Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center.
Speaker 2: This is Paul Murray Live.
Speaker 1: Good evening and welcome to the program. James Borrow here
Speaker 1: sitting in for Paul Murray Live tonight. Great to have
Speaker 1: your company on what has turned out to be a
Speaker 1: very big day in Australian politics, including bombshell allegations at
Speaker 1: bullying in the office of Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles. Hey,
Speaker 1: how's that changing the parliamentary culture thing going for your
Speaker 1: Prime minister. We'll have a chat about that in a moment,
Speaker 1: And whether all the talk about fixing the parliamentary workplace
Speaker 1: and making it a safe place for women labor was
Speaker 1: on about in twenty twenty two was actually serious or
Speaker 1: whether it was just a cudgel to use against Scott Morrison.
Speaker 1: But before we talk about the goings on in Richard
Speaker 1: Marles's office, let's have a chat about another senior minister,
Speaker 1: Jason Claire. Well Claire, of course, is the Education Minister
Speaker 1: and thought to be a future leadership contender in the
Speaker 1: Labor Party, whose name is more than whispered these days,
Speaker 1: as even diehard lefties writing in the pages of the
Speaker 1: Sydney Morning Herald asked the question, what is the point
Speaker 1: of the Albanese government now. Claire, who is personally a
Speaker 1: lovely guy, also represents the Western Sydney seat of Blaxland, where,
Speaker 1: according to the twenty twenty one census, a large proportion
Speaker 1: of the population is second generation Lebanese and thirty one
Speaker 1: point seven percent of locals identify as Muslim, nearly ten
Speaker 1: times proportion in Australia nationally. You see where this is going, right.
Speaker 1: I want to show you a bit of what Jason
Speaker 1: Clare told the ABC this morning and then we can
Speaker 1: have a little chat about it.
Speaker 3: Now, for most of Australia, they see a war on
Speaker 3: the other side of the world community. The people that
Speaker 3: we see images of dying on our TV screens are
Speaker 3: often family or friends, and they're asking for a little
Speaker 3: bit more compassion and a bit more understanding. They're asking
Speaker 3: for the killing to stop, for the slaughter to stop,
Speaker 3: for the starvation of children to stop. They're asking for
Speaker 3: a ceasefire and for the war to end. And I
Speaker 3: don't think that's too much to ask. Every country has
Speaker 3: a right to defend itself, but it also needs to
Speaker 3: comply with international law.
Speaker 2: Is Israel complying with international law?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: The bombing of schools and the bombing of hospitals I
Speaker 3: think are not complying with international law.
Speaker 1: Now look, sure I get it war as hell, but
Speaker 1: let's not forget who started this thing. And it is
Speaker 1: true that an awful lot of civilians have lost their
Speaker 1: lives of the last year, both Israelis who were deliberately
Speaker 1: targeted by Hamas on October seven, which is again how
Speaker 1: this whole thing started, as well as of course Palestinian
Speaker 1: civilians who have been used as human shields by their
Speaker 1: terrorist government. But do you see the problem with what
Speaker 1: Claire is saying here? More broadly, he's taken up the
Speaker 1: cause as a federal minister of his constituents. And you know,
Speaker 1: I suppose that's fire as an MP. But what he's
Speaker 1: doing as a minister is he's taking up and talking
Speaker 1: in favor of a worldview that sees Israel as a
Speaker 1: war criminal, the devil, and which wants a ceasefire so
Speaker 1: that its terrorist enemies have a chance to regroup. Now, remember,
Speaker 1: a ceasefire only gives Hezbollah and all of our rad's
Speaker 1: other proxies who he's everybody else, time to lick their wounds,
Speaker 1: re arm and then guess what start their war against
Speaker 1: Israel at a time of their choosing, and the Almedezy
Speaker 1: government's failure to provide moral clarity on this issue has
Speaker 1: not just encouraged calls for ceasefires like what we just
Speaker 1: heard from Jason Claire, but also I think a complete
Speaker 1: breakdown of what is sometimes called social cohesion. But again,
Speaker 1: the problem with the progressive Albanese style of multiculturalism that
Speaker 1: we saw here is that it seeks to destroy any
Speaker 1: central anchor point for our society. I mean, that's what
Speaker 1: the Voice which went down in a heap a year
Speaker 1: ago next Monday was all about undermining the foundations of
Speaker 1: our nation and casting modern post settlement Australia as something
Speaker 1: we should all feel bad about. That's what the government's
Speaker 1: Multicultural Framework Review, which was also all about keeping us
Speaker 1: in our ethnic silos, even to the point of allowing
Speaker 1: new migrants to take citizenship tests in their old back
Speaker 1: home languages, Well that's what that was all about. What
Speaker 1: it comes down to is dividing us for the sake
Speaker 1: of identity politics. But as we now see increasingly disastrous results,
Speaker 1: because you see, you cannot have a successful multiculturalism unless
Speaker 1: there is a central national idea on astray and dream
Speaker 1: call it that everyone still looks to a positive, forward
Speaker 1: looking vision for the country. And I don't think the
Speaker 1: progressive left of which Albinizi is a part and which
Speaker 1: breaks out in hives when it sees the flag, is
Speaker 1: capable of managing this, which is then how we wind
Speaker 1: up with the sort of might makes right multiculturalism instead
Speaker 1: that we have now that sees everything from ugly protests
Speaker 1: at the Opera House a year ago to university professor's
Speaker 1: offices being occupied by protesters. I mean, look at this.
Speaker 1: Yesterday students tried to occupy a building at the University
Speaker 1: of Western Sydney. They renamed it Hania's Building. Look at this, Hania.
Speaker 1: That's a reference to the Hamas terror chief who was
Speaker 1: blown up, presumably by Israel in his guesthouse in Tehran
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago. The banner, you'll notice if
Speaker 1: you look closely, is also decorated with red triangles. Now
Speaker 1: that's a symbol of the military wing of Hamas. You know,
Speaker 1: the same people who slaughtered twelve hundred Jews a year ago.
