1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 2: This is better than yesterday, making it better every episode 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 2: every weeks is twenty thirteen. My Handstrashiki is very thanks 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: a bigger part of it. Twenty thirteen is a long 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: time ago. Now it is well today. If you're listening 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: to this on the day it was. 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Released, twenty twenty five. 8 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: New Year's Day, my gosh, but look, it's another day, 9 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: isn't it. It's another day. Attach a lot of significance 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: to the New Year's Day, there, don't we? Sometimes the 11 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: some R words involved a lot of thoughts and feelings 12 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: and words that sound like resolution or great redirection. Refocus 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: whether you're listening to this on January the first or not. 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: We do have a couple of highlights from twenty twenty four. 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: To I don't know. Keep us focused on things that. 16 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: People tend to think about it this time of year, 17 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: things that people inspire to improve on. Meggie Palmer has 18 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 2: some down to earth and concrete advice on getting that 19 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: pay rise. In twenty twenty five. Taron Bromfitt is going 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: to bring along some ideas about how to not or 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: with your body, essentially putting it into any other shape 22 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: that we think will make us happier and how to 23 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: rather better enjoy the shape that it is now and 24 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: to kick us off Ali Abdaal, who's a productivity guru. 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: He's a superstar on YouTube with a secret element to 26 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: being more productive that I did not expect. 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 3: The biggest thing is there's this idea of play. You know, 28 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: one of our kids, everything is play. We do things 29 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: for their own sake, We explore, we take risks, exploring 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 3: and taking risks as part of growing up. But eventually, 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 3: you know, we get into the school system and we 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: get told that you know, you're allocated the fifteen minutes 33 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: at ten o'clock to play and fifteen minutes at lunchtime 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: to play, and after school you've got to make sure 35 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: you do a few hours of schoolwork before you are 36 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: then allowed to play. And even then, in a lot 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: of different countries and places, like parents will be somewhat 38 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: overprotective of their children playing and say no, like there's 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 3: all these risks associated with the outdoors, while not realizing that, like, 40 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: you know, there's way more there's way more risks online 41 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: than there are than there are outdoors. If we can 42 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 3: kind of find a way to remember what that exploration 43 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: and what that play was like when we were kids 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: and try and find a little bit more of that 45 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: sense when we're adults. That seems to hold the key 46 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 3: to a lot a lot of productivity and a lot 47 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: of creativity. So the first chapter of my book is 48 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: literally titled to Play, and it's about how play is 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: the most underrated productivity strategy out there. Where you know, 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: there's interviews with Nobel Prize winners and athletes and sort 51 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: of super successful CEOs and stuff, and you know, often 52 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: one thing that they cite is that they find is 53 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 3: that they treat their work like play. They find a 54 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 3: way to approach it in a way that's fun, that's enjoyable. 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: And I was chatting to this executive coach a few 56 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: weeks ago. We were at this retreat, and this guy 57 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: is the coach to some of Silicon Valley's like top CEOs. 58 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: He couldn't tell me who his clients were, but he said, 59 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: you know, you would probably recognize all of them. And 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: he said one of his major mantras is that enjoyment 61 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: is efficiency. If you're enjoying your work, you are going 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 3: to be more efficient at it, which is really just 63 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: the whole thesis of my book. 64 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: Feel good productivity. 65 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: If you can find a way to make your work 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: feel good, if you can approach it in that spirit 67 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: of play, you're naturally going to be more productive. 68 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 4: You're going to be more creative, you're going to be 69 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 4: less stressed. 70 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 3: Enjoyment is efficiency, and so one thing that this guy 71 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: names Joe Hudson, one thing he says to his team 72 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 3: members is I don't want you to try and do 73 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: it right. I just want you to try and enjoy yourself. 74 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: And I guarantee that if you're just trying to enjoy yourself, 75 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: you will do a better job than if you were 76 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 3: trying to do a better job. So that's something that 77 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: I've written. 78 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 4: That in the book. 79 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: I have written a book about it, and I still 80 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: struggle with this idea. But whenever I find myself doing 81 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: something that feels hard or that feels like it's a 82 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: lot of work, I'll ask myself that question, what would 83 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: this look like if. 84 00:03:59,200 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: It were fun? 85 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: How might I approached this in the spirit of play? 86 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: And then generally it becomes more fun and I also 87 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 3: become more productive and my output is better for having 88 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: asked myself that question. 89 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: Can I ask you for a real world example, like 90 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: something something that people would probably avoid that they're dragged 91 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: if I don't know, like putting it doing your taxes 92 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: all right, unless you can get an account to do 93 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: it for you. You're sitting there, you're battling a website. 94 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: It sucks, You're going through shoe boxes of invoices. It's normal, 95 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 2: it's not fun. Takes away forever. 