1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Brown contains course

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,840
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

3
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,239
Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian.

4
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,440
Speaker 2: Your Worship. An issue arose yesterday morning in relation to

5
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: a possible sighting of the missing person. On that issue,

6
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 2: i'd seek to call Jody Maine when.

7
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: The courtroom reopened for the second day of the inquest.

8
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't the prime suspect, John Winfield, but he's daughter Jody,

9
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 1: who was ushered forward to give evidence on an important

10
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 1: matter that had come up the day before.

11
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,480
Speaker 2: And ma'am, do you understand? I just want to ask

12
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,119
Speaker 2: you some very brief questions about a telephone call that

13
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 2: you received yesterday morning, and at a later stage in

14
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 2: this inquest I will be asking you some further questions

15
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:21,400
Speaker 2: about this matter.

16
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: Yep, let's pause to recap. Jody had received a phone

17
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 1: call on the previous day from a woman named Kayleen Jones.

18
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: According to Jody, Kayleen had called the Winfield family home

19
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,320
Speaker 1: in Lennox Head about eight thirty am asking to speak

20
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 1: to Crystal Becurse. The caller had some photographs to share

21
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 1: with Crystal of Bromwin and Crystal's biological father, Mark Davis.

22
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 1: Kayleen then purportedly went into detail about the night that

23
00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: Crystal was conceived, and then, according to Jody, Kayleen shared

24
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: with Jody a startling piece of information. Bromwin had been

25
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: seen alive. According to Jody, Kayleen's friend Joanne was confident

26
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 1: that she had seen Bromwin out Nimbu and Weh, referencing

27
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: the small hippie town less than an hour from where

28
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: the court sat in Lismore. The stunning revelation caused to

29
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: stir in the courtroom. On day one, police officers Matt

30
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: Fordham and Glen Taylor set about checking the rumor as

31
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 1: a matter of priority. As you heard in the previous episode,

32
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: Glen Taylor told the inquest that he had spoken to

33
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: Joanne Guthrie and she had denied telling Kayleen that Bromwin

34
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: was out Nimbenweh. Joanne had said she had no evidence

35
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 1: at all of this being true. It was clear by

36
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: the morning of day two that the possibility of Bromwin

37
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 1: being alive and living somewhere near Nimbeni was unfounded. But

38
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,919
Speaker 1: now Matt Fordham, the police officer assisting the coroner, had

39
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 1: questions for Jody. He was clearly skeptical about some details

40
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 1: that Jody had told him the previous day about the

41
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,120
Speaker 1: phone call with Kayleen. He also had questions about what

42
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 1: Jody didn't tell him, Questions like why didn't Jody tell

43
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,640
Speaker 1: him Kayleen or Joanne surnames? If she didn't know, why

44
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: hadn't she asked Kayleen? If Jody really believed that Bromwin

45
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 1: had been seen out nimb and way as she put it,

46
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 1: then surely she would have been at pains to get

47
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: those details from Kayleen. Why had she told only half

48
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 1: the story? Ma'am?

49
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 2: Is it the case that yesterday at about eleven fifteen

50
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 2: you approached myself and the officer in charge and you

51
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,160
Speaker 2: informed us that you had received a phone call from

52
00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 2: a lady called Kayleen about eight thirty yesterday morning? Is

53
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 2: that correct?

54
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 3: Yes?

55
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 2: And could you tell the court what Kayleen told you?

56
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 4: She told me She rang up asking to speak to Christel.

57
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 4: I told her that Christel wasn't here. She asked when

58
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 4: I would be seeing her. I told her this week.

59
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 4: She then told me she had something to give her

60
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 4: that it was photos of her mother and father. I

61
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 4: then asked her which father. She said her real father

62
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 4: Mark Davis. She then started to tell me about the

63
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 4: night Cristal was conceived. She went into detail about that,

64
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 4: and pretty much after that, she told me that she

65
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 4: knew a lady called Joanne Guthrie or Joanne had married

66
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,279
Speaker 4: a man called Craig Guthrie, and that Joanne knows that

67
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 4: Bromwin is living out Nimbenweh. And then this Kaylen told

68
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 4: me that she lives out Nimbenweh, has never seen her,

69
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 4: but Joanne is confident that she is out in Nimbenweh.

70
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,280
Speaker 4: And that's all I know. That's what I wrote down.

71
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,279
Speaker 2: And you received this phone call at your home address,

72
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,239
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

73
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 5: Yep?

74
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 3: Eight thirty yesterday morning?

75
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 2: And I think you made some notes when you arrived

76
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 2: at the courthouse about that conversation. Is that right?

77
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 3: I wrote it down as she was telling me.

78
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,159
Speaker 2: Do you have those notes here?

79
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 1: Jodie said yes, and she produced the notes that she

80
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: had written on a piece of paper during her phone

81
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 1: call with Kayleen.

82
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,279
Speaker 2: In relation to the identity of Joanne. You've made some

83
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 2: notes on this piece of paper that says that Joanne

84
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 2: says she's out nimb and wet they know. And then

85
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 2: later it says Joanne lives in Sydney. Would you agree

86
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: that there is no reference to the surname of Joanne

87
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 2: on this document?

88
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 4: Well, she told me she was married to Mark Guthrie's brother,

89
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 4: so I assume that's Craig Guthrie.

90
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 2: Well it's true, isn't it, ma'am, that you told us

91
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 2: you didn't know the surname of Joanne.

92
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 4: I might have said I didn't know, but I just

93
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 4: assumed all along that it was Craig Guthrie's wife.

94
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 2: Well, do you agree that the officer in charge and

95
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,280
Speaker 2: I were asking you questions along the lines of do

96
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 2: you know Kaylen's surname? Do you know where Kaylen lives?

97
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 2: Her phone number? And things like that.

98
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said no to that because I didn't.

99
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,400
Speaker 2: You said no to each of these things, yep. And

100
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 2: then we asked you questions along the lines of do

101
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 2: you know who this jo Anne person is? And you

102
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 2: also said that you don't know who she is. You

103
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 2: don't know her surname.

104
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 4: No, I don't know who she is. I don't know

105
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 4: Kayleen either. Never heard of them until yesterday.

106
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: Well, a moment ago, ma'am, you gave evidence that it

107
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 2: was Joanne Garthrie that had allegedly spoken to Kayleen about

108
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,160
Speaker 2: seeing the missing person.

109
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, stood and defended his client's daughter.

110
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 6: I think, to be fair to the witness, the witness said,

111
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 6: she assumed it was she's making the difference between knowledge

112
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,159
Speaker 6: and assumption. I think is the point, ma'am.

113
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,479
Speaker 2: When was it that you made that assumption after I

114
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 2: got the phone call? It was certainly before you spoke

115
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 2: to the officer in charge and I yesterday, wasn't it yep?

116
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 2: Is there any reason why you didn't indicate to us

117
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,839
Speaker 2: that it was a Joanne, possibly Joanne Garthrie, that was

118
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 2: being spoken about by Kaylen.

119
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 1: Jody deflected the question.

120
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 4: I'm just relaying what was told to me yesterday morning

121
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 4: to the best of how it was told to me.

122
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 2: Certainly you agree that when the officer in charge and

123
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 2: I inquired of you the surname of Joanne, you couldn't

124
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 2: indicate to us what Joanne's surname was, could you?

125
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 5: No?

126
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 4: In actual fact, I said that I asked this Kayleen

127
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 4: if she'd been if she had spoken to the police,

128
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 4: and she said she had and she'd told the police this,

129
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 4: And that was when we said to Glenn Taylor that

130
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 4: somewhere in the brief would be Kaylene's last name so

131
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 4: he could find who she was.

132
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 1: Ma'am.

133
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I'm simply

134
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: trying to focus our attention on what you told us

135
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,320
Speaker 2: yesterday at eleven fifteen. And would you agree that you

136
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 2: didn't know Joanne's surname or you certainly didn't tell us

137
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 2: that you had any idea of Joanne's surname yesterday? Did you?

138
00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 6: Well?

139
00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 3: I only knew what was written on that.

140
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 2: If it's written on that, matt Fordham changed direction, ma'am.

141
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 2: Isn't it the case that since yesterday you've received a

142
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 2: letter in the mail? Is that correct?

143
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 3: Yes? This morning?

144
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 2: Whereabouts? Did you receive that letter at my house? And

145
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 2: was it in the letter box at your house?

146
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 5: Yep?

147
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 2: Do you know where it was delivered by post or?

148
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,960
Speaker 4: I saw the postman deliver it and my daughter got

149
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 4: it out of the letter box and brought.

150
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 3: It into me.

151
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 2: Who was the letter from?

152
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 3: From Kayleen Jones to Crystal?

153
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,560
Speaker 2: Do you have the letter here today?

154
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 3: Yep?

155
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 2: Have you opened this letter?

156
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 3: Yes?

157
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 2: Would you agree that it's been re sealed?

158
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,080
Speaker 3: I just yep, I pushed it back down.

159
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 2: What's inside the letter?

160
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 3: Photos for Crystal?

161
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 2: Is Crystal here? Do you have any objection if I

162
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 2: open the letter?

163
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:51,439
Speaker 6: Ma'am?

164
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,959
Speaker 2: Are you able to indicate to the court what's the firstly,

165
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 2: what's the relevance of the photographs here?

166
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 4: There photos of her father and her mother and photo

167
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 4: as a Bronlin on her own, photos of Bronlin with

168
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 4: Crystal together.

