Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Brown contains course
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian.
Speaker 2: Your Worship. An issue arose yesterday morning in relation to
Speaker 2: a possible sighting of the missing person. On that issue,
Speaker 2: i'd seek to call Jody Maine when.
Speaker 1: The courtroom reopened for the second day of the inquest.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the prime suspect, John Winfield, but he's daughter Jody,
Speaker 1: who was ushered forward to give evidence on an important
Speaker 1: matter that had come up the day before.
Speaker 2: And ma'am, do you understand? I just want to ask
Speaker 2: you some very brief questions about a telephone call that
Speaker 2: you received yesterday morning, and at a later stage in
Speaker 2: this inquest I will be asking you some further questions
Speaker 2: about this matter.
Speaker 1: Yep, let's pause to recap. Jody had received a phone
Speaker 1: call on the previous day from a woman named Kayleen Jones.
Speaker 1: According to Jody, Kayleen had called the Winfield family home
Speaker 1: in Lennox Head about eight thirty am asking to speak
Speaker 1: to Crystal Becurse. The caller had some photographs to share
Speaker 1: with Crystal of Bromwin and Crystal's biological father, Mark Davis.
Speaker 1: Kayleen then purportedly went into detail about the night that
Speaker 1: Crystal was conceived, and then, according to Jody, Kayleen shared
Speaker 1: with Jody a startling piece of information. Bromwin had been
Speaker 1: seen alive. According to Jody, Kayleen's friend Joanne was confident
Speaker 1: that she had seen Bromwin out Nimbu and Weh, referencing
Speaker 1: the small hippie town less than an hour from where
Speaker 1: the court sat in Lismore. The stunning revelation caused to
Speaker 1: stir in the courtroom. On day one, police officers Matt
Speaker 1: Fordham and Glen Taylor set about checking the rumor as
Speaker 1: a matter of priority. As you heard in the previous episode,
Speaker 1: Glen Taylor told the inquest that he had spoken to
Speaker 1: Joanne Guthrie and she had denied telling Kayleen that Bromwin
Speaker 1: was out Nimbenweh. Joanne had said she had no evidence
Speaker 1: at all of this being true. It was clear by
Speaker 1: the morning of day two that the possibility of Bromwin
Speaker 1: being alive and living somewhere near Nimbeni was unfounded. But
Speaker 1: now Matt Fordham, the police officer assisting the coroner, had
Speaker 1: questions for Jody. He was clearly skeptical about some details
Speaker 1: that Jody had told him the previous day about the
Speaker 1: phone call with Kayleen. He also had questions about what
Speaker 1: Jody didn't tell him, Questions like why didn't Jody tell
Speaker 1: him Kayleen or Joanne surnames? If she didn't know, why
Speaker 1: hadn't she asked Kayleen? If Jody really believed that Bromwin
Speaker 1: had been seen out nimb and way as she put it,
Speaker 1: then surely she would have been at pains to get
Speaker 1: those details from Kayleen. Why had she told only half
Speaker 1: the story? Ma'am?
Speaker 2: Is it the case that yesterday at about eleven fifteen
Speaker 2: you approached myself and the officer in charge and you
Speaker 2: informed us that you had received a phone call from
Speaker 2: a lady called Kayleen about eight thirty yesterday morning? Is
Speaker 2: that correct?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: And could you tell the court what Kayleen told you?
Speaker 4: She told me She rang up asking to speak to Christel.
Speaker 4: I told her that Christel wasn't here. She asked when
Speaker 4: I would be seeing her. I told her this week.
Speaker 4: She then told me she had something to give her
Speaker 4: that it was photos of her mother and father. I
Speaker 4: then asked her which father. She said her real father
Speaker 4: Mark Davis. She then started to tell me about the
Speaker 4: night Cristal was conceived. She went into detail about that,
Speaker 4: and pretty much after that, she told me that she
Speaker 4: knew a lady called Joanne Guthrie or Joanne had married
Speaker 4: a man called Craig Guthrie, and that Joanne knows that
Speaker 4: Bromwin is living out Nimbenweh. And then this Kaylen told
Speaker 4: me that she lives out Nimbenweh, has never seen her,
Speaker 4: but Joanne is confident that she is out in Nimbenweh.
Speaker 4: And that's all I know. That's what I wrote down.
Speaker 2: And you received this phone call at your home address,
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 5: Yep?
Speaker 3: Eight thirty yesterday morning?
Speaker 2: And I think you made some notes when you arrived
Speaker 2: at the courthouse about that conversation. Is that right?
Speaker 3: I wrote it down as she was telling me.
Speaker 2: Do you have those notes here?
Speaker 1: Jodie said yes, and she produced the notes that she
Speaker 1: had written on a piece of paper during her phone
Speaker 1: call with Kayleen.
Speaker 2: In relation to the identity of Joanne. You've made some
Speaker 2: notes on this piece of paper that says that Joanne
Speaker 2: says she's out nimb and wet they know. And then
Speaker 2: later it says Joanne lives in Sydney. Would you agree
Speaker 2: that there is no reference to the surname of Joanne
Speaker 2: on this document?
Speaker 4: Well, she told me she was married to Mark Guthrie's brother,
Speaker 4: so I assume that's Craig Guthrie.
Speaker 2: Well it's true, isn't it, ma'am, that you told us
Speaker 2: you didn't know the surname of Joanne.
Speaker 4: I might have said I didn't know, but I just
Speaker 4: assumed all along that it was Craig Guthrie's wife.
Speaker 2: Well, do you agree that the officer in charge and
Speaker 2: I were asking you questions along the lines of do
Speaker 2: you know Kaylen's surname? Do you know where Kaylen lives?
Speaker 2: Her phone number? And things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said no to that because I didn't.
Speaker 2: You said no to each of these things, yep. And
Speaker 2: then we asked you questions along the lines of do
Speaker 2: you know who this jo Anne person is? And you
Speaker 2: also said that you don't know who she is. You
Speaker 2: don't know her surname.
Speaker 4: No, I don't know who she is. I don't know
Speaker 4: Kayleen either. Never heard of them until yesterday.
Speaker 2: Well, a moment ago, ma'am, you gave evidence that it
Speaker 2: was Joanne Garthrie that had allegedly spoken to Kayleen about
Speaker 2: seeing the missing person.
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, stood and defended his client's daughter.
Speaker 6: I think, to be fair to the witness, the witness said,
Speaker 6: she assumed it was she's making the difference between knowledge
Speaker 6: and assumption. I think is the point, ma'am.
Speaker 2: When was it that you made that assumption after I
Speaker 2: got the phone call? It was certainly before you spoke
Speaker 2: to the officer in charge and I yesterday, wasn't it yep?
Speaker 2: Is there any reason why you didn't indicate to us
Speaker 2: that it was a Joanne, possibly Joanne Garthrie, that was
Speaker 2: being spoken about by Kaylen.
Speaker 1: Jody deflected the question.
Speaker 4: I'm just relaying what was told to me yesterday morning
Speaker 4: to the best of how it was told to me.
Speaker 2: Certainly you agree that when the officer in charge and
Speaker 2: I inquired of you the surname of Joanne, you couldn't
Speaker 2: indicate to us what Joanne's surname was, could you?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: In actual fact, I said that I asked this Kayleen
Speaker 4: if she'd been if she had spoken to the police,
Speaker 4: and she said she had and she'd told the police this,
Speaker 4: And that was when we said to Glenn Taylor that
Speaker 4: somewhere in the brief would be Kaylene's last name so
Speaker 4: he could find who she was.
Speaker 1: Ma'am.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I'm simply
Speaker 2: trying to focus our attention on what you told us
Speaker 2: yesterday at eleven fifteen. And would you agree that you
Speaker 2: didn't know Joanne's surname or you certainly didn't tell us
Speaker 2: that you had any idea of Joanne's surname yesterday? Did you?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 3: I only knew what was written on that.
Speaker 2: If it's written on that, matt Fordham changed direction, ma'am.
Speaker 2: Isn't it the case that since yesterday you've received a
Speaker 2: letter in the mail? Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Yes? This morning?
Speaker 2: Whereabouts? Did you receive that letter at my house? And
Speaker 2: was it in the letter box at your house?
Speaker 5: Yep?
Speaker 2: Do you know where it was delivered by post or?
Speaker 4: I saw the postman deliver it and my daughter got
Speaker 4: it out of the letter box and brought.
Speaker 3: It into me.
Speaker 2: Who was the letter from?
Speaker 3: From Kayleen Jones to Crystal?
Speaker 2: Do you have the letter here today?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 2: Have you opened this letter?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Would you agree that it's been re sealed?
Speaker 3: I just yep, I pushed it back down.
Speaker 2: What's inside the letter?
Speaker 3: Photos for Crystal?
Speaker 2: Is Crystal here? Do you have any objection if I
Speaker 2: open the letter?
Speaker 6: Ma'am?
Speaker 2: Are you able to indicate to the court what's the firstly,
Speaker 2: what's the relevance of the photographs here?
Speaker 4: There photos of her father and her mother and photo
Speaker 4: as a Bronlin on her own, photos of Bronlin with
Speaker 4: Crystal together.
Speaker 2: There's also a note contained in the letter. Have you
Speaker 2: read the note briefly?
Speaker 1: But it is an odd admission from Jody. Her stepsister
Speaker 1: Cristel was sitting in the courtroom that morning. The envelope
Speaker 1: and the letter from Kayleen were specifically addressed to Crystal.
