Michael Thompson: Welcome to How Do They Afford That, the podcast that
Michael Thompson: peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australian. So I'm
Michael Thompson: Michael Thompson. I'm an author and the co host of
Michael Thompson: the podcast Fear and Greed business news. As always, I'm
Michael Thompson: with Canna Campbell, financial planner and founder of SugarMammaTV, the
Michael Thompson: financial literacy platform that you'll find just about everywhere podcasts, books, Instagram, threads,
Michael Thompson: TikTok and more. Hello, Canna, what are we talking about today?
Canna Campbell: I love that you asked me that we are talking
Canna Campbell: about bit of context. First, I was talking recently with
Canna Campbell: a friend about superannuation, which don't laugh. Don't laugh, because
Canna Campbell: that is actually the kind of conversation that I have
Canna Campbell: with people now, because that is the effect that you
Canna Campbell: and doing this podcast has had on me. They asked
Canna Campbell: me if I had a self managed super fund because
Canna Campbell: they didn't know whether they needed one as well. I
Canna Campbell: don't have a self managed super fund, but it did
Canna Campbell: make me wonder who does have a self managed super fund?
Canna Campbell: Kind of why would you have a self managed super fund?
Canna Campbell: Who benefits from having a self managed super fund? How
Canna Campbell: much it costs, what a self managed super fund actually
Canna Campbell: is probably should have started with that one. So this
Canna Campbell: is what we're going to get into today. Do I
Canna Campbell: need a self managed super fund? Before we get into
Canna Campbell: it though? And I know that you are itching to
Canna Campbell: set me straight on all of this. Just please remember
Canna Campbell: that everything we talk about is always general in nature.
Canna Campbell: It is never personal investment, strategic or product advice. It
Canna Campbell: is purely for financial education purposes only.
Canna Campbell: That's correct. We don't think about your financial situation, so
Canna Campbell: always reach out and speak to a financial planner on
Canna Campbell: us then for personal advice in reference to your own situation.
Michael Thompson: Yeah. Absolutely, Let's start with the basics, shall we, Right
Michael Thompson: at the very very start. What exactly is a self
Michael Thompson: managed super fund?
Canna Campbell: All right? Think of it this way. So a normal, everyday,
Canna Campbell: you know, retail super innuation fund is like going to
Canna Campbell: a restaurant for dinner. You walk in, you get greeted,
Canna Campbell: you get served, you can pick from the menu, it
Canna Campbell: gets delivered to you, gets taken away, and you don't
Canna Campbell: need to worry about cleaning up whatsoever. It's very easy
Canna Campbell: and you can just sit back and relax and enjoy
Canna Campbell: your time in the restaurant.
Michael Thompson: You haven't been to a restaurant with me, have you?
Michael Thompson: I'm the most indecisive person. And so if there's a
Michael Thompson: group of people, I always make sure that I go
Michael Thompson: last to order because I need the extra time to decide.
Michael Thompson: And even then, by the time the waiter comes around
Michael Thompson: to me, I will not have decided. And it is
Michael Thompson: only the pressure put on me by the waiter to
Michael Thompson: make a decision so that they can in fact do
Michael Thompson: their job, that is what will help me decide.
Canna Campbell: It's not annoying at all.
Michael Thompson: That's exactly what Sean says, Please go on.
Canna Campbell: So a self managed super fund is like hosting, say
Canna Campbell: a dinner party instead of going to a restaurant, So
Canna Campbell: all the responsibility falls back on you. You need to
Canna Campbell: think about who you can invite, picking a date, time,
Canna Campbell: organizing a menu, going to the supermarket and buying all
Canna Campbell: the ingredients, obviously doing all the cooking, setting up the table,
Canna Campbell: making sure everyone's happy, has a glass of wine in
Canna Campbell: their hand or a refreshment, and that everyone's enjoying their meal,
Canna Campbell: and then obviously cleaning up after everyone has left. So
Canna Campbell: essentially that's the difference between the two.
Michael Thompson: So essentially one everything most things are done for you,
Michael Thompson: and the other one you're doing it.
Canna Campbell: All your stuff exactly but with most self management funds
Canna Campbell: you can only have maximum of six members, so your
Canna Campbell: dinner party is quite limited, unless, of course, you have
Canna Campbell: like a corporate trustee, which makes it a little bit different.
Canna Campbell: But this is quite popular and more and more people
Canna Campbell: have self managed super funds these days.