Speaker 1: This week the New South Wales Police happily we're having
Speaker 1: none of it.
Speaker 4: Lay my students.
Speaker 2: He alone lay my suit.
Speaker 5: Alone, blame my students alone, blaeve my servants alone, plea.
Speaker 6: Alone.
Speaker 1: All of this occurs because we have a vacuum of
Speaker 1: moral leadership in this country, as we saw with the
Speaker 1: whole debacle over commemorating October seventh in parliament. This is
Speaker 1: a government that cannot help but both sides this issue,
Speaker 1: which is a joke. Albaniasi Anthony Albanizi finds himself unable
Speaker 1: to articulate a clear position when it comes to foreign policy,
Speaker 1: drifting away from our supposedly close ally of the United States.
Speaker 1: On the question of whether or not it would be Hey,
Speaker 1: who thinks this a good idea to eliminate Hesbelah from
Speaker 1: southern Lebanon? You reckon, Yeah, possibly not a bad idea,
Speaker 1: not necessarily the Albanesi government or Jason Clair. And while
Speaker 1: also the government seems never being able to talk about
Speaker 1: the scourge of anti Semitism without again mentioning is Lamophobia. Now,
Speaker 1: the fact that Anthony Albanizi, a left faction warrior who
Speaker 1: helped found the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine, would be in
Speaker 1: such a muddle is no surprise. Nor is the fact
Speaker 1: that the government appears to have let the identity politics
Speaker 1: of heavily Muslim seats in Western Sydy and Melbourne influence
Speaker 1: their foreign policy and national security positions. Here's the funny thing,
Speaker 1: if you can call it funny. While Labor is in
Speaker 1: a muddle and rushing through visas for gosins, even ones
Speaker 1: with terroritize, the rest of the world sees the conflict
Speaker 1: very differently. Scot to Europe, where Italy and France have
Speaker 1: been moving to deport extremists, including people like Pakistani Ibam
Speaker 1: Zulfikar Khan, who had been preaching quote radical positions at
Speaker 1: his mosque in Bologna, lovely town, Bologna, by the way.
Speaker 1: And in the Middle East well, as Michael Schubridge writes
Speaker 1: in The Australian Today, there's an open secret among the
Speaker 1: governments of the Middle East that's driving their respective approaches
Speaker 1: to the war between Israel and Iran. They all welcome
Speaker 1: a week in Iran and the dismantling of its terrorist
Speaker 1: proxies almost as much as Israel does. Schubert analyzes the
Speaker 1: situation with great clarity and concludes the Australian government needs
Speaker 1: to end the quote increasingly empty calls for unilateral ceasefires
Speaker 1: and tepid condemnation of the terrorism that Iran is now
Speaker 1: so obviously cultivating and enabling across this intricate and essential
Speaker 1: region of the world. Now, I've said it before, and
Speaker 1: I'll say it again. If you want peace, if you're
Speaker 1: serious about this, if you want the killing to stop,
Speaker 1: you need one thing, not a ceasefire. You need victory,
Speaker 1: not a bogus ceasefire, and then an endless repeat of
Speaker 1: October seven or whatever other fresh horrors the terrorists have planned.
Speaker 1: Now let's get on to the other big story of
Speaker 1: the day. Bullying allegations centered around the office of Deputy
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Richard Marles. His chief of staff, laid them
Speaker 1: out in a bombshell press conference today. According to Joe Tarnowski,
Speaker 1: she was shut it aside by Marls and hasn't been
Speaker 1: allowed back into the office four months after she raised
Speaker 1: concerns about bullying behavior in the office.
Speaker 7: I have been plagued with nightmares, flashbacks, symptoms of depression
Speaker 7: and anxiety, panic attacks, and suicidal thoughts. The way that
Speaker 7: I have been treated has been cowardly, cruel and completely unnecessary.
Speaker 1: Now Samantha Maiden has obtained text messages between Tanaski and Morals,
Speaker 1: in which she complained, quote, I just need to work
Speaker 1: out if I'm still valued in this role and if
Speaker 1: you want me to stay. Richard Morles, for his part,
Speaker 1: issued a statement disputing the allegations and was asked about
Speaker 1: it in Question Time today. Have a look.
Speaker 8: Joe is a person that I have known therefore for
Speaker 8: a long time, and she is a wonderful person. I
Speaker 8: feel deeply sad that events have got to where they have.
Speaker 8: This is obviously very difficult. Now let me say that
Speaker 8: in way in which I've tried to manage this, I
Speaker 8: have done so with Joe's welfare in mind at every moment.
Speaker 8: This matter is now in the hands of lawyers, and
Speaker 8: of course that is absolutely Joe's right. But it does
Speaker 8: mean that it is very difficult for me to say
Speaker 8: anything more on this issue.
Speaker 1: Now. I bring all this up because, of course there's
Speaker 1: a bit of a sense of deja vous here, because
Speaker 1: recall when Scott Morrison was Prime Minister, Labor weaponized the
Speaker 1: Brittany Higgins case to create the idea that the Liberals
Speaker 1: had made Parliament an unsafe workspace, particularly for women. Here
Speaker 1: was Anthony Albanizi as Opposition leader when Sex Discrimination Commissioner
Speaker 1: Commissioner Kate Jenkins handed down her report on Gender in
Speaker 1: the Workplace at Parliament.
Speaker 4: The Jenkins Report was the culmination of a watershed year
Speaker 4: in Australian politics, society and gender relations. While the report
Speaker 4: concerns itself with this place, it is part of something
Speaker 4: bigger and overdue national reckoning. Around this time last year,
Speaker 4: women across the country came together to call out the
Speaker 4: inequalities of gender and power that permeate their lives each day. However,
Speaker 4: we cannot ask the people we represent to make change
Speaker 4: without also making real and lasting change in this very building.
