WEBVTT - “How do I handle a toxic boss?” 0:00:00.050 --> 0:00:03.470 The notion of comparison, I think, is interesting because as humans, 0:00:03.510 --> 0:00:06.200 we compare every day. 100%. And all of us keep 0:00:06.210 --> 0:00:08.860 saying comparison is a thief of joy, but innately, you're 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:09.330 going to do it. 0:00:09.380 --> 0:00:12.420 Human condition. Yeah, my advice is try your best not to. 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.300 Because there'll be people that have. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.680 More high-flying careers than you that are both parents and aren't, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.160 that are jealous of where you are with your journey. 0:00:20.300 --> 0:00:23.230 Likewise, you're feeling that sort of comparison trap with other people. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.900 This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.760 Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation, the land on which 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.640 we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters. Always 0:00:32.700 --> 0:00:37.220 was and always will be Aboriginal land. Hello and welcome 0:00:37.260 --> 0:00:38.480 to Do You Ready or Not, the show where we 0:00:38.540 --> 0:00:41.979 answer three of your questions on making work work alongside motherhood. 0:00:42.260 --> 0:00:43.800 I'm Lou. And I'm Loz. 0:00:43.900 --> 0:00:46.080 And today you are asking us all about dealing with 0:00:46.140 --> 0:00:48.240 a sexist micromanager boss. 0:00:49.170 --> 0:00:50.830 I'm looking forward to that, sort of. 0:00:50.930 --> 0:00:54.470 Career comparison and identity after kids and the double standard 0:00:54.510 --> 0:00:56.700 between work, travel and social time away. 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.600 Oh, that is an interesting one. I cannot wait for 0:00:59.620 --> 0:01:01.840 question three, but let's get into number one. This is 0:01:01.860 --> 0:01:04.959 from Valencia. What a stunning name. Got any tips for 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.600 dealing with a CEO turned micromanager who is casually sexist, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:13.110 patronizing and constantly tries to mansplain? It's gotten especially worse 0:01:13.230 --> 0:01:15.570 now that I'm making plans to return to work part time. 0:01:16.020 --> 0:01:18.670 whilst taking flexible unpaid parental leave. 0:01:19.050 --> 0:01:20.530 Oh, mate. Oh, dear. 0:01:20.569 --> 0:01:22.770 I don't know how to even put this politely. Either 0:01:22.790 --> 0:01:24.760 call it out or look for another job. 0:01:25.310 --> 0:01:26.209 I sort of agree. 0:01:26.230 --> 0:01:29.500 I mean, I need more context too. But a fish 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.220 rots from the head down. I've said this time and 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.240 time again. So if this was a manager, I'd be like, okay, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.220 there's different ways to sort this situation out. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.110 But this is your CEO. So this is the top 0:01:40.770 --> 0:01:42.110 big cheese of the ladder. 0:01:42.870 --> 0:01:46.350 And he sets the tone, not just for himself, but 0:01:46.410 --> 0:01:49.310 how others around him are going to behave in order 0:01:49.370 --> 0:01:51.730 to get into his little circle. And I think pretty 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.860 soon if he's constantly sexist, if he's making rude remarks, 0:01:55.900 --> 0:01:57.600 if he's putting down other stuff and if he's trying 0:01:57.620 --> 0:02:01.110 to mansplain to you, watch the senior leadership team around 0:02:01.190 --> 0:02:03.890 him begin to incorporate that into their management style. 0:02:03.970 --> 0:02:05.790 It is gross. It is disgusting. 0:02:06.070 --> 0:02:09.250 I would make notes of some examples because if you're 0:02:09.270 --> 0:02:10.790 actually going to call it out, you're going to need it. 0:02:10.810 --> 0:02:11.950 Especially for a CEO. 0:02:12.330 --> 0:02:15.370 Because as Loz said, he's top of the food chain, unfortunately. 0:02:16.230 --> 0:02:19.450 I would make notes of that in writing, what has 0:02:19.510 --> 0:02:21.460 happened to you, because you might need them if you 0:02:21.470 --> 0:02:24.419 call it out. And on the sidelines, I mean, this 0:02:24.500 --> 0:02:26.239 is one of those examples where I'm like, fuck, this 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:27.519 isn't the answer I want to give you. 0:02:27.540 --> 0:02:28.940 I want to be like, just fight it and you 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:29.579 will be fine. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.960 But I'm like, on the sidelines, I would be fucking 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:33.940 starting to look for a new job, which is sad. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.760 It's an unfair world we find ourselves in. But I 0:02:36.780 --> 0:02:39.120 would be doing that on the side. But in this example, 0:02:39.260 --> 0:02:41.420 if he's an absolute pig, which he sounds like he 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.119 might be, If this was me personally, I would do 0:02:44.139 --> 0:02:46.489 a little bit of fighting, but also know what's at 0:02:46.550 --> 0:02:48.929 stake in that fighting and go with all of your 0:02:48.970 --> 0:02:50.130 evidence very clear. 0:02:50.330 --> 0:02:52.109 And I think you're going to get a very quick 0:02:52.169 --> 0:02:55.610 understanding of whether or not he's putting on this behaviour 0:02:56.270 --> 0:03:00.220 as maybe a new CEO, maybe to impress others, even 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.400 though I don't agree with that, or perhaps it's an 0:03:02.540 --> 0:03:04.859 insecurity thing. If you raise it with him in a 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.820 polite manner and say, hey, look, I just want to 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:08.240 let you know when you made that comment the other day, 0:03:08.340 --> 0:03:09.859 it made me a little bit uncomfortable. I do feel 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.700 like you're explaining things to me that I do already 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.030 know or that you're talking down to me. And I 0:03:16.070 --> 0:03:18.210 know that's not your intention, but this is how it feels. 0:03:18.650 --> 0:03:21.690 If he handles that conversation well, then maybe. 0:03:21.710 --> 0:03:24.930 We could go on a learning journey together. Exactly right. 0:03:25.590 --> 0:03:29.790 But if these are repetitive behaviours and if you have 0:03:29.810 --> 0:03:33.079 the conversation with him and he's really defensive or he... 0:03:33.870 --> 0:03:36.540 says that you're being too precious or that you can't 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.780 take a joke, get onto LinkedIn, update your resume and 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:40.440 get the fuck. 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:40.740 Out of there. 0:03:40.780 --> 0:03:43.320 Because also, as Loz said earlier or alluded to earlier, 0:03:43.420 --> 0:03:45.660 if that's how he's going to respond to you, if 0:03:45.690 --> 0:03:47.830 he responds poorly to you, then that's how he's seeing 0:03:47.850 --> 0:03:49.190 the tone with management too. 0:03:49.410 --> 0:03:51.330 And God knows where that leads you. 0:03:51.410 --> 0:03:53.470 If you're all calling it out because then there could 0:03:53.490 --> 0:03:57.610 be like a bullying harassment thing going on company-wide or management-wide. 0:03:57.790 --> 0:03:59.430 Yeah, and you just don't want to work for people 0:03:59.470 --> 0:04:01.270 that want to try to please someone like that. 0:04:01.390 --> 0:04:03.370 Yeah. Like pleasing someone like that kind of means you 0:04:03.390 --> 0:04:04.850 need to be a bit like them. I don't want 0:04:04.870 --> 0:04:05.470 to work for anyone like that. 0:04:05.490 --> 0:04:07.390 I'd love to know the culture of the managers that 0:04:07.430 --> 0:04:10.270 sit underneath him, whether they're like he's gross and we 0:04:10.310 --> 0:04:12.560 agree or whether they're a bit more like, I don't know, 0:04:13.030 --> 0:04:15.260 sacrificial towards him and just sort of do whatever he says. 0:04:15.300 --> 0:04:17.460 I'd be so interested to know because that also tells 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:18.460 you a lot about the culture. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.720 Even if he's gross and you don't agree. If he's 0:04:20.740 --> 0:04:25.440 still there. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Call it out and get out. 0:04:25.580 --> 0:04:28.260 I'm so sorry to make your life more Adam in full, 0:04:28.339 --> 0:04:29.680 but we have done just that. 0:04:30.300 --> 0:04:34.419 Question two from Maddie. Before having kids, I progressed quickly 0:04:34.460 --> 0:04:36.560 in my career, but since becoming a mom, things have 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.480 slowed as I've prioritized family life. Recently, I've seen people 0:04:40.500 --> 0:04:42.479 who are at a similar level to me pre-kids step 0:04:42.500 --> 0:04:45.100 into director roles, and it's brought up a really bittersweet 0:04:45.140 --> 0:04:48.220 mix of emotions. I am genuinely happy for them and 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.110 wouldn't change having my kids for anything, but it's also 0:04:51.190 --> 0:04:54.410 made me reflect on career momentum, identity, and where I 0:04:54.450 --> 0:04:56.349 might be now had things looked different. 