Michael Thompson: How popular are they? I'm assuming that they are growing
Michael Thompson: in popularity over time, particularly as there is a greater
Michael Thompson: focus on superannuation and what we're all doing with our superannuation.
Michael Thompson: There is more money going into super so I would
Michael Thompson: just assume that as an extent that there are more
Michael Thompson: people investigating smsfs as an option. That is a very
Michael Thompson: hard acronym to say. I'm just going to continue calling
Michael Thompson: them self managed super funds.
Canna Campbell: Yes, you're right, about twenty five percent of all superinnuation
Canna Campbell: assets are actually a self managed super fund. Really, there's
Canna Campbell: over six hundred thousand self mensagent funds in Australia and
Canna Campbell: one point one million members and there's a I believe,
Canna Campbell: just under nine hundred billion assets in a self masup
Canna Campbell: fund structure.
Michael Thompson: That is a lot. It's a lot lot more than
Michael Thompson: I was expecting. But if we look at the logic
Michael Thompson: behind it, and it probably leads me to my next
Michael Thompson: question of who is actually using a self managed super
Michael Thompson: fund that perhaps they are more perhaps savvy investors, possibly
Michael Thompson: earning more money, having a larger structure behind it, more
Michael Thompson: assets to put into this self managed super fund, so
Michael Thompson: they might actually be kind of sophisticated. Yeah, and as
Michael Thompson: a higher represent of higher income earners and things.
Canna Campbell: However, I will share a stat with you in a
Canna Campbell: few minutes that actually contradicts that.
Michael Thompson: Okay, come on, this is turning out, this.
Canna Campbell: Will say, I'll save it because we need to talk about.
Michael Thompson: Who is actually it is on track to become the
Michael Thompson: most confusing episode we have done. We started with the
Michael Thompson: most convoluted restaurant analogy I have ever heard. It was
Michael Thompson: good until you suddenly said no, your dinner party is
Michael Thompson: only allowed to have six people unless you have a
Michael Thompson: corporate structure for your dinner party. Or okay, all right,
Michael Thompson: this is this is getting intense. So okay, so who
Michael Thompson: does tend to have one? Were sophisticated investors? Yes?
Canna Campbell: So business owners, high income earners often mum and dad
Canna Campbell: and investors as well, like to have a self manage
Canna Campbell: super fun But you are right, it's typically people who have,
Canna Campbell: you know, a large amount of experience when it comes
Canna Campbell: to investing, and you know they have a you know,
Canna Campbell: sophisticated investment strategy, because one of the key reasons why
Canna Campbell: people would use a self manag super fund is because
Canna Campbell: you have more control over the underlying investment. You know.
Canna Campbell: I was talking to someone the other day who is
Canna Campbell: actually invested in racehorse breeding in their self made a
Canna Campbell: super fund. And I know people who've looked at including
Canna Campbell: art as part of their overall investment strategy.
Michael Thompson: So imagine it's hard to invest in racehorse breeding going
Michael Thompson: through your your main super fund if you were.
Canna Campbell: Going on under a retail fund. Absolutely, so it does
Canna Campbell: give people that sort of control and flexibility.
Michael Thompson: All right, is there then? And going back to the
Michael Thompson: question asked of me by my friend and kind of
Michael Thompson: do I have one? Why would I have one? And
Michael Thompson: at what point should I start considering one? Is there
Michael Thompson: a threshold at which it's something that you might actually
Michael Thompson: start considering? For instance, I know that part of what
Michael Thompson: part of the reason you would do it would be
Michael Thompson: to have greater control over the assets and things within
Michael Thompson: your superannuation. But is there a minimum amount that you
Michael Thompson: need to have in order to make it at least Worthwhile.
Canna Campbell: There's no official threshold as such, but because it's expensive
Canna Campbell: to set up and to maintain, the general rule of
Canna Campbell: thumb is between about two hundred and fifty thousand to
Canna Campbell: five hundred thousand in order for to be cost effective.
Michael Thompson: Okay, And that says the minimum the starting point, and
Michael Thompson: then from there you're growing exactly. Okay, big one for you. Now,
Michael Thompson: how do they work? I know this is a meaty,
Michael Thompson: meaty question and there is no one set kind of
Michael Thompson: structure for them, but just broadly, how do they work?
