WEBVTT - Pope Francis - and who will be next? 

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, February twenty four. All eyes are on Rome,

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<v Speaker 1>where eighty eight year old Pope Francis is critically ill

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<v Speaker 1>with pneumonia. Today we look at the complex legacy of

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<v Speaker 1>Francis born Joge Becoglo in Argentina, and who's positioning to

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<v Speaker 1>replace him as the leader of one and a quarter

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<v Speaker 1>billion Catholics around the world. Looking right now, that smoke

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<v Speaker 1>is now coming out of the chimney. It is oh

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<v Speaker 1>very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, we have a new pope and you can hear

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<v Speaker 2>the cheers from Saint Peter's Square out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's listen. In has the protos reactor secretive? Yes, melodramatic, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>This is how a new pope is chosen, not by

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<v Speaker 1>a ray of light from heaven, but in a long,

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<v Speaker 1>slow election by secret ballot, surrounded by politicking and lobbying

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<v Speaker 1>for the highest stakes, the guidance of more than one

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<v Speaker 1>point three billion Catholics. Only men may vote the most

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<v Speaker 1>senior cardinals from around the world, who must be under

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<v Speaker 1>eighty to get into the conclave. That's Latin for lockable room.

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<v Speaker 1>The conclave takes place in the Vatican City's Sistine Chapel,

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<v Speaker 1>where Michelangelo's hi Renaissance fresco on the ceiling shows God

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<v Speaker 1>touching the hand of Adam, the sacred and the mundane,

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<v Speaker 1>just like the work of the cardinals below. The latest

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<v Speaker 1>cinematic iagining of all this is in the movie Conclave,

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<v Speaker 1>starring Ray Fines, Stanley Tucci, and Isabella Rossellini, all swishing

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<v Speaker 1>around in robes with no makeup but still managing to

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<v Speaker 1>look glamorous.

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<v Speaker 2>What happened, they say, a heart attack?

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<v Speaker 1>Based on a Robert Harris novel. The movie is appropriately thrilling.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a conclave, alder, it's not a war.

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<v Speaker 4>It is a war, and you have to comment to a.

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<v Speaker 1>Side on screen and in real life. The factions lobby

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<v Speaker 1>for their candidates in the open, but the vote is

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<v Speaker 1>taken in strict secrecy under threat of excommunication. As each

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<v Speaker 1>round of voting concludes, ballots accounted, threaded together and then

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<v Speaker 1>burned in a stove inside the chapel for centuries. Thick

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<v Speaker 1>soot produced by these stoves caked that exquisite work by

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<v Speaker 1>Michelangelo above. Black smoke means the vote is split and

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<v Speaker 1>the cardinals must vote again, repeating the process up to

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<v Speaker 1>four times a day until a victor emerges. White smoke

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<v Speaker 1>means a new pope has been elected by a majority

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<v Speaker 1>of at least two thirds.

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<v Speaker 2>After four rounds of voting. Carnal Jorge Mario Brigoglio was

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<v Speaker 2>selected as the new pope of the Roman Catholic Church,

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<v Speaker 2>succeeding pulp Benedicta sixteenth.

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<v Speaker 1>When he was elevated to the papacy in twenty thirteen,

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<v Speaker 1>Argentinian Cardinal Jorge Begoglio became the first non European pope

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<v Speaker 1>to serve in more than a millennium. He adopted the

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<v Speaker 1>papal name Francis, after Saint Francis of Assisi. To the

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<v Speaker 1>church's progressives, he represented a new era, someone who understood

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<v Speaker 1>the challenging modern lives of its congregation. He had worked

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<v Speaker 1>as a nightclub bouncer. After all, Francis wasn't into lavish accommodation.

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<v Speaker 1>He slept not in the paper palace, but in a

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<v Speaker 1>simple motel style room, and he made the embraceive immigrants

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<v Speaker 1>and refugees a foundation of his papacy. My people are poor,

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<v Speaker 1>he said more than once, and I am one of them,

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<v Speaker 1>an nod to his modest upbringing in the suburbs of

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<v Speaker 1>Buenos Aire's. Still, progressives have been largely disappointed Francis didn't

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<v Speaker 1>push it.