Speaker 1: According to Jody, she already knew from talking to Kayleen
Speaker 1: the previous morning that the letter was intended for Crystal
Speaker 1: and it contained photographs of Brommin and Crystal's father, Mark Davis.
Speaker 1: Jody could have easily handed Crystal the envelope before court
Speaker 1: began for Crystal to open, but Crystal didn't. Jody opened it.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham did not press Jody about why.
Speaker 2: Perhaps your worship I might leed some evidence from Kaylene
Speaker 2: Jones about the contents of this note if it's appropriate,
Speaker 2: I have no further questions of this witness at this time.
Speaker 1: Sitting in the courtroom was the letters sender Kayleen Jones.
Speaker 1: She had been asked by Glenn Taylor the previous evening
Speaker 1: to come to court and explain the phone call that
Speaker 1: she'd had with Jody. Kayleen knew her old friend Bromwin
Speaker 1: much better than most. They grew up together as teenagers
Speaker 1: and best friends in Sydney's Sutherlandshire, and they had shared
Speaker 1: formative memories as young adults. Together they experienced some of
Speaker 1: the highs and lows of navigating life as young mothers
Speaker 1: with small children. Kayleen moved away and coincidentally she now
Speaker 1: lived near Nimben, and her appearance at the inquest was brief.
Speaker 1: She was asked just eleven questions by Matt Fordham.
Speaker 2: Could you tell the court what you told Jody?
Speaker 7: I asked her, if Kristel was there, that I had
Speaker 7: some photos put away for Crystal and I was waiting
Speaker 7: until she was old enough to receive them, which is
Speaker 7: why I hadn't contacted her earlier in the Northern Star
Speaker 7: on Saturday. The inquest was on this week, so I
Speaker 7: presumed that Crystal would be around for that.
Speaker 1: The police officer asked Kayleen if she had made any
Speaker 1: reference to a lady named Joanne in her phone conversation
Speaker 1: with Jody. Yes.
Speaker 7: I asked Jody a couple of questions about what they
Speaker 7: thought may have happened to Bromwin and whether there was
Speaker 7: any sightings of her. She said that one of Bromman's friends, Diane,
Speaker 7: who I remember from years ago, had possibly seen her.
Speaker 7: I told Jody I got a phone call years ago
Speaker 7: from Joanne saying Bromwin was supposedly in the Nimben area.
Speaker 7: I've lived around Nimben for eleven years and said that
Speaker 7: if she was around there, I would have seen her,
Speaker 7: and I hadn't seen her. I did see Nimbuen police.
Speaker 7: Neville Plush was the sergeant at the time and Kevin
Speaker 7: Gillemier was the scenic constable, and I told them if
Speaker 7: Bromwin was around the Nimben area that I would have
Speaker 7: seen her in that time, and I knew she wasn't there.
Speaker 1: Basically, there is a significant difference here between Jody and
Speaker 1: Kayleen's recollections of the phone call. Jody gave evidence a
Speaker 1: short time earlier that Kayleen had said her friend, Joanne
Speaker 1: knows that Bromwin is living out nimben Weh, and according
Speaker 1: to Jody, Kayleen said that she lives out nimben Weh
Speaker 1: and has never seen Bromwin herself, but that Joanne is
Speaker 1: confident that Bromwin is there. It all amounted to a
Speaker 1: very definite impression. Matt Fordham didn't press this discrepancy. Instead,
Speaker 1: he turned to another matter that clearly aroused his suspicion.
Speaker 2: He asked, did you indicate to Jody what Joanne's surname was?
Speaker 1: Kayleen replied that she'd told Jody that Joanne had married
Speaker 1: a man named Craig Guthrie, and Craig's brother is Mark Guthrie,
Speaker 1: Bromwin's former partner.
Speaker 2: Ma'am the community at Nimben, Is it the case that
Speaker 2: if someone was living at Nimben that you would expect
Speaker 2: to see them at some stage through your life?
Speaker 7: Living at Nimben, definitely, you can know hundreds of people
Speaker 7: out there to say hello to. You don't know everyone personally,
Speaker 7: but bronwhen I've known since I was a teenager. I've
Speaker 7: known her for years, and if she was around anywhere
Speaker 7: and I'd caught sight of her, I would know it
Speaker 7: was her. I did ask for the address. I looked
Speaker 7: up the Windfields in the phone book because I knew
Speaker 7: they lived at Lennox Head, and I just asked if
Speaker 7: I could send the photos over to Crystal. Jodie said
Speaker 7: she'd make sure Crystal got them.
Speaker 2: Ma'am, is it in your view possible that bron and
Speaker 2: Winfield could be living at Nimben and not have met
Speaker 2: your attention over the years. No, and you certainly haven't
Speaker 2: been living as a recluse or No, ma'am. The letter
Speaker 2: that you've sent to Crystal, it basically encloses a number
Speaker 2: of photographs and wishes t Cristal all the best, and
Speaker 2: it indicates that you have knowledge of Bronwin when she
Speaker 2: was younger. Yeah, there's no suggestion in your correspondence to
Speaker 2: Crystal that Bronwin has been alive since sixteen May ninety three. No.
Speaker 1: During the first season of the Bromwyn podcast series, I
Speaker 1: received an email from Kayleen Jones. She reached out to
Speaker 1: me unprompted, well before we began producing this episode. She
Speaker 1: said she had been following the podcast closely, and she
Speaker 1: attached a sixteen page letter to her email with a
Speaker 1: one word title Bromwin. Kayleen had a lot to say
Speaker 1: about Bromwyn, and she had new revelations about the phone
Speaker 1: call she had with Jody on the first morning of
Speaker 1: the inquest in two thousand and two. She has agreed
Speaker 1: to read out parts of her letter.
Speaker 7: Jody said the inquest was to paint her father black
Speaker 7: and that Bronwyn had just walked out on them. I said, well,
Speaker 7: where is she then? And Jody mentioned someone named Diane
Speaker 7: allegedly citing Bromwin at Cronala since her disappearance.
Speaker 5: I mentioned that Bromwin's.
Speaker 7: And my friend Joanne Guthrie contacted me years beforehand, saying
Speaker 7: that John supposedly said that Bromwin was in Nimben, which
Speaker 7: I knew was untrue because if anyone would recognize her.
Speaker 5: I would.
Speaker 1: In her letter, Kaylene mentioned some important details that were
Speaker 1: not part of the evidence in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: The first is that she remembered telling Jody in the
Speaker 1: phone call that it was Jody's father John, who first
Speaker 1: suggested Bromwin could be at Nimben. Kayleen explained that she
Speaker 1: didn't tell the inquest this important detail because she was
Speaker 1: still surprised at having to give evidence at short notice.
Speaker 1: She said she felt she did not have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to expand on her answers.
Speaker 7: I drove to liz More Coroner's Court and was completely
Speaker 7: baffled about why I was there, and everyone started explaining
Speaker 7: what Jody had said about me.
Speaker 1: The day before, My colleague Isaac Ayan spoke to Kayleen
Speaker 1: at her home just outside Nimben and Kayleen shared more
Speaker 1: details about her phone call with Jody in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two.
Speaker 5: I remember that phone conversation.
Speaker 7: She actually did say Crystal's here, but not here right now,
Speaker 7: which is why she couldn't put her on the phone.
Speaker 7: And then I said that I'd had photos of Bromwin,
Speaker 7: Crystal's dad and Crystal and she's gone, which dad, and
Speaker 7: I said, Mark Davis, so you could hear her voice.
Speaker 6: She had contempt in her voice.
Speaker 7: What I said was that Joanne had heard years ago
Speaker 7: through Megan Bromman's cousin, that John had alleged that Bromwin
Speaker 7: was out Nimben way, and I said, well, she's definitely
Speaker 7: not up here, because if anyone's going to recognize.
Speaker 1: Her, I would.
Speaker 8: But in that phone call, you also made it clear
Speaker 8: that neither you nor Joanne believed.
Speaker 7: They werenat absolutely neither of us believed that rumor. I
Speaker 7: then went on to say to Jody that I did
Speaker 7: see the missing person segment on the TV program Crime Watch,
Speaker 7: Missing Persons Australia, whatever show it was, and that was
Speaker 7: the second time that I'd heard that allegedly she was
Speaker 7: in the Nimben area, which was why I then went
Speaker 7: to Nimbum Police the following day to tell them Bromhen
Speaker 7: wasn't around Nimben, to which the police laughed at me
Speaker 7: and said, you can't report a non sighting of a person.
Speaker 1: I've spoken to Joanne Guthrie and she confirmed with me
Speaker 1: that she remembered hearing something about Bromwin supposed being out
Speaker 1: Nimben Way. Here's a snippet from my conversation with Joanne Guthrie.
Speaker 1: You're going to hear more from her and from Kayleen
Speaker 1: in a later episode and their observations of John.
Speaker 7: My recollection, I mean, we're going back a long time now,
Speaker 7: was that Megan contacted myself.
Speaker 8: And said that she had heard that Bromwin was living
Speaker 8: out in Nimbhen Way.
Speaker 1: And it's possible that Megan heard it from John Winfield.
Speaker 1: Kayleen has a view about Jody's actions at the two
Speaker 1: thousand and two in Quest, insofar as their phone calls concerned.
Speaker 7: Completely twisted and distorted it to make it what she
Speaker 7: wanted it to be. When I first rang up, she said,
Speaker 7: this whole inquest.
Speaker 5: Is to paint my father black.
Speaker 7: She was already on the defensive, and then gone to
Speaker 7: the inquest and completely change my words and said, there.
Speaker 5: Is an alleged sighting out at Nimben.
