1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:05,740 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,350 --> 00:00:09,440 Sean Aylmer: On Mondays, we often look at markets and investing, and 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,480 Sean Aylmer: today I want to take a broader look at some 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,720 Sean Aylmer: wealth creation strategies. Almost all of us are in the 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,020 Sean Aylmer: stock market one way or another, many through our superannuation funds. 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,930 Sean Aylmer: Even if someone else is managing our money, it's important 7 00:00:20,930 --> 00:00:23,930 Sean Aylmer: to understand how things work and how wealth is created. 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,320 Sean Aylmer: To help out, I welcome to the virtual studio Peter Switzer, 9 00:00:27,470 --> 00:00:30,230 Sean Aylmer: founder and director of the Switzer Financial Group. He's a 10 00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:34,580 Sean Aylmer: TV and radio broadcaster, economist, author and podcast host and 11 00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:38,570 Sean Aylmer: many years ago, my first ever economics tutor. Peter, welcome 12 00:00:38,570 --> 00:00:39,300 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:40,909 Peter Switzer: Great pleasure to be with you, Sean. 14 00:00:41,210 --> 00:00:42,740 Sean Aylmer: So how do you make money in the stock market? 15 00:00:43,370 --> 00:00:46,190 Peter Switzer: I think it's pretty easy once you've been shown how 16 00:00:46,190 --> 00:00:48,830 Peter Switzer: to do it properly. I think too many people, treat 17 00:00:48,830 --> 00:00:52,220 Peter Switzer: it like going to the races on Randwick day like 18 00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:56,540 Peter Switzer: the Everest or the Kosciusko where the horses are. There's many 19 00:00:56,540 --> 00:00:59,210 Peter Switzer: of them. There's many chances to lose. And I think 20 00:00:59,210 --> 00:01:02,780 Peter Switzer: people try to punt the stock market as opposed to 21 00:01:03,050 --> 00:01:06,230 Peter Switzer: invest in the stock market. And I think there are 22 00:01:06,230 --> 00:01:09,530 Peter Switzer: easy ways to start. But I think the most important 23 00:01:09,890 --> 00:01:16,160 Peter Switzer: rule to start off with is always invest in quality companies. 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,190 Peter Switzer: Once you've made a bit of money and you're feeling comfortable, 25 00:01:19,190 --> 00:01:22,670 Peter Switzer: you can do some speculative trades like some people did 26 00:01:22,670 --> 00:01:27,170 Peter Switzer: with unknown companies like Afterpay three or four years ago, 27 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,630 Peter Switzer: by the way, that was started by another student of mine, 28 00:01:29,650 --> 00:01:31,310 Peter Switzer: Anthony Eisen. 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,550 Sean Aylmer: Oh, really? Scott Morrison was a student of yours, too, wasn't he? 30 00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:37,280 Peter Switzer: Yeah, he was as well. So was David Tudehope from 31 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:42,880 Peter Switzer: Macquarie Telecom and Vaughan Bowen who started M2. And yeah, I, 32 00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:45,980 Peter Switzer: remember this, I was lucky to teach at the University of 33 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:49,430 Peter Switzer: New South Wales and very good students like you went 34 00:01:49,430 --> 00:01:51,080 Peter Switzer: through that Commerce faculty. So... 35 00:01:51,110 --> 00:01:51,889 Sean Aylmer: We digress. 36 00:01:52,070 --> 00:01:55,940 Peter Switzer: We digress. Yeah, anyway but I think it's not actually an 37 00:01:55,940 --> 00:01:59,570 Peter Switzer: enormous digression because I was saying that I was lucky 38 00:01:59,570 --> 00:02:02,870 Peter Switzer: to hang out with people like you, very good quality students. 39 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,690 Peter Switzer: You had to get a reasonably high mark to get into 40 00:02:05,730 --> 00:02:08,750 Peter Switzer: Commerce at New South (University of New South Wales). And as a young tutor, I 41 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:11,990 Peter Switzer: realised that the people I was talking to were really good 42 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:15,589 Peter Switzer: quality performers and I had to be really well trained. 43 00:02:15,590 --> 00:02:18,530 Peter Switzer: So in trying to make things that were difficult easy to 44 00:02:18,530 --> 00:02:22,280 Peter Switzer: understand for people like you, it really pushed me to 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,570 Peter Switzer: my limits. And I had to become, I hate to 46 00:02:25,610 --> 00:02:28,940 Peter Switzer: say this immodestly, a quality performer or I wouldn't have lasted. 