Speaker 4: We must have put it simply walk the talk.
Speaker 1: Well. As I say, the allegations have yet to be tested,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of history on the Lever side
Speaker 1: as well, from the so called mean girls on down.
Speaker 1: Let's stay tuned to see whether Lever actually walks the talk.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into the big stories now with
Speaker 1: my first pals. Note Join to note by form of
Speaker 1: Victoria Liberal Party President Michael Kroger and from the Benzies
Speaker 1: Research Center Friya Leitch joining me here in the Van Cave.
Speaker 1: Both Yes, so much, well, so much to get into
Speaker 1: tonight and Fria. I want to return to those comments
Speaker 1: from Jason Claire I was talking about earlier. I'm going
Speaker 1: to start with you on this here. When you see
Speaker 1: a minister, a frontbencher in the government talk about you know,
Speaker 1: their constituents and a ceasefire and the situation in the
Speaker 1: Middle East like this, You've been really involved lately with
Speaker 1: a lot of the commemorations. Vigils are in Sydney, in
Speaker 1: Canberra for October seventh. How does that make you feel
Speaker 1: and what is your response? What would you like to
Speaker 1: tell Jason Claire about this?
Speaker 9: Well, firstly, it shows that the Labor government is completely
Speaker 9: divided on the issue of Israel and Palestine. They are
Speaker 9: taking a very unprincipled approach, probably because they have no principles,
Speaker 9: and it's frankly extremely frustrating and in and misses the
Speaker 9: whole point of this conflict, which you laid out before.
Speaker 2: If you want peace, the way.
Speaker 9: You achieve that is by removing the jihadest terror regime
Speaker 9: that is controlling Gaza. Every time there has been a
Speaker 9: conflict since two thousand and six and it has been
Speaker 9: resolved with a so called ceasefire, all it has done
Speaker 9: is given Harmas time to rebuild, regroup, get stronger, and
Speaker 9: now we're at a point where they've spent almost twenty
Speaker 9: years fortifying Gaza into a military complex with tunnels larger
Speaker 9: than the Sydney Trains network in a space smaller than
Speaker 9: the North Shore and the Eastern suburbs. And the whole
Speaker 9: point of October seven was to drag Israel into an
Speaker 9: almost unwinnable urban warfare combat situation so that they could
Speaker 9: turn the world against Israel. And people like Jason Clair
Speaker 9: are playing exactly into Harmasa's hands when they turn around
Speaker 9: and blame this whole thing on Israel instead of hamas.
Speaker 1: Well, and Michael Kroger, I mean, what do you think
Speaker 1: about all this? Because of course, you know what Israel
Speaker 1: is doing in Southern Lebanon has been you know, Joe
Speaker 1: Biden has said, you know, yep, you know that's appropriate.
Speaker 1: This also would fit within I think the guidelines of
Speaker 1: UN Resolution seventeen oh one, which ended the two thousand
Speaker 1: and six Lebanon warre and said yeah, there should be
Speaker 1: no has belond Southern Lebanon. But of course the UN
Speaker 1: couldn't manage this. How can labor not manage to get
Speaker 1: it's story straight. On this.
Speaker 10: Look, it's a terrible mess by the Labor Party who
Speaker 10: are just confused and not prepared to stand up for
Speaker 10: what's morally right. But on what Jason Claire said, there's
Speaker 10: a few things to remember. So five hundred years ago,
Speaker 10: a German philosopher was one of the first people to
Speaker 10: enunciate the principle that self defense in international law meant
Speaker 10: you were able to cross a border to attack the
Speaker 10: person attacking you. And two hundred years ago and what
Speaker 10: they call the Caroline principle was with situation where you
Speaker 10: were allowed to attack someone before they attacked you in
Speaker 10: order to stop them attacking you. Fast forward than a
Speaker 10: few years ago at the UN when and it also
Speaker 10: became a principle of law that you are able to
Speaker 10: go into a country to attack non state actors such
Speaker 10: as terrorist organizations. And so fast forward to Jason Clare's coins. So,
Speaker 10: under Article fifty one of the UN Charter, if your
Speaker 10: military action, if the expected concrete advantage of your military
Speaker 10: action is expected to exceed any harm done to any civilians,
Speaker 10: then it's lawful. So what is profoundly dishonest and ignorant
Speaker 10: by Jason Clare and we know why he's saying it.
Speaker 10: This guy is only trying for base. It's a race
Speaker 10: to the bottom, where all he's trying to do is
Speaker 10: win Muslim votes in his own seat to hold his seat.
Speaker 10: He says, Oh, Israeli bombing schools and hospitals. No, Jason, No, Jason.
Speaker 10: They are bombing Hamas terrorists who are on October seven
Speaker 10: beheaded in innocent people, murdered and raped people. They are
Speaker 10: bombing Hamas militants who are using innocent Palestinians as shields
Speaker 10: against international law. Jason, in schools and hospitals. That's what's
Speaker 10: actually happening, minister, So stop trying to pander to the
Speaker 10: lowest common denominator by letting people think Palestinians and Muslims
Speaker 10: in your electorate think, oh, is that what's happening? And
Speaker 10: the Jews just bombing children and sick people. No, Jason,
Speaker 10: that's what That's not what they're doing. And it's a
Speaker 10: disgrace that a minister of the Australian government would be
Speaker 10: so dishonest as to mislead his voters in that way.
Speaker 1: James, Yeah, no, Look, I think it's absolutely shocking because
Speaker 1: we'll stick with you for a second too, because you're
Speaker 1: in Melbourne right now, where there were these shocking scenes
Speaker 1: at the University of Melbourne. A professor's office was occupied.
