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Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gadigal Land.

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Speaker 2: It's August twenty three, twenty twelve. In the searing heat

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Speaker 2: of the Afghanistan Desert. Curtis McGrath and his unit of

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Speaker 2: combat engineers are searching for improvised explosive devices. At twenty

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Speaker 2: four years of age, he's three months into his deployment,

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Speaker 2: helping to clear paths for military operations in a region

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Speaker 2: filled with insurgents, IDs and scattered shrapnel. It's a painstaking task.

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Speaker 2: Curtis is on his fifth straight day of searching for explosives.

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Speaker 2: After successfully finding and disarming four bombs, Curtis's boot triggers

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Speaker 2: a fifth. The noise and plume of dust alert team

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Speaker 2: members of the disaster. When they arrived to his side,

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Speaker 2: they see Curtis's legs are gone, but as the team's medic,

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Speaker 2: it's left to Curtis himself to do. He wrecked his

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Speaker 2: own medical care and as he's loaded onto a helicopter

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Speaker 2: to be medivaced out, he's already planning his future as

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Speaker 2: a paralympian. I'm Ad Middleton and this is head Game today.

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Speaker 2: Curtis McGrath talks resilience on the battlefield and turning pain

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Speaker 2: into Paralympic gold. Curtis, you're a former soldier Afghan VET

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Speaker 2: like myself, and that era of the IEDs in Afghanistan

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Speaker 2: was hectic and you know, super destructive. But Curtis, were

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Speaker 2: you always keen on joining the military? What went through

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Speaker 2: your head as a youngster and growing up and how

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Speaker 2: was your life, you know, as a young teen and

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Speaker 2: did you did you have the military in your mind

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Speaker 2: from from day dot or was it just slowly introduced

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Speaker 2: into your life? How did that work out?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I grew up in New Zealand in Queenstown's

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Speaker 1: a pretty adventurous place and really loved the outdoors and

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Speaker 1: sort of wanted to continue on the adventure of life

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Speaker 1: and a lot of my mates were heading off to

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Speaker 1: university and I wasn't too keen on that. I was

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Speaker 1: pretty keen to stay outdoors and do things that I

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Speaker 1: was interested in. And luckily enough, I had dual citizenships.

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Speaker 1: I had the option to do in New Zealand or

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Speaker 1: an Australian Army And the job that I was actually

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Speaker 1: after was an aircraft technician and specifically on helicopters, so

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Speaker 1: fixing helicopters and I was pretty keen on that. So

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Speaker 1: Australian Military Office that as a sort of a direct

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Speaker 1: entry pathway. So I sort of jumped over the ditch

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Speaker 1: and enlisted, but in that process realized that they weren't

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Speaker 1: recruiting that role for another eighteen twelve months, and you know,

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Speaker 1: being seventeen years old, that's you know, like ten percent

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Speaker 1: of my life. So I was like, nah, I can't

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Speaker 1: be waiting around that. So what else you got? So

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Speaker 1: what about combat engineering? So I said, oh, yes, sweet,

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty good. Get to build stuff and blow it

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Speaker 1: up and yeah, or while you know, being outdoors and

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Speaker 1: doing things that you otherwise wouldn't wouldn't get the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to do. And I think that's part of what what

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Speaker 1: drew me to the military, you know, that that sense

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Speaker 1: of doing things with other people, getting out there, doing

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Speaker 1: things you wouldn't would normally do, and and doing it

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Speaker 1: in places that you wouldn't normally go. So it was

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty keen on that. So an away, it was

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Speaker 1: always sort of there that outdoors specifically, but also that

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Speaker 1: that team work and that camaraderie that that is you know,

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Speaker 1: synonymous with the military lifestyle and the institution that it

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Speaker 1: is and it was. It was definitely something that was

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Speaker 1: always on my radar growing up.

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Speaker 2: Well, what year did you decide to join up, because

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Speaker 2: obviously there's an era when you join when you know

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Speaker 2: you're either going to be deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.

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Speaker 2: What year was it that when when you joined?

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Speaker 1: I enlisted in June twelve, two thousand and six, and

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Speaker 1: then got to my unit early two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, sort of sex to twelve months and training

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Speaker 1: and all that. So, yeah, two thousand and seven, the

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Speaker 1: obviously the Afghan War had been going on for you know,

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Speaker 1: that's about five years, six years with you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of pretty quiet in that sort of stage. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of reconstruction. I think that the

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Speaker 1: deployments that were going from Australia at that time were

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Speaker 1: called Reconstruction Task Force. So in the unit, I just

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Speaker 1: got to ad just come back or just about to

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Speaker 1: leave or something like that for one of these. But

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Speaker 1: also my role as combat engineer, we do a lot

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Speaker 1: of humanitarian stuff. So we got I got to my unit,

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Speaker 1: the first Combat Engineer Regiment in Darwin and the boys

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Speaker 1: had just got back from band Arch where the big

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Speaker 1: boxing day tsunami had hit, so that had a pretty

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Speaker 1: rough time, you know, cleaning up bodies and cleaning up

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Speaker 1: prastructure and trying to get that Somatra back on track

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Speaker 1: and back on its feet. And it was obviously a

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Speaker 1: bit of an interesting time because you've got combat deployments

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Speaker 1: in a way, and humanitarian deployments happening all the time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as we all realized that humanitarian missions

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Speaker 1: start to become more and more of common as our

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Speaker 1: capability and our sort of efficiency of getting to those

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Speaker 1: places start ramping up. But also, as he pointed out,

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Speaker 1: the Iraq War was sort of festering away in the background,

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Speaker 1: but by that time we as Australians, I think we

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Speaker 1: were only involved in security detachment sort of and helping

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Speaker 1: with our interests and assets in our arc, rather than

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Speaker 1: going out and finding and fighting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing mate. The reason why I can relate to

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Speaker 2: that is because when I was seventeen years old, I

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Speaker 2: joined the Royal Engineers in the UK and the Royal

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Speaker 2: Engineer or combat engineer is a supporting role where we

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Speaker 2: support the infantry units moving forward. However, we're the first

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Speaker 2: people up front either clearing minds, you know, getting up front,

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Speaker 2: securing a location for them, making sure that you know,

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Speaker 2: they've got all the structures in place, whether it's water purification,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's really being that supportive element to it,

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Speaker 2: but being the first sort of unit on the ground,

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Speaker 2: which is super important for any sort of longevity in

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Speaker 2: for people to be able to sustain themselves in hostile environments.

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Speaker 2: So a combat engineer, I remember when I first joined

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Speaker 2: the will Engineers and I realized, you know, that I

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Speaker 2: was actually going to be upfront doing this, that that

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Speaker 2: sort of gave me that sort of sense of excitement.