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<v Speaker 3>More.

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<v Speaker 1>To some Catholic traditionalists, Francis went too far when you interview.

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<v Speaker 1>Pope Francis has discussed the possibility of relaxing the discipline

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<v Speaker 1>of priestly celibacy, recommending the church ordine married men to

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<v Speaker 1>service priests.

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<v Speaker 2>Pope Francis met with the Vatican department that he created

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<v Speaker 2>himself nine years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It is the office of the Auditor.

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<v Speaker 2>General in charge of fighting corruption and keeping tabs on finances.

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<v Speaker 1>Ope Francis says Catholic priests can now bless same sex couples,

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<v Speaker 1>but not for marriage, but no one expects this will

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<v Speaker 1>lead the Pope to reconsider women priests. Francis has said

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<v Speaker 1>that to the war is closed. In the almost twelve

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<v Speaker 1>years since Pope Francis was elected, there have been controversies.

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<v Speaker 4>The claim is explosive that Pope Francis covered up sexual

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<v Speaker 4>abuse in the American.

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<v Speaker 1>Church, and contradictions. Francis acknowledged people have a right to

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<v Speaker 1>be outraged by the Church's response to what he called

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<v Speaker 1>repulsive crimes against children. Popularity, Francis knew is fleeting shortly

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<v Speaker 1>after that white smoke rose into the air in Saint

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<v Speaker 1>Peter's Square. In twenty thirteen, he told an Argentinian radio

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<v Speaker 1>station Jesus also for a certain time was very popular,

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<v Speaker 1>and look how that turned out.

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<v Speaker 4>I think there will be a lot of people that

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<v Speaker 4>remember him as a reformist, someone who is very liberal,

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<v Speaker 4>somebody who took the church in a direction that others

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<v Speaker 4>may not have wished it to go to.

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<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Magnet is the Australia's Europe correspondent, and she's had

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<v Speaker 1>her bags packed for days, ready to rush from her

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<v Speaker 1>home in London to Rome.

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<v Speaker 4>On my computer screen at the moment, I actually have

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<v Speaker 4>the hotel booking ready to go, so that I just presend, unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 4>anyone wanting to go to Rome.

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<v Speaker 5>At the moment.

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<v Speaker 4>It is the jubilee here, which is of course a

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<v Speaker 4>year long celebration for the church, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>pilgrims are going to Rome at the moment. So accommodation

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<v Speaker 4>is very tight, and so it's very difficult to find

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<v Speaker 4>something that's one affordable and two available.

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<v Speaker 1>From the moment, Francis was admitted to hospital. Thoughts turned

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<v Speaker 1>to how he might be remembered, whether he survived this

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<v Speaker 1>battle with illness or not.

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<v Speaker 4>Will he be considered a man of his time? I'm

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<v Speaker 4>not sure. It's a very extreme position he's had for

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<v Speaker 4>the leader of the Catholic Church, and I think people

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<v Speaker 4>felt that he delved into politics more than he needed to,

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<v Speaker 4>and that he went where the church wouldn't normally go.

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<v Speaker 4>Where we're talking issues of immigration, of the environment, of

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<v Speaker 4>aspects of life that are outside of religious instructions. So

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<v Speaker 4>I think it will be interesting to see how he's remembered,

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<v Speaker 4>isn't it in the next few years, especially when politically

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<v Speaker 4>we've got so much upheaval in the world. And I

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<v Speaker 4>think that could also play a part in the election

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<v Speaker 4>of the new pope, that maybe they do want somebody

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<v Speaker 4>that's not quite so dramatic or is willing to put

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<v Speaker 4>the church in an extreme position. They really want someone

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<v Speaker 4>to take it down the middle road.