169
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 2: There's also a note contained in the letter. Have you

170
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 2: read the note briefly?

171
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,640
Speaker 1: But it is an odd admission from Jody. Her stepsister

172
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 1: Cristel was sitting in the courtroom that morning. The envelope

173
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,760
Speaker 1: and the letter from Kayleen were specifically addressed to Crystal.

174
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: According to Jody, she already knew from talking to Kayleen

175
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 1: the previous morning that the letter was intended for Crystal

176
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: and it contained photographs of Brommin and Crystal's father, Mark Davis.

177
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000
Speaker 1: Jody could have easily handed Crystal the envelope before court

178
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 1: began for Crystal to open, but Crystal didn't. Jody opened it.

179
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham did not press Jody about why.

180
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 2: Perhaps your worship I might leed some evidence from Kaylene

181
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,319
Speaker 2: Jones about the contents of this note if it's appropriate,

182
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,439
Speaker 2: I have no further questions of this witness at this time.

183
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 1: Sitting in the courtroom was the letters sender Kayleen Jones.

184
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: She had been asked by Glenn Taylor the previous evening

185
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 1: to come to court and explain the phone call that

186
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 1: she'd had with Jody. Kayleen knew her old friend Bromwin

187
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,839
Speaker 1: much better than most. They grew up together as teenagers

188
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 1: and best friends in Sydney's Sutherlandshire, and they had shared

189
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 1: formative memories as young adults. Together they experienced some of

190
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: the highs and lows of navigating life as young mothers

191
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 1: with small children. Kayleen moved away and coincidentally she now

192
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 1: lived near Nimben, and her appearance at the inquest was brief.

193
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: She was asked just eleven questions by Matt Fordham.

194
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 2: Could you tell the court what you told Jody?

195
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 7: I asked her, if Kristel was there, that I had

196
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 7: some photos put away for Crystal and I was waiting

197
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,000
Speaker 7: until she was old enough to receive them, which is

198
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,080
Speaker 7: why I hadn't contacted her earlier in the Northern Star

199
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 7: on Saturday. The inquest was on this week, so I

200
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,840
Speaker 7: presumed that Crystal would be around for that.

201
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 1: The police officer asked Kayleen if she had made any

202
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,560
Speaker 1: reference to a lady named Joanne in her phone conversation

203
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 1: with Jody. Yes.

204
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,319
Speaker 7: I asked Jody a couple of questions about what they

205
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 7: thought may have happened to Bromwin and whether there was

206
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 7: any sightings of her. She said that one of Bromman's friends, Diane,

207
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 7: who I remember from years ago, had possibly seen her.

208
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 7: I told Jody I got a phone call years ago

209
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 7: from Joanne saying Bromwin was supposedly in the Nimben area.

210
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 7: I've lived around Nimben for eleven years and said that

211
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,319
Speaker 7: if she was around there, I would have seen her,

212
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 7: and I hadn't seen her. I did see Nimbuen police.

213
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,680
Speaker 7: Neville Plush was the sergeant at the time and Kevin

214
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 7: Gillemier was the scenic constable, and I told them if

215
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 7: Bromwin was around the Nimben area that I would have

216
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,680
Speaker 7: seen her in that time, and I knew she wasn't there.

217
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: Basically, there is a significant difference here between Jody and

218
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 1: Kayleen's recollections of the phone call. Jody gave evidence a

219
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 1: short time earlier that Kayleen had said her friend, Joanne

220
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 1: knows that Bromwin is living out nimben Weh, and according

221
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,840
Speaker 1: to Jody, Kayleen said that she lives out nimben Weh

222
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 1: and has never seen Bromwin herself, but that Joanne is

223
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: confident that Bromwin is there. It all amounted to a

224
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: very definite impression. Matt Fordham didn't press this discrepancy. Instead,

225
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,400
Speaker 1: he turned to another matter that clearly aroused his suspicion.

226
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 2: He asked, did you indicate to Jody what Joanne's surname was?

227
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: Kayleen replied that she'd told Jody that Joanne had married

228
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 1: a man named Craig Guthrie, and Craig's brother is Mark Guthrie,

229
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: Bromwin's former partner.

230
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 2: Ma'am the community at Nimben, Is it the case that

231
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: if someone was living at Nimben that you would expect

232
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 2: to see them at some stage through your life?

233
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 7: Living at Nimben, definitely, you can know hundreds of people

234
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,559
Speaker 7: out there to say hello to. You don't know everyone personally,

235
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 7: but bronwhen I've known since I was a teenager. I've

236
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 7: known her for years, and if she was around anywhere

237
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 7: and I'd caught sight of her, I would know it

238
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,760
Speaker 7: was her. I did ask for the address. I looked

239
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 7: up the Windfields in the phone book because I knew

240
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 7: they lived at Lennox Head, and I just asked if

241
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 7: I could send the photos over to Crystal. Jodie said

242
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,319
Speaker 7: she'd make sure Crystal got them.

243
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 2: Ma'am, is it in your view possible that bron and

244
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 2: Winfield could be living at Nimben and not have met

245
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,679
Speaker 2: your attention over the years. No, and you certainly haven't

246
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 2: been living as a recluse or No, ma'am. The letter

247
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 2: that you've sent to Crystal, it basically encloses a number

248
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,679
Speaker 2: of photographs and wishes t Cristal all the best, and

249
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 2: it indicates that you have knowledge of Bronwin when she

250
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 2: was younger. Yeah, there's no suggestion in your correspondence to

251
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 2: Crystal that Bronwin has been alive since sixteen May ninety three. No.

252
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 1: During the first season of the Bromwyn podcast series, I

253
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 1: received an email from Kayleen Jones. She reached out to

254
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: me unprompted, well before we began producing this episode. She

255
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 1: said she had been following the podcast closely, and she

256
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 1: attached a sixteen page letter to her email with a

257
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 1: one word title Bromwin. Kayleen had a lot to say

258
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 1: about Bromwyn, and she had new revelations about the phone

259
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: call she had with Jody on the first morning of

260
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 1: the inquest in two thousand and two. She has agreed

261
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 1: to read out parts of her letter.

262
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 7: Jody said the inquest was to paint her father black

263
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 7: and that Bronwyn had just walked out on them. I said, well,

264
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 7: where is she then? And Jody mentioned someone named Diane

265
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 7: allegedly citing Bromwin at Cronala since her disappearance.

266
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 5: I mentioned that Bromwin's.

267
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,520
Speaker 7: And my friend Joanne Guthrie contacted me years beforehand, saying

268
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 7: that John supposedly said that Bromwin was in Nimben, which

269
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 7: I knew was untrue because if anyone would recognize her.

270
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 5: I would.

271
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 1: In her letter, Kaylene mentioned some important details that were

272
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 1: not part of the evidence in two thousand and two.

273
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: The first is that she remembered telling Jody in the

274
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: phone call that it was Jody's father John, who first

275
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: suggested Bromwin could be at Nimben. Kayleen explained that she

276
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: didn't tell the inquest this important detail because she was

277
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 1: still surprised at having to give evidence at short notice.

278
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: She said she felt she did not have an opportunity

279
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: to expand on her answers.

280
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,520
Speaker 7: I drove to liz More Coroner's Court and was completely

281
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 7: baffled about why I was there, and everyone started explaining

282
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 7: what Jody had said about me.

283
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: The day before, My colleague Isaac Ayan spoke to Kayleen

284
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: at her home just outside Nimben and Kayleen shared more

285
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: details about her phone call with Jody in two thousand

286
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: and two.

287
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 5: I remember that phone conversation.

288
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 7: She actually did say Crystal's here, but not here right now,

289
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,160
Speaker 7: which is why she couldn't put her on the phone.

290
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 7: And then I said that I'd had photos of Bromwin,

291
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 7: Crystal's dad and Crystal and she's gone, which dad, and

292
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 7: I said, Mark Davis, so you could hear her voice.

293
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 6: She had contempt in her voice.

294
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 7: What I said was that Joanne had heard years ago

295
00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 7: through Megan Bromman's cousin, that John had alleged that Bromwin

296
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 7: was out Nimben way, and I said, well, she's definitely

297
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 7: not up here, because if anyone's going to recognize.

298
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 1: Her, I would.

299
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 8: But in that phone call, you also made it clear

300
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 8: that neither you nor Joanne believed.

301
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 7: They werenat absolutely neither of us believed that rumor. I

302
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 7: then went on to say to Jody that I did

303
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 7: see the missing person segment on the TV program Crime Watch,

304
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,679
Speaker 7: Missing Persons Australia, whatever show it was, and that was

305
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 7: the second time that I'd heard that allegedly she was

306
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 7: in the Nimben area, which was why I then went

307
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,959
Speaker 7: to Nimbum Police the following day to tell them Bromhen

308
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 7: wasn't around Nimben, to which the police laughed at me

309
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 7: and said, you can't report a non sighting of a person.

310
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 1: I've spoken to Joanne Guthrie and she confirmed with me

311
00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: that she remembered hearing something about Bromwin supposed being out

312
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: Nimben Way. Here's a snippet from my conversation with Joanne Guthrie.

313
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,879
Speaker 1: You're going to hear more from her and from Kayleen

314
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 1: in a later episode and their observations of John.

315
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,120
Speaker 7: My recollection, I mean, we're going back a long time now,

316
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 7: was that Megan contacted myself.