Speaker 7: And Jody has taken parts of our phone conversation and
Speaker 7: turned it into what she wanted it to be.
Speaker 8: At the inquest, trying to conjure up a potential sighting
Speaker 8: of Bromlin, Yes, which would have put in doubt the
Speaker 8: theory that John was her killer.
Speaker 1: Yes, It's possible that Jody was simply mistaken in her
Speaker 1: recollection of what Kayleen told her. It is also possible that,
Speaker 1: in her excitement at hearing of a possible rumor of
Speaker 1: Bromwin being alive, Jody glossed over key qualifying details from
Speaker 1: Kayleen and instead wrote down a very definitive statement, let
Speaker 1: me repeat what those words were. Joanne says, she's out
Speaker 1: nimb and way. They know a little more about this.
Speaker 1: In a later episode, when Jody gives evidence again on
Speaker 1: day four of the inquest. On that day, matt Fordham
Speaker 1: asked more penetrating questions about Jody's actions during and after
Speaker 1: the phone call with Kayleen. He appeared to be very suspicious.
Speaker 1: The second day of the inquest continued with evidence of
Speaker 1: another possible sighting of Bromwin.
Speaker 2: Ma'am, can you please tell us your full name?
Speaker 9: Diane Linda McMillan.
Speaker 1: Diane McMillan knew Bromwin well. They met at Sylvania Price
Speaker 1: School in Sydney, Sutherlandshire when they were about ten years old,
Speaker 1: and they stayed in touch throughout the years. Diane met
Speaker 1: Bromwin's boyfriends, including Mark Guthrie and Mark Davis, and Diane
Speaker 1: recalled Crystal's birth and the controversy over her true parentage. Diane,
Speaker 1: of course met John Winfield. Matt Fordham walked Diane through
Speaker 1: what she had told police in her nineteen ninety eight statement.
Speaker 1: He asked Diane about a phone call in early nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three with Bromwin.
Speaker 10: I was at home and the phone rang and I
Speaker 10: answered it and it was Bromwin and I hadn't heard
Speaker 10: from her for a while. I remember her telling me
Speaker 10: that John had gone all weird and strange, and I
Speaker 10: just said, look, I'm in Sydney, you're in Ballina. You
Speaker 10: should get help, and you know, just get out of there, Bromwin.
Speaker 9: That's what I said to her.
Speaker 2: Did she indicate anything specifically, any specific event that prompted
Speaker 2: her to ring you?
Speaker 10: No, she just I vaguely remember her telling me that
Speaker 10: he'd become very possessive.
Speaker 2: Did she sound to you as though she felt safe
Speaker 2: in that house?
Speaker 11: No?
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you any plans for the future.
Speaker 9: No.
Speaker 12: No.
Speaker 10: I've known Bromwin for a very long time, and I
Speaker 10: knew she absolutely adored her children, and there's just no
Speaker 10: way she would have left them for this period of time.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Diane to recount another phone conversation, one
Speaker 1: that she'd had with John in mid nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: a few weeks after Bromwin had disappeared.
Speaker 10: He just said to me, have you seen Bromwin? And
Speaker 10: I said no. I said, what have you done with her?
Speaker 10: Because I was very suspicious of him because of what
Speaker 10: Bromwin had said.
Speaker 9: To me on the phone.
Speaker 2: And what was mister Winfield's reaction to that comment?
Speaker 9: Oh? How dare you speak to me like that?
Speaker 10: You know, he just went right off as bean and
Speaker 10: I got quite frightened of him at that stage.
Speaker 2: Did you have any subsequent phone calls to mister Winfield
Speaker 2: about this issue afterwards? Yes?
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: In the police investigation and inquest, there were three purported
Speaker 1: sightings of Bromwin in the years following her disappearance. The
Speaker 1: Nimben rumor was an obvious red herring. At the inquest,
Speaker 1: there was another purported sighting of Bromwin by a woman
Speaker 1: named Jane Johnston. Jane's husband, Andrew and John were first cousins.
Speaker 1: Jane got to know Bromwyn well. He's a reminder from
Speaker 1: episode four of what Jane said in her nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: eight police statement.
Speaker 13: She would often state to me that she was scared
Speaker 13: of John and worried that he would hit her, Although
Speaker 13: she never ever told me that he did, and I'm
Speaker 13: sure she would have if it had occurred, she did
Speaker 13: inform me after Christmas that year he had backed her
Speaker 13: up against the kitchen cabinets and raised his hand as
Speaker 13: if to hit her, but then just walked away.
Speaker 1: Another key part of Jane Johnston's nineteen ninety eight statement
Speaker 1: to police was disclosed in episode six.
Speaker 13: Shortly after returning home from overseas, Andrew and I went
Speaker 13: on a picnic at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.
Speaker 13: Peter is John's brother. While we were on the picnic,
Speaker 13: Peter told us that Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior.
Speaker 13: We didn't have much contact with John after that, and
Speaker 13: I didn't discuss her disappearance with him because he obviously
Speaker 13: didn't want to.
Speaker 1: One day in nineteen ninety four, whilst shopping in the Shire,
Speaker 1: Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.
Speaker 1: She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's
Speaker 1: name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she
Speaker 1: ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.
Speaker 1: Jane Johnston was not called as a witness at the inquest.
Speaker 1: There was another purported sighting of Bromwin in Kunella eighteen
Speaker 1: months later. Diane McMillan believed that she had caught a
Speaker 1: glimpse of her old friend Bromwin and apparently without any
Speaker 1: worry of being seen. Here's Diane from her nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: eight police statement.
Speaker 10: I caught the side profile of this girl, and I
Speaker 10: thought it was Bromin's standing there. I turned around as
Speaker 10: I passed, But this girl must have walked off fairly quickly.
Speaker 10: I'm not sure that it was in fact Bromwin, but
Speaker 10: it looked like her.
Speaker 1: Matt Forlham asked Diane about this.
Speaker 2: You turned around as you passed this girl, But this
Speaker 2: girl must have walked off fairly quickly, because you didn't
Speaker 2: see her again after that.
Speaker 10: No, no, I just turned my head around. I was driving,
Speaker 10: concentrating on the road.
Speaker 2: Of course, on the first look to your left, did
Speaker 2: you recognize it as Bronwin?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 9: I didn't see her face.
Speaker 10: I only saw the side of her head, on the
Speaker 10: back of her body. She was behind a car, and
Speaker 10: it was a brief sighting, very brief, ma'am.
Speaker 2: Do you believe it was Bronwin or that it could
Speaker 2: have been Bronwyn Winfield that you saw in nineteen ninety five?
Speaker 10: It could have been her, but I don't think it.
Speaker 10: I didn't see her face, so I can't be sure.
Speaker 2: Did you in nineteen ninety five, when you say you
Speaker 2: caught a glimpse of someone who appeared to be Bronwen,
Speaker 2: did you make any attempt to contact Bronwyn's family.
Speaker 10: I was sort of thinking that she was missing, not
Speaker 10: anything else that happened. So I actually rang John Winfield,
Speaker 10: I think, and I told him that I think I'd
Speaker 10: seen her in Cronulla.
Speaker 1: The police officer raised a point about Bronwyn.
Speaker 2: And given that you say you believe you saw someone
Speaker 2: who looked like Bromwin in Cronulla, did it strike you
Speaker 2: as strange that Bronwyin would not have contacted her family
Speaker 2: if she was living in Cronulla.
Speaker 10: Yes, I the whole thing has struck me as strange
Speaker 10: because she wasn't a person that would just disappear.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that the hair was a unique feature of
Speaker 2: Bronwyin that struck you as being similar to her. But
Speaker 2: is there any other unique feature, for example, the shape
Speaker 2: of her nose, or the shape of an ear, or
Speaker 2: some sort of mark on the face or anything like
Speaker 2: that that could indicate to us as being a unique
Speaker 2: identifier that the person you saw was Bronwin.
Speaker 10: Her body, the long legs, in just the way her
Speaker 10: figure was. It was just an outstanding figure. You never
Speaker 10: forget it once you've seen it.
Speaker 2: And when you saw this lady, was she standing still
Speaker 2: or was she moving?
Speaker 9: She was moving?
Speaker 2: Do you remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 2: No, I don't, Given what you know about circumstances of
Speaker 2: Bronwin's disappearance, did you go and search for her in
Speaker 2: any of those shops?
Speaker 9: No, I didn't.
Speaker 10: I just thought she was gone, so how would I
Speaker 10: be able to find her.
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, had some brief questions for Diane
Speaker 1: about a phone conversation that she made to his client John.
Speaker 6: The sighting was in mid nineteen ninety five. That was
Speaker 6: some seven years ago, wasn't it.
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 6: And at the time of the sighting your recollection of
Speaker 6: events was a lot better than it is now, isn't it.
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 6: The sighting back in nineteen ninety five struck you as
Speaker 6: being struck you at the time as being so clearly
Speaker 6: Bronwin that you rang John Winfield straight away. Didn't she Yes?
Speaker 9: But I wasn't sure it was her, but it looked
Speaker 9: like her.
Speaker 6: And in the course of the conversation with John, you
Speaker 6: in fact apologized to him for making the allegations that
Speaker 6: you'd made to him in the last phone call with him,
Speaker 6: didn't you?
Speaker 9: I can't recall that.
Speaker 6: Did you say something like, look, I'm sorry that I
Speaker 6: suspected you before, but I've now seen Bronwin. I'm sorry,
Speaker 6: I apologize something like that.
Speaker 9: No, I don't think I would have said that, but.
