WEBVTT - The MAGA billionaires taking over TikTok

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. TikTok

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<v Speaker 1>is the most influential media platform for Australians under the

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<v Speaker 1>age of twenty five. It's where millions now get their news,

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<v Speaker 1>whether they realize it or not. But the app is

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<v Speaker 1>no longer just a cultural force. It's now at the

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<v Speaker 1>center of a global power struggle between China and Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>America over who gets to patrol the algorithm in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>Sir Trump Aline, a group of investors is taking over

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok's American operations, raising questions about how one platform could

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<v Speaker 1>influence the political views of an entire generation.

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok was the essentially only major social media platform that

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't owned by Maga sympathetic doing air from America, and

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<v Speaker 2>now it is for American users today.

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<v Speaker 1>Associate editor at Krackey Cam Wilson on the trapification of

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok It's Friday, October three.

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<v Speaker 2>Cam.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there a particular type of news or topic that

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<v Speaker 1>travels best on TikTok or does that really depend on

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<v Speaker 1>the user's own personal feed?

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<v Speaker 2>Users have very very personalized feeds, and so every person's

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<v Speaker 2>feed is very different. But the stuff that tends to

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<v Speaker 2>break through are those kind of monoculture events, and those

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of events are increasingly rare, but you know, things

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<v Speaker 2>like the Charlie Kirk assassination. But it's also subject to

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<v Speaker 2>the dynamics that affect many other things on social media

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<v Speaker 2>and the Internet, which is, if something is video, it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to go better on TikTok because you need the

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<v Speaker 2>footage actually see something. And also things that encourage reactions,

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<v Speaker 2>people responding conflict. Those are the kinds of things that

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<v Speaker 2>are more likely to bubble through. You know what's about them,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe nitty gritty of policy details and more about the fights,

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<v Speaker 2>the things that is dividing people. That is the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that naturally bubbles to the top. Pure because of the

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<v Speaker 2>way that these platforms like TikTok.

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<v Speaker 1>Work, And what about the design of TikTok itself, how

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<v Speaker 1>has that influenced and changed the way other social media

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<v Speaker 1>platforms work.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean TikTok has all led this trend that's

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<v Speaker 2>taken over a social media I think it's pretty fair

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<v Speaker 2>to say we are in a post social media world.

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<v Speaker 2>The idea of Facebook connecting you to your friends, your family,

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<v Speaker 2>your local community, the people who you know is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of over I think like in fact, so TikTok kind

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<v Speaker 2>of led this new era of what it means to

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<v Speaker 2>have social content, and it said, we don't really care

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<v Speaker 2>that much about who you say you are follow. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to use these other signals to determine what to

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<v Speaker 2>show you because we actually think it's more engaging. We

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<v Speaker 2>know you say that you want, but when we give

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<v Speaker 2>you the stuff that you really want that we think

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<v Speaker 2>will interest you.

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<v Speaker 1>And so now there's a battle layer of the future

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<v Speaker 1>of TikTok as a company, and it's framed as a

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<v Speaker 1>battle between Washington and China over ticked off being a

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<v Speaker 1>national security threat. So sit this Dan and tells where

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<v Speaker 1>this battle begins.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it really throughout its whole history, as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as it became clearly an ascendent major platform, it

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<v Speaker 2>has faced scrutiny and criticism because of its link to

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<v Speaker 2>the Chinese Communist Party, and particularly in the US, with

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<v Speaker 2>I think one hundred and seventy million users now in

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<v Speaker 2>the US, so an astronomical amount. It faced scrutiny on

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<v Speaker 2>two areas. The first one is this idea of data

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<v Speaker 2>that it's collecting from its users, so you know, whenever

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<v Speaker 2>you log on your location other information about your device

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<v Speaker 2>that is going to TikTok, that's going to buy dance,

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<v Speaker 2>and the kind of accusation has always been that it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to the Chinese Communist Party. The second thing is

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<v Speaker 2>this idea of it as a propaganda tal and you

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<v Speaker 2>can consider it like, you know, the eight million Australians