Canna Campbell: Well, you have to apply online and then you have
Canna Campbell: to register them with the ATO, and then you have
Canna Campbell: to open up a bank account, and if you're going
Canna Campbell: to be having an online trading account, you need like
Canna Campbell: a broker account as well. So there is a lot
Canna Campbell: of paperwork involved, and there's a lot of documentation about
Canna Campbell: the investment strategy behind it, and also understanding all the
Canna Campbell: rules and regulations that go into making sure that it
Canna Campbell: is compliant and you understand like for example, the reports,
Canna Campbell: the tax obligations, the audio and so forth. It's a
Canna Campbell: lot of time involved.
Michael Thompson: To be honest, there really is. It does sound as
Michael Thompson: though it is the kind of thing that if you
Michael Thompson: are considering it, it is a conversation straight away with
Michael Thompson: a financial advisor, financial planner.
Canna Campbell: And an accountant, and so they really do need to
Canna Campbell: sit down and go through all the expenses and the
Canna Campbell: responsibilities because they all those responsibilities and risks actually come
Canna Campbell: back onto your own shoulders. So it's not for everyone.
Michael Thompson: Okay, So if I was just to put together a
Michael Thompson: bit of a checklist, you want to make sure that
Michael Thompson: you have got enough assets to make it worthwhile to
Michael Thompson: begin just as your initial kind of starting point. You
Michael Thompson: want to actually make sure that you have a need
Michael Thompson: for it that can't be met by an existing industry
Michael Thompson: fund or a retail super fund, in that you want
Michael Thompson: more control over where it is going, or that you've
Michael Thompson: got very particular ideas for what you want to do
Michael Thompson: with the money and the assets within your superannuation, something
Michael Thompson: that can't be met by one of these other funds
Michael Thompson: where they manage the whole process for you exactly.
Canna Campbell: And you also need time. You know, there is a
Canna Campbell: lot of time that is involved in running a self
Canna Campbell: manage super fund as well as the risk and the responsibility.
Michael Thompson: I want to get to some of the risks and
Michael Thompson: the responsibilities as part of it, but just finishing off
Michael Thompson: the checklist. Then you need to make sure that you're
Michael Thompson: having this conversation with your accountant, with your financial advisor
Michael Thompson: to see whether it is actually going to be beneficial
Michael Thompson: for you or whether you're just going to be making
Michael Thompson: a massive amount of work for yourself that could potentially
Michael Thompson: put you in a hole exactly.
Canna Campbell: And one of the most important conversations I'd recommend someone
Canna Campbell: speak to a financial planner and an accountant about whether
Canna Campbell: or not a self manship fund is right for them
Canna Campbell: is what are the tax benefits. So I talk a
Canna Campbell: lot about this thing called in specie transfer benefits and
Canna Campbell: essentially is where you can avoid triggering capital gains tax
Canna Campbell: when you go to retire because with most industry and
Canna Campbell: retail superannuation accounts, when you shift your assets from accumulation
Canna Campbell: phase to a pension phase, use trigger a capital gains tax. Now,
Canna Campbell: obviously that capital gains tax depends on how long you've
Canna Campbell: held that asset, but it ranges between ten to fifteen percent. However,
Canna Campbell: with some special retail supernuation accounts, and there aren't many,
Canna Campbell: but with self managed super funds, you can actually, depending
Canna Campbell: on the structure, avoid having to pay this tax because
Canna Campbell: they have this thing called an n specie transfer benefit
Canna Campbell: within a self manage super fund, So asking your accountant
Canna Campbell: and financial planner to sit down and explain and see
Canna Campbell: whether that is actually relevant and applicable to you. If
Canna Campbell: you have this self married super fund may actually give
Canna Campbell: you some great long term tax savings if it's not
Canna Campbell: available in your current retail or industry supernation fund.
Michael Thompson: Okay, we're going to take a quick break. When we
Michael Thompson: come back, I want to talk a little bit more
Michael Thompson: about some of the benefits. Some of the big risks though,
Michael Thompson: because you do need to go into this process with
Michael Thompson: your eyes very much wide open, some of the costs
Michael Thompson: associated with the regulation. We talked about, the paperwork and
Michael Thompson: the red tape. It's starting to sound I'm not saying
Michael Thompson: you've turned me off an SMSF, but you are certainly
Michael Thompson: making it very very clear to me that there is
Michael Thompson: a lot more involved.
Canna Campbell: I'll explain why in second very good.
Michael Thompson: Cana. We are talking today about superannuation. We are talking
Michael Thompson: more specifically about self managed super funds and do you
Michael Thompson: need one, who are they suited to, how do they work?
Michael Thompson: Everything that you could possibly need to know about smsfs.
Michael Thompson: We did touch on the main benefits. It is all
Michael Thompson: about having greater control over your money, over your assets,
Michael Thompson: and being able to be quite directive in terms of
Michael Thompson: where it's going. Is that the number one benefit along
Michael Thompson: with the tax kind of reasons as to why you
Michael Thompson: might do it.
Canna Campbell: I'd say that the two sort of key reasons. Obviously,
Canna Campbell: you know, the bigger the self managed super fund is
Canna Campbell: the potential savings as well, and obviously you have maybe
Canna Campbell: some state planning benefits along the way. But also you
Canna Campbell: can you know, if you've got say up to six members,
Canna Campbell: you can potentially buy an asset that you wouldn't be
Canna Campbell: able to afford to buy in your superannuation alone. So
Canna Campbell: you know, you might see a commercial property and between
Canna Campbell: you and your other members you can afford to buy
Canna Campbell: that commercial property, whereas you wouldn't have been able to have
Canna Campbell: that wasn't an opportunity that you can consider it was
Canna Campbell: just you on your own and these other members.
Michael Thompson: Are they typically kind of family? For instance? Is that
Michael Thompson: what you would most often see or are you talking
Michael Thompson: about kind of It wouldn't be colleagues and things. It
Michael Thompson: is more the people that you are actually planning for
Michael Thompson: retirement with, right.
Canna Campbell: Yes, is the most common with families, and occasionally you
Canna Campbell: know business partners.
Michael Thompson: Okay from a dad investors, Yeah, sure. That is interesting though,
Michael Thompson: that you would do it in order to buy a
Michael Thompson: larger asset, which because I have heard about people that
Michael Thompson: are buying property, buildings, et cetera, and then setting it
Michael Thompson: all up with their financial planner and their accountant to
Michael Thompson: actually make the most of having access to a larger
Michael Thompson: asset and potentially an asset that's that's got a fairly
Michael Thompson: good return attached to it. So in some circumstances different
Michael Thompson: types of property.
Canna Campbell: Yes, exactly. And I've seen situations where people have gone
Canna Campbell: in together and they're you know, knocked things down or
Canna Campbell: rebuilt things or renovated things and onsold them and they've
Canna Campbell: never been able to have that opportunity when they're on
Canna Campbell: their own.
Michael Thompson: The risks, and this is probably the big one, and
Michael Thompson: we've there are so many. Okay, all right, well let's
Michael Thompson: try and condense them down into say two minutes. If
Michael Thompson: you had to rank them, What would be the biggest
Michael Thompson: risk here? Is it getting in over your head.
Canna Campbell: There are huge responsibilities, so you've got to comply with
Canna Campbell: some pretty complicated superannuation laws and the penalties are quite scary.
Canna Campbell: So penalties up to forty five percent of the fund's
Canna Campbell: market asset value.
Michael Thompson: Oh wow, So it's not just a monetary figure that
Michael Thompson: they nominate. It is actually based on the amount within
Michael Thompson: the fund itself.
Canna Campbell: It can be so it can be fines that you know,
Canna Campbell: and then of course there's legal costs as well, and
Canna Campbell: even up jail time up to five years if you
Canna Campbell: haven't intentionally that is of course broken the laws. So
Canna Campbell: this is why it's so important. You've got to go
Canna Campbell: in eyes wide open to know that you are completely
Canna Campbell: comfortable taking on all these risks and they stack up
Canna Campbell: on your advantage. The other risk is obviously it's time consuming.
Canna Campbell: I don't know a single person right now who has
Canna Campbell: the time to take on these types of responsibilities. And
Canna Campbell: I know I probably I am a bit anti self
Canna Campbell: managed super funds, which I'll explain in a second, but
Canna Campbell: you know, there's a lot of ongoing management required, investment decisions,
Canna Campbell: huge amounts of paperwork. You know, you've got to make
Canna Campbell: sure you've actually got the time to stay on top
Canna Campbell: of these responsibilities and also all the deadlines that go
Canna Campbell: along with the paperwork. It also can be really expensive
Canna Campbell: for small superannuation balances, which is why I said you
Canna Campbell: want to make sure that you've got a decent amount
Canna Campbell: of money between you, because there's all the annual fees,
Canna Campbell: the compliance costs, the professional co of an accountant, and
Canna Campbell: I find your partner if you're using them, So sometimes
Canna Campbell: it's not necessarily efficient. And then you've got the investment
Canna Campbell: risk and only you'll put yourself to blame if things
Canna Campbell: go wrong. And if you've got family members involved or
Canna Campbell: so you're doing with friends, if they aren't happy that
Canna Campbell: the returns and the results, it can cause issues, especially
Canna Campbell: if you then need to wind things down and you
Canna Campbell: need to debate buy someone out. And it's not a
Canna Campbell: liquid asset. This is where the wheels can come off
Canna Campbell: quite quickly.
Michael Thompson: Wow, there's a lot of risks.
Canna Campbell: I sound negative and blank's main.
Michael Thompson: Why So why are you antiet? I mean there could
Michael Thompson: be any one of those those things, but is there
Michael Thompson: a main reason?
Canna Campbell: Well, speaking from experience, so I have had so many
Canna Campbell: people come to me and say, Canna, we've got this
Canna Campbell: self managed super fund. There's so much involved. We didn't
Canna Campbell: really understand what we were signing up to in the
Canna Campbell: first place. Our accountant recommended it. It's expensive and when
Canna Campbell: I sit down and look at what's going on most
Canna Campbell: of the time. That money has been sitting in cash
Canna Campbell: for the last five, six, seven years, So you know,
Canna Campbell: and I think it was not recommended in the right
Canna Campbell: type of way for these particular people. The money wasn't
Canna Campbell: managed properly, and it's potentially have compliance issues because it
Canna Campbell: hasn't followed necessarily an investment strategy, because the documentation wasn't
Canna Campbell: done correctly. So you know, that could have sat in
Canna Campbell: a retail or an industry fund in cash and they
Canna Campbell: would have had no stresses, no paperwork. Yes, they would
Canna Campbell: have had to pay some fees, but probably would have
Canna Campbell: been cheaper than the self managed super fund. So I
Canna Campbell: feel like a lot of people that they have been
Canna Campbell: sold a self managed super fund for the wrong reasons.
Canna Campbell: And you look at, okay, the retail fund and even
Canna Campbell: industry funds really up their game in the level of
Canna Campbell: services and product offering an ability to diversify your money.
Canna Campbell: So it just is disappointing to see so many people
Canna Campbell: get burned. And so I've so many times I've had
Canna Campbell: to wind people's self made super funds down with the
Canna Campbell: assistance of an accountant and get them into something that
Canna Campbell: actually suits their needs and gets them back on track
Canna Campbell: and make sure that their money is actually complied and
Canna Campbell: it's actually aligned to their goals. So I'm not a
Canna Campbell: huge fan and personally someone that she asked me the
Canna Campbell: other day with her, I would set a self man
Canna Campbell: super fund that you. Tom asked me, should we be
Canna Campbell: looking at this? And I was like, as soon as
Canna Campbell: I spoke Tom about it, and I was like, oh
Canna Campbell: my god, forget it. Stop right there. Don't even bother
Canna Campbell: talking to me about it again, because there is a
Canna Campbell: lot of work involved, and there are great quality superinherotion
Canna Campbell: platforms that do I think a superior job keeping your
Canna Campbell: time and energy back.
Michael Thompson: Okay, it sounds to me as though starting point is
Michael Thompson: not even so much the amount of money you have
Michael Thompson: in your super It is whether you are a savvy
Michael Thompson: investor that you have the time and the knowledge and
Michael Thompson: the willingness to devote what is going to be a
Michael Thompson: fairly significant chunk of time and effort and energy into
Michael Thompson: making sure that this is that this is working for
Michael Thompson: you exactly, that it is not just something that you go. Okay,
Michael Thompson: I know that there are multiple options out there for
Michael Thompson: my superannuation. I'm going to go with SMSF because I
Michael Thompson: know that you can do more with your money. For instance,
Michael Thompson: I can.
Canna Campbell: Access something that's not available on an industry or retail
Canna Campbell: superinnuation account.
Michael Thompson: Okay, it just sounds like it is absolutely something where
Michael Thompson: you need to be talking to a financial advisor and
Michael Thompson: an accountant to see whether it is genuinely right for you.
Michael Thompson: It does worry me that you say that a lot
Michael Thompson: of people have been kind of sold into self managed
Michael Thompson: super funds, because presumably it is somebody within the industry
Michael Thompson: broadly who has suggested it to them, but it's not
Michael Thompson: quite right for them.