96 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: What's a way? 97 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 2: And you know that there's penalties if you get it wrong, 98 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: you know, so it's frightening at the same time. So 99 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: what are some ways that you know to ask yourself 100 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: that question? What would this look like if it was fun? Like, 101 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: could you give us an idea of what that might be? Yeah, 102 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: So people always. 103 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: Or with land on this example of like, oh you 104 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: know what if not everything can be fun? You know, 105 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: filing my taxes isn't fun, doing admint isn't fun. 106 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 4: Whatever about that? 107 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 3: Well, what I would say to that is, yes, not 108 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: everything can be one hundred percent fund But you can 109 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 3: always find a way to make anything, like literally anything, 110 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: even filing the taxes, you can find a way to 111 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 3: make it five to ten percent more enjoyable. So in 112 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: my case, you know, yesterday I had to do the 113 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 3: equivalent of filing my taxes. It was like having to 114 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 3: figure out some sort of financial disclosure to figure out 115 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: some sort of tax situation for the business. That's not 116 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: particularly fun. How did I find a way to make 117 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 3: it fun? Well, you know, I decided, Okay, this is 118 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 3: a boring thing. If this were fun, I wouldn't be 119 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: doing it at my desk. So I took my laptop 120 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: and I went down to the local coffee shop, which 121 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: is just like a couple of. 122 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 4: Minutes walk from me, and I ordered. 123 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: Myself a nice flat white, and I was like, you 124 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: know what, I'd rather be in a more cozy atmosphere 125 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: while I'm doing this like tax situation rather than sitting 126 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: at my desk. I had my headphones with me and 127 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: I was playing some upbeat music. I think I was 128 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: playing some like what was it? Some take that in Westlife, 129 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 3: just just for fun because it sort of makes the 130 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 3: thing feel a little bit better. I had a friend 131 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 3: with me because I had a couple of team members 132 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: and friends coworking at my house. So one of my 133 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: team members staff was also one of my friends. I said, hey, 134 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:01,559 Speaker 3: do you want to come over to the coffee shop 135 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: and he had to take a call, so he took 136 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: a call from there, and so it's fairly basic stuff. 137 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: But anyone can ask themselves the question of, like, genuinely, 138 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: if this thing were fun or even just ten percent 139 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 3: more fun, what might that look like for me? 140 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 4: I think music is part of it. I think change 141 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 4: of scenery. 142 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 3: Sometimes if a meeting is boring, I'll find it easier 143 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: to just sort of walk around and take it as 144 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: a walking meeting, appreciate the night. 145 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 4: But that not everyone can do that. 146 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 3: So what my whole shtick in the book and my 147 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: kind of philosophy for productivity is I kind of think 148 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 3: of productivity is a. 149 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: Very personal thing. 150 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: Really, it's about running experiments and seeing what works for us. 151 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: So for me, one thing that makes everything way more 152 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 3: fun is just having film music from like The Lord 153 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 3: of the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever 154 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: in the background. 155 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: It just makes it more fun. 156 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: What makes things more fun is having someone to work with, 157 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: ideally in person but even just online works. Fac Back 158 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: in the pandemic, I used to join this London writer 159 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: salon where you would get on a zoom call four 160 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 3: times a day with a few hundred writers from all 161 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 3: around the world, and being on a zoom call with 162 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: writers from all around the world while everyone is doing 163 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: their writing just makes it a little bit, you know, 164 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 3: a little bit more fun. We've created a product that 165 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: does this productivity lab where we get people in to 166 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 3: do focus sessions with other people. We do like facilitated 167 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: weekly reflections with other people on a zoom call. That 168 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: just makes it more fun. One thing that makes things 169 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: more fun is taking things a little bit less seriously. 170 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 4: So even though this. 171 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 3: Tax situation is like, oh, you know, it's kind of 172 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: important that I fill out this financial disclosure because I 173 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: have to get it right because if I get it wrong, 174 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: I might get arrested for fraud or you know, all 175 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: of this stuff. Even so, it's still worth approaching it 176 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: with an attitude of ah, it's fine, it's sincere rather 177 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: than serious. Yeah, I'm going to try my best with this, 178 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 3: but I'm not gonna over worry about it, because the 179 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: additional worry that I add, the additional pressure I add 180 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: to myself, does not actually improve my performance on the task. 181 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: It just makes me more stressed. And chronic stress is 182 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: generally bad for your life and bad for your health. 183 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: I really like that. 184 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 2: There's another there's another thing that you talk about, which 185 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: unless you've learned it. I was lucky enough to be 186 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 2: taught this about ten or twelve years ago. The idea 187 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: of building systems into your life rather than having to 188 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: rely on I'll remember to do that. Tell me if 189 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: you will, for people who have never thought about what 190 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: do you mean, I'll build a system into my life? 191 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: What can that look like? And how can that? You know? 192 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: How can that make someone become more productive? 