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Speaker 1: No were to hear people well like if you guys broke.

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Speaker 2: Up like we're fucked. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: It was like their own dreams and fantasies and hopes

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Speaker 1: and Disney movies.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I was like, great, that's good for you that it's

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Speaker 1: coming up. We're just living out of fear you have.

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Speaker 1: But hopefully you can witness how we've walked through this

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Speaker 1: to see that there's actually nothing to be afraid of

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Speaker 1: because love's not on the line.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to separate bathrooms. We would like to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge the Gadigle people of the Eora Nation, the traditional

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Speaker 2: custodians of this land, and pay our respects to the elders,

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Speaker 2: both past and present. My name's Cam Dado and I'm

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Speaker 2: Ali Daddo. We've got a wonderful guest.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's early morning in Australia as we are recording this.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not eating any breakfast and no protein and

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Speaker 2: I'm a little big words because I want to be

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Speaker 2: on my game today.

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Speaker 3: And we also had a bit of a late night,

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Speaker 3: which is not the norm for us. We went to

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Speaker 3: see an incredible band last night, Sons of the East.

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Speaker 3: Yet if you've never seen Sons of the East. Look

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Speaker 3: them up, go see them by their albums. Absolutely fantastic, joyful,

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Speaker 3: so much fun.

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Speaker 2: I was standing behind at Ali and Body, our youngest

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Speaker 2: daughter while these guys were doing their thing up on

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Speaker 2: stage and they're bouncing up and down, the arms in

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Speaker 2: the air. Body's singing, and it was just like, and

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Speaker 2: it's packed, it's a great vibe. It was super Fununs

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Speaker 2: of the East.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, many years ago when I first jumped on

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Speaker 3: Instagram for some reason or another, there was an account

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Speaker 3: that I actually stumbled across, and it was called Create

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Speaker 3: the Love. It was run by a fellow still run

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Speaker 3: by a fellow called Mark Groves, and I remember he

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Speaker 3: was this very wild eyed, earnest and blunt swearing Canadian

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Speaker 3: with really really great information. He was just very point

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Speaker 3: blank and so enjoyable. CAM started following him as well,

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Speaker 3: and that gave us a lot of great conversations around relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so cut to seven and a half years later,

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Speaker 2: Mark Starr has risen to great heights. He now has

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Speaker 2: millions of followers, he's got his own podcast, he's a

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Speaker 2: keynote speaker, and he's written a book with his wife

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Speaker 2: about codependent patterns and how to change them. He's also

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Speaker 2: a new dad.

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Speaker 3: He describes himself as a human connection specialist, and as

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Speaker 3: we mentioned, he is the founder of Create the Love

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Speaker 3: and he also hosts the Mark Groves podcast.

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Speaker 2: The book he wrote with Kylie mcbeeth, who also happens

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Speaker 2: to be his wife and mother of their child, is

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Speaker 2: called Liberated Love. Release codependent Patterns and create the love

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Speaker 2: you desire. We are so happy to have Mark Groves

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Speaker 2: with us today. Grab a notebook. We have some questions

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Speaker 2: you might want to remember the answers too. Let's welcome

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Speaker 2: into the bathroom Mark Groves. Hey, Mark, thank you for

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Speaker 2: your time.

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Speaker 4: Hey, I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: Where are you?

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Speaker 4: I'm in Vancouver or Canada? Oh?

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Speaker 3: We love Vancouver. We spent well, Actually Cam spent more

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Speaker 3: time than I did. He worked there for a while,

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Speaker 3: but I would travel from LA to go visit him.

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Speaker 3: And as we always say, we were hair's breadth away

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Speaker 3: from moving there because we fell in love with it

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Speaker 3: so much. Did you grow up in Canada?

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Calgary, big scar country. You don't

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Speaker 1: hear as much. We were a hair's breath away from

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Speaker 1: moving to Calgary. You don't hear that as much.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. So how did a Calgary boy get

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Speaker 3: into being a human connection expert? How did that come about?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: You know, like childhood wise, I was pretty blessed in

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Speaker 1: that my father actually would talk to me a lot

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Speaker 1: about my relational experiences.

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Speaker 4: We would often sit.

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Speaker 1: In the living room and talk about my relational woes

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Speaker 1: and we'd talk about human behavior. And I feel really

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Speaker 1: blessed that he was very he was very much modeling

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Speaker 1: that it was see to be emotional and communicate about

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Speaker 1: emotional things, and he was the one who was like

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Speaker 1: my mom still was curious, but my father was really

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Speaker 1: curious about my experience and wanted to be there for

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Speaker 1: me in that and my first year of university, I

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Speaker 1: started in a career in sales. Like I just worked

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Speaker 1: at an electronics store. So career is a strong term

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Speaker 1: for that, but it.

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Speaker 4: Was like the forty year old Virgin. Have you ever

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Speaker 4: seen that movie?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, like total electronics store. I sold extended warranties, but

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Speaker 1: I was like obsessed with understanding how to get people

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Speaker 1: to buy something right, to change their behavior to sell

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Speaker 1: the extended warranty. And then when in university, I was

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Speaker 1: really obsessed with understanding that from a marketing perspective, and

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Speaker 1: my favorite classes in university, although it wasn't my major,

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Speaker 1: were actually classes in psychology. And then I started a

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Speaker 1: career in pharmaceutical sales. My father did heart research, so

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Speaker 1: he connected me into that world, and so my real

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Speaker 1: interest in human behavior began from a manipulative perspective. It

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Speaker 1: was like how do I get people to change their choices?

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Speaker 1: And it was when I was in my late twenties

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Speaker 1: I went through an engagement ending and I remember thinking

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Speaker 1: to myself one how did I get so disconnected from myself?

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Speaker 1: Like how did I end up walking down this path

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Speaker 1: that I didn't really actually want on a conscious level.

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Speaker 1: And the person I was engaged to, she was incredible,

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Speaker 1: so that made it hard, like why did I not

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Speaker 1: want to be engaged to somebody who's really a great

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Speaker 1: choice by everything on the checklist? And I also thought

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Speaker 1: to myself, why am I so good at talking about

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Speaker 1: everything about my feelings? Like there's a there's a skill

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Speaker 1: I have and so it's not a skill set issue,

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Speaker 1: there's actually something.

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Speaker 4: More going on. And when my engagement ended.

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Speaker 1: I thought, why do I feel so connected to myself?

