1
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

3
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm Sean Aylmer. Today we're talking about AI, but we're

4
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 1: going beyond the surface level improvements to productivity. I'm joined

5
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,759
Speaker 1: in the studio by two leaders in this space who

6
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,639
Speaker 1: together can develop a blueprint on how the public and

7
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: private sectors can collaborate to make the most of the

8
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: AI opportunity. Victor Dominello is the CEO of the Future

9
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: Government Institute. He was previously the New South Wales Minister

10
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 1: for Customer Service and Digital Government and an expert in

11
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: government and technology reform. Victor, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

12
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: We're also joined by Ivan Zau. Ivan is the founder

13
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 1: and CEO of AI company Notion, a product that I

14
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: use in fact in another business. He's visiting Australia at

15
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 1: the moment and joins us in the studio. Ivan, Welcome

16
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,320
Speaker 1: to the podcast.

17
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

18
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 1: Starting with you tell me the Notion's story, where it

19
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 1: came from, what you do, how it works.

20
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: We are a companies started in San Francisco. That's the

21
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 2: idea de kay Ago where the last seven years where

22
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 2: a product market fit. The problem we're trying to solve

23
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 2: that people have too many tools for doing work, doing

24
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 2: office work, knowledge work. There's document there's notes taking in

25
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 2: their project management. They're scattered all over the places. And

26
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 2: right now there's even more AI tool coming to the market.

27
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 2: So our goal is to consolidate into one place and

28
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 2: make it very easy for you to do work and

29
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,200
Speaker 2: make it safe for AI to unlock the power of

30
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 2: AI for you.

31
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: Is that the ultimate goal of II because at the moment,

32
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose pre II one had apps that

33
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,840
Speaker 1: you'd use for different things. With II, there are different

34
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 1: ways that you access It is the sort of the

35
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: Holy Griial, the ability to have one app or one

36
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: software that actually allows you to do it all.

37
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 2: Usually fewer. The better points solution has this place because

38
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 2: they can find product market fit easier, easier to find

39
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 2: a target audience through the Internet. The downside of too

40
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,880
Speaker 2: many fragmented points solutions. It's number one for humans. You

41
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 2: need to jump between different apps, so you're a tentional

42
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,440
Speaker 2: spread different software tools and more recently with AI likes

43
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 2: all the context to be together, so you probably heard

44
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: the term context window air like the context. Just another

45
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 2: fancy were to say data, all the data to be together,

46
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 2: so yeah, I can make sense of it and do

47
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 2: work for you.

48
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: Is there a way of getting the size of the prize?

49
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 1: In II?

50
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 2: It's think about Industrial revolution? What's the size of industrial revolution?

51
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 2: It's everything that modern world is made of. So in

52
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,959
Speaker 2: some sense we're in the third Industrial revolution with information

53
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 2: with AI. Right, So it's hard to gauge how large

54
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,959
Speaker 2: the size of the price is, but it's going to

55
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:45,640
Speaker 2: be gigantic.

56
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Victor, you have had a lot of experience, particularly

57
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 1: digitalization technology, streamlining the way government works. What is the

58
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 1: size of the prize, but also what's the cost of AI?

59
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 3: Oh? In terms of the size of the prize, AI

60
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 3: is basically uning to disrupt pretty much everything in the

61
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,920
Speaker 3: knowledge economy, and that is you know, as a very

62
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 3: big horizontal, but then you put robotics on top of

63
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 3: that in the next decade in particular, and then you're

64
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 3: going to go into some deep verticals as well. Like

65
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 3: it's significant. I was at the productivity roundtable with the

66
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 3: federal government recently, and you know, the federal government, to

67
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 3: their credit, they said, we're not going to get any

68
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 3: more productivity gains with more pen and paper, We're going

69
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,320
Speaker 3: to have to use tech, and again, AI is the

70
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 3: greater enable if we use it safely in a trustworthy way.

71
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 3: The price is huge. Every day I'm waking up and

72
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 3: I'm seeing new advancements in medicine. You know Huntington's disease,

73
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 3: for example, they're using AI now to break through that

74
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 3: via Crispa. These things were not even conceivable four or

75
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 3: five years ago. They're alone ten years ago. So what's

76
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 3: the size of the prize? Profound productivity dividends, but more importantly,

77
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 3: profound reduction in suffering and improving in quality of life?

78
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 1: What about the cost? I'm not talking about jobs, because

79
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: I'm a great believer. We don't lose jobs. In fact,

80
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 1: technology tends to create jobs. They're just in different spaces.

81
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: Are they costs of societal costs? Yeah?

82
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,520
Speaker 3: Like I'm an ultimate optimist, but look, I think there

83
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 3: is a there's a risk that it's going to be

84
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 3: very disruptive. So it's going to I think the waters

85
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 3: are going to be choppy, particularly over the next decade,

86
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 3: as waves and waves and waves of disruption coming place.

87
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 3: It's just question how resilient we are to bounce back

88
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 3: and to find the next groove to your point. Now,

89
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,119
Speaker 3: ultimately I think we're end up in a much better place.