193 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 3: One way that I like to think of myself as 194 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: it relates to productivity is I am just a machine, 195 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 3: and a machine not in the not in the negative way, 196 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: but I'm just I'm just a computer, and I will 197 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 3: do whatever the program is designed for and whatever whatever 198 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 3: program is written and as part of the machine. So if, 199 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 3: for example, I find myself procrastinating from a task, I 200 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: don't think that. You know, if a computer was slow 201 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: at doing something or took a while to start up, 202 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 3: you wouldn't blame the computer. 203 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 4: You wouldn't say this. 204 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: Computer has no self worth, this computer has a bit 205 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: of a waste of space, Like why why is it procrastinating. 206 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: On this task? 207 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: It would say, Well, it's either a hardware problem or 208 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: a software problem. Either the computer is simply not fast 209 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: enough to cope with this task, which is these days 210 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 3: are not usually the case. That's a hardware problem or 211 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: it's a software problem. The way the system was programmed 212 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 3: makes this task particularly slow. And given that I was 213 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 3: into programming and stuff, I would always like when you're 214 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: debugging software, you're kind of going through and thinking, what 215 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: is the tweak I can make to the system that's 216 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 3: going to make this work more, that's going to make 217 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 3: this work more effectively. 218 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 4: So in terms of systems for our own. 219 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 3: Life, generally, if we're struggling with something, it's either a 220 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 3: hardware problem or a software problem. The hardware problems are 221 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 3: have I had enough sleep? Am I eating reasonably well? 222 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: Am I exercising every day? If those things are sorted, 223 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 3: a lot of productivity problems will just take care of themselves. 224 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 3: You know, when I have four hours of sleep rather 225 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 3: than eight hours asleep, I have a higher tendency to 226 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: procrastinate because I have a hardware issue. But then we've 227 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 3: got software issues, We've got things like you know, the 228 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 3: other day I realized that, you know, I was getting 229 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 3: to bed quite late, like midnight, one am, and so 230 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 3: instead of thinking, oh, I just need to get to 231 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: bed on time. I was like, Okay, what is happening 232 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 3: in my life that's causing me to go to bed 233 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: at midnight? Then I thought back to the last two 234 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 3: weeks and I realized, well, I intend to go to 235 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: bed at ten pm. But then as I'm getting ready 236 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: for bed and I'm on the toilet, I start scrolling 237 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: on my phone and I go on YouTube and I 238 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: end up watching YouTube videos until midnight or one am. Huh, 239 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 3: that's interesting. Now at this point, I could tell myself, God, 240 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 3: I'm such an idiot. Why do I watch these YouTube videos? 241 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 3: Why don't I have self discipline? But I'm like, no, 242 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: I'm a machine. I'm a system, and the system is 243 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: designed to sort of seek out YouTube videos when it 244 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: gets to ten pm. And so I thought, okay, how 245 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: do I stop that from happening? And I downloaded an 246 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 3: app called opal Opa l if anyone wants to download it, 247 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 3: which just blocks YouTube on my phone after night nine pm. 248 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 3: So it blocks YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, and read it. And 249 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: it's like, weirdly hard to circumvent that block using this app. 250 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: So now it gets to ten pm, I say, on 251 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: the toilet, I scroll to YouTube, and I'm like, oh, 252 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: it's great out like I can't even I can't actually 253 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: go on the YouTube app. And then I think, well, okay, cool, 254 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: I might as well just you know, get ready for 255 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 3: bed and read a book or something like that, and 256 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: then I sleep on time. And so at every stage 257 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: of my day whenever I feel like I'm not being productive, 258 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 3: and by productive I mean I'm not using my time 259 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 3: in a way that's actually intentional, Like I don't intend 260 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: to spend three hours on YouTube. I just happened to 261 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 3: spend three hours on YouTube. That's an unintentional use of time. 262 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: I'll figure I'll try and figure out what is a 263 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: system I can add to my life, or what is 264 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: something I can remove that would make this way easier 265 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: to do, rather than flagellating myself or beating myself. 266 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: Up for not being sufficiently disciplined. 267 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: I do love the message that getting things done can 268 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: be easy, but it also can be fun. 269 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: We don't need blood, sweat and tears. We keep the 270 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: whole thing body fluid free, speaking around sweat. 271 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: The mere thought of asking for a pay rise, no 272 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: matter how much you know you deserve it or whatever, 273 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: the thought of actually having that conversation might be enough 274 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: to get your little at least Dewey in the. 275 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: Palm, you know, mums spaghetti. 276 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: It might make you feel even like you've just done 277 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: a brisk five k for a five k rice. 278 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: But no, I don't know what I'm talking about. 279 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: But what if you knew exactly how to have the 280 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: best conversation to get yourself a. 281 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: Pay rise, but you knew how to do that before 282 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: you eve walked in there. 