1 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:07,380 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fair & Greed daily interview, I'm Sean Aylmer. Ask 10 2 00:00:07,380 --> 00:00:10,260 Sean Aylmer: different people and you'll likely get 10 different opinions about 3 00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:13,050 Sean Aylmer: the outlook for property prices. But one thing is clear, 4 00:00:13,289 --> 00:00:16,259 Sean Aylmer: even with the recent downturn, growth in house prices in 5 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:20,040 Sean Aylmer: recent years, even recent decades has been pretty remarkable, so 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,890 Sean Aylmer: much so that many young people now find themselves priced 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,800 Sean Aylmer: out of the market, add in a rental crisis with 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,819 Sean Aylmer: surging immigration and soaring rents and the situation looks a 9 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:33,269 Sean Aylmer: little dire. Evan Thornley is an Australian entrepreneur with a 10 00:00:33,269 --> 00:00:35,729 Sean Aylmer: long track record of success, founding one of the first 11 00:00:35,729 --> 00:00:39,060 Sean Aylmer: Australian tech companies to achieve a NASDAQ listing and unicorn status, 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,810 Sean Aylmer: and then starting the world's largest early childhood education provider. 13 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:45,960 Sean Aylmer: Among many other roles, he also co- founded activist network, 14 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:48,540 Sean Aylmer: Get Up and been a politician as well. Evan's now 15 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:51,509 Sean Aylmer: a co- founder and executive chair of LongView, a residential 16 00:00:51,509 --> 00:00:53,819 Sean Aylmer: property business that is setting up a shared equity fund 17 00:00:54,119 --> 00:00:57,450 Sean Aylmer: to help owner occupies get into the market. Evan Thornley, welcome 18 00:00:57,450 --> 00:00:58,290 Sean Aylmer: to Fear & Greed. 19 00:00:58,410 --> 00:00:59,850 Evan Thornley: Thanks very much, Sean. Good to be with you. 20 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,059 Sean Aylmer: So, let's just talk about the market generally before we 21 00:01:03,059 --> 00:01:06,240 Sean Aylmer: get to Longview. What's your take on the market? We've 22 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,999 Sean Aylmer: obviously seen a blip in price rises over the past 23 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,839 Sean Aylmer: 12 months. Is it something that you think can be 24 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,450 Sean Aylmer: sustainable? Can we keep a lid on prices? Do they 25 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:18,270 Sean Aylmer: revert? How do you see the big picture with the 26 00:01:18,270 --> 00:01:19,260 Sean Aylmer: Australian housing market? 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,440 Evan Thornley: Look, I think the big picture is a good point. And 28 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:26,520 Evan Thornley: Longview and PEXA, the electronic conveying giant, just published a 29 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,669 Evan Thornley: series of white papers to try and add some clarity 30 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:33,660 Evan Thornley: and factual basis for this conversation, because gallons of ink are 31 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:36,600 Evan Thornley: spilt every day on the question of house prices and 32 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,110 Evan Thornley: what drives them. And frankly, most of it is just wrong. 33 00:01:40,289 --> 00:01:43,740 Evan Thornley: It actually misunderstands the drivers. So, what I think the 34 00:01:43,740 --> 00:01:48,570 Evan Thornley: data conclusively proves, is that over the medium and long term, 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,160 Evan Thornley: house prices in Australia have gone up about 7% per annum, 36 00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:57,810 Evan Thornley: that means they've double every 10 years for 80 years, 37 00:01:58,590 --> 00:02:01,980 Evan Thornley: through interest rate cycles going up and down, through different 38 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:05,039 Evan Thornley: tax policies, through a whole lot of other things that 39 00:02:05,039 --> 00:02:08,520 Evan Thornley: are usually seen as the drivers of house prices. But 40 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,370 Evan Thornley: the things that have consistently stayed the same over that 41 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:14,970 Evan Thornley: time and are therefore the principle driver of house prices in 42 00:02:15,059 --> 00:02:18,870 Evan Thornley: the long term is very simple. We have the second 43 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:22,529 Evan Thornley: highest population growth rate in the world, and that surprises 44 00:02:22,529 --> 00:02:24,388 Evan Thornley: a lot of people. We have a much higher population 45 00:02:24,389 --> 00:02:27,780 Evan Thornley: growth rate than even say, somewhere like the United States, certainly 46 00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:31,530 