Speaker 1: He had to have security, I guess, you know, take
Speaker 1: care of it, make sure he was all right. But
Speaker 1: if you look at this footage here, this goes far
Speaker 1: beyond any sort of oh well, you know, we care
Speaker 1: about house and civilians. This is like attacking professors for
Speaker 1: their Jewish district, for their stance on Israel. This feels
Speaker 1: like real nineteen thirties kind of level stuff. Michael. I
Speaker 1: feel like this, this gap in leadership here is allowing
Speaker 1: all of this stuff to rush in. Am I wrong
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 10: No, You're absolutely right. I mean the universities have disgraced
Speaker 10: themselves in this country. Sydney University, Melbourne University, Australian National University,
Speaker 10: Deacon University. I mean the vice chancellors and boards of
Speaker 10: these universities have disgraced themselves. The Ay and you, in particular,
Speaker 10: where's my friend Julie Bishop Pray?
Speaker 1: You've been involved with a couple of really big rallies
Speaker 1: on the other commemborative vigils in Canberra in Sydney, tell
Speaker 1: us about that. Ed, You know, where do you reckon ordinary, normal,
Speaker 1: mainstream Australians are on this, because I don't think they're
Speaker 1: down with this sort of hatred antisemitism, which you know
Speaker 1: feeds into a whole anti Western narrative too and frankly
Speaker 1: anti Australian narrative as well. Where do you think what
Speaker 1: is your set for having done these rallies and these
Speaker 1: vigils that Australia, mainstream Australia is right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: So the group we started is called Never Again is
Speaker 9: Now and we've put on rallies now in most of
Speaker 9: the major capital cities. We've had almost thirty thousand people
Speaker 9: attend these rallies. It's primarily led by a group of
Speaker 9: Christians and Jews who've come together to say we are
Speaker 9: going to stand as Australians united against this hate. And
Speaker 9: the response we've received has been overwhelming because you're exactly right,
Speaker 9: average Aussies, look at what is happening on our streets
Speaker 9: week after week, fifty two weeks of consecutive protesting. Even
Speaker 9: on October seven, on the day the greatest loss of
Speaker 9: Jewish lives s into the Holocaust, they had the audacity
Speaker 9: to take to the streets and protest for a free Palestine.
Speaker 2: It is disgusting, not.
Speaker 1: Just for a free Palestine, because we've also at some
Speaker 1: of the is rallies seen materials that would seem to
Speaker 1: be supporting out Fitzlake Hensport.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's exactly. The free Palestine thing
Speaker 9: is just a ruse. It's about destroying Israel and the
Speaker 9: Jewish state. But we have received overwhelming support from average Australians.
Speaker 9: But it's really clear that most Aussi's dislike these protests.
Speaker 9: They don't want people, frankly protesting for either side. They
Speaker 9: just think, leave your problems in the Middle East. This
Speaker 9: is a country where we're all equal. We should all
Speaker 9: tolerate one another. We should all subscribe to our basic
Speaker 9: Aussie values. And if you don't support the country you
Speaker 9: live in, well live in the country you support.
Speaker 2: It's that simple.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but I mean I think, you know, as
Speaker 1: I talked about before, I think an awful lot of
Speaker 1: the left has a big problem with Australian values. But
Speaker 1: that's another discussion for another day. Let's talk though about
Speaker 1: fought him up Payment, the new political kingmaker in Canberra,
Speaker 1: whose first twenty four hours as a party leader. Well,
Speaker 1: let's just say they haven't really gone to plan. I
Speaker 1: guess that's what happens when you have a big announcement
Speaker 1: for a new party without a single policy. And we
Speaker 1: saw that press conference earlier yesterday, but today or yesterday
Speaker 1: last night on seven thirty, she couldn't even give a
Speaker 1: straight answer on what she thought about October seventh. I
Speaker 1: can't believe this. I had watched like five times.
Speaker 6: Have a look today.
Speaker 11: In your view, were the actions of Humas on that
Speaker 11: day an act of terrorism or an act of resistance?
Speaker 2: I think that that question really not only ignores.
Speaker 12: The seventy five, seventy six years, but also reduces.
Speaker 2: The Palestinian plight.
Speaker 12: And we need to acknowledge that Palestinians and now the
Speaker 12: Lebanese community are hurting, but so are the Israeli communities.
Speaker 1: Frier I listen to that. I feel like Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: makes more sense than that moral equivalency word Salad I
Speaker 1: just heard. What did you make of that?
Speaker 9: There is no equivalent, absolutely no equivalents between what is
Speaker 9: happening to Palestinian people or people in Lebanon compared to
Speaker 9: what happened to Israeli's on October seven. On October seven,
Speaker 9: jihadis Terrace, up to six thousand of them invaded Israel
Speaker 9: by land, by sea, by air with the express intent
Speaker 9: of going into civilian communities and massacring, earning a live, raping,
Speaker 9: and kidnapping as many Jewish people as they possibly could.
Speaker 9: There is no possible comparison that you can draw between
Speaker 9: that and Israel's self defense and the fact that this
Speaker 9: is what she's decided to run on is it's insane.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, she doesn't have anything to run
Speaker 1: on because Michael, you know, she doesn't have any policies here.
Speaker 1: Tell me, though, you know, what are the consequences now
Speaker 1: of having these independent senators now starting their own parties
Speaker 1: and causing all sorts of dramas you know on the
Speaker 1: cross bench. It feels like this is just going to
Speaker 1: become an ungovernable rabble in the Upper House now.
Speaker 10: It is, And look, I wish the major parties would
Speaker 10: get together and pass an amendment which said, if you
Speaker 10: resign or expor you are expelled from the political party
Speaker 10: that you get elected upon whose ticket you get elected
Speaker 10: to the Senate, right all the reps. If you resign
Speaker 10: or leave that party, your seat is vacated. You know,
Speaker 10: we've had them, Labor had them, the Greens had them
Speaker 10: with that were that thought, et cetera. I mean these
Speaker 10: people who get elected, who get elected because they're on
Speaker 10: a ticket, not because Fatima payment is you know India
Speaker 10: a gandhy.