317
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 8: And said that she had heard that Bromwin was living

318
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 8: out in Nimbhen Way.

319
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 1: And it's possible that Megan heard it from John Winfield.

320
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,640
Speaker 1: Kayleen has a view about Jody's actions at the two

321
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 1: thousand and two in Quest, insofar as their phone calls concerned.

322
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 7: Completely twisted and distorted it to make it what she

323
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 7: wanted it to be. When I first rang up, she said,

324
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 7: this whole inquest.

325
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 5: Is to paint my father black.

326
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 7: She was already on the defensive, and then gone to

327
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 7: the inquest and completely change my words and said, there.

328
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 5: Is an alleged sighting out at Nimben.

329
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 7: And Jody has taken parts of our phone conversation and

330
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 7: turned it into what she wanted it to be.

331
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:21,959
Speaker 8: At the inquest, trying to conjure up a potential sighting

332
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 8: of Bromlin, Yes, which would have put in doubt the

333
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 8: theory that John was her killer.

334
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: Yes, It's possible that Jody was simply mistaken in her

335
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 1: recollection of what Kayleen told her. It is also possible that,

336
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 1: in her excitement at hearing of a possible rumor of

337
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: Bromwin being alive, Jody glossed over key qualifying details from

338
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: Kayleen and instead wrote down a very definitive statement, let

339
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 1: me repeat what those words were. Joanne says, she's out

340
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: nimb and way. They know a little more about this.

341
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: In a later episode, when Jody gives evidence again on

342
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: day four of the inquest. On that day, matt Fordham

343
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: asked more penetrating questions about Jody's actions during and after

344
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: the phone call with Kayleen. He appeared to be very suspicious.

345
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: The second day of the inquest continued with evidence of

346
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: another possible sighting of Bromwin.

347
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 2: Ma'am, can you please tell us your full name?

348
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 9: Diane Linda McMillan.

349
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: Diane McMillan knew Bromwin well. They met at Sylvania Price

350
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: School in Sydney, Sutherlandshire when they were about ten years old,

351
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: and they stayed in touch throughout the years. Diane met

352
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: Bromwin's boyfriends, including Mark Guthrie and Mark Davis, and Diane

353
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: recalled Crystal's birth and the controversy over her true parentage. Diane,

354
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: of course met John Winfield. Matt Fordham walked Diane through

355
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: what she had told police in her nineteen ninety eight statement.

356
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: He asked Diane about a phone call in early nineteen

357
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: ninety three with Bromwin.

358
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 10: I was at home and the phone rang and I

359
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 10: answered it and it was Bromwin and I hadn't heard

360
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 10: from her for a while. I remember her telling me

361
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 10: that John had gone all weird and strange, and I

362
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 10: just said, look, I'm in Sydney, you're in Ballina. You

363
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 10: should get help, and you know, just get out of there, Bromwin.

364
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 9: That's what I said to her.

365
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: Did she indicate anything specifically, any specific event that prompted

366
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: her to ring you?

367
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 10: No, she just I vaguely remember her telling me that

368
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 10: he'd become very possessive.

369
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: Did she sound to you as though she felt safe

370
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 2: in that house?

371
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 11: No?

372
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you any plans for the future.

373
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 9: No.

374
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 12: No.

375
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 10: I've known Bromwin for a very long time, and I

376
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 10: knew she absolutely adored her children, and there's just no

377
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 10: way she would have left them for this period of time.

378
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Diane to recount another phone conversation, one

379
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: that she'd had with John in mid nineteen ninety three,

380
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: a few weeks after Bromwin had disappeared.

381
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 10: He just said to me, have you seen Bromwin? And

382
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 10: I said no. I said, what have you done with her?

383
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 10: Because I was very suspicious of him because of what

384
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 10: Bromwin had said.

385
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 9: To me on the phone.

386
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: And what was mister Winfield's reaction to that comment?

387
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 9: Oh? How dare you speak to me like that?

388
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 10: You know, he just went right off as bean and

389
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 10: I got quite frightened of him at that stage.

390
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: Did you have any subsequent phone calls to mister Winfield

391
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: about this issue afterwards? Yes?

392
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 5: No.

393
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: In the police investigation and inquest, there were three purported

394
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: sightings of Bromwin in the years following her disappearance. The

395
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: Nimben rumor was an obvious red herring. At the inquest,

396
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: there was another purported sighting of Bromwin by a woman

397
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: named Jane Johnston. Jane's husband, Andrew and John were first cousins.

398
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: Jane got to know Bromwyn well. He's a reminder from

399
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: episode four of what Jane said in her nineteen ninety

400
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: eight police statement.

401
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 13: She would often state to me that she was scared

402
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 13: of John and worried that he would hit her, Although

403
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 13: she never ever told me that he did, and I'm

404
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 13: sure she would have if it had occurred, she did

405
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 13: inform me after Christmas that year he had backed her

406
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 13: up against the kitchen cabinets and raised his hand as

407
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 13: if to hit her, but then just walked away.

408
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: Another key part of Jane Johnston's nineteen ninety eight statement

409
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: to police was disclosed in episode six.

410
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 13: Shortly after returning home from overseas, Andrew and I went

411
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 13: on a picnic at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.

412
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 13: Peter is John's brother. While we were on the picnic,

413
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 13: Peter told us that Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior.

414
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 13: We didn't have much contact with John after that, and

415
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 13: I didn't discuss her disappearance with him because he obviously

416
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 13: didn't want to.

417
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: One day in nineteen ninety four, whilst shopping in the Shire,

418
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 1: Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.

419
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's

420
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she

421
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.

422
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: Jane Johnston was not called as a witness at the inquest.

423
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: There was another purported sighting of Bromwin in Kunella eighteen

424
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: months later. Diane McMillan believed that she had caught a

425
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: glimpse of her old friend Bromwin and apparently without any

426
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: worry of being seen. Here's Diane from her nineteen ninety

427
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: eight police statement.

428
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 10: I caught the side profile of this girl, and I

429
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 10: thought it was Bromin's standing there. I turned around as

430
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 10: I passed, But this girl must have walked off fairly quickly.

431
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 10: I'm not sure that it was in fact Bromwin, but

432
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 10: it looked like her.

433
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: Matt Forlham asked Diane about this.

434
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: You turned around as you passed this girl, But this

435
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 2: girl must have walked off fairly quickly, because you didn't

436
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 2: see her again after that.

437
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 10: No, no, I just turned my head around. I was driving,

438
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 10: concentrating on the road.

439
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: Of course, on the first look to your left, did

440
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 2: you recognize it as Bronwin?

441
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 5: Then?

442
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 9: I didn't see her face.

443
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 10: I only saw the side of her head, on the

444
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 10: back of her body. She was behind a car, and

445
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 10: it was a brief sighting, very brief, ma'am.

446
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: Do you believe it was Bronwin or that it could

447
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: have been Bronwyn Winfield that you saw in nineteen ninety five?

448
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 10: It could have been her, but I don't think it.

449
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 10: I didn't see her face, so I can't be sure.

450
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: Did you in nineteen ninety five, when you say you

451
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: caught a glimpse of someone who appeared to be Bronwen,

452
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: did you make any attempt to contact Bronwyn's family.

453
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 10: I was sort of thinking that she was missing, not

454
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 10: anything else that happened. So I actually rang John Winfield,

455
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 10: I think, and I told him that I think I'd

456
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 10: seen her in Cronulla.

457
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: The police officer raised a point about Bronwyn.

458
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: And given that you say you believe you saw someone

459
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 2: who looked like Bromwin in Cronulla, did it strike you

460
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: as strange that Bronwyin would not have contacted her family

461
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 2: if she was living in Cronulla.

462
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 10: Yes, I the whole thing has struck me as strange

463
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 10: because she wasn't a person that would just disappear.

464
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: You mentioned that the hair was a unique feature of

465
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: Bronwyin that struck you as being similar to her. But

466
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: is there any other unique feature, for example, the shape

467
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: of her nose, or the shape of an ear, or

468
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: some sort of mark on the face or anything like

469
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: that that could indicate to us as being a unique

470
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: identifier that the person you saw was Bronwin.

471
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 10: Her body, the long legs, in just the way her

472
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 10: figure was. It was just an outstanding figure. You never

473
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 10: forget it once you've seen it.

474
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: And when you saw this lady, was she standing still

475
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: or was she moving?

476
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 9: She was moving?

477
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: Do you remember what she was wearing?

478
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 9: No?

479
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: No, I don't, Given what you know about circumstances of

480
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: Bronwin's disappearance, did you go and search for her in

481
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: any of those shops?

482
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 9: No, I didn't.

483
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 10: I just thought she was gone, so how would I

484
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 10: be able to find her.

485
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, had some brief questions for Diane

486
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: about a phone conversation that she made to his client John.

487
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 6: The sighting was in mid nineteen ninety five. That was

488
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 6: some seven years ago, wasn't it.

489
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 9: Yes?

490
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 6: And at the time of the sighting your recollection of

491
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 6: events was a lot better than it is now, isn't it.

492
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 9: Yes?

493
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 6: The sighting back in nineteen ninety five struck you as

494
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 6: being struck you at the time as being so clearly

495
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 6: Bronwin that you rang John Winfield straight away. Didn't she Yes?

496
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 9: But I wasn't sure it was her, but it looked

497
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 9: like her.

498
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 6: And in the course of the conversation with John, you

499
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 6: in fact apologized to him for making the allegations that

500
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 6: you'd made to him in the last phone call with him,

501
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 6: didn't you?