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Speaker 1: Like I finally have honored myself and chosen something for me.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, when I feel most connected

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Speaker 1: to myself, I feel most judged and shamed by the

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Speaker 1: not everyone around me, but a lot of people around me.

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Speaker 1: Why do I feel like a failure when I actually

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Speaker 1: feel like a success? Like it was this strange, opposing,

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Speaker 1: energetic force that was going on, and it made me

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Speaker 1: want to deeply understand marriage and relationships. And I grew

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Speaker 1: up Catholic, and I chose my way out of a

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Speaker 1: story that I was taught to live, which was you

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Speaker 1: get married by your mid late twenties, which is probably

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Speaker 1: now early mid thirties in the story, and then you

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Speaker 1: have kids by you know, shortly thereafter, and then you

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Speaker 1: stay together and you stay in love. And I noticed

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Speaker 1: when I ended my engagement, I was like, wait, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who aren't happy, and holy shit,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of divorces I haven't noticed because of

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Speaker 1: my biases. And now my bias was everyone's unhappy. They

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Speaker 1: just don't know it yet, you know so, but no.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Louis c. K bit where

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, marriage is great and if you

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Speaker 1: want to get married, great, but then get divorced, because

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Speaker 1: divorced is the best experience ever, you know, because he's

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Speaker 1: now been divorced and he said that the joke, he says, and.

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Speaker 4: Divorce is forever.

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Speaker 1: So I've felt myself really just noticing that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to really understand what separated real masterful people in relationships

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Speaker 1: and love, like what made them different and what made

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Speaker 1: the people who stay together and hate each other?

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Speaker 4: Why does that happen?

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Speaker 1: And then what made it so people didn't believe in

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Speaker 1: love anymore and actually avoided relationship under the guise of independence,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously not a judgment, just like often is true.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I would hear someone say I never

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Speaker 1: want to get married, and I realized, well, marriage isn't

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Speaker 1: actually the cause of divorce, you know, although it's.

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Speaker 4: Exactly like without it, you don't get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like dysfunctional relationships or misligned relationships or

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Speaker 1: what lead to divorce.

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Speaker 4: So it's like, regardless of whether we choose to.

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Speaker 1: Get married or not, if we're going to enter any

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Speaker 1: form of relating, why don't we be active in deciding

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Speaker 1: what that looks like, what it feels like and stop

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Speaker 1: just inheriting the patterns relationally. And I started to notice

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Speaker 1: in my writing about what I was learning, because that's

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Speaker 1: really what started to happen, was I was writing, and

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Speaker 1: I was using writing as an opportunity. I would say,

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Speaker 1: it was like a way to excise my shame, you

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Speaker 1: know about poor choices aren't made. And so what I

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Speaker 1: would do is just talk about the mistake I made

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Speaker 1: or the thing I learned, and in hopes that other

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Speaker 1: people would learn from that and maybe, you know, see

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Speaker 1: more of their own humanity. And it started to do

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Speaker 1: really well, and then I started to speak at conferences,

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Speaker 1: started a podcast, and everything just really I just had

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Speaker 1: immersed myself so deeply in it that it was just

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Speaker 1: like this and continues to be just this really deep

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Speaker 1: passionate obsession with like how do I continue to deepen

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Speaker 1: my mastery? And can we all actually practice unconditional love

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Speaker 1: which is not the same as unconditional tolerance? And how

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Speaker 1: do we hold that bar for one another? And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's how a boy from Calgary came to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fantastic of all the bars, and your Instagram was how

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Speaker 1: we found you.

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Speaker 2: Ali actually told me about.

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Speaker 3: It many years ago. Yeah, I don't know how I

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Speaker 3: stumbled upon it. I was saying in the open it.

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Speaker 3: What immediately struck me is that you weren't you weren't

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Speaker 3: just giving advice. You were talking about what you had learned.

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Speaker 3: You said it in such a bold and honest way,

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Speaker 3: with lots of swear words that I was immediately captivated.

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is great, Like this guy's real,

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Speaker 3: Like this guy's really honest and just calling bookshit on himself.

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Speaker 3: And then it was like, Cam, check this out. And

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Speaker 3: then that sparked conversation with us, and so yeah, And

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Speaker 3: that was when you were just a mere one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand followers or so on Instagram. And I look at

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Speaker 3: you now, so.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: So, mate, what is you've got create the love? Can

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Speaker 2: you give us an idea? What is the most surprising

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Speaker 2: thing you've learnt about love?

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Speaker 1: You know, early in my exploration of all of this,

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Speaker 1: although in hindsight I can see that it was obvious,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look back and you're like, should

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Speaker 1: have figured that out?

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Speaker 4: Then that would have been helpful? Is that to me?

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Speaker 1: Like love is just telling the truth, Like love is

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Speaker 1: being with what's real. And you know, when my wife

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Speaker 1: and I we've been together now going on nine years.

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Speaker 1: But in our first relationship we were together four years

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Speaker 1: and then we broke up, and then we were apart

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Speaker 1: for nine ten months. But what we realized in the

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Speaker 1: coming back together and even actually in the departing, what

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Speaker 1: was so beautiful about the departing. It was like there

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Speaker 1: was just we were coming to the reality that we

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Speaker 1: just couldn't make this work to you know, intentional loving

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Speaker 1: caring people, as that saying goes like, love is sometimes

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Speaker 1: not enough. You know, you have a timing thing, you

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Speaker 1: have wounds that are bumping up against each other that

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Speaker 1: you don't know the way through. And we realized that

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Speaker 1: when we made telling each other the truth ahead of

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Speaker 1: needing to stay together, we were actually free. Like then

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Speaker 1: our choice was now free to be made. And the

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Speaker 1: argument I make to people today a lot is if

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Speaker 1: you don't have access to and know, if you don't

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Speaker 1: have access to discernment about what you want to create

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Speaker 1: in your relationship or your life in general, then you're

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Speaker 1: yes is actually not real, it's not authentic. So your

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Speaker 1: choice has always come with small print. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: I'd say the greatest thing I've learned is that, like

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Speaker 1: all of my relationships, when we put truth ahead of everything,

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Speaker 1: and of course there's subjective and objective truth, but that

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Speaker 1: there's the space for the subjectivity within the objectivity. So

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Speaker 1: there is that I'm actually curious about what comes up

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Speaker 1: for my partner. One of the rules for principles of

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Speaker 1: liberated love that my wife and I talk about is

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Speaker 1: if something's coming up for one of us, it's coming

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Speaker 1: up for both of us.