283 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: Well, this is exactly what Meggie Palmer gave us in 284 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: the conversation that we had last year, And it turns 285 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: out that you getting more money might be a good 286 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: deal for your employer as well. 287 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 5: Unfortunately, we can't pay every one a million dollars or 288 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 5: not yet maybe one now fingers crossed. However, we do 289 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 5: want to pay people fairly so that firstly they feel 290 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 5: excited and stokes to work hard for us, and secondly 291 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 5: so that they're not like twenty four seven on the 292 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 5: side looking for something else, because actually don't. We don't 293 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 5: want that either. So I think often we think, oh, 294 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 5: the you know, the big boss or the big company, 295 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 5: they've got all this power. Okay, sure they have the 296 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 5: power to give you a job or not equally they're 297 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 5: not a charity, Like, they're not hiring you to be nice. 298 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 5: They're hiring you because you need someone to write the 299 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 5: intros for this podcast, you need someone to book the guests, 300 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 5: you need someone to do the audio mix. Like there's 301 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 5: a reason for that because if they don't do that, 302 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 5: your sponsors don't pay you, et cetera, et cetera. So 303 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 5: they have a value as well. So what I would 304 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 5: say is for everyone listening, like, you have a value 305 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 5: that you are contributing, and it's your job to understand 306 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 5: what is that value, specifically what does that look like. 307 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 5: And that's a big part of the reason why we 308 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 5: built the pep Talk RAPP is so that people can 309 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 5: start to quantify that. Like it's not enough to say 310 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 5: I'm a great you know, audio mixer, I'm a great 311 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 5: sales person. Like Okay, that's nice and that's cute, and 312 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 5: that's good. But it's more powerful if you say, you know, 313 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 5: I'm a really impressive salesperson. I increase revenue seventeen percent 314 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 5: year on year at my previous company. I started an 315 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 5: intern program, and you know, I also found a way 316 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 5: to get a local restaurant to sponsor a dinner every 317 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 5: week to take clients out, saving the company seven hundred 318 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 5: dollars a month. If you can quantify it in that 319 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 5: granular detail, all of a sudden, we understand your value. 320 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 5: We understand the dollars and cents at how it's going 321 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 5: to impact our bottom line. And so it's a much 322 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 5: easier conversation. Right. 323 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: One of the most powerful things I ever learned about negotiation. 324 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: There's some Aussie bloke working for a mining company in US. Actually, yeah, 325 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: he said, always ask, always ask for stuff that it 326 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: is nothing for them to give. And he talked about 327 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: this particular mining company he worked for. They were big 328 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: and they had man Their billwith quantas would have been 329 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: ten twelve million a year. Who So, because he's in Utah, 330 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: he said, I want two business class return tickets from 331 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: Salt Lax City to Perth twice a year. They went, oh, yeah, 332 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: what else? Because it's fucking nothing for them to ticket. 333 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 5: But that's twenty thirty k for him value pre to 334 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 5: like close tax for his. 335 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: Family, right, yeah, huge. 336 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, that mental gymnastics that he had done ahead of 337 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 5: time for the negotiation. That's the key, right, So you 338 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 5: should be asking about your paying compensation every single year 339 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 5: They might not say yes every single year, but it 340 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 5: is very reasonable for you to bring it up and 341 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 5: have like a really candid conversation in as a respectful way 342 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 5: every year, of course, as long as you're bringing receipts 343 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 5: as long as I can. Here is why, because of 344 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 5: look at these awards, look at this value, et cetera. 345 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 5: And also you know, obviously right now with the economy 346 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 5: hit and miss for some people right now, Okay, you're 347 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 5: not necessarily going to get the pay increases that you 348 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 5: would love. What else can you get? To your point? 349 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 5: Maybe it's it's flights? Can you work from home on 350 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 5: a Friday? Can you start at eleven am on the 351 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 5: Tuesday because you want to learn the cello? Can you 352 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 5: get free parking? Would they be happy to, you know, 353 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 5: reimburse you for your twenty dollars a week parking. I've 354 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 5: got clients who get their companies to pay for their 355 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 5: pet insurance. Will they pay for an executive coach? You know, 356 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 5: for you to join a member like the Peptoga Community 357 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 5: or like a certain higher educational institution program or something 358 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 5: like that. Like what else is possible even when you're 359 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 5: starting a job. One thing that I find a lot 360 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 5: of people don't know sure, is that like you can actually, yes, 361 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 5: you can negotiate your salary. But also a lot of 362 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 5: companies are quite happy to pay a signing bonus because 363 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 5: it comes off the books once and that's it. It's 364 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 5: never a recurring thing. So thinking about those things ahead 365 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 5: of time as well can actually add like tens of 366 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 5: thousands of dollars to your pocket. But they've actually got 367 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 5: a pool of money where they're happy to pay that, 368 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 5: you know. 369 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: So you know, if the spreadsheets are big enough, there's 370 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: the wages. 371 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 5: Exactly an experience it one bucket, yeah. 372 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: But then there's also over here they've got well, the 373 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: wages is pretty empty, but as far as professional development, 374 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: there's actually some budget there totally. 375 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 5: So you're into a public speaking course, you want to whatever, 376 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 5: you know, Like the other thing I used to negotiate 377 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 5: back when I was a journey We got pretty good 378 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 5: annual leave, but I one year I asked for a 379 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 5: raise and they gave me something but not everything, And 380 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 5: I was like, look, how about you and I just 381 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 5: have a wink wink, nudge nudge agreement that I'll also 382 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 5: take an extra ten days of vacation over Christmas, and 383 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 5: we just won't put it on the books and everyone's 384 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 5: a winner, and they're like, yeah, it's totally fine. Who cares? 