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Speaker 1: Now we've all heard of Mount Koziosco Grade six geography question,

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Speaker 1: Australia's tallest mountain. We all knew it Mount Kaziosco. Probably

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Speaker 1: couldn't spell it, but still probably can't. Actually, if you

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Speaker 1: put me to the testis I've got it right in

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Speaker 1: front of me at the moment, I'm reading a book

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Speaker 1: a few chapters into it. This guy around the world,

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Speaker 1: Koziosco was an absolute a lister. Presidents in America knew him,

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Speaker 1: the first presidents because that's around the time he lived.

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Speaker 1: King's queens in Europe knew him. He was a hero,

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Speaker 1: and a mountain here is named after him, and we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have a clue about anything to do with today.

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Speaker 1: Is Koziosco author of a book on his life. It's

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Speaker 1: Anthony Charwood who joins me now, Anthony, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, good morning to everybody, and to you, Matthew.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I just couldn't believe it. Old

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Speaker 2: Cos was sitting there on our mountain. He's been there

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Speaker 2: for one hundred and eighty four years now, and we

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Speaker 2: don't know the first thing about him. As you said,

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Speaker 2: so I thought it was time to fill in the blank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, there are quite a few blanks, because I've

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Speaker 1: been reading your book and you write it so interestingly

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Speaker 1: in that there's you know, it's not a conventional serious book,

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Speaker 1: if you'll, I mean it is, but you've got so

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Speaker 1: many throwaway lines in it that just make it so

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Speaker 1: entertaining as I read through. But boy, what this guy

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Speaker 1: didn't do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. I mean, look, let's let's give a

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Speaker 2: really really brief life, Prieste. I mean, the first thing

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Speaker 2: is that strez LeKi, well Streleski, the Polish explorer that

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Speaker 2: we call strez LeKi, was the first European to climb

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Speaker 2: the mountain in eighteen forty and he named it after

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Speaker 2: his national hero, Kostyushkov, who we better know is Kozyosco

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Speaker 2: Walk or just Cosy these days. Yes, why does he

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Speaker 2: name it after his national hero? Because, as you said,

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Speaker 2: what a guy, what a life. Born in Poland in

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Speaker 2: seventeen forty six, and he studied military engineering in France,

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Speaker 2: and he's doing that while America's revolution is kicking off,

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Speaker 2: and he kind of catches the buzz. He believes in

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Speaker 2: Project America. No one in France at the time likes

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Speaker 2: Britain much so he's super super keen to go over

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Speaker 2: there and help America forge its independence over Britain. So

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Speaker 2: he goes there. George Washington straight away goes, holy cow,

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Speaker 2: We've got all these sort of farmers wielding weapons, you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got these sort of citizen militia. But here's this

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Speaker 2: trained guy like no one else. We need him. So

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Speaker 2: he He spent seven and a half years in America's

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Speaker 2: Revolutionary War, longer than any foreign officer. And his works

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Speaker 2: are crucial, especially around the Hudson River and around a

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Speaker 2: name that all Australians would know, west Point.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing this story tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: Well. West Point is today the American Military Academy on

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Speaker 2: the Hudson River, about an hour up from New York City,

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Speaker 2: and Kasosco actually proposed to the academy's existence, and it

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Speaker 2: exists now the site that he fortified. So George Washington said,

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Speaker 2: control the Hutson, you win the war. And to control

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Speaker 2: the Hudson, you had to control west Point, which is

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Speaker 2: a sort of kink in an otherwise straight river. And

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Speaker 2: he just built a series of forts and did all

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Speaker 2: this stuff around there that made the place so secure

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Speaker 2: the British never even dared to attack it. That is

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Speaker 2: just one thing that he does over in America. And

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Speaker 2: then at the end of the war he goes back

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Speaker 2: to Poland. He's a farmer for a while, but Russia

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Speaker 2: has invaded Poland and he leads a thing called the

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Speaker 2: Kasiosco Uprising against Russia. Now it fails and it's imprisoned.

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Speaker 2: He's imprisoned in Russia, but he is celebrated across Europe

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Speaker 2: for being the great defender of liberty. He really took

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Speaker 2: People don't know the history of Poland, but you know,

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Speaker 2: they tried to put in place a constitution. It didn't

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Speaker 2: last long because the Russians kicked it out, but a

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Speaker 2: constitution that had all the freedom and equality that America

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Speaker 2: has had. And that's the thing about cause Math here

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Speaker 2: is that he wasn't just a military guy. He was

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Speaker 2: a humanist. He tried to free the enslaved, the serfs

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Speaker 2: in Europe. He offered the Jews freedom if they joined

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Speaker 2: him in his revolution, which they did, and no one

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Speaker 2: had ever said that to the Jews. And he was

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Speaker 2: that sort of person. He didn't, you know, he walked

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Speaker 2: the walk, not just talk the talk.