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Speaker 4: We just might not know it yet.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, So there's like a wisdom in the trigger themen,

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Speaker 1: in what's in the resistance, and that's really served us

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Speaker 1: well because instead of orienting to that from like, what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with me? That this is coming up for me

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Speaker 1: and it's not coming up for you, Instead we're like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's right with you? That this is coming forward, and

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Speaker 1: let's just get curious about it, even if that makes

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Speaker 1: me defensive, even if that makes it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: especially if it makes me defensive, you know, because there's

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Speaker 1: always some truth in these things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, understanding why the defensiveness is coming up. I

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Speaker 3: actually remember when you broke up with your now beautiful wife, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Always been stalking you, No, I've just.

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Speaker 5: Been watching and I remember that feeling great, and I

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Speaker 5: remember that feeling of like, oh no, like the expert's

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Speaker 5: broken up.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm sure many many, many people. And then

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Speaker 3: it was really exciting when you got back together, hence marriage,

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Speaker 3: and now you've got a beautiful little one. Did it

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Speaker 3: keep you more accountable in any way? Or is it

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Speaker 3: more challenging doing that publicly? Did you think that changed

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Speaker 3: the experience at all by being that honest on a

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Speaker 3: social media platform?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think for me it might be different than

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Speaker 1: my wife's experience. Is certainly the challenge of I'm teaching

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Speaker 1: relationship and my relationships ending that comes up, of course,

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Speaker 1: because it gets projected on you too. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I was single and I started teaching relationship, people would

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Speaker 1: say to me, well, why would we listen to you

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Speaker 1: your single, to which I would say, well, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to, And that's the beautiful thing. And the other

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Speaker 1: part is that's also operating under the premise that people

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Speaker 1: in relationships are good at them and people who aren't aren't,

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Speaker 1: you know, so that your relationship status is indicative of

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Speaker 1: your success, which I would say is maybe a marker

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Speaker 1: of it, but certainly not the truth. But the second

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Speaker 1: thing is that I had always lived My challenge is

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Speaker 1: pretty out loud.

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Speaker 4: So there was like, to.

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Speaker 1: Me, it was like the way that Kylie and I

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Speaker 1: navigated our ending was so filled with such love and

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Speaker 1: reverence that I would say deep in my relationship with

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Speaker 1: the people who followed my work, and they also got

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Speaker 1: to witness that you didn't have to choose sides.

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Speaker 4: You didn't have to.

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Speaker 1: Like there was a way that love could exist when

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Speaker 1: the relationship changes its shape or what the structure of

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Speaker 1: the relationship is. And so it was definitely challenging because

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Speaker 1: you don't want because what happens a lot, you know,

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Speaker 1: as I would hear people, well like if you guys

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Speaker 1: broke up, like we're fucking yeah, like we really like,

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Speaker 1: why can't you just work it out? Everything can work out,

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Speaker 1: Like it was like their own dreams and fantasies and

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Speaker 1: hopes and Disney movies. We're resting on our relationship. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I was like, great, that's good for you

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Speaker 1: that it's coming up, because you know, we're just living

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Speaker 1: out a fear you have. But hopefully you can witness

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Speaker 1: how we've walked through this to see that there's actually

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Speaker 1: nothing to be afraid of. Because love's not on the line.

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Speaker 1: And I would say that that actually set us up

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Speaker 1: to come back together.

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Speaker 4: You know, unknowingly.

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Speaker 2: You've credited your relationship with your wife and had a child,

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Speaker 2: how as having the child has it changed your relationship

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Speaker 2: with CALLI.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean realistically, you know, you guys have kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, the you go from being a couple to

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Speaker 1: being a family, and so there's a true transformation that happens.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that I think has been really powerful

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Speaker 1: is noticing how important being a couple and staying a

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Speaker 1: couple is, like, is that you are each other's priority first,

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Speaker 1: and also navigating the complexities of like shit, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was a really good communicator till I got really tired,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so realizing that I remember stand Tech

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Speaker 1: and saying to me, he's a famous psychologist. He said

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Speaker 1: to me, well, everything that comes up when you have

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Speaker 1: a kid is things that they were not resolved before.

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Speaker 4: They're just amplified by And I was like.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay, I mean I can I can get down

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Speaker 1: with that, Like this is just the gym. I'm just

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Speaker 1: in the This is more of the things that I

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Speaker 1: need to learn. And so my wife and I were

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Speaker 1: very transparent about each other's process and that like we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with postpartum hormones and we're dealing with all the

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Speaker 1: complexities of having a child that we don't know what

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Speaker 1: the hell we're doing, you know. And I think it

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Speaker 1: also brought up like how important community is and how

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Speaker 1: little we're often supported or we've built systems in order

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Speaker 1: to support mother and father and child. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: definitely changed our relationship, but in a way it's deepened

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Speaker 1: it a lot.

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Speaker 2: Is a boy or girl a boy jasper and how

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Speaker 2: old's jasper? He's thirteen months And the sleep tap profession

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Speaker 2: is absolutely part of it, and how to get the

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Speaker 2: thoughts together when you've been up all not changing dapas.

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Speaker 1: I've ben lucky though, like Kylie has been mainly co

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Speaker 1: sleeping and one night I got back from a trip

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Speaker 1: and she was like, I got back pretty late and

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Speaker 1: I was tired, and I said, hey, can I I'm

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Speaker 1: going to sleep on my own in this other bed

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Speaker 1: right now, but I'll sleep with you tomorrow night.

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Speaker 4: I'm co sleeping with him.

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Speaker 1: I was always like kind of afraid I was going

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Speaker 1: to bump them or because you know, if you wake them,

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Speaker 1: you're in trouble.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She The next day, I go to Sata like I'm

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Speaker 1: building up the courage to say, like, hey, I had

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Speaker 1: a pretty good sleep last night, Like what do you

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Speaker 1: think about me staying in a different bed? And she's

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Speaker 1: she says to me when I get into the room, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jasper and I slept pretty good last night,

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Speaker 1: and like, what do you think about like? And I

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Speaker 1: was like, I mean, if you really need me to,

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Speaker 1: I could do that. I could stay in that other room.

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Speaker 1: So the sleeping has actually not been too bad.

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Speaker 2: I got to say that. She's like, we've only just

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Speaker 2: figured this out.

