. No true huge amount

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Speaker 1: of Australia, Australians who spend twenty three hours a day

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Speaker 1: either on their back or on their ass. Shut you

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Speaker 1: think about it. I mean, I'm I'm the least lazy

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Speaker 1: person I know. But when I'm working, for the most part,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting. I go for a walk every day, I

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Speaker 1: work out every day.

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Speaker 2: And I'm you go for a crazy run, yeah, or

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Speaker 2: something like a quick twenty minute run. You're crazy, man.

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Speaker 2: But that's so interesting because my father and if you're listening, Dad,

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Speaker 2: no shade, no offense. And if you know my dad, like,

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Speaker 2: don't tell him I said this, but my dad is like,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like your dad's not moving enough. My dad's

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Speaker 2: doing the opposite and he's moving too much. And my

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Speaker 2: dad's in his sixties and he has an addiction to ladders, Craig,

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Speaker 2: so he loves and bargains, so you know, the combination

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Speaker 2: of everything in Camera. I grew up in Camera. So

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Speaker 2: there's a place called the Green Shed and like shout

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Speaker 2: out to Camberan's. There's a place called the Green Shed

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Speaker 2: and it's a tip right, and you can give away

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Speaker 2: stuff that's too good to be thrown away, and they'll

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Speaker 2: sell it for cheaps like a second hand store, but

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Speaker 2: at the tip. And so Dad has taken to collecting ladders.

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Speaker 2: So he must have about like twelve to fifteen ladders,

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Speaker 2: but he so none of them are very good because

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Speaker 2: they're all from the tip right, so he has been

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Speaker 2: putting them. My father is like Army, Navy, Air Force,

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Speaker 2: which is probably why I'm like such a type a perfectionist,

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Speaker 2: because I was raised by military men and he so

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Speaker 2: he's always doing stuff. He's always on the roof, he's

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Speaker 2: always in the roof. He's always, you know where he

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be, just constantly fixing stuff. And he uses these

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Speaker 2: stupid ladders to get up and down the roof. And

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Speaker 2: three times last year he was on the roof and

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Speaker 2: the ladder fell off the roof. So my sixty year

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Speaker 2: old father decided that it would be a good idea

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Speaker 2: to jump off the roof to get down. I know,

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Speaker 2: and I had to say to him, Dad, if you

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Speaker 2: if I catch you jumping off the roof one more time,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to confiscate all your ladders, which then makes

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Speaker 2: me really concerned about like his risk of having a

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Speaker 2: fall breaking his hip, and that to kind of really

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Speaker 2: sit mom and dad down and say, you know, when

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Speaker 2: you get over a certain age, like this is not ages,

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Speaker 2: This is just a statistical fact. When you get over

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Speaker 2: a certain age, you are much more likely to break bones.

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Speaker 2: And if you break a bone at a certain age

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Speaker 2: and you have to be hospitalized, the risk of deconditioning

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Speaker 2: in the hospital is tenfold for someone half your age.

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Speaker 2: So the chances of you having much more sever your

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Speaker 2: outcomes for the subsequent twelve months after a fall, the

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Speaker 2: rifts increase substantially of you breaking that hip or getting

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Speaker 2: hospitalized again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I know that sometimes I can be

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Speaker 1: a broken record on this show, but with this particular topic,

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Speaker 1: I don't care. I've said to I've said to people

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Speaker 1: thousands of times and thousands of situations. If you are

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Speaker 1: fifty years or older and you are not doing something

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Speaker 1: to either maintain or improve your strength, you're actually doing

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Speaker 1: yourself a disservice. I was going to say something harsher

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Speaker 1: then I won't say that, But like my dad turns

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Speaker 1: eighty five on July fourth, and I take him to

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Speaker 1: the gym every Saturday. I drive for four hours, right,

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Speaker 1: drive two hours up and two hours that I love

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Speaker 1: my dad, Right, He's a grumpy old bastard, but I

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Speaker 1: love my dad. But I spend four hours in the

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Speaker 1: car to train him for sixty minutes. Now. The reason is, like,

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Speaker 1: we talk about balance, and I know this is not

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Speaker 1: really your wheelhouse, but fuck it, here we are. You've

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Speaker 1: got a dad. I've got a dad, right, So and people,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have some older let's call them wiser,

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Speaker 1: more senior listeners, shout out to you guys. But the

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Speaker 1: truth is that like a lot of the instability and

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Speaker 1: the lack of or the decreased coordination and balance and

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Speaker 1: motor control and all of that is just that thing

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Speaker 1: that I said before cycopenia is people lose strength and

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Speaker 1: lose muscle. But the good news is that you can

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Speaker 1: be like I'm sixty. Now. I don't mean this arrogantly

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Speaker 1: because I don't have great genetics, but there's nothing about

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Speaker 1: me from a physiological point of view that seems or

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Speaker 1: operates like a typical sixty year old, and.

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Speaker 2: That you don't look like a sixty year old. You

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Speaker 2: look good.

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Speaker 1: No, thank you, but what I mean and I'm not fishing,

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Speaker 1: but because I.

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Speaker 2: Literally currently you can't see you guys with actually flexing

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Speaker 2: in the screen. I just saw him kiss his bifab.

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Speaker 1: I've just taken my shirt off. I'll leave my cargoes on.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. That is not that's all bullshit. My shirt

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Speaker 1: is on. I didn't kiss my bicets, but now you

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Speaker 1: mention it. But very big, thank you, so many hilarious.

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Speaker 2: He's flexing, guys, He's flexing, and I've gone bright red.

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Speaker 1: Whatever.

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Speaker 2: Anyway you were talking about, psycopedia, stay on topic.

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Speaker 1: The bottom line is, like, to take our messages, we

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Speaker 1: should all lift weights, and not only should we all

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Speaker 1: or we should all do some form of strength training

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Speaker 1: men and women, old and young, and not just because

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Speaker 1: it increases bone density and muscle mass and strength and

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Speaker 1: function and balance. It also improves cognitive function. It also

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Speaker 1: correlates with better brain chemistry. It also correlates with better

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Speaker 1: mental and emotional health.

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Speaker 3: It also gets us everyone what really and also just

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Speaker 3: making that up, but so many people that I know

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Speaker 3: that train thirty forty fifty per cent of the benefit

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Speaker 3: for them is that they're going somewhere where there are

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Speaker 3: other people and it's a good environment and it's positive,

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Speaker 3: and they're doing something that's great for their body, and

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Speaker 3: they end up making friends, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, And do you know what that's I think it

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Speaker 2: ties into brain atrophy as well, because you're talking about

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Speaker 2: muscular atrophy and your limbs and your young your legs, etc.

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Speaker 2: But I'm as a neuropsychologist. One of the biggest preventers

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Speaker 2: of dementia is having an active brain. So keeping on

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Speaker 2: learning and keeping on socializing the biggest preventer for dementia.