385 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: So, like, I don't know negotiating with it America? Are 386 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 2: you negotiating with an American company? 387 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 5: This was an Australian one. Actually, Wow, So I was 388 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 5: being greedy because I've already got pretty good, pretty good holidays. 389 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 6: But they were like, yeah, okay whatever, like sure you know, 390 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 6: and so like that has value in and of itself, right, 391 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 6: and so thinking about the non monetary benefits, but you 392 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 6: can't expect them to like just give it to you 393 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 6: on a platter. 394 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 5: I mean, fingers crossed. You have an amazing boss who 395 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 5: does that. But the reality is, like bosses and leaders, 396 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 5: you know, they've got sick kids, they're getting divorced, they've 397 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 5: got Netflix shows to watch. There's a lot happening. And 398 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 5: so if you can come to the table super prepared 399 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 5: and make it easy for them to go, oh yeah, 400 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 5: tick tick tick, sure, happy days, let's keep going, then 401 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 5: it's sort of a no brainer for them. 402 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 2: The I think the other thing that perhaps employees don't 403 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: don't understand often is the longer you there, the value 404 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: that you have. As you mentioned, earlier in the institutional knowledge. 405 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: That is, they haven't just invested in you with the 406 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: wages and whatever professional development and parking and pen insurance 407 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: they have. The more the longer you're there, the more 408 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: amount of teeth, the gear that you are in the 409 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: machine of the business is all right, and you become 410 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: more and more integral to everything working. I mean, just 411 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: when you come back from your ten days break, when 412 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: you hear people go, fuck, I'm glad you're back, it's 413 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: because when you're not there, shit falls apart totally, and 414 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 2: it is your employee will know that. If they don't 415 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 2: know that, you need to show them that. You need 416 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: to literally I have. It's funny you mentioned earlier, bring 417 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: the receipts. When we go into a radio negotiation. I've 418 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: negotiated a couple of my big radio deals by myself. 419 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to go to one particular. Yeah, yeah, I 420 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: had a negotiation coach. It was amazing. Yeah, it was 421 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 2: real cool. It's actually like connects with them. He's an 422 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 2: answer there. He's fucking I met him when I was 423 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: at business school. He's cool, he's coolers ship and I 424 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 2: remember I literally walked into it with magazine covers. 425 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 5: Oh, this is receipts like iru. 426 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, like. 427 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: Twenty twenty, twenty years ago when I was going for this, 428 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: when I was going for this radio job, going you're 429 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: not going to pay me that because this, this, this, this, this, 430 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: And I was terrified and I shouted out double, the 431 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: biggest number I could think of, and he said yes, 432 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: like that and that. In a moment after he said yes, 433 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 2: I was like, fuck, are he ad more? 434 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 5: As soon as the number came out of your mouth? 435 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 5: Do you hate that when that happens? I'm sure it 436 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 5: was that. 437 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was another another one I did and 438 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: this is it, you know, to be fairy and I 439 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 2: I did a lot more homework the next time I 440 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: did one for a similar company. I did heaps of 441 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 2: homework around what's the what's the revenue of the business, 442 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: how much do they charge for advertising? How much revenue 443 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: is the show I'm working on actually bringing in? What 444 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: is my role in that show? What percentage of the 445 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: overall you know, P and L of that show? 446 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: Do I represent? What is it without me? Yep? 447 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: And then I this time around, I put the big, 448 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: big figure in and they said yes again, So I 449 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: got my. 450 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 5: But it's so true but that's the thing. It's like 451 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 5: it's research is so boring, preparation is so boring. Like 452 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 5: I wish I could say, like here's a magic salary pill, 453 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 5: take that and you'll be sweet, Like it's it's it's 454 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 5: you've got to just like put in the work. If 455 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 5: you're going in for a five hundred dollars a year 456 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 5: pay rise, I'm pretty sure everyone listening will be fine, 457 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 5: good luck, you'll be great. But if you're going in, 458 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 5: if you want an extra three k, if you want 459 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 5: extra thirteen grand, thirty fifty, you know, I've had a 460 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 5: couple of clients get hut like six figure pay increases 461 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 5: in one year, Like it's it's insane. If you want that, 462 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 5: you've got to do the work, Like to your point, 463 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 5: you've got to crunch the numbers. You've got to be 464 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 5: tracking your successes, which is why we built the app, 465 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,719 Speaker 5: Like you've got to You've got to understand what is 466 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 5: your value literally and tangibly to that business. If you 467 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 5: do not take this job, or if you leave, what 468 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 5: walks out the door with you, and if you take 469 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 5: two hundred million dollars of clients with you to another agency, 470 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 5: you better believe that they'll be paying what you want 471 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 5: and so making it really easy and doing that preparation. 