47 00:02:29,230 --> 00:02:31,369 Peter Switzer: And I think when it comes to investing, the same 48 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:36,380 Peter Switzer: thing applies. There's silly ways of investing that's like going 49 00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:38,720 Peter Switzer: to the races and backing a long shot and keep 50 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,160 Peter Switzer: your fingers crossed or actually learning from the best out there. 51 00:02:43,550 --> 00:02:46,940 Peter Switzer: People like Warren Buffett, some of the great fund managers 52 00:02:46,940 --> 00:02:50,900 Peter Switzer: out there, like Hamish Douglass, all these people are there. 53 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:53,929 Peter Switzer: And the lessons are there to be learnt by people 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,100 Peter Switzer: who understand that getting rich or getting wealthier from the 55 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:02,900 Peter Switzer: stock market is a process of investing in quality companies. 56 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,310 Peter Switzer: And I always throw this in Sean, invest in quality 57 00:03:07,310 --> 00:03:12,170 Peter Switzer: companies when the market is really selling them off irrationally. 58 00:03:12,169 --> 00:03:15,980 Peter Switzer: And the best example that was after about March 23 of 59 00:03:15,980 --> 00:03:21,260 Peter Switzer: last year when the coronavirus crash took unbelievable price levels 60 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:25,340 Peter Switzer: off fantastic companies. And that was the best time to buy. 61 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:28,820 Peter Switzer: And that's when the inexperienced were not buyers. They were 62 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:32,060 Peter Switzer: panicking and they were missing out on fantastic opportunities. 63 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:35,120 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So there are a few things in that I wouldn't mind unpacking. 64 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,240 Sean Aylmer: Are we talking about long term investing or short term investing? 65 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,070 Sean Aylmer: Can you make money from short term investing? 66 00:03:40,370 --> 00:03:44,570 Peter Switzer: If it's short term investing, I call it trading. I call it speculation. 67 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:44,840 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 68 00:03:45,020 --> 00:03:46,880 Peter Switzer: We don't know what's going to happen to a company 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,370 Peter Switzer: in the short term, but I'll tell you what, you 70 00:03:49,370 --> 00:03:51,050 Peter Switzer: can pretty well guess what's going to happen to a 71 00:03:51,050 --> 00:03:55,010 Peter Switzer: quality company in the long term. And because I always 72 00:03:55,010 --> 00:03:58,700 Peter Switzer: say don't ever put your bet on any one quality 73 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:02,540 Peter Switzer: company because a quality company, things can go wrong. Government 74 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:07,160 Peter Switzer: policy can change. A stupid CEO could be made CEO 75 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,880 Peter Switzer: who makes bad decisions. And I'll give you a classic example. 76 00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:15,020 Peter Switzer: AMP was once a quality company, but a series of 77 00:04:15,020 --> 00:04:18,940 Peter Switzer: things that went wrong over time changed that quality company. Now, 78 00:04:19,070 --> 00:04:22,790 Peter Switzer: if someone had, say, for example, ten or fifteen years ago, 79 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,280 Peter Switzer: listen to people like me or others who said, look, 80 00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:30,290 Peter Switzer: have ten or twenty companies, have five per cent exposure 81 00:04:30,290 --> 00:04:32,570 Peter Switzer: to each one of those companies, you only would have 82 00:04:32,570 --> 00:04:35,630 Peter Switzer: lost on that five per cent exposure you might have 83 00:04:35,630 --> 00:04:39,440 Peter Switzer: had to AMP. The other nineteen probably were CBA, and 84 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,099 Peter Switzer: CSLs and BlueScopes and whatever. And they've done well. 85 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,800 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Another part of what you said a moment ago, 86 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,170 Sean Aylmer: you talked about March 23, which was the very bottom 87 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,530 Sean Aylmer: of the market last year. Hindsight is 20/20. How do 88 00:04:51,529 --> 00:04:54,409 Sean Aylmer: you know when a market is at its bottom or 89 00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:55,250 Sean Aylmer: is undervaluing? 