1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm joined now in the studio by the new Chief 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Executive of the Business Council of Australia, Brand Black, who 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: is in Adelaide for a function today. Brand, good morning, 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: welcome to five Double A. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having on the show. 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: You're new to the role. What's your background? 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 2: Look, I've worked in a corporate law, I've worked in 8 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 2: the university sector and I've worked in government as well. 9 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: The role that i had before coming into this was 10 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: as chief of staff to the New South Wales Premier 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: Dominic Perrete, as I say in New South Wales, and 12 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: now I've been in this role for coming up to 13 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: twelve months in September. 14 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Okay, what do you see is that the big challenges 15 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 1: facing Australia. 16 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: Look, the biggest challenge that we've got in terms of 17 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 2: a national perspective is our competitiveness. So when you look 18 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: at other jurisdictions like the United States, Canada, our competitors, 19 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: they are very actively looking to try and make their 20 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: investment destination as attractive as possible for capital. In Australia, 21 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: we've always enjoyed numerous advantages. We've got a stable democratic system, 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: got the rule of law, secure property rights, a great 23 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 2: financial system. All those things set us in good stead, 24 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: but incrementally we're seeing that settings around workplace, around planning settings, 25 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: taxation settings, cost of energy and so forth, those types 26 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: of things set us back. And the message that I get, 27 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: particularly from the CEOs that are in my membership, is 28 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: that when they're thinking about is this the right place 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: to do business, it's harder and harder to justify that decision. 30 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: And sometimes the feedback that I get from CEOs here 31 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: that have boards overseas to which they report is that 32 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: when those boards are considering investment proposals from multiple different countries, 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: increasingly those other countries are doing better than we are. 34 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: Okay, you talk to business people as well, and I 35 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: had John Ceeleon recently from Celia Conditioning, long based South 36 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: Australian company moving back from Victoria because of their gas policy, 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: saying to me, for instance, the casualization laws that the 38 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: federal government has introduced, no one's asked for them, no 39 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: one's needed them, just makes doing business harder in terms 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: of employing people. Is that the sort of thing you're 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: talking about. 42 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a great example of that is the 43 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: recent right to disconnect laws. Nobody argues with the idea 44 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: that people should have the right to turn off when 45 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: they get home from work. I mean, I know I enjoyed. 46 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure you do as well. But the idea that 47 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: we need the federal government to impose a blanket rule 48 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: is just a different issue entirely. And it's interesting when 49 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: you think about the way in which that law's come about. 50 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: It was a French proposal. I think it was legislated 51 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen, but importantly that was pre COVID, 52 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: so the world's changed a lot since then. We're embracing 53 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: the idea of working from home. There's more flexibility associated 54 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: with how we work and because of that, our idea 55 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 2: has always been, well, if you're going to have these 56 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: types of discussions about rights to disconnect, do it at 57 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: the employer level so that you can account for the 58 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: particular needs of businesses at the business level. 59 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Let's talk about South Australia. In the fact you're here 60 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: and today, the state government has put out a release 61 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: a media release from the Treasurer saying that your presence 62 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: today links sim with the fact that our payroll tax system, 63 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: they say, is competitive. The state's key role in orcus 64 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: investment in the Prosperity Project of South Australia makes it 65 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: the best place in the nation to do business. That's 66 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: according to the Business Council of Australia. 67 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: That's absolutely correct. Yes, I mean, let me say at 68 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: the outset, payroll tax is a bad tax. It's quite 69 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: literally a tax on companies for employing people, and we 70 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: should never support that type of thing. But every state 71 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: in Australia has a payroll tax. Every state and territory 72 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: has a payroll tax system, and in South Australia the 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: payroll tax rate is the lowest and a threshold at 74 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: which it kicks in is the second highest, which on 75 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: our view makes it the best system for doing business. 76 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: That's got a problem, though, hasn't it, Because we have 77 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: seen here in South Australia a lot of businesses are 78 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: clustering just under that they won't employ more people because 79 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: it will push them over that threshold. 80 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: Well, that goes directly to the point that I was 81 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: making in terms of payroll tax being a bad tax. 82 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: Ideally we'd like to see it dispensed with all together. 83 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: We'd love to see it harmonized as a first step 84 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: across different jurisdictions so that companies don't have the problems 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: of dealing with so many different systems. But if we 86 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: can't do that, or if we could go a step further, 87 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: I should say, we'd love to see it dispensed, but 88 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: to do that we really need federal government assistants. 