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Speaker 2: They think the two big At wealth, there's three big preventers,

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Speaker 2: but the two big preventers are keep learning. Some people

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Speaker 2: who have more education or longer years of school are

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Speaker 2: less likely to get dementia, or it'll take long after

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Speaker 2: the dementia are set in. And people who continue to

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Speaker 2: be social and don't become homebodies, like what you're talking about,

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Speaker 2: spending twenty three hours a day at home, not wanting

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Speaker 2: to go outside anymore. People who keep going out, they

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Speaker 2: keep making friends, they keep seeing someone, They go to

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Speaker 2: the gym and they get a nice little group at

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Speaker 2: the gym. Your dad socializing with you every Saturday. That

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Speaker 2: keeps you socially on your toes too, So it keeps

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Speaker 2: you neurostimulated, which keeps your brain moving and chugging it away,

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Speaker 2: and you're flexing all those lovely brain muscles, which is

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Speaker 2: what staves off dementia as well. Third one is food.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we could talk talk about food till

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Speaker 2: the cows come home. Mediterranean diet, guys, that's a look

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Speaker 2: it up Blue zones.

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Speaker 1: Do you know how many episodes we've done on food?

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Speaker 1: Trust me, when you go diet, look it up. They know.

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Speaker 1: My group have had a lot of conversations around paleo

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Speaker 1: and Mediterranean and intimate and fast, that low carb fucking

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Speaker 1: we've We've done it all.

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Speaker 2: But what I have a theoretical question. Okay, well, I

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Speaker 2: have a theory of really quick, really quick theoretical question. So,

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Speaker 2: with your brain, you have a cognitive reserve, and I

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Speaker 2: like to imagine, like a pac man going numb, numb,

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Speaker 2: eating away this buffer that we all have. All of

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Speaker 2: us are going to get dementia eventually. It's just a

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Speaker 2: matter of how long do you live as to whether

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Speaker 2: that dementia comes out or not. All of us will,

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Speaker 2: your brain will eventually age so much that you get dementia.

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Speaker 2: But depending on how healthy your brain is, what is

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Speaker 2: your cognitive buffer, That will depend on how long it

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Speaker 2: takes before the dementia shows. So I've very healthy person

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Speaker 2: might not show dementsion to one hundred, whereas someone who

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Speaker 2: has less education, less socializing, more risk factors might show

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Speaker 2: when they're sixty. Do you think that's a there's a

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Speaker 2: muscle buffer as well, if you have an early history

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Speaker 2: of working out and you have trained your muscles from

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Speaker 2: a young age, like, do they keep that muscle memory?

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Speaker 2: Is there a buffer?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's actually science on this now and I won't

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Speaker 1: bore you with that, but it's what they call muscle memory.

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Speaker 1: So if let's say, for example, you know forty year

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Speaker 1: old me who had trained from when I was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: which is when I started, versus forty year old me

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Speaker 1: in another universe that didn't lift at all until I

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Speaker 1: was And let's say that forty year old me took

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Speaker 1: a year off and I got back to it at

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Speaker 1: forty one versus forty one year old me that had

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Speaker 1: never lifted away. The forty one year old, pre trained

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Speaker 1: version of me would adapt much more quickly and would

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Speaker 1: be stronger much more quickly. We know that. But I

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Speaker 1: think also, you know, like you're talking about training and learning,

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Speaker 1: and like, I think there are a myriad of parallels

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Speaker 1: between training training literally our skalidal muscle and training our brain,

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Speaker 1: and the benefits are similar in that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: improved function and increased health span, whether that's you know,

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Speaker 1: cognitive health or emotional or physiological, you know, muscular health,

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Speaker 1: bone health, whatever. I know that. I mean, it's very hard,

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Speaker 1: like all of us that all of us, our individual

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Speaker 1: experience as a human is a subjective interpretation of whatever,

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Speaker 1: but as objective and as aware as I can try

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Speaker 1: to be. My brain works better at sixty than it

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Speaker 1: did at thirty, which definitely sh Yeah, well i'd agree.

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Speaker 2: Is that because of what were you doing when you're

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Speaker 2: thirty or is it what you're doing now six?

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Speaker 1: I've always been busy, right. I started my first business

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Speaker 1: at nineteen, which was a scrambling design business. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: was always just doing stuff. I was always worked multiple jobs.

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Speaker 1: I opened my first gym at twenty six, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't go to UNI for the first time until I

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Speaker 1: was thirty six. I didn't start formally studying. I was

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Speaker 1: thirty six, and at that stage I'd had a myriad

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Speaker 1: of jobs. I'd been I was writing for the Herald Sun,

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Speaker 1: I'd written a book, I'd worked, I'd coached an AFL

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Speaker 1: team as a strength coach by blahh. I just did

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Speaker 1: a lot of things right. And then the year after

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Speaker 1: I graduated from my first degree, I started lecturing the

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Speaker 1: course I just came out of because I had an

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Speaker 1: extensi well, I had an extensive background in training athletes,

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Speaker 1: working with team amazing, and as a sports science graduate,

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Speaker 1: I had way more kind of on the ground experience

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Speaker 1: than all of my lecturers in certain areas, so exercise programming,

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Speaker 1: they knew that I knew more than them because I've

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Speaker 1: been doing it for twenty years, right, And that's not

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Speaker 1: an ego thing, that's just an experienced thing. But I

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Speaker 1: started my PhD at fifty six, I wrote my first

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Speaker 1: book and forty right, and so like, I've been a

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Speaker 1: lifelong learner, and I've put myself in consistently, put myself

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Speaker 1: in environments and situations and roles where I have to

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Speaker 1: keep learning. I have to keep working against physical, mental, emotional,

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Speaker 1: and cognitive resistance. I have to keep upskilling otherwise I'm

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Speaker 1: going to fail. Like I didn't know what the fuck

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Speaker 1: a podcast was when I was fifty. I did all

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Speaker 1: nobody did ten years ago. Really maybe I had an

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Speaker 1: inkling right, and now I've done two thousand podcasts. But

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Speaker 1: you can't get good at the thing that you won't do.

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Speaker 1: You can't master something that And I think that, apart

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Speaker 1: from the fact that it's interesting and exciting and to

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Speaker 1: stay curious, to stay busy, it's also improves so much

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Speaker 1: about who you are and how you are on a functional, operational,

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Speaker 1: day to day level. So yeah, as a sixty year old,

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Speaker 1: nothing about me other than my old fucking head. That's

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Speaker 1: a giveaway, but nothing about me from the subjective experience.

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Speaker 1: Nothing feels sixty.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome, And you're a very young looking sixty year old,

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Speaker 2: And I think it's interesting if you compare to looking

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Speaker 2: at old home videos. The other day with my partner,

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Speaker 2: we were looking at our parents' parents on these home

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Speaker 2: videos and we're like, oh, how old granddad there, How

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Speaker 2: old grand are there? And you know, and like my

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Speaker 2: in laws or my mom my dad saying, oh, they're

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Speaker 2: they're my age that I was now, and we're looking

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Speaker 2: at they like back in the day. You know, they

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Speaker 2: I say this in the most politest way I can,

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Speaker 2: they didn't look they looked sixty. They look like a grandma.