Speaker 1: They get it.
Speaker 10: It gives them years and years, at two hundred and
Speaker 10: fifty thousand dollars a year plus their staff, et cetera,
Speaker 10: et cetera, to launch their next bid. So you know
Speaker 10: it should be the case that if she resigns from
Speaker 10: the Labor paid and then we've had people on our
Speaker 10: side to and have them. Now, if you resign or
Speaker 10: you're expelled, you're out. There's a vacancy straight away. But
Speaker 10: I'd like to ask next time you're interviewing Senator Payment.
Speaker 10: By the way, could you ask if you were Jewish
Speaker 10: who supported the existence of the state of Israel, are
Speaker 10: you allowed to join her party? Because it's for all Australians,
Speaker 10: he says, And if you if you're gay, if you're
Speaker 10: a gay person, are you allowed to join her party?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Because as we know, in most in every Muslim country,
Speaker 10: being gay is illegal. And I remember I remember years
Speaker 10: ago President Akmadinnerjad when he was president of Iran. He
Speaker 10: was giving a speech at American University and people asked
Speaker 10: him about gay rights in Iran and to my astonishment,
Speaker 10: to my astonishment, James, he said, we don't have that
Speaker 10: problem in Iran because there are no gay people in Iran.
Speaker 2: And the question said what, none?
Speaker 10: None? He said no, he said they're Australia. He said,
Speaker 10: there are no gay people in the entirety of Iran.
Speaker 10: So perhaps the question doesn't arise for Senator Payment, Well,
Speaker 10: we do have gay people in Australian they're great Australians.
Speaker 10: They contribute enormously to our country. But can they join
Speaker 10: her party? Is my question?
Speaker 1: Well that's that's a great question. And I think you
Speaker 1: know I'm going to be hosting here another couple of
Speaker 1: nights here Michael for the great Man Paul. So I'm
Speaker 1: going to see if I can get her on the
Speaker 1: last year and have her right here, maybe get to
Speaker 1: get her in the man cave here. But before we
Speaker 1: go to a break, I want to talk to you
Speaker 1: guys about this is a pretty crazy story from the
Speaker 1: Australian newspaper today. The country's time judicial body has endorsed
Speaker 1: a new guidebook for judges that says judges should be
Speaker 1: trauma informed and when dealing with cases involving indigenous people,
Speaker 1: they should remember they are quote still dealing with the
Speaker 1: pervasive intergenerational effects of settler colonialism. Michael, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: isn't the entire basis of our legal system equality before
Speaker 1: the law. Why should race or intergenerational effects come into
Speaker 1: the picture.
Speaker 10: Well, there matters to be pleaded in mitigation when where
Speaker 10: there's a play by a barrister, someone's convicted. But I
Speaker 10: always understood the base of how law was that everyone's
Speaker 10: equal and judges make decisions on the basis of the
Speaker 10: facts and then apply the law, and in sentencing a
Speaker 10: barrister will then say you're on a mitigating factors such
Speaker 10: as they should be taken into account. That's the way
Speaker 10: our system has run for hundreds of years. To us,
Speaker 10: the judges in applying facts and law to take these
Speaker 10: things into account runs, it runs, runs contrary to the
Speaker 10: principle of justice that's been in this country, for in
Speaker 10: Britain for hundreds of years, which is the principle that
Speaker 10: every person is equal before the court.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, we really see how this identity politics.
Speaker 1: Thing you know we were talking about before, isn't just
Speaker 1: creepy our foreign policies creeping here on the bench in frayer.
Speaker 1: Judges are going to also be told to consider the
Speaker 1: quote here we go clear moral and ethical guidelines in
Speaker 1: the Islamic faith when ruling on cases with Muslim defendants. Now,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine how this would go had they said,
Speaker 1: you know, if a Catholic comes before you, you know,
Speaker 1: make sure you take into account of Vatican canon law
Speaker 1: or you know, Talmudic law where the Jewish defendant, this
Speaker 1: just seems bizarre to be your reac.
Speaker 9: If you applied this to any other group of people,
Speaker 9: especially a Christian, there would be complete outrage.
Speaker 2: Complete meltdown.
Speaker 9: But this is actually on a serious note, extremely concerning
Speaker 9: because the probably the most fundamental institution in a liberal
Speaker 9: democracy is our legal system and the rule of law,
Speaker 9: the guarantee that every citizen, no matter what their gender, race,
Speaker 9: religion is, will be treated equally before the law. Once
Speaker 9: you start eroding that principle, there is no guarantee of freedom,
Speaker 9: There becomes no guarantee of equality between citizens, and the
Speaker 9: very fundamentals of our society will start to crumble. So
Speaker 9: this is actually just opening the door wide open to
Speaker 9: civilizational decays, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now Michael, before we
Speaker 1: go to a break, winner or loser of the week,
Speaker 1: Michael Kroger.
Speaker 10: Loser in the week is Alan Yeasbek, who is the
Speaker 10: own of a restaurant Nomad and Rain and LaRue in Melbourne.
Speaker 10: He's the gentleman who equated being Jewish with being a Nazi.
Speaker 10: Who holding that sign at that rally in Sydney last weekend.
Speaker 10: What a disgusting act by him, and I hope his
Speaker 10: restaurants never see any patrons in them ever again. I
Speaker 10: will certainly never go to one of his again, and
Speaker 10: I hope everyone else.
Speaker 6: Refuses to do so as well.
Speaker 10: He's the loser of the week. The winner of the week, Well,
Speaker 10: I think it's Paul Murray because I've been saying it
Speaker 10: to Paul over the months.