472 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 5: You kind of got to, like Nancy Drew detective, the 473 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 5: whole situation. You've got to understand, like what is the 474 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 5: economics of it right now? The share price, what's you know, 475 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 5: the federal government changing legislation that's gonna tip everything on 476 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 5: its edd. You've got to sort of do that peripheral vision, 477 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 5: like get beneath the iceberg, beneath the surface, like to 478 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 5: kind of really understand it. Because when you've got that context, 479 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 5: you negotiate from a place of power. And so one 480 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 5: of the things that like, and I don't know if 481 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 5: you did this with your coach as well, one of 482 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 5: the things I always talk about is like the three 483 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 5: WS of negotiation, like the WWW, like the wish, the want, 484 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 5: and the walk. So like you mentioned the OMG. I 485 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 5: can't believe I said that number out loud. Figure, that's 486 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 5: like your wish, Like you want to think about it, 487 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 5: everyone who's listening, like, just think about this banana's number 488 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 5: and then like think about a bigger one and whatever 489 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 5: you think about ad gst at least, right, So that's 490 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 5: like your wish number out on one end and then 491 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 5: we want to slide down the scale to the other end. 492 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 5: Is your walk number, So you're like, that's the number 493 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 5: where it's like I cannot get out of bed for 494 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 5: lesson this because childcare, food, car repayments, mortgage, whatever, or 495 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 5: just like you're like, I got paid this much when 496 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 5: I was like ten years younger. I'm not doing it right. 497 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 5: So you've got to understand what's that walk fere and 498 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 5: then if that's what they offer you or whatever, you 499 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 5: either say no or you take it because you need 500 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 5: to keep looking for something else, right, So whatever that 501 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 5: number is. And then the want number is the number 502 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 5: where you're like, you know what, I'd be stoked to 503 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 5: work hard for this amount of money, and I think 504 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 5: that feels like a fair exchange. So if you've got 505 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 5: those three numbers in your back pocket, then when you 506 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 5: go in you can kind of more easily go. You 507 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 5: can sort of riff up and down depending on their vibe. 508 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 5: I mean, ideally if you can get them to anchor. 509 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 5: I'd love to tell people always also to talk about 510 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 5: like how you throw out a number without throwing out 511 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 5: a number, So like, let's send this job sounds really 512 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 5: interesting I'm so impressed with the team. I'm super well 513 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 5: compensated where I am right now. I'm really happy they 514 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 5: look after me, which is amazing. I feel so valued there. 515 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 5: So I'd love to understand what have you budgeted for 516 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 5: this role? So you kind of like implying, dang, I 517 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 5: am such a baller, like if you miss out on me, 518 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 5: like good luck. But you also haven't given them a nut, 519 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 5: right You're trying to get them to come to the party. 520 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 5: So then that way you can use your wish won't 521 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 5: walk figure to sort of figure out where you go. 522 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: How's that? 523 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 5: Yeh? 524 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: She lays it out pretty clearly. 525 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: It's a great episode on the subject of money. I 526 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 2: do have to play some mats because somebody pays for 527 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: all this back in a tick. 528 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the show. 529 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: I'm just going to say it plainly, if you're someone 530 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: who currently not feeling the best batch body it was 531 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 2: Tommy year can really not be fun. There's a lot 532 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 2: of talk about diets that always happened around this Tommy. 533 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: Ye Anie, your uncle's. 534 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 2: Always around, you know, eat More eat Less Summer in 535 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: Australia released. 536 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: It might not be you, but it might't be people 537 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: close to you. Well, we're lucky. 538 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: We had twenty twenty three's Australian of the Year Tarreon 539 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: Brumford on the show She Lives and Breathes her work 540 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 2: in body positivity. 541 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: We had a cracking chat. 542 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 543 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 7: I mean, I think the process of learning to have 544 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 7: a better relationship with our body requires effort, and I 545 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 7: think just trying to constantly share with people that not 546 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 7: one film or a book is just going to have 547 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 7: you transformed and on your new path. It's forever changing, 548 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 7: and just like our bodies are forever changing. I think 549 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 7: it's a commitment, just like with other things you know 550 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 7: in life, whether it's building muscles at the gym, or 551 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 7: working on your mental health or whatever it might be. 552 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 7: I think it's a commitment to being aware that the 553 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 7: way that you talk to yourself in your head and 554 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 7: the relationship that you have with your body is not 555 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 7: serving you and it's not setting you up in life 556 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 7: to you know, go on the adventures and say yes 557 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 7: and go down the beach and jump in the pool, 558 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 7: whatever they might be. I think it's having that awareness 559 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 7: and then making a commitment to unpacking the array of 560 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 7: information that's out there, books, film, people, storytelling, having conversations. 