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Speaker 2: They looked older, whereas now, you know, our parents look

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Speaker 2: quite young in comparison to you know, how our parents'

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Speaker 2: parents looked when they were the same age. And I

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Speaker 2: do wonder if part of that is you know, better diet,

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Speaker 2: better living arrangements, better situation in life, better you, better knowledge,

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Speaker 2: better access to resources and food, et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, and all of these things are having this

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Speaker 2: amazing impact on you know, each subsequent generator. Even just

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Speaker 2: wearing sunscreen Craig, Like, do you wear sunscreen every day?

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Speaker 2: You must, You've got.

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing sunscreen. I'm wearing sunscreen.

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Speaker 2: Right now in the studio. It's actually wearing a hat

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Speaker 2: and sunny. Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: He's the thing though, right, like I will sit down

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Speaker 1: with somebody and or so well you're talk to anyone,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you go all right, so your diet's

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Speaker 1: pretty good, well done. Like in the old days, like

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Speaker 1: what they would call healthy eating wasn't particularly healthy necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Although let's just say that obviously, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: what gets called food these days is fucking not food.

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Speaker 1: I call it food like substances. Right, But think about

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Speaker 1: all of the stuff that we.

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Speaker 4: Know now that impact impacts our immune system, our cellular health,

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Speaker 4: our energy levels, our cognitive function, our bone density, our

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Speaker 4: you know. Even I was talking to somebody the other

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Speaker 4: day and they pretty much tick all the boxes except.

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Speaker 1: They sleep on average three hours a night. And I

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Speaker 1: said to lady, I said, I hate to tell you,

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Speaker 1: but you can't be healthy. It doesn't matter if you've

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Speaker 1: got the best diet, the best training, training program, the

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Speaker 1: best lifestyle, the best supplements, and even the best attitude,

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Speaker 1: and all of those things, of course really help. But

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Speaker 1: unless you're a genetic freak. There's actually a group of people,

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Speaker 1: and I forget what it's called, but it's like one

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Speaker 1: in ten thousand people. But for most of us, like

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Speaker 1: rock Bottom, it's got to be like six six and

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Speaker 1: a half hours rock Bottom. So if you'll have a

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Speaker 1: three hours sleep, your immune system, your endocrime system, your

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Speaker 1: nervous system, your ability to recover and repair, all that

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Speaker 1: stuff gets kind of blown out the window to an extent.

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Speaker 1: And so but we know now we even know that

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Speaker 1: you and me, let's hope we like each other. I

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Speaker 1: like you and hopefully you like me. But you and

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Speaker 1: me now having fun as friends talking shit is literally

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Speaker 1: good for our health.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel my brain getting stronger right now. I

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Speaker 2: think I feel my frontal lobes like throbbing with the

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Speaker 2: learning the other you know what. I will also just

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Speaker 2: add to that, though I just riffing with you now,

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Speaker 2: I will say one other tip that I've learned over

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Speaker 2: the years. If you have a parent or you yourself think

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Speaker 2: that you have hearing issues, you must, must, must, must,

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Speaker 2: must get a check because one of the biggest predictives,

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Speaker 2: another big predicta they've recently found of dementia is untreated

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Speaker 2: hearing issues. So there's often that perception. And we sort

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Speaker 2: of touched on a little bit with my dad and

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Speaker 2: refusing to give up the ladders and refusing to go

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Speaker 2: on the roof and kind of know his act more

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Speaker 2: in line with the boundaries of his age, but he

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Speaker 2: also had some difficulties with hearing, and I had to

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Speaker 2: kind of sit him down and say, Dad, you know

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Speaker 2: you're hearing. There's various reasons why you should go get

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Speaker 2: your hearing checked, but there's two big ones. Number one,

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Speaker 2: you're hearing today, Let's say you're hearing today is not

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Speaker 2: so great. If you get hearing aids, twelve months from now,

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Speaker 2: your hearing will be the same. It'll be the same.

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Speaker 2: But if you do not go and get support for

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Speaker 2: your ears, and you do not get the appropriate, you know,

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Speaker 2: hearing assistance, then your hearing will decline between now and

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Speaker 2: twelve months. It will get worse in twelve months time

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Speaker 2: because of that lack of lack of assistance. The second

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Speaker 2: thing is it increases your risk of demas if you

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Speaker 2: have hearing loss, it actually increases your risk of dementia.

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Speaker 2: So untreated hearing loss is a massive predictor for dementia

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Speaker 2: later in life. And the you know, there's some correlations

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Speaker 2: to explain maybe why we think that occurs, but predominantly

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Speaker 2: it might be because of the loss of then socializing,

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Speaker 2: the reduction in socializing that occurs when you can't hear anyone,

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Speaker 2: the fact you can't participate in a group conversation, and

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Speaker 2: there's probably also some neurological things going on, but it's

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Speaker 2: just yet another thing as we like aging in an

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Speaker 2: accepting way where we except we're at a different age,

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Speaker 2: and we need to we just need to do things

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Speaker 2: a little bit differently. There's no shame in getting some

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Speaker 2: help for things like hearing, and you should because it's

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Speaker 2: good for your brain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know what else is

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Speaker 1: really interesting, Well you can explain this better than me,

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Speaker 1: but you know, being you know a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that affect brain function or cognitive function really quickly. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: stress and anxiety have almost if you're really stressed around

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Speaker 1: has an immediate impact on cognition. If you're dehydrated, same

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Speaker 1: if you're underslept, same if you've got booze, If you've

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Speaker 1: got booze in your system, same.

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Speaker 2: Right, substances, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, substances. And it's like, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: know off the top of your head, but there's a

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Speaker 1: formula that I've heard thrown around a few times between

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Speaker 1: you know, being underslept by a certain percentage it equates

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Speaker 1: to like the equivalent of being point zero five of

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but it's like, I

403
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Speaker 1: know the times when I've been really which is rare,

404
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Speaker 1: but sleep deprived because I've just got you know, like

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Speaker 1: I'm running a camp for the weekend and I've been

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Speaker 1: kind of going forty eight hours by Sunday night. My

407
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Speaker 1: IQ's about fucking seven. I'm like a wombat, right, But

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Speaker 1: there are so many There are so many things that

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Speaker 1: And also another thing that is I didn't know this

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Speaker 1: until a couple of years ago. And you know this

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Speaker 1: is that although your brain only weighs about three pounds

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Speaker 1: or one point three or four kilos, it uses twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of our energy, right, twenty percent of Wow?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what burns calories to think, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't realize it was twenty percent. But I'm not surprised,

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Speaker 2: and I think new parents is probably fifty percent.