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seventy million US users, this app has

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<v Speaker 2>a director line into all their lives and it is

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<v Speaker 2>able to show them content that is actually failure paid

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<v Speaker 2>to anyone else. Like all of that feeds instinct to

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<v Speaker 2>be different. It's very hard to know from the outside.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not like television with you to tune in and

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<v Speaker 2>see whatever and else is watching, or check the TV

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<v Speaker 2>guide or whatever. And there's always been this idea that

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<v Speaker 2>the rules of the platform makes could be used full

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<v Speaker 2>of various purposes. And so this idea that it represents

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<v Speaker 2>a threat to national security because there could be people

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<v Speaker 2>leaning on people and buydownce to encourage certain content to

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<v Speaker 2>be shown to users, like, for example, content critical of

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<v Speaker 2>their governments, or that it could be used to censor

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<v Speaker 2>content that was critical of the Chinese government. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>viewing it not just as a kind of data extraction

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<v Speaker 2>operation potentially, but also something that could be used to

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<v Speaker 2>push certain messages with very little scrutiny. Has made all

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<v Speaker 2>of people uneasy about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so what is the US government done about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Of TikTok? And US Congress goes back to twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>when there was a review into TikTok by the American

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<v Speaker 2>government about the idea of it being a potential national

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<v Speaker 2>security threat, saying that either TikTok has to divest and

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<v Speaker 2>pass over its ownership to American owners or will ban it.

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<v Speaker 2>And the result of that was that TikTok signed this

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<v Speaker 2>very bizarre deal with Oracle, which is own and run

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<v Speaker 2>by Larry Ellison A crump BELLI yeah exactly, and Oracle

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<v Speaker 2>would host American TikTok user data in America and also

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<v Speaker 2>have some kind of oversight role into its algorithm, its

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<v Speaker 2>secret source. It didn't really address the underlying concerns. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>data that's physically alb in America can still be accessed

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<v Speaker 2>in China, as it turns out was the case when

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<v Speaker 2>by Dance reportedly access the data of a American.

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<v Speaker 3>Journalist Bite Dance, TikTok's parent has acknowledged four employees inappropriately

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<v Speaker 3>obtained data of some US TikTok users, including two journalists.

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<v Speaker 3>In a statement, the company condemned the actions of those involved,

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<v Speaker 3>and so they're no longer employed. But that's no reassurance

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<v Speaker 3>for the minder.

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<v Speaker 2>And then this ambient concern over TikTok continued through the

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<v Speaker 2>Biden presidency until it was credited that the October seventh

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<v Speaker 2>attack revitalized interest in TikTok. From Congress was the accusation

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<v Speaker 2>that the content that was being shown to TikTok users

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<v Speaker 2>was leading to a rise in pro Palestinian sympathy in

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<v Speaker 2>young Americans.

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<v Speaker 4>Every thirty minutes that someone watches TikTok every day, they

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<v Speaker 4>become seventeen percent more anti Semitic, more pro Hamas. Based

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<v Speaker 4>on doing that, we now know that fifty percent of

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<v Speaker 4>adults eighteen to twenty five think that Hamas was warranted,

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<v Speaker 4>and what they did with Israel, that's a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>Whether that's true, I think is far from proven. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that we've ever seen really conclusive evidence that,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, you know that there was a company directive

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<v Speaker 2>to promote certain points of views about the Israel Gaza conflict,

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<v Speaker 2>but regardless, this fervor led to the bipartisan support for

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<v Speaker 2>the bill. The bill passed that TikTok needed to be

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<v Speaker 2>under American ownership or face a ban by January nineteen,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five, coincidentally, the day before Donald Trump was

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<v Speaker 2>sworn in, and when Trump came in, he delayed the

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<v Speaker 2>ban a number of times until recently. The final deal

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<v Speaker 2>that was carried out by the Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Administration after the break Trump talk so came Last year,

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<v Speaker 1>the US Congress passed a law that said foreign adverse

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<v Speaker 1>recontrolled apps like TikTok need to divest or be banned.

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<v Speaker 1>And now Donald Trump assigned an executive order that would

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<v Speaker 1>pave the way for an American run version of TikTok.

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<v Speaker 5>Next, sir, we have an executive order on TikTok. From

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<v Speaker 5>the first days of your administration. You've charged a team

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<v Speaker 5>from your administration, led by Vice President Vance, with ensuring

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<v Speaker 5>that we can preserve TikTok as a platform for the

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<v Speaker 5>one hundred and seventy million Americans who use it, while

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<v Speaker 5>ensuring that their data is properly protected as required by law.

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<v Speaker 2>With this executive or.

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<v Speaker 1>So, can you just explain what this executive order sets out.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so we are now close to the year of

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<v Speaker 6>truck talk, where there is an American owned entity that

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<v Speaker 6>will license a version of TikTok's algorithm.

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<v Speaker 7>You know, it's run by American investors and American companies,

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<v Speaker 7>great ones, great investors, the biggest you don't get bigger,

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<v Speaker 7>I don't imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe there has also been discussions about retraining or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, essentially fiddling around it and having its own

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<v Speaker 2>twist on that algorithm. So that recipe that's deciding what

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<v Speaker 2>to show uses. But from what we know about it,

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<v Speaker 2>by dance, the company that has owned TikTok until recently

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<v Speaker 2>will now be a minor owner in a US entity

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<v Speaker 2>that will control the US operations. The major owners are

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<v Speaker 2>Oracle that I mentioned before, which is run by a

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<v Speaker 2>very close Trump ally who's been involved before, but now

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<v Speaker 2>his role has grown in it.

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<v Speaker 7>You'll see a list have you seen all this yet

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<v Speaker 7>of the people, well you've been reading about that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>it's it's I know, Michael Dell's involved, and Rupert Murdocks involved,

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<v Speaker 7>and a lot of and let's say we have probably

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<v Speaker 7>four or five absolutely worldless investors that love the country

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<v Speaker 7>and they made a lot of money with the country, And.

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<v Speaker 2>So these are a group of all Trump aligned figures

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<v Speaker 2>who are, you know, very rich people who involved in

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<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of other things, who now have some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of control over TikTok. We just really don't exactly

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<v Speaker 2>understand how it works, but it's it's fair to say

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<v Speaker 2>that they will have some kind of influence over how

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok works in America for American users.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're saying a shift from a Chinese government aligned

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<v Speaker 1>ownership to a Trump aligned ownership. What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that will mean for the type of news that we

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<v Speaker 1>see on TikTok from now on.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that we should expect it to change in

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<v Speaker 2>some way, and I don't know how. When Trump was

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<v Speaker 2>signing the executive order, he joked about it being one

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<v Speaker 2>mega content, was his line.

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<v Speaker 7>I always liked MAGA related. If I could make it

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<v Speaker 7>one hundred percent Mega related, it's actually a good question,

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<v Speaker 7>but I would. Yeah, if I could make it one

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<v Speaker 7>hundred percent mega, I would. But it's not going to

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<v Speaker 7>work out that way, unfortunately. No, everyone's going to be

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<v Speaker 7>treated fairly every group.

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<v Speaker 2>We have seen that Trump has shepherded various traditional media

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<v Speaker 2>properties to his allies, including Larry Elson's son, who recently

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<v Speaker 2>bought Skydance, which is a big media company that has

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<v Speaker 2>recently merged with Paramount and owns a lot of popular

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<v Speaker 2>American media properties, including NBC News. They're also apparently looking

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<v Speaker 2>to buy Warner Brothers, so there was an enormous amount

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<v Speaker 2>of cultural reach and popular properties that it currently owns

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<v Speaker 2>and potentially could own, And David Elson has expressed that

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<v Speaker 2>he would like to rejig NBC News to represent a

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<v Speaker 2>more conservative point of view. He's a very strong pro

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<v Speaker 2>Israel advocate, and it's believed that he'd like to see

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<v Speaker 2>that opinion reflected in the properties that he owns as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So it wouldn't be crazy to imagine that that same

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<v Speaker 2>thing would happen with TikTok. We're seeing, you know, all

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<v Speaker 2>of these very very powerful companies that have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of cultural influence being shepherded into their hands of people

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<v Speaker 2>who are closely aligned with Trump. So it is, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty significant change in an environment that was already

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<v Speaker 2>pretty homogenous in terms of its ownership. The few holdouts,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like, are now being shepherded away and the

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<v Speaker 2>keys to the kingdom are being handed over to the

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<v Speaker 2>friends of the King.