Speaker 1: It's time to.
Speaker 10: Get his suitcases out, start packing. But I think it
Speaker 10: might be our time for Paul to buy a ticket
Speaker 10: to Washington for a big event in January. Not certain,
Speaker 10: just by standby ticket, Paul, But get ready.
Speaker 1: I think I know what you're talking about there now,
Speaker 1: Freya Leitch.
Speaker 9: Lose of the week definitely taxpayers who have to fund
Speaker 9: millions of dollars in police to police pro Palestinian rallies
Speaker 9: every week.
Speaker 1: Week in this country. The taxpayer is the loser every single.
Speaker 9: Well, that's all right, this week's a different so the
Speaker 9: taxpayer and the winner of the week. Apparently the Victorian
Speaker 9: Liberals are looking a little bit better at the moment,
Speaker 9: but we'll see if that last. If there's some internal division,
Speaker 9: but that's one for you to deal with.
Speaker 1: Michael, Well, we'll see about that. Hey, thank you both
Speaker 1: so much, Fria leased, Michael Kroger. Now, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: We're going to be back with a lot more to
Speaker 1: talk about, including that party that was going to do
Speaker 1: politics differently after today's bullying accusations. Do not go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Lotmore Pulmury Live after the break. Hey, welcome back to
Speaker 1: the program. James Morrow here filling in for Paul on
Speaker 1: Palmurray Live. Let's keep the debate rolling. Joining me now
Speaker 1: is PR Council's Christy mcsweety and also Lisa Goddard from
Speaker 1: a Donnie Media. Welcome to the two of you. Now
Speaker 1: let's start with one one of the major stories of
Speaker 1: the day, These weird, interesting allegations around Richard Barles's office
Speaker 1: and the severe scrutiny that's come after Joe Tarnowski, his
Speaker 1: chief of staff, raised and claimed that she was forced
Speaker 1: out of her job after she raised claims of bullying
Speaker 1: in the workplace. Take a little more of a look
Speaker 1: at what she had said today to the media.
Speaker 7: I have been plagued with nightmares, flashbacks, symptoms of depression
Speaker 7: and anxiety, panic attacks and suicidal thoughts. The way that
Speaker 7: I have been treated has been cowardly, cruel and completely unnecessary.
Speaker 1: Now let's take a little bit of what the Deputy
Speaker 1: Prime Minister said in Parliament today.
Speaker 8: Joe is a person that I have known therefore for
Speaker 8: a long time, and she is a wonderful person. I
Speaker 8: feel deeply sad that events have got to where they have.
Speaker 8: This is obviously very difficult. Now let me say that
Speaker 8: in the way in which I've tried to manage this,
Speaker 8: I have done so with Joe's welfare in mind at
Speaker 8: every moment. That this matter is now in the hands
Speaker 8: of lawyers, and of course that is absolutely Joe's right,
Speaker 8: but it does mean that it is very difficult for
Speaker 8: me to say anything more on this issue.
Speaker 1: Look, it's all still very vague here, but Christy Joe
Speaker 1: said also says that when she raised the issue of
Speaker 1: this behavior, whatever it was, with Richard Morrows, he allegedly,
Speaker 1: according to her, told her to find another job. Christopher Sweety,
Speaker 1: what do you make of this all mess?
Speaker 11: First of all, I find the rise of staff members
Speaker 11: becoming a story or feeling that the media is an
Speaker 11: appropriate outlet for them to talk about staff related issues
Speaker 11: is so far from the culture of Parliament from when
Speaker 11: I start that may be good.
Speaker 6: Or that may be bad.
Speaker 11: That parties are no longer left to manage these issues internally,
Speaker 11: and we have seen a number of coalition stuffers go
Speaker 11: to the media and our Labor Party staff as. I
Speaker 11: find that extraordinary. I would never do it, but it's
Speaker 11: everyone's choice. Like the Deputy Prime Minister said, I don't
Speaker 11: want to comment on this too much because we've seen
Speaker 11: over the past twelve months that people on television who
Speaker 11: make comment on allegations that happen in Parliament House fine
Speaker 11: themselves excised from television, So I don't want to be in.
Speaker 6: That position to the people involved.
Speaker 11: The other thing I will say is that these stories
Speaker 11: are often contested and so we wait, but it will
Speaker 11: be very interesting to see how it feeds into the
Speaker 11: new parliamentary culture, parliamentary culture organization that people are establishing.
Speaker 11: And don't forget, the Teals had a significant bullying allegation
Speaker 11: as well, so we've seen three parties now in the
Speaker 11: last twelve months.
Speaker 1: Well, this is the whole sort of thing about this,
Speaker 1: And I mean, you're absolutely right to say that these
Speaker 1: are untested allegations. They have to go through course, they
Speaker 1: have to go through whatever process and arbitration before we
Speaker 1: can really comment on them, because we don't know. We
Speaker 1: don't know what this is all about at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, at least the end of this day.
Speaker 1: But Lisa Christy brings up some really interesting points here,
Speaker 1: and one of them is that Labor made such a
Speaker 1: huge to do about the Liberals being the culture of
Speaker 1: misogyny and making Parliament this unsafe workplace with all these
Speaker 1: liberal bully boy misogynist types. And yet she rightly points out,
Speaker 1: you know, Labor's had their allegations around you know, mean
Speaker 1: girls and other stuff like that, the Teals have had
Speaker 1: their allegations of does this sort of at some point
Speaker 1: become kind of a mutual assured destruction sort of thing
Speaker 1: where you know you can no longer start to call
Speaker 1: one side or the other out for having a cultural
Speaker 1: problem when you know it seems like this now just
Speaker 1: becomes part of the furniture in terms of making these allegations.