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Speaker 1: So think about this, somebody like me who weighs eighty

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Speaker 1: five kilos. Let's say my brain is one point three

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Speaker 1: I don't know what percentage of that it would be, like,

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Speaker 1: but less than two percent, but less than two percent

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Speaker 1: of my body uses twenty percent of my energy and

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Speaker 1: take that's that's like, you know, like literally mad using

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Speaker 1: your brain burns energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeap. And the brain is the only organ in

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Speaker 2: your body that studies itself. It's crazy, isn't that?

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Speaker 1: Well? That's the is it the brain?

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Speaker 4: Wild?

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Speaker 1: Is it the brain or is it the oh.

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Speaker 2: This is your this is your PhD. I don't know

430
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: you till us tell us in six months when you

431
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: publish it. But I'll also add another crazy point if

432
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: you okay, this is one. This is a PSA. I'm

433
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: going to put this out. If you have access to

434
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: ADHD medication, you are not diagnosed with ADHD, please don't

435
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: take other people's ADHD medication. There's a common misconception. I'm

436
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: sure we'll talk ADHD another day, but people who are

437
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: taking are seeing this a lot of the clinic, you know,

438
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: I diagnose ADHD I to assessments for a living with

439
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: neurodiversity and autism and stuff. I'm seeing a lot of

440
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: people who will take ADHD medication that they've gotten access

441
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: to to help their brain, help them concentrate. And the

442
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: latest research there used to be this idea that, oh, yes,

443
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: it will help me concentrate, to take someone else's riddle

444
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: and or take someone's dex amphetamine whatever it was. But

445
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: actually the latest Rich show is telling us that if

446
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: you do not have ADHD and you take des amphetamine

447
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: or any kind of you know, stimulant medication for ADHD,

448
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: if you don't have that diagnos the medication actually does

449
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: the opposite to you, and it can make you appear

450
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 2: like you have ADHD, So it makes your concentration worth

451
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: worth but your perception of your concentration, your belief about

452
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: your concentration is that it's better, so you believe you're

453
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: doing better. But actually the researchers who have tested people

454
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: and put them through tasks and where they have to concentrate,

455
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: they've actually found those people could when they were taking

456
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: the medicine perceive their performance to be better, but they're

457
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: actually much more likely to switch tasks, not stay on track,

458
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 2: click from one thing to the next in a bit

459
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: of a hurried fashion, without realizing that they were much

460
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: more disorganized than they were without the medication. So it's

461
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: a really big placebo effect when people take medication who

462
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: do not have the diagnosis. So if you know, that's

463
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: one of the ways the trial to figure out if

464
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: you really do have ADHD, you'll notice the difference when

465
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: you take the medication for the better, But if you

466
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: don't have ADHD, it will make you worse. So people

467
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: trying to get a quick fix or a silver bullet

468
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: or a magic pill for making their brain better, Unfortunately,

469
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: there really isn't that magic pill you do as you say,

470
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: you need that holistic approach to are you sleeping right?

471
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: Is your mood? Okay, you're working out? And if you

472
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: do think you have a neurodiversity, have you done the

473
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 2: appropriate steps to get it properly, properly checked, not just

474
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: popping a pill because it might make things worse rather

475
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: than better.

476
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: Well, there's about seventy million bio hackers out there who

477
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: are rolling their eyes at you, saying you clearly don't

478
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: understand eutropics. You clearly have, like have you? I agree

479
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: with you, by the way, But it is funny because

480
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: there's a whole field of supplements proliferating right now all

481
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: around cognitive function. And oh do you mean.

482
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: Like ginco boloma and like.

483
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: Line No, no, no, they're supplements like no, these are

484
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: I can't say too much, but let's just say I

485
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: know at least fifty people who use neotropics, and by

486
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: that I mean things like pro vidual modafinite, things that

487
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: are so For example, modfinitel is an anti narcolepsy drug.

488
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: Wake right, Yeah, it's not a stimulant per se. Nicotine.

489
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: Nicotine is massive, massive, really massive, not not pertually, not

490
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: in your environment, but m.

491
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: UNI students. What I think, because I'm lecturing now, I

492
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: lecture at UTS, teaching the psychometrics to the master students,

493
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: and you know, I think you're in exposure to UNI students,

494
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 2: not necessarily UTS students, but just across the board. When

495
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: I was at UNI, people using things like, yeah, the nudos,

496
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: or people who were taking medicine from friends who are

497
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: diagnosed with ADHD, people who perhaps might you know, do

498
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: things like chew nicotine gum. But interestingly, they always rolled

499
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 2: into the exams looking like death, warmed up, looking exhausted,

500
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: and I often wondered whether it was just the adrenaline

501
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: of being so close to the deadline that got them

502
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: over the edge. You know, is it really actually helping you?

503
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: What's the long term ramification to your liver and your

504
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: gut and your your health, and you know, even just

505
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: the diuretic effects of eating heaps and heaps of nicotine

506
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: gum that you don't need. You know, I can only

507
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: imagine what that does to your bowels. But yeah, there's

508
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: better ways. There's better magic pills than pop and nodos, guys,

509
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: And now by that I mean exercise than sleep.

510
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: Well, there's no I mean, there's no doubt that all

511
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: of those things over the long term and no good

512
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: for you. And even then the short term they're not

513
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: good for you. But I think like one of my

514
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: friends got diagnosed with sleep apnea, which a lot of

515
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: people have, and so he's got one of those sleepy machine,

516
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: those sleep a datata. Anyway, the bottom line, bottom line

517
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: is he now sleeps great. Well, now he's like a

518
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: fucking genius just because he's.

519
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 5: Sleeping like he's literally it's literally smarter, like as in functionally,

520
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 5: he's like, oh my god, I didn't realize I was.

521
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: I was like a V eight running on two cylinders.

522
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: And now he sleeps proptly. He's changed his diet, his

523
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: last weight, he's cut out nearly all booze, and he

524
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: drinks water so he's well hydrated, he's well rested. He's

525
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: not carrying a round weight that was non functional. Yes, like,

526
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: apart from all the obvious physiological benefits, you know, look

527
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: for your function, health, immune system, energy levels, his brain.

528
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: It's like he said to me the other day, I

529
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: literally feel smarter, and I go, well, you probably literally

530
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: are smarter from a function point of view. Just because

531
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: you did your.

532
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: Body testing wise as well. One of the primary things

533
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: I have to constantly rule out when I do a

534
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: dementia assessment or a fronto temporal dementia assessment, which affects

535
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: your frontal lobes and can make you act very odd

536
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: and make silly decisions and not use reasoning and insight,

537
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 2: you know, changes personalities. Because it really affects the frontal

538
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: part of our brain. I have to constantly rule out,

539
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: you know, what is a confound, what could be muddying

540
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: the water here, and those things are things like untreated

541
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: sleep apnea. So somebody who's snoring in the night is

542
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: a sign. People who stop breathing in the night is

543
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: a sign. You know. The partner often can take the

544
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: room because a person's so loud. Waking up and having

545
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: excessive daytime sleepiness. There's actually a clinical term excessive daytime

546
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: sleepiness where you're drifting off, you know, during meetings or

547
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: when things are a bit more dull, You're falling asleep,

548
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: you needing to take naps during the day, You're getting sleep,

549
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: but you wake up exhausted. You know. I have to

550
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: rule those things out when I'm assessing someone for ADHD

551
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: or for a cognitive impairment or for a dementia, because

552
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: it's the bottom of the cognitive pyramid, you know, it's

553
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: the primary, primary bottom, you know, until you can get

554
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: into other you can't even get into more complex cognitive

555
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: abilities like executive function or memory or language. If you

556
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: don't have adequate if you're not medically stable, right, and

557
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: if you're if you're a walking zombie because you've had

558
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: not enough sleep or poor quality sleep.