502
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 9: I can't recall that.

503
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 6: Did you say something like, look, I'm sorry that I

504
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 6: suspected you before, but I've now seen Bronwin. I'm sorry,

505
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 6: I apologize something like that.

506
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 9: No, I don't think I would have said that, but.

507
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 6: Words to that effect. No, that was the gist of

508
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 6: the call, wasn't it that you had seen Bromwin and

509
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 6: you were ringing him to tell him that you'd made

510
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 6: that sighting.

511
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 10: Yes, at the time, I didn't know she was going

512
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 10: to be missing for this period of time.

513
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: Though Broman's former partner, Mark Davis, the father of Crystal,

514
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: went into the witness box next, Mark has since passed

515
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: away on Day one of the inquests. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett,

516
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: had suggested that Bromin's attempts to contact Mark Davis in

517
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three, shortly before her disappearance, could have

518
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: indicated Bromwin's desire to safeguard her eldest daughter while Bromwin

519
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: took off from the family forever, but that theory is

520
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: at odds with what Bromwin herself wrote. In a letter

521
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: to Mark Davis and his parents, Crystal's grandparents in early

522
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three. Bromwin wrote that she wanted Kristel's

523
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: biological father to be in his daughter's life, but that

524
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: she was not going to relinquish custody of Crystal to Mark.

525
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: Here's a brief reminder from episode ten of some of

526
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: what Romwin wrote to Mark Davis and his parents in

527
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: her letter in May nineteen ninety three.

528
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 11: Dear Edita, Alwen, Mark and family. I thought i'd drop

529
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 11: you a note since it costs so much for phone calls,

530
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 11: and with the girls at school, I have the time.

531
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 11: It's so long since we had some form of contact

532
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 11: that I don't know where to start. Crystal has grown

533
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 11: up into a lovely child, and I know you would

534
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 11: be proud to be her grandparents and Mark would love

535
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 11: her as well, but I'm not going to relinquish my custody.

536
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 11: I will always be open to your suggestions on schooling

537
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 11: and any other ideas you may have, and would welcome

538
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 11: Mark as a friend to confide in with any issues

539
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 11: that may arise, although the final decision will be mine,

540
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 11: because if there's one thing I am good at, it

541
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 11: as being a mother. I'm sure there is room for improvement,

542
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 11: but it's what I love best in life, something sadly

543
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 11: lacking in my teenage years.

544
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: Roman's brother Andy Reid told me in episode ten that

545
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: he believed Bromwin was looking to safeguard Crystal if anything

546
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: happened to her.

547
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 14: She was trying to ensure Crystal's well being if anything

548
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 14: ever went wrong. She already asked and my comments to

549
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 14: Michelle and May that if anything ever happens to me,

550
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 14: promised me, you look after Crystals.

551
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: But of course Bromwin's plans to reunite Crystal with Mark

552
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: Davis in nineteen ninety three did not eventuate. Mark Davis

553
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: would not be in regular contact with Crystal until nineteen

554
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: ninety five. She joined Mark and his family during school

555
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: holidays and they spoke about Bromwin. Crystal made disclosures to

556
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: Mark about what happened the night her mum disappeared, as

557
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: with other witnesses. Matt Fordham began by taking Mark Davis

558
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: through things that he had said in his nineteen ninety

559
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: eight police statement.

560
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: Firstly, sir, you say that you're describing Bronwin's character and

561
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: you say that you're both very headstrong people.

562
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 6: That's correct.

563
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: Romwin and Mark Davis had planned to be married in

564
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty four, but the wedding didn't happen. There

565
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: were tensions in their relationship. Matt Fordham asked whether Bromwin

566
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: would definitely go ahead with something once she had decided

567
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: on it, or was she indecisive and likely to change

568
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: her mind several times about something.

569
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 15: I'd say that once she had made her mind up,

570
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 15: she'd go ahead with it, which is probably a bit

571
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 15: of the problem. We had a long I was the same.

572
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 15: I wanted things done my way and she wanted things

573
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 15: done her way, and nevertheto shall meet.

574
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: By mid nineteen eighty five, they were not on speaking

575
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: terms and Mark Davis was no longer seeing his daughter Crystal.

576
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: And then in about early nineteen ninety, Mark saw Bromwin's sister,

577
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: Melissa Reid, in a nightclub in the Shire called Carmen's.

578
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: And at that time, sir, you were very keen to

579
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: meet up with Crystal, your daughter. Is that correct?

580
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 6: That's correct?

581
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 15: And I just found out my mother had Parkinson's disease,

582
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 15: and I just thought I'd like to get her Crystal

583
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 15: to know my mother before the disease declined too far

584
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 15: and she got to at least know her grandmother. I

585
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 15: asked Melissa, could she contact Bronwin for me to see

586
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 15: if it was possible to see Crystal, and she got

587
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 15: to me the following week and I ran into her

588
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 15: again at the nightclub and she said that Bronwin had

589
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 15: said no.

590
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: When Bromwin said no, do you remember was there any

591
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: reason given or was there any explanation of that?

592
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 15: Well, I think she was just trying to get on

593
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 15: with her life and you know, sort of put that

594
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 15: part of her life behind her, because Crystal didn't know

595
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 15: that John wasn't her father at the time I met

596
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 15: her when she was twelve, So nineteen ninety five I

597
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 15: think was when we finally met again.

598
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham was at a bit of a disadvantage. He

599
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: did not have in front of him the letter that

600
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: you just heard a voice actor read aloud, the one

601
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: which Bromwin sent to Mark Davis and his parents. The

602
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: letter had not yet been tended as a document at

603
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: the inquest because it was still sitting in an old

604
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: box of material which the detective Graham Diskin had collected

605
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: during his investigation. It was only on day four of

606
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: the inquest that the material was admitted as an exhibit,

607
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: after Glenn Taylor went and retrieved the box It included

608
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: drafts of Bromwin's letters to Mark and to others, and

609
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: some of Bromwin's handwritten notes. But on day two Matt

610
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: Fordham was traveling blind and he had to seek information

611
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: about the letter from the witness.

612
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: So that was the very first time that there was

613
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: any intent on Bromwin's behalf to reunite yourself with Crystal.

614
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

615
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 6: That's correct.

616
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 15: I think it was due because she was separating from

617
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 15: John and thought that it was time for Crystal to

618
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 15: know her real father.

619
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: When you say that she was separating from John and

620
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: it was time for Crystal to be reunited with her father,

621
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: could you explain where that notion came from, Well.

622
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 15: From the contents of the letter basically, and the nature

623
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 15: of the phone call, and she basically told Mum that

624
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 15: she wanted for us for Crystal to know her grandparents

625
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 15: and her parentage.

626
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: From your knowledge of the relationship between Jonathan Winfield and

627
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: bron Winfield, does the fact that you were contacted by

628
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 2: Bronwin does that signify to you that bronwin had made

629
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: her mind up about the future of her relationship with Jonathan.

630
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 15: Well, yes, it could also have meant that she may

631
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 15: have feared for herself. She was making sure that if

632
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 15: anything did happen to her, that Christel would be looked after.

633
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 15: Did she ever express that to you, No, not in

634
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 15: those words, but she definitely made her mind up that

635
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 15: she wasn't going to go back to John.

636
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham raised Mark's recollections from his statement of what

637
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: Cristel had told Mark in around early nineteen ninety eight.

638
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: They included Crystal hearing her parents arguing, Crystal going to

639
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: bed at about eight point thirty, Crystal hearing a motorbike

640
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: pull up outside the house, and finally Cristel's disclosure that

641
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: her mum was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had not been

642
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: taking her medication.

643
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: Then he asked, all of these things that Crystal has

644
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: told you, do you know what the source of that

645
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: information was?

646
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 15: Well, I now believe it was something she was told,

647
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 15: not what she actually remembers, because there's a couple of

648
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 15: things in there, like especially the part about the schizophrenia

649
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 15: and the pills, Well, it's just not true. So somebody

650
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 15: has implanted that thought in her at the stage the.

651
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: Issue about the motorbike pulling up and hearing the sound

652
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: of the motorbike do you also believe that Crystal was

653
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: told that information?

654
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: Oil, Well, I do yes. Bromwin's sister Kim Marshall told

655
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: police in nineteen ninety eight that John had told her

656
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: shortly after Broman's disappearance that she had been running around

657
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: town on the back of a motorbike and flirting with

658
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: men around town. He'll recall hearing Andy Reid talking about

659
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: this in episode three.

660
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 12: Jacko was a friend of the people that aimed the

661
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 12: takeaway shop that Bromin used to work there, and he

662
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 12: gave her a left home. So because he'd gave her

663
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 12: a left home on a motorbike, all of a sudden,

664
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 12: John's Oh, she's go there and around ten and she's

665
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 12: in another relationship with some boke. She's on the back

666
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 12: of a motorbike. He was very flustered about that.

667
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: He didn't handle that well.

668
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: Matt Fordham continued, and what's your opinion as to the

669
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: source of that information about the motorbike.

670
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 15: Well, I think it's either John's told her or Jody

671
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 15: or somebody's been telling her.

672
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: That's what happened when Crystal was relating this story to

673
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: you in nineteen ninety seven or nineteen ninety eight. Did

674
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: she use any descriptive words about the sound of the motorbike? No,

675
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: did she describe its sound in any way, or did

676
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: she said she heard a motorbike pull up. She didn't

677
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: describe it, for example, the room of the motor or

678
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: that the dak dak of the Harley or anything like that. No,

679
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: I have nothing further, Your worship.