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Speaker 3: We've been married for thirty two years, by the way,

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Speaker 3: so we've been through many seasons of marriage.

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Speaker 2: They're out of the house now, except for our ten

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Speaker 2: year old, who seems to be more out of the

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Speaker 2: house than not in the house now. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: fellas get older, I'm gonna throw old fellows under the

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Speaker 2: bus here the old snoring wants it comes in and

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Speaker 2: you trial lots of things I haven't done. The sleepet machine.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to draw the line of that. But it's

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Speaker 2: become a bit of a you know, well, honey, you

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Speaker 2: sleep in that room and I'll sleep in this journal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll and then all of a sudden everyone's sleeping good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you're happy.

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Speaker 1: Then I love it.

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Speaker 3: It's really important.

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Speaker 6: Well, I also think that we don't like if you

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Speaker 6: don't make it mean things like of like comparing it

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Speaker 6: to quote unquote traditional Yeah, it's like and you have

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Speaker 6: the space for us right now.

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Speaker 1: This is the setup that works best for me to

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Speaker 1: be able to show up in my brain work and

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Speaker 1: like for her to show up and him get and

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Speaker 1: so we like take turns during the day taking care

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Speaker 1: of him and relieve her if she needs of course

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Speaker 1: needs an app or something, and we have support. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's sleeping in separate beds. I hear that a lot

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Speaker 1: about couples. Now, Actually that's it. I have a friend

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Speaker 1: who's getting married and it's their second marriage. They both

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Speaker 1: have sons who are in their late teens, and they're

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Speaker 1: living separate places and they're getting married at the end

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Speaker 1: of the month. And he was saying to me, well,

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Speaker 1: we're not getting in the same place, like I haven't.

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Speaker 1: My wife has no interest in living with three men. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was laughing about it. Yes, Look I get it,

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Speaker 1: it works. Why change much and that's right.

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Speaker 2: This is the thing that I have struggled with so much.

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Speaker 2: My mum and dad have been together sixty three years

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Speaker 2: and they still sleep in the same bed. They live

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Speaker 2: in a two bedroom cottage. They're very happy. Yes, they

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Speaker 2: have the typical things that go on in a relationship.

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Speaker 2: That's been my example of relationship is my mum and dad.

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Speaker 2: So when things have changed in our relationship and evolved,

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Speaker 2: like say, honey, can you sleep in the other room

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Speaker 2: so I can sleep, I've really railed against it, and

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Speaker 2: I've struggled with it, and you know, I've had my

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Speaker 2: moments of real stress and this is not why it

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Speaker 2: should be. And other times I'm very accepting of it.

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Speaker 2: Here's a question for you. How do you differentiate between

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Speaker 2: healthy compromise and sacrificing of needs in relationship? How do

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Speaker 2: you solve that?

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Speaker 1: Such a good question, because I would argue that the

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Speaker 1: majority of people sacrifice their needs in service of a relationship,

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Speaker 1: thinking it's romantic, you know, they think it's the altruistic

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Speaker 1: thing to do. But that's called self abandonment, and that's codependency,

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Speaker 1: you know. And in our book Liberated Love, we define

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Speaker 1: codependency as any relational dynamic where we source safety from

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Speaker 1: something or someone at the cost of our own needs,

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Speaker 1: our own sense of self and overall well being, and

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Speaker 1: really the keywords there at the expense of And so

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Speaker 1: what I would say the difference is is that compromise

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Speaker 1: is in service of the greater needs of the relationship.

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Speaker 1: So what we're giving up, we recognize is actually in

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Speaker 1: service of the expansion of the relationship and the connection. Now,

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Speaker 1: the catch to this is that self sacrifice or self

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Speaker 1: abandonment would probably be accompanied with resentment, So you would

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Speaker 1: know that because sometimes we don't know that we're giving

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Speaker 1: up something really important to us till it shows up

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Speaker 1: after And that's actually the value of emotion and resentment

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Speaker 1: is one hundred percent of the time because you are

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Speaker 1: prioritizing something or someone over you.

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Speaker 4: So resentment is always a great.

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Speaker 1: Indicator where you're violating your own values, your own boundaries,

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Speaker 1: your own needs. The key I will say that really

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Speaker 1: healthy couples do when compromise is negotiated by one or

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Speaker 1: both people to meet one person's need or one person's

431
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: need more than the other, is that the relationship holds

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Speaker 1: space for the loss that it actually can hold the

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Speaker 1: grief because a lot of the times the other partner

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Speaker 1: might feel a sense of guilt for being prioritized or

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Speaker 1: for asking of this thing, and so they actually, because

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Speaker 1: of the guilt and the shame they have, they actually

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Speaker 1: can't hold space for the loss and the processing the

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Speaker 1: other person wants to have. So that the container of

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Speaker 1: the relationship holds both people's experiences and it's prioritizing the

440
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: growth of the relationship and compromise. Also can say like,

441
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 1: let's try this. I'm a little afraid of this, but

442
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: can we check back in because it might not be

443
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: what I want, it might be different.

444
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 4: And that way, you're you're.

445
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: Realizing that the connection, as you guys have experienced over

446
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: thirty two years, you're not the same people you were

447
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: thirty two years ago. You know, I'm not the same

448
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: person I was last week. Just to keep things interesting

449
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: for my wife, I like, you know.

450
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: Yep, you do an Irish accent and you know call

451
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: yourself petty.

452
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: I think it's all she cannot stand when I do it.

453
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 4: I it's funny.

454
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: I was like, babe, think about it, like so many

455
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 1: people like you get to date so many dude, right,

456
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: and you're with one dude, this my German one really.

457
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: Gets You're on different pages on that one. Well, when

458
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 3: she goes through menopause and she becomes a completely different woman,

459
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 3: then you'll get to be married to someone else as well,

460
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: so it'll be fair play.

461
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 4: We'll bring comedic relief.

462
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: There you go, bring you'll need it.

463
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: Speaking of humor and having fun, is that a key

464
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: to sort of maintaining emotional intimacy when there is challenges

465
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: in the relationship or is there Is it just simply

466
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 3: again about being honest and communication.