Speaker 6: Words to that effect. No, that was the gist of
Speaker 6: the call, wasn't it that you had seen Bromwin and
Speaker 6: you were ringing him to tell him that you'd made
Speaker 6: that sighting.
Speaker 10: Yes, at the time, I didn't know she was going
Speaker 10: to be missing for this period of time.
Speaker 1: Though Broman's former partner, Mark Davis, the father of Crystal,
Speaker 1: went into the witness box next, Mark has since passed
Speaker 1: away on Day one of the inquests. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett,
Speaker 1: had suggested that Bromin's attempts to contact Mark Davis in
Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three, shortly before her disappearance, could have
Speaker 1: indicated Bromwin's desire to safeguard her eldest daughter while Bromwin
Speaker 1: took off from the family forever, but that theory is
Speaker 1: at odds with what Bromwin herself wrote. In a letter
Speaker 1: to Mark Davis and his parents, Crystal's grandparents in early
Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three. Bromwin wrote that she wanted Kristel's
Speaker 1: biological father to be in his daughter's life, but that
Speaker 1: she was not going to relinquish custody of Crystal to Mark.
Speaker 1: Here's a brief reminder from episode ten of some of
Speaker 1: what Romwin wrote to Mark Davis and his parents in
Speaker 1: her letter in May nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 11: Dear Edita, Alwen, Mark and family. I thought i'd drop
Speaker 11: you a note since it costs so much for phone calls,
Speaker 11: and with the girls at school, I have the time.
Speaker 11: It's so long since we had some form of contact
Speaker 11: that I don't know where to start. Crystal has grown
Speaker 11: up into a lovely child, and I know you would
Speaker 11: be proud to be her grandparents and Mark would love
Speaker 11: her as well, but I'm not going to relinquish my custody.
Speaker 11: I will always be open to your suggestions on schooling
Speaker 11: and any other ideas you may have, and would welcome
Speaker 11: Mark as a friend to confide in with any issues
Speaker 11: that may arise, although the final decision will be mine,
Speaker 11: because if there's one thing I am good at, it
Speaker 11: as being a mother. I'm sure there is room for improvement,
Speaker 11: but it's what I love best in life, something sadly
Speaker 11: lacking in my teenage years.
Speaker 1: Roman's brother Andy Reid told me in episode ten that
Speaker 1: he believed Bromwin was looking to safeguard Crystal if anything
Speaker 1: happened to her.
Speaker 14: She was trying to ensure Crystal's well being if anything
Speaker 14: ever went wrong. She already asked and my comments to
Speaker 14: Michelle and May that if anything ever happens to me,
Speaker 14: promised me, you look after Crystals.
Speaker 1: But of course Bromwin's plans to reunite Crystal with Mark
Speaker 1: Davis in nineteen ninety three did not eventuate. Mark Davis
Speaker 1: would not be in regular contact with Crystal until nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five. She joined Mark and his family during school
Speaker 1: holidays and they spoke about Bromwin. Crystal made disclosures to
Speaker 1: Mark about what happened the night her mum disappeared, as
Speaker 1: with other witnesses. Matt Fordham began by taking Mark Davis
Speaker 1: through things that he had said in his nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: eight police statement.
Speaker 2: Firstly, sir, you say that you're describing Bronwin's character and
Speaker 2: you say that you're both very headstrong people.
Speaker 6: That's correct.
Speaker 1: Romwin and Mark Davis had planned to be married in
Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty four, but the wedding didn't happen. There
Speaker 1: were tensions in their relationship. Matt Fordham asked whether Bromwin
Speaker 1: would definitely go ahead with something once she had decided
Speaker 1: on it, or was she indecisive and likely to change
Speaker 1: her mind several times about something.
Speaker 15: I'd say that once she had made her mind up,
Speaker 15: she'd go ahead with it, which is probably a bit
Speaker 15: of the problem. We had a long I was the same.
Speaker 15: I wanted things done my way and she wanted things
Speaker 15: done her way, and nevertheto shall meet.
Speaker 1: By mid nineteen eighty five, they were not on speaking
Speaker 1: terms and Mark Davis was no longer seeing his daughter Crystal.
Speaker 1: And then in about early nineteen ninety, Mark saw Bromwin's sister,
Speaker 1: Melissa Reid, in a nightclub in the Shire called Carmen's.
Speaker 2: And at that time, sir, you were very keen to
Speaker 2: meet up with Crystal, your daughter. Is that correct?
Speaker 6: That's correct?
Speaker 15: And I just found out my mother had Parkinson's disease,
Speaker 15: and I just thought I'd like to get her Crystal
Speaker 15: to know my mother before the disease declined too far
Speaker 15: and she got to at least know her grandmother. I
Speaker 15: asked Melissa, could she contact Bronwin for me to see
Speaker 15: if it was possible to see Crystal, and she got
Speaker 15: to me the following week and I ran into her
Speaker 15: again at the nightclub and she said that Bronwin had
Speaker 15: said no.
Speaker 2: When Bromwin said no, do you remember was there any
Speaker 2: reason given or was there any explanation of that?
Speaker 15: Well, I think she was just trying to get on
Speaker 15: with her life and you know, sort of put that
Speaker 15: part of her life behind her, because Crystal didn't know
Speaker 15: that John wasn't her father at the time I met
Speaker 15: her when she was twelve, So nineteen ninety five I
Speaker 15: think was when we finally met again.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham was at a bit of a disadvantage. He
Speaker 1: did not have in front of him the letter that
Speaker 1: you just heard a voice actor read aloud, the one
Speaker 1: which Bromwin sent to Mark Davis and his parents. The
Speaker 1: letter had not yet been tended as a document at
Speaker 1: the inquest because it was still sitting in an old
Speaker 1: box of material which the detective Graham Diskin had collected
Speaker 1: during his investigation. It was only on day four of
Speaker 1: the inquest that the material was admitted as an exhibit,
Speaker 1: after Glenn Taylor went and retrieved the box It included
Speaker 1: drafts of Bromwin's letters to Mark and to others, and
Speaker 1: some of Bromwin's handwritten notes. But on day two Matt
Speaker 1: Fordham was traveling blind and he had to seek information
Speaker 1: about the letter from the witness.
Speaker 2: So that was the very first time that there was
Speaker 2: any intent on Bromwin's behalf to reunite yourself with Crystal.
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 6: That's correct.
Speaker 15: I think it was due because she was separating from
Speaker 15: John and thought that it was time for Crystal to
Speaker 15: know her real father.
Speaker 2: When you say that she was separating from John and
Speaker 2: it was time for Crystal to be reunited with her father,
Speaker 2: could you explain where that notion came from, Well.
Speaker 15: From the contents of the letter basically, and the nature
Speaker 15: of the phone call, and she basically told Mum that
Speaker 15: she wanted for us for Crystal to know her grandparents
Speaker 15: and her parentage.
Speaker 2: From your knowledge of the relationship between Jonathan Winfield and
Speaker 2: bron Winfield, does the fact that you were contacted by
Speaker 2: Bronwin does that signify to you that bronwin had made
Speaker 2: her mind up about the future of her relationship with Jonathan.
Speaker 15: Well, yes, it could also have meant that she may
Speaker 15: have feared for herself. She was making sure that if
Speaker 15: anything did happen to her, that Christel would be looked after.
Speaker 15: Did she ever express that to you, No, not in
Speaker 15: those words, but she definitely made her mind up that
Speaker 15: she wasn't going to go back to John.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham raised Mark's recollections from his statement of what
Speaker 1: Cristel had told Mark in around early nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1: They included Crystal hearing her parents arguing, Crystal going to
Speaker 1: bed at about eight point thirty, Crystal hearing a motorbike
Speaker 1: pull up outside the house, and finally Cristel's disclosure that
Speaker 1: her mum was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had not been
Speaker 1: taking her medication.
Speaker 2: Then he asked, all of these things that Crystal has
Speaker 2: told you, do you know what the source of that
Speaker 2: information was?
Speaker 15: Well, I now believe it was something she was told,
Speaker 15: not what she actually remembers, because there's a couple of
Speaker 15: things in there, like especially the part about the schizophrenia
Speaker 15: and the pills, Well, it's just not true. So somebody
Speaker 15: has implanted that thought in her at the stage the.
Speaker 2: Issue about the motorbike pulling up and hearing the sound
Speaker 2: of the motorbike do you also believe that Crystal was
Speaker 2: told that information?
Speaker 1: Oil, Well, I do yes. Bromwin's sister Kim Marshall told
Speaker 1: police in nineteen ninety eight that John had told her
Speaker 1: shortly after Broman's disappearance that she had been running around
Speaker 1: town on the back of a motorbike and flirting with
Speaker 1: men around town. He'll recall hearing Andy Reid talking about
Speaker 1: this in episode three.
Speaker 12: Jacko was a friend of the people that aimed the
Speaker 12: takeaway shop that Bromin used to work there, and he
Speaker 12: gave her a left home. So because he'd gave her
Speaker 12: a left home on a motorbike, all of a sudden,
Speaker 12: John's Oh, she's go there and around ten and she's
Speaker 12: in another relationship with some boke. She's on the back
Speaker 12: of a motorbike. He was very flustered about that.
Speaker 1: He didn't handle that well.
Speaker 2: Matt Fordham continued, and what's your opinion as to the
Speaker 2: source of that information about the motorbike.
Speaker 15: Well, I think it's either John's told her or Jody
Speaker 15: or somebody's been telling her.