0:04:56.730 --> 0:04:59.520 I think we've all been in that situation, by the way. 100%. 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.500 I've also noticed shifts in how I'm perceived at work 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.440 since becoming a mom, including assumptions around ambition or availability, 0:05:04.500 --> 0:05:06.479 which has made me think about the motherhood penalty and 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.730 how common this experience might be. Would love to hear 0:05:08.750 --> 0:05:12.230 a chat about navigating career progression, comparison, and identity after kids. 0:05:12.730 --> 0:05:18.920 Firstly, I want to say, Maddie, literally, I reckon 99.5% 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.580 of people listening to this right now resonate with what 0:05:21.620 --> 0:05:23.400 you just said. So I think knowing that you're not 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.180 alone is important. When it comes to people sort of 0:05:27.220 --> 0:05:29.860 deciding on your behalf how ambitious or available you are 0:05:29.900 --> 0:05:32.560 that you mentioned, I would just have a conversation with 0:05:32.580 --> 0:05:35.350 your closest in charge, whoever you're actually reporting to. I 0:05:35.370 --> 0:05:37.470 worded that terribly, but you know what I mean? And 0:05:37.510 --> 0:05:41.110 just try and answer some misconceptions. Just be like, hey, 0:05:41.170 --> 0:05:43.030 I've noticed that you're not putting me on X, Y, 0:05:43.150 --> 0:05:46.060 and Z. I'm actually keen and available for X. Y 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.919 and Z might be a bit tricky right now as 0:05:47.980 --> 0:05:50.560 I'm a progressing with this or slowly returning to work, 0:05:50.940 --> 0:05:52.979 but X, I'm all in for. And also, I am 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.060 available at this time when you think I'm not. That 0:05:55.110 --> 0:05:57.550 is a work day for me, whatever it is. I 0:05:57.570 --> 0:06:00.150 would address those in a very neutral, factual way. 0:06:00.350 --> 0:06:00.490 Yeah. 0:06:00.910 --> 0:06:04.300 So then at least you're making it very clear where 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.260 your boundaries lie. To play devil's advocate, they might be 0:06:07.339 --> 0:06:10.340 trying to protect your boundaries and they might be– thinking, well, 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.779 this is a mom slowly returning to a role and 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.370 we need to protect her. So you might just have 0:06:15.410 --> 0:06:18.250 to be a bit more forward in how you identify 0:06:18.310 --> 0:06:20.010 what it is you want to do, where you want 0:06:20.070 --> 0:06:22.710 extra responsibility and where you are and aren't available. 0:06:22.890 --> 0:06:23.089 Yeah. 0:06:23.350 --> 0:06:26.270 And to Lou's point, what often happens is that there's 0:06:26.290 --> 0:06:30.600 this assumption that managers should organize a career conversation or 0:06:30.660 --> 0:06:33.560 a development plan or perhaps a check-in or KPIs or 0:06:33.580 --> 0:06:34.479 whatever that might look like. 0:06:35.390 --> 0:06:37.170 Often that doesn't happen. So it's really on you. 0:06:37.710 --> 0:06:39.830 So all of these things that you're feeling that might 0:06:39.850 --> 0:06:42.790 not be what other people are thinking. So again, organize 0:06:42.810 --> 0:06:44.940 a one-on-one and say, Hey, do you know what? I've 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.260 been back for three months. This is what I'm noticing. 0:06:47.300 --> 0:06:48.779 This is how I'm feeling. These are the projects that 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.760 I'd like to work on. And here's an example of 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:52.740 where I'd like to be the next year. 0:06:53.220 --> 0:06:53.420 Yeah. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:54.920 How can we make that happen? Like you really do 0:06:54.940 --> 0:06:56.810 have to lead it. The other thing that I would 0:06:56.850 --> 0:07:00.970 say is ambition and availability. It's so fascinating because I 0:07:01.029 --> 0:07:03.310 find ambition for me fluctuates almost daily. 