680
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: John's lawyer had nothing to raise with Mark Davis, the

681
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: next witness, would leave a strong impression on the inquest.

682
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: Meghan reads lengthy stint under oath began with a stumble

683
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: from Matt Fordham.

684
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: You are her sister, Is that correct? No, I'm her

685
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: first cousin, first cousin. I'm sorry.

686
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: There were two distinct parts to Meghan's evidence at the inquest.

687
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: There's what she said in two thousand and two as

688
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: a fierce defender of Bromwin, and then there are the

689
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,959
Speaker 1: notes that the detective Graham Diskin talked in nineteen ninety three.

690
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: It's in those notes that a very different picture of

691
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Bromwin is painted, and it purportedly is coming from Megan.

692
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: Megan was taken to those notes during her time at

693
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: the and it made for several intense exchanges particularly with

694
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: John's lawyer Craig Leggett. Now listeners to the podcast know

695
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 1: that Meghan is adamant that an impersonator, someone other than

696
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: her but pretending to be her, must have given Graham

697
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: Discan those comments and statements. In my first face to

698
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: face meeting with Megan at her home on Sydney's Northern Beaches,

699
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: I raised this issue and I asked her to go

700
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: to one of the key documents and read from it. Meg,

701
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm just going to ask you to clearly and slowly

702
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: read that statement. Okay, this is not a signed statement

703
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: by Megan Reid. It is a document based on a

704
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: telephone conversation between Detective Graham Discan and a woman who

705
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: must have given him a name Megan read, But Megan

706
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: insists that it was not her. On the telephone to

707
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: the police officer in Ballina this.

708
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 5: Date spoke to the cousin of the missing person Meghan read.

709
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 5: Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to the MP

710
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 5: Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance, and only

711
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 5: that she was able to recognize her voice, she would

712
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 5: not have believed that, in fact, it was Bromwin. Meghan

713
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 5: stated that the missing person was talking a lot of

714
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 5: rubbish but did not seem to be affected by drugs

715
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 5: or alcohol. Statements were made like you will all pay

716
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 5: none of you will know what is happening, and other

717
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 5: statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated that she

718
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 5: has no fears about John Winfield being involved in anything

719
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 5: untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned. In

720
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 5: the past, she has questioned Bromwin over her attitude and

721
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 5: lies about John, and Bromwin admitted that she was seeking attention.

722
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 5: She believes that John is a great father and care

723
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 5: of the two children involved in the marriage, and would

724
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 5: do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that

725
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 5: in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and

726
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 5: described her as a flower child, believing that she may

727
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 5: well be living on a commune somewhere. She also had

728
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 5: a passion for money and was on the lookout for

729
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 5: a rich male to care for her if the opportunity arose. Absolutely, Booter,

730
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 5: I never ever would say that John told me that

731
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 5: she was at the age of Aquarius commune. This is

732
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 5: John's words. It's just so far from true. I mean,

733
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 5: I don't understand this at all. I didn't even know

734
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 5: it existed until recently, and I'm very upset about it,

735
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 5: which is I didn't do it.

736
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 10: Now.

737
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 5: The coroner at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena started discan,

738
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 5: but unfortunately he went off on the medical stress leeve

739
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 5: or something, and he had medical exemption from being subpoened

740
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 5: in court.

741
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: And Meghan had told Glenn Taylor in nineteen ninety eight

742
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: that Bromwin said John had threatened her if she ever

743
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: made a claim on his house, threatened Bromwin how exactly.

744
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: At the inquest, Meghan went further, John, Meghan said, had

745
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: threatened to kill Bromwin if she ever tried to claim

746
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: the house. Matt Fordham kicked things off by asking Megan

747
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: about a conversation that she said she had with Bromwin

748
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: when Bromwin confided something about what John had said.

749
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 5: Bromwin has always told me that John had lost previous

750
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 5: homes when they lost either through settlement or whatever, homes

751
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 5: that he built to previous wives, and he was determined

752
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 5: at this one he would never lose, you know. And

753
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 5: she told me that he would kill her before he

754
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 5: let her have that house.

755
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: Do you remember where you were when she told you.

756
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 5: That she told me that on numerous occasions over the years.

757
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 5: It's not just once.

758
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: And when she was telling you this in person, was

759
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 2: she describing any event that prompted her to say this

760
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: to you or was she putting it in any context?

761
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 5: Well, certainly when she was in the townhouse at the end,

762
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 5: she was very concerned for her safety, definitely, and I

763
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 5: was too, I was concerned for her safety.

764
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 2: Are you able to recall, ma'am, when the first occasion

765
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: that she'd use the words that John would kill her?

766
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: Are you able to remember, Oh, well.

767
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 5: That would have been back in Cranullah, when she was

768
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 5: describing to me how possessive he was and how he

769
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 5: kept her. He would not let her see her friends,

770
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 5: and he would only give her a very small amouth

771
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 5: money for food. You know, she had to budget for everything.

772
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 5: He was very you know, dictated everything to her.

773
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan ever have any conversations with you about the

774
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: loss of two previous houses to previous wives.

775
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't recall that. I didn't talk

776
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 5: to John about that.

777
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 11: No.

778
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: The claims and counterclaims around what John lost or gained

779
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: after the end of his relationships with previous Partners will

780
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: become part of a later episode. It arises again in

781
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: the evidence. At the inquest, Matt Fordham brought Megan to

782
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: a matter that had caused bromin a lot of distress.

783
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 5: Are you talking about the abortion here?

784
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 14: Yes?

785
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 5: Yes, she wanted to have the baby.

786
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: And how was it that she came to make the

787
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: decision to abort the pregnancy.

788
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 5: John said she couldn't have the baby.

789
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: That was it.

790
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 5: She had to have an abortion.

791
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: The police officer asked her about a conversation in late

792
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two in which Bromwin disclosed John physically assaulting her.

793
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 5: Yes, she told myself and my family, and she told

794
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 5: us that John had picked up a chair and thrown

795
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 5: it at her. She had bruises too. We saw her

796
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 5: in Sydney when she told us that.

797
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember whereabouts on her body you saw bruises?

798
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 5: They were on her legs. I think, look, I'm not

799
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 5: really one hundred percent sure about that, but I do

800
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 5: remember her telling me, telling us I should say about

801
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 5: that the family.

802
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: But on the occasions or do you remember how long

803
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: it was before she disappeared that you saw bruises on her?

804
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 5: Yes, definitely, that was the Christmas. Well, it would have

805
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 5: been Boxing Day, I think when they came for lunch,

806
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 5: and then John disappeared and he didn't come back for lunch,

807
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 5: and she stayed with my parents for a week before

808
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 5: they flew her back to Lennox said, and Crystal, I

809
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 5: should say alone.

810
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked further questions about the Boxing Day lunch,

811
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: where Meghan recalled John had returned to Lennox Head without warning,

812
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: leaving Bromwin and the children stranded in Sydney. And you

813
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: heard about this in episode two.

814
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: Boxing Day was.

815
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 5: To read Christmas always, the whole turkey and all the

816
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 5: rest of it, and so bonn Win and the family

817
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 5: were all there.

818
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 16: He never would have thought anything was wrong, no fight

819
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 16: for whatever. And he said he'd be back by one day,

820
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 16: two o'clock for lunch. Well he never showed up and

821
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 16: it wasn't tull about nine hours later that we found

822
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 16: it as he was back at Lenox Shared but he

823
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 16: had just driven back.

824
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: What was his explanation for just taking.

825
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 5: Off all there wasn't run. We never got an explanation.

826
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 5: Where were godsmacks?

827
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Megan to recount these events.

828
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: How did Brown react? When she was stranded by Jonathan.

829
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 5: She wasn't surprised at all and she was happy actually,

830
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 5: and Kristal was too. I mean they were given free rein.

831
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 5: I think she was very relaxed.

832
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham then turned to phone conversations that Meghan said

833
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: that she'd had with Bromwin while Bromin was living away

834
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: from John in Byron Street, Lennox Head and John was

835
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: working in Illawong in Sydney.

836
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you what her attitude towards

837
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: her marriage was.

838
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 5: She was terrified of John. It was over, absolutely over.

839
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 5: I heard John banging on the door. I could hear

840
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 5: him yelling and screaming. I mean I heard that. She

841
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 5: told me lots of events where he'd shown violence. She

842
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 5: had actually ripped the phone out of the wall at

843
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 5: one stage to stop him ringing. She was terribly fearful.

844
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 5: She told me that she had contacted a solicitor and

845
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 5: been told to take possession back of the house because

846
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 5: possession being nine tenths of the law, and she also

847
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 5: had no money and no family.

848
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: Just firstly, ma'am, referring to the phone being ripped out

849
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: of the wall by Bronwin, did that occur at the

850
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,959
Speaker 2: flat or the house.

851
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 5: At the flat, and I actually spoke to Crystal about

852
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 5: this and she remembers the event she was there.

853
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Meghan about the banging on the door

854
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: of Bromwin's flat and whether Meghan could say with confidence

855
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: that it was John Well.

856
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 5: I believe so, and I can't imagine anybody else doing that,

857
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 5: and she was yelling at him to stop and go away.