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Speaker 2: But then when I realized when I went on some

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Speaker 2: peacekeeping missions and in Macedonia, Northern Ireland and cossov Etctera,

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Speaker 2: you know, I realized that kai this was a kinetic role,

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Speaker 2: then we'd be up the front as well with the

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Speaker 2: bullets and bombs ultimately clearing them. And I remember having

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Speaker 2: that thought process when I was sat in Macedonia actually

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one, and I actually watched the

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Speaker 2: on a tiny TV in a in a in an

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Speaker 2: airpane hangar. I watched the nine eleven in I watched

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Speaker 2: the twin Town was taken down, and I can just

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Speaker 2: remember thinking, right, I'm here on this peacekeeping mission right

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Speaker 2: now in his hearts and minds sort of operation. But

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Speaker 2: now I'm going to have to go into a sort

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Speaker 2: of a kinetic op and I remember just my mindset flipping.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why I'm saying this is because I

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Speaker 2: want people to realize, you know that you know that

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Speaker 2: era of going from sort of when nothing happened to

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Speaker 2: then Iraq and Afghanistan kicking off. And the reason why

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Speaker 2: I asked you when you joined, Curtis is because you

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Speaker 2: joined you might you join knowing that you're going to Afghanistan. Right,

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Speaker 2: That's why people joined as there was a sense of right,

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Speaker 2: I want to, you know, do stuff for my country,

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Speaker 2: but also knowing that you're gonna You're going to see

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Speaker 2: the action that obviously you've trained for and in a

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Speaker 2: way that you crave. Did you join up thinking to yourself, right,

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Speaker 2: I actually really want to help out. I want to

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Speaker 2: get involved and I know what I'm getting myself into.

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Speaker 2: Or did you join on on on quite a naive

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Speaker 2: sort of mindset on thinking wow, this is still just

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Speaker 2: you know, I'd have a nice cushy career as a

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Speaker 2: combat engineer. I'll get load. Yeah, I'll get a trade

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Speaker 2: behind my belt, et cetera, et cetera, and then I'll

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Speaker 2: leave What was your mindset going into it? And I

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Speaker 2: only imagine it was different to mine when I joined

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Speaker 2: in ninety ninety seven, to you joining in the full

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Speaker 2: fledge of the Afghanistan war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably was a little bit different. I guess,

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Speaker 1: knowing that that was going on in the background. I

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Speaker 1: guess I was a little bit more naive in the

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Speaker 1: process because I was, you know, thinking that we're going

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Speaker 1: in there and doing the humanitarian stuff in that setting

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Speaker 1: as opposed to being upfront and doing that that leading

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Speaker 1: the way as you have put it before, and having

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to be a part of that the frontline

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Speaker 1: action was obviously exciting, you know, being young and around

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Speaker 1: guys that are the similar age and similar sort of

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Speaker 1: maturity and excitement around the action, so to say, but

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Speaker 1: also realizing that our role is so critical, it becomes

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Speaker 1: you become sort of I don't know, I wouldn't say arrogant,

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Speaker 1: but you get a bit of pride about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: you start to realize that these are the scenarios that

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Speaker 1: we're getting trained on, because these are the things that

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Speaker 1: we're probably going to experience or see or be a

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Speaker 1: part of or hear about whilst we're on deployment and

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Speaker 1: you start to want to use these skills you know,

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Speaker 1: you're being trained at the you know, I think this

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a rumor or a estimation, but

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Speaker 1: I think to train a combat engineer for a deployment

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Speaker 1: to the Middle East at that time was upwards of

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Speaker 1: one and a half million dollars, so quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of training, specialized equipment, specialized you know trainers. And not

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Speaker 1: to mention that the exercises that we go on, with

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Speaker 1: the scenarios that we create, you know, we're going out

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Speaker 1: to remote corners of Australia to replicate the environment, having

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Speaker 1: facilities built that look like you know, the local villages

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Speaker 1: and towns of Afghanistan and Iraq, and having different people involved,

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Speaker 1: and you know, people that have been to Afghanistan and

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Speaker 1: lived there and been a part of you know, the

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Speaker 1: security situation there for for months to end and really

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Speaker 1: sort of learning as much as we can, and then

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Speaker 1: we start to realize, like, you know, we're highly skilled

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Speaker 1: operators that really want to get in there and utilize

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Speaker 1: these skills and the things that we are training to do,

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Speaker 1: and I do a bit of public speaking, and when

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Speaker 1: when you're up on stage and people are often asking

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Speaker 1: like why did you want to go to the war zone, Well,

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Speaker 1: think of it like this. You're being on a sports team.

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Speaker 1: You go to training, you know, three four days a week,

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Speaker 1: and you come game day and you sit on the

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Speaker 1: bench and watch your mates go out and do the game,

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Speaker 1: and you don't get to utilize those skills, you know,

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Speaker 1: run through that strategy, feel the feelings that your mates

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Speaker 1: are playing on the field, and then you go back

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Speaker 1: the shed and you know, talk about what like how

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Speaker 1: warm my bench spot was or how good the jacket was.

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Speaker 1: It's not the same. So you want to get out

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Speaker 1: there and do the real thing, and you know, when

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Speaker 1: you get the opportunity, you jump at it. For sure.

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Speaker 2: Take me back to the day when you found out

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Speaker 2: that you were being deployed to Afghanistan, and just taught

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Speaker 2: me through, you know, what you felt emotionally and psychologically,

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Speaker 2: and also talk me through the pre deployment training that

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Speaker 2: you've done before you deployed and how that prepared you

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Speaker 2: or not for the actual theater of operations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think our pre deployment was about eleven

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Speaker 1: months and I remember getting a phone sergeant. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: phone call from a sergeant saying, oh, well, there's a

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Speaker 1: trip to Afghanistan. We want to put you on it.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I don't. I don't even

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Speaker 1: think about that, Like just put me in. I'll go,

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Speaker 1: I'll leave be back and he's like yeah, we'll like

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Speaker 1: once you get back, it's it's game on. So got

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Speaker 1: back in like November or something like that, and we

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Speaker 1: just like three days later, we're out in the place

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Speaker 1: called Woomera doing you know, higher research training sort of

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Speaker 1: the orientation, the introductionary sort of phase to that, that

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Speaker 1: whole process, and then it was just come back to

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Speaker 1: base and back to Brisbane where we were and utilize

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Speaker 1: those skills and run through the scenarios over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. Then you put it, put in your

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Speaker 1: sort of squads, your bricks and your sections, and and

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Speaker 1: then you run through that again, and then you go

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Speaker 1: through another course and then and then you go out

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Speaker 1: and get certified. And you know, being combat engineer, we're

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Speaker 1: one of the few roles that get deployed that that

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Speaker 1: are certified to be there. So we don't just go

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Speaker 1: on a training package and get ticked off to say

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Speaker 1: you've done the course that we actually get graded and

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Speaker 1: our abilities are a chet to because it's such a

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Speaker 1: critical role. So going through that process, you know, I

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Speaker 1: went through as a searcher first, and you know past.

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Speaker 2: A searcher quickly described Curtis what a searcher is for

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Speaker 2: the for the listeners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're to move through Afghanistan. We have to

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Speaker 1: search the way forward and we're using a metal detector

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Speaker 1: and with a usually two searchers up front, and then

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Speaker 1: you've got a patrol commander or a brick commander, and

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Speaker 1: then you've got a reserve and then you sort of

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Speaker 1: swap out in those rotational roles and you're searching, you know,

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Speaker 1: back and forward, sort of doing half the road each

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Speaker 1: and sort of overlapping and moving forward and looking for

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Speaker 1: improvised explosive devices, whether they're in the ground, trees and

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Speaker 1: the donkeys or on someone that's it's all sorts of

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Speaker 1: pattern recognition, anything out of the ordinary and all the

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Speaker 1: different ways and these things can go off, so you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just a pressure plaid you step on it

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Speaker 1: and it goes off, or a wire that you trip

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Speaker 1: over can be a mobile phone, it can be a

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Speaker 1: TV remote, it can be a sort of an infrared

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Speaker 1: like when you walk into a convenience store and the

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Speaker 1: door chime goes ding dong, that sort of thing. There's

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Speaker 1: lots of different ways these things can go off. That

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Speaker 1: whole training package, it's all about identifying those threats and

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Speaker 1: moving in such a safe way that the likelihood of

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Speaker 1: you triggering one of these devices. You know, an ID

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Speaker 1: doesn't care if you're a battle tank or a soldier

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Speaker 1: or a school bus full of kids. It's going to

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Speaker 1: go off most of the time and it doesn't care.