Speaker 5: Well, James, the Jenkins report found that it was a
Speaker 5: problem sort of across Parliament House and as sad as
Speaker 5: that is, and you're right, you know, Albaneze stood up
Speaker 5: and said he would fix the culture and fix beck
Speaker 5: at a safe workplace. And clearly, as you say, there.
Speaker 2: Is a process underway.
Speaker 5: So we can't discuss in great detail you know, what
Speaker 5: has occurred here, But what we do know is that
Speaker 5: a woman has stood up today and made very serious
Speaker 5: allegations and spoken about real and traumatic impacts to her
Speaker 5: health and that has to be taken seriously. We have
Speaker 5: to wait and see what more Miles can say.
Speaker 2: But what struck me, and it's what's further.
Speaker 5: Christy said that when you look at the timing of this,
Speaker 5: So Miles stood up on the floor of Parliament today
Speaker 5: and said he's known about this for months, so has
Speaker 5: the Prime Minister, but she waited until today to.
Speaker 6: Bring this forward. So whatever is happening with this.
Speaker 5: Process clearly, is it happening fast enough or is it
Speaker 5: going in the right direction. So she's felt the need
Speaker 5: to stand up and speak to the media, but she's
Speaker 5: timed it deliberately. There seem to be a lot of
Speaker 5: strategy around why do it today. You've got Miles now
Speaker 5: standing up as acting Prime Minister today. Look, so no
Speaker 5: one else has picked up on it's World Mental Health Day.
Speaker 6: Now, we'll spend a.
Speaker 5: Third of our life at work. Work is meant to
Speaker 5: be a safe place. So she's really put that front
Speaker 5: on Saturday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a third of push. I spent only a third
Speaker 1: of my life at work.
Speaker 2: But you know that's a journal exactly.
Speaker 1: But I love her work anyway, So you know it's
Speaker 1: sus you can bring up this mental health point because
Speaker 1: there is so much talk about mental health around the place.
Speaker 1: It's not just in Parliament, it's also in schools and
Speaker 1: with young people and so on, and really interesting stuff
Speaker 1: happening today because leading US psychologists and author Jonathan Hate
Speaker 1: I've read his book. I don't know if anyone else has,
Speaker 1: but he has applauded Australia's tough stance on social media
Speaker 1: age limits and urged leaders in this country to keep going,
Speaker 1: saying that the United States should follow the lead of Australia.
Speaker 1: Speaking at a social media summit hosted by the New
Speaker 1: South Wales and South Australian governments, Hates said quote, if
Speaker 1: a consumer product is haring millions of kids, at some
Speaker 1: point the government should step in and say, how about
Speaker 1: you don't do that now. Australia needs you to lead,
Speaker 1: So thank you, Lisa Godard. What do you think should
Speaker 1: our leaders keep going with this idea of raising the
Speaker 1: age limit for social media, enforcing more restrictions on what
Speaker 1: kids can say? And do you know on these devices
Speaker 1: which they seem to spend all their time glued to?
Speaker 6: Well, I do, and it starts really young.
Speaker 5: Look at any cafe or restaurant you go to, You've
Speaker 5: got children sitting in prams or in highchairs with these
Speaker 5: devices in their hands. So I think the role of
Speaker 5: a parent plays a big part in this. But yes,
Speaker 5: big tech has a huge responsibility. And at the end
Speaker 5: of the day, if they can know enough about you
Speaker 5: to target you with the correct ads to sell you
Speaker 5: and support capitalism, then they've.
Speaker 6: Got the ability there to verify age.
Speaker 5: So I do think there needs to be some sort
Speaker 5: of protection in place there to limit the age that
Speaker 5: the kids are before they get on these devices and
Speaker 5: get onto social media. And case and point James with
Speaker 5: all of this happening at the summit and cuos to
Speaker 5: Chris Means for being a leader in this space. But
Speaker 5: today we had the parents of a young fourteen year
Speaker 5: old girl from Bunderberg who take it her own life
Speaker 5: because of large bullying on social media. So if that
Speaker 5: doesn't send it home as to how important it is
Speaker 5: to try to protect their kids from what is happening
Speaker 5: in social media, I don't know what does Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, Christian, I'm always sort of wary about any
Speaker 1: sort of restrictions of anything that might be limiting people's
Speaker 1: access to information and so on. But when you look
Speaker 1: at the way young people's brains are kind of rewired,
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Hate goes through this in his book The
Speaker 1: Anxious Mind, it really does seem like this is actually
Speaker 1: a dangerous product that needs more regulation.
Speaker 11: What do you think young people's brains, you're entirely right,
Speaker 11: are developing all the time, and they're not fully developed
Speaker 11: until they're in their mid twenties. And boys are slower
Speaker 11: to have that full brain maturity than girls are. And
Speaker 11: that's not being calling out one gender over another.
Speaker 6: That's actually true.
Speaker 11: And the information that children dissemine to have disseminated to
Speaker 11: them through their devices, and it's really harmful and we've
Speaker 11: heard some absolutely horrific stories.
Speaker 6: I actually work in this space.
Speaker 11: I'll declare that there are companies operating in Australia today
Speaker 11: that have this technology. They do it for forty million
Speaker 11: kids around the world. They can block kids accessing sites
Speaker 11: very similar to how your employer can block you you
Speaker 11: accessing websites on your work owned device. The issue is
Speaker 11: that business and enterprise customers have a deeper level of
Speaker 11: safety allocation given to them from the tech companies than
Speaker 11: parents do. So we've got a two tiered safety system.
Speaker 1: That's a great point.
Speaker 11: Default safety controls, these default safety controls that parents set
Speaker 11: in good faith when they buy a device for their child,
Speaker 11: they're really easy for kids to dismantle.
Speaker 6: And that's got to change too.
Speaker 11: How are they allowed to get away with those safety
Speaker 11: settings being so easy for children to dismantle?
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely right. I couldn't agree with more with both
Speaker 1: of you. Now we're going to take a little short break,
Speaker 1: but don't worry, the debate is not going to stop
Speaker 1: here because the Greens are continuing to embarrass themselves and Ethnye.
Speaker 1: Albaneza gets warned about the looming ute tax. Plus more
Speaker 1: winners and loser of the Week My Panely back here
Speaker 1: to discuss after the break. Welcome back to the program.
Speaker 1: James Borrow here filling in for Palmary Love here in
Speaker 1: the man cave with me tonight on our panel is
Speaker 1: the PR Councils Chris mcsweetey and Lisa Gonnard from a
Speaker 1: Donnie Media. Let's keep this chat going here because I
Speaker 1: love this story. It's a day that ends and why,
Speaker 1: which means there's been another embarrassing blunder from the Greens.
Speaker 1: The party has been forced to defend its vetting process
Speaker 1: after its act candidate Hareriri Rangarajan under a pseudonym compared
Speaker 1: al Kaeda Leader, Osalobin lead Leaden too. You guessed it,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. She wrote the post on substack and newsletter
Speaker 1: and blogging platform saying I've gone on to idolize several
Speaker 1: other martyrs Jesus Christ, Joan of arc Oslobin Laden etc.
Speaker 1: The Greens defense a creative writing exercise to explore the
Speaker 1: absurdity of dying for ideologies. Lisa, how embarrassing is this
Speaker 1: for the Greens?
Speaker 5: Oh, it's a piece of fiction, James. Don't you know
Speaker 5: we don't expect to see anything about fiction coming from
Speaker 5: the Greens at all. You don't need to look at
Speaker 5: their policies for a moment to think that what they're
Speaker 5: doing is creative writing.
Speaker 6: There, and she's following the lead.
Speaker 5: But look what it does it is exposed is how
Speaker 5: badly their vetting process is.
Speaker 6: And look, she's twenty, she was a university student.
Speaker 5: I don't think she has a snowballs chance of actually
Speaker 5: being elected. But what it does is show a real
Speaker 5: insight into the types of people the Greens are recruiting
Speaker 5: and in his candidates and what we're ending up with
Speaker 5: in parliaments across the country.
Speaker 1: Well not only that, though, Christy, the defense, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, you can excuse a twenty year old for
Speaker 1: writing something stupid if you went back to what I
Speaker 1: wrote in university, my god, you know you might find
Speaker 1: some real shockers there. But the defense that she was saying, oh, well,
Speaker 1: she's saying how absurd it is to die for or really,
Speaker 1: I guess believe in an ideology. Now, this is a
Speaker 1: political party that is supposed to have an idea at
Speaker 1: its core, at a political party that is part of
Speaker 1: the Australian process. Doesn't that defense in and of itself
Speaker 1: show that the Greens are an entirely on serious party
Speaker 1: and that it's really just a lot of undergraduate basket weaving.
Speaker 6: The reality is the Greens are on track.
Speaker 11: To increase their vote, which is a national vote of
Speaker 11: twelve percent at the last twenty twenty two election.
Speaker 6: That's tracking upwards.
Speaker 11: They're on track to become the king maker of the
Speaker 11: government and if you believe all the polls pointing to
Speaker 11: being the preferred partner of the Albanese government to form
Speaker 11: a minority government, that's a reality that Australians are looking at.
Speaker 11: That means that it's about time the media started giving
Speaker 11: equal scrutiny to the Greens on their vetting practices, on
Speaker 11: their candidates and on the it absolutely ridiculous defense to.
Speaker 6: That accident or created a party.
Speaker 11: If that was if that was a mainstream political party,
Speaker 11: there's no way that that would be a five minute
Speaker 11: So what story they are going to hold the balance
Speaker 11: of power in the federal government.
Speaker 6: These are the people that they will in which to
Speaker 6: do that.
Speaker 11: These are the people that vote in their party for
Speaker 11: what policies go forward.
Speaker 6: They deserve the scrutiny equal to that position.
Speaker 1: Hey, speaking of the scrutiny, let's just have a quick
Speaker 1: copy over of the US now where there is talk
Speaker 1: of another debate with Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. Donald
Speaker 1: Trump took the truth social say that it's late in
Speaker 1: the process, voting has already begun. There will be no rematch.
Speaker 1: This was after some talk that there would be a rematch.
Speaker 1: Christopher Sweetey, should there be very quickly a rematch between
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.
Speaker 11: I think Donald Trump would love a rematch. I think
Speaker 11: Kamala Harris thinks I've done. I've done it. I did
Speaker 11: a good job. I exposed that guy, and she did.
Speaker 11: She absolutely did. Look she's wishy, washy, she doesn't answer questions,
Speaker 11: but gosh, she's a very good presenter and convincing. And
Speaker 11: don't forget, there's a very low bar in politics all
Speaker 11: round here and in the United States. So she probably
Speaker 11: managed to convince more people than she was anticipating too.
Speaker 11: So he's done. She doesn't need to do it again.
Speaker 1: Lisa, see you jumping in here. What do you think
Speaker 1: another debate very quickly?
Speaker 5: No, I don't think he would, and I don't think
Speaker 5: he would. Why would he The polls are so tight
Speaker 5: at the moment. I don't think he needs to go
Speaker 5: on there and to risk it again. And she's doing
Speaker 5: it because I think she thinks that he's a major
Speaker 5: risk and she wants.
Speaker 1: The last say well, you know what I reckon. I
Speaker 1: think another debate would actually be a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: but that's just because I want more content for the
Speaker 1: US Report, which you can watch every Friday night here
Speaker 1: at AP. Christy and Lisa, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your time here on Paulbury Live. Really appreciate it. I'll
Speaker 1: be back on Sunday night. That's it for me tonight,
Speaker 1: but right now, stay tuned for the late debate.