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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part two of them My chat with

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Speaker 1: Scott Murren. In part one, Scott told us about the

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Speaker 1: way his life was turned upside down following his separation

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Speaker 1: from his partner Helen Delaney. Helen, who had been caught

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Speaker 1: up in the idological beliefs of a sovereign citizen movement

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Speaker 1: and was co founder of Namdaka Dahlia Australias also known

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Speaker 1: as NDA, a radical anti government organization that is aligned

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Speaker 1: with the Sovereign Citizen movement. In Part two, we discuss

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Speaker 1: Helen's criminal charges and how they affected Scott and his family.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the fake warrant served on Scott demanding

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Speaker 1: him to surrender his two sons and also submit himself

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Speaker 1: for arrest, and how failure to comply would result in

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Speaker 1: life imprisonment and hard labor. Now, if that sounds like

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Speaker 1: a jake, it's actually what happened to Scott and what

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Speaker 1: he went through. Scott tells us what happened when the

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Speaker 1: matter finally hits the courts, and we also talk in

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Speaker 1: general about the Sovereign Citizen movement. I think what you'll

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Speaker 1: hear us talking about you'll find quite concerning. It is

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Speaker 1: a worry. Scott Murran, Welcome back to part two of Ketchkillers.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: I'm still trying to digest what you've been through with

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Speaker 1: the battles with your ex part. So we were talking

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Speaker 1: about all the attempts they had to I suppose unnerve

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Speaker 1: you in a way where there's ava orders out that

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Speaker 1: Helen stay within a five hundred meter exclusion zone, obvious

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Speaker 1: breaches of that, different things that have occurred, and then

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Speaker 1: it got to the point where the police have said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: enough's enough. You've talked about twenty seven I think you

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Speaker 1: said they're about incidents of where contact has been made

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Speaker 1: to the police of concerns for welfare for your kids,

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Speaker 1: which resulted in police turning up and checking on the welfare.

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Speaker 1: It's chaotic and this is all you've seen the changes

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Speaker 1: in Helen when she's been involved in the movement. Movement.

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Speaker 1: You even had what I would loosely term a warrant

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Speaker 1: served on you. I had a look at the document

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Speaker 1: or four pages of the document, and it was described

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Speaker 1: in an article by the ABC described this the lago

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Speaker 1: an official looking letter was unfamiliar, but even before opening it,

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Speaker 1: Scott knew who it came from. Beneath and modo that

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Speaker 1: read do no harm. The warrant demanded he surrender his

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Speaker 1: two sons to court sheriffs and submit himself for arrest.

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Speaker 1: A failure to comply, it read, would result in life

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Speaker 1: imprisonment with hard labor. The document was sent to Scott

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Speaker 1: in March by a group calling itself the nam Dhaka

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Speaker 1: Dali Australias DA, a radical anti government organization that is

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Speaker 1: aligned with Sovereign Citizen movement, So talk me through this

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Speaker 1: like this, yeah, and I'm sorry I jump in before

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Speaker 1: I It had was signed off by a supposed judge

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Speaker 1: law off. It was a stamp, like an official stamp

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Speaker 1: on the document. It was set up to look like

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Speaker 1: an official document. It's not worth the paper it was

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Speaker 1: written on. But to the uneducated or ill informed, you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: what's this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know that kicked me up another gear

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Speaker 2: because I was like, okay, here there now admitting that

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Speaker 2: they're going to try and take my children. There was

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Speaker 2: individual arrest warrants within that naming both my boys, and

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Speaker 2: it said you know that they can take one or

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Speaker 2: both of those boys and return them to the custody

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Speaker 2: of the mother. It was served on me by a

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Speaker 2: process server, I found out.

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Speaker 1: Later official process service, an official one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then whilst I was doing an arisp video with

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Speaker 2: police about how I received it and whatever, I was

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Speaker 2: actually called by the judge of the fake court, the

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Speaker 2: so called judge, the so called judge, and asked, you know,

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Speaker 2: do you understand what you have to do? And all

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Speaker 2: the rest of it. We'd looked up where I was

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Speaker 2: supposed to deliver the children and it was a rural

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Speaker 2: property in somewhere near Gimpi. I made inquiries myself into

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Speaker 2: who owned that property and he had form. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: number one, there was no chance I was going to

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Speaker 2: do that. But it then again kicked me up a

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Speaker 2: gear in saying, you know they're going to work in

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Speaker 2: company to try and come and get my boys.

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Speaker 1: Well, the document, there was a lot of work that's

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Speaker 1: gone into create a document like that, So that would

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Speaker 1: cause concern to start with, I would imagine whoever's sitting

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Speaker 1: there planning this, there was a lot of gobblygook that's

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Speaker 1: a legal term for it. Was just it was crap.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to dissect it. And if they're trying

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Speaker 1: to set it up to look like an official warrant,

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Speaker 1: that was clearly someone that wasn't o fay with a

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Speaker 1: proper legal person. But what was concerning is the amount

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Speaker 1: of effort they've gone to to do that and the

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Speaker 1: concern what I would imagine the concern were you sort

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Speaker 1: of what stage were you at in your battles, because

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Speaker 1: it was a battle that you're going to go to

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Speaker 1: war this group.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to put it bluntly, I was ready

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Speaker 2: to go to war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you've taken that to the police, and why

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Speaker 1: you're there. You get a phone call from the supposed judge.

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Speaker 2: Yep. The police identified themselves, you know, made the person

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Speaker 2: aware that it was being recorded.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful yep.

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Speaker 2: And you know I thought old mate would just hang up,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't, you know, he just said, you know

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Speaker 2: what you have to do. He kept reiterating that. I

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Speaker 2: remember one of the officers getting pretty heated in demanding

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Speaker 2: he say who he is, and I think at the

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Speaker 2: end I called him a fucking flop. He hung up

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Speaker 2: the phone.

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Speaker 1: That would be concerning in that someone that irrational, the

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Speaker 1: way that they're carrying on, Like I described as irrational,

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Speaker 1: someone might describe it in another way. But there's an arrogance,

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Speaