WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 10 October 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:02.560 From the Sky News Center. 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.640 This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.040 Good evening and welcome to the program. James Borrow here 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.400 sitting in for Paul Murray Live tonight. Great to have 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.920 your company on what has turned out to be a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:21.880 very big day in Australian politics, including bombshell allegations at 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:27.520 bullying in the office of Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles. Hey, 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.320 how's that changing the parliamentary culture thing going for your 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.360 Prime minister. We'll have a chat about that in a moment, 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.320 And whether all the talk about fixing the parliamentary workplace 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.240 and making it a safe place for women labor was 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.159 on about in twenty twenty two was actually serious or 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.720 whether it was just a cudgel to use against Scott Morrison. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.280 But before we talk about the goings on in Richard 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:57.480 Marles's office, let's have a chat about another senior minister, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.920 Jason Claire. Well Claire, of course, is the Education Minister 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.600 and thought to be a future leadership contender in the 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.679 Labor Party, whose name is more than whispered these days, 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.480 as even diehard lefties writing in the pages of the 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.400 Sydney Morning Herald asked the question, what is the point 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:23.240 of the Albanese government now. Claire, who is personally a 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.960 lovely guy, also represents the Western Sydney seat of Blaxland, where, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.320 according to the twenty twenty one census, a large proportion 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:37.199 of the population is second generation Lebanese and thirty one 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.959 point seven percent of locals identify as Muslim, nearly ten 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:47.680 times proportion in Australia nationally. You see where this is going, right. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.680 I want to show you a bit of what Jason 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.360 Clare told the ABC this morning and then we can 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:55.520 have a little chat about it. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.560 Now, for most of Australia, they see a war on 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.520 the other side of the world community. The people that 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.160 we see images of dying on our TV screens are 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.839 often family or friends, and they're asking for a little 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.720 bit more compassion and a bit more understanding. They're asking 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.639 for the killing to stop, for the slaughter to stop, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.720 for the starvation of children to stop. They're asking for 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.440 a ceasefire and for the war to end. And I 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.720 don't think that's too much to ask. Every country has 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.000 a right to defend itself, but it also needs to 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:32.800 comply with international law. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:34.840 Is Israel complying with international law? 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:35.720 Well? 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.360 The bombing of schools and the bombing of hospitals I 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.280 think are not complying with international law. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.880 Now look, sure I get it war as hell, but 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.320 let's not forget who started this thing. And it is 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.880 true that an awful lot of civilians have lost their 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:59.040 lives of the last year, both Israelis who were deliberately 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:04.440 targeted by Hamas on October seven, which is again how 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.440 this whole thing started, as well as of course Palestinian 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.440 civilians who have been used as human shields by their 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.680 terrorist government. But do you see the problem with what 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.799 Claire is saying here? More broadly, he's taken up the 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.280 cause as a federal minister of his constituents. And you know, 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.239 I suppose that's fire as an MP. But what he's 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.880 doing as a minister is he's taking up and talking 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.400 in favor of a worldview that sees Israel as a 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.680 war criminal, the devil, and which wants a ceasefire so 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:45.560 that its terrorist enemies have a chance to regroup. Now, remember, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.960 a ceasefire only gives Hezbollah and all of our rad's 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.640 other proxies who he's everybody else, time to lick their wounds, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.360 re arm and then guess what start their war against 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:05.080 Israel at a time of their choosing, and the Almedezy 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:10.960 government's failure to provide moral clarity on this issue has 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.120 not just encouraged calls for ceasefires like what we just 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.120 heard from Jason Claire, but also I think a complete 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:24.040 breakdown of what is sometimes called social cohesion. But again, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:29.440 the problem with the progressive Albanese style of multiculturalism that 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.839 we saw here is that it seeks to destroy any 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.880 central anchor point for our society. I mean, that's what 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.440 the Voice which went down in a heap a year 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.680 ago next Monday was all about undermining the foundations of 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:49.680 our nation and casting modern post settlement Australia as something 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:54.240 we should all feel bad about. That's what the government's 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.360 Multicultural Framework Review, which was also all about keeping us 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.839 in our ethnic silos, even to the point of allowing 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.239 new migrants to take citizenship tests in their old back 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.479 home languages, Well that's what that was all about. What 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.360 it comes down to is dividing us for the sake 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:20.160 of identity politics. But as we now see increasingly disastrous results, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:27.760 because you see, you cannot have a successful multiculturalism unless 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.960 there is a central national idea on astray and dream 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:38.160 call it that everyone still looks to a positive, forward 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.960 looking vision for the country. And I don't think the 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.200 progressive left of which Albinizi is a part and which 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.919 breaks out in hives when it sees the flag, is 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:54.039 capable of managing this, which is then how we wind 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.680 up with the sort of might makes right multiculturalism instead 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:03.120 that we have now that sees everything from ugly protests 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.480 at the Opera House a year ago to university professor's 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:11.040 offices being occupied by protesters. I mean, look at this. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:16.960 Yesterday students tried to occupy a building at the University 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:23.680 of Western Sydney. They renamed it Hania's Building. Look at this, Hania. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.440 That's a reference to the Hamas terror chief who was 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:32.720 blown up, presumably by Israel in his guesthouse in Tehran 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.039 a couple of months ago. The banner, you'll notice if 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:41.359 you look closely, is also decorated with red triangles. Now 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.640 that's a symbol of the military wing of Hamas. You know, 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.200 the same people who slaughtered twelve hundred Jews a year ago. 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:54.080 This week the New South Wales Police happily we're having 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:54.960 none of it. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:57.240 Lay my students. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.040 He alone lay my suit. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:09.120 Alone, blame my students alone, blaeve my servants alone, plea. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:11.400 Alone. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.080 All of this occurs because we have a vacuum of 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:24.080 moral leadership in this country, as we saw with the 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.400 whole debacle over commemorating October seventh in parliament. This is 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:33.000 a government that cannot help but both sides this issue, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.760 which is a joke. Albaniasi Anthony Albanizi finds himself unable 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.200 to articulate a clear position when it comes to foreign policy, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.200 drifting away from our supposedly close ally of the United States. 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.920 On the question of whether or not it would be Hey, 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.200 who thinks this a good idea to eliminate Hesbelah from 0:07:55.280 --> 0:08:00.280 southern Lebanon? You reckon, Yeah, possibly not a bad idea, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.679 not necessarily the Albanesi government or Jason Clair. And while 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.720 also the government seems never being able to talk about 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:15.720 the scourge of anti Semitism without again mentioning is Lamophobia. Now, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.920 the fact that Anthony Albanizi, a left faction warrior who 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.640 helped found the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine, would be in 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.360 such a muddle is no surprise. Nor is the fact 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.400 that the government appears to have let the identity politics 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.280 of heavily Muslim seats in Western Sydy and Melbourne influence 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:42.160 their foreign policy and national security positions. Here's the funny thing, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.560 if you can call it funny. While Labor is in 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.839 a muddle and rushing through visas for gosins, even ones 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.880 with terroritize, the rest of the world sees the conflict 0:08:55.080 --> 0:09:00.160 very differently. Scot to Europe, where Italy and France have 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:05.840 been moving to deport extremists, including people like Pakistani Ibam 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:10.840 Zulfikar Khan, who had been preaching quote radical positions at 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.360 his mosque in Bologna, lovely town, Bologna, by the way. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.360 And in the Middle East well, as Michael Schubridge writes 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:24.040 in The Australian Today, there's an open secret among the 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.920 governments of the Middle East that's driving their respective approaches 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:33.959 to the war between Israel and Iran. They all welcome 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.320 a week in Iran and the dismantling of its terrorist 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:44.280 proxies almost as much as Israel does. Schubert analyzes the 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.800 situation with great clarity and concludes the Australian government needs 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:55.320 to end the quote increasingly empty calls for unilateral ceasefires 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.400 and tepid condemnation of the terrorism that Iran is now 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:05.920 so obviously cultivating and enabling across this intricate and essential 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.600 region of the world. Now, I've said it before, and 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.800 I'll say it again. If you want peace, if you're 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.480 serious about this, if you want the killing to stop, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:24.440 you need one thing, not a ceasefire. You need victory, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.200 not a bogus ceasefire, and then an endless repeat of 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:36.360 October seven or whatever other fresh horrors the terrorists have planned. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.280 Now let's get on to the other big story of 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.760 the day. Bullying allegations centered around the office of Deputy 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:51.000 Prime Minister Richard Marles. His chief of staff, laid them 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:56.080 out in a bombshell press conference today. According to Joe Tarnowski, 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.720 she was shut it aside by Marls and hasn't been 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.360 allowed back into the office four months after she raised 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.520 concerns about bullying behavior in the office. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.679 I have been plagued with nightmares, flashbacks, symptoms of depression 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:17.640 and anxiety, panic attacks, and suicidal thoughts. The way that 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:23.080 I have been treated has been cowardly, cruel and completely unnecessary. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.280 Now Samantha Maiden has obtained text messages between Tanaski and Morals, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.920 in which she complained, quote, I just need to work 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.400 out if I'm still valued in this role and if 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.760 you want me to stay. Richard Morles, for his part, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.760 issued a statement disputing the allegations and was asked about 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.600 it in Question Time today. Have a look. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.280 Joe is a person that I have known therefore for 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.679 a long time, and she is a wonderful person. I 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.960 feel deeply sad that events have got to where they have. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.760 This is obviously very difficult. Now let me say that 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.520 in way in which I've tried to manage this, I 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.880 have done so with Joe's welfare in mind at every moment. 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.000 This matter is now in the hands of lawyers, and 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.679 of course that is absolutely Joe's right. But it does 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.720 mean that it is very difficult for me to say 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:17.479 anything more on this issue. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.440 Now. I bring all this up because, of course there's 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.040 a bit of a sense of deja vous here, because 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:31.040 recall when Scott Morrison was Prime Minister, Labor weaponized the 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.520 Brittany Higgins case to create the idea that the Liberals 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:41.200 had made Parliament an unsafe workspace, particularly for women. Here 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:46.040 was Anthony Albanizi as Opposition leader when Sex Discrimination Commissioner 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.760 Commissioner Kate Jenkins handed down her report on Gender in 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:52.520 the Workplace at Parliament. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.040 The Jenkins Report was the culmination of a watershed year 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:03.520 in Australian politics, society and gender relations. While the report 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.319 concerns itself with this place, it is part of something 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:13.320 bigger and overdue national reckoning. Around this time last year, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.360 women across the country came together to call out the 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:23.360 inequalities of gender and power that permeate their lives each day. However, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.680 we cannot ask the people we represent to make change 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.319 without also making real and lasting change in this very building. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.599 We must have put it simply walk the talk. 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.360 Well. As I say, the allegations have yet to be tested, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.720 but there's a lot of history on the Lever side 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.920 as well, from the so called mean girls on down. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.720 Let's stay tuned to see whether Lever actually walks the talk. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.000 All right, let's get into the big stories now with 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.559 my first pals. Note Join to note by form of 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:04.280 Victoria Liberal Party President Michael Kroger and from the Benzies 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.840 Research Center Friya Leitch joining me here in the Van Cave. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.640 Both Yes, so much, well, so much to get into 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.920 tonight and Fria. I want to return to those comments 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.120 from Jason Claire I was talking about earlier. I'm going 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.720 to start with you on this here. When you see 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:25.000 a minister, a frontbencher in the government talk about you know, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.920 their constituents and a ceasefire and the situation in the 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.760 Middle East like this, You've been really involved lately with 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.360 a lot of the commemorations. Vigils are in Sydney, in 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.640 Canberra for October seventh. How does that make you feel 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.000 and what is your response? What would you like to 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:43.960 tell Jason Claire about this? 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.840 Well, firstly, it shows that the Labor government is completely 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.920 divided on the issue of Israel and Palestine. They are 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:56.000 taking a very unprincipled approach, probably because they have no principles, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.120 and it's frankly extremely frustrating and in and misses the 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.960 whole point of this conflict, which you laid out before. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.640 If you want peace, the way. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.120 You achieve that is by removing the jihadest terror regime 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.920 that is controlling Gaza. Every time there has been a 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.880 conflict since two thousand and six and it has been 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.280 resolved with a so called ceasefire, all it has done 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:25.440 is given Harmas time to rebuild, regroup, get stronger, and 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.160 now we're at a point where they've spent almost twenty 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:34.120 years fortifying Gaza into a military complex with tunnels larger 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.760 than the Sydney Trains network in a space smaller than 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.640 the North Shore and the Eastern suburbs. And the whole 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.360 point of October seven was to drag Israel into an 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:49.520 almost unwinnable urban warfare combat situation so that they could 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.920 turn the world against Israel. And people like Jason Clair 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.040 are playing exactly into Harmasa's hands when they turn around 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.440 and blame this whole thing on Israel instead of hamas. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.360 Well, and Michael Kroger, I mean, what do you think 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.640 about all this? Because of course, you know what Israel 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.800 is doing in Southern Lebanon has been you know, Joe 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.600 Biden has said, you know, yep, you know that's appropriate. 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.880 This also would fit within I think the guidelines of 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.200 UN Resolution seventeen oh one, which ended the two thousand 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.720 and six Lebanon warre and said yeah, there should be 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.480 no has belond Southern Lebanon. But of course the UN 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.080 couldn't manage this. How can labor not manage to get 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:27.440 it's story straight. On this. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.240 Look, it's a terrible mess by the Labor Party who 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:38.240 are just confused and not prepared to stand up for 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.840 what's morally right. But on what Jason Claire said, there's 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.000 a few things to remember. So five hundred years ago, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.040 a German philosopher was one of the first people to 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:52.840 enunciate the principle that self defense in international law meant 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.600 you were able to cross a border to attack the 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.800 person attacking you. And two hundred years ago and what 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.639 they call the Caroline principle was with situation where you 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.320 were allowed to attack someone before they attacked you in 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.119 order to stop them attacking you. Fast forward than a 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.600 few years ago at the UN when and it also 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:17.240 became a principle of law that you are able to 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.560 go into a country to attack non state actors such 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:26.399 as terrorist organizations. And so fast forward to Jason Clare's coins. So, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.840 under Article fifty one of the UN Charter, if your 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.680 military action, if the expected concrete advantage of your military 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:41.600 action is expected to exceed any harm done to any civilians, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.640 then it's lawful. So what is profoundly dishonest and ignorant 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.720 by Jason Clare and we know why he's saying it. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.160 This guy is only trying for base. It's a race 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.800 to the bottom, where all he's trying to do is 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.760 win Muslim votes in his own seat to hold his seat. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:06.000 He says, Oh, Israeli bombing schools and hospitals. No, Jason, No, Jason. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.240 They are bombing Hamas terrorists who are on October seven 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.119 beheaded in innocent people, murdered and raped people. They are 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:19.840 bombing Hamas militants who are using innocent Palestinians as shields 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.560 against international law. Jason, in schools and hospitals. That's what's 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.439 actually happening, minister, So stop trying to pander to the 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:33.480 lowest common denominator by letting people think Palestinians and Muslims 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.199 in your electorate think, oh, is that what's happening? And 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.879 the Jews just bombing children and sick people. No, Jason, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.800 that's what That's not what they're doing. And it's a 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.439 disgrace that a minister of the Australian government would be 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.920 so dishonest as to mislead his voters in that way. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.760 James, Yeah, no, Look, I think it's absolutely shocking because 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.760 we'll stick with you for a second too, because you're 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.439 in Melbourne right now, where there were these shocking scenes 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:03.720 at the University of Melbourne. A professor's office was occupied. 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.960 He had to have security, I guess, you know, take 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:07.679 care of it, make sure he was all right. But 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.840 if you look at this footage here, this goes far 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:12.960 beyond any sort of oh well, you know, we care 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:18.520 about house and civilians. This is like attacking professors for 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.639 their Jewish district, for their stance on Israel. This feels 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.679 like real nineteen thirties kind of level stuff. Michael. I 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.400 feel like this, this gap in leadership here is allowing 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.520 all of this stuff to rush in. Am I wrong 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:33.040 about that? 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.120 No, You're absolutely right. I mean the universities have disgraced 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.639 themselves in this country. Sydney University, Melbourne University, Australian National University, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:49.040 Deacon University. I mean the vice chancellors and boards of 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.480 these universities have disgraced themselves. The Ay and you, in particular, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.760 where's my friend Julie Bishop Pray? 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.240 You've been involved with a couple of really big rallies 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:04.600 on the other commemborative vigils in Canberra in Sydney, tell 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:09.520 us about that. Ed, You know, where do you reckon ordinary, normal, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.920 mainstream Australians are on this, because I don't think they're 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:17.040 down with this sort of hatred antisemitism, which you know 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.359 feeds into a whole anti Western narrative too and frankly 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.560 anti Australian narrative as well. Where do you think what 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.400 is your set for having done these rallies and these 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.840 vigils that Australia, mainstream Australia is right now? 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:32.200 Yeah. 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.919 So the group we started is called Never Again is 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.800 Now and we've put on rallies now in most of 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.320 the major capital cities. We've had almost thirty thousand people 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.560 attend these rallies. It's primarily led by a group of 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.000 Christians and Jews who've come together to say we are 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.840 going to stand as Australians united against this hate. And 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.680 the response we've received has been overwhelming because you're exactly right, 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.880 average Aussies, look at what is happening on our streets 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.840 week after week, fifty two weeks of consecutive protesting. Even 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.280 on October seven, on the day the greatest loss of 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.359 Jewish lives s into the Holocaust, they had the audacity 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.800 to take to the streets and protest for a free Palestine. 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:17.919 It is disgusting, not. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.359 Just for a free Palestine, because we've also at some 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.159 of the is rallies seen materials that would seem to 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:24.720 be supporting out Fitzlake Hensport. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.320 Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's exactly. The free Palestine thing 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.200 is just a ruse. It's about destroying Israel and the 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:36.400 Jewish state. But we have received overwhelming support from average Australians. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.600 But it's really clear that most Aussi's dislike these protests. 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.880 They don't want people, frankly protesting for either side. They 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.560 just think, leave your problems in the Middle East. This 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.120 is a country where we're all equal. We should all 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.080 tolerate one another. We should all subscribe to our basic 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.320 Aussie values. And if you don't support the country you 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:58.560 live in, well live in the country you support. 0:21:58.640 --> 0:21:59.399 It's that simple. 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:00.919 Well yeah, but I mean I think, you know, as 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:02.560 I talked about before, I think an awful lot of 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.240 the left has a big problem with Australian values. But 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.479 that's another discussion for another day. Let's talk though about 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.600 fought him up Payment, the new political kingmaker in Canberra, 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:19.080 whose first twenty four hours as a party leader. Well, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.919 let's just say they haven't really gone to plan. I 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.600 guess that's what happens when you have a big announcement 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.800 for a new party without a single policy. And we 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.119 saw that press conference earlier yesterday, but today or yesterday 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:39.239 last night on seven thirty, she couldn't even give a 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.960 straight answer on what she thought about October seventh. I 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.600 can't believe this. I had watched like five times. 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:49.320 Have a look today. 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.159 In your view, were the actions of Humas on that 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.800 day an act of terrorism or an act of resistance? 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:03.959 I think that that question really not only ignores. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:09.439 The seventy five, seventy six years, but also reduces. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:10.280 The Palestinian plight. 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.879 And we need to acknowledge that Palestinians and now the 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:19.280 Lebanese community are hurting, but so are the Israeli communities. 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:25.120 Frier I listen to that. I feel like Kamala Harris 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:30.159 makes more sense than that moral equivalency word Salad I 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:31.520 just heard. What did you make of that? 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:37.760 There is no equivalent, absolutely no equivalents between what is 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:43.159 happening to Palestinian people or people in Lebanon compared to 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.680 what happened to Israeli's on October seven. On October seven, 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.080 jihadis Terrace, up to six thousand of them invaded Israel 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.520 by land, by sea, by air with the express intent 0:23:55.960 --> 0:24:01.080 of going into civilian communities and massacring, earning a live, raping, 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:05.679 and kidnapping as many Jewish people as they possibly could. 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:10.520 There is no possible comparison that you can draw between 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.520 that and Israel's self defense and the fact that this 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.320 is what she's decided to run on is it's insane. 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.800 Well yeah, I mean, she doesn't have anything to run 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:24.240 on because Michael, you know, she doesn't have any policies here. 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.720 Tell me, though, you know, what are the consequences now 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.400 of having these independent senators now starting their own parties 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.720 and causing all sorts of dramas you know on the 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:35.639 cross bench. It feels like this is just going to 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.120 become an ungovernable rabble in the Upper House now. 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:44.280 It is, And look, I wish the major parties would 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.919 get together and pass an amendment which said, if you 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.080 resign or expor you are expelled from the political party 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:53.040 that you get elected upon whose ticket you get elected 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.880 to the Senate, right all the reps. If you resign 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.600 or leave that party, your seat is vacated. You know, 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.240 we've had them, Labor had them, the Greens had them 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:05.640 with that were that thought, et cetera. I mean these 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:09.280 people who get elected, who get elected because they're on 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:13.639 a ticket, not because Fatima payment is you know India 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:14.159 a gandhy. 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:15.399 They get it. 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:17.480 It gives them years and years, at two hundred and 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:19.800 fifty thousand dollars a year plus their staff, et cetera, 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:23.359 et cetera, to launch their next bid. So you know 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:26.520 it should be the case that if she resigns from 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.119 the Labor paid and then we've had people on our 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.240 side to and have them. Now, if you resign or 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:32.840 you're expelled, you're out. There's a vacancy straight away. But 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:36.240 I'd like to ask next time you're interviewing Senator Payment. 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.560 By the way, could you ask if you were Jewish 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.200 who supported the existence of the state of Israel, are 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.480 you allowed to join her party? Because it's for all Australians, 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:53.240 he says, And if you if you're gay, if you're 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.680 a gay person, are you allowed to join her party? 0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:56.639 Yeah? 0:25:56.680 --> 0:26:01.000 Because as we know, in most in every Muslim country, 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:05.520 being gay is illegal. And I remember I remember years 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.000 ago President Akmadinnerjad when he was president of Iran. He 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:11.640