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Speaker 1: So it's all about trying to reduce that threat, reduce

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Speaker 1: the danger, and get those things out of the ground

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Speaker 1: so we can move. But also the people of that

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Speaker 1: community wherever it's if it's Afghanistan, Saddan, Bosnia, wherever, they

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Speaker 1: can move about freely and you know, as they should,

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Speaker 1: and that's our role. That's pretty much what we were

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Speaker 1: doing in Afghanistan more around the coalition forces. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's obviously an.

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Speaker 2: Importan when you finish your pre deployment training, did you

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Speaker 2: feel prepared? You feel ready?

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Speaker 1: I would say in some ways, very very confident in

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Speaker 1: our training. You know, we've done so much of it,

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Speaker 1: and really confident in the guys around me. We've been

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Speaker 1: working together for upwards to nine months literally, like working

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Speaker 1: in the same tents and out of the same vehicles

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Speaker 1: and doing the same things, you know, go to the

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Speaker 1: pub together, all that sort of stuff. So becoming really

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Speaker 1: close to these guys that I was working with, you

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Speaker 1: feel very safe, very confident in our force as we

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Speaker 1: move forward. But then there's nothing like the real thing,

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Speaker 1: Like once you get there and be in the environment

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Speaker 1: with locals that are do not speak English, with dogs

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Speaker 1: that will protect their buildings and their owners. They don't care.

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Speaker 1: So the dogs are pretty scary over there, the big

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Speaker 1: Afghan hounds. They're almost looky in the eye at six flats,

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Speaker 1: so the big animals. But you know, all that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. You're ready in a way, but you never

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Speaker 1: really really for the real thing. It's just different and

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Speaker 1: you can never replicate the real thing. It can do

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Speaker 1: all the training in the world for whatever you want,

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Speaker 1: and it's a different story when you're whether you're getting

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Speaker 1: up on stage, getting out on the sports field, or

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Speaker 1: going into battle. It's so much different when you actually

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Speaker 1: you know, boots on the ground and walking through the

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Speaker 1: environment and not knowing if that kid is doing something

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Speaker 1: sinister or not like it's and it's up to you

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Speaker 1: to make the right decision. And whatever that right decision

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Speaker 1: might be, you're got to be content with that decision

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: And prepared, I suppose. So talk to me about your

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Speaker 2: daily routine. What did it look like you I can

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Speaker 2: only imagine it was like when I'd done my first tour.

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Speaker 2: I've done three tours in total. My first was with

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Speaker 2: the WORL Marines as a section commander or brick commander

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Speaker 2: as you call it, going out, you know, thirteen fourteen

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Speaker 2: hour patrols, patrolling the area, you know, asking locals if

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Speaker 2: fifteen any Taliban in the area, gaining a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and then going back to the FOB, which is our

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Speaker 2: forward operational base. So that's what my sort of day

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Speaker 2: to day conventional sort of forces look like on the

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Speaker 2: ground in Afghanistan. How did you How did yours look?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So we had we were in a bit of

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Speaker 1: an interesting position, so we did mobility, so we would

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Speaker 1: operate out of the main base and towering count and

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Speaker 1: do like supply runs, which is not that glamorous however,

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Speaker 1: you know, setting patterns, we're using the same roads or that,

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Speaker 1: so we're easily targetable, which means it's dangerous. But then

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Speaker 1: we'd get out into these patrol bases or that the

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Speaker 1: fobs and the battle groups that are out there, the

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Speaker 1: team battle teams they were, or combat teams as we

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Speaker 1: called them. That'd be oh, we're going to go and

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Speaker 1: do this clearance this operation for four days. You guys

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Speaker 1: are going to be attached to us and cool, cool,

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Speaker 1: thanks like getting getting really really into it. And that

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Speaker 1: was great because it gave us a lot of versatility,

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Speaker 1: gave us a lot of different things happening all the time.

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Speaker 1: But also it made us really fatigue. We're pretty tired,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of months and we're pretty bugger

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Speaker 1: doing this over and over again. But it meant that

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Speaker 1: we got, you know, the full experience. You know, we

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Speaker 1: do our patrols out to the patrol bases or fobs,

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Speaker 1: and then we'd join these teams and go into the villages,

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Speaker 1: into the valleys and search and find for and when

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Speaker 1: we do the clearance patrols, we're looking for caged weapons,

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Speaker 1: so you know ied componentary weapons RPGs, you know, any

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Speaker 1: explosive production, that sort of stuff. That's all the things

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Speaker 1: we're looking for, and that's probably the best way to counter,

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Speaker 1: don't you know. I don't want to go out there

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Speaker 1: and shoot people and go and kill the enemy or

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Speaker 1: anything like that called to kill people. It's better to

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Speaker 1: go out there and take away their weapons and then

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Speaker 1: they go back to being farmers and mechanics and whatever

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Speaker 1: else they're doing. You know, it's that it completely takes

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Speaker 1: the fight out of them because they know we've got

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Speaker 1: bigger guns, they know we've got better equipment and jets.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the way they wage war is pretty

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Speaker 1: rudimentary and rudimental, and it's it's difficult, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: gorilla and it's hidden and it's hard. So if you

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Speaker 1: take away that device from them that they're not able

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Speaker 1: to lay that I d So getting out there and

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Speaker 1: on the ground was a very different experience because you know,

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Speaker 1: we're so critical in the way in which we move

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Speaker 1: about Afghanistan. You know, we we were always involved in

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Speaker 1: the mobility of anyone and because if anyone was out

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Speaker 1: there doing their thing and instead on an idea, it's

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Speaker 1: that the combat engineers that come out and you know,

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Speaker 1: not saved the day, I would wouldn't say that. We

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Speaker 1: would be out there, you know, working with everyone to

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Speaker 1: make sure that no one stepped on another I D

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Speaker 1: or you know, you get caught it and in those

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Speaker 1: in those situations, so it's pretty tricky, but it was tiring,

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Speaker 1: and you know, by the end of the day, like

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Speaker 1: you said, fourteen our days is not uncommon at all.

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Speaker 2: If anyone was going to catch it up, it was

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Speaker 2: going to be those upfront clearing or looking or trying

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Speaker 2: to disarm IDs. And unfortunately that person was you, Curtis.

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Speaker 2: Take me back to the day when you were on

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Speaker 2: your clearance patrol and yeah, the big boom happened and

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Speaker 2: you woke up with no legs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was twenty third of August twenty twelve,

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Speaker 1: so three months into our six months tour, we were

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Speaker 1: on a clearance operation re establishing a checkpoint. So the

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Speaker 1: insurgency had sort of had the area, had the area

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Speaker 1: that laylot of IDs that'd been Afghan police force and

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Speaker 1: there for a while they pushed out because they kept

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Speaker 1: getting hit and we wanted to reinstall sort of a

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Speaker 1: bili stability and security in the area with coalition forces.

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Speaker 1: So the Green Brays we're operating in the area. So

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Speaker 1: the American Special Forces were around and they said, oh,

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Speaker 1: when you go past this hell, you guys are gonna

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Speaker 1: get shot up for sure, and we're like, great. It's

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Speaker 1: not very comforting when the SF boys are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's pretty dangerous past this hell. And

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Speaker 1: we didn't have them coming with us. You know, they've

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Speaker 1: got many guns on buggies and mope and bites and

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Speaker 1: they come and with compete everything, and we, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were pretty confident in our vehicles for sure, the

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Speaker 1: bush Master, and we had the support and the big

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Speaker 1: mortar teams back on the base ready to back us up.