Evan Thornley: than all of Europe or even, obviously China, which has 47 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:34,230 Evan Thornley: actually reached peak population, or India, or a whole lot 48 00:02:34,230 --> 00:02:37,469 Evan Thornley: of other places. And that surprises people, but that's a 49 00:02:37,469 --> 00:02:40,288 Evan Thornley: key driver. And related to that, more than half our 50 00:02:40,288 --> 00:02:44,310 Evan Thornley: population live in just three cities. And so, what that 51 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:47,940 Evan Thornley: means is, the competition for land in the suburbs of 52 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:51,570 Evan Thornley: Australia's big cities just continues to get greater and greater 53 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:54,119 Evan Thornley: and has done since before any of us were born. 54 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:57,599 Evan Thornley: And so, whilst things like interest rates or negative gearing 55 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,108 Evan Thornley: or Chinese money or supply side issues all have an impact, 56 00:03:01,109 --> 00:03:04,350 Evan Thornley: I'm not saying they don't, it's just that it's about one 57 00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:07,620 Evan Thornley: 10th as much impact as the long- term impact of 58 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:11,220 Evan Thornley: population competition for scarce suburban land. 59 00:03:12,210 --> 00:03:14,730 Sean Aylmer: And you can't see that changing, that's been going for 60 00:03:14,730 --> 00:03:17,788 Sean Aylmer: 80 years, so obviously there's a fair argument that there's 61 00:03:17,788 --> 00:03:20,970 Sean Aylmer: plenty of momentum in that. But is there a point 62 00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:23,669 Sean Aylmer: where it just gets too expensive to live in those 63 00:03:23,669 --> 00:03:27,810 Sean Aylmer: three cities, which Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane presumably, and they can't 64 00:03:27,870 --> 00:03:29,909 Sean Aylmer: build any more buildings and you kind of get to a 65 00:03:29,910 --> 00:03:31,830 Sean Aylmer: tipping point or are we a long way from that? 66 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,859 Evan Thornley: Unfortunately, in a lot of ways we're a long way 67 00:03:34,859 --> 00:03:39,720 Evan Thornley: from that. Australia's cities are still relatively undense compared to 68 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,740 Evan Thornley: Manhattan or the West End of London or many, many 69 00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:47,520 Evan Thornley: other places you can imagine, which have even higher house prices. 70 00:03:49,650 --> 00:03:52,889 Evan Thornley: Everybody talks about house prices and their relationship to people's 71 00:03:52,889 --> 00:03:56,460 Evan Thornley: incomes and obviously that's important. But I think what most 72 00:03:56,460 --> 00:03:58,110 Evan Thornley: people don't understand, is that if you look at the 73 00:03:58,110 --> 00:04:03,149 Evan Thornley: total housing market, it's more about people's wealth than their incomes. 74 00:04:04,230 --> 00:04:08,790 Evan Thornley: Early stage home buyers, obviously they need to borrow most 75 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:10,529 Evan Thornley: of the money to buy the home, and I'll come back to them 76 00:04:10,529 --> 00:04:13,290 Evan Thornley: because that's where the real challenge is, is for early stage 77 00:04:13,290 --> 00:04:15,660 Evan Thornley: home buyers. But if you look at the housing market as 78 00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:18,779 Evan Thornley: a whole, five out of six home buyers are not 79 00:04:18,779 --> 00:04:24,329 Evan Thornley: first home buyers, and the entire housing market has only 80 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:28,619 Evan Thornley: got 23% debt on it. Whilst an early stage home 81 00:04:28,619 --> 00:04:31,560 Evan Thornley: buyer might get 80 or 85% debt, when you look at the 82 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,000 Evan Thornley: whole house market, it's only 23% debt. The other 77% 83 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,178 Evan Thornley: is equity, that's wealth, it's not driven by income or 84 00:04:39,178 --> 00:04:43,289 Evan Thornley: it's certainly not today's income, maybe driven by previous year's income. So, 85 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:46,769 Evan Thornley: the whole housing market is really the wealth sink of 86 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:50,430 Evan Thornley: the economy. Everybody would like to live in a better home and 87 00:04:50,430 --> 00:04:52,950 Evan Thornley: when they have more money they buy a better home and the value 88 00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:55,890 Evan Thornley: of that home goes up and then they have more money. So, 89 00:04:56,099 --> 00:04:59,818 Evan Thornley: whilst it's really critical to understand what's making it so 90 00:04:59,820 --> 00:05:02,730 Evan Thornley: hard for first home buyers to get in and getting harder, 91 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:06,630 Evan Thornley: it's also important to understand that the factors that have 92 00:05:06,630 --> 00:05:10,919 Evan Thornley: driven the overall market are not changing