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<v Speaker 1>And cam it seems like maybe the next generation would

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<v Speaker 1>escape the influence of the Murdock Empire. In the past,

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<v Speaker 1>they've been notoriously bad at speaking to younger audiences, remember

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<v Speaker 1>the MySpace moment. Of course, Yes, But in getting a

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<v Speaker 1>stake in TikTok, is there a sign their influence over

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<v Speaker 1>the next generation will actually increase?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, so I think, you know, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the great strengths of News corp In particularly in Australia

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<v Speaker 2>in the US as well is the way that it

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<v Speaker 2>is able to use its influence for its own corporate interests.

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<v Speaker 2>So wouldn't surprise you that if they got their hands

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<v Speaker 2>on some kind of control over a social media platform

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<v Speaker 2>that so far they've not really had any control over,

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<v Speaker 2>that they use it to promote themselves, promote their other properties,

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<v Speaker 2>promote their ideological views. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

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<v Speaker 2>That being said, the reason they'm cautious is that one,

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, they're not a major owner.

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<v Speaker 2>The second thing is that there are a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of owners, and I think that you know, while people

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<v Speaker 2>like political influence, they also have brought in because it's

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<v Speaker 2>a money making operation as well. Anything that could threaten

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 2>the popularity of it, would, you know, not just affect

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>the Murdocks, but also other people as well. I understand

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 2>why people are alarmed, but I think that there is

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 2>a balance of these owners of this new Trump talk

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.480
<v Speaker 2>what a balance like, of course they want to if

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.520
<v Speaker 2>further there. They're ideological mission. We've seen that, I think

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.440
<v Speaker 2>with many of their owners. But they're also business people

0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.959
<v Speaker 2>who've brought into something that could make them a lot

0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>of money. And like you know, at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the day, it's sometimes it's hard to with all the

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<v Speaker 2>business leaders who are expressing fuelty to the Trump administration,

0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 2>father exactly know whether that is, you know, from from

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<v Speaker 2>or from the bottom line. I think it's worth paying

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 2>attention considering how those goals might influence each other. Follow

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 2>the money, follow the money, follow the feed of the money.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for your time, Cam, need you. Also

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>in the news, Aaron Patterson will appeal her triple murder conviction.

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 1>The fifty one year old was found guilty by a

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>jury and sentenced to life from prison with a thirty

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>three year non parole period for killing her in laws

0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Don and Gal Patterson, as well as Heather Wilkinson. Patterson

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 1>has a new barrister, Richard Edney, who made the announcement yesterday.

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 1>He did not outline grounds for appeal and no documents

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.440
<v Speaker 1>have been lodged yet. And Australia and part of New

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Guinea have signed a major defense deal, agreeing to defend

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>each other and increase military cooperation. P and G citizens

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 1>will also able to join the Australian Defense Force, and

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.680
<v Speaker 1>Australians will be able to serve alongside P and G troops.

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.920
<v Speaker 1>The deal is designed to stem China's influence in the

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 1>region and comes as the Albanese government moves ahead on

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<v Speaker 1>a number of other similar agreements with Pacific neighbors. Seven

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<v Speaker 1>Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's made

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 1>by Atticus Bastow, Chris Dangate, Daniel James, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcveee,

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Travis Evans and Zodnfecho. Our theme music is by Ned

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Beckley and Josh Hogan of En Below Bordeo. We'll be

0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow with a Saturday episode wrapping up all the

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>biggest political moments of the week, with New Daily's contributing

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 1>editor Aman Ramikus.

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:42.640
<v Speaker 2>See you then,