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Speaker 1: But you never know what's going to happen once you

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Speaker 1: passed this hell. We passed this hill when nothing really happened.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think the insurgents really wanted to mess

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Speaker 1: with us because we rolled in with like six vehicles,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot more, and they look like tanks

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Speaker 1: well compared to you know, a quad bite, which the

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Speaker 1: Green Brays were rocking. And they didn't didn't mess with

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Speaker 1: us at all, which was nice, and they sort of

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Speaker 1: bugged out that night. We were watching them with our

397
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Speaker 1: optics but as we moved into this pass, this hell,

398
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Speaker 1: we came across you know, blast creators and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of crap. And then the next day we moved up

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Speaker 1: onto the checkpoint which we were meant to establish. And

401
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Speaker 1: then the next day we've got approval to explosively remove

402
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Speaker 1: this boulder that was blocking like one of the tracks in.

403
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Speaker 1: We're up on a hill, so obviously that the access

404
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Speaker 1: needs to be cleared, and there was only one or

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Speaker 1: two ways in and it was on this track. So

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Speaker 1: we're getting rid of this boulder. And I was a

407
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Speaker 1: bit confused and tired and hungry, and you know, it's

408
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Speaker 1: four days of working forteen our days at you know,

409
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Speaker 1: thirty thirty forty degrees, you're wearing about fifteen twenty kilos

410
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Speaker 1: with a cat, it's three and a half hours a

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Speaker 1: meters above sea level, your bus and your garden, and

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Speaker 1: obviously doing a job it's incredibly dangerous and intense. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting at this rock and thinking where the boys are,

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Speaker 1: and my mate Pitch comes over to me and goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's the other rock, idiot. I was like, oh, yes, true, true, true,

416
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Speaker 1: I was just on a different rock that was blocking

417
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Speaker 1: a differ from part of the track, and I'm walking

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Speaker 1: along part on an area where we've already searched along

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Speaker 1: and walked past probably a hundred times. And and then

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Speaker 1: next minute, I'm like looking up at the sky. It's dark,

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Speaker 1: it's dusty, there's rocks and ship falling from the sky

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Speaker 1: and falling hitting me in the face, and like, what

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Speaker 1: the hell is this happened to me?

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Speaker 2: Wow? So Curtis, let me, So you you at one

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Speaker 2: location where you think that you need to clear You've

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Speaker 2: you've walked multiple times, and I suppose it was it

427
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Speaker 2: was obviously a triggered I d right that you trod

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Speaker 2: on you stood on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that that idea was in my lane

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Speaker 1: as well. I missed it.

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Speaker 2: You missed it, But I suppose it's only what a

432
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: footprint away from from being missed, you know, like an inch,

433
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: a couple of inches to the left and to the right.

434
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: You're you're not touching that, right.

435
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: That's right? And yeah, there's like how many people would

436
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: have come close, And in my mind it's it's probably

437
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: the best case scenario. Like if someone else got hurt

438
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: of something that I missed, how would that make me feel?

439
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: How do you be accountable for the role and the

440
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: job in which I was meant to do, and I

441
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: missed it, and I made that mistake and ultimately it

442
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: took my legs.

443
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way, psychologically you can you can you

444
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: can process it, not so much live with it, but

445
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: you can process that that. I get what you mean

446
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: by that. So you're obviously you're one route all of

447
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: a sudden. I can only imagine as well. You know,

448
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: these ideas allowed the big plume of dust that just

449
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: alerts everyone. You know, they look around, they see a

450
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: big plume of dust, they see you bloody in the

451
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 2: air or on the ground. They know exactly what it is.

452
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 2: What's the next process? When or thought that comes into

453
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: your head when you're when you're see laid on.

454
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: Your back, I think the words are holy shit. Yeah yeah, yeah,

455
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: you sort of get up on your elbows to sort

456
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: of look around, and you you know, the you think

457
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 1: because I didn't. I don't remember the blast or anything

458
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: like that. The bang itself. I don't got no recollection

459
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: of that, no recollection of my rifle being snapped in half,

460
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: my metodotective being obliterated, like it was all packed up

461
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: and sort of compact carrimode blowing off to the side

462
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: and shit everywhere, and you sort of get up and

463
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: you look around and you're like whoa, Like this is

464
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: this is bad? Like I can see the blood just

465
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: gushing out of my legs.

466
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: So you're quite copas meant to see. So you're you're

467
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: you're like, like you said, I can't believe you said,

468
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: You've got up on your elbows. You're looking around, you

469
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: look down and there's You're trying to process everything. Right

470
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: When when is it that you realize, holy shit, I've

471
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: actually trodden an id.

472
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: It's sort of in that moment when you see it

473
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: all around it and the blood's just like flowing out

474
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: of me. I was also the combat first AD for

475
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: my team, so I was the one that was trained

476
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: in first aid. So the other boys, you know, had

477
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: had different roles, you know, when it was radio, one

478
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: was command and control, one was you know, EO R

479
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: or whatever you call it, disposable and it's reconnaissance and

480
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: like that, all those different roles. You know, me being

481
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: the one with first aid had been trained in this

482
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: process and these injuries, and I'm the one that's laying

483
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: there with my legs blown off. So I was very

484
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: aware that, you know, the situation demanded some pretty immediate action,

485
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: some immediate first aid. And I tried to rip off

486
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: the tornicquet and put it on my legs, and unfortunately

487
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't do that because every time I got off

488
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: my elbows, I didn't have any weight to do a

489
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: sit up. I kept falling backwards. The pain was extraordinary

490
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: as well. I couldn't I can't explain or it was

491
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: just so intense. It wasn't just my legs, it was

492
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: my head, my arms, my back, my barm, like everything

493
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: about my body was just the same amount of intense pain.

494
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: And I pitch my mate and the other combat engineer.

495
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: He was off to the side, probably about fifteen meters away, thankfully,

496
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: and he had some pretty perforated ear drums they couldn't

497
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: hear too well. But I yelled at him and he

498
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: heard me, and he came running in and put on

499
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: the torner caves and I'll ultimately save my life. You know,

500
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: that was an action that I cannot tell the story

501
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: without telling that, because he's the reason why I'm able

502
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: to talk to you today.

503
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: And so you're bleeding out basically obviously, thermoa trees. You

504
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: buy your legs, you're you're bleeding out big time. He's

505
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: obviously whacked on two torner caves because it's both your legs, right, yeah,

506
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: one on each leg and one below the knee and

507
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: one above the knee, or just just both.

508
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: Just the protocols. Just high and tight. Just high and tight,

509
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: and do it tight. You know, try not to get

510
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: a test card in there as you can, but it is.

511
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: It is something we get taught about. But just you're

512
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: high and tight and do them real tight. Yeah, and

513
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: then if that one doesn't work, put on another one.

514
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: Do it high and tight again.

515
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: And kurtis the reason why I ask you is because

516
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: did you feel the pain of the tornicice going on?

517
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: Because I know because I've I've spoken to a triple

518
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 2: amputy before and he remembers the tornic cae going on.

519
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: I think his arm was and he just said, you know,

520
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: from all the pain, yeah, from all the pain that

521
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: he'd endured in that moment, and he still remembers the

522
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: pinch on his arm. I think. So that's the reason

523
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: why I asked, because I know the tornic ca of intense,

524
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: you know, they're intense in themselves, aren't they.