467
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: No, Like, I mean, I think we don't want to

468
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: remove the joy that is required between connections, right, And

469
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: I think a lot about the research of long distance

470
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: relationships how they're often more successful or more satisfying, and

471
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: it's because you're constantly on adventures. You know, you're still

472
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: curious about each other, but you're actually sharing curious adventures

473
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: of the world. If we just brought that insatiable desire

474
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: for the exploration of mystery into our relationships, we'd all

475
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: benefit from what we often shame or think is not

476
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: a great relational structure. With that said, yeah, humor, I mean,

477
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: in the research, humor is one of the best ways

478
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: to resolve or dissolve tension and conflict. I think the

479
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 1: key is, and you know I'm formally guilty of this,

480
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: is using humor as a way to deflect vulnerability or

481
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: to deflect responsibility. So you know where satire or sarcasm

482
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: is being used in a way that's that's passive and

483
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: actually trying to get out of discomfort myself and my

484
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: own vulnerability. So you know, I think humor was used

485
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: a lot by me as a kid, you know, where

486
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: I felt uncomfortable in class or something. I became the

487
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: quote unquote class clown. So I think a lot of

488
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: the things we do, which I'm naming one survival strategy

489
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: that we might have using humor, perfectionism could be another one.

490
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: And these are really things that we call our personality,

491
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: but they're adaptive strategies. And these adaptive strategy I believe

492
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: are really over developed skill sets, you know, because hypervigilance,

493
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: people pleasing caretaking. These are often skills that make people

494
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: really good at being a nurse or a doctor, or

495
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: a coach, or a therapist or a dietitian. So they're

496
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: graded intuiting other people's needs. But when it's still correlated

497
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: to our self worth and when it's still correlated to

498
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: trying to prevent ourselves from experiencing fear, a lack of safety,

499
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: a disconnection, vulnerability, openness right, because not just bad triggers,

500
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: but good triggers. The vulnerability can be a trigger because

501
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: we don't trust it. So when we take these over

502
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: developed strategies that we use for survival and we actually

503
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: stop sourcing worth from them, because if I'm someone who

504
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: caretakes people and I charge money for that, but I

505
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: still need you to need me, I'm going to have

506
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: a hard time creating the type of education or structure

507
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: in our relationship that you're going to.

508
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 4: Be free eventually.

509
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

510
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: And so that's why not to say that there isn't

511
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: a need for consistent intervention with something, but eventually someone

512
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: should need to grow away from the requirement for something,

513
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: right like once you've learned the thing and integrated the thing.

514
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: So I say all that because like when actually seen

515
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: as the genius, it is through the over development is

516
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: actually brilliant. But you look at like stand up comics,

517
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: often there are people who have some of you know,

518
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: the most like shadow experiences. It can be a way

519
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: to not be with hard feelings.

520
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: I don't know about how it is in Canada, but

521
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: it's certainly in Australia. I think it's the most popular

522
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: show is a show called Married at First Sight.

523
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know that show.

524
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's crazy concept.

525
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 1: That's the most popular I think it is.

526
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you know, and people become stars from

527
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: it today. And one of the big clickbity things in

528
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: it which they tend to go to is the word cheating.

529
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: And it seems such a big thing today. I hear

530
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: about a lot where couples are falling out of love

531
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: because of a lack of trust. Do you have strategies

532
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: to rebuild trust in a relationship.

533
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, in the context of infidelity, but I think we

534
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: could speak about any violation of just any betrayal. Infidelity

535
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: is certainly a tough one because, you know, the first

536
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: thing I always say to a couple, which is always contextual,

537
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: but it's like the cheater's not the villain, you know,

538
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: like we have to as soon as we make them

539
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: the villain, then there's no opportunity for them to repair

540
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: or come back or even step towards the shame. Now,

541
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: if someone's hearing me say that, that could be triggering

542
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: for them because they could be very much betrayed and

543
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: villainized by someone who's cheating.

544
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 4: I get it.

545
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: Also, the reason people cheat is so complex because sometimes

546
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: someone can leave a relationship within the relationship, and the

547
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: relationship is so void of any intimacy and connection. Sometimes

548
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: unconsciously we want someone to cheat so that we can

549
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: leave them, and then when they do it, we get

550
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: to act really offended, and then we want to work

551
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: it out. I mean, the human nature is just so

552
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: fucked up the things that we like we do unconsciously

553
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: we want to break up with that one they break

554
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: up with us, and now we want them like it's

555
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: just the wildest thing, right, But what an opportunity to

556
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: play out our wounds and heel. So I say all

557
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: that because the healing of betrayal. What I will say

558
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: in my own experience and what I know to be

559
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: true but I'm open to be wrong about it, is

560
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: that every external betrayal is preceded by an internal betrayal.

561
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: As in, like, when you finally get to this and

562
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: we're going to just actually like add a caveat here,

563
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: We're not talking about narcissistic, sociopathic, manipulative, gas lighting, chronic

564
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: cheating people. I would argue that they are not really

565
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: it's not possible to repair with them unless they're doing

566
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: their own deep work with a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

567
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 4: There's no possible.

568
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: Repair when both people are not in the compair. One

569
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: is performative and the other is authentic, and no possible

570
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: relationship can exist with one performing another authentic. So the

571
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: betrayal itself when both people are ready to actually move

572
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: through it that recognition that usually you bypassed or dishonored

573
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: or ignored a feeling before that required you to betray

574
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: yourself that then.

575
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 4: Led to the betrayal of the relationship.

576
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Does that make sense yep. So what I see with

577
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: that is like, maybe you didn't speak up. Maybe you

578
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: tolerated a behavior that wasn't okay. Maybe you were starting

579
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: to not honor your own values, your own needs and

580
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: instead of actually and you agreed to relational circumstances that

581
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: weren't something you actually wanted. I say all this because,

582
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: like I remember, I was dating this woman in university.

583
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: I was super in love with her.

584
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: She got a scholarship to go to a different school

585
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: in the United States for sports, and we agreed that

586
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: we could see other people. We'd just tell each other.

587
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do that, but I agreed to that. Yeah,

588
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: And then five months later she's coming back home to

589
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: visit with a guy who's a friend of hers, who

590
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: she's you know, having a quote unquote affair with, cheating

591
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: on you with. But that is the exact circumstance you

592
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: end up in when you agree to something you shouldn't

593
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: have agreed to. You violated your own values, your own needs,

594
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: your own wants. So if we can actually see where

595
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: the early betrayals are, we can start to take responsibility

596
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: for our side too. And what has to also be

597
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: created in the space of repairing any sort of betrayal

598
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: and of gain, as we were mentioning, not just something

599
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: to do with infidelity, is that there has to be

600
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: a toning.

601
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: There has to be a toning.