and are going 93 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,359 Evan Thornley: to continue. And so, there's no reason to believe, unless 94 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,020 Evan Thornley: Australia's fundamental approach to population changes and no one on 95 00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:21,330 Evan Thornley: either side of politics is arguing for that because it's 96 00:05:21,330 --> 00:05:24,359 Evan Thornley: so central to our economy, we are going to continue 97 00:05:24,359 --> 00:05:29,279 Evan Thornley: to see the scarce value of suburban land driving prices further 98 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:29,880 Evan Thornley: and further up. 99 00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:34,979 Sean Aylmer: Is what's happening at the moment in rental prices and 100 00:05:34,980 --> 00:05:38,460 Sean Aylmer: the surge in immigration and that, it's presumably that's just 101 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:41,339 Sean Aylmer: like a spike in a longer story. Is that right? 102 00:05:41,459 --> 00:05:44,640 Evan Thornley: Well, that's right. And let's separate rental affordability, which is 103 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,029 Evan Thornley: also really important, but a different question to purchase affordability 104 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,050 Evan Thornley: and driven by different things. Rental affordability is driven by 105 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:56,428 Evan Thornley: the supply and demand for dwellings. Purchase affordability is mainly 106 00:05:56,428 --> 00:06:00,570 Evan Thornley: driven by the supply and demand for land. And note 107 00:06:00,570 --> 00:06:05,430 Evan Thornley: to self, there is no more supply, so the demand gets the prices up. So 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,560 Evan Thornley: in rental, the essential problem we've had, is we are 109 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,799 Evan Thornley: having population flooding back into the country and new stuff 110 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,020 Evan Thornley: is not coming out of the ground, and this is 111 00:06:13,020 --> 00:06:17,219 Evan Thornley: leading to a generational crisis in rental vacancy rates and 112 00:06:17,219 --> 00:06:20,430 Evan Thornley: therefore rental prices. And nothing anyone is going to do 113 00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:22,200 Evan Thornley: in the short term, to be honest, is going to 114 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,080 Evan Thornley: change that. There's nothing governments can do to wave magic 115 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,899 Evan Thornley: wand tomorrow to suddenly get more stock out there that 116 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:30,060 Evan Thornley: isn't built. So, it's really troubling. 117 00:06:30,599 --> 00:06:32,669 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Evan will be back in a minute. 118 00:06:38,909 --> 00:06:41,850 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Evan Thornley, co- founder and executive 119 00:06:41,850 --> 00:06:45,059 Sean Aylmer: chair of LongView. Okay. I want to bring it back 120 00:06:45,059 --> 00:06:47,609 Sean Aylmer: to first home buyers because you mentioned them. How do 121 00:06:47,610 --> 00:06:49,738 Sean Aylmer: we get first home buyers into the market? 122 00:06:50,580 --> 00:06:54,869 Evan Thornley: Well, let's also look at that over a 100 years, because what's 123 00:06:54,869 --> 00:06:58,650 Evan Thornley: happened is, the gap between house prices and people's incomes 124 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:03,900 Evan Thornley: has been widening for a 100 years. So, how have we 125 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,020 Evan Thornley: changed the way we bought houses? Look, our great- grandparents 126 00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:09,238 Evan Thornley: in most cases couldn't buy a home, but if they could, 127 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:11,609 Evan Thornley: it was because they literally saved money and bought it 128 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:15,360 Evan Thornley: with their savings to pay cash for it. Our grandparents, you 129 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,020 Evan Thornley: saw the beginnings of widespread availability of home mortgages. So 130 00:07:19,020 --> 00:07:21,000 Evan Thornley: they saved everything they could and then they got a 131 00:07:21,179 --> 00:07:23,339 Evan Thornley: mortgage for a portion of it, maybe it was a 20- 132 00:07:23,340 --> 00:07:26,370 Evan Thornley: year mortgage, maybe on a 60% LVR (Loan-to-Value Ratio), and that's how they 133 00:07:26,370 --> 00:07:29,219 Evan Thornley: bridged the gap as the gap was getting wider. Our parents' 134 00:07:29,219 --> 00:07:33,630 Evan Thornley: generation got 75 or 80% mortgages and started bringing a second income 135 00:07:33,630 --> 00:07:35,640 Evan Thornley: to service them, and that's how they bridged the even 136 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:42,120 Evan Thornley: bigger gap. My generation have had 80, 85, 90% mortgages, 30 year mortgages, 137 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,690 Evan Thornley: lenders mortgage insurance, and that's how we bridge the gap 138 