89 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: Okay, so AUCUST, let's look at that. And there are 90 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: a lot of doubters about UCUS, and Alexander down are 91 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: very experienced, as our longer serving Foreign Affairs Minister, for instance, saying, look, 92 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: the timeline is so great on UCUS, unlikely to ever 93 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: see a sub built here by the time the dates 94 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: roll around. We'd be better off going overseas and buying 95 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: one off the shelf from the UK or the US. 96 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: What's your response to that. 97 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 2: Look, I can understand that there are certainly perceptions of 98 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: risk in terms of AUCUST. Indeed, of course there are 99 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: going to be risks, but we're dealing with sovereign nations 100 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 2: here that have been our strongest allies for so very long, 101 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: you know, decades and decades and decades. And what's very 102 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: clear is that each of these strong allies has made 103 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: it plain that they intend to go through with this commitment, 104 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: and my view is that in light of that, we 105 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: should really do everything that we can to make the 106 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: most of the opportunity. 107 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: Are you going to be South Australia's biggest advocate for 108 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: businesses setting up here because your comments about okay, the 109 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: payroll tax and what you've said about that, but you're 110 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: suggesting that Essay is one of the best places in 111 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: the country to set up our business and operate it. 112 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: That's absolutely correct. So we do a study once a 113 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: year which we call Regulation Rumble, and in that we 114 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: rank the states and territories based on a number of 115 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: different settings, and we do it from two key areas, 116 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: planning and regulatory settings more broadly, and our last report 117 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: came out in twenty twenty three and South Australia won 118 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: on both settings on regulation and on planning. So we 119 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: would say, of course there are going to be challenges 120 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: for businesses. There are challenges that we're experiencing right now 121 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: right across the country. And as I said before, we've 122 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: got issues in terms of our competitiveness. But if you're 123 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: looking to set up a business, you're going to be 124 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: hard pressed to find somewhere better than South Australia. 125 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: About that now skills is one of those challenges, and 126 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: that would be right across the nation. What particular have 127 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: you looked at particular issues we're facing here. 128 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. South Australia of course has always had a problem 129 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: with I guess what to call the brain train, as 130 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 2: you'd be familiar with. And our perspective on that is 131 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: that there are really two ways to try and address it. 132 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 2: The first is, of course, to make sure you've got 133 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: an opportunity so that people aren't thinking to themselves, well, 134 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: if I wish to progress in my career, I've got 135 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: to go somewhere else to do it. And the second 136 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: is making sure you've got the right amenity, so you know, 137 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: the right schools, the right hospitals, the right infrastructure to 138 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: make people think this is a good place for me 139 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: to live and to raise a family. And on both 140 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: those measures we are seeing that Southwsteustralia is dramatically improving. 141 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: So certainly in terms of being a great place to 142 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: have opportunity and progressing your career, there's more scope. In 143 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: terms of UCUS, there's more scope with businesses that are 144 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: setting up shop here. I was touring Lot fourteen yesterday 145 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: and I'm seeing some of what that looks like. And 146 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: then in terms of the humanity as well, you know, 147 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: important connections like the North South Corridor and even things 148 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: like the Port Dock rail link as well that makes 149 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: a big difference to people's quality of life. 150 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Is there anything we're not doing well then that you 151 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: think we should be improving on? 152 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think there's always always scope for improvement, and 153 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: I mean I do stress that whilst we say that, 154 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: for example, payroll tax is in a nation leading position, 155 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you should rest on your laurels. Ideally, 156 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: you should take further steps with respect to the rape, 157 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: further steps with respect to the threshold, as you pointed 158 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: out stamp duty as well. Whilst you've gone already to 159 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: the step of ensuring that it's not going to be 160 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: applied to commercial and industrial, we would say go that 161 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: step further and make sure that there's a transition towards 162 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: a broader based landtax. That's the best way of helping 163 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: people into their first home. 164 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Interest rates at the moment, and more nationally than South Australia, obviously, 165 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank and the Federal Government seemed to be 166 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: sparring quietly with each other as to who's right and 167 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: economic policy and the leavers involved there. I mean, spending 168 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: more money to create opportunities on one hand seems like 169 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: a good idea, but not when you're trying to bring 170 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: interest rates down. 171 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: Look, we have seen more funding and more cash injected 172 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: into the economy come through the latest federal budget, but 173 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: also through state budgets right around the country. I think 174 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: the federal budget saw an additional twenty billion over the 175 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: next two years, twenty four over four, and that's additional 176 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: spend into the economy. But the key thing, the key 177 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: thing that we point to is the fact that our 178 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: productivity is effectively flatlining because the reserve banks made it 179 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: clear that what they want to see is increase productivity. 