602
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: For what the violation of the relationship, the injury to

603
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: the relationship. And when we're actually saying we're going to

604
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: work through this, the person who is, let's say, the

605
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: victim of those circumstances gets to say what actually they

606
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: need in order to rebuild trust. And the thing is

607
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: is that the other person, let's say I need access

608
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: to your phone, I need you to end this relationship.

609
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: I need to see the message. I want to talk

610
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: to them. Like, we can have all types of requests

611
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: and they're all valid. The other person gets to say no,

612
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: And if they say no and it doesn't align for you,

613
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: then you have to be willing to walk away because

614
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: trust can't be rebuilt unless the requests you're making can

615
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: be actually resolved or negotiated right in a way that

616
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: feels good for us. If for someone who bypasses our

617
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: own needs and our own wants, I would argue that

618
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: that might still occur in the repair process. So it's like,

619
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: can we use the pain of the betrayal to actually

620
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: stand in what we truly desire and stop abandoning ourselves?

621
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: Like that's what I see so often in those circumstances and.

622
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 4: A lot of the times within betrayal.

623
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: And I know it's such a complex conversation about cheating,

624
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: but it's like both people forgot about the relationship long ago,

625
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: the intimacy within the relationship. Sometimes people cheat the relationships

626
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: because it's like burning a bridge they don't want to

627
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: go back to, right, Like sometimes people cheat because they

628
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: feel like they want more attention in the relationship, and

629
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: they're not getting it there, they're not feeling hurt. Again,

630
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: none of it is validating the choice to betray because

631
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: that is, you know, that's.

632
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: What always here.

633
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: You always have another choice other than cheating. Sure, but

634
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 1: if society shames leaving relationships and the only way you

635
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: unconsciously know how to leave it is to cheap because

636
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: you know society will then support the leaving of you,

637
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: then that becomes unconsciously your only option. Now obviously it's

638
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: not consciously you're only option. But if your community is

639
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: going to exile you, if you leave somebody and that

640
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: feels too painful to do by choice, then you might

641
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: just burn it all down. Yeah again into human nature.

642
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: And it is so interesting because it gets so many

643
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: people's hackles out. Yeah, because I guess you took pretty

644
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: much anyone they've had an experience of being betrayed.

645
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: It's a trauma, you know, being betrayed as a trauma.

646
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I guess that's like anything, isn't it.

647
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: Because the trauma of childhood, the experiences of your life

648
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: leading into that relationship, is pretty much always going to

649
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: play a part in how you relate to the other

650
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: person anyway, you're pretty much not that you're guaranteed to

651
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: have a relationship that's messed up, But of course that's

652
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: going to interplay with how you relate to your significant other.

653
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if like if your community or your parent

654
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: or parents didn't model how to work through trauma and

655
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: how to work through the experience you had, you know,

656
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: because of course there are people who go through tremendous

657
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: traumas who can completely chester life and have really healthy relationships.

658
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: So it's really like, can we hold the space as

659
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: a community or a family for what someone has been through? Like,

660
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: look at how many families are don't talk about dad's alcoholism,

661
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: don't talk about mom's infidelity, don't talk about the uncle

662
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: who touches who had touched people. We organize our systems

663
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: around not pointing to the truth. So everyone's adaptive strategy

664
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: is to keep the system alive so no one points

665
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: at the elephant in the room. And then you finally

666
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: have the black sheep of the family who's like, hey,

667
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: what about this thing, And they're like, yay.

668
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 4: We don't do that.

669
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: You're going to have to go Yeah, And that's why

670
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: I think, like the black sheep of the family often

671
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: are the people who are actually inviting.

672
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: The healing of the family.

673
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah and so yeah, like, if we don't confront what's unconfronted,

674
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: we will confront it in our adult relationships.

675
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: Okay, Mark, So how does the black sheep make the

676
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: difference with the people that do not want to accept

677
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: what they're especially in taught families. Like someone's throwing a

678
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: grenade in a taught family, right, and the victim becomes

679
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: the you're the one who missed.

680
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: This up rather than the victim keeping it quiet. What

681
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 3: the betrayal is becomes.

682
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: The victim's fault or can they be reparation from them?

683
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: Well, first, let me just give the context to that.

684
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: No matter what I say, will never be enough to

685
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: like actually acknowledge the pain of that type of eruptor

686
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: especially when a family has not been orienting around reality

687
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: and the truth and so we're like, we're the family

688
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: that never fights, but then you realize that there's something

689
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: operating underneath the system of the family. So just the

690
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: pain of the rupture just needs to be acknowledged. Now,

691
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: with that said, I'll say that it depends on what

692
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: the definition of healing is, because what we often do

693
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: is when the system's been disrupted, and this could be

694
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship, I can all of a sudden say.

695
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 4: Hey, I miss you. I feel like we take each

696
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 4: other for granted.

697
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: That's reality that I'm pointing to that we haven't talked

698
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: about in ten years, and there's been a ton of

699
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: build up of resentment, and we don't communicate, we don't

700
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: have intimacy anymore. So I'm like the black sheep of

701
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: our relationship. I'm bringing forward the thing our system has

702
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: been orienting around not talking about through busyness and other

703
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: jobs and kids and whatever it might be. So I'm

704
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: actually saying, in service of this relationship and in service

705
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: of love, I'm interested in actually building something with you

706
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: that oscillates around these values respect, honesty, curiosity, and a

707
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: mutual desire for growth. Right, So, if I'm bringing forward

708
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: a truth to a family that causes disruption in the family,

709
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: what the system does is it attacks the person changing

710
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: the system because now everyone has to get out of

711
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: their functional role in the system. So what it then

712
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: shakes everyone's system because they're like, oh fuck, I haven't

713
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: resolved this in my current adult relationships. I do this

714
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: in my adult relationships. My whole life is about taking

715
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: care of everybody else.

716
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: This is what we do.

717
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: Now, you're forcing them to look at everything in their

718
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: life that's like that. Now for the person who's going

719
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: through like we had a really tight family and now

720
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: I'm the problem. I'm the one who's caused.

721
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 4: All of this.

722
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: That could be because we're someone who doesn't have the

723
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: past deed to hold, which is what I would say

724
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: is like externalized shame, right, because you have the shame

725
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: from the family saying you're the one causing all of this.

726
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 4: Even though you've pointed to a truth.

727
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: Right.