Speaker 2: That's what happened when Crystal was relating this story to
Speaker 2: you in nineteen ninety seven or nineteen ninety eight. Did
Speaker 2: she use any descriptive words about the sound of the motorbike? No,
Speaker 2: did she describe its sound in any way, or did
Speaker 2: she said she heard a motorbike pull up. She didn't
Speaker 2: describe it, for example, the room of the motor or
Speaker 2: that the dak dak of the Harley or anything like that. No,
Speaker 2: I have nothing further, Your worship.
Speaker 1: John's lawyer had nothing to raise with Mark Davis, the
Speaker 1: next witness, would leave a strong impression on the inquest.
Speaker 1: Meghan reads lengthy stint under oath began with a stumble
Speaker 1: from Matt Fordham.
Speaker 2: You are her sister, Is that correct? No, I'm her
Speaker 2: first cousin, first cousin. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: There were two distinct parts to Meghan's evidence at the inquest.
Speaker 1: There's what she said in two thousand and two as
Speaker 1: a fierce defender of Bromwin, and then there are the
Speaker 1: notes that the detective Graham Diskin talked in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: It's in those notes that a very different picture of
Speaker 1: Bromwin is painted, and it purportedly is coming from Megan.
Speaker 1: Megan was taken to those notes during her time at
Speaker 1: the and it made for several intense exchanges particularly with
Speaker 1: John's lawyer Craig Leggett. Now listeners to the podcast know
Speaker 1: that Meghan is adamant that an impersonator, someone other than
Speaker 1: her but pretending to be her, must have given Graham
Speaker 1: Discan those comments and statements. In my first face to
Speaker 1: face meeting with Megan at her home on Sydney's Northern Beaches,
Speaker 1: I raised this issue and I asked her to go
Speaker 1: to one of the key documents and read from it. Meg,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to ask you to clearly and slowly
Speaker 1: read that statement. Okay, this is not a signed statement
Speaker 1: by Megan Reid. It is a document based on a
Speaker 1: telephone conversation between Detective Graham Discan and a woman who
Speaker 1: must have given him a name Megan read, But Megan
Speaker 1: insists that it was not her. On the telephone to
Speaker 1: the police officer in Ballina this.
Speaker 5: Date spoke to the cousin of the missing person Meghan read.
Speaker 5: Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to the MP
Speaker 5: Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance, and only
Speaker 5: that she was able to recognize her voice, she would
Speaker 5: not have believed that, in fact, it was Bromwin. Meghan
Speaker 5: stated that the missing person was talking a lot of
Speaker 5: rubbish but did not seem to be affected by drugs
Speaker 5: or alcohol. Statements were made like you will all pay
Speaker 5: none of you will know what is happening, and other
Speaker 5: statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated that she
Speaker 5: has no fears about John Winfield being involved in anything
Speaker 5: untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned. In
Speaker 5: the past, she has questioned Bromwin over her attitude and
Speaker 5: lies about John, and Bromwin admitted that she was seeking attention.
Speaker 5: She believes that John is a great father and care
Speaker 5: of the two children involved in the marriage, and would
Speaker 5: do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that
Speaker 5: in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and
Speaker 5: described her as a flower child, believing that she may
Speaker 5: well be living on a commune somewhere. She also had
Speaker 5: a passion for money and was on the lookout for
Speaker 5: a rich male to care for her if the opportunity arose. Absolutely, Booter,
Speaker 5: I never ever would say that John told me that
Speaker 5: she was at the age of Aquarius commune. This is
Speaker 5: John's words. It's just so far from true. I mean,
Speaker 5: I don't understand this at all. I didn't even know
Speaker 5: it existed until recently, and I'm very upset about it,
Speaker 5: which is I didn't do it.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 5: The coroner at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena started discan,
Speaker 5: but unfortunately he went off on the medical stress leeve
Speaker 5: or something, and he had medical exemption from being subpoened
Speaker 5: in court.
Speaker 1: And Meghan had told Glenn Taylor in nineteen ninety eight
Speaker 1: that Bromwin said John had threatened her if she ever
Speaker 1: made a claim on his house, threatened Bromwin how exactly.
Speaker 1: At the inquest, Meghan went further, John, Meghan said, had
Speaker 1: threatened to kill Bromwin if she ever tried to claim
Speaker 1: the house. Matt Fordham kicked things off by asking Megan
Speaker 1: about a conversation that she said she had with Bromwin
Speaker 1: when Bromwin confided something about what John had said.
Speaker 5: Bromwin has always told me that John had lost previous
Speaker 5: homes when they lost either through settlement or whatever, homes
Speaker 5: that he built to previous wives, and he was determined
Speaker 5: at this one he would never lose, you know. And
Speaker 5: she told me that he would kill her before he
Speaker 5: let her have that house.
Speaker 2: Do you remember where you were when she told you.
Speaker 5: That she told me that on numerous occasions over the years.
Speaker 5: It's not just once.
Speaker 2: And when she was telling you this in person, was
Speaker 2: she describing any event that prompted her to say this
Speaker 2: to you or was she putting it in any context?
Speaker 5: Well, certainly when she was in the townhouse at the end,
Speaker 5: she was very concerned for her safety, definitely, and I
Speaker 5: was too, I was concerned for her safety.
Speaker 2: Are you able to recall, ma'am, when the first occasion
Speaker 2: that she'd use the words that John would kill her?
Speaker 2: Are you able to remember, Oh, well.
Speaker 5: That would have been back in Cranullah, when she was
Speaker 5: describing to me how possessive he was and how he
Speaker 5: kept her. He would not let her see her friends,
Speaker 5: and he would only give her a very small amouth
Speaker 5: money for food. You know, she had to budget for everything.
Speaker 5: He was very you know, dictated everything to her.
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan ever have any conversations with you about the
Speaker 2: loss of two previous houses to previous wives.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't recall that. I didn't talk
Speaker 5: to John about that.
Speaker 11: No.
Speaker 1: The claims and counterclaims around what John lost or gained
Speaker 1: after the end of his relationships with previous Partners will
Speaker 1: become part of a later episode. It arises again in
Speaker 1: the evidence. At the inquest, Matt Fordham brought Megan to
Speaker 1: a matter that had caused bromin a lot of distress.
Speaker 5: Are you talking about the abortion here?
Speaker 14: Yes?
Speaker 5: Yes, she wanted to have the baby.
Speaker 2: And how was it that she came to make the
Speaker 2: decision to abort the pregnancy.
Speaker 5: John said she couldn't have the baby.
Speaker 2: That was it.
Speaker 5: She had to have an abortion.
Speaker 1: The police officer asked her about a conversation in late
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two in which Bromwin disclosed John physically assaulting her.
Speaker 5: Yes, she told myself and my family, and she told
Speaker 5: us that John had picked up a chair and thrown
Speaker 5: it at her. She had bruises too. We saw her
Speaker 5: in Sydney when she told us that.
Speaker 2: Do you remember whereabouts on her body you saw bruises?
Speaker 5: They were on her legs. I think, look, I'm not
Speaker 5: really one hundred percent sure about that, but I do
Speaker 5: remember her telling me, telling us I should say about
Speaker 5: that the family.
Speaker 2: But on the occasions or do you remember how long
Speaker 2: it was before she disappeared that you saw bruises on her?
Speaker 5: Yes, definitely, that was the Christmas. Well, it would have
Speaker 5: been Boxing Day, I think when they came for lunch,
Speaker 5: and then John disappeared and he didn't come back for lunch,
Speaker 5: and she stayed with my parents for a week before
Speaker 5: they flew her back to Lennox said, and Crystal, I
Speaker 5: should say alone.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked further questions about the Boxing Day lunch,
Speaker 1: where Meghan recalled John had returned to Lennox Head without warning,
Speaker 1: leaving Bromwin and the children stranded in Sydney. And you
Speaker 1: heard about this in episode two.
Speaker 3: Boxing Day was.
Speaker 5: To read Christmas always, the whole turkey and all the
Speaker 5: rest of it, and so bonn Win and the family
Speaker 5: were all there.
Speaker 16: He never would have thought anything was wrong, no fight
Speaker 16: for whatever. And he said he'd be back by one day,
Speaker 16: two o'clock for lunch. Well he never showed up and
Speaker 16: it wasn't tull about nine hours later that we found
Speaker 16: it as he was back at Lenox Shared but he
Speaker 16: had just driven back.
Speaker 1: What was his explanation for just taking.
Speaker 5: Off all there wasn't run. We never got an explanation.
Speaker 5: Where were godsmacks?
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Megan to recount these events.
Speaker 2: How did Brown react? When she was stranded by Jonathan.
Speaker 5: She wasn't surprised at all and she was happy actually,
Speaker 5: and Kristal was too. I mean they were given free rein.
Speaker 5: I think she was very relaxed.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham then turned to phone conversations that Meghan said
Speaker 1: that she'd had with Bromwin while Bromin was living away
Speaker 1: from John in Byron Street, Lennox Head and John was
Speaker 1: working in Illawong in Sydney.
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you what her attitude towards
Speaker 2: her marriage was.
Speaker 5: She was terrified of John. It was over, absolutely over.
Speaker 5: I heard John banging on the door. I could hear
Speaker 5: him yelling and screaming. I mean I heard that. She
Speaker 5: told me lots of events where he'd shown violence. She
Speaker 5: had actually ripped the phone out of the wall at
Speaker 5: one stage to stop him ringing. She was terribly fearful.
Speaker 5: She told me that she had contacted a solicitor and
Speaker 5: been told to take possession back of the house because
Speaker 5: possession being nine tenths of the law, and she also
Speaker 5: had no money and no family.
