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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we

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Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson and good morning Adam Lang.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Michael. Adam.

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Speaker 1: You have had a long career in the media, and

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't emphasize long. Yeah, but you've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of experience in media and music as well. But you

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Speaker 1: are also a CEO and executive coach. You do a

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Speaker 1: lot of work with performance by design, working with individuals

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Speaker 1: and teams on culture and performance. So please for today

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Speaker 1: put on that hat channel it yes, channel that a

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Speaker 1: hypothetical scenario of what to do if you have a

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Speaker 1: toxic colleague. Okay, so this is a very broad thing.

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Speaker 1: It can happen in any industry, in any workplace. But

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Speaker 1: a hypothetical scenario, say you've got to you get on

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Speaker 1: well in your workplace might be part of a larger company.

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Speaker 1: You might be a salesperson, for instance, but you understand

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Speaker 1: that one of your colleagues maybe taking credit for your work,

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Speaker 1: maybe throwing you under the bus a little bit, talking

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Speaker 1: about you behind your back, spreading rumors, perhaps to make

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Speaker 1: sure he gets the lion's share of new clients coming

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Speaker 1: through the door. How do you deal with this individual?

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Speaker 1: Do you confront him, do you make an anonymous report

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Speaker 1: to HR, do you complain to the boss, or do

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Speaker 1: you just go nuclear and quit.

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Speaker 2: Or do you just have a chat. So let's it,

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Speaker 2: confronting can be very very difficult, right, because it goes

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Speaker 2: to matters of trust and do you feel comfortable and

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Speaker 2: depending on how long you've been with a company and

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Speaker 2: how senior you are in years and experience competence, it

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Speaker 2: really matters to how you feel. But obviously, let's say

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Speaker 2: you perceive something is going wrong, don't sort of leap

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Speaker 2: to well, then it definitely is like there is a

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Speaker 2: possibility you may not be correct, You may not be

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Speaker 2: seeing everything for what it is, have all of the information.

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Speaker 1: Saying, we might go off half cock sometimes at it.

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Speaker 2: It's possible because you know, things can feel a certain

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Speaker 2: way doesn't mean they are a certain way. You know

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Speaker 2: that old expression of believe none of what you read

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Speaker 2: and hear in half of what you see. So did

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Speaker 2: you see it? You know? What do you actually know happened?

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Speaker 2: And try and speak to the person about that. And

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Speaker 2: one of the probably I guess suggestive ways of doing

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Speaker 2: that is, don't make it about the person being a

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Speaker 2: good or a bad person, or you thinking they've done

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Speaker 2: bad or done well. More about what was it the

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Speaker 2: behavior that you saw and why did it happen, and

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Speaker 2: see if you can talk to them on the basis

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Speaker 2: of the behavior and not person versus person.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you approach them, ask for a conversation, and

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Speaker 1: really this is largely information gathering. It is to establish

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Speaker 1: the facts of what's actually happened. And if it is

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Speaker 1: the case that this is what you have suspected is true,

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Speaker 1: do you just use that same opportunity to call them

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Speaker 1: out on it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that's the key here. But not

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Speaker 2: everyone feels well trained or drilled or experienced enough to

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Speaker 2: do that, So you might need to do it in steps,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes you could call upon your boss for advice

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Speaker 2: as to how to do that. But the sooner you

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Speaker 2: can do it, and the more minor the thing to question,

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Speaker 2: the better. Like the sooner you can calibrate your relationship

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Speaker 2: to fix the small stuff, the less it's likely to

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Speaker 2: become the big stuff. But let's just say you've got

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Speaker 2: hang on, this person took a client that was mine.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's pretty serious stuff and you probably need

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Speaker 2: to act on that. And the first thing is ideally

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Speaker 2: is to approach that person again, focus on the behavior.

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Speaker 2: You know, why is it that this has happened, what's

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Speaker 2: gone wrong or right? And talking to them about what

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Speaker 2: you think has gone wrong and whether or not it's

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Speaker 2: that that's resolvable between the two of you. And you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a difficult terrain, particularly where it involves hey, this

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Speaker 2: is my job, this is me attempting to do it. Well,

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Speaker 2: it looks like you're stopping me from doing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it becomes quite a personal thing.

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Speaker 2: Then, and I suppose it solutely go that way.

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Speaker 1: Trying to remove the personal element of it and just

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Speaker 1: make it about the business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're not comfortable having that conversation, it

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Speaker 2: can often be useful to talk to your boss about

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Speaker 2: this is what you think has happened, how do you

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Speaker 2: approach it, and maybe they want to be in the

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Speaker 2: room at the time, you know, to help supervise it

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Speaker 2: with the right level of seniority and experience around it

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Speaker 2: to make sure it's a good conversation not a damaging one, because.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit of a misconception. Then around the purpose

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Speaker 1: essentially of the HR department. Isn't it that it's not

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Speaker 1: so much a thing of filing a complaint with them

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Speaker 1: and just letting them handle it. This is a job

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Speaker 1: for you and potentially your your boss, your manager, your leader,

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Speaker 1: to work with the support potential of HR.

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Speaker 2: Right. Look, we are very much in the realm of

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Speaker 2: personal and professional opinion here, and professional my professional opinion

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Speaker 2: is absolutely right. I think the purpose of human relations

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Speaker 2: and departments of whether it's officer of people and culture

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing, is to help leaders lead well,

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Speaker 2: not to do their job for them. And really, when

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Speaker 2: you've got matters of conflict, that is one of the

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Speaker 2: first requirements of a great boss to do to work

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Speaker 2: with their teams so that you get that team environment

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Speaker 2: being productive all the time on the floor, right, rather

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Speaker 2: than having to say, oh, something's gone wrong quick, we'll

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Speaker 2: just send that to HR and one day we hope

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Speaker 2: they'll deal with it for us. I think that is

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Speaker 2: a mistake and in terms of too many people involved,

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Speaker 2: when it really should be resolvable with the smallest number

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Speaker 2: of people in the shortest amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we've established what you should do, how you

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Speaker 1: should approach it. We are short on time. But is

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Speaker 1: there anything that you shouldn't do apart from going really

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Speaker 1: personal and getting very kind of aggressive. Understand? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I think we can sayfully say that the nuclear option

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Speaker 1: is not the best bad But what else should we

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Speaker 1: rule out here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't assume, don't presume you know everything, ask don't

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Speaker 2: make it personal. Focus on the behavior, right, So don't

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Speaker 2: make it personal, and therefore, don't eliminate empathy for what

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Speaker 2: that person may have seen or be going through in

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Speaker 2: making that decision. And don't be so focused on what

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Speaker 2: you want to say that you don't even listen. Right,

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Speaker 2: Establishing empathy is absolutely important and making sure that you

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Speaker 2: know they know that you're listening.

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Speaker 1: That is great advice.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Adam, My pleasure, Michael.

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Speaker 1: If you've got something that you would like to know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps a workplace scenario that you would like, you can

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Speaker 1: post it as a hypothetical then send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: or go to Fear and Greed dot com dot au

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Speaker 1: and get in touch there. I'm Michael Thompson and this

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Speaker 1: is Fear and Greed. The Q and a