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<v Speaker 1>I think yeah. In the recent US election, he was

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<v Speaker 1>critical of both Kamala Harris for herst and on abortion

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<v Speaker 1>and Donald Trump for his stand on immigration, and in

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<v Speaker 1>fact has really slated the president for mass deportations. For

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<v Speaker 1>example of undocumented people from the United States. That's an

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<v Speaker 1>unusual level of political involvement for a pope in our

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<v Speaker 1>modern times. But of course the archetype of the scheming

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<v Speaker 1>pope being very much involved in politics is something from history,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, But I think in modern days people are looking

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<v Speaker 4>for religious instruction, not a lecture, and so they're seeking

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<v Speaker 4>guidance rather than a blanket signpost. And so I just

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<v Speaker 4>think in Rome that there really is a sweech or

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<v Speaker 4>mood at the moment to not be following Pope Francis

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<v Speaker 4>with someone in the same vein, and some of the

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<v Speaker 4>people that Pope Francis elected have a more conservative bent

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<v Speaker 4>than what perhaps he may have expected.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up what a new leader could mean for the church.

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<v Speaker 1>About fourteen days after the death or resignation of a pope,

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<v Speaker 1>a conclave is called okay jack. So who's next?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, there's about a dozen front runners, but I think

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<v Speaker 4>that the main one at the moment. In Italy they're

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<v Speaker 4>called papabilli as well, so all the papabilly are maneuvering

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<v Speaker 4>at the moment. So there's an Italian cardinal and Pietro

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<v Speaker 4>Paroline now he's the Vatican Secretary of State, and so

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<v Speaker 4>he knows all the secrets for some significant amount of time,

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<v Speaker 4>all the skeletons, and there's a reason that he's a

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<v Speaker 4>front runner because he's considered to be a steady hand.

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<v Speaker 1>Pietro Paoline is Pope Francis's chief advisor and he's been

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<v Speaker 1>his mistry advocating for climate change mitigation around the world.

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<v Speaker 3>We have to really to change our way of living,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is the task interested by God to the

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<v Speaker 3>human kind when he created him.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's also the Philippines Cardinal Louis Antonio Tagel, he's

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<v Speaker 4>also fairly moderate.

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<v Speaker 2>Children.

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<v Speaker 4>What do you see in your parents? A gift or

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<v Speaker 4>an atm card?

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<v Speaker 5>Parents?

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<v Speaker 4>Parents, what do you see in your children? A gift

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<v Speaker 4>or a burden?

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<v Speaker 5>Priests and deacons, what do you see in your bishops?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry. We've got Cardinal Peter Urdo from Hungary. Now

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<v Speaker 4>he was a very close friend of Cardinal George pell

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<v Speaker 4>he's very pop pillar amongst all of the cardinals. And

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<v Speaker 4>then you've got people like will the church go and

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<v Speaker 4>elect someone who's from the Congo Fridolin and Bongo is

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<v Speaker 4>somebody who's he's the president of the African and Madagascar Symposium.

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<v Speaker 4>So he has control or authority of a significant area

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<v Speaker 4>of the world. But he's also quite politically outspoken, so

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know whether the cardinals will turn to him.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure he is being named as someone who's

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<v Speaker 4>one of the front runners. And then Robert Sarah of Guinea.

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<v Speaker 4>He's also very conservative.

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<v Speaker 1>Cardinal Sarah has railed against gender ideology, abortion and euphanasia.

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<v Speaker 5>If we pass laws destroy an innocence shaild in the womb,

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<v Speaker 5>or to cut sorts the distance of a def Angeles

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<v Speaker 5>elder person, what are you there to stop men from

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<v Speaker 5>taking the life of someone considered to be an enemy

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<v Speaker 5>or a fat And.

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<v Speaker 4>So if the church was to go swing from the

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<v Speaker 4>left to the right in quite a violent way, he

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<v Speaker 4>might also be a consideration.

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<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Magne is The Australian's europe correspondent. You can get

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<v Speaker 1>all the lattest from the Vatican and the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the world right now at the Australian dot com do

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<v Speaker 1>AU