90 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,530 Peter Switzer: You don't. You don't. But my attitude was this, Sean. The GFC, which you 91 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,140 Peter Switzer: know very well because you would have been writing about it when it happened, the 92 00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:06,539 Peter Switzer: low point of the market lasted a long time. It went 93 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,589 Peter Switzer: from November 2007 to March 2009 and there were a 94 00:05:10,620 --> 00:05:14,460 Peter Switzer: series of drops along the way. And that was understandable 95 00:05:14,490 --> 00:05:20,270 Peter Switzer: because things went wrong over and over again. Bear Stearns collapsed, 96 00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:25,950 Peter Switzer: then Lehman Brothers collapsed and government policy was hopeless and slow. 97 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:30,880 Peter Switzer: And central banks like even our Reserve Bank in 2008, 98 00:05:30,930 --> 00:05:34,109 Peter Switzer: in February, in The Australian, I wrote a story saying, why 99 00:05:34,110 --> 00:05:36,180 Peter Switzer: are we raising interest rates when we should be cutting 100 00:05:36,180 --> 00:05:38,690 Peter Switzer: interest rates? And a woman by the name of Philippa Malmgren 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,750 Peter Switzer: came from the group in London, a former advisor to 102 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:45,620 Peter Switzer: George Bush Junior. And I won't hold that against her. But 103 00:05:45,870 --> 00:05:48,089 Peter Switzer: she came in and addressed a group of economists like 104 00:05:48,089 --> 00:05:51,030 Peter Switzer: us media people for Deutsche Bank. And she actually said, 105 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:53,070 Peter Switzer: your central bank's going to have to turn on the dime. 106 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,029 Peter Switzer: That was February of 2008. Ironically, I think it was September 107 00:05:57,130 --> 00:05:59,669 Peter Switzer: that the Reserve Bank actually started cutting interest rates and was 108 00:05:59,670 --> 00:06:02,910 Peter Switzer: the first central bank in the world to do it. So 109 00:06:03,210 --> 00:06:05,520 Peter Switzer: the GFC was a really hard one to work out. 110 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,790 Peter Switzer: But there were things progressively going wrong. With the coronavirus 111 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:11,789 Peter Switzer: and the crash, that was government created. The virus is 112 00:06:11,790 --> 00:06:15,780 Peter Switzer: a big problem. We had to close down the economies. Close down businesses. Why wouldn't 113 00:06:15,779 --> 00:06:18,150 Peter Switzer: the stock market crash? But as soon as we realised 114 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:21,240 Peter Switzer: that governments are going to adopt basically a full on 115 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,080 Peter Switzer: Keynesian solution, throw a heap of money at it, bring interest rates down, 116 00:06:25,380 --> 00:06:27,870 Peter Switzer: it was logical that the stock market was going to boom. Now, 117 00:06:28,140 --> 00:06:32,039 Peter Switzer: I didn't buy on March 22. But by about April 118 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,270 Peter Switzer: seven or eight, I could see the trends were going up. 119 00:06:36,510 --> 00:06:38,820 Peter Switzer: And that's when I started making my bigger bets on 120 00:06:39,089 --> 00:06:42,300 Peter Switzer: companies like Webjet, which I wouldn't normally buy but at $1.20, 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,950 Peter Switzer: to me, it was a very good buy. What, CBA 122 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:50,130 Peter Switzer: got as low as fifty something, fifty seven dollars, something 123 00:06:50,130 --> 00:06:55,590 Peter Switzer: like that. These were all good opportunities to buy. I don't put Webjet in the quality group yet. One 124 00:06:55,620 --> 00:06:58,710 Peter Switzer: day I think it might be. But companies like CBA 125 00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:02,099 Peter Switzer: were there for the buying. Wesfarmers, Woolworths. It was just 126 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:02,810 Peter Switzer: money for jam. 127 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,850 Sean Aylmer: OK, stay with me, Peter. We'll be back in a minute. 128 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,150 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is business and finance commentator Peter Switzer. 