559
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, I've got a very specific question that I

560
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever asked you so now, without opening

561
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: the autism or the neurodiversity door to wide or even

562
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: the depression or anxiety or anything in that mental health

563
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: brain health brain function space, do you think that the

564
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: way that our brains are working in twenty twenty four

565
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: and perhaps what seems to be the increased prevalence of

566
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: mental health issues and neurodivergent kind of people and all

567
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: of that stuff, do you think that's we're just that's

568
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: always been at that level and we're just more aware

569
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: of it. Or do you think it's increasing. Do you

570
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: think it's increasing because of things like global pandemics, diet,

571
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: you know, plastics and all of the you know, the

572
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: myriad of things that we are now doing to our

573
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: bodies that we didn't do two generations ago or even

574
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: one generation ago.

575
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: Oh so interesting, that's really interesting. I think we could

576
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: do another an entire episode on neurodiversity. We should. But

577
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: my short answer is yes and no. There's better every

578
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: time we've had an increase in diagnostic criteria. So when

579
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: we've had a new DSM Diagnostic Statistical Manual Mental Disorders

580
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: or ICD International Classification of Disease, every time they've had

581
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: a new one come out, So we're in the fifth

582
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: edition of the DSM, we're in the tenth edition of

583
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: the ICD. When there's a new edition come out and

584
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: the criteria is a little better, a little more precise,

585
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: a little more refined, little more finessed, a little less

586
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: you know, bias to gender, then there's a sudden spike

587
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: in diagnoses, and that probably reflects better ability to detect

588
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: these things. You know, women, in particular, neurodiversity. There was

589
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: a huge group of women. We call them the lost Girls,

590
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: because they were completely undetected because the DSM, yes, the

591
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: DSM is written for it was based the samples are

592
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: based on young boys and men, and so it's a

593
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: serious issue. A lot of the DSM and the disorders

594
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: in our mental health understanding is mostly based on male research,

595
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: and women were excluded because of the concern that things

596
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: like their period would muck up the results. So even

597
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: though they're half the population, they weren't part of the

598
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: research to determine how those disorders displayed themselves. So most

599
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: women don't present the way that people would typically think

600
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: of an ADHD child or an autistic person. They're actually

601
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: the DSM describes autistic males really well and autistic ADHD

602
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: men really well, but it doesn't describe autistic females very well.

603
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: And so we're now we're now figuring out ah well,

604
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: women socially masked and they hide it, and they may

605
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: be more likely to have an internal meltdown rather an

606
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: external meltdown. There's a whole bunch of other presentation factors

607
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: that need to be considered, so't we haven't appropriately detected

608
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: these people. So hence now we're getting a spike in detection.

609
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: And yes, COVID was meant that lots of people couldn't

610
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: assess during COVID, so there's that catch up. We're playing

611
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: catch up with the two years worth of people who

612
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: didn't get assessed during COVID or who realized they had

613
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: symptoms during COVID because isolating for you know, two years

614
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: socially they realized, oh, I actually really like this because

615
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 2: I don't have to socially mask anymore and I can't

616
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: go back to socializing anymore. So now they're presenting for

617
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: autism assessments, or they realized they couldn't concentrate, you know,

618
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: when they weren't in the office, they couldn't concentrate and

619
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 2: they had terrible attention. So now they're getting checked for ADHD.

620
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: So there's that we're playing catch up with that. But

621
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: the flip side of what you're asking is is there

622
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: environmental factors playing epigenetic issues or role in our presentation? Like, so,

623
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: is the environment affecting the genetics and now we're seeing

624
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: greater increases. I previously would have said no, I used

625
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: to I used to be of the you know, in

626
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: the camp of no. No, it's just better. We've got

627
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 2: better means to detect these things now. But there is

628
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: some very new research, very very new research coming out

629
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: that suggests that it is possible that there are certain

630
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 2: toxins in the environment and certain substances that women are

631
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: being exposed to that affects babies in the womb. So

632
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 2: one of them are, you know, prenatal vitamins for example, Greig,

633
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 2: you know, how often do you hear or see those

634
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: videos about those ads about taking prenatal vitamins, Like, it's

635
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: really important to take your prenatal vitamins. If you're thinking

636
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: of trying to get a pregnant, you should take them

637
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 2: straight away, and while you're pregnant, make sure you take them.

638
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: With this idea that, oh, there's no harm in making

639
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: sure you have lots of nutrients. Make sure you have

640
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: lots and lots of nutrients. But now there's some early

641
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: research to suggest, oh, actually having too many of certain

642
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 2: nutrients may actually be linked to increased rates of perhaps

643
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: autism or AHD later in life for these children because

644
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: they were over exposed to stim these supplements. So now

645
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: doctors are not necessarily prescribing, you know, as a rule

646
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: of thumb, to every pregnant woman take supplements. Now they're

647
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: only prescribing them if the woman actually shows a death

648
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: sit of some kind in her blood. So there's some

649
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: early research coming out to suggest yes, you may very

650
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: bur be right about the factors of the environment. Yeah.

651
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 1: And the other thing that doesn't get mentioned a lot

652
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: just in it does in science, but in just you know,

653
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: in the media, when people are talking about all the

654
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: variables around health, there's like these sweeping statements that are

655
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: doing this. Does that to who? Like I just met

656
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: with a friend of mine. His name's Terry, and he

657
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: had a I forget the type of brain cancer it was,

658
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: but he ended up undergoing twenty nine operations and the

659
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: fact that he's alive. He's a miracle man. He's a

660
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: miracle man. Yeah, we were talking about We're talking about

661
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: a few things, but one of the things we're talking

662
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: about was Lyrica, which is a drug for pain, neural pain, right,

663
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: which you would not So can I say this? Can

664
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: I say this? I think I can. Well, I won't

665
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: say exactly how much. But so Terry is in constant

666
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: pain and he has to take Lyrica as just a

667
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: daily just to be able to function. Right now, A

668
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: few years ago, I fucked my back and I got

669
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: prescribed Lyrica. I'd never had it. I took one seventy

670
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: one seventy five meal tablet and I sat in this

671
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: room that I'm in now, I was sitting in a

672
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: comfy chair and I was in massive pain. I took

673
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: the Lyrica. Twenty minutes later the pain started to subside.

