WEBVTT - Episode 27: Megan's Court Showdown 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Brown contains course 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.239 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.440 Your Worship. An issue arose yesterday morning in relation to 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.240 a possible sighting of the missing person. On that issue, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.000 i'd seek to call Jody Maine when. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.480 The courtroom reopened for the second day of the inquest. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.000 It wasn't the prime suspect, John Winfield, but he's daughter Jody, 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.480 who was ushered forward to give evidence on an important 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.840 matter that had come up the day before. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.480 And ma'am, do you understand? I just want to ask 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.119 you some very brief questions about a telephone call that 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.760 you received yesterday morning, and at a later stage in 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.600 this inquest I will be asking you some further questions 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:21.400 about this matter. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:27.560 Yep, let's pause to recap. Jody had received a phone 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.680 call on the previous day from a woman named Kayleen Jones. 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.000 According to Jody, Kayleen had called the Winfield family home 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.320 in Lennox Head about eight thirty am asking to speak 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.600 to Crystal Becurse. The caller had some photographs to share 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:50.560 with Crystal of Bromwin and Crystal's biological father, Mark Davis. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:56.120 Kayleen then purportedly went into detail about the night that 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:01.360 Crystal was conceived, and then, according to Jody, Kayleen shared 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.960 with Jody a startling piece of information. Bromwin had been 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:13.120 seen alive. According to Jody, Kayleen's friend Joanne was confident 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.680 that she had seen Bromwin out Nimbu and Weh, referencing 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.600 the small hippie town less than an hour from where 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.400 the court sat in Lismore. The stunning revelation caused to 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.960 stir in the courtroom. On day one, police officers Matt 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.280 Fordham and Glen Taylor set about checking the rumor as 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.760 a matter of priority. As you heard in the previous episode, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.880 Glen Taylor told the inquest that he had spoken to 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.160 Joanne Guthrie and she had denied telling Kayleen that Bromwin 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.480 was out Nimbenweh. Joanne had said she had no evidence 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.720 at all of this being true. It was clear by 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.160 the morning of day two that the possibility of Bromwin 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.120 being alive and living somewhere near Nimbeni was unfounded. But 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.919 now Matt Fordham, the police officer assisting the coroner, had 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.920 questions for Jody. He was clearly skeptical about some details 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.840 that Jody had told him the previous day about the 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:18.120 phone call with Kayleen. He also had questions about what 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:22.960 Jody didn't tell him, Questions like why didn't Jody tell 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:28.640 him Kayleen or Joanne surnames? If she didn't know, why 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.000 hadn't she asked Kayleen? If Jody really believed that Bromwin 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.360 had been seen out nimb and way as she put it, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.480 then surely she would have been at pains to get 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.160 those details from Kayleen. Why had she told only half 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:45.880 the story? Ma'am? 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.080 Is it the case that yesterday at about eleven fifteen 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.920 you approached myself and the officer in charge and you 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.160 informed us that you had received a phone call from 0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:00.400 a lady called Kayleen about eight thirty yesterday morning? Is 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:01.000 that correct? 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:01.880 Yes? 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.400 And could you tell the court what Kayleen told you? 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.000 She told me She rang up asking to speak to Christel. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.040 I told her that Christel wasn't here. She asked when 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.680 I would be seeing her. I told her this week. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.120 She then told me she had something to give her 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.760 that it was photos of her mother and father. I 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.880 then asked her which father. She said her real father 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.080 Mark Davis. She then started to tell me about the 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.440 night Cristal was conceived. She went into detail about that, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.200 and pretty much after that, she told me that she 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.400 knew a lady called Joanne Guthrie or Joanne had married 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.279 a man called Craig Guthrie, and that Joanne knows that 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.920 Bromwin is living out Nimbenweh. And then this Kaylen told 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.640 me that she lives out Nimbenweh, has never seen her, 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.520 but Joanne is confident that she is out in Nimbenweh. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.280 And that's all I know. That's what I wrote down. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.279 And you received this phone call at your home address, 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:55.239 Is that correct? 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:55.960 Yep? 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:57.240 Eight thirty yesterday morning? 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.120 And I think you made some notes when you arrived 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.200 at the courthouse about that conversation. Is that right? 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.400 I wrote it down as she was telling me. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:08.159 Do you have those notes here? 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.320 Jodie said yes, and she produced the notes that she 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.200 had written on a piece of paper during her phone 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:16.640 call with Kayleen. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.279 In relation to the identity of Joanne. You've made some 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.560 notes on this piece of paper that says that Joanne 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.480 says she's out nimb and wet they know. And then 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.480 later it says Joanne lives in Sydney. Would you agree 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.400 that there is no reference to the surname of Joanne 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:35.240 on this document? 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.080 Well, she told me she was married to Mark Guthrie's brother, 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.159 so I assume that's Craig Guthrie. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.680 Well it's true, isn't it, ma'am, that you told us 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.760 you didn't know the surname of Joanne. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:47.960 I might have said I didn't know, but I just 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.480 assumed all along that it was Craig Guthrie's wife. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.159 Well, do you agree that the officer in charge and 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.280 I were asking you questions along the lines of do 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.960 you know Kaylen's surname? Do you know where Kaylen lives? 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.200 Her phone number? And things like that. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.960 Yeah, I said no to that because I didn't. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.400 You said no to each of these things, yep. And 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.440 then we asked you questions along the lines of do 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.000 you know who this jo Anne person is? And you 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.640 also said that you don't know who she is. You 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:18.800 don't know her surname. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.640 No, I don't know who she is. I don't know 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.440 Kayleen either. Never heard of them until yesterday. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.120 Well, a moment ago, ma'am, you gave evidence that it 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.000 was Joanne Garthrie that had allegedly spoken to Kayleen about 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:33.160 seeing the missing person. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.919 John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, stood and defended his client's daughter. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.640 I think, to be fair to the witness, the witness said, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.520 she assumed it was she's making the difference between knowledge 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.159 and assumption. I think is the point, ma'am. 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.479 When was it that you made that assumption after I 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.440 got the phone call? It was certainly before you spoke 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.840 to the officer in charge and I yesterday, wasn't it yep? 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.920 Is there any reason why you didn't indicate to us 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.839 that it was a Joanne, possibly Joanne Garthrie, that was 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.640 being spoken about by Kaylen. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.280 Jody deflected the question. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.600 I'm just relaying what was told to me yesterday morning 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.520 to the best of how it was told to me. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.000 Certainly you agree that when the officer in charge and 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.160 I inquired of you the surname of Joanne, you couldn't 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.240 indicate to us what Joanne's surname was, could you? 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:26.360 No? 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.960 In actual fact, I said that I asked this Kayleen 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.600 if she'd been if she had spoken to the police, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.200 and she said she had and she'd told the police this, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.560 And that was when we said to Glenn Taylor that 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.400 somewhere in the brief would be Kaylene's last name so 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:40.720 he could find who she was. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:41.840 Ma'am. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.920 I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I'm simply 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.720 trying to focus our attention on what you told us 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.320 yesterday at eleven fifteen. And would you agree that you 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.880 didn't know Joanne's surname or you certainly didn't tell us 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.400 that you had any idea of Joanne's surname yesterday? Did you? 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:58.280 Well? 0:07:58.280 --> 0:07:59.800 I only knew what was written on that. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:05.160 If it's written on that, matt Fordham changed direction, ma'am. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.800 Isn't it the case that since yesterday you've received a 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.720 letter in the mail? Is that correct? 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:11.360 Yes? This morning? 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.400 Whereabouts? Did you receive that letter at my house? And 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.120 was it in the letter box at your house? 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:18.880 Yep? 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.680 Do you know where it was delivered by post or? 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:23.960 I saw the postman deliver it and my daughter got 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:25.520 it out of the letter box and brought. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:25.800 It into me. 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:27.600 Who was the letter from? 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.120 From Kayleen Jones to Crystal? 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:32.560 Do you have the letter here today? 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:33.480 Yep? 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:35.680 Have you opened this letter? 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:36.520 Yes? 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.280 Would you agree that it's been re sealed? 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.080 I just yep, I pushed it back down. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:43.839 What's inside the letter? 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:45.720 Photos for Crystal? 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.560 Is Crystal here? Do you have any objection if I 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:50.320 open the letter? 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:51.439 Ma'am? 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.959 Are you able to indicate to the court what's the firstly, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:56.920 what's the relevance of the photographs here? 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.000 There photos of her father and her mother and photo 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.560 as a Bronlin on her own, photos of Bronlin with 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:03.320 Crystal together. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.120 There's also a note contained in the letter. Have you 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.040 read the note briefly? 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:14.640 But it is an odd admission from Jody. Her stepsister 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.840 Cristel was sitting in the courtroom that morning. The envelope 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.760 and the letter from Kayleen were specifically addressed to Crystal. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.080 According to Jody, she already knew from talking to Kayleen 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.880 the previous morning that the letter was intended for Crystal 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:37.360 and it contained photographs of Brommin and Crystal's father, Mark Davis. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.000 Jody could have easily handed Crystal the envelope before court 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:47.360 began for Crystal to open, but Crystal didn't. Jody opened it. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.360 Matt Fordham did not press Jody about why. 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.640 Perhaps your worship I might leed some evidence from Kaylene 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.319 Jones about the contents of this note if it's appropriate, 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.439 I have no further questions of this witness at this time. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.840 Sitting in the courtroom was the letters sender Kayleen Jones. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.840 She had been asked by Glenn Taylor the previous evening 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.440 to come to court and explain the phone call that 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.640 she'd had with Jody. Kayleen knew her old friend Bromwin 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.839 much better than most. They grew up together as teenagers 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.520 and best friends in Sydney's Sutherlandshire, and they had shared 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:29.120 formative memories as young adults. Together they experienced some of 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.520 the highs and lows of navigating life as young mothers 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:37.560 with small children. Kayleen moved away and coincidentally she now 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.240 lived near Nimben, and her appearance at the inquest was brief. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.280 She was asked just eleven questions by Matt Fordham. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.760 Could you tell the court what you told Jody? 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.040 I asked her, if Kristel was there, that I had 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.080 some photos put away for Crystal and I was waiting 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.000 until she was old enough to receive them, which is 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.080 why I hadn't contacted her earlier in the Northern Star 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.520 on Saturday. The inquest was on this week, so I 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.840 presumed that Crystal would be around for that. 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.760 The police officer asked Kayleen if she had made any 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.560 reference to a lady named Joanne in her phone conversation 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.200 with Jody. Yes. 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.319 I asked Jody a couple of questions about what they 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.040 thought may have happened to Bromwin and whether there was 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:27.480 any sightings of her. She said that one of Bromman's friends, Diane, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.600 who I remember from years ago, had possibly seen her. 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.160 I told Jody I got a phone call years ago 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.160 from Joanne saying Bromwin was supposedly in the Nimben area. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.840 I've lived around Nimben for eleven years and said that 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.319 if she was around there, I would have seen her, 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.920 and I hadn't seen her. I did see Nimbuen police. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.680 Neville Plush was the sergeant at the time and Kevin 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.360 Gillemier was the scenic constable, and I told them if 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.400 Bromwin was around the Nimben area that I would have 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.680 seen her in that time, and I knew she wasn't there. 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:07.400 Basically, there is a significant difference here between Jody and 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.880 Kayleen's recollections of the phone call. Jody gave evidence a 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.800 short time earlier that Kayleen had said her friend, Joanne 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.960 knows that Bromwin is living out nimben Weh, and according 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.840 to Jody, Kayleen said that she lives out nimben Weh 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.960 and has never seen Bromwin herself, but that Joanne is 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.920 confident that Bromwin is there. It all amounted to a 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:38.360 very definite impression. Matt Fordham didn't press this discrepancy. Instead, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.400 he turned to another matter that clearly aroused his suspicion. 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.320 He asked, did you indicate to Jody what Joanne's surname was? 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.640 Kayleen replied that she'd told Jody that Joanne had married 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:57.840 a man named Craig Guthrie, and Craig's brother is Mark Guthrie, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.320 Bromwin's former partner. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.360 Ma'am the community at Nimben, Is it the case that 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.200 if someone was living at Nimben that you would expect 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.280 to see them at some stage through your life? 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.520 Living at Nimben, definitely, you can know hundreds of people 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.559 out there to say hello to. You don't know everyone personally, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.320 but bronwhen I've known since I was a teenager. I've 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.520 known her for years, and if she was around anywhere 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.240 and I'd caught sight of her, I would know it 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.760 was her. I did ask for the address. I looked 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.720 up the Windfields in the phone book because I knew 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.520 they lived at Lennox Head, and I just asked if 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.000 I could send the photos over to Crystal. Jodie said 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.319 she'd make sure Crystal got them. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.560 Ma'am, is it in your view possible that bron and 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.480 Winfield could be living at Nimben and not have met 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.679 your attention over the years. No, and you certainly haven't 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.120 been living as a recluse or No, ma'am. The letter 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.760 that you've sent to Crystal, it basically encloses a number 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.679 of photographs and wishes t Cristal all the best, and 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.960 it indicates that you have knowledge of Bronwin when she 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.480 was younger. Yeah, there's no suggestion in your correspondence to 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.120 Crystal that Bronwin has been alive since sixteen May ninety three. No. 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.920 During the first season of the Bromwyn podcast series, I 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:23.400 received an email from Kayleen Jones. She reached out to 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:28.800 me unprompted, well before we began producing this episode. She 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.040 said she had been following the podcast closely, and she 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.760 attached a sixteen page letter to her email with a 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.960 one word title Bromwin. Kayleen had a lot to say 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.400 about Bromwyn, and she had new revelations about the phone 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.200 call she had with Jody on the first morning of 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.800 the inquest in two thousand and two. She has agreed 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:51.720 to read out parts of her letter. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.200 Jody said the inquest was to paint her father black 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.240 and that Bronwyn had just walked out on them. I said, well, 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.080 where is she then? And Jody mentioned someone named Diane 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.680 allegedly citing Bromwin at Cronala since her disappearance. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.720 I mentioned that Bromwin's. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:17.520 And my friend Joanne Guthrie contacted me years beforehand, saying 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.640 that John supposedly said that Bromwin was in Nimben, which 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.840 I knew was untrue because if anyone would recognize her. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:26.600 I would. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.480 In her letter, Kaylene mentioned some important details that were 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.120 not part of the evidence in two thousand and two. 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.400 The first is that she remembered telling Jody in the 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.880 phone call that it was Jody's father John, who first 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:47.440 suggested Bromwin could be at Nimben. Kayleen explained that she 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.800 didn't tell the inquest this important detail because she was 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.200 still surprised at having to give evidence at short notice. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.840 She said she felt she did not have an opportunity 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.400 to expand on her answers. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.520 I drove to liz More Coroner's Court and was completely 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.840 baffled about why I was there, and everyone started explaining 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.760 what Jody had said about me. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:14.840 The day before, My colleague Isaac Ayan spoke to Kayleen 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.200 at her home just outside Nimben and Kayleen shared more 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.520 details about her phone call with Jody in two thousand 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:22.960 and two. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:25.560 I remember that phone conversation. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.040 She actually did say Crystal's here, but not here right now, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.160 which is why she couldn't put her on the phone. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.560 And then I said that I'd had photos of Bromwin, 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:41.960 Crystal's dad and Crystal and she's gone, which dad, and 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:47.000 I said, Mark Davis, so you could hear her voice. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.960 She had contempt in her voice. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:54.640 What I said was that Joanne had heard years ago 0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.720 through Megan Bromman's cousin, that John had alleged that Bromwin 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.200 was out Nimben way, and I said, well, she's definitely 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.520 not up here, because if anyone's going to recognize. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:07.720 Her, I would. 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.720 But in that phone call, you also made it clear 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.160 that neither you nor Joanne believed. 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.840 They werenat absolutely neither of us believed that rumor. I 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.600 then went on to say to Jody that I did 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:27.000 see the missing person segment on the TV program Crime Watch, 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.679 Missing Persons Australia, whatever show it was, and that was 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.720 the second time that I'd heard that allegedly she was 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.080 in the Nimben area, which was why I then went 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.959 to Nimbum Police the following day to tell them Bromhen 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.800 wasn't around Nimben, to which the police laughed at me 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.680 and said, you can't report a non sighting of a person. 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.320 I've spoken to Joanne Guthrie and she confirmed with me 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.840 that she remembered hearing something about Bromwin supposed being out 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.240 Nimben Way. Here's a snippet from my conversation with Joanne Guthrie. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.879 You're going to hear more from her and from Kayleen 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.359 in a later episode and their observations of John. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.120 My recollection, I mean, we're going back a long time now, 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.760 was that Megan contacted myself. 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.280 And said that she had heard that Bromwin was living 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:27.119 out in Nimbhen Way. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.280 And it's possible that Megan heard it from John Winfield. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.640 Kayleen has a view about Jody's actions at the two 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:41.240 thousand and two in Quest, insofar as their phone calls concerned. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:46.119 Completely twisted and distorted it to make it what she 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.200 wanted it to be. When I first rang up, she said, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.119 this whole inquest. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.439 Is to paint my father black. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.840 She was already on the defensive, and then gone to 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:05.000 the inquest and completely change my words and said, there. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.840 Is an alleged sighting out at Nimben. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.560 And Jody has taken parts of our phone conversation and 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.520 turned it into what she wanted it to be. 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:21.959 At the inquest, trying to conjure up a potential sighting 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.560 of Bromlin, Yes, which would have put in doubt the 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.800 theory that John was her killer. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.520 Yes, It's possible that Jody was simply mistaken in her 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:37.199 recollection of what Kayleen told her. It is also possible that, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.679 in her excitement at hearing of a possible rumor of 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:45.800 Bromwin being alive, Jody glossed over key qualifying details from 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:51.399 Kayleen and instead wrote down a very definitive statement, let 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:56.240 me repeat what those words were. Joanne says, she's out 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:01.320 nimb and way. They know a little more about this. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.040 In a later episode, when Jody gives evidence again on 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.480 day four of the inquest. On that day, matt Fordham 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.760 asked more penetrating questions about Jody's actions during and after 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:19.120 the phone call with Kayleen. He appeared to be very suspicious. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.840 The second day of the inquest continued with evidence of 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.000 another possible sighting of Bromwin. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.760 Ma'am, can you please tell us your full name? 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.359 Diane Linda McMillan. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.960 Diane McMillan knew Bromwin well. They met at Sylvania Price 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.080 School in Sydney, Sutherlandshire when they were about ten years old, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.760 and they stayed in touch throughout the years. Diane met 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.439 Bromwin's boyfriends, including Mark Guthrie and Mark Davis, and Diane 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:19.040 recalled Crystal's birth and the controversy over her true parentage. Diane, 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:23.920 of course met John Winfield. Matt Fordham walked Diane through 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.760 what she had told police in her nineteen ninety eight statement. 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.000 He asked Diane about a phone call in early nineteen 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:33.560 ninety three with Bromwin. 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.560 I was at home and the phone rang and I 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.680 answered it and it was Bromwin and I hadn't heard 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.280 from her for a while. I remember her telling me 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.520 that John had gone all weird and strange, and I 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.480 just said, look, I'm in Sydney, you're in Ballina. You 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.880 should get help, and you know, just get out of there, Bromwin. 0:21:58.600 --> 0:21:59.880 That's what I said to her. 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.440 Did she indicate anything specifically, any specific event that prompted 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:05.880 her to ring you? 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:10.000 No, she just I vaguely remember her telling me that 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.160 he'd become very possessive. 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.600 Did she sound to you as though she felt safe 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:16.200 in that house? 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:16.960 No? 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.000 And did she indicate to you any plans for the future. 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:22.320 No. 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:22.480 No. 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.520 I've known Bromwin for a very long time, and I 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:30.600 knew she absolutely adored her children, and there's just no 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.359 way she would have left them for this period of time. 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.359 Matt Fordham asked Diane to recount another phone conversation, one 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.600 that she'd had with John in mid nineteen ninety three, 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.600 a few weeks after Bromwin had disappeared. 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.199 He just said to me, have you seen Bromwin? And 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.400 I said no. I said, what have you done with her? 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.880 Because I was very suspicious of him because of what 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:57.160 Bromwin had said. 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:57.880 To me on the phone. 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:00.840 And what was mister Winfield's reaction to that comment? 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.480 Oh? How dare you speak to me like that? 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.160 You know, he just went right off as bean and 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.840 I got quite frightened of him at that stage. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.480 Did you have any subsequent phone calls to mister Winfield 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.639 about this issue afterwards? Yes? 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:18.720 No. 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:24.280 In the police investigation and inquest, there were three purported 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:29.000 sightings of Bromwin in the years following her disappearance. The 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.000 Nimben rumor was an obvious red herring. At the inquest, 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.280 there was another purported sighting of Bromwin by a woman 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:43.840 named Jane Johnston. Jane's husband, Andrew and John were first cousins. 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.520 Jane got to know Bromwyn well. He's a reminder from 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:52.800 episode four of what Jane said in her nineteen ninety 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:53.960 eight police statement. 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.560