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:49,860 Evan Thornley: to an even wider gap. The fifth generation, you've kind 139 00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:51,960 Evan Thornley: of squeezed that mortgage finance as far as you can 140 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,900 Evan Thornley: squeeze it, you need third party equity, you need more 141 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:58,080 Evan Thornley: equity from someone, and that's what's happening. The bank of 142 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,609 Evan Thornley: mum and dad, as we all call it, is the 143 00:07:59,610 --> 00:08:02,670 Evan Thornley: fifth biggest home financer in the country now. So, huge 144 00:08:02,670 --> 00:08:07,290 Evan Thornley: amounts of equity are now adding to the purchasing power 145 00:08:07,290 --> 00:08:09,960 Evan Thornley: of first home buyers. Governments are now putting money into 146 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,260 Evan Thornley: shared equity schemes and then companies like LongView and a 147 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:17,370 Evan Thornley: number of others are bringing private shared equity schemes to market, 148 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:21,089 Evan Thornley: because the fifth generation of housing finance to bridge that 149 00:08:21,089 --> 00:08:24,359 Evan Thornley: ever widening gap between house prices and incomes is going 150 00:08:24,359 --> 00:08:26,730 Evan Thornley: to be relying on more equity and it's got to 151 00:08:26,730 --> 00:08:29,250 Evan Thornley: come from somewhere. And if you don't have access to 152 00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:31,350 Evan Thornley: the bank of mum and dad, then you need to either 153 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:33,330 Evan Thornley: get it from the government or from a commercial provider. 154 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,139 Sean Aylmer: Okay, what's this mean long term? So, I appreciate that 155 00:08:37,139 --> 00:08:41,039 Sean Aylmer: having a third party taking equity in an asset, into 156 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,800 Sean Aylmer: a home, and then when that house is eventually sold, 157 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,130 Sean Aylmer: that third party gets the share of the pie. Does 158 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:49,950 Sean Aylmer: that long- term take pressure off prices or does it 159 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:52,110 Sean Aylmer: actually put more pressure on prices? 160 00:08:53,099 --> 00:08:56,099 Evan Thornley: No. Well, it certainly won't take pressure off prices, I'm 161 00:08:56,099 --> 00:09:00,330 Evan Thornley: sorry to say, but I wouldn't overstate its impact on prices 162 00:09:00,330 --> 00:09:04,020 Evan Thornley: either way. The numbers here are such telephone book numbers, 163 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:07,200 Evan Thornley: it's hard to comprehend. Governments are going to put about $ 164 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,840 Evan Thornley: 2 billion into shared equity over the next few years, 165 00:09:09,929 --> 00:09:11,578 Evan Thornley: up from nothing not long ago. That's a lot of 166 00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:16,559 Evan Thornley: money, but that's $ 2 billion, the entire housing market is 167 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,890 Evan Thornley: worth 10 thousand billion dollars, $ 10 trillion, or probably about 9. 168 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,500 Evan Thornley: 5 Right now. So, don't think that it's going to 169 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:27,718 Evan Thornley: make that much difference. Again, all of these factors do 170 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,139 Evan Thornley: impact pricing a little bit, but the overwhelming factor that 171 00:09:31,139 --> 00:09:33,598 Evan Thornley: impacts pricing is population and population growth. 172 00:09:34,619 --> 00:09:38,429 Sean Aylmer: This is a Dorothy Dixer, Evan Thornley, co- founder and 173 00:09:38,429 --> 00:09:41,429 Sean Aylmer: executive chair of Longview. However, is it the best answer? 174 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:43,500 Sean Aylmer: It's obviously not the only answer, but is it the 175 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:45,208 Sean Aylmer: best answer, this shared equity model? 176 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:47,940 Evan Thornley: Well, it's kind of emerging as the only answer to 177 00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:51,030 Evan Thornley: be honest. If you include third, when I say third 178 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:53,850 Evan Thornley: party equity, it mainly right now it's the bank of 179 00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:57,210 Evan Thornley: mum and dad. But increasingly then it'll be shared equity. 