728
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: So if we can actually hold and find community outside

729
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: of our family that can hold us in the transition,

730
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: that will be the most important part. Because what's happening

731
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: is the systems around us are starting to reorganize around

732
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 1: what we're offering to them, which is, hey, there's another way.

733
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: We're going to have to go through some growing pains

734
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: to get there, and we're going to have to actually

735
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: start to confront some things we've all been avoiding. But

736
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: if you're on board, I'm on board, and I stand

737
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: for love and I stand for truth, and this is

738
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: what this looks like and if you speak to me

739
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: that way, I'm going to have to hang up the phone.

740
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: But when you're ready, I'm here for you. If you're

741
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: ready to have this conversation in a loving and safeway

742
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: that might not be available on a phone, but that

743
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: could be available through email. And if you say to

744
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: someone like just think about if you were to say

745
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: to anybody relationally, I love you. I'm committed to respectful dialogue.

746
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: I'm committed to creating something really beautiful within us.

747
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 4: I'm committed to.

748
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: Healing together and I'm committed to doing that in a

749
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: way that honors both of us. And I'm commimitted to

750
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: creating a shared space that's safe for us to do that.

751
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: What does that look like for you? What does that

752
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 4: look like for me? Are you in now? Most people

753
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: would be.

754
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: Like, oh shit, I'm like praying for a reasship like that,

755
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: Like I wish someone would say that to me.

756
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: So imagine if.

757
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: I bring that to any dialogue where there is challenges, frustrations,

758
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: s ruptures. If someone says no to that, it's their

759
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: lack of capacity to the old repair. But if I

760
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: could just say, like, this is the standard I'm holding,

761
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm not asking anyone to get a small shrink be

762
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: in their adaptive strategy. I'm actually asking them to heal

763
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: and to come forward and be committed to love. That's

764
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: being committed to truth, right, and so that is an

765
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: offer that the system then will have to orient around again.

766
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: Now here's the hard human behavior pain of this is, like,

767
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: you have the like, but this is my biological family,

768
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: and like I need to be a member of them

769
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: so that I'm safe. That's why it's so important that

770
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: we have to have an other community that's able to

771
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: say to us, you're not crazy. What you're standing for

772
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: is actually so important. We got you, We're not going anywhere,

773
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: and we love you even more.

774
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 4: For what you stand for.

775
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: Like you are actually a testament to healing.

776
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 4: You are a testament to love.

777
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: And I know it might not feel like that right now,

778
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: but what do you need from us to help support

779
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: you as you hold change? Like what gets in the

780
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: way of a human hold changing is their nervous system's capacity.

781
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: To hold change. That comes with everything.

782
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: So the way that we increase our capacity to hold

783
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: change is to have community.

784
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 4: If you could just know that.

785
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: When you need somebody, you can call them or they'll

786
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: come over, or they'll stand at your side when you're

787
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: about to collapse your boundary or take some bullshit that

788
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: you just know that you have someone on your side.

789
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: What will happen is you'll start to orient around health

790
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: and healthy relating, and then you'll realize that the standard

791
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: you've set for yourself, you're not actually going to compromise anymore.

792
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: Everything comes back to do you have access to choice?

793
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: And there's a saying that the opposite of trauma is

794
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: choice because traumas are unexpected things generally that happen to

795
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: us that we don't have like, it's unexpected. So if

796
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: there's a betrayal that happens, I find out about it,

797
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: it's unexpected. It comes out of nowhere. I get broken

798
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: up with it comes out of nowhere. Often what I'll

799
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: try to do is double down on things I can control.

800
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: I'll become that could spark eating disorders, that could spark addiction,

801
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: that could spark fitness obsessions because or religious obsessions, because

802
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we want to control the things

803
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: we can control and try to predict life. We're trying

804
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: to Carolyn Ma says this great saying that our traumas

805
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: and our wounds are trying to control the pace at

806
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: which life unfolds, so we try to move at the

807
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: pace of the wound. Yeah, and I think that's just

808
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: such a brilliant way of seeing how this stuff can occur.

809
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: So all that that was very long answered, dear question.

810
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 2: It's a great answer, though.

811
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad we're recording others i'd be writing it

812
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: down just to change topic ever so slightly. What's your

813
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: take on how technology and social media in modern relationships

814
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: affect them and is there boundaries that couples should have

815
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: to establish their continued connection. I guess to each other,

816
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: I mean other than just put the fucking phone down,

817
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: which is often what we say to each other. Well,

818
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: not quite as mean as that, but no, I hear you.

819
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: I'm railing against it enormously at the moment. And I

820
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: was listening to a Brene Brown podcast and I came

821
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: home to cam and I was like, that's it. I

822
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: realize how angry I actually get when someone picks up

823
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: the phone when I'm in conversation with them, and I

824
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 3: sort of like I would put it aside and keep talking,

825
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: but internally I am like combusting because I just feel

826
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: like someone's gone, You're not important, I don't care what

827
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 3: you got to say, and I'm out of here, and

828
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: it's like it's the third person in the relationship that

829
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to see. Sorry, that was just my

830
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: spiel on it. All right, I'm done.

831
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 4: No, No, I think it's I think it's great.

832
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: I think it's great, and I think it really is

833
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: pointing to a really important value that you're coming to

834
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: your awareness of like how important it is and how

835
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: you know. I don't know if it's something that's recent

836
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: or like maybe it's a childhood thing, like this sense

837
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: ofivity to being important, the sensitivity to feeling like maybe

838
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: you weren't attended to in the way that you.

839
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 4: Felt like it was required.

840
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: So there's a hypersensitivity to it, which is not minimizing

841
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: the true need for it, right, But that like your

842
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: hypervigilance is because you know that this is the canarian

843
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: the coal mine, Like this is the thing that leads

844
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: to the experience of disconnection and not valuing each other.

845
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: And then what happens when we don't value each other

846
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: We lose one another or connections dissipate, and is like

847
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: really the message people send when they're on a conversation

848
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: and they're like.

849
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

850
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: It is this experience of there is possibly something more

851
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: exciting or interesting happening right now here, and what's happening here?

852
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: In the research, when a phone is faced down on

853
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: a table, people are less vulnerable, So we know that's true.

854
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: And that doesn't even take research.

855
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: Like people understand that there's like a pole that's constantly happening.

856
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: Is there's something exciting as someone need me? Is there

857
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: a compliment here? Is there new news that will give

858
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: me a flood of endorphins? Is is there more rage

859
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: available to me? Is there more disagreement? Is there more

860
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: ideological fuel for the fire? How mad is everyone at

861
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: Trump today? You know, like all these kinds of stuff,

862
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I think that technology has been beautiful.