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Speaker 1: And that's interesting because you write that about Jefferson that

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Speaker 1: he was all about all men created equal, but he

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Speaker 1: had slaves and couses. They're trying to free them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. So sort of in midlife because

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Speaker 2: he comes back to America and Jefferson, you know, America's

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Speaker 2: third president and as you say, the author of its

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Speaker 2: Declaration of Independence which contains those famous words all men

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Speaker 2: are creating equal and cause he says, come on, Jefferson,

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Speaker 2: prove that you mean it. Don't have six hundred and

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Speaker 2: nine people enslaved on your property across your lifetime, which

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Speaker 2: he did, and he left his unclaimed revolutionary or pay

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Speaker 2: to free those slaves. So, as I say, walking the walk,

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Speaker 2: not just talking to talk, just an incredible person. And

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Speaker 2: you know, of all European names that are on all

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Speaker 2: the Australian landmarks, significant places over the years, we could

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Speaker 2: not possibly have a better one than Cosiosco. People need

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Speaker 2: to know his story. But the other thing I've done

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Speaker 2: in the book, and maybe we can talk about that,

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Speaker 2: is that I've talked about the Aboriginal pieces well, and

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Speaker 2: we need to know their story and what they may

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Speaker 2: want for the mountain.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's that's crucial. I was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: about that, because you know, you can write about this,

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Speaker 1: but nothing has happened yet. It is it is up

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Speaker 1: I suppose for the debate changing as as Rock became

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Speaker 1: Mi LaRue, should Koziosco Mount Koziosco be called well, whatever

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Speaker 1: the local people want it called.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well the answer should is not my My my

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Speaker 2: question to respond to definitively, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So what I've done in the book, I've done what

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Speaker 2: I must. You know, I'm a journal as well as

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Speaker 2: an author, and what a journal has to do, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's almost old fashion in journalism chuck the facts out

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Speaker 2: there and stand back and let the issue play out.

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Speaker 2: But I've done that. I've said this is who Cozy was,

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Speaker 2: greatest guy ever. That's two thirds of the book. And

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Speaker 2: then the final third I'm like, this is what the

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Speaker 2: mountains are. These are the Narugu people of the mountains

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Speaker 2: who've been dispossessed. These are some of the names they want.

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Speaker 2: And the reason the name hasn't changed is probably have

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Speaker 2: been one or two formal proposals, but they've got nowhere

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Speaker 2: in the past. But it's because Matthew, there are several

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Speaker 2: names for the mountain, several so you know, they can't

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Speaker 2: agree on a name the way that Ularu has agreed

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Speaker 2: on to use your example, So it'll play out over time,

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Speaker 2: and when the people get together and decide on one name,

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Speaker 2: which in the book they've told me they will, then

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Speaker 2: we'll have an issue on our hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be interesting, all right, And I

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Speaker 1: might throw that open to call as should we change

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Speaker 1: the name from Koziosco. But what a remarkable man, And

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Speaker 1: from what I've read of it so far, Anthony, you've

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Speaker 1: captured him very very well in the first four chapters

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Speaker 1: that I've got through, and I look forward to reading

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Speaker 1: the rest of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for reading it, and thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me on. And I just hope that

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Speaker 2: people get around him, because you know, it's just it

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Speaker 2: was so much fun researching this history myself and just

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Speaker 2: learning about a guy that we know nothing about, whose

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Speaker 2: name we all know.

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Speaker 1: I like you your intro saying, well, I've written books

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Speaker 1: around the region, but you woke up one day and thought,

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Speaker 1: who the heck is Kozyosco.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I've written two books in the past since

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty. This is my third book on the region,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, the other two one of them was about

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Speaker 2: the Brumby fight that you know about called the Brumby Wars,

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Speaker 2: and another one was about walking through the mountains called

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Speaker 2: from Snow to Ash and this is a total change

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Speaker 2: of pace. But I just couldn't let it go. It

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Speaker 2: was just bothering me. I was like, I need to

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Speaker 2: know more about him. As soon as I went down

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Speaker 2: that Coziosco rabbit hole, I was hooked. I was just

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Speaker 2: so hooked, and I hope people feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: There's certainly a boy's own adventure life, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, Anthony, and good luck with the book.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Charlwoote, author of his latest book, Koziosco is a

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Speaker 1: great shot on the cover of Cozy looking off to

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Speaker 1: the distance and the mountain behind him. You won't miss

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Speaker 1: it in bookstores. And it is an incredible life. There's

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Speaker 1: no doubt. It's also on the front page, the incredible

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Speaker 1: life of the man behind the mountain. Incredible life. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's gone to America, as Andrew explained, to take part

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Speaker 1: in the revolution. He was a soldier and in those days,

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Speaker 1: if there wasn't a water fight in your country. You

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Speaker 1: became a mercenary and headed off somewhere else where. There

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Speaker 1: was a water fight. Washington notices him immediately, and he's

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Speaker 1: in that circle then and subsequent press scidents who followed,

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Speaker 1: I mean amazing. And then Sprez Leaky comes to Australia,

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Speaker 1: climbs the mountain and names it after an international hero,

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Speaker 1: a hero in the US and a hero in Europe. Unbelievable,

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Speaker 1: and all we know of him, well certainly up until now,

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Speaker 1: has been there's some bloke with a funny name who's

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Speaker 1: got a mountain Australia's tall, it's named after him. It's

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Speaker 1: an incredible story Koziosco and I look forward to reading

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Speaker 1: the rest of the book by Anthony Sharwood, the author

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Speaker 1: of Kosiosco