674
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: And in front of me is a whiteboard on the wall.

675
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: I've told this few times on the show. I'm sorry everybody,

676
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: but so there was writing on the whiteboard, Hannah, and

677
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: I was looking at the writing, and it slid off

678
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: the whiteboard and onto the wall. And now the writing

679
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: was on the writing was on the wall, and the

680
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: white board was clear. Now I'm sitting there, eyes wide open,

681
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: looking at the clear whiteboard and now all this writing

682
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: on the wall, fully knowing that that's not real. It

683
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: can't be right.

684
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: Okay, so you knew it was a hallucination.

685
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: I knew, but I'm looking at it. I literally closed

686
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: my eyes and reopened my eyes, and the writing was

687
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: still on the wall. Now here's my point. I had

688
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: one tablet and I weigh eighty five kilos. He has

689
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: a lot more than that. I won't say how much,

690
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: but a lot. Anyway, he's probably seventy kilos. And not

691
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: only does he not hallucinate, it kind of makes him

692
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: feel better. Right, I'm just thinking. So the funny thing

693
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: is it's like, oh, people go this is good, this

694
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: is bad, and you go, well, One, it depends on

695
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: how that particular stimulus, whether it's peanuts, almonds, soid products, lyrica, booze,

696
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: sun exposure, like, it depends on how that stimulus interacts

697
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: with that individual's physiology. So to say categorically that this

698
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: is good, this is bad is completely fucking ignorance because

699
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: the thing that would be terrible for me could save

700
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: someone else's life. You know, for me, a healthy snack

701
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: could be For me, a healthy snack could be a

702
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: handful of peanuts or almonds, But for someone else that

703
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: will kill them. Right, So there's you know, in exercise,

704
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: it's the same. You know, in exercise science, you need

705
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: to stretch more. No, for some people, stretching is bad.

706
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: And I was even talking about a book recently called

707
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 1: Bad Therapy by researcher who interviewed a myriad of world

708
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: class psychologists and neuropsychologists around different models and treatments for

709
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with psychological issues. And what she found

710
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: was that for some people, talk therapy makes it worse.

711
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's not right for their brain, that's right, yeah,

712
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 2: that's right.

713
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: And so for some people it's like, oh, every second

714
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Tuesday they go and see you know, Diane the psychotherapist,

715
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: and then they come out of their triggered and stress,

716
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: and then they come out worse and then it takes

717
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: them three days to reset, and then eleven days later

718
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: they go back through the same process. And so it's

719
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: not to say amends are good or bad, or talk

720
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: therapy is good or bad, or sun exposure is good

721
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: or bad, but just that we are not all generic,

722
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: we are not all clones. And it's trying to figure

723
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: out how you know, Hannah works, how Craig works, and

724
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: then figure out with yes, we need to listen to

725
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: people like you who are experts and maybe me, but

726
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: also rather consider us, don't necessarily believe us unequivocally.

727
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: That's it. I would highly recommend any women listening for Pregnant,

728
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: you know, talk to your doctor. Don't don't go changing

729
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: what you're doing from listening to a podcast. You need

730
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: to you need to consult your doctor specifically. And this

731
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: is obviously not specific advice for anyone. So that's exactly right.

732
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: And I think the next question that would come to

733
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: a listener's mind is how do I how do I

734
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: figure out what's right for me? And it's one thing

735
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 2: that I've kind of learned from doing neuropsyche for however

736
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: long now is speaking to the right person, speaking to

737
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: the right expert. And it's a it's a it's a

738
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 2: mix of speaking to the right specialists, but also know

739
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: thyself and trust, trust your own gut in a way,

740
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: because I'll often have people present to Neuropsyche for an

741
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: assessment for autism or ADHD, and we do an intake

742
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: first before I assess you. I don't assess people until

743
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: I've done a session with them first for an hour

744
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: to hear you know what serious you? What is your concern?

745
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: When did that happen? Why are you worried? Why do

746
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: you want an assessment? Now? I'm not going to book

747
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: you in for a thousand dollars assessment and till I

748
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: know why do you want this assessment? What is exactly

749
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: the problem? And let's go back to pregnancy when you

750
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: were first born and work our way back to now

751
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: to figure out what your developmental history is to see

752
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: if this is appropriate for you. So you know, one part,

753
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: A lot of those people who present to me have

754
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: been through a very windy road to get to that

755
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: point of finally, finally, finally getting a neurodivergent assessment to

756
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 2: see if they have autism or ADHD. And often they're presenting,

757
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: and you know, that's half the battle, because they know

758
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: themselves something's not typical. You know, I feel different, I

759
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: feel really different. And this is not just depression or anxiety.

760
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 2: I've tried the therapy, I've tried the medication and it's

761
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: not going away. And so often that they've come from

762
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: a therapy, you know, history of ten years of therapy

763
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 2: or have many sessions of therapy and they didn't find

764
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 2: it helpful. And I often have to sort of explain

765
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: to them after we've done the assessment and they have

766
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: in fact come up as having ADHD or autism, I

767
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: have to explain to them, you know, yeah, that some

768
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: therapies are for neuro brains, for neurotypical brains. But you know, Craig,

769
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 2: they think, on average is about forty two percent of

770
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: the population. When you put all the different neurodiversity, specific

771
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: learning disorder, dyslexia, discalculia, disgraphia, ADHD, ASD or TIM spectrum

772
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: just sort of put them all together, it's something like

773
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: forty two percent of population as a neurodiversity, so half

774
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: the population is not neurotypical yet were We often try

775
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: to squeeze a square peg into a round hole and

776
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: give people the same kind of CBT DBT, the same

777
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: kind of therapy, but it may not be right for them,

778
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: and that might be why it hasn't been effective for them,

779
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: because they needed a neurodiverse therapy. And it's not your fault.

780
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: It's not that you weren't trying hard enough, or you

781
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: were being lazy, or you just weren't putting enough effort in.

782
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: It could be that just it actually wasn't the right

783
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: wasn't the right intervention for you. So part of it

784
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: is finding the right the right specialist who knows what

785
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: they're talking out and the other part of it is

786
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: knowing yourself. Does it feel right, does it resonate with me?

787
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: Does this answer my question? Six month review six month reviews?

788
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Is it's working for me? Or are you just going

789
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 2: along passively? Is it actually working for you and checking

790
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 2: in with yourself? You know, probably, Craig, you talk about

791
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 2: goals all the time. You know, goals at the start

792
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: of the year and checking in, and you've got that

793
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 2: great journal that you sell with the you know, the

794
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: goals of setting up your plan for the year and

795
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: setting yourself up and breaking those goals down to week, monthly, weekly, daily.

796
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: It's an excellent journal, guys. If you haven't seen it,

797
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: you should check it out. But you know, checking in

798
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: to make sure you're not just passively going along with

799
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: a plan that was given to you and actually saying

800
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: do I feel better? Do I have less symptoms of

801
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 2: depression and anxiety? Is the medication working for me? Or

802
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 2: do I need to try something different? Six month still

803
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: the same, then it's probably not quite working for you.