180 00:09:57,210 --> 00:09:58,920 Evan Thornley: If you don't have bank of mum and dad, then 181 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,690 Evan Thornley: you'll need to get that equity either from the government 182 00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:03,990 Evan Thornley: or from a commercial provider. And that is emerging as 183 00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:07,588 Evan Thornley: the dominant answer. There are methods to rent to buy, 184 00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:10,740 Evan Thornley: they're tricky, particularly in Australia because rental yields are so 185 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:13,890 Evan Thornley: low in Australia, so adding more to the rent doesn't 186 00:10:13,980 --> 00:10:16,650 Evan Thornley: get you that much closer to the purchase. Very different to, 187 00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:20,490 Evan Thornley: say the US. Australia's one of the strongest capital growth 188 00:10:20,490 --> 00:10:23,098 Evan Thornley: markets in the world, but that means it's one of 189 00:10:23,099 --> 00:10:25,019 Evan Thornley: the worst rental yield markets in the world from an 190 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:27,509 Evan Thornley: investment point of view. So, you've kind of got to 191 00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:29,549 Evan Thornley: swim with the tide of the economics and focus on 192 00:10:29,549 --> 00:10:32,218 Evan Thornley: how you get access to that capital growth. Lots of 193 00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:35,429 Evan Thornley: parts of America, for example, instead of 3% rental yields, 194 00:10:35,429 --> 00:10:38,130 Evan Thornley: they'll have eight, nine, 10% rental yields. And so things 195 00:10:38,130 --> 00:10:40,050 Evan Thornley: like rent to buy are much easier to work in 196 00:10:40,050 --> 00:10:42,870 Evan Thornley: Cleveland or Houston or Atlanta than they ever will be 197 00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:43,920 Evan Thornley: in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, 198 00:10:44,730 --> 00:10:46,828 Sean Aylmer: But a relatively safe investment in Australia> 199 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,559 Evan Thornley: An incredibly safe investment. There's so much commentary about, is 200 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,570 Evan Thornley: it the right time in the cycle? As if we 201 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:57,750 Evan Thornley: are betting on the stock market. The stock market every 202 00:10:57,750 --> 00:11:02,910 Evan Thornley: 10 or 15 years crashes, as you know, and drops 40 to 70%, often 203 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:06,209 Evan Thornley: virtually overnight. People talk about bubbles and crashes in the 204 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,860 Evan Thornley: housing market. The Australian housing market has crashed once. That 205 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:16,078 Evan Thornley: was in 1893. We've just had the biggest proportionate rise 206 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,299 Evan Thornley: in interest rates in the fastest time in history in 207 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:20,490 Evan Thornley: the last few months and how much of Australian house 208 00:11:20,490 --> 00:11:24,900 Evan Thornley: price has gone down? About 9%, having gone up 20. 209 00:11:25,860 --> 00:11:29,070 Evan Thornley: If you look at it over an 80- year period, 210 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:33,930 Evan Thornley: it's extraordinarily non- volatile. It's an incredibly safe asset class. 211 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:37,200 Evan Thornley: And if the dominant driver is population growth and that 212 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,098 Evan Thornley: population growth continues, then you keep seeing that reflected in 213 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:47,370 Evan Thornley: continuing rising land prices and therefore continuing rising property prices 214 00:11:47,370 --> 00:11:50,670 Evan Thornley: depending on how much of the land content is in 215 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:54,420 Evan Thornley: that property. So, high- rise apartments have virtually no capital 216 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:58,499 Evan Thornley: growth, and they're terrible investments. Detached homes in good locations 217 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,949 Evan Thornley: have really strong land content, so have really good capital growth. 218 00:12:02,909 --> 00:12:05,100 Sean Aylmer: Evan, so much to unpack in that, but we're out 219 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:07,410 Sean Aylmer: of time. Thank you very much for talking to Fear & Greed. 220 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:08,250 Evan Thornley: Thanks very much, Sean. 221 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,389 Sean Aylmer: That was Evan Thornley, co- founder and executive chair of LongView. 222 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:14,549 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear & Greed daily interview. Remember, this is 223 00:12:14,549 --> 00:12:17,429 Sean Aylmer: general information only and you should always seek professional advice 224 00:12:17,699 --> 00:12:21,030 Sean Aylmer: before making investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full 225 00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:24,120 Sean Aylmer: episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm 226 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,740 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.