129 00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:18,860 Sean Aylmer: Can a retail investor like yourself beat professional investors? Should 130 00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:20,180 Sean Aylmer: I be using a managed fund? 131 00:07:20,570 --> 00:07:25,489 Peter Switzer: Yeah, definitely. In fact, history has shown that passive investing 132 00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:29,150 Peter Switzer: index funds will probably mean that you will beat two 133 00:07:29,150 --> 00:07:32,390 Peter Switzer: thirds of fund managers. Doesn't mean you beat all two 134 00:07:32,390 --> 00:07:35,840 Peter Switzer: thirds of fund managers because some fund managers will be in the winning third, 135 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,120 Peter Switzer: better than index funds, while others will not be. Then two years later, it could all 136 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,820 Peter Switzer: flip around. So I think the retail investor, as long 137 00:07:43,820 --> 00:07:47,120 Peter Switzer: as they don't try and get too greedy, can at least get 138 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,660 Peter Switzer: some very good returns by being in an index fund. And 139 00:07:50,660 --> 00:07:54,800 Peter Switzer: I must admit in my early days, because I'm not 140 00:07:55,010 --> 00:07:58,790 Peter Switzer: a serious risk taker when it comes to investing, I 141 00:07:58,790 --> 00:08:02,930 Peter Switzer: used index funds, particularly when the ASX 200 was sold 142 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:08,210 Peter Switzer: off during the GFC, bought an ETF for the ASX 200. Why? Well, 143 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,880 Peter Switzer: I'm getting the best 200 companies in Australia and I 144 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,190 Peter Switzer: knew it would do well over time. But when it 145 00:08:13,190 --> 00:08:16,310 Peter Switzer: comes to international, I'm not real good at that. So 146 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:18,830 Peter Switzer: I look around for great fund managers and so for 147 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:22,190 Peter Switzer: our financial planning business, Sean, for our clients we use 148 00:08:22,310 --> 00:08:26,540 Peter Switzer: Magellan because Hamish Douglas has had a great track record. Hasn't had a great year but 149 00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:29,540 Peter Switzer: historically has a great track record. And we use an American fund 150 00:08:29,540 --> 00:08:33,920 Peter Switzer: called WCM, which has a couple of listed products in Australia 151 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,150 Peter Switzer: and have outperformed just about every international fund for about 152 00:08:38,150 --> 00:08:40,650 Peter Switzer: 10 or 15 years. That's why I balance it up, 153 00:08:40,730 --> 00:08:43,940 Peter Switzer: I get the extra grunt from great fund managers but I get the 154 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:46,100 Peter Switzer: core of my returns from index funds. 155 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:49,160 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, okay. I mean, you've watched the market for a long 156 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,520 Sean Aylmer: time and you've met many of the participants. You mentioned 157 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,429 Sean Aylmer: a moment ago, management and then you referred to AMP though not in the 158 00:08:55,429 --> 00:08:57,469 Sean Aylmer: same sentence, but I think we were going there. How 159 00:08:57,470 --> 00:08:59,820 Sean Aylmer: important is management in an organisation? 160 00:09:00,260 --> 00:09:02,270 Peter Switzer: Yeah, it's one of the things that I first learnt 161 00:09:02,270 --> 00:09:05,750 Peter Switzer: from Warren Buffett that you have to really believe in 162 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:10,310 Peter Switzer: the calibre of the management. And AMP has really had 163 00:09:10,309 --> 00:09:14,000 Peter Switzer: a succession of really bad management ever since it's listed. 164 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Peter Switzer: And it may well have been bad even before then. But 165 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:18,740 Peter Switzer: when a company gets on the stock market, as you 166 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:21,950 Peter Switzer: well know, there are so many eyes on that company, 167 00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:26,180 Peter Switzer: and that's when I'll use a Buffet line again, that 168 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,670 Peter Switzer: when the water goes out, that's when you see who's 169 00:09:28,670 --> 00:09:32,660 Peter Switzer: swimming naked. Well, AMP, it actually was showing it was swimming naked 170 00:09:32,660 --> 00:09:36,650 Peter Switzer: even before the water went out with recession and crashes. And then 171 00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:38,809 Peter Switzer: the interesting thing is that even by putting someone like 172 00:09:38,809 --> 00:09:42,020 Peter Switzer: David Murray, who is a, clearly a very smart performer, 173 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:45,650 Peter Switzer: he couldn't rescue the company. It was in such dire straits. 