858
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 5: I know also that she wanted soul custody of the

859
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 5: children and she was trying to just keep well away

860
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 5: from him, and she wouldn't let the children near him.

861
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: You mentioned that she had disclosed to you that she

862
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: had spoken to a solicitor about correct that's.

863
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 5: Where she wanted to get some money from my parents.

864
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 5: She needed a retainer to keep that solicitor and he

865
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 5: had told her to move back into the house immediately,

866
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 5: which she did, and you know what happened.

867
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham asked Meghan about Bromin's decision to move back

868
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: in on the afternoon of Friday, May fourteen, nineteen nineteen.

869
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: And did she indicate to you what she feared may

870
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: have happened had Jonathan found out that she was living

871
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: inside the house.

872
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 5: Well, she'd always indicated that he would kill her if

873
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 5: she tried to get the house.

874
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: The police officer turned to another topic, Meghan's diary entries.

875
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,479
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three, they presented a documentary record which

876
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 1: noted conversations and events that occurred after Bromin's disappearance. Matt

877
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Fordham had some of the pages in front of him

878
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: as he asked Meghan questions and sought to clarify key

879
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: dates and details. He took Meghan to an entry dated Friday,

880
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: May fourteenth and presented her with a photocopy of the page.

881
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: You recorded that Bromwin moved home for some reason. Solicitor

882
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: or clairvoyant John flew up to find out. She told

883
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 2: him she had op opportunity to have holiday and left

884
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: with guy don't know who. John bundled up the kids

885
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: and took to Sydney. Ma'am, do you remember whether it

886
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 2: was your usual habit at the time to make the entry?

887
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 5: This has been written afterwards?

888
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: Sorry, just listen to the questions, mayor Yes, sorry, you

889
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 2: said that it had been written afterwards. Do you remember

890
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 2: how long after fourteen May you'd made the entry? On

891
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 2: that day?

892
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 5: I could tell if I had the next diary page,

893
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 5: thank you, it's been written here. Let me see, I'll

894
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 5: make sure it's right here, i'd say. On the next week,

895
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 5: the Friday, the twenty first, it looks like the same pen.

896
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 5: I don't know why, but I did.

897
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 2: And so it's the case that at some stage, perhaps

898
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 2: a week later, you'd gone back and made the entry

899
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: on fourteen May. Is that correct?

900
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 5: I believe so, Yes, well, I must have. I must

901
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 5: have written that when I spoke to John and he

902
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 5: told me that she was gone. And then because I

903
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 5: spoke to her and she told me the solicitor had

904
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 5: told her to move back into the house and that's

905
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 5: what she was doing. I actually spoke to her at

906
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 5: the house, okay, when she was back there, before John

907
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 5: had gone up there.

908
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: He asked Megan about the regular phone calls she shared

909
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: with Bromwin.

910
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 2: Did it strike you as strange that the phone calls ceased?

911
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Absolutely, I can't believe it.

912
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: He took Megan back to the diary note about Bromwin

913
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: supposedly taking an opportunity to take a holiday and leaving

914
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 1: with an unknown male.

915
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: The source of that information was that Jonathan Winfield.

916
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct, do you ever hear.

917
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: From any other friend or relative of Bronwyn that she

918
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: had left with a guy?

919
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 5: No, I didn't.

920
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: Was it ever suggested to you by anyone other than

921
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: Jonathan Winfield that she had left to have a holiday?

922
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely? No one. No a holiday for two days?

923
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 7: Two days.

924
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan tell you that Bronwin said anything that time?

925
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 5: Nothing apart from oh, I'm glad you're here. I've had

926
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 5: the opportunity to go away for the weekend, and would

927
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 5: you I'm looking after the kids.

928
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: See you, and you're quite firm on would you mind.

929
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 5: I'm quite firm on that because I was so surprised.

930
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 5: I can't believe that. I couldn't believe that Bromwin would

931
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 5: say that. I just don't believe it.

932
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan indicate to you who it may have been

933
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 2: that she had left with the clairvoyant?

934
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 5: He told me that Bromwin believed the Clearvoyant is a

935
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 5: reincarnagent something or other of her father.

936
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: Meghan's diary entries are a compelling record of what John

937
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: Winfield purportedly said to Megan in May nineteen ninety three.

938
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: It's there in black and white, dated at the time

939
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: the conversations were said to have happened. The police investigation

940
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: had ruled out any possible involvement from the tarot card

941
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: reader and clairvoyant known as Pendragon. He had even been

942
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: placed under police surveillance in nineteen ninety three as part

943
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: of the Detective Graham Diskin's investigation. Matt Fordham continued with

944
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: Megan's diary entries by bringing her to one maid on

945
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: May twenty five, nineteen ninety three, a day when John,

946
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: with Crystal and Lauren visited Meghan in Sydney.

947
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 2: Ma'am, you say that, or it's recorded in your diary

948
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 2: that John, Cristal and Lauren coming to stay today tonight.

949
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 2: Both kids and John need therapy desperately. And then you say,

950
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: Crystal told me that Braun told her that John is

951
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: not her father Mark Davis is. She does not want

952
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: to know him. She said that Braun ripped the phone

953
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: off the wall. Lauren very withdrawn. Crystal does need help, therapy,

954
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 2: wants to stay with me. And then you say that

955
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 2: you remember Jonathan and the kids arriving here. Yes, And

956
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 2: in your statement, ma'am, you say that Jonathan told you

957
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: that Bronwyn had gone off with some guy in a car,

958
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: that she was due back home in Lennox Head in

959
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: a few days.

960
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 5: That's correct. Myself and my husband at that time was there.

961
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: It is interesting to note that Meghan wrote in her

962
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: diary in May nineteen ninety three that Crystal had disclosed

963
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: bromwhen ripping the telephone off the wall. The police officer

964
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: asked about John's demeanor on his visit to Meghan's home

965
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: in Sydney.

966
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 2: And ma'am also in your statement, you describe his demeanor

967
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 2: at the time. Do you remember what it was?

968
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 5: I've honestly never seen anything like it before. He was shaking,

969
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 5: He was practically frothing at the mouse. I was terrified.

970
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 5: I didn't know what had happened, but I knew that

971
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 5: it was something more than someone missing. I just didn't know.

972
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: What sort of emotions. Did Jonathan's behavior depicted to.

973
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 5: You someone who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

974
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 5: I believed I believed he was either having one or

975
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 5: he was on the verge of one.

976
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 2: When you say that he was shaking, he was.

977
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 5: Shaking, he was crying, he was babbling, and the children

978
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,720
Speaker 5: were just in shock. They were just white and wide

979
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 5: eyed and staring and not doing anything. It was really sad. Yeah.

980
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 2: Could it have been that Jonathan was distressed about the disappearance, I.

981
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 5: Very much doubt it. I mean it was over the top,

982
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 5: it really was. He needed help. I believed at that

983
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 5: stage he needed help, some serious psychiatric help, that's for sure.

984
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: And ma'am, also later in your diary on twenty six,

985
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: may you record that John and the kids left at

986
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 2: four thirty am. Yes, And I take it that they

987
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 2: were leaving to return to Lennox Head. Is that correct?

988
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 5: Yes, I'd say so.

989
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:35,959
Speaker 1: Yes.

990
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: On twenty seven May, ma'am, you've recorded in your diary,

991
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: John arrived home, no sign of brawn. He talked to

992
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 2: her friends who thought she was on the verge of

993
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 2: a breakdown or having one. Yes, has been seeing a

994
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 2: clairvoyant on a regular basis. Thinks that it's her dad

995
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: in a spirit form.

996
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 5: That's right.

997
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 2: That information. Were you able to confirm that information from

998
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: anybody else?

999
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 5: No, absolutely not. John told me that information. He also

1000
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 5: told me that they had found himself and I believe

1001
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 5: the landlord of the townhouse numerous empty bottles of alcohol,

1002
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 5: empty packets are valium in there when she vacated, So

1003
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 5: he indicated that she might be like, you know, an

1004
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 5: alcoholic drug addict as well.

1005
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: And the information that the clairvoyant, that Bromwin may have

1006
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: thought that clairvoyant was her father in spirit form. Did

1007
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 2: Bromwin ever disclose that to you directly?

1008
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 5: Brown never spoke to me about a clairvoyant whatsoever ever,

1009
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 5: never heard of it.

1010
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: And so Jonathan was the source of that information, that's correct.

1011
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham brought Megan to a diary entry dated Monday

1012
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: July twelve, just under two months after Bromwin's disappearance, and.

1013
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: You'd agree there that on that date there is a

1014
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: record that says John found that Braun returned whilst he

1015
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: was away. She had took her close and his genes photos,

1016
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: left a signed Medicare check, he.

1017
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 5: Said, basically with the genes going, he said to me

1018
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 5: that he believed she had a boyfriend and therefore he'd

1019
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 5: taken the genes also the photos of the children, and

1020
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 5: left assigned Medicare check and taken all her personal possessions.

1021
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham next turned to Meghan's evidence in her nineteen

1022
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: ninety eight police statement that John had made several disclosures

1023
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: to her about Bromwin being seen alive after May nineteen

1024
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: ninety three. It must have been clear to the inquest

1025
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: by now that Meghan and John had stayed in regular

1026
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: close contact. There were three separate conversations where Meghan remembered

1027
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: John telling her that Bromwin was alive and had been seen.