525
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're pretty rugged material. They're made out of, like

526
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: seat belt and some pretty if you think about it,

527
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, putting your belt that put around your pants

528
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: and then wrapping it in your arm and catching a

529
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: bit of skin in your arm. That's kind of the

530
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: feeling he would have been talking about. But I don't

531
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: remember that that pain. It was just so excruciating anyway.

532
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: So but yeah, and then the next phase, the boys

533
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: where I was meant to be meant to be going,

534
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: they came around the corner, like up this hill towards me,

535
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: and I just remember their faces, you know that. And

536
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: you said in the entrance that rip lels of effect.

537
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: You know, I was the one that was injured, but

538
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: they are also affected by this moment as well. It's

539
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: not just my my traumas. There's too and yeah it

540
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: might not be physical, but it's definitely a mental and emotional.

541
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: And in that moment, you know, it started. You know,

542
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't think about that at that time, but in retrospect,

543
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: thinking back and seeing your faces and seeing.

544
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: What did you see? What did you see? Was it?

545
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: Was it the classic wide eyes shocked? Were they?

546
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, you can almost imagine what the scene

547
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: would have been. Like you it's when someone gets shocked

548
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: in a movie, you know, when you're but this is

549
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: real life, you know, this is the things that they

550
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: can ultimately help with or not. And and in that moment,

551
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: they all jumped to action really and you know, me

552
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: being the combat first data, you know, I knew what

553
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: to do next. So I was like, boys, you need

554
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: to get my av out. You get my first, get

555
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: my kid out. So they busted the kid out and

556
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: started getting the lines and everything ready.

557
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: But so you're hope you're fully copas mentors, So you're

558
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: basically because you're the combat medic on the ground as well.

559
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: And I know we're the same. We've got dems expert,

560
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: we've got sniper with us in our patrol. We've got

561
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: a medic, you know, a combat medic. So you're the

562
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: combat medic. You've been hit, you're not falling in and

563
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: out of consciousness, and you're literally talking them through and

564
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 2: you're that copas mentor. Do you think it was it

565
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: was shocked that was keeping you there or.

566
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: Probably a bit of everything, really, but I think adrenaline

567
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: had a lot to deal with it. Like you know

568
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: that the knowledge of the training that I had been given,

569
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: but also the situation demanded someone or something, and maybe

570
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: it was that. Maybe it was the pain, maybe it

571
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: was something else. Who knows, And I'd like to think

572
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: that the training paid a big part. You know, we

573
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: talked about eleven months of pre deployment training and part

574
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: of that time was you know, doing specific combat first

575
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: aid under these these situations. Obviously, training is a lot

576
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: different from real life, as we spoke about, but you know,

577
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: the protocols, feeling the things that you were taught about

578
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: through signs and symptoms. It was a really interesting feeling

579
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: to have blood loss shock, like what does that feel like?

580
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: What is Oh? This is what that is?

581
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: Like?

582
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: Ship boys, we need to do this, like, get get

583
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: the IV out. Thankfully that some another combat first day

584
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: ADA came in his name Stephen Court, infantry guy, and

585
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: he took over that because doing IVS on someone who's

586
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: got blood loss shocks is pretty tricky anyway. So and he,

587
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, to his credit, nailed it, fucking nailed it

588
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: and got it in. I got the got the IV

589
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: into my arm. I had all like my arm was

590
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: all smashed up and burns and scars and stuff. Across

591
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: my arm as well. So he did a good job.

592
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: And the boys then stood up, was like, oh what next?

593
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: What next? Like morphine would be good? Ah, So trying

594
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: to trying to talk them through the morphine pro sess

595
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: because you know, they are not trained in this that

596
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: particular stuff. And as I said, I don't know where

597
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: I was getting the numbers from, but they were coming out,

598
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: and they were coming pretty accurate. And the boys did everything,

599
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, everything that ultimately saved my life. And you know,

600
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: I can sit there and lay and rattle off a

601
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: way of doing something, but without the actions or the

602
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: hands to do them, what you how are you going

603
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: to do it? So? And that's you know, that's the

604
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: to their credit and their courage and their bravery was

605
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: was the reason why I'm able to tell the story.

606
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm being paining the ass, you know,

607
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: sitting up and checking that the bandages are tight and

608
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: the torny caves haven't come loose and that sort of stuff.

609
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously the patrol commanders whose name Lieutenant Harris,

610
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: he was, you know, on the radio relaying this this

611
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: medical evat what we call a NATO nine liner to

612
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: get someone out nine lines of information sent off to

613
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: the medical and then the chop is on its way,

614
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: and you know, we're bloody a long way away, like

615
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: forty five minute flight from from where the choppers are

616
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: coming from. And you know, they picked me up, popped

617
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: me onto the stretcher and start to carry me to

618
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: the harbor of our vehicles. Harbor is like a defensive

619
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: position for those unfamiliar with that term. At nighttime, we

620
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: sort of set up a night harbor and that sort

621
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: of thing. And it's probably about four or five hundred

622
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: meters on the side of a dirt goat track and

623
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: they carry me all that way. I feel like I'm

624
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: going to fall off and sort of leaning one way

625
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: and the poor buggers on the high side of the

626
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: hill would have head all my weight.

627
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,239
Speaker 2: And you're still, and you're still. You can remember this

628
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: as clear as day, so you're still. Do you feel

629
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: like that that you have to do this, Curtis? Do

630
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: you feel like or do you feel like because you

631
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: are copismntis and you know, trained and an expert in

632
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: the field of combat medic, do you feel like that

633
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: you just have to just keep an eye on yourself.

634
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: Is it not a moment that you just thought, you

635
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: know what, the guy's crack on another or was that

636
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: not just the mindset that you were in.

637
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, not not necessarily. I felt I felt okay, Like

638
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the pain was pretty heavy, but that

639
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: was it. Like I didn't feel like I was going

640
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: to die, not at this point anyway, Like everything was

641
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: sort of progressing as we'd been trained. But the interesting

642
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: thing about what you're when you do your training, they

643
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: didn't actually talk about the point where you actually can't

644
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: do anything. More like you've done everything you've been trained

645
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: to do, and then you just have to wait. And

646
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: that's the hard part, like sitting there waiting for this chopic. Yeah,

647
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: you can go around and do your jobs and checks again,

648
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: but but to what end? Like to want for what?

649
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: Like what are we what are we waiting for? What

650
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: is what is the next time?

651
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: I love what you just said there, Curtis. I love

652
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: what you just said. At no stage did you think

653
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: that you were going to die. And I always go

654
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: back to a positive mindset. You know the power of

655
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: positive thinking. You know when you give up, and you

656
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: know when you think that you're going to die, well,

657
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: you know probably or if that's psychological how to call it,

658
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: you know where you just doubt? Shall we say that

659
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: you put in your head? You said that you never

660
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: thought that you were going to die, even though you'd

661
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: lost both legs, your arms messed up, you know, you

662
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: don't know about any internal bleeding. And did you genuinely

663
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: believe that you weren't going to die? And was there

664
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: ever a moment in the situation that was unfolding or

665
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, coming out that that you thought that you

666
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: were going to die?

667
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah there was. But I'll just go back a

668
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: wee bit because as I'm getting carried on the stretcher,

669
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: I could hear a little bit of sobbing behind me,

670
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: and you know, the boys are carrying my gear what's

671
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: left in my cat? And I was like fuck, like

672
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: this is this is pretty ship? Like this is bad?