174 00:09:45,650 --> 00:09:48,860 Peter Switzer: Problems have gone wrong for a long time. And unfortunately, 175 00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:51,830 Peter Switzer: people chased AMP because it was a dividend payer and that 176 00:09:51,830 --> 00:09:54,380 Peter Switzer: was the income trap, that some companies will pay dividends, 177 00:09:54,380 --> 00:09:57,110 Peter Switzer: but it's only because they're just really whittling down their profit, 178 00:09:57,110 --> 00:10:01,970 Peter Switzer: not going anywhere. And I think management ultimately shows you 179 00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:04,100 Peter Switzer: how good they are when you look at the growth 180 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:07,350 Peter Switzer: of their earnings, the growth of their, not necessarily the 181 00:10:07,429 --> 00:10:10,370 Peter Switzer: dividend. Dividend can be another indicator. But I think growth of 182 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:15,170 Peter Switzer: earnings is a critically important indicator to look at. And, 183 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,699 Peter Switzer: of course, you got to compare it to the debt 184 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,189 Peter Switzer: levels and things like that. But earnings per share is 185 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:21,619 Peter Switzer: a very, very important indicator of whether the company is 186 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:22,490 Peter Switzer: in the right direction or not. 187 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:24,800 Sean Aylmer: The other thing I just want to ask about is 188 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,179 Sean Aylmer: animal spirits. Entrepreneurialism, which as an economics student under you, we 189 00:10:29,179 --> 00:10:32,240 Sean Aylmer: learnt a lot about entrepreneurialism and animal spirits and how 190 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,599 Sean Aylmer: important it was to make the economy go round. Is 191 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,580 Sean Aylmer: that still the case in quality companies? 192 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:40,820 Peter Switzer: I think so. And what we've seen I think the 193 00:10:40,820 --> 00:10:43,940 Peter Switzer: best examples of that, Sean, and we've got them here, 194 00:10:43,940 --> 00:10:47,120 Peter Switzer: like I think Afterpay is a case, I think the guys at Zip Co, 195 00:10:47,150 --> 00:10:51,800 Peter Switzer: are very entrepreneurial and they've been able to translate that to the stock market. But, 196 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,530 Peter Switzer: you know, the classic ones are the FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, and Google) stocks, plus 197 00:10:54,530 --> 00:11:00,500 Peter Switzer: Microsoft in the USA. All out of entrepreneurs. All have been able 198 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:02,960 Peter Switzer: to go from being a private company to be a 199 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,860 Peter Switzer: public company. They've kept growing their business. And I tell 200 00:11:06,860 --> 00:11:10,400 Peter Switzer: you what, when you think about those companies, I learned 201 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,460 Peter Switzer: something that I really didn't fully understand only a couple 202 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:16,130 Peter Switzer: of years ago, and I may well have been doing 203 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:21,110 Peter Switzer: it by some innate understanding. And I often would bring 204 00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:22,910 Peter Switzer: up Warren Buffett because as I say, I learned a lot. I 205 00:11:23,059 --> 00:11:26,150 Peter Switzer: didn't learn anything about the stock market at university, but certainly 206 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:28,550 Peter Switzer: from great investors I did. And he always said, look, 207 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:32,179 Peter Switzer: for companies that have a moat around it. A moat is a protection, 208 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:35,420 Peter Switzer: protecting their profits, protecting the potential of the business. But 209 00:11:35,420 --> 00:11:40,439 Peter Switzer: then I encountered these guys from Laguna Beach, California, WCF, 210 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:44,480 Peter Switzer: and these guys, as I pointed out earlier, are really great fund managers. What 211 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,260 Peter Switzer: they do, they look for best of breed companies around 212 00:11:48,260 --> 00:11:51,559 Peter Switzer: the world. At one stage CSL was in their stable of stocks. 