1028
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: Meghan recalled John telling her that Bromwin had been found

1029
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: by police at Coff's Harbor, at a commune known as

1030
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,439
Speaker 1: the Age of Aquarius. Matt Fordham asked if Meghan had

1031
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: shared this information with any members of the family.

1032
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 5: Look, everybody, I spoke to, everybody I knew about it.

1033
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 5: Of course we were also worried about Bromwin.

1034
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: Have you heard that information from anybody other than Jonathan Winfield.

1035
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 11: No.

1036
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 5: In fact, when I confirmed it with the police, I

1037
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 5: found out it was not true.

1038
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 2: When you say you confirmed it with the police, did

1039
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 2: you make some inquiries with the Coff's Harbor police.

1040
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 5: No, not Coff's Harbor. I rang balin of police eventually.

1041
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 5: I don't know when, but I did, and I found

1042
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 5: it wasn't true because I wanted it to be true.

1043
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: Meghan could not recall the second occasion, when John purportedly

1044
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: told her that police had found Bromwin alive, but Meghan

1045
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: could remember the third occasion. She said it was when

1046
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: John visited her while she was on holiday with her

1047
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: parents and children in Queenland, possibly in early nineteen ninety seven.

1048
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 5: He was coming for lunch to my parents' apartment which

1049
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 5: I was staying in for the school holidays with my children,

1050
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 5: for lunch and he ended up staying for four days

1051
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 5: or something, not that he was invited.

1052
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 2: And you say in your statement, ma'am, that Jonathan told

1053
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: you that Bronwin was alive and well and living in Brisbane.

1054
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: That's correct, but that he didn't elaborate any further and

1055
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: didn't want to say much more about it.

1056
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 5: He told me that she had been found and he

1057
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 5: told me that he had seen her, and he told

1058
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 5: her not to come back now because he didn't want

1059
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 5: her to hurt children anymore.

1060
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 1: This last bit from Meghan that the inquest was new.

1061
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: Meghan had told Glen Taylor in nineteen ninety eight that

1062
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: on this holiday in Queensland in early nineteen ninety seven,

1063
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: John told her that Roman had been found by police

1064
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: in Brisbane and that he didn't want anything to do

1065
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: with her. But if Meghan had told Glen Taylor in

1066
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight what she was telling the inquest in

1067
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,439
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, which was that John said he'd

1068
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 1: actually talked to Bronwin and told her not to come back.

1069
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: Then it had not made its way into her nineteen

1070
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: ninety eight signed statement. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett must have

1071
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: been relishing the opportunity to cross examine Megan about these discrepancies.

1072
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,959
Speaker 2: Do you remember what Jonathan's demeanor was when he told

1073
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 2: you about this?

1074
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 5: It was very matter of fact, completely, Look, it was

1075
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 5: very clear I was not to speak to the children

1076
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 5: at all about the disappearance. I never could and he

1077
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 5: never spoke about it.

1078
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 2: Did Jonathan ever indicate to you that he was disappointed

1079
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: that Bronwin hadn't returned from her brief holiday.

1080
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 5: No, he said he wouldn't take it back if she

1081
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 5: wanted to come.

1082
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: Back, ma'am. Obviously, being a close friend of Bronwin, you

1083
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: would have an opinion as to how she felt towards

1084
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 2: her children.

1085
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 5: She was the most devotion mother I've ever come across.

1086
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 5: All she ever wanted was the picket fence and the family.

1087
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 5: That's it, I mean, that's all she'd ever said to me.

1088
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 5: From you know, little kids when we were growing up together.

1089
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 5: She had asked me, just prior to my marriage in

1090
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 5: December nine eighty six, if in the event anything happened

1091
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 5: to her, that I would take.

1092
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: Crystal Bromwin's cousin, Megan Reed made a startling new disclosure.

1093
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: It occurred during a short break from Morning Tea. The

1094
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: police officer and lawyer Matt Fordham asked Megan about it

1095
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: when she was back behind the witness stand.

1096
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 2: Ma'am, just when we adjourned a short time ago for

1097
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: morning Tea. Is it the case that you approached me

1098
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: inside the courtroom here and told me something that Crystal

1099
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: had told you.

1100
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct.

1101
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 2: Could you tell us what that was?

1102
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 5: This was, I'd say early December of last year. Crystal

1103
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 5: told me, when she was in the car driving back

1104
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 5: to Sydney on the night that her mother disappeared, that

1105
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 5: she knew she would never see her mother again.

1106
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 2: Did she say why she felt that way?

1107
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 5: She just said she felt that way she knew she'd

1108
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 5: never see her again.

1109
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham had finished with Megan's nineteen ninety eight police statement.

1110
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: He turned now to the statements recorded in Detective Sergeant

1111
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: Graham Diskin's running sheets in nineteen ninety three those controversial

1112
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: comments which were purportedly uttered by Megan and noted by

1113
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: Discan just a brief recap. The entry dated September two,

1114
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three noted that Discan had talked to Megan

1115
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: Reid and she'd told him that she had spoken to Bromwin.

1116
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: In the days leading up to her disappearance. Graham Diskin

1117
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: wrote that Megan told him that Bromwin was talking a

1118
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: lot of rubbish and had made statements like you will

1119
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: all pay and none of you will know what is happening.

1120
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: Matt Fordham read these statements aloud in the courtroom, and

1121
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: Meghan jumped in to offer for an explanation.

1122
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 5: I now know what that meant. She had approached my

1123
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 5: parents to borrow money to retain a solicitor, and my

1124
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 5: parents had denied her that, and she was very upset

1125
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 5: with the family, and she had felt that we had

1126
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 5: betrayed her, and that's what that was about. And she

1127
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 5: was very angry, and she thought that I knew about it,

1128
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 5: and I didn't know anything about it.

1129
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 2: And Sergeant Diskin says that these conversations occurred days before

1130
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: her disappearance. Do you remember how long it was before

1131
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 2: she disappeared.

1132
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 5: It was only days before her disappearance that she had

1133
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 5: retained the solicitor who told her to, you know, move

1134
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 5: back into the house. So yes, because that was yes,

1135
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 5: it was the last time my mother spoke to her

1136
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 5: was when my mother said to her that she couldn't

1137
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 5: have the money.

1138
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: Did you ever tell Sergeant Discan that Bromwin told you

1139
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 2: none of you will know what is happening.

1140
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 5: I might have. I don't know what that meant, though.

1141
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: You can't think of any particular issues that may have

1142
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 2: prompted you to say that may have been the context

1143
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: for that comment from Bronwin, I.

1144
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 5: Don't know, but I do know that it was about

1145
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 5: the money, the money issue, and that she did feel

1146
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 5: that we had let her down.

1147
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 2: Ma'am, I'll just read out the next paragraph of the

1148
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 2: report and I'll ask you to comment on the source

1149
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 2: of the information and the context of it also, Sergeant

1150
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 2: Discan reports. Megan stated that she has no fears about

1151
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 2: John Winfield being involved in anything untoward so far as

1152
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 2: his wife's disappearance is concerned. In the past, she has

1153
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 2: questioned Bronwin over her attitude and lies about John and

1154
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 2: Bronwin admitted that she was seeking attention.

1155
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 5: I don't remember saying that, and it goes against my

1156
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 5: character to say that, because I've always maintained he was

1157
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 5: involved right from the word go. I couldn't see that

1158
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 5: there could be possibly any other reason.

1159
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 2: And is it the case that you suggest that Sergeant

1160
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 2: Diskin's comments there are incorrect, Yes, I do. Can you

1161
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: think of anything that you may have said to Sergeant

1162
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 2: Discan that may have led him to believe that that

1163
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 2: was your attitude?

1164
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 5: I have no idea how that could have happened, I

1165
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 5: honestly do.

1166
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 2: Not, ma'am. Sergeant Discan also records she believes that John

1167
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 2: is a great father and career of the two children

1168
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 2: involved in the marriage, and would do nothing to upset

1169
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: the children. Meghan also believes that in the past, Ronon

1170
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 2: was a user of cannabis and described her as a

1171
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 2: flower child, believing that she may well be living on

1172
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: a commune somewhere. She also had a passion for money

1173
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 2: and was on the lookout for a rich male to

1174
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 2: care for her if the opportunity arose.

1175
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that's not true, Absolutely not true. Absolutely.

1176
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 5: I would never say that, Absolutely not, not unless I've

1177
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 5: lost my mind completely. No, I would never say that.

1178
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: It must have been an uncomfortable time for Megan Red.

1179
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,959
Speaker 2: Can you think of anything that you may have said

1180
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 2: to Sergeant Discan that may have led him to believe

1181
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: that that was.

1182
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 5: I could only be repeating things that John had told me.

1183
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 5: Apart from that, there's absolutely no way I would have

1184
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 5: said that.

1185
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 2: I understand that that's your belief today. Could it have

1186
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: been your belief in September nineteen ninety three.

1187
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 5: It's been my belief from the word go. No, I

1188
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,959
Speaker 5: could never have believed that about Bronwyn, never, not ever,

1189
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 5: There's not even his largest possibility.

1190
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: The report continues. It says Megan stated that Bronwin has

1191
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: always been upset over the death of her father some

1192
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: years ago, and by the fact that she was luckless

1193
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 2: in his estate because he was a bankrupt at the

1194
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: time of his death.

1195
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 5: I didn't know that. Excuse me, until right now. I

1196
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 5: didn't know that.