673
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: And if I can say something to sort of a

674
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: bit of band are going on, like oh good one,

675
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: you blow up your brand new boats because they were

676
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: a brand new and I was still trying to still

677
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: trying to wear them in, so they're pretty uncomfy and

678
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: I was wondering about them lot, and the boys, Oh

679
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: you know how lucky you are to get to go

680
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: home and go on holiday. I was right. So there's

681
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: a bit of banter going on, and you know, there's

682
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: a good, good sort of good lads. And and then

683
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: I said, guys, I'll be fine, I'll be fine. I'll

684
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: just go to the Paralympics or something. And I have

685
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: to give a bit of context to the time. Right,

686
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 1: We've just had the Olympics, you know, Oscar the story

687
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: this is just run in the London Olympics, like blowing

688
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: everyone's mind, like how the fuck does this guy keep

689
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: up with the Olympians. And then we've got the Paralympics

690
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: in London coming in a few weeks and that that's

691
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: sort of the what we would come back from patrol

692
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: and watch the watch the games and stuff and see

693
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: the promotion from Channel four at that time, and it

694
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: was it was pretty inspiring. And you know in that

695
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: moment like you know, boys, i'll be fun. I'll just

696
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: go to the Paralympics or something. And you know, just

697
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: to just to give a little bit of you know,

698
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't a promise. It was it was a promise

699
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 1: of hope, you know, just to say I'll be okay,

700
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: I'll be okay. And that was you know, a nice

701
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: moment and it's one of my The boys, you know,

702
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: shot back with some banter and you're better and the

703
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: green and gold and all that sort of stuff, because

704
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: being a Kiwi, you know, your affinity the New Zealand

705
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: sporting teams are pretty pretty tight. But and then they

706
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: laid me down next to the vehicles, and as I

707
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: pointed out, there was nothing more to do first aid wise,

708
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: you just keep going back and forward, around and round

709
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: and check everything. And I knew that the longer that

710
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: that helicopter would take, the close I'd come to death.

711
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: And that's when I was like, oh shit, this is bad.

712
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: Like I'm a long way away from where I need

713
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: to be for anything more to happen, and there is

714
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: nothing more that the boys can do for me. I'm

715
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable with the amount of morphine the boys had

716
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: given me, and I was, you know, then I started

717
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: to get worried. I was like, oh shit, this is bad,

718
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: like I'm probably going to die here, and you know

719
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: it was it was pretty terrifying. You know. I didn't

720
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: want to die there. I didn't want to die in

721
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: those circumstances. I didn't want to be in Afghanistan for

722
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: this moment, and you see, we all realized that, we

723
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: all understand that it could happen, but when it's drawn out,

724
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of as a daunting prospect that, yeah, have

725
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: you done everything you wanted to do in your life?

726
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: Is this it? Like? Is that it? And given you

727
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: know what I'd experienced, looking back on it, it's not

728
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: a bad life, but shit like, I was pretty keen

729
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: on surviving and getting through that and coming out the

730
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: other side and seeing my friends and family again. And

731
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: I pulled my mate pitch and again, and I said,

732
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: you're don't have to go on to my laptop and

733
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: print off some letters to my family death letters to

734
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: say I wasn't coming home, and giving that to a

735
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: nineteen year older I was twenty four, so I was

736
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: the oldest of the lot of the brake. But knowing

737
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: that that burden was quite a heavy one, I thought

738
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: on that and that was probably one of the hardest

739
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: things I'd ever have to do. But then you know,

740
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden that the choppers rock up and

741
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: flip me up and take me away. And that's when

742
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: I sort of went in and out of consciousness. I

743
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: sort of maybe come to the fact that oh I'm okay.

744
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: Now there was a proper special Forces medic on the

745
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: on the helicopter and ripped out the IV and put

746
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: it in a new one and a bigger bore and

747
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff, so much more sort of specialized.

748
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: Not not to say that Cordy didn't do a good job,

749
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: because obviously that I survived to that point, and it

750
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: was just, you know, I was sort of relieved and

751
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: maybe relinquish my first day duties to this bloke that

752
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: knew what the fuck was doing, because it.

753
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: Was, yeah, you could finally hand over, yeah, that responsibility.

754
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: You were not to say that, as I said, Cordy

755
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: was doing good job. It was you know, I felt

756
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: like I was, I was okay, but then I realized

757
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, Like I feel tired, and

758
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, you sort of it's when you drift off

759
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: to sleep. It's a sort of a similar feeling, and

760
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden I'm in an ambulance and

761
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: then I'm unconscious, and all of a sudden I'm in

762
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: a trauma band. Then I'm unconscious, and then I wake

763
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: up like fifteen hours later, I'm like, oh shit, like

764
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: where am I? And I'd gone through Candahar and then

765
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: back up to bag Me base and woke up after

766
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: having heaps of surgery.

767
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: So you wake up fifteen hours later and where are

768
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: you and what's happened to you? And when is the

769
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: realization that you know, obviously you realize your legs have

770
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: been blown off, but when do you realize the extent

771
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: of the injuries and the life changing injuries.

772
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: One of the first things I remember noticing was like,

773
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: why is my hand or wrapped up? And like it

774
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: was covered in like big bandages all the way down

775
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 1: to pretty much my elbow, and obviously had highlighted that

776
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: some big injuries had happened there. I had big ivs

777
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: in my arm with fluid and morephane lis.

778
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: And this is when you woke up fifteen hours later.

779
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: You're just like now you're yeah, yeah.

780
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: Ship, my arms all busted up. Must have broken busted.

781
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: I remember, like it was very I was like, holy shit,

782
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: like that all happened. And I was waiting in this

783
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: waiting room with like four other American soldiers that had

784
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: been blown up as well. There was an Air Force,

785
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: Australian Air Force nurse there with me. Sally was her name,

786
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, this is what's happened. This is

787
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,959
Speaker 1: where we're going. We're flying out of Bagram Air Base

788
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: to Germany Lands to hospital in Ramstone Airbase near Frankfurt,

789
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: and flying out on an American C seventeen, getting out

790
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: of the country. And I was very down. I was obviously,

791
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, a bit sort of defeated is

792
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: probably the best word. There's nothing I could do. I

793
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: couldn't even get out of the bed. I was still

794
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: in a little bit of pain, but at the same time,

795
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, pretty sad and felt very very sorry for myself.

796
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: But then given the circumstances of the people around me.

797
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: When I got loaded onto the plane, there was two

798
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: dudes up the front, and you know, on my plane

799
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: there was double stack bunks and then on the other

800
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: side was seated or walking wounded. So they walked in

801
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: with broken arms and busted up faces and stuff like that,

802
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: and they sat down, and then up the front there

803
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: was two guys having surgery on the flight, so like

804
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: actively dying on the plane. And I was like, shit,

805
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: this war is big, Like this is much bigger than

806
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: I realized. And I was there, I was a part

807
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: of this thing, and I had no idea this was

808
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: going on, and it was like this realization that the

809
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: conflict has a huge cost. And it's not just money.

810
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: It's not just a tank or it's not just you know,

811
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: this this plane. It's the people that are in that plane,

812
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: but also the people that witness the injuries that they sustained.

813
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: You know that the injuries the boys coming up, the

814
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: hell towards me patch putting on the twenty, that effect

815
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: on them also as a cost that needs to be considered.

816
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: And that's why you know, the mental health problem might

817
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: seem much bigger than the health problem from our service.