Canna Campbell: And that leads me to my stat approximately sixteen percent
Canna Campbell: of self manage super funds are sitting wholly in cash.
Canna Campbell: So this is a problem that's still lingering, and you
Canna Campbell: know it leads the question, hang on, are you really
Canna Campbell: upholding all your members' best interests at heart? If you
Canna Campbell: all this money is sitting just in cash doing not much,
Canna Campbell: especially when you look at inflation, and that's when you like,
Canna Campbell: you're opening yourself up to like your investment strategy being questioned,
Canna Campbell: what's the game plan behind this?
Michael Thompson: And so just in terms of the fees, the fees
Michael Thompson: can be quite high, I would assume, because it's not
Michael Thompson: just the administration fees and the fees associated with registering
Michael Thompson: and maintaining it, but also the fees that you additional
Michael Thompson: fees that you would need to pay in order to
Michael Thompson: get the professional support from an accountant or from a
Michael Thompson: financial advisor to put it all together and to maintain
Michael Thompson: it right.
Canna Campbell: You've got to pay for those reports to be completed,
Canna Campbell: and you've got to obviously pay for all the auditing
Canna Campbell: involved and returns to be lodged. So look, it can vary,
Canna Campbell: but as a as a rough ballpark, between two to
Canna Campbell: five six thousand dollars a year.
Michael Thompson: Okay, that's a decent whack.
Canna Campbell: When do you think we've got five hundred thousand dollars
Canna Campbell: in super and you caught five, you know, years just
Canna Campbell: going just to maintain it. And okay, you sometimes might
Canna Campbell: find something better value for money elsewhere.
Michael Thompson: You know. I don't like being negative on this show,
Michael Thompson: and I don't like the this idea that we are
Michael Thompson: kind of coming in here just to say, hey, don't
Michael Thompson: try something. But it is just one of those situations
Michael Thompson: where you need to have the conversation with a professional
Michael Thompson: to see whether this is suited to you. It is
Michael Thompson: not the kind of thing where you can just rush
Michael Thompson: into it because you've heard something about it. You might
Michael Thompson: have seen something online. You might have seen an influencer
Michael Thompson: or something online going on about how they've got assets
Michael Thompson: within their self managed super funds that they can't access
Michael Thompson: somewhere else. You need to have the conversation for yourself
Michael Thompson: and make sure that there's one hundred percent suited to you.
Canna Campbell: Absolutely.
Michael Thompson: Ah, that was a very serious episode. It was minimal fun.
Michael Thompson: My favorite part was the restaurant's analogy. I thought, Oh,
Michael Thompson: here we go, we're going to be We're going to
Michael Thompson: be in for something here, and then it complicated and convoluted.
Michael Thompson: And then at the end of the restaurant like you
Michael Thompson: left with this massive, massive bill of kind of five
Michael Thompson: thousand dollars. That was a one.
Canna Campbell: Are the restaurants the cheap version?
Michael Thompson: Oh that's right, that's the dinner party isn't much?
Canna Campbell: You're around the wrong way.
Michael Thompson: Who could have seen that coming? That was the most
Michael Thompson: compl catered analogy in the first place. Of course I
Michael Thompson: was going to stuff it up.
Canna Campbell: I thought it was brilliant.
Michael Thompson: It was. It was quite good at times. Canna. If
Michael Thompson: somebody wants more information from you, where do they find you?
Canna Campbell: The best place is to send me an email or
Canna Campbell: a DM sorry on Instagram at Sugar Mama TV.
Michael Thompson: And you can hear me every day with Sean Aylmer
Michael Thompson: on Fear and Greed daily business news for people who
Michael Thompson: make their own decisions. Thank you for listening to how
Michael Thompson: Do They Afford That? Remember to hit follow on the podcast.
Michael Thompson: And the best thing you can do is tell somebody
Michael Thompson: else or Betty at send them this podcast if if you,
Michael Thompson: like me, have had a conversation with a friend about
Michael Thompson: starting a self managed self managed super fun which I
Michael Thompson: know is probably a fairly niche category of people that
Michael Thompson: have had this conversation in the last few weeks, But
Michael Thompson: if you have had that conversation, then send them the
Michael Thompson: link to this episode so that they can get a
Michael Thompson: bit of a starting point for the research. Spread the
Michael Thompson: word about how do they ford that? Thank you for
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