213 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,830 Peter Switzer: But what they actually look for is companies that have 214 00:11:54,830 --> 00:11:58,970 Peter Switzer: a growing moat. So the moat is not a competitive advantage. 215 00:11:59,450 --> 00:12:02,570 Peter Switzer: Get a company with a moat growing, they're growing their 216 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:05,540 Peter Switzer: competitive advantage. You know, companies aren't able to catch up 217 00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:08,540 Peter Switzer: with them. They do extraordinarily well. And one of their 218 00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:11,530 Peter Switzer: best selections, about five or six years ago was a company I had never heard of 219 00:12:11,530 --> 00:12:15,579 Peter Switzer: before called Shopify. And Shopify basically copied the Amazon model 220 00:12:15,580 --> 00:12:19,140 Peter Switzer: for consumers, but for small businesses right around the world. 221 00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:22,360 Peter Switzer: That's the kind of thing that I'm looking for, management 222 00:12:22,570 --> 00:12:27,610 Peter Switzer: that have A. a moat, but B. a growing moat, getting more 223 00:12:27,610 --> 00:12:31,090 Peter Switzer: and more competitive all the time. And if you're always 224 00:12:31,090 --> 00:12:34,360 Peter Switzer: looking for those sort of companies, I think generally you 225 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,130 Peter Switzer: will do very well. 226 00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:37,880 Sean Aylmer: Peter, before you go, I have to ask you about cryptos. 227 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:39,580 Sean Aylmer: What do you think of cryptocurrencies? 228 00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:49,290 Peter Switzer: Don't understand it. Really wished I'd fallen into cryptocurrency when I interviewed him on my old Sky Business program. 229 00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:52,990 Peter Switzer: There was a, one of the early presidents of the Bitcoin Society 230 00:12:52,990 --> 00:12:55,630 Peter Switzer: of Australia, whatever it was in those days, came on 231 00:12:55,630 --> 00:13:00,670 Peter Switzer: the program and talked about a publican in Woolloomooloo who 232 00:13:00,670 --> 00:13:05,080 Peter Switzer: was actually accepting Bitcoin from backpackers for overnight stays and 233 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,770 Peter Switzer: I think at that point in time Bitcoin was worth two hundred and fifty dollars. 234 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:09,630 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 235 00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:13,510 Peter Switzer: Yeah. And I, even then $250 seemed like a lot of money. 236 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,449 Peter Switzer: I compare that to the usual share price out there. You 237 00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:20,410 Peter Switzer: know what? I got a sneaking suspicion Bitcoin will survive 238 00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:22,689 Peter Switzer: all this, but there's no way in the world I 239 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:25,510 Peter Switzer: will invest in it, nor will I recommend anyone to 240 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:30,100 Peter Switzer: do it because I simply don't understand the competitive environment 241 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:31,090 Peter Switzer: in which it operates. 242 00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:33,490 Sean Aylmer: I'm with you on that, Peter. Thank you for talking 243 00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:34,240 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 244 00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:35,050 Peter Switzer: Great pleasure. 245 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,449 Sean Aylmer: That was Peter Switzer, director of the Switzer Financial Group. 246 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:42,880 Sean Aylmer: You can read and watch more from Peter at Switzer.com.au. Now, 247 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,990 Sean Aylmer: remember also there's no substitute for professional advice. And whilst 248 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,850 Sean Aylmer: you might have enjoyed our conversation then, I'd highly recommend 249 00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:52,240 Sean Aylmer: speaking to a financial planner before making any investment decision. 250 00:13:52,630 --> 00:13:54,670 Sean Aylmer: This is a Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me 251 00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:57,280 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with 252 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,590 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 253 00:14:00,170 --> 00:14:01,030 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.