818
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: And that you know, those those witnessing and those experiences

819
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: that may be remotely affected. You know, you don't even

820
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: have to be there to be affected by these these events.

821
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: And that's you know, think about the other guys that

822
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 1: have to go out and do the job that we

823
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: couldn't do well, we failed to do and wouldn't say failed,

824
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: but we we did our job to a certain point

825
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: where we became ineffective because we're a team teamman down,

826
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: So we have to send another team out there. They

827
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: have to go out and then do that job. Like

828
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: what sort of mental state do they have to be

829
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: and to go out and do a job where they

830
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: mate just got blown up. You know that that all

831
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: these elements play into a moment where you think, shit,

832
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: this war is big and it costs.

833
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: A lot, and you were part of You were part

834
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: of that, right you were there realizing that as that

835
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: was going on again, super aware, you know, wow, you know,

836
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 2: kudos to you mate to be being so alert all

837
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: the time you land in your land in Germany. What

838
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: happens in that process? And also, I'm going to throw

839
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: this at you, are you still thinking or that thought

840
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: process of being a para Olympian or you know, and

841
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: again I've thrown that out. There was a bit of

842
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: bunza because you mentioned it and you happened to be

843
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: be an athlete in the Paralympics a few months a

844
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: few months later, right.

845
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of obviously a lot of healing and all

846
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. But you know, I remember being

847
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: on that jobber where as I spoke about and feeling

848
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: very defeated, and I think that's the feeling I felt

849
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: for many months, very defeated in the sense of I'm

850
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: no longer the person I thought I was, And I

851
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: think that was the big, the big factor in my

852
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: mind during my rehabilitation, I have just got a heal

853
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: and get back to some sort of no melody of

854
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: what I was before, and that was upstanding walking and

855
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: I'll ad met. One of the first things I did

856
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 1: when I got my prosthetics was go and walk into

857
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: the bathroom to a urinal and take his pis standing

858
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: up like it's a very odd thing to do, but

859
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: it was felt like me. And that's that's felt something

860
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: of normality, and that was something that you know, not

861
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: many people talk about. You know, what are the simple

862
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: things that mean that you're you're healing and you're getting better,

863
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: And for me that was that was one of them.

864
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then I started to ponder about what

865
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: to do and where to go and who I was

866
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: and what sort of purpose could I find myself pursuing.

867
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: And I was I was always sporting. I always enjoyed

868
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: being outdoors, enjoying sport. Not always outdoors, but you know,

869
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: I enjoyed sport full stop. And I was like, well,

870
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: that's familiar to me. I might as well get involved

871
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: with that, and sort of got taken over to the

872
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: San Diego to Camp Pedalden in the us and went

873
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: and did the marine trial games and tried sport of

874
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: all different things. But what was really this is six

875
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: months after the injury was yeah, six seven months? Yeah wow?

876
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: You know, considering that you you know, us six months before,

877
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: seven months before you were lying on you know, on

878
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: on on the ground, you're literally you're you're back in it,

879
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: aren't you. You know, were as in as much as you

880
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: can do in a short amount of time. It's phenomenal, mate, phenomenal.

881
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was very special and special because not just

882
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: because I was, you know, experiencing new things and on

883
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: a different adventure again, but it was because I got

884
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: to see people who had been through similar experiences doing

885
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: things that I didn't know existed or didn't know how

886
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: to do, and I got to see it firsthand. And

887
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's part of what the Paralympics is

888
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: a little bit about. You know, it's showing humans what

889
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: is possible despite the ailment, despite the challenge, and it's

890
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, excelling at that stuff at the Paralympic level.

891
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not I'm not talking about the Paralympics

892
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: at this this moment. This is like literally using sport

893
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: to heal and to rehabilitate and connect and do all

894
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: the things that's sport is so good at doing. And

895
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: I think that's why it needs to play a bigger

896
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: part in our and our health system because it's got

897
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: so many benefits, not just you know, the healing part,

898
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: the mental part. It's connecting people to like minded things

899
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: that have been through similar experiences. And that was what

900
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 1: I was feeling. That's what And I'm a strong believer.

901
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: You can't be what you can't see, and when you

902
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: get to see it, you're like, shit, yeah, I can

903
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: see myself and.

904
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: That I love that. Mate. You can't be what you

905
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: can't see. That's so true.

906
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's important on TV if we don't see

907
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: people with disability, disabled people, disabled kids can't see themselves

908
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: and doing things that would otherwise be frowned upon or

909
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, not the norm. And I think that's important

910
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: to remember that. We have to get people to understand

911
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: that accessibility isn't just about putting a ramp with them

912
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: stairs out. It's a mindset people allowing people to accept

913
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: that different ways of doing things is okay. It's you

914
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: don't have to reinvent the wheel each time. But you

915
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: can definitely do it a different regardless of the challenge,

916
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: but in that that's that moment, you know, obviously in

917
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: Victor's Games spawned, you know, Prince Harry got the idea

918
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, which was the year that I was

919
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: a part of of that process and got into sport

920
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: at the like high performance sport. At the end of

921
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, I was like, all right, I'm going to

922
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: try different things. I tried paddling, I tried archery, I

923
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: tried athletics, I tried basketball, swimming, but I ultimately wanted

924
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: a sport that I really enjoyed and did when I

925
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: was growing up, and that was paddling and being outside

926
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: and on the water and enjoying it. And you know,

927
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: picked up the paddle in December twenty thirteen and was

928
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: thrown right into the mix and Moscow and World Championships

929
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: about eight nine months later. So it was it was

930
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: a very fast and accelerated experience, but at the same

931
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: time it was one that I found myself. I found purpose,

932
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: I found a reason to get up in the morning.

933
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: I found a team, I found community, and I think

934
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: all of the things that I just spoke about then

935
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: and you sport can bring all that together, and giving

936
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: people goals and ambition beyond what people might think as

937
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: possible for them is super important.

938
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: And what was your goal? So you say giving people

939
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: goals because you listen that you've you've sort of scraped

940
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: over what you've done, but can't when you got into

941
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: the Paralympics and you the Invictors Games, it just sort

942
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: of snowballed in a positive way from there, didn't it.

943
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 2: You just set yourself goal after goal and you achieved

944
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: and achieved. It took me through some of the your

945
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: career thus far in the you know, in the sort

946
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: of the Paralympics.

947
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, so obviously Paralympics happens every four years, regardless of

948
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: the COVID situation, but the whole process that, you know,

949
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: to qualify and to change. I had to change boats

950
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: sort of in the year of qualifying, and that was

951
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: true because I was doing an outroag canoe, which is

952
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: nice and safe and doesn't roll or to it was

953
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: very hard to steer it. And then they change it

954
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: to the kayak and yeah, I'd done a bit of

955
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: kayaking before, but not in a sprint kayak. These things

956
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: are you know, you look at them sideways and they

957
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: throw you out. So's it was a tough journey, but

958
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: I had an amazing coach, Andrew World, and she helped

959
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: me develop that that sort of high performance mindset. Doing

960
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: a little bit more maybe you know, the military gave

961
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: me a lot of that too, but she enabled me

962
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: and equipped me with the skills that ultimately led to

963
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: become a paralympian. Lining up in Rio in twenty sixteen,

964
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: like christ Redema Statue there and Copacabana Beach just over there,

965
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: all my drunk mates from the army and life and

966
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: school and everything all in the stands at nine point

967
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning. Was it was an awesome feeling

968
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: to say what I said on the stretcher, you know,

969
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: not giving them a promise, but you know something an

970
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: idea that planted a seed and it's flourished and didn't

971
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 1: growing into this. That was a really remarkable journey to

972
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: go from you know, four years before delaying on the

973
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: stretches of lining up and being in that moment was

974
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: was really special and I'm super proud of that. But

975
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: I'm proud of the people that supported me in order

976
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: to get there, and that was you know, super. I can't.