863
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: I met my wife on Instagram. I built so much

864
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: of my business through technology, So I think like it

865
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: needs to have constant growth and more profits. So the

866
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: only way to make more profit and more growth is

867
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: to extract more attention. So you insert things like a

868
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: doom scroll. You insert algorithms that don't give you the

869
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: content you say you want, they give you the content

870
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: you're Amigdala wants. So when someone says to me, can

871
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: you have a healthy relationship with social media? What does

872
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: that look like? I would say right now, what I

873
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: think is Drew might change is that it's actually not designed.

874
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: For you to have a healthy relationship with it.

875
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: It's actually not the purpose of it. I think from

876
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: a somatic nervous system perspective, there's something that's going on

877
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: with it that is not even the canary and the

878
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: coal mine anymore. It is now the miners die, and

879
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: it is the pervasive anxiety, and it's that. So yeah,

880
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: that's I don't know that there is, but I'm living

881
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: the question.

882
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 3: Last question, I just want you to have a little

883
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 3: chat about your beautiful book that you've written with your wife,

884
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 3: Liberated Love, release codependent patterns, and create the love you desire.

885
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 3: Can you just tell us more about that?

886
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: Ah Man, Well, the book was so incredible to write

887
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: with my wife.

888
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 4: It was hard to write.

889
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: It was good preparation for having a kid, you know,

890
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: because you have two creative worlds coming together, two ways

891
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: of language, two lenses to everything, creating this separate thing.

892
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: It's like a kid, except the kid has a feedback loop. Now,

893
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: the book, like really is about one the journey everyone

894
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, we believe is necessary for everyone to walk

895
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: in terms of understanding what shapes why they do what

896
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: they do in relationship. Here's the frameworks like attachment and

897
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: how that shows up in the nervous system. But then

898
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: how do you change, Like what are the actual steps

899
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: you can take to actually change the way you relate?

900
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: And we overarch a bit of our story from relationship

901
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: one point zero, we call it the Sacred Pause, which

902
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: is our breakup, and then relationship two point zero, and

903
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: really what we're speaking to in all of these is like,

904
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: what is your current whether you're single, dating, or in

905
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: a relationship. You're married, you're not sure you want to

906
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: stay together, or you're not sure you can find your person?

907
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: What are the behaviors you currently have? Let's take a

908
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: second regroup. What do we want to create? How do

909
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: we create that? And what's possible for relationship when we

910
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: create that? And you know, I have no word. I've

911
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: not just written the book. I've done the book like

912
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: I've worked I've worked the steps. It sounds like right

913
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: like I've done everything within the book. And so I

914
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: know that if you read the book and you do

915
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: everything that's in the book. You can completely change your

916
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: relationships in your life. And really the core premise of

917
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: liberated love is having this fierce dedication to truth, this

918
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: honoring of each other's path as your own first, and

919
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: then there's this deep sense of positive respect and regard

920
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: and reverence for your partner that that is actually operating

921
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: at the baseline that the things that come up for

922
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: you relationally are needing to come up because they need

923
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: to be resolved to go to the next level relationally,

924
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: whether that's together or not, it still requires being confronted.

925
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: And if we see the challenges we have relationally as

926
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: material that needs to be worked with, that's such a

927
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: different way of orienting to it instead of being ashamed

928
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: of it or like mad at it, or able to

929
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: be like, ah, what is this asking of me? Like

930
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: what's required of me to move through this? And that's

931
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: such a different way to orient a relationship.

932
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. Mike, thank you for your time and your

933
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: generosity with us and our listener today. It's been amazing.

934
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: We'll go on record, and so we could have gone

935
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: for another hour. Ye you know, maybe we'll do a

936
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: part two down the road. Would you do that? Of course,

937
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: of course. Yeah, it's been fun. We might put this out.

938
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: Two questions for any of our listeners, because this has

939
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: been really great in the way you explain things. This

940
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: very simple one.

941
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 4: I love you, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me.

942
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much, Mark.

943
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 2: Tom Fool.

944
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 3: There was so much good information in there. There was Wow. Yeah,

945
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to and this will be one to keep

946
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 3: on listening back on for me.

947
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, a couple listeners.

948
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got just a beautiful way of delivering it

949
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 3: as well, because it's I just much prefer you know,

950
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 3: I say this all the time. I want to listen

951
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: to someone who's lived it. That's who I want to

952
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: listen to. I want to listen to someone who's lived it,

953
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 3: who struggled whose challenge and has made their way through

954
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 3: and out the other side, and they can look back

955
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: and go, yeah, I remember when I was like that.

956
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 3: I remember when I messed that up, and this is

957
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: what I learned from it, this is what I'm going

958
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: to share with you. That's that that makes listening to

959
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 3: someone so much easier for me.

960
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: I'm actually looking back at my notes that I wrote

961
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: and it's like I'm going to have to listen back

962
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 2: to the recording. I've just got just got words written down.

963
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: But one way the word that I have for him.

964
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 3: Is golf is not golf, okay.

965
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: But it's something to do with golf, which is authentic,

966
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: you know, and if you swing like your authentic swing,

967
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: you will do well. Now, he's just an authentic guy.

968
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: And I love the way he brought himself pretty much

969
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: what you were saying, he brings himself to it rather

970
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: than speaking from theory. Yeah, yeah, that's right, it's lived.

971
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: I love the bit when he said people who won't

972
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,479
Speaker 2: say no when they say yes, they're not actually telling

973
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: the truth.

974
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 3: Well, it's also that first the first signal that you

975
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: get is as soon as you're feeling resentful, you know

976
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 3: that you've said yes when you should have said no.

977
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 3: That that too is also a great little marker to

978
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: go yep, okay. I thought I was okay with this,

979
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: I'm not okay with this. I've given something up here.

980
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 2: That was a powerful moment. When the resentment is there,

981
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 2: you feel that pang yes, and you're going, oh, okay,

982
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: that's a red flag. Yes, lots to take notice of.

983
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 3: And look, you can find mark on his website, he's

984
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: got his book with his wife, and we've mentioned before

985
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 3: Liberated Love. His podcast is available, so there is ways

986
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: to access mark and we'd love to have him back on,

987
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 3: so maybe we'll do part two.

988
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: Thanks honey, thank you too, Thanks for listening.