804
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: So interesting because when you say listen, thank you for that,

805
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 1: that's all fucking fascinating. When you say on nearly half

806
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: the population is neurodivergent and just over half the population

807
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: is neurotypical, to me, it's like, well, then if that

808
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: many people are divergent, they're fucking typical. You know. It's like, well,

809
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 1: you know this is I don't mean this to sound cynical.

810
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 2: It isn't, but no, no, I get it.

811
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, for all our wisdom and all our

812
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: research and all our DSM five you know, revelations and

813
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: breakthroughs and now we know this and that. To me,

814
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: it seems like we've got all this treatment, all these medications,

815
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: all this knowledge, all this research, all these papers, but

816
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: we've never had more depressed people, more anxious people, more

817
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: people terrified of their own fucking shadow. It's like like

818
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: and more people with I'm like, I don't know. It

819
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like with this increase in knowledge, awareness, treatment, options, research,

820
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem we're getting better. It seems like we

821
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: are seeing more and more mental illness, mental health concerns, anxiety, depression.

822
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: And you only have to look at the rates of

823
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: suicide in young men to know that it's an absolute crisis.

824
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: What is it? One in six men try to take

825
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: their lives every minute. It's like it's something great, Yeah,

826
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: it's something crazy that there's an absolute epidemic in young men,

827
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: in particular with mental illness. You're right, and it could

828
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: be the way we live. Maybe it's partly that little

829
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: black box that you constantly put in your pocket, that

830
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 2: little phone of yours that's constantly talking at you, or

831
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: the TV that we watch and the horrible you know,

832
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: like the media that tells you that you're not seen enough,

833
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: you're not pretty enough, you're not good looking enough, you're

834
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 2: not anything enough. But you need to buy this private

835
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: product and you'll be this thing. And I always find

836
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: it really interesting, Craig, you know, with this these advertising,

837
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 2: Like how many times go on Instagram? How many times

838
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: do you see ads to say, buy this and you'll

839
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 2: have whiter teeth and clearer eyes and shinier, shinier noses,

840
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 2: and we won't have as much axe in your ears

841
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: and you won't have you have perfect hair, and you'll

842
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: be perfectly skinny, and you'll have you know, six minute

843
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: ads and like everything, everything's telling you it's so easy,

844
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: just buy this thing. And then you walk down the

845
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 2: street and how often do you see streets full of

846
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: people who look like the people on TV? Like, how

847
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: often do you see the people on TV just walk

848
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: in the streets Everyone just looks normal. So if these

849
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 2: things actually worked, don't you think everyone would be walking

850
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: away and walking around with the longest, shiniest, amazing hair,

851
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: whitest teeth, perfect skin, no wrinkles. But it's part of this,

852
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: you know, this fallacy we have with you know, the

853
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: media telling us you're not good enough.

854
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: All the time, I agree with you, but also I think, yeah,

855
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: but every single person listening to this has a brain,

856
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: like I don't think. I don't think too many of

857
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: us confuse marketing and advertising with knowledge or information, like

858
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: that stuff that you spoke of. You're right, but it's

859
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: not their fault. It's like if I choose to go

860
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: and buy shit I don't need with money I don't have,

861
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: if I choose to go to McDonald's, if I choose

862
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: to spend twenty grand getting whiter teeth, if I choose

863
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: to sit on the couch, like at some stage we

864
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: need to stop blaming media and social media, like nobody

865
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: makes me pick up my phone thirty times a day.

866
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: You're right, Well, actually I don't know.

867
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: I agree with you, Craig. Are you telling our first

868
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: our first argument ever? But I know there's something to

869
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: be said.

870
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: Don't talk over the top of me. You're not winning

871
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: that way. See it's not how he talks loudest. I

872
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: know what you're going to say about addiction and brain chemistry.

873
00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah, but still still like I've I've

874
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: worked with addicts, I've worked with I worked with addicts

875
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: for three years. I've dealt with people with the worst

876
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: addictions heroine being amongst it, and people who are at

877
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: death's door and have turned their life around in the deepest,

878
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: darkest addiction and now are fully operational, functional and healthy. Right,

879
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: you are right there is Phones and screens can be

880
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: very chemically addictive, of course, but at the same time,

881
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: like when do we stop going, Oh, it's got nothing

882
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: to do with me. It's not my faults. It's not me,

883
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: it's my genetics, it's not me, it's mum and dad.

884
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: It's not me, it's the government. It's not me, it's

885
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: the advertising. Because we seem to live in this culture

886
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: where it doesn't matter what's going on. It can't be

887
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: my fault. Like at some stage we've got to go yes,

888
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: this is hard, Yes this is difficult. But I mean

889
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: my PhD is on self awareness. I think self awareness

890
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: is rare. I think like, let me tell you, the

891
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: biggest problem in Craiguper's life is Craig Up. The biggest

892
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: asset is Craig Up. Nobody makes me do anything. Now, Yes,

893
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 1: we can be predisposed to be more likely to become

894
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: an addict, or more likely to gain weight, or more

895
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: likely to have mental health issues, of course one no argument.

896
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: But beyond that, we still have this thing called free will.

897
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: We can make decisions, we can choose our behaviors, we

898
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: can decide what we do with our time. And there

899
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: will always be variables that are out of our control.

900
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: So let's invest no energy in that. Let's just acknowledge them.

901
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: And now let's let's invest energy in what is in

902
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: our control, the choices I make in action. I take

903
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: my mindset and yeah, you're right, but at some stage,

904
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: like I've never lived in a time where so many

905
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: people are so unwell, but it's got nothing to do

906
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: with them. Like, to me, that's bullshit, And that's not

907
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: about that's not about hating on people. That's about saying, hey,

908
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: it's got a bit to do with you. And yes,

909
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,839
Speaker 1: you've been through some bullshit and it's hard, and I

910
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,479
Speaker 1: agree with you. Life's not fair and your genetic suck

911
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: and all of that. But still it's not compulsory that

912
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: you eat junk and drink junk. Steps down off soapbox.

913
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: No, I totally understand what you're saying about personal accountability,

914
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 2: and I agree. And the most predictive factor in whether

915
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: the success of the success of therapy is the person's

916
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: self felt efficacy, their belief that their behavior will affect

917
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: change your sense of self efficacy, My behavior will make

918
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: us change and how much you believe that to be true.

919
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: But I also, you know, one of the things I

920
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: kind of I always often wonder where psychiatry and psycho neurology,

921
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: you know, where's the line meet between them, and where

922
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 2: are they blurred? Where are they overlapping? Because you know,

923
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: you think of some like a dyslexic child, you know,

924
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: and I see a lot of children. I do a

925
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: lot of dyslexia assessments. But if I was to give

926
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 2: an illiterate adult who has grown up with very limited

927
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 2: education and they have a neurodiverse brain where the phonees

928
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: and the graphines don't connect, they cannot connect the letter

929
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: h A makes an h sound, they cannot connect them

930
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: in their brain because the wiring is not quite right

931
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: for them. And we just gave them a book and

932
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: we said, you need our personal accountability and you need

933
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: to learn to read. And we just gave them a book.