977
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: I can't say that story without their help. You know

978
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: that they're the reason why I'm there, and you know,

979
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: the part or part of the reason I'm there. And

980
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: and then racing down the lane and coming across the

981
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 1: line in first place and winning that first goal was

982
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: pretty special. And for me, you know, lining up and

983
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: rio was was the goal. And you know, I think

984
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: we always have like we don't want to go into

985
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: something and not be the best at that, especially in

986
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: high performance sport. You don't want to line up there

987
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: and get second or fourth or seventh and anything else.

988
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: You want to go there and win. And I didn't

989
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: realize I could win and tell maybe that the day

990
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: on the heats when I was like, oh shit, like

991
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good. I might have the opportunity of

992
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: taking this thing out. And then you know, I just

993
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: need to nail my start and get through the race

994
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: and do the things I've been training to do. And

995
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: as I pointed out you said at the start, you

996
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: train and train and train, and you actually get to

997
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: bring it all together in a race is really special.

998
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: And it feels really good when you get the opportunity

999
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: to do that, and even more special when you get

1000
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: to execute it the right way and feel that achievement

1001
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: because it's not just you. Yes, I'm in that boat

1002
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: by myself, but there's so many people that getting me

1003
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: in there and making me in your physical condition, and

1004
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, the physios and sees, the sports science and

1005
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: coaches and family members and friends and teammates. It's a

1006
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: team sport for sure.

1007
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: Mate. What I've realized over the last hour that I've

1008
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 2: been speaking to you is that no matter what you're

1009
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: in all aspects of your life, your training has either

1010
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: saved your life or it's changed your life. How important

1011
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: is it to train as you mean to go on?

1012
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: Shall we say? Because everything that I heard from you,

1013
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: I trained for that, and I implemented I trained for

1014
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: I implement it. It saved my life, it changed my life.

1015
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: Training could be boring, it could be momotomous. But you

1016
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: know how important is it to train as you mean

1017
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 2: to go on?

1018
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'd be honest and I'd be fooled

1019
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: to admit that training every day works out just the

1020
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: way you want it to. Every day is different, and

1021
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: you wake up, you might have a bad sleep, or

1022
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: you might have you ate too much dinner and it's

1023
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: you know that, or you may date too much for

1024
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: breakfast and you go out there and you feel crap,

1025
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 1: and but executing the training regardless of feeling obviously within reason.

1026
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: You know, don't go out there with you're broken arm

1027
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: and try and bussy gut. I'm not David Goggins, that's

1028
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 1: for sure.

1029
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: But it's in your more hard call than David Goggins.

1030
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: Mate, it's just you know, thinking about the executing the

1031
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: way you want to do it and having that that

1032
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: idea that or that understanding that you need to be

1033
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: in the moment and the fear, the moments of uncomfortable

1034
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: to be to be better. And that's where we grow

1035
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: being uncomfortable, being comfortable, being uncomfortable.

1036
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 2: There's no growth in comfort.

1037
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Growth, Yeah, it's because we have to. We build,

1038
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: we learn, we develop ways of coping, We establish goals

1039
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: within goals within goals. And I love the analogy how

1040
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: do you eat an elephant? It's like one bide at

1041
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: a time. You just got to keep chipping away, just

1042
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: one little bit at a time. And it might be

1043
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: one of those moments where you wake up, oh man,

1044
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, and I often are

1045
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: in my warm ups being like, oh man, I don't

1046
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 1: want to do this session today. But you get halfway

1047
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: through it. This is shit, this is hard. I'm hurting,

1048
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm blowing, you know, I'm tired, I'm sweating, it's hot,

1049
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: it's cold, whatever it might be.

1050
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 2: And but I'm almost done to the finish.

1051
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get it to finish. Yeah, I did that.

1052
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 1: And then what I like doing as well is when

1053
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: you're in that moment near the end, or when you're like,

1054
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: I should probably just tell the coach it's a bit

1055
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: heart or I'm sore or something. And it's that mindset

1056
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: when you acknowledge that you're about to do that, that's

1057
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: when you pull yourself up. You're like, no, no, yourself. My

1058
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: competitors are probably probably gonna you know, some competitors probably like, nah,

1059
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this sessions to art or

1060
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: that next effort. Just do a little bit more. It's

1061
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more, you know, and you'll you'll reap

1062
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: the benefits come race day or whatever it is executing

1063
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: that your client or bid or or you know, getting

1064
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: the team together or whatever it is. There's so many

1065
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: aspects that we just do a little bit more and

1066
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 1: you get the opportunity to reap that reward and feel

1067
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: the feeling of success when it comes through, and little

1068
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: bits at a time, for sure, is definitely important.

1069
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 2: Piece by piece, step by step, commitment by commitment, right

1070
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: and finally, mate, last year you became a far a.

1071
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 2: How has that changed your life?

1072
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:07,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a different challenge, it's a different adventure and

1073
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: it's been an exciting one, but also ups and downs

1074
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: because Monty was born with a heart condition and required

1075
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: ICU and you know, heart surgery and all that sort

1076
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: of stuff. And that was two weeks before I went

1077
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: away to Paris for the Paralympic Games, and realizing that,

1078
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: you know, there's not too much I could do other

1079
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: than you know, emotionally support my wife and that process,

1080
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 1: and you know that's an important role and I tried

1081
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: to be there as best I could. But yeah, when

1082
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: we train to do something and we get an opportunity.

1083
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: I was also the co captain of the Australian Paralympic

1084
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: team and I wanted to go there and do that

1085
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: and fulfill that role and responsibility that I had to

1086
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 1: the team, but also, you know, make the best of

1087
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: my training, make the best of my opportunity that it is,

1088
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: and you know, I felt that there was an opportunity, sorry,

1089
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: a moment where I could have I've wasted that opportunity

1090
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to do that for anyone's sake,

1091
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 1: and to go there and represent them, my family, my

1092
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: country exactly, my teammates is important and there's obviously it's

1093
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: a sacrifice that you have to be content with. And

1094
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: did I make the right decision. I'm not sure. I'm

1095
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: still still not sure about that and maybe time will tell.

1096
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: But you know, he's walking now, is one next week,

1097
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: and it's been an exciting time and he's doing really well.

1098
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: So you know, my wife has been an amazing support

1099
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: right from the injury all the way through to parenthood

1100
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: and beyond, so's I wouldn't be able to do it

1101
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: without her for sure.

1102
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 2: Curtis, mate, you are the epitome of resilience, my friend.

1103
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: You're a legend, mate, and listen, I wish you all

1104
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 2: the best for the future. And I know there's more

1105
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: Paralympic stuff coming because you just joined the Paralympic board.

1106
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: So let's see what twenty thirty two holds for you, buddy.

1107
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: Look forward to it, mate, it's exactingly take care. Thanks Buddy, Cheers.

1108
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: For more of Curtis's story, check out his book, Blood, Sweat,

1109
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: and Still. It's out now. You can also follow him

1110
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 2: on Instagram. I'll put the links to both in the

1111
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: show notes. Thanks for joining me on this episode of

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00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 2: head Game. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave me

1113
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: a review. I'm Att Middleton. See you again next time.