Speaker 2: Just firstly, ma'am, referring to the phone being ripped out
Speaker 2: of the wall by Bronwin, did that occur at the
Speaker 2: flat or the house.
Speaker 5: At the flat, and I actually spoke to Crystal about
Speaker 5: this and she remembers the event she was there.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Meghan about the banging on the door
Speaker 1: of Bromwin's flat and whether Meghan could say with confidence
Speaker 1: that it was John Well.
Speaker 5: I believe so, and I can't imagine anybody else doing that,
Speaker 5: and she was yelling at him to stop and go away.
Speaker 5: I know also that she wanted soul custody of the
Speaker 5: children and she was trying to just keep well away
Speaker 5: from him, and she wouldn't let the children near him.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that she had disclosed to you that she
Speaker 2: had spoken to a solicitor about correct that's.
Speaker 5: Where she wanted to get some money from my parents.
Speaker 5: She needed a retainer to keep that solicitor and he
Speaker 5: had told her to move back into the house immediately,
Speaker 5: which she did, and you know what happened.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Meghan about Bromin's decision to move back
Speaker 1: in on the afternoon of Friday, May fourteen, nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you what she feared may
Speaker 2: have happened had Jonathan found out that she was living
Speaker 2: inside the house.
Speaker 5: Well, she'd always indicated that he would kill her if
Speaker 5: she tried to get the house.
Speaker 1: The police officer turned to another topic, Meghan's diary entries.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three, they presented a documentary record which
Speaker 1: noted conversations and events that occurred after Bromin's disappearance. Matt
Speaker 1: Fordham had some of the pages in front of him
Speaker 1: as he asked Meghan questions and sought to clarify key
Speaker 1: dates and details. He took Meghan to an entry dated Friday,
Speaker 1: May fourteenth and presented her with a photocopy of the page.
Speaker 2: You recorded that Bromwin moved home for some reason. Solicitor
Speaker 2: or clairvoyant John flew up to find out. She told
Speaker 2: him she had op opportunity to have holiday and left
Speaker 2: with guy don't know who. John bundled up the kids
Speaker 2: and took to Sydney. Ma'am, do you remember whether it
Speaker 2: was your usual habit at the time to make the entry?
Speaker 5: This has been written afterwards?
Speaker 2: Sorry, just listen to the questions, mayor Yes, sorry, you
Speaker 2: said that it had been written afterwards. Do you remember
Speaker 2: how long after fourteen May you'd made the entry? On
Speaker 2: that day?
Speaker 5: I could tell if I had the next diary page,
Speaker 5: thank you, it's been written here. Let me see, I'll
Speaker 5: make sure it's right here, i'd say. On the next week,
Speaker 5: the Friday, the twenty first, it looks like the same pen.
Speaker 5: I don't know why, but I did.
Speaker 2: And so it's the case that at some stage, perhaps
Speaker 2: a week later, you'd gone back and made the entry
Speaker 2: on fourteen May. Is that correct?
Speaker 5: I believe so, Yes, well, I must have. I must
Speaker 5: have written that when I spoke to John and he
Speaker 5: told me that she was gone. And then because I
Speaker 5: spoke to her and she told me the solicitor had
Speaker 5: told her to move back into the house and that's
Speaker 5: what she was doing. I actually spoke to her at
Speaker 5: the house, okay, when she was back there, before John
Speaker 5: had gone up there.
Speaker 1: He asked Megan about the regular phone calls she shared
Speaker 1: with Bromwin.
Speaker 2: Did it strike you as strange that the phone calls ceased?
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Absolutely, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: He took Megan back to the diary note about Bromwin
Speaker 1: supposedly taking an opportunity to take a holiday and leaving
Speaker 1: with an unknown male.
Speaker 2: The source of that information was that Jonathan Winfield.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct, do you ever hear.
Speaker 2: From any other friend or relative of Bronwyn that she
Speaker 2: had left with a guy?
Speaker 5: No, I didn't.
Speaker 2: Was it ever suggested to you by anyone other than
Speaker 2: Jonathan Winfield that she had left to have a holiday?
Speaker 5: Absolutely? No one. No a holiday for two days?
Speaker 7: Two days.
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan tell you that Bronwin said anything that time?
Speaker 5: Nothing apart from oh, I'm glad you're here. I've had
Speaker 5: the opportunity to go away for the weekend, and would
Speaker 5: you I'm looking after the kids.
Speaker 2: See you, and you're quite firm on would you mind.
Speaker 5: I'm quite firm on that because I was so surprised.
Speaker 5: I can't believe that. I couldn't believe that Bromwin would
Speaker 5: say that. I just don't believe it.
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan indicate to you who it may have been
Speaker 2: that she had left with the clairvoyant?
Speaker 5: He told me that Bromwin believed the Clearvoyant is a
Speaker 5: reincarnagent something or other of her father.
Speaker 1: Meghan's diary entries are a compelling record of what John
Speaker 1: Winfield purportedly said to Megan in May nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: It's there in black and white, dated at the time
Speaker 1: the conversations were said to have happened. The police investigation
Speaker 1: had ruled out any possible involvement from the tarot card
Speaker 1: reader and clairvoyant known as Pendragon. He had even been
Speaker 1: placed under police surveillance in nineteen ninety three as part
Speaker 1: of the Detective Graham Diskin's investigation. Matt Fordham continued with
Speaker 1: Megan's diary entries by bringing her to one maid on
Speaker 1: May twenty five, nineteen ninety three, a day when John,
Speaker 1: with Crystal and Lauren visited Meghan in Sydney.
Speaker 2: Ma'am, you say that, or it's recorded in your diary
Speaker 2: that John, Cristal and Lauren coming to stay today tonight.
Speaker 2: Both kids and John need therapy desperately. And then you say,
Speaker 2: Crystal told me that Braun told her that John is
Speaker 2: not her father Mark Davis is. She does not want
Speaker 2: to know him. She said that Braun ripped the phone
Speaker 2: off the wall. Lauren very withdrawn. Crystal does need help, therapy,
Speaker 2: wants to stay with me. And then you say that
Speaker 2: you remember Jonathan and the kids arriving here. Yes, And
Speaker 2: in your statement, ma'am, you say that Jonathan told you
Speaker 2: that Bronwyn had gone off with some guy in a car,
Speaker 2: that she was due back home in Lennox Head in
Speaker 2: a few days.
Speaker 5: That's correct. Myself and my husband at that time was there.
Speaker 1: It is interesting to note that Meghan wrote in her
Speaker 1: diary in May nineteen ninety three that Crystal had disclosed
Speaker 1: bromwhen ripping the telephone off the wall. The police officer
Speaker 1: asked about John's demeanor on his visit to Meghan's home
Speaker 1: in Sydney.
Speaker 2: And ma'am also in your statement, you describe his demeanor
Speaker 2: at the time. Do you remember what it was?
Speaker 5: I've honestly never seen anything like it before. He was shaking,
Speaker 5: He was practically frothing at the mouse. I was terrified.
Speaker 5: I didn't know what had happened, but I knew that
Speaker 5: it was something more than someone missing. I just didn't know.
Speaker 2: What sort of emotions. Did Jonathan's behavior depicted to.
Speaker 5: You someone who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Speaker 5: I believed I believed he was either having one or
Speaker 5: he was on the verge of one.
Speaker 2: When you say that he was shaking, he was.
Speaker 5: Shaking, he was crying, he was babbling, and the children
Speaker 5: were just in shock. They were just white and wide
Speaker 5: eyed and staring and not doing anything. It was really sad. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Could it have been that Jonathan was distressed about the disappearance, I.
Speaker 5: Very much doubt it. I mean it was over the top,
Speaker 5: it really was. He needed help. I believed at that
Speaker 5: stage he needed help, some serious psychiatric help, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: And ma'am, also later in your diary on twenty six,
Speaker 2: may you record that John and the kids left at
Speaker 2: four thirty am. Yes, And I take it that they
Speaker 2: were leaving to return to Lennox Head. Is that correct?
Speaker 5: Yes, I'd say so.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: On twenty seven May, ma'am, you've recorded in your diary,
Speaker 2: John arrived home, no sign of brawn. He talked to
Speaker 2: her friends who thought she was on the verge of
Speaker 2: a breakdown or having one. Yes, has been seeing a
Speaker 2: clairvoyant on a regular basis. Thinks that it's her dad
Speaker 2: in a spirit form.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 2: That information. Were you able to confirm that information from
Speaker 2: anybody else?
Speaker 5: No, absolutely not. John told me that information. He also
Speaker 5: told me that they had found himself and I believe
Speaker 5: the landlord of the townhouse numerous empty bottles of alcohol,
Speaker 5: empty packets are valium in there when she vacated, So
Speaker 5: he indicated that she might be like, you know, an
Speaker 5: alcoholic drug addict as well.
Speaker 2: And the information that the clairvoyant, that Bromwin may have
Speaker 2: thought that clairvoyant was her father in spirit form. Did
Speaker 2: Bromwin ever disclose that to you directly?
Speaker 5: Brown never spoke to me about a clairvoyant whatsoever ever,
Speaker 5: never heard of it.
Speaker 2: And so Jonathan was the source of that information, that's correct.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham brought Megan to a diary entry dated Monday
Speaker 1: July twelve, just under two months after Bromwin's disappearance, and.
Speaker 2: You'd agree there that on that date there is a
Speaker 2: record that says John found that Braun returned whilst he
Speaker 2: was away. She had took her close and his genes photos,
Speaker 2: left a signed Medicare check, he.