934
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 2: You know that person still will not be able to read.

935
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 2: And it's not because they haven't tried. It's not because

936
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: they don't care it's not because then put the effort in.

937
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 2: It's probably because they are genuinely genetically and you know,

938
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 2: environmentally have grown up in and hasn't fostered that part

939
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: of their self development. And I often wonder. I see

940
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 2: a lot of children. I do a lot of assessments

941
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 2: with some amazing organizations like Life Without Barriers and Berdican

942
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: and some incredible, you know, co incredible organizations who help

943
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 2: young children with trauma who are going into adulthood, who

944
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: have had some really really awful, awful life events occur

945
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 2: to them. And you know, I'll see them before they've

946
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: turned when they're seventeen, on the prespice of turning eighteen,

947
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 2: and people are desperately trying to get these assessments to

948
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: show that, you know, there's cognitive issues or neurodiverse issues,

949
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: so that they can get funding so they can then

950
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: get safe accommodation in housing for when they become an adult,

951
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 2: because when they become eighteen, they're an adult, and people

952
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 2: are terrified for them for when they suddenly go from

953
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 2: you know, being a child who's not responsible for making

954
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 2: their decisions. You know, I'm seventeen and three hundred and

955
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: sixty four days and I'm not responded. I'm a minor

956
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,479
Speaker 2: and I'm not responsible for my decision, and I can't

957
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: be tried as an adult in a court to eighteen

958
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 2: one day and all of a sudden, overnight, I'm an

959
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 2: adult and I'm expected to suddenly have the brain of

960
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: an adult and the frontal lobes of an adult. I

961
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 2: find it are really differ I don't. I find it

962
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: a really difficult and troubling, troubling you know, thought to

963
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: kind of grapple with, like when when are we responsible?

964
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: When are we accountable? And almost always I can trace back,

965
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: you know, somebody who has lacked accountability and self awareness

966
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 2: to some pretty significant stuff that's happened for them when

967
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: they were younger and continues to happen for them. And

968
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 2: I do wonder whether you know the things in life

969
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: that we have that we get to teach, that are

970
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 2: teachers for us every day. The Instagram that teaches us,

971
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: the TV that teaches us, the magazines that teach us,

972
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: whether we're aware of it or not, that we're exposed

973
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 2: to and primed by with this osmosis with the things

974
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 2: around us in society, is it teaching us for betterment.

975
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: Is it teaching us how to be healthy adults? Is

976
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: it teaching us how to be accountable and self aware?

977
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 2: I fear not. I fear it's more teaching us, you know,

978
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: some other values in life that may not actually align

979
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: to healthy living. But it's it's a tough topic.

980
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: I no, one hundred percent agree with you. But then

981
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: I come back to what's in our control. So I

982
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: can't control what's going to be on social media, government,

983
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: mainstream media. So then you go, okay, well, what you

984
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: can do is you cannot watch the news. You cannot

985
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: be on Instagram. You could, that's optional. You cannot look

986
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: at your phone for three hours a day. You cannot

987
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: sit on the couch, that's optional. You could. You know,

988
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: it still comes down to everything you're saying is true.

989
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: And I am just as probably more flawed and more

990
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: weak and more dysfunctional than most of our listeners right

991
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: in that, you know, not a journey. It's not great genetics,

992
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: all those things. But at some stage we've got to go,

993
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: but what am I going to do with my life

994
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: and the hour I do have and the skill that

995
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: I do have, and the brain that I do have,

996
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: and the potential that I do have because what do

997
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: you just go, oh, I'm forty. Yeah, but you know,

998
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: like even one of my friends is dyslexic, bad dyslexic,

999
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: also multimillionaire business man. And I'm not saying so therefore

1000
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: he's great. I'm just saying, people figure it out. People

1001
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: figure it out.

1002
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 2: You know, I would say, how do we get that?

1003
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 2: How do we get that light bulb moment? How does

1004
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 2: that happen? What allows us to have that insight?

1005
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: But also think about this, you know, people like you

1006
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: and I for better or worse, we I mean, you

1007
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 1: do IQ testing on people, which you should. That's a

1008
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: normal part, you know, and we talk about. But intelligence

1009
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: is a spectrum. I mean, some people score low on

1010
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: an IQ test, but they're creative geniuses, or they're mechanical geniuses,

1011
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: or they can build a business, or they can they

1012
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: can paint shit, they can like it's fucking like, there

1013
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: are some people that you would say I have more

1014
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: intelligence then, But it depends on the task, It depends

1015
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: on the environment, it depends on the situation. You put

1016
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: me in some rooms, I go, okay, you put me

1017
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: in another room, I'm a moron. It's context dependent, do

1018
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so this whole idea

1019
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: that Hannah's got a one forty IQ, she's a genius. Yeah,

1020
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: then you throw her a ball and it hits her

1021
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: in the face or your hand, are a crying baby,

1022
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: and she doesn't know what to do. She gets a

1023
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: flat tire and she stands on the side of the road,

1024
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: which I know you wouldn't do.

1025
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: Any Oh, call my I'll call earlier. I call my dad.

1026
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: I know you would.

1027
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: We got to go. That was fun and I'm glad

1028
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: we had our first fight and I think it's I

1029
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: think it's fifteen.

1030
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: Well okay, well look, let's let's save the next one

1031
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: for next chat. I've got some exciting news to tell

1032
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: you for next chat, because I yeah, what's the I'm

1033
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: giving what I'm just a teaser, the teaser. Hannah has

1034
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: some exciting news.

1035
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: In media, we call that a hook. So before you

1036
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: go the break, yeah or teaser?

1037
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly next week on the You project.

1038
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: Coming up next week? Well if your friend next week,

1039
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: we'll do another one. People tell people how to find you.

1040
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so come find me. I am the owner and

1041
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: lead traditioner at Sydney neuropsych which is a Neuropsychology Practice.

1042
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: You can call us or give us a ring or

1043
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 2: come and some see the clinic. Best way to get

1044
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: us is email. Just Addmin at Sydney NP dot com

1045
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: or check me out on Instagram. I'm the no bullsych

1046
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: as in no bull twang you know b U LLL

1047
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: no bullsych ps yich Hannah Coral. Come and find me

1048
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 2: and let's have a chat. Tell me what your opinion

1049
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: of our discussion today was and which side of the

1050
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: fense do you work on? Are you nature or nature? Yeah?

1051
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: N O b U double l not n O b

1052
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: L e as in prize. Yeah, yeah, thank you, appreciate you,

1053
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: Thanks Doc

1054
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me always fun, fun as a weeks

1055
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 2: See you, Craig