90
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 3: But how do we ride those waves of disruption in

91
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,599
Speaker 3: a fair equitable way throughout society. Then there's obviously the

92
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 3: huge cost of energy. But again, as an optimist, I'm

93
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 3: thinking that AI will help us drive down or find

94
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 3: new ways to improve energy, whether it's so all the

95
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 3: panels or even fusion. In the next decade, I'm hoping

96
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:20,600
Speaker 3: that we'll get there.

97
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 1: I haven't Australia as a country. What do we need

98
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,599
Speaker 1: to do? And let's start with skills. What skills do

99
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 1: we need in the next ten years to be successful

100
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 1: in AI because it's going to be a very competitive

101
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 1: marketplace because every country is having this conversation.

102
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I I agree with Victoria that will be

103
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,320
Speaker 2: a bit choppy. So if you think about what AA does,

104
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:46,160
Speaker 2: it's the classic software sort of remove some super repetitive work,

105
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 2: like you don't no longer need to run peril with envelopes,

106
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 2: press the button runs the peril. It can do some

107
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 2: of fuzzy repetitive work still busy work, right, So and

108
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 2: some people's job will be largely it's very busy work.

109
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,160
Speaker 2: People job a little busy work, but a I can

110
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: do more of that, and those people need to adjust

111
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,039
Speaker 2: the way we think about it. Inside notion is like

112
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,920
Speaker 2: one person equal to their capabilities plus their taste and

113
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 2: plus their agency. So capability is what you can do,

114
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,720
Speaker 2: mental calculus, how much knowledge you remember, how you got

115
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 2: a accounting especially in some simes, AI really level the

116
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,599
Speaker 2: plane fail of capability, make everyone almost like a pseudo programmer.

117
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 2: Allow people to write pretty well now with the help

118
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,160
Speaker 2: of AI, but AI doesn't quite do as much. It's

119
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,360
Speaker 2: give you a taste, like what's your point of view

120
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 2: of the world, what would you like to do, what's

121
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 2: your opinion, what's the right architecture of something? And lastly

122
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,159
Speaker 2: it's agency. Do you have the will and curiosity and

123
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,320
Speaker 2: drive to make something happen? I would say, as AI

124
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 2: leveling a play fail of capability, that means there's more

125
00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 2: requirement for people to dial up their tastes and diet

126
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 2: up their agency, and school doesn't teach those things as

127
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 2: much today. I wish they do, but I think the

128
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 2: younger generation that has naturally had more curiosity, more drive,

129
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 2: more agency, I think they will do fine.

130
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean just following that through. So in some way,

131
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: you know creatives arts sort of thinking outside the box,

132
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: that whole kind of idea potentially could boom in an

133
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 1: AI world. The capability is matched in some ways.

134
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I want to separate our creativity from

135
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 2: from taste. Creativity is kind of like people always think

136
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 2: drawing is creativity, but AI image model can draw better

137
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 2: than human can, right, I would say in my definition

138
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 2: is the point of view of the world, the one

139
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 2: direction you want. You want to create a piece of

140
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 2: r or piece of business that's unique in the world.

141
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 2: That's if you get something writing by Chagi can feel

142
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 2: like someone just round the mill written person written that.

143
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 2: But you have a new, unique idea that you want

144
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 2: pushed out. That's your taste. I think that will be valued.

145
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 2: And if you hold onto your tasts, then you need

146
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 2: your agency and drive to make that happen. That's innately

147
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 2: human and that AA cannot do that today.

148
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 1: It's interesting think that how does the government set itself

149
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 1: set us up for success in this How much is

150
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 1: it about public sector and how much is it about

151
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: private sector.

152
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 3: I think that collaboration is critical, Like if government does

153
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 3: it all, then you know we've seen what happens in

154
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 3: North Korea about that, Like, we need the engine room

155
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 3: of the economy is always going to be the private sector,

156
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 3: so we need that to be enabled. We need government

157
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 3: to be the good elephant in the room, the one

158
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 3: that's moving, rather than the slow or the rampant one.

159
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 3: And I think you know, the most important thing governments

160
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 3: can do is to create standards and structures. So it's

161
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:58,760
Speaker 3: a genuine ecosystem play. So for example, as Ivan was explaining,

162
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 3: like what's the government's role in that journey?

163
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 1: Like in my.

164
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 3: Personal view, we're pupils at school, but we're students for life,

165
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,960
Speaker 3: So you know, we get some credentials along the way,

166
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,360
Speaker 3: Like I'm a lawyer, hard credential. I might pivot and

167
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,320
Speaker 3: then become an engineer, a hard credential teacher. But there's

168
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 3: a lot of soft credentials and micro credentials that should

169
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 3: be part that you're put in your backpack as you're

170
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 3: becoming that student for life. So how does government create

171
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,959
Speaker 3: that broad environment so that whatever the credentials I've got

172
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,679
Speaker 3: in here, I can share to you, you accept them,

173
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 3: acknowledge them, and then can put some AI over the

174
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,839
Speaker 3: top of them and say she's victor. You've got all

175
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 3: these skills hard soft micro You've just been disrupted because

176
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 3: of the choppy water. With two or three little courses,

177
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 3: we can put you into this area that's going to

178
00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,319
Speaker 3: be laden with jobs. So I think that's a big play.