1197
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 2: No, Sergeant Diston goes on, ma'am. He says, all monies

1198
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 2: went to paying outstanding debts. Bronwin, until just prior to

1199
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 2: her disappearance, has been supported for money from Megan's father.

1200
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:05,439
Speaker 2: Bronwin's uncle. However, he has declined to continue in that vein,

1201
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 2: and Bronwin was somewhat upset by that is that information.

1202
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 5: My father never maintained her whatsoever. And I don't believe

1203
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 5: that was me that spoke to him. It was over

1204
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 5: the telephone. It wasn't me. It definitely wasn't me. None

1205
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 5: of this is true.

1206
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: Do you know any other members of the family that

1207
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 2: may have given this information to There is.

1208
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 5: Nobody that spoke to the police other than myself and

1209
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 5: my mother and my father. And I was with the

1210
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 5: police when they interviewed my parents. And I know for

1211
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 5: a fact that she wanted the money to retain a solicitor,

1212
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 5: and they didn't come forward with the money. And that

1213
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 5: is the only time my father did not support Bromwin,

1214
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 5: only when she was left there at the house in

1215
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 5: the previous December. I don't believe that was me who

1216
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 5: spoke to whoever that was.

1217
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: And you understand that, of course, I'm not criticizing you

1218
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 2: in any way, I know.

1219
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 5: But you understand, of course my position. That's not me.

1220
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,560
Speaker 5: I didn't say any of those things.

1221
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 2: There may well have been some errors that were were

1222
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 2: not errors.

1223
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 5: That's totally untrue.

1224
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: That Forham explored the possibility with Megan that someone else

1225
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: had made a phone call two Graham Diskin in nineteen

1226
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: ninety three, pretending to be her.

1227
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I understand that, ma'am. Could you tell us do

1228
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 2: you remember what your telephone number in Sydney was in

1229
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three?

1230
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 5: Oh? Gee, I don't know. Nineteen ninety three could have

1231
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 5: been zero, two four something or other?

1232
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 2: Was your phone number four four nine nine seven eighty five?

1233
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 5: That's right?

1234
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 2: And do you remember who else was living with you

1235
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 2: at that telephone number at that time?

1236
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 5: My husband and my children and friends coming and going.

1237
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 5: But no, I don't look, I just.

1238
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 2: Don't know, ma'am. For the sake of completeness, I will

1239
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 2: continue with the things that Sergeant Diskin has recorded in September,

1240
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 2: and I'll ask you to comment on them also, he says.

1241
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 2: Megan also reiterated the fact that her mother did exactly

1242
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,719
Speaker 2: the same thing some years ago, and believes that one

1243
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 2: day she will walk back into the family home as

1244
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 2: if nothing happened, due to her state of mind at

1245
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 2: the time of her disappearance. No, have you ever discussed

1246
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 2: that issue with Sergeant Diskin.

1247
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 5: I don't know whether I've discussed that issue, but I

1248
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 5: don't believe that Bromwell was anything like her mother. I

1249
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 5: discussed with a psychiatrist at the time of her disappearance,

1250
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 5: right or shortly thereafter, when John suggested to me that

1251
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 5: perhaps she was like her mother, I discussed with the

1252
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 5: psychiatrist whether you know what we would see of and

1253
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 5: I didn't believe ever that she was of anything other

1254
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 5: than sound mind. I mean, her mother was a completely

1255
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,759
Speaker 5: different situation, ma'am.

1256
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 2: If you had spoken to the police investigating the disappearance

1257
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 2: of Bronwin would have been something that you would have

1258
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 2: recorded in your diary.

1259
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1260
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 2: Do you know whether there are any diary entries that

1261
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 2: relate to when was this in September of nineteen ninety three,

1262
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1263
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,640
Speaker 5: The rest of the diary is not here. I don't know,

1264
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 5: but I mean those things, I mean, I've never ever

1265
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 5: thought that about Bromwin never. I've always sort of been

1266
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 5: a champion for Bromwin. I mean, I've always felt that

1267
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:28,560
Speaker 5: she's the underdog.

1268
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 2: I've nothing further, your worship.

1269
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, was far more pointed in his

1270
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 1: questioning Meghan had made very serious allegations about his client,

1271
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:46,600
Speaker 1: John wanted these taken head on. Craig Leggett began with

1272
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: a discrepancy. It revolved around what Meghan claimed that John

1273
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,560
Speaker 1: had told her while visiting her on holiday in Queensland

1274
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: about Bromwin being seen in the state capital of Brisbane.

1275
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 6: Miss read, I want to deal with the allegation that

1276
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 6: you've made this morning that mister Winfield said to you

1277
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 6: words to the effect I've seen Bromwin in Brisbane and

1278
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 6: I've told her not to come home.

1279
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 5: That's correct.

1280
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 6: You're aware you're on oath, aren't you.

1281
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 5: Yes, I am, Yes, I am.

1282
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 6: You can search in vain in your written statement for

1283
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 6: any reference to a conversation where John Winfield told you

1284
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 6: that he had actually seen Bronman and that he had

1285
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 6: said to her don't come home. It's just not in

1286
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 6: your statement, is it.

1287
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,759
Speaker 5: Well, it may not be, but it happened.

1288
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 6: Is there a reason why it's not in your statement?

1289
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 5: Probably because I've forgotten about it. I don't know. But

1290
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 5: he told me on many occasions that she had been cited,

1291
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,799
Speaker 5: so I didn't believe it anyway, but I know where

1292
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 5: it happened and when it happened.

1293
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 6: Just pausing there you said. Just then you said, he

1294
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 6: told me on many occasions she had been cited, didn't she?

1295
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 5: That's right by the police, like was or they knew

1296
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 5: where she was well?

1297
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 6: Cited? Is the word you volunteered?

1298
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 5: Well? Cited? Well, they knew where she was had been found?

1299
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 5: Sorry was the word no?

1300
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 6: When you said found?

1301
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: Now?

1302
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 9: All right?

1303
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,640
Speaker 5: Cited? Found? That's what I meant to you.

1304
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 6: It's the same, is it sighting and being found?

1305
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 5: Well, yes, she's alive, then, isn't she if she's been cited?

1306
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,799
Speaker 6: Yes, So you agree with me that most likely Jonathan

1307
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 6: Winfield said to you there have been sightings of Bronwin.

1308
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 5: No, Well, which on which occasion are we referring to?

1309
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 6: Well, you referred to numerous occasions when he.

1310
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 5: Said, no, on which occasion are you referring to?

1311
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 6: At the moment I'm asking the questions. A moment ago

1312
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 6: in the witness box on oath, you said words to

1313
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 6: the effect Jonathan told me on numerous occasions that bronwin

1314
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 6: had been cited. That's what you said, wasn't it?

1315
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 5: Yes? I think so.

1316
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 6: Yes.

1317
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 1: Craig Leggott turned to Megan's recollection of John's visit to

1318
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: her with the children in Sydney on May twenty five,

1319
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: nine days after Bromin's disappearance. Meagan described John in her

1320
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: statement as a shaking, crying mess, adding that he had

1321
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: put it across that he was upset that Bromwin had

1322
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: taken off with another man.

1323
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 6: Now, can I suggest to you that in your written

1324
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,879
Speaker 6: statement what you were endeavoring to convey was that Jonathan

1325
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 6: was putting on an act and that you could see

1326
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 6: through it.

1327
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 5: No, that's not correct. I didn't believe he was acting.

1328
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 6: Well, what did you mean by he put it across

1329
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 6: that he was upset.

1330
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 5: Well, because I believe that. I didn't believe he was

1331
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 5: upset that she got off with another man. I didn't

1332
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 5: believe that anybody could be in that state over something

1333
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 5: so well another man, because I just I didn't believe it.

1334
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 5: It seemed very unusual for somebody to be in that

1335
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 5: kind of situation.

1336
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: If those present had any doubt about John's lawyer's view

1337
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 1: of Megan's credibility and her evidence, then those doubts were

1338
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 1: dispelled with the next question.

1339
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 6: Now, what I'm suggesting to you is that, for some

1340
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 6: reason best known to you in the witness box today,

1341
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 6: you are embellishing you are to use the vernacular being

1342
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 6: a drama queen. Now I want to give you an

1343
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 6: opportunity to address that allegation.

1344
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 1: Tensions in the courtroom were already high, but they were

1345
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: about to elevate further as John's lawyer tightened the screws

1346
01:15:42,040 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: on Bromman's friend and cousin, Megan Reid. Is written and

1347
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: investigated by me Headley Thomas as a podcast production for

1348
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 1: The Australian. If anyone has information which may help solve

1349
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:15,560
Speaker 1: this cold case, please contact me confidentially by emailing Bronwyn

1350
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. You can read

1351
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 1: more about this case and see a range of photographs

1352
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: and other artwork at the website Bronwyn podcast dot com.

1353
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first. The production

1354
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiot,

1355
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez,

1356
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray, with assistance from

1357
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 1: Isaac Iron's. Audio production for this podcast series is by

1358
01:16:54,800 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: Wasabi Audio and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We

1359
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 1: have been assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield.

1360
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 6: We can only do this kind of journalism with.

1361
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 1: The support of our subscribers and our major sponsors like

1362
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 1: Harvey Norman. For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps,

1363
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 1: timelines and documents about this podcast and other podcasts including

1364
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: The Teacher's Pet, The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story,

1365
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: Shandy's Legacy and The Night Driver. Go to the Australian

1366
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 1: dot com dot au and subscribe