561 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 7: One of the things I did very early on with 562 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 7: my group of friends was, I am really tired of 563 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 7: hating my body, Like I'm a little bit exhausted by it. 564 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 7: I've been doing it my whole life. I've been dieting, 565 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 7: I've been doing this, that and the other. What about 566 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 7: we just trying something real radical and never say anything 567 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 7: negative about our bodies or anyone else's bodies? Again? That 568 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 7: was like what And at the time it sort of 569 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 7: seemed like a bit of an odd request, you know, 570 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 7: like what you bring to your friend your friend's circle, 571 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 7: was like, can we have some rules and parameters? But 572 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 7: what it actually did was it enabled us to appreciate 573 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 7: how much time we were spending talking negatively about our bodies, 574 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 7: or judging others, or talking about dieting, or talking about 575 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 7: whatever it is, and how boring all of those conversations were, 576 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 7: and then, on reflection again after a few years, how 577 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 7: much more exciting and fun our catch ups are. I Mean, 578 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 7: I've heard it so many times groups of people when 579 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 7: I go to restaurants and I just happened, It's like 580 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 7: it happens to me. It just must be the way 581 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 7: the universe works, or I'm always sitting next to someone 582 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 7: who's bitching about their body. It's just like I'm a 583 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 7: moth to a flame and I just I listen. I think, 584 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 7: oh that I remember that, But it doesn't have to 585 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 7: be that way. 586 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: Wow, what do we You know what, He's got a 587 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: really lovely smile, got lovely. 588 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: Eyes, wasn't it? That's the way you do it. 589 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 2: I guess you can get in that way if there's 590 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: someone in our life that we are you know, we 591 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 2: notice is struggling a bit with this stuff. You know, 592 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: a partner, a romantic partner for example. How can we 593 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 2: support a partner who's going through this? 594 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I think it just comes back to 595 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 7: just listening. I think I've had this conversation with my 596 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 7: husband so many times about just naturally just wanting to 597 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 7: fix all the things that come up because you don't 598 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 7: want your loved one to be in pain. But I 599 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 7: think just listening and making sure they're supported and actually 600 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 7: not stepping up to be the one to support because 601 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 7: we often don't know what to say or do when 602 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 7: it comes to partners. So we're very much focused on parents, 603 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 7: say and do this to your kids, and don't say 604 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 7: and do this partners is actually is a new world 605 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 7: for me because even I a few years ago when 606 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 7: my nineteen year marriage ended, I found myself dating when 607 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 7: I thought, hang on a second, that was not that 608 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 7: was not on my that was not in the cards 609 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 7: in my future. And then next minute I'm on bumble 610 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 7: and then you're having a date and you're like, oh 611 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 7: my god, someone's gonna this is me when I'm embracing right, 612 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 7: I'm doing the work I've been embracing for years, and 613 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 7: I'm like la da da da da. And I was like, 614 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 7: holy shit, someone's gonna see my body. And I had 615 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 7: to think about that, you know, the body that they've 616 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 7: not seen grow three babies and give birth and breastfeed 617 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 7: four thousand meal. They've not been on that journey. So 618 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 7: I'm not so sure other than listening and loving that, 619 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 7: I have too much other advice to share on that one, 620 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 7: but it's probably enough anyway, love and listen. 621 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: Oh man, I was well, I did not give birth 622 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: before it started dating again, But yeah, I started dating 623 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 2: in my forties. I did not like it after I 624 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 2: got the it was darable. Speaking of flicking through photos 625 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: by Golly and I show. 626 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 7: Off on bumble the guy. The first guy I swiped 627 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 7: was who I. 628 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: Married, and look, if they're not a client by tomorrow, 629 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: i'd be just for you. 630 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 7: I just thought that was like efficiency one O one. 631 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 7: I was like, yeah, I'm really fucking busy. So one 632 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 7: night it wasn't. But that world is terrifying when you're 633 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,959 Speaker 7: in because, say me too, forties, I don't know how 634 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 7: to do, I don't know. 635 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: How to date, I don't know what I was doing. 636 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: Fonds didn't have cameras on them. Last time I had 637 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: to call people. Yep, like it was. It was the worst, 638 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was. 639 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: It was. 640 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting about you know, speaking of body image. You know, 641 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: one of the. 642 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 2: I was very clear and that the pictures that I 643 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: would put up were pictures that were very recent. So 644 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: it be came evident quite quickly that the people I 645 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: was having coffee with, or maybe having lunch or maybe 646 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 2: even a dinner with, they were using pictures which were 647 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 2: quite old. 648 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 7: That old chestnut. I've heard this many times, or like 649 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 7: the f the whole filter situation. It doesn't make sense 650 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 7: because when you meet the person, yeah, why would you 651 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 7: even want to set yourself up like that? 652 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: But also this this is quite a signal for me. 653 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: It's all right, you're not actually okay with who. 654 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: You are here today. That's some work that you get 655 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: to do without me. 656 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 7: Good luck, totally, absolutely, But how did you do dating 657 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 7: apps when you've got such a public profile? 658 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: I was in America, and you. 659 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 7: That's gold I did. I did like a photograph and 660 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 7: not that you know that I had such a public 661 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 7: profile that everyone would know me, but definitely some people would. 662 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 7: So I had hairlight across the face, just like wind 663 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 7: swept in a lot of the classics. 664 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: The classics. Yeah I didn't. I never held a fish 665 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: or had a tiger. But yeah, I was very grateful 666 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: it was. It was over. When it was, when it was. 667 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: Over, when we are supporting, we're talking about partners again. 