179
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 3: The government can help put that architecture together, and I've

180
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,839
Speaker 3: seen some governments do that, Singapore and Estonia or the

181
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 3: two sort of leading in that area.

182
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the big challenge for a short term? So,

183
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,199
Speaker 1: I mean I'm thinking of cyber crime or data sovereignty

184
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 1: or privacy, that sort of thing. Are they all just

185
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 1: sort of bumps in the road that will come to

186
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: terms with ultimately and appreciate the benefits. And I mean

187
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: they may not actually be negatives in the long run anyway,

188
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,360
Speaker 1: because we may solve some of those issues. I'm just

189
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 1: interested in the next few years, what is the debate

190
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 1: going to be about.

191
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 2: I think that near term, the hyper it's higher than

192
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,920
Speaker 2: the reality, especially within companies. We talked with a lot

193
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 2: of customer In fact, this trick I'm here meeting many

194
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,120
Speaker 2: customers actually reference something from Higher Business Review recently. Eighty

195
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,720
Speaker 2: some percent that the executives think are going to drasticly

196
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 2: change their business, but only a few percent that actually

197
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 2: see it change today, even though we've been having AIR

198
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 2: for a couple of years. So there's a gap, and

199
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 2: the gap at least in the company settings in sometimes

200
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 2: maybe the government setting is the context and the data

201
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 2: is fragmented. Right, you don't have you don't have context

202
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 2: being one one together, one place together. Before with Human

203
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 2: you can copypaste from one app to another app. Human

204
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 2: are the glue workers. Now AI can do that as

205
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 2: easily as Human. I cannot jump between different apps. Therefore

206
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 2: I can do actually cannot do much yet, right, So

207
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 2: that's a near term challenge and in fact something notion

208
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 2: you're trying to work on in the.

209
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,720
Speaker 1: Privacyere internation, because that's primarily what you're trying to do,

210
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:37,199
Speaker 1: isn't it.

211
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 2: That's why we feel kind of lucky that all the

212
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 2: things we've been building before AI set up well, set

213
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 2: up really well for the AI world in terms of

214
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 2: the user side.

215
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 3: Well.

216
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,080
Speaker 2: To learn how to use this kind of new type

217
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 2: of software requires training, right, So like you know, like

218
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,160
Speaker 2: every time you interact with it you might get a

219
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,679
Speaker 2: different answer. It just takes some times to get used to.

220
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 2: It's almost interact with the human on the other side,

221
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,160
Speaker 2: take some time to know how to get the most

222
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 2: out of that. In fact, we think it's also on

223
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 2: the side of product providers like Notion to make the

224
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 2: software as familiar as possible embedd in people's workflow, rather

225
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 2: than people have to retrain going through this. You imagine

226
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,679
Speaker 2: you use Notion for writing, Well, we have AI right

227
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 2: where you do writing, so you don't have to use

228
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 2: a different product to copypaste between them. From me out

229
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,560
Speaker 2: the society level, I think encouraging people to not just

230
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,079
Speaker 2: to ask better, learn how to be more curious, ask

231
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 2: better questions because a I can give you a better

232
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 2: answer than Google can already you don't. We're not short

233
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 2: of capability, we're answered, we're short of asking the right questions.

234
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:40,439
Speaker 2: Having a point of view, have.

235
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: A team, and I've had big arguments with Notion. I said,

236
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 1: hold on, that's you know, you're being a bit hard there,

237
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, sorry about that. This is what

238
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 1: It is quite funny how you can actually have an

239
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: argument with the II provider famil it is nation and

240
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 1: I don't like the why you're doing that, and I

241
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,160
Speaker 1: might apologize and do something different, but it is true.

242
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 1: The more you do that, the better outcome you get.

243
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: Well you you as a user, You've got a taste

244
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 2: of what this thing works like, right, and so oftentimes

245
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 2: it doesn't work the first time you ask, one more

246
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 2: time you works the second time. So you'll build your

247
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 2: intelationship with the product.

248
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: What I found, I mean it's not a human, right,

249
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,600
Speaker 1: but actually thinking of it like a human I actually

250
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: find beneficial because then you enunciate.

251
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 2: It's the closest thank you to a human type of software.

252
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: We created fantastic. I'm a victim. Thank you for talking

253
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: to Fear and Greed Q and a thank you thanks

254
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,200
Speaker 1: for that was Victor Domini, CEO of the Future Government

255
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 1: Institute and Ivan's our CEO of Notion. If you've got

256
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,880
Speaker 1: something you'd like to know, then sayd through your question

257
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,559
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or at feron greed dot com

258
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: dot you. I'm sure, I all my this is Bear

259
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 1: and Greed.

260
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 3: You and da