WEBVTT - Sharri | 2 September 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.480 Why on Sky News This. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:08.959 Is Sharry, Thanks Andrew, and good evening. 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:14.280 Massive show Tonight, a major exclusive AZEO Director General Mike 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:19.200 Burgess declares that HERMAS supporters are a national security threat. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.079 These comments clarify his view on the GUASA. 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:24.480 Visa issue that's in a moment. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.120 Also tonight, an ex UK spy chief weighs in on 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.440 this very issue. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.480 And you're not going to avoid this terrorist problem. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.320 My exclusive interview with Sir Richie dearlove coming up shortly 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.640 and with the heartbreaking news that six Israeli hostages have 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:47.640 been executed by Hamas. For Israeli government spokesman Elon Levy 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.520 will speak to us exclusively about. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.159 The media bias against Israel. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.360 Also today, Jim Chalmers at war with the RBA as 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.480 the economy sinks. Will economist Warren Hogan would tell us 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.840 who's to blame. But first now to our major exclusive. 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.759 AZIO Director General Mike Burgess has told a private gathering 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:14.160 that anyone who supports Harmas or the October seven terror 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:19.360 attacks would pose a security threat. These comments clarify his 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.040 view on the guards of visa issue. I can tonight 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.759 reveal that mister Burgess has made it clear that Gazans 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.720 who want a Palestinian state will be allowed into Australia, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.720 while support for HERMAS would be, in. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.720 His words, a deal breaker. 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.440 This is a major development in the saga that has 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:44.120 plagued the government over the past month. Since mister Burgess's 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.520 appearance on the ABC last month, there's been considerable community 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.960 confusion over whether Hamas activists were welcome in Australia. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.040 If it's just rhetorical re support and they don't have 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.000 an ideology or support for a violent stream as an ideology, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:01.360 then that's not a problem. 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.320 And then in question time Anthony ALBINIZI wouldn't answer the 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.920 question twice about whether HERMAS supporters would pass the character 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:12.840 test for an Australian visa. 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.760 Prime Minister does supporting has pass the character test for 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:17.760 an Australian visa. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.200 Everyone who applies for an Australian visa is subject to 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.079 the same security standard set by the same agencies and 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.360 the same personnel as under the former government. 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:34.399 Well after weeks of concern, Mike Burgess's new comments. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.080 Clarify his position on the issue. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.840 I can reveal that Mike Burgess told a high level 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.160 private gathering of business leaders and academics last week that 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.960 it wasn't the case that he would give the green 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.480 light to HERMAS supporters entering Australia. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:50.880 I understand. 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.560 He told the gathering that any HERMAS supporters would be 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.680 considered by ASIO to be a security threat. He said 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.360 words to the effect of and I quote, if you 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:06.120 support terrorism, if you support what happened on October seven, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.040 then you are a threat to security. So Mike Burgess 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.799 clearly stating there that any support for her Mus or 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.079 the terror attacks of October seven would be considered. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.960 A security threat by ASIO. He also made it clear that. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:27.600 Supporters of a Palestinian state, but not individuals who support 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.840 her MUS, would be allowed into the country. I understand, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.080 he told the private gathering, and I quote believing Palestine 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.280 should be an independent state would not automatically disqualify someone, 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:47.600 but providing material support to HERMAS or harboring extremist beliefs would. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:48.680 Be a deal breaker. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.720 So Mike Burgess is now saying that supporters of a 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.920 Palestinian state would be allowed into the country, but harboring 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.880 extremist beliefsing support material support to HERMAS would be a 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.440 deal breaker. Mike Burgess also spoke about how more people 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:13.320 in Australia are being radicalized and how it's impossible to 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.760 keep tabs on everyone. He also spoke about the approach 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.880 taken by the organization he leads ASIO. He said again 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.679 I quote AZIO takes a comprehensive and in depth approach 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.039 to its security checks as defined by the ASIO Act. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.600 Each case is taken on its merits. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.320 We look at everything to determine if a person is 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.920 a direct or indirect threat to security, not just one thing. 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.359 And he also told the gathering that ASIO cannot go 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.640 into the details of the security checks process because the 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.560 more applicants know, the more likely and extremist will be 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.680 able to use this to their advantage. Suffice to say, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.200 asio's checks and advice are part of a bigger process 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:03.279 that's administered by Home Affairs. Now, my story tonight comes 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:09.160 after considerable concern and confusion in the Australian community about 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.479 how the possibility of her MUS activists arriving in Australia 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:18.880 could be allowed. Mike Burgess's comments now clear this up. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.479 From a security perspective. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:25.359 He is saying unequivocally that support for HERMAS or for 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.640 the October seven attacks would be considered by Asio to 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:37.400 be a threat to Australia's national security. Now this tonight 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.960 clears up Asio's position, but not the Albanese governments. The 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.919 Australians editor at Large Paul Kelly wrote on the weekend 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.600 that there has been a deliberate confusion between entry policy 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.480 and security checks. Albanzi has tried to blur this line. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.880 He's tried to mislead the public by saying he's got 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:03.719 confidence in Asio. Asio doesn't set the immigration policy. As 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.280 Paul Kelly wrote in his excellent piece, the Albenzi government 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:12.120 has given no explanation for its visa policy or process. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.920 He said, almost nothing is known about the government's originating decision. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.239 Was this authorized on submission by the National Security Committee 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.839 of Cabinet as the only proper decision making body was 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:30.440 an overall entry number agreed? Why were tourist visas used? 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.000 What security provisions were authorized? Why didn't the Prime Minister 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.360 make a formal, detailed statement on the decision and take 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:44.280 related questions? Now, the Albenze government chose to use a 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.560 visitor visas tourist visas that have a lower security vetting 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:54.200 threshold to speed up the process of getting Gazans into Australia, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.719 and this is an admission already made by adhusik. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.880 Why visit A visas because they're faster. The process withf 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.480 G visas take longer, and given what's happening right now 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:11.080 and the dangers presented, the view was to try and 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.200 get people out as quickly as you can. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.160 And as you know, the government has issued nearly three 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.280 thousand visitor visas, with only some where a flag is 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.960 raised actually going to Asio. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.400 For vetting the form ahead of m I six. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.120 Sir Richard Dearlove tonight on the show sits down for 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:31.840 an exclusive interview and. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.760 He says there's a clear terror risk. 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.120 He says no Gasans should be coming to Australia at 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.440 this time. He says that would be his strong advice. Well, 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.000 Mike Burgess's remarks that I've brought to you tonight have 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.720 clarified the security position from Azio's perspective that her MUST 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:55.320 supporters do pose a security threat. So now the Prime 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.800 Minister needs to come out and say unequivocally that her 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.200 MUST supporters don't be welcome in Australia, that supporting her 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:08.960 MUS won't pass the character test because just overnight. We've 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:13.760 seen the horrific and brutal murder, murder of six young 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.920 innocent men and women after nearly a. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.320 Year spent in captivity. 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:24.200 Anyone who supports this brutality has no place in our country, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.640 and that should be a statement of the obvious, not 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.920 something the Prime Minister has to obfuscate and equivocate about, 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.760 as he did on that last sitting day of Parliament. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.960 Here you see hersh Goldberg, Poland, just twenty three. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.120 His mother told us how. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.640 Hopeful she was that her son would come home when 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.480 she spoke to us on this program. There's Alex Lebanov 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:56.960 thirty three, Alma Garusi twenty six, Carmelgut thirty nine, Eden 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:03.160 Urushelmi who turned twenty four just before she was killed, 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:09.920 and Ori Denino twenty five. They each had so much 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.280 to live for, their whole lives ahead of them, but 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:18.800 Hermas executed them. They were shot at close range. Their 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:26.319 bodies dumped inside a tunnel under Raffa, Yes, Rafa Rafa, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.680 where Penny Wang, Anthony Alberanizi, Kamala Harris and many others 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:32.240 didn't want Israel to go. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:33.360 Remember that. 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:41.920 I have directly put to Prime Minister net Nyahou Australia's 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.080 concern about a grand invasion of Raffa and the consequences 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:46.920 that would be there. 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:52.840 We have been clear in multiple conversations and in every 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:59.240 way that any major military operation in Rafa would be 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.040 a huge wantmast I. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.079 Wish to restate the Australian government's grave concerns about an 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.240 impending major Israeli ground offensive in Ruffa. Our message to 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.920 Israel is listened to the world. Do not go down 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:14.880 this path. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.960 So many young lives in Rafa waiting to be saved. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.640 Yet Penny Wang, Kamala Harris, Anthony Albinezi didn't want Israel 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.320 to go there, didn't want Israel to go there where 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.920 these young people, some of them children, some of them 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:39.200 a baby, were there in captivity, held by her Musk terrorists, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.920 waiting to be rescued. And as for the statements by 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.079 Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, well, one of their own 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.880 American citizens was there waiting desperately. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.920 To be rescued, Hirsh. He was a duel American Israeli. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.720 I can't help but wonder how different the outcome for 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.840 these hostages and many might have been if international agencies 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.120 and world leaders had truly put immense pressure on her 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:12.400 Muss and its backers like Katar for their release. If 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.360 the Red Cross and other UN agencies had lectured not 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:20.439 Israel but her Mus to release all of these lives, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.040 if they had insisted the Red Cross on visiting the 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:29.440 children and other hostages in captivity, but they didn't, the 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.800 world basically turned its backs on these young lives now 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.640 lost to us forever. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:40.319 Now. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.320 I spoke with Britain's former top spy chief about the 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.720 Guys of visa issue. The world famous former head of 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.240 MI six, Sir Richard Dearlove, says that if he were 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.160 in charge of our national security, his strong advice would 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.920 be to stop any Gazans arriving from the terrorist controlled hotspot, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.520 at least until security vetting is possible. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:04.679 Now, Sir Richard held the. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.240 Role informally known as C from nineteen ninety nine to 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:09.240 two thousand and four. 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.120 Here's what he had to say. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.080 In your former role, would you have been worried about 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:20.040 social cohesion issues and rising anti Semitism by bringing in 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.079 literally thousands of people from Gaza when you look at 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.560 their own governments hatred of Israel, which they want to 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:28.440 wipe off the map. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.240 Yeah. Look, it's a shocking and it's a complex issue. 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.200 And I think the problem that we're seeing is the 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.679 exploitation of the Palestinians by Hamas. I mean, Hamas's attitude 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.160 to the Palestinians has been entirely cynical. And you know, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:53.920 they have created a conflict where the civilian population is 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:59.720 a shield, and you know they have mixed combatants and civilians. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.560 There's no separation in this war, and the. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.720 Palestinians have suffered dreadfully and we all, i think, feel 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.640 that concern and that sympathy which has turned, you know, 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.760 into an extreme situation. I think the danger that you 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:20.080 mention in relation to Australia, and I'm not informed of 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.800 the detail, is amongst some of those people coming into Australia, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.360 there would I would I would imagine not just be 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:33.559 Hamus sympathizers, but the possibility that there are Hamous activists 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:39.840 as well. And there's no question that Iran, you know, 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.600 will be exploiting these opportunities. I mean, they have a 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.680 very active intelligence organization which has a long history in 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.880 my view, of supporting terrorist movements. So yes, there is 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:57.800 a danger in this sort of infiltration of the Palestinian diaspora, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.200 and as it were, the fact that the Palestinians are 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.920 victims of this crisis. It's an entirely cynical situation. And 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:11.000 in my view, people don't explain sufficiently the extent to 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:18.800 which Hammers built themselves militarily inside the Palestinian population so 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.360 that the Palestinians would suffer massively if they were attacked, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:23.680 and that's just what's happened. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.480 Yeah, the death toll, the suffering of their own people 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:32.480 is part of their absurd military strategy against Israel. It's 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.320 horrific and it's one of the many reasons why they 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.640 need to be removed as the governing body in Gaza. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.680 But Sir Richard, I'm intrigued by the comment you just 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.040 made when you said Iran has a very sophisticated intelligence 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.840 and they would be looking to infiltrate, They'd be looking 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.920 for opportunities like this. What do you mean how would 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:53.560 that work? 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:54.040 Well? 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:59.040 The IRGC, which is the Iranian Revolutionary Guard call is 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:05.920 of it's the primary intelligence organization in Iran. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.520 Wherever there is. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:13.280 An indigenous Iranian community, they will reach into it. Wherever 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.960 there are communities that maybe a sympathizers towards the theocracy 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:23.440 in Iran, they will be exploiting that situation. And I 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.960 think there's no question that you know, Australia, it may 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.880 seem very distant from the Middle East, you know, is 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.880 to an extent inevitably. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.920 Involved in this situation. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.760 So you know, we know, we've seen. I mean, I 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.120 remember when I was chief. This is way back warning 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.920 when Alexander down It was Foreign Minister saying to Alexander, look, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.960 you know you're not going to avoid this terrorist problem 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:58.479 because of you know, the composition of the ethnic composition 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.560 of your immigrant communities, and they will be influenced, they 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.800 will be affected, and there will be individuals who will 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.680 get sucked into terrorism. That's just what's happened. And I 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:14.120 think the risk continues, particularly when the background is like 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.640 the crisis currently in Gaza, which is extreme and you 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.520 know it is going to influence all of our communities 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:27.640 that are affected by the reverberations of this war and 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.240 this really ghastly conflict. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.080 Is your advice therefore, that there needs to be even 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:43.280 more rigorous screening of a country's immigration intake from certain 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.280 parts of the world. So right now the front line 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.200 of a war zone in Gaza where it is controlled 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.680 by a terrorist regime. Are you saying that there should 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.040 be much more rigorous security screening or do you think 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.920 that it's just so difficult to ascertain if there is 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.800 a security risk that perhaps it's better to pause, which 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.600 is what our opposition later has suggested here, to pause immigration. 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.920 Well, I think if I would response for my advice 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.439 would be the same and to pause it. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.840 But look, on the other hand, Aisier is a. 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:23.800 Pretty efficient organization that I've been certainly impressed by. You know, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.280 it's it knows what it's doing. But I would have 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:33.000 thought that they need to be extremely careful in allowing 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:38.479 these people in without some sort of security screening, without 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.800 some investigation as to who's coming in, you know what, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:47.320 where they are, what they're doing, what their connections are. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.520 I mean, it just seems to me like very basic issue. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.600 And I would have thought, given the terrorist problems that 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.120 you've had in Australia, you know, which have been notable 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.120 over that in the last ten to fifty that people 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.520 should be very very careful about this, you know, otherwise 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:04.960 you're going. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:10.240 To important problem which would be difficult. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.000 Yeah, this is why it's been one of the biggest 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.919 political issues, well the biggest political issue of the past 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.119 fortnite here in Australia in our parliament. But just to 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.399 clarify to Richard, at the start of that last answer, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.800 you said your advice would be to pause. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.359 It is that right? 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.919 If you're not if you can't trace and you can't 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:35.080 vet these people before they come in, I would I 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.639 personally would have advised to wait until one is in 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.720 the stronger position to do that. I mean, there's so 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.639 much uncertainty at the moment. But I guess you know 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.399 what the other side of the argument is as a 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.639 humanitarian argument, and you've got to balance those two sides. 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.560 I mean, I come from a security and intelligence background 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.320 and obviously I would put that as a primary issue. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.280 I put the humanitarian issue second. But then others will 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:06.840 certainly disagree with me. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:13.200 The head of AZEO, the Director General of AZIO, said 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.760 two weeks ago, which is what sparked this entire political 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.679 debate here in Australia. He said that rhetorical support for 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.560 Hermas would not alone be a reason to exclude someone 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.120 from Gaza for getting a visa. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:28.919 To enter Australia. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.760 So he said rhetorical support for Hermas as opposed to 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:39.080 ideological support, would not prevent someone from getting a visa 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:40.560 to enter Australia. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.399 That has sparked a lot. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.840 Of confusion and concern in the community. What do you 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.280 think of a comment like that, that someone could express 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.879 rhetorical support for a listed terror organization which I mus 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:59.080 is and still be allowed into a country like Australia. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.440 Well, it's very hard to make a distinction between rhetorical 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:10.800 support and something more profound. Look all of us, you know, 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.480 I'm thinking about the UK. You know, we've been shocked 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:20.000 by the extent to which there's sort of apparently militant 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.919 rhetorical support on the streets for Hamas during the hurrying prices, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.879 and it's worrying and concerning. And there's no question that 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.320 amongst that group they're going to be people who I 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:32.520 think are radicalized. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:38.200 That's the danger, you know, radicalized individuals. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.919 I'm not necessarily suggesting that the Iranians or Hamas are 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:47.160 going to import organized terrorist groups into Australia, but there 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:54.840 will be low wolves who you know, and I mean 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:59.520 that's one of the characteristics of recent terrorist attacks. The 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.400 active it is look at this recent stabbing in Germany. 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.880 It is clearly a label for tack killing three people 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.120 in a provincial German city. I mean, that's the sort 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.720 of problem that is being faced and I think inevitably 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.920 Australia isn't going to be immune from that. Why should 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.600 anybody think you're so isolated from that risk? And this 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:31.080 is a very volatile period politically, very volatile indeed, when 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.800 one is looking at anything to do with the Middle East. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.959 Well, that incident you mentioned the German music festival again 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:44.359 that it's been reported that Islamic terror was at least 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.840 the ideology behind that individual. 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.040 It's also been reported that he was seeking or is 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:51.720 seeking refugee status. 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:53.520 So you know, do you think of the left are 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.480 blind to some of these issues that they see a 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:00.480 refugee and they can't believe that that person could be 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.040 influenced or radicalized or driven by ISIS. 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:09.160 But we've had a stack of examples across Europe where 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:15.960 individuals supposedly genuine refugees have been radicalized and have reacted, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:22.280 you know, in a violent and inexplicable fashion. That's it's 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.480 a high risk at the moment, and I would have 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.719 thought that this is a risk that has to be 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:32.200 taken account of in protecting, you know, the safety of 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:36.560 Juan's citizens, and that applies in Australia as well. I 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.560 just think it's a very difficult issue. But I would 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:45.200 urge caution and I would urge restraint rather than throwing 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.919 through and throwing open the doors and letting anybody in. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.480 All right, So Richard, thank you so much. It's always 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:53.840 a pleasure. 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.920 To hear your insights. Really appreciate your time. 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.480 Once again, Cherry, very nice talking with you again the best. 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:02.680 So that's there. 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:05.600 A big intervention in the guys of visa debate by 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.439 Sir Richard dear love. Also still coming up on the 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.000 show a bit later our exclusive interview with Elon Levy. 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.480 But right now let's bring in our Monday panel Sky 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:17.440 News host Steve Price and contributor Joe Hildebrand. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:18.520 Great to see you both. 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.400 Look, let's have a look at the ozas News poll 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.880 today on the two party preferred basis. The major parties 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.760 are neck and neck. The PM's approval ratings have gone 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.639 down and this is now a consistent trend for the 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:41.600 Prime Minister Steve. These results aren't great for alban Easy. 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:41.800 No they're certainly not, and they're not great for the 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.600 country either if they are actually reflected during an election, 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.560 because Shari and Joe, as we know, what that pole 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.159 tells us is where probably if things don't change, headed 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.520 for a minority Labor government, where Anthony Albanezi will be 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.080 forced into doing deals with the Teals and with the Greens. 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.280 And we discussed this last week and it just doesn't 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:05.400 get any better if that happens. Look at the debarkell 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:07.800 over this gold mine. We're going to be in all 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:09.720 sorts of trouble. I can remember what it was like 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.119 with Julia Gillard trying to do this and it was 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:12.679 a mess. 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.040 Yeah, it was indeed, Joe. 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:18.399 The newsport did show that the coalition hadn't made in 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.680 roads in convincing voters that they do a better job 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:23.320 fighting the inflation crisis. 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:25.840 Yeah, that's right, and I think that's very much part 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.520 of Labour's deliberate strategy. It knows that it's not going 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.000 to be covering itself in roses or glory in the 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:32.680 middle of the cost of living crisis, and that people 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:34.360 are going to be angry at the government and their 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.760 only hope, I suppose is the thinking that they can 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.040 just make whatever they think of Anthony Alberanezi, they dislike 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:43.560 Peter Dutton Moore, and I think that's pretty reductive. It's 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.040 not a lot the sort of politics I like to 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:48.800 be played out, but it's clearly it's clearly working. And also, 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.119 you know, to some extent when you think about you 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.520 know the fact that Coalition is criticizing the Labour's cost 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.000 of living relief. You know, you can define inflation in 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.280 two different ways, obviously, but in terms of the actual 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:02.040 impact on the hip pocket to voters, Labour's cost of 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.119 living relief is really really important and Peter Dutton and 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.760 Coalish have already been critical of that, and so they're 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.040 actually right. If they're going to cut one hundred million 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:12.240 bucks worth of relief or savings or wherever it might be, 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:15.560 then they are going to get Then they are going 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:17.480 to lead people worse off, even if it's better. 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:18.000 Off in the long term. 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.280 It had argument to prosecute, that's for sure. 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:25.239 Meanwhile, Anthony Alberesi and Chris Bowen are both arguing that 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:29.439 Peter Dutton's nuclear plan won't work. The OSRA ports that 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:32.280 Chris Bowen is now arguing the coalition's plan to build 0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:36.720