668 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 2: I remember what like, I started to come out of 669 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: the dysmorphic thing very slowly, and someone who very much 670 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 2: cared for me was trying to let me know that 671 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,239 Speaker 2: this was going on and that I actually was a 672 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: lot in a lot better shape than I thought I was. 673 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: And I truly I was upset that they were telling 674 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: me such a thing which I believed was so wrong, 675 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: and I kept denying They'll go no I'm not, And 676 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: I kept shooting down and denying what they were trying 677 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: to tell me. That could be very difficult for a 678 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: partner who's trying to go, no, actually you look great, 679 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: you look really healthy, and I'm going, no, I'm not this. 680 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: Look at that, Look at this, Look at this photo? Here, 681 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: Look how many chins I've got? Boo, Like, what can 682 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: we do to help a partner who's doing that? Because 683 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: I was definitely doing well? 684 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: What helped you? 685 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: Ah? To be honest, it was the only years later 686 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: when I just started to realize that this person who's 687 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: a stylist as a professional, and I trust that their 688 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: career is also on show here, so they're not going 689 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: to put me in something that I don't look good in. 690 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: So I will just trust. I will hate it every 691 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 2: second I'm wearing it, but I will trust that it 692 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: looks okay and having When you do photo shoots, for example, 693 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 2: it's not the same any but you know, sometimes you 694 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: get it. It's like six eight people standing around a 695 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: marinsa wrote and every one of them going yeah, that's great, 696 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: and me looking at going you can't see the love 697 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: handles that are eclipsing the sun and they're like, what 698 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: are you talking about? No, and I just have to go, oh, 699 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: I'm seeing something that they're not. They would say something, 700 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: if there was something, they'd be said, Thanks very much, brain. 701 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate it, But that was years later. Years. It 702 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: took me along, many many times doing that. 703 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, And I guess that's the mental muscle that you 704 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 7: need to build, isn't it. But in my experience, I've 705 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 7: been told something that I don't believe myself. I could 706 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 7: be told a million times unless it's my truth. Unless 707 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 7: I'm a little bit closer to the truth for myself. 708 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 7: That's the only way I can hear others. But I 709 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 7: think that that is the journey, isn't it. That's the 710 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 7: internal work that we need to go on. That we 711 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 7: can have supportive voices around us saying those things. But 712 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 7: unless we believe it ourselves, does it help you know? 713 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 7: For me, it hasn't. 714 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Angie mcmahm was here the other day, the musician 715 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 2: and she we were talking about exercise as a way 716 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: to regulate one's mental health and she was saying how 717 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 2: only recently has she started to embrace it. And we 718 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: kind of talked a bit about it, and she has 719 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: this fantastic line. I'm going to mess it up. But 720 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: it was something like exercise was something the only girls 721 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: who wanted to be skinny would do. 722 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: And I didn't want that, so I didn't exercise. 723 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: And and I kind of thought that that's really interesting, 724 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: you know, because that is very much how it's so. 725 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 2: Exercise is something you do if you want a fucking 726 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: good rig you know, if you want to look yoked, 727 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: if you want to seek back. That's what people who 728 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: exercise do. That's what they want. That's why the exercise. 729 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: Exercise is not you want to sleep great? Do you 730 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: want to have things that used to really shit? You 731 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: be fine? 732 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 7: Exercise totally, isn't it. It's such a but see exercise 733 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 7: in itself, the relationship that so many people have with it. 734 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 7: It feels like it's something that some people have to do. 735 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 7: It's like we've got the relationships so wrong with exercise. 736 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 7: Maybe that's just the way it's been sold to us, 737 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 7: or it's just the way that we talk about it. 738 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,479 Speaker 7: Is that moving, moving my body is the best part 739 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 7: of my day. Like it's just that's probably, you know, 740 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 7: one of the most joyful parts of my day, aside 741 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 7: from dropping all the kids at school and saying bye. 742 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 7: But I just I hate the thought that people think 743 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 7: it's yeah, something that's forced upon them or that they 744 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 7: have to do. It's like having the gym routine, you know, 745 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 7: people like, oh I have to go to the gym. 746 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 7: I'm like, oh my gosh, who's holding a gun to 747 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 7: your head? Like how, what's happened? Why? And their relationship 748 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 7: with it is it doesn't feel very empowering. 749 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: So here's the finding ways to move and be in 750 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 2: our bodies that, yeah, it feels good this year. If 751 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 2: you enjoyed any of those bits that you just heard from, 752 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 2: each one of those is from a much longer episode 753 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 2: Ali Abdel, Maggie Palmer, and Taron Brumfitt. Just you can 754 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: find the full chats. Just search their name, scroll around 755 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:35,479 Speaker 2: in the feed. 756 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: You'll find it. 757 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: There's heaps more there, trust me. Thanks for listening. Big 758 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 2: Plans in twenty twenty five. Follow this or subscribe to this. However, 759 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: you can in your podcast app jump on the substack 760 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: for access to live show tickets. 761 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: Story Club is back in February. 762 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 2: If you want to get tickets to link is there 763 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 2: And if you need an email, super easy send usher 764 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: email at gmail dot com. 765 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening, See you soon.