180 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: That's the best way of ensuring real wage increases. By 181 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: way of example, what we're seeing right now is that 182 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: people are having a wage increase, but that wage increase 183 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: isn't backed by productivity, and what that means has becomes 184 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: by definition, inflationary. So we need to move towards an 185 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: environment which goes back to that point that I was 186 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: making about being competitive, getting the fundamental to right around 187 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: tax and regulation settings and so forth, so that businesses 188 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: invest when they invest, they deliver the productivity gains that 189 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: we need to make sure that ultimately we're improving our 190 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: real wage position for people right around the country and 191 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: that in turn means that our quality of life improves. 192 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: The spending though of governments around the nation. And here 193 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: in South Australia we are predicting over four years a 194 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: forward estimates forty four billion dollars in debt, which works 195 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: out for every South Australian something like twenty five grand 196 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: is what we would all individually owe if we were 197 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: to pay it back. If that was the way it worked, 198 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: then it kind of is because it is our taxes. 199 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: So that's a lot of debt and all states and 200 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: federally we're carrying that as well. That doesn't seem to 201 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: be a great position to be. And yes, you need 202 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: to spend to build things and create jobs, but long term, 203 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: someone's got to pay that back. 204 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: That's absolutely true. I mean, the good thing is South 205 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: Australia is projecting surpluses as well over the course of 206 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: the next few years. But we do need right across 207 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 2: the country, not just in South Australia but in every 208 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: jurisdiction really to make sure that we try and get 209 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: our spending under control so that we can. 210 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: A budget surplus is different to a state debt though. 211 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. But more the 212 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: most fundamental thing that we need to do, of course, 213 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: is remember that at the end of the day, as 214 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: you say, somebody needs to pay this off and we 215 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: want to ensure that we are leaving the best possible 216 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: environment for our kids and their kids. 217 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: Where does the BCA sit on nuclear and the whole 218 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: energy debate renewables versus baseload And it seems to me, 219 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what I said, we need a baseload. Now, 220 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: ultimately I'm not fuss if it's cold gas or nuclear, 221 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: but we need something to shore up renewables. 222 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: Well, I back in that point that you've just made. 223 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: We're not fust either. We take a technology agnostic approach 224 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: to the energy transition. But what we do want to 225 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: see more than anything else is a plan, like a 226 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: genuine long term plan. You know. I was an event 227 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: last night with the Committee for Adelaide and what came 228 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: through from people that were sitting around the table that 229 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: are engaged and working in the energy space, is that 230 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: what they need more than anything else is certainty as 231 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: to what that plan might look like, so that they've 232 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: got the confidence to invest. Now, there's a lot that 233 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: states can do in this respect, and a note that 234 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: the government here has its State Prosperity Plan, which goes 235 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: a long way towards delivering certainty here. But there are 236 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: also federal settings that are so important in the context 237 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: of the energy transition. And what came through in this 238 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: discussion last night was we need to see a federal 239 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: position that they have confidence in in the long term. 240 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so no confidence in what has been proposed currently 241 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: by the federal government now and renewable rollouts. 242 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 2: Their point was that they want to see certainty in 243 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: terms of what that plan looks like. So you know, 244 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: that means having a plan for a starter as to 245 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: know not just the next year or the next two 246 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: years or the next electoral cycle, it's what the long term, 247 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: the ten years plus looks like. Now. I know that 248 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: the government's going through the process now of looking at 249 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: sectoral plans as part of its process of trying to 250 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: set a target for twenty thirty five. But my point 251 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: is more that beyond that, we need to go to 252 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: what are the technology leavers that can be pulled, and 253 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: also what are the policy leavers that need to be 254 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: pulled so that industry can see what they look like 255 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: look like over multiple years and say right, well, this 256 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: is the place for me to invest, not just industry 257 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: here in Australia, but international investors, because that's the best 258 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: way of ensuring we can deliver on the transition. 259 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: So if Peter Dutton is elected, would you be calling 260 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: on state governments with their nuclear policies per state to 261 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: get out of the way. 262 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: Look, our position, as I say, is that we are 263 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: technologically agnostic as to nuclear Now. We're doing our own 264 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: work right now in terms of the twenty thirty five 265 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: targets and looking at what we think those challenges and 266 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: opportunities might be. So I'll have more to say about 267 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: that in due course once we've completed the work. But 268 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: as a starting proposition, we've always been and will always 269 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: continue to be technologically agnostic. 270 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: All right, look forward to having a chat when you 271 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: do that. Thank you for your time today, Thanks so 272 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: much for having best in Adelaide. My guest, Bran Black, 273 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: CEO Business Council of Australia here in Adelaide, addressing a 274 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: function today as well on some of the issues we've 275 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: chatted about this morning.