0:07:03.390 --> 0:07:03.990 Yeah. Same. 0:07:04.510 --> 0:07:07.400 It's, And odd things, there's some days where I'm like, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.180 why not on that project? Like I want to be 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:10.840 fucking in that. And then I sit in the first 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:12.840 meetings for the first week and I'm like, fuck, you know, 0:07:12.860 --> 0:07:13.240 like I don't. 0:07:13.170 --> 0:07:14.620 Really want to do this project. This is as good 0:07:14.690 --> 0:07:16.700 as I thought it was. 0:07:16.750 --> 0:07:19.270 This is requiring so much more work than I'd anticipated. 0:07:19.290 --> 0:07:22.330 I don't know that it's for me. And it's okay 0:07:22.350 --> 0:07:24.790 to feel like that. It's also okay to feel like 0:07:25.370 --> 0:07:28.690 sometimes you really want to push in your career or 0:07:28.710 --> 0:07:29.890 you want to extend yourself. 0:07:29.910 --> 0:07:31.590 Like maybe your kid is really sleeping well. 0:07:32.060 --> 0:07:34.369 And you've got a great support network and your husband 0:07:34.410 --> 0:07:36.050 can do some pickups and drop offs or whatever that 0:07:36.070 --> 0:07:38.230 might look like. And there are other times when you're like, 0:07:38.710 --> 0:07:40.920 if you have family drama, your kid's not sleeping and 0:07:40.940 --> 0:07:42.100 you're like, fuck this. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.460 Yeah. This is too hard. I want to step back 0:07:44.500 --> 0:07:45.080 a little bit. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:50.140 You do not have to have a linear career progression line. 0:07:50.580 --> 0:07:53.790 The notion of comparison I think is interesting because as 0:07:53.830 --> 0:07:56.850 humans we compare every day. 100%. And all of us 0:07:56.890 --> 0:07:59.910 keep saying comparison is a thief of joy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 0:08:00.390 --> 0:08:03.440 But innately you're going to do it. Yeah. So- That's 0:08:03.450 --> 0:08:06.040 the human condition. Yeah, my only advice is try your best. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:07.000 Not to, yeah. 0:08:07.220 --> 0:08:10.260 Because there'll be people that have more high-flying careers than 0:08:10.300 --> 0:08:13.020 you that are both parents and aren't, that are jealous 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.520 of where you are at with your journey. Likewise, you're 0:08:16.540 --> 0:08:19.520 feeling that sort of comparison trap with other people. I also, 0:08:19.580 --> 0:08:21.880 I think what was pointed out is so important to 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.740 not assume that they know where you want to go 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.500 and really call it out. But also have a little 0:08:26.690 --> 0:08:28.850 like chat to your ego too. Like you might actually 0:08:28.890 --> 0:08:31.670 be doing amazing work. And everything's going well. 0:08:31.850 --> 0:08:33.890 Yes. If you're really not progressing and it's hurting you, 0:08:34.050 --> 0:08:36.660 absolutely go for it. But also just try and figure 0:08:36.700 --> 0:08:37.500 out what it is that you. 0:08:37.420 --> 0:08:40.180 Actually want before you sort of, I guess, open up 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:41.990 this conversation so you can be super clear on it. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.699 And it changes the more kids you have, I'm telling you. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.870 I felt so ambitious and so driven to climb that 0:08:49.910 --> 0:08:52.929 ladder after Sienna, more than ever, more than I have 0:08:52.970 --> 0:08:54.950 ever in my entire career. Like to date, I was 0:08:54.990 --> 0:08:58.490 like the first six months back at work after maternity 0:08:58.510 --> 0:08:59.610 leave from Sienna, I was like, I'm ready. 0:09:00.030 --> 0:09:02.060 Like I am so motivated. Yeah. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.120 And then I had Zave and it's like I just 0:09:04.140 --> 0:09:06.439 didn't have enough time or I felt really stressed about 0:09:06.460 --> 0:09:07.040 getting shit done. 0:09:07.300 --> 0:09:09.500 And you were more sleep deprived that time around. Oh, yeah. 0:09:09.620 --> 0:09:11.589 And so that kind of diminished. Yeah. 0:09:11.790 --> 0:09:13.670 And then with Gus, I kind of got to this 0:09:13.690 --> 0:09:16.050 stage where I was like, I'm so much more interested 0:09:16.070 --> 0:09:16.450 in people. 