Speaker 5: Said, basically with the genes going, he said to me
Speaker 5: that he believed she had a boyfriend and therefore he'd
Speaker 5: taken the genes also the photos of the children, and
Speaker 5: left assigned Medicare check and taken all her personal possessions.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham next turned to Meghan's evidence in her nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight police statement that John had made several disclosures
Speaker 1: to her about Bromwin being seen alive after May nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three. It must have been clear to the inquest
Speaker 1: by now that Meghan and John had stayed in regular
Speaker 1: close contact. There were three separate conversations where Meghan remembered
Speaker 1: John telling her that Bromwin was alive and had been seen.
Speaker 1: Meghan recalled John telling her that Bromwin had been found
Speaker 1: by police at Coff's Harbor, at a commune known as
Speaker 1: the Age of Aquarius. Matt Fordham asked if Meghan had
Speaker 1: shared this information with any members of the family.
Speaker 5: Look, everybody, I spoke to, everybody I knew about it.
Speaker 5: Of course we were also worried about Bromwin.
Speaker 2: Have you heard that information from anybody other than Jonathan Winfield.
Speaker 11: No.
Speaker 5: In fact, when I confirmed it with the police, I
Speaker 5: found out it was not true.
Speaker 2: When you say you confirmed it with the police, did
Speaker 2: you make some inquiries with the Coff's Harbor police.
Speaker 5: No, not Coff's Harbor. I rang balin of police eventually.
Speaker 5: I don't know when, but I did, and I found
Speaker 5: it wasn't true because I wanted it to be true.
Speaker 1: Meghan could not recall the second occasion, when John purportedly
Speaker 1: told her that police had found Bromwin alive, but Meghan
Speaker 1: could remember the third occasion. She said it was when
Speaker 1: John visited her while she was on holiday with her
Speaker 1: parents and children in Queenland, possibly in early nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5: He was coming for lunch to my parents' apartment which
Speaker 5: I was staying in for the school holidays with my children,
Speaker 5: for lunch and he ended up staying for four days
Speaker 5: or something, not that he was invited.
Speaker 2: And you say in your statement, ma'am, that Jonathan told
Speaker 2: you that Bronwin was alive and well and living in Brisbane.
Speaker 2: That's correct, but that he didn't elaborate any further and
Speaker 2: didn't want to say much more about it.
Speaker 5: He told me that she had been found and he
Speaker 5: told me that he had seen her, and he told
Speaker 5: her not to come back now because he didn't want
Speaker 5: her to hurt children anymore.
Speaker 1: This last bit from Meghan that the inquest was new.
Speaker 1: Meghan had told Glen Taylor in nineteen ninety eight that
Speaker 1: on this holiday in Queensland in early nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: John told her that Roman had been found by police
Speaker 1: in Brisbane and that he didn't want anything to do
Speaker 1: with her. But if Meghan had told Glen Taylor in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight what she was telling the inquest in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, which was that John said he'd
Speaker 1: actually talked to Bronwin and told her not to come back.
Speaker 1: Then it had not made its way into her nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight signed statement. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett must have
Speaker 1: been relishing the opportunity to cross examine Megan about these discrepancies.
Speaker 2: Do you remember what Jonathan's demeanor was when he told
Speaker 2: you about this?
Speaker 5: It was very matter of fact, completely, Look, it was
Speaker 5: very clear I was not to speak to the children
Speaker 5: at all about the disappearance. I never could and he
Speaker 5: never spoke about it.
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan ever indicate to you that he was disappointed
Speaker 2: that Bronwin hadn't returned from her brief holiday.
Speaker 5: No, he said he wouldn't take it back if she
Speaker 5: wanted to come.
Speaker 2: Back, ma'am. Obviously, being a close friend of Bronwin, you
Speaker 2: would have an opinion as to how she felt towards
Speaker 2: her children.
Speaker 5: She was the most devotion mother I've ever come across.
Speaker 5: All she ever wanted was the picket fence and the family.
Speaker 5: That's it, I mean, that's all she'd ever said to me.
Speaker 5: From you know, little kids when we were growing up together.
Speaker 5: She had asked me, just prior to my marriage in
Speaker 5: December nine eighty six, if in the event anything happened
Speaker 5: to her, that I would take.
Speaker 1: Crystal Bromwin's cousin, Megan Reed made a startling new disclosure.
Speaker 1: It occurred during a short break from Morning Tea. The
Speaker 1: police officer and lawyer Matt Fordham asked Megan about it
Speaker 1: when she was back behind the witness stand.
Speaker 2: Ma'am, just when we adjourned a short time ago for
Speaker 2: morning Tea. Is it the case that you approached me
Speaker 2: inside the courtroom here and told me something that Crystal
Speaker 2: had told you.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 2: Could you tell us what that was?
Speaker 5: This was, I'd say early December of last year. Crystal
Speaker 5: told me, when she was in the car driving back
Speaker 5: to Sydney on the night that her mother disappeared, that
Speaker 5: she knew she would never see her mother again.
Speaker 2: Did she say why she felt that way?
Speaker 5: She just said she felt that way she knew she'd
Speaker 5: never see her again.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham had finished with Megan's nineteen ninety eight police statement.
Speaker 1: He turned now to the statements recorded in Detective Sergeant
Speaker 1: Graham Diskin's running sheets in nineteen ninety three those controversial
Speaker 1: comments which were purportedly uttered by Megan and noted by
Speaker 1: Discan just a brief recap. The entry dated September two,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three noted that Discan had talked to Megan
Speaker 1: Reid and she'd told him that she had spoken to Bromwin.
Speaker 1: In the days leading up to her disappearance. Graham Diskin
Speaker 1: wrote that Megan told him that Bromwin was talking a
Speaker 1: lot of rubbish and had made statements like you will
Speaker 1: all pay and none of you will know what is happening.
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham read these statements aloud in the courtroom, and
Speaker 1: Meghan jumped in to offer for an explanation.
Speaker 5: I now know what that meant. She had approached my
Speaker 5: parents to borrow money to retain a solicitor, and my
Speaker 5: parents had denied her that, and she was very upset
Speaker 5: with the family, and she had felt that we had
Speaker 5: betrayed her, and that's what that was about. And she
Speaker 5: was very angry, and she thought that I knew about it,
Speaker 5: and I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 2: And Sergeant Diskin says that these conversations occurred days before
Speaker 2: her disappearance. Do you remember how long it was before
Speaker 2: she disappeared.
Speaker 5: It was only days before her disappearance that she had
Speaker 5: retained the solicitor who told her to, you know, move
Speaker 5: back into the house. So yes, because that was yes,
Speaker 5: it was the last time my mother spoke to her
Speaker 5: was when my mother said to her that she couldn't
Speaker 5: have the money.
Speaker 2: Did you ever tell Sergeant Discan that Bromwin told you
Speaker 2: none of you will know what is happening.
Speaker 5: I might have. I don't know what that meant, though.
Speaker 2: You can't think of any particular issues that may have
Speaker 2: prompted you to say that may have been the context
Speaker 2: for that comment from Bronwin, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know, but I do know that it was about
Speaker 5: the money, the money issue, and that she did feel
Speaker 5: that we had let her down.
Speaker 2: Ma'am, I'll just read out the next paragraph of the
Speaker 2: report and I'll ask you to comment on the source
Speaker 2: of the information and the context of it also, Sergeant
Speaker 2: Discan reports. Megan stated that she has no fears about
Speaker 2: John Winfield being involved in anything untoward so far as
Speaker 2: his wife's disappearance is concerned. In the past, she has
Speaker 2: questioned Bronwin over her attitude and lies about John and
Speaker 2: Bronwin admitted that she was seeking attention.
Speaker 5: I don't remember saying that, and it goes against my
Speaker 5: character to say that, because I've always maintained he was
Speaker 5: involved right from the word go. I couldn't see that
Speaker 5: there could be possibly any other reason.
Speaker 2: And is it the case that you suggest that Sergeant
Speaker 2: Diskin's comments there are incorrect, Yes, I do. Can you
Speaker 2: think of anything that you may have said to Sergeant
Speaker 2: Discan that may have led him to believe that that
Speaker 2: was your attitude?
Speaker 5: I have no idea how that could have happened, I
Speaker 5: honestly do.
Speaker 2: Not, ma'am. Sergeant Discan also records she believes that John
Speaker 2: is a great father and career of the two children
Speaker 2: involved in the marriage, and would do nothing to upset
Speaker 2: the children. Meghan also believes that in the past, Ronon
Speaker 2: was a user of cannabis and described her as a
Speaker 2: flower child, believing that she may well be living on
Speaker 2: a commune somewhere. She also had a passion for money
Speaker 2: and was on the lookout for a rich male to
Speaker 2: care for her if the opportunity arose.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that's not true, Absolutely not true. Absolutely.
Speaker 5: I would never say that, Absolutely not, not unless I've
Speaker 5: lost my mind completely. No, I would never say that.
Speaker 1: It must have been an uncomfortable time for Megan Red.
Speaker 2: Can you think of anything that you may have said
Speaker 2: to Sergeant Discan that may have led him to believe
Speaker 2: that that was.
Speaker 5: I could only be repeating things that John had told me.
Speaker 5: Apart from that, there's absolutely no way I would have
Speaker 5: said that.
Speaker 2: I understand that that's your belief today. Could it have
Speaker 2: been your belief in September nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 5: It's been my belief from the word go. No, I
Speaker 5: could never have believed that about Bronwyn, never, not ever,
Speaker 5: There's not even his largest possibility.
Speaker 2: The report continues. It says Megan stated that Bronwin has
Speaker 2: always been upset over the death of her father some
Speaker 2: years ago, and by the fact that she was luckless
Speaker 2: in his estate because he was a bankrupt at the
Speaker 2: time of his death.
Speaker 5: I didn't know that. Excuse me, until right now. I
Speaker 5: didn't know that.
Speaker 2: No, Sergeant Diston goes on, ma'am. He says, all monies
Speaker 2: went to paying outstanding debts. Bronwin, until just prior to
Speaker 2: her disappearance, has been supported for money from Megan's father.
Speaker 2: Bronwin's uncle. However, he has declined to continue in that vein,
Speaker 2: and Bronwin was somewhat upset by that is that information.
Speaker 5: My father never maintained her whatsoever. And I don't believe
Speaker 5: that was me that spoke to him. It was over
Speaker 5: the telephone. It wasn't me. It definitely wasn't me. None
Speaker 5: of this is true.
Speaker 2: Do you know any other members of the family that
Speaker 2: may have given this information to There is.
Speaker 5: Nobody that spoke to the police other than myself and
Speaker 5: my mother and my father. And I was with the
Speaker 5: police when they interviewed my parents. And I know for
Speaker 5: a fact that she wanted the money to retain a solicitor,
Speaker 5: and they didn't come forward with the money. And that
Speaker 5: is the only time my father did not support Bromwin,
Speaker 5: only when she was left there at the house in
Speaker 5: the previous December. I don't believe that was me who
Speaker 5: spoke to whoever that was.
Speaker 2: And you understand that, of course, I'm not criticizing you
Speaker 2: in any way, I know.
Speaker 5: But you understand, of course my position. That's not me.
Speaker 5: I didn't say any of those things.
Speaker 2: There may well have been some errors that were were
Speaker 2: not errors.
Speaker 5: That's totally untrue.
Speaker 1: That Forham explored the possibility with Megan that someone else
Speaker 1: had made a phone call two Graham Diskin in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three, pretending to be her.
Speaker 2: Yes, I understand that, ma'am. Could you tell us do
Speaker 2: you remember what your telephone number in Sydney was in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three?
Speaker 5: Oh? Gee, I don't know. Nineteen ninety three could have
Speaker 5: been zero, two four something or other?
Speaker 2: Was your phone number four four nine nine seven eighty five?
Speaker 5: That's right?
Speaker 2: And do you remember who else was living with you
Speaker 2: at that telephone number at that time?
Speaker 5: My husband and my children and friends coming and going.
Speaker 5: But no, I don't look, I just.
Speaker 2: Don't know, ma'am. For the sake of completeness, I will
Speaker 2: continue with the things that Sergeant Diskin has recorded in September,
Speaker 2: and I'll ask you to comment on them also, he says.
Speaker 2: Megan also reiterated the fact that her mother did exactly
Speaker 2: the same thing some years ago, and believes that one
Speaker 2: day she will walk back into the family home as
Speaker 2: if nothing happened, due to her state of mind at
Speaker 2: the time of her disappearance. No, have you ever discussed
Speaker 2: that issue with Sergeant Diskin.
Speaker 5: I don't know whether I've discussed that issue, but I
Speaker 5: don't believe that Bromwell was anything like her mother. I
Speaker 5: discussed with a psychiatrist at the time of her disappearance,
Speaker 5: right or shortly thereafter, when John suggested to me that
Speaker 5: perhaps she was like her mother, I discussed with the
Speaker 5: psychiatrist whether you know what we would see of and
Speaker 5: I didn't believe ever that she was of anything other
Speaker 5: than sound mind. I mean, her mother was a completely
Speaker 5: different situation, ma'am.
Speaker 2: If you had spoken to the police investigating the disappearance
Speaker 2: of Bronwin would have been something that you would have
Speaker 2: recorded in your diary.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Do you know whether there are any diary entries that
Speaker 2: relate to when was this in September of nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: The rest of the diary is not here. I don't know,
Speaker 5: but I mean those things, I mean, I've never ever
Speaker 5: thought that about Bromwin never. I've always sort of been
Speaker 5: a champion for Bromwin. I mean, I've always felt that
Speaker 5: she's the underdog.
Speaker 2: I've nothing further, your worship.
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, was far more pointed in his
Speaker 1: questioning Meghan had made very serious allegations about his client,
Speaker 1: John wanted these taken head on. Craig Leggett began with
Speaker 1: a discrepancy. It revolved around what Meghan claimed that John
Speaker 1: had told her while visiting her on holiday in Queensland
Speaker 1: about Bromwin being seen in the state capital of Brisbane.
Speaker 6: Miss read, I want to deal with the allegation that
Speaker 6: you've made this morning that mister Winfield said to you
Speaker 6: words to the effect I've seen Bromwin in Brisbane and
Speaker 6: I've told her not to come home.
Speaker 5: That's correct.
Speaker 6: You're aware you're on oath, aren't you.
Speaker 5: Yes, I am, Yes, I am.
Speaker 6: You can search in vain in your written statement for
Speaker 6: any reference to a conversation where John Winfield told you
Speaker 6: that he had actually seen Bronman and that he had
Speaker 6: said to her don't come home. It's just not in
Speaker 6: your statement, is it.
Speaker 5: Well, it may not be, but it happened.
Speaker 6: Is there a reason why it's not in your statement?
Speaker 5: Probably because I've forgotten about it. I don't know. But
Speaker 5: he told me on many occasions that she had been cited,
Speaker 5: so I didn't believe it anyway, but I know where
Speaker 5: it happened and when it happened.
Speaker 6: Just pausing there you said. Just then you said, he
Speaker 6: told me on many occasions she had been cited, didn't she?
Speaker 5: That's right by the police, like was or they knew
Speaker 5: where she was well?
Speaker 6: Cited? Is the word you volunteered?
Speaker 5: Well? Cited? Well, they knew where she was had been found?
Speaker 5: Sorry was the word no?
Speaker 6: When you said found?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 9: All right?
Speaker 5: Cited? Found? That's what I meant to you.
Speaker 6: It's the same, is it sighting and being found?
Speaker 5: Well, yes, she's alive, then, isn't she if she's been cited?
Speaker 6: Yes, So you agree with me that most likely Jonathan
Speaker 6: Winfield said to you there have been sightings of Bronwin.
Speaker 5: No, Well, which on which occasion are we referring to?
Speaker 6: Well, you referred to numerous occasions when he.
Speaker 5: Said, no, on which occasion are you referring to?
Speaker 6: At the moment I'm asking the questions. A moment ago
Speaker 6: in the witness box on oath, you said words to
Speaker 6: the effect Jonathan told me on numerous occasions that bronwin
Speaker 6: had been cited. That's what you said, wasn't it?
Speaker 5: Yes? I think so.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 1: Craig Leggott turned to Megan's recollection of John's visit to
Speaker 1: her with the children in Sydney on May twenty five,
Speaker 1: nine days after Bromin's disappearance. Meagan described John in her
Speaker 1: statement as a shaking, crying mess, adding that he had
Speaker 1: put it across that he was upset that Bromwin had
Speaker 1: taken off with another man.
Speaker 6: Now, can I suggest to you that in your written
Speaker 6: statement what you were endeavoring to convey was that Jonathan
Speaker 6: was putting on an act and that you could see
Speaker 6: through it.
Speaker 5: No, that's not correct. I didn't believe he was acting.
Speaker 6: Well, what did you mean by he put it across
Speaker 6: that he was upset.
Speaker 5: Well, because I believe that. I didn't believe he was
Speaker 5: upset that she got off with another man. I didn't
Speaker 5: believe that anybody could be in that state over something
Speaker 5: so well another man, because I just I didn't believe it.
Speaker 5: It seemed very unusual for somebody to be in that
Speaker 5: kind of situation.
Speaker 1: If those present had any doubt about John's lawyer's view
Speaker 1: of Megan's credibility and her evidence, then those doubts were
Speaker 1: dispelled with the next question.
Speaker 6: Now, what I'm suggesting to you is that, for some
Speaker 6: reason best known to you in the witness box today,
Speaker 6: you are embellishing you are to use the vernacular being
Speaker 6: a drama queen. Now I want to give you an
Speaker 6: opportunity to address that allegation.
Speaker 1: Tensions in the courtroom were already high, but they were
Speaker 1: about to elevate further as John's lawyer tightened the screws
Speaker 1: on Bromman's friend and cousin, Megan Reid. Is written and
Speaker 1: investigated by me Headley Thomas as a podcast production for
Speaker 1: The Australian. If anyone has information which may help solve
Speaker 1: this cold case, please contact me confidentially by emailing Bronwyn
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. You can read
Speaker 1: more about this case and see a range of photographs
Speaker 1: and other artwork at the website Bronwyn podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first. The production
Speaker 1: and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiot,
Speaker 1: Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez,
Speaker 1: Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray, with assistance from
Speaker 1: Isaac Iron's. Audio production for this podcast series is by
Speaker 1: Wasabi Audio and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We
Speaker 1: have been assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield.
Speaker 6: We can only do this kind of journalism with.
Speaker 1: The support of our subscribers and our major sponsors like
Speaker 1: Harvey Norman. For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps,
Speaker 1: timelines and documents about this podcast and other podcasts including
Speaker 1: The Teacher's Pet, The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story,
Speaker 1: Shandy's Legacy and The Night Driver. Go to the Australian
Speaker 1: dot com dot au and subscribe