0:09:16.470 --> 0:09:18.030 Like I don't want to go to work. 0:09:18.510 --> 0:09:21.079 And even if I'm like doing well and getting paid 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.800 good money and making, what's it called. 0:09:24.820 --> 0:09:26.920 Paving the path to climb. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:27.260 Yeah. 0:09:27.500 --> 0:09:29.920 If I have shit people that aren't recognizing the stuff 0:09:29.940 --> 0:09:32.559 that I'm doing or aren't greeting me with a smile 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.760 when I go into the office, I don't want it. Yeah. 0:09:34.780 --> 0:09:36.600 Like it's not worth it. So your idea of time 0:09:36.700 --> 0:09:39.600 and how you spend it has almost changed. It's completely changed. 0:09:39.740 --> 0:09:42.590 And for you and maybe your peers, like maybe there's 0:09:42.620 --> 0:09:45.170 other people, you're all going to have different experiences of 0:09:45.510 --> 0:09:46.309 how you're feeling. 0:09:46.309 --> 0:09:47.920 100%. I couldn't agree more. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.520 And I think it's just sort of the idea of 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.510 getting really clear on what it is you want, what 0:09:51.550 --> 0:09:54.170 you feel like you're lacking and to go after it 0:09:54.190 --> 0:09:56.750 and speak about it just very factually with the person 0:09:56.850 --> 0:09:57.589 that you're reporting to. 0:09:57.830 --> 0:09:59.650 Yeah. But we could do a whole episode on this. Yeah, 0:09:59.690 --> 0:10:02.449 we could. Because no one's going to have the same experience. 0:10:02.500 --> 0:10:02.630 Yeah. 0:10:03.150 --> 0:10:03.730 That's the thing. 0:10:03.809 --> 0:10:06.250 Like even within kids, like it's not even just the 0:10:06.340 --> 0:10:09.020 act of growing your family. It's like, because as we're saying, 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.979 every kid is so different at different times as well. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.160 Like your friend that was nailing it a year ago 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:16.620 that you haven't checked in on in a while, like 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.699 a distant friend might be having a much harder year 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.309 this year, you know, like it's always ebbing and flowing. 0:10:22.050 --> 0:10:24.370 One other thing I'm going to say just before I 0:10:24.690 --> 0:10:27.530 finish this is when you said where I might be 0:10:27.570 --> 0:10:29.990 now had things looked different, let it go. 0:10:30.110 --> 0:10:32.750 Yeah, don't even. I couldn't agree more. There is no point. 0:10:32.790 --> 0:10:34.670 There is nothing more frustrating than hindsight. 0:10:34.790 --> 0:10:36.559 I'd be such a successful journalist right now if I 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.760 didn't have kids. I'm saying that with a wink, like 0:10:38.900 --> 0:10:39.760 as if I know that. 0:10:39.820 --> 0:10:42.160 This is exactly what I mean. This is exactly what happens. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.099 And women do this far more than men because I 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.700 really never look at men going, oh, if I'd only 0:10:47.780 --> 0:10:50.480 just done that, I would have bloody had a football career. 0:10:50.500 --> 0:10:52.280 You know how they've got that meme going at the moment? 0:10:52.330 --> 0:10:54.729 Yes. If I hadn't have broken my leg when I 0:10:54.750 --> 0:10:57.449 was five. I would have been in a successful AFL football. 0:10:57.470 --> 0:10:58.690 If I was a foot taller, I would have been 0:10:58.710 --> 0:10:59.089 a netball player. 0:10:59.130 --> 0:10:59.370 Like Jesus. 0:10:59.390 --> 0:11:00.870 Do you know what I mean? There's so many things 0:11:00.890 --> 0:11:02.570 that you can do. Yeah, it's actually not worth it. 0:11:02.670 --> 0:11:04.470 It's not worth it. Drop it. 0:11:04.510 --> 0:11:08.010 Because where you are now is exactly where the universe 0:11:08.030 --> 0:11:09.890 has put you. It's not necessarily where you're supposed to be. 0:11:09.929 --> 0:11:12.689 I don't agree with that. But you can't change it 0:11:12.750 --> 0:11:15.090 at this point in time. You can in an hour's 0:11:15.130 --> 0:11:18.030 time or two hours' time, but you can't reflect backwards. 0:11:18.090 --> 0:11:20.090 So ditch it. I couldn't agree more. 0:11:20.110 --> 0:11:20.329 Ditch it. 0:11:20.929 --> 0:11:24.210 Question three from Jade. I was thinking tonight about work travel. 0:11:24.550 --> 0:11:27.630 I realized that my time away, quote unquote, from the kids, bedtime, 0:11:27.670 --> 0:11:30.120 et cetera, is work related because my role is corporate. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.520 Whereas for my wife, two-month family, I birthed both kids, 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.640 any time away is social. This results in me having 0:11:36.740 --> 0:11:38.920 more time away because I have to do it for work, 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:40.400 but less social time. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.080 And is work travel actually social time? Is it really 0:11:43.140 --> 0:11:44.800 time off? Oh my God, I have so many opinions 0:11:44.820 --> 0:11:44.960 on this. 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.449 I have so many conflicting opinions on this. Like I 0:11:47.470 --> 0:11:48.510 could go in a million directions. 0:11:48.530 --> 0:11:49.949 You start. Yeah. Really? 0:11:49.970 --> 0:11:50.430 Yeah. 0:11:50.670 --> 0:11:53.730 Okay. So this is like a therapeutic session for me. 0:11:54.130 --> 0:11:56.770 As the partner who gets left at home a lot. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.160 Yes. So my husband travels a lot for work and 0:12:01.580 --> 0:12:04.800 I have found it really difficult not to be resentful, 0:12:04.820 --> 0:12:06.160 if I'm quite honest, and a bitch. 0:12:06.490 --> 0:12:07.110 Like I have to. 0:12:07.550 --> 0:12:11.710 fully empathize with your partner Jade because it is so 0:12:11.770 --> 0:12:14.010 tough when you see somebody and I know it's work 0:12:14.330 --> 0:12:15.929 don't get me wrong and I've been in a situation 0:12:15.950 --> 0:12:17.190 where I've traveled for work and I thought oh my 0:12:17.230 --> 0:12:19.479 god I cannot be fudged to go to this dinner 0:12:19.500 --> 0:12:21.120 with a bunch of people I have no interest in 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.359 talking to yeah and like being all like happy and 0:12:23.380 --> 0:12:25.220 then you go home you're like oh I just need 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:25.620 to go to bed. 0:12:25.660 --> 0:12:26.920 My soul's drained. Yes. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.120 But when my own troubles work, I do think to myself, 0:12:30.420 --> 0:12:31.459 and I know this is wrong, but I'm going to 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.829 say it. How lucky are you that you don't have 0:12:34.850 --> 0:12:37.670 to do the morning routine, that you can get a 0:12:37.790 --> 0:12:40.109 full night's sleep, that the worst thing you might feel 0:12:40.330 --> 0:12:41.250 in the morning is a hangover. 0:12:41.490 --> 0:12:43.130 You're not getting woken up. You're not sleeping next to 0:12:43.150 --> 0:12:45.330 two toddlers. Yeah. You do not have to. 0:12:45.350 --> 0:12:48.270 Do the washing or the cleaning or any of the 0:12:48.390 --> 0:12:50.030 additional mental load that comes with having children. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.609 You can just do your work and go to bed. 0:12:52.630 --> 0:12:56.930 And the minute Ryan gets home, quite often, I'm like, 0:12:57.610 --> 0:12:57.970 I'm out. 0:12:58.190 --> 0:12:58.510 Yes. 0:12:58.830 --> 0:13:01.010 I need my own time. 100%. 0:13:01.010 --> 0:13:03.950 But in the same breath, because I've been doing this 0:13:03.970 --> 0:13:06.130 for such a long time and he's always traveled, I 0:13:06.250 --> 0:13:09.429 do understand where your partner is coming from because work. 0:13:10.210 --> 0:13:10.950 Is work. 0:13:11.250 --> 0:13:13.410 She might get a good night's sleep. I'm not going 0:13:13.429 --> 0:13:16.710 to lie because she doesn't have any distractions. But for 0:13:16.770 --> 0:13:21.510 most people, you're on from seven till seven and you're 0:13:21.570 --> 0:13:23.350 not getting a brain break in the way that you 0:13:23.390 --> 0:13:24.150 might think she is. 0:13:24.390 --> 0:13:26.949 Yeah, I agree. It's so tricky. 0:13:27.150 --> 0:13:29.320 And I feel like as you're sort of touched on, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.720 you're almost like looking to balance the scales a bit 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.079 if that person has been away for work, because you've 0:13:35.100 --> 0:13:38.040 been parenting full-time yeah and doing paid work on top 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:38.920 of that and don't get me. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.140 Wrong you deserve the break like you deserve the social 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.119 time and you deserve the massage or the whatever it 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:45.739 is that's going to make you feel like you're having 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.140 some downtime yourself because you don't get downtime yeah when 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.870 you're a solo parent you just do not but I 0:13:50.950 --> 0:13:54.709 do think that underlying resentment that perhaps like I definitely 0:13:54.750 --> 0:13:56.550 feel it so I'm assuming that you do in some 0:13:56.590 --> 0:13:59.390 ways too and It has to have a broader conversation 0:13:59.429 --> 0:14:02.870 around it because unless you fully understand what their schedule 0:14:02.890 --> 0:14:04.890 looks like, it can feel like they're having a shitload 0:14:04.929 --> 0:14:06.570 of free time and having drinks at the bar. 0:14:06.910 --> 0:14:08.130 And that feels terrible. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.860 And that social time is probably less, I would imagine, 0:14:10.980 --> 0:14:13.280 than your work trips, which I think is an important distinction. 0:14:13.300 --> 0:14:15.340 Because like a dinner out isn't the same as, oh, 0:14:15.380 --> 0:14:17.620 I was lumped with the kids for three days while 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.080 you were away for work. 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:19.380 Yes. 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.260 I've been having this thing lately because I think Hayes 0:14:22.330 --> 0:14:24.870 has probably been bearing more of the brunt of me 0:14:24.890 --> 0:14:27.730 being busy with work and social life where I've been 0:14:27.770 --> 0:14:30.130 feeling like, oh, fuck, by the time I work and 0:14:30.150 --> 0:14:32.250 do work events and like whatever you and I have 0:14:32.270 --> 0:14:34.350 had on, which has been heaps, I feel like I 0:14:34.390 --> 0:14:37.080 actually can't really justify much social time because Hayes is 0:14:37.220 --> 0:14:39.840 already in the negative. So I empathise with what you're 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.160 saying because you either feel like you're at work or 0:14:43.220 --> 0:14:45.800 racing home to your family to relieve your wife. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:47.980 And so I completely empathise with that. 0:14:48.770 --> 0:14:51.000 And I think you should definitely, as Loz said, still 0:14:51.020 --> 0:14:53.000 allow time for yourself to be away from both things, 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.440 paid work and the parenting work, especially giving your birth 0:14:56.460 --> 0:14:58.400 to both kids. I understand that that's a layer too. 0:14:58.740 --> 0:15:01.020 But having said that, I feel sympathy for both. Do 0:15:01.060 --> 0:15:03.570 you know what it is? Listen to the Ashley Brooks 0:15:03.610 --> 0:15:06.710 Garrett episode recently that went out because she was saying 0:15:06.750 --> 0:15:08.910 that sometimes she actually does feel sorry for her husband 0:15:09.210 --> 0:15:11.350 because he can't win because he works in a workplace 0:15:11.390 --> 0:15:13.130 that isn't Flexible. 0:15:13.190 --> 0:15:13.390 Yeah. 0:15:13.510 --> 0:15:14.110 Isn't easy. 0:15:14.170 --> 0:15:16.570 He's always the first to leave. He's always disappointing people 0:15:16.870 --> 0:15:18.910 no matter where he is. Leaves the office at five. 0:15:18.990 --> 0:15:21.590 Everyone else leaves at 10. He's disappointing everyone. His wife's 0:15:21.630 --> 0:15:24.410 desperate for him to come home. Ashley, he's disappointing her. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.240 She was like, he can't win either way. I would 0:15:26.260 --> 0:15:28.040 listen to that because I feel like you're in that 0:15:28.060 --> 0:15:29.920 position where you feel like you can't really win and 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:31.420 therefore it's really hard to get a break. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:31.720 Yeah. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.530 I think unfortunately- This is the society we live in 0:15:35.550 --> 0:15:37.730 that's so busy and everyone's just doing their best to 0:15:37.830 --> 0:15:40.450 try and get a break. Yes, you deserve one. But 0:15:40.730 --> 0:15:43.170 I also empathize with both you and your partner here. 0:15:43.210 --> 0:15:44.930 Yeah, I am also going to add a little bit 0:15:44.970 --> 0:15:47.150 of context and I don't know if this will help you. 0:15:47.620 --> 0:15:50.040 So because my partner does travel a lot for work, 0:15:50.060 --> 0:15:53.220 I have a lot of visibility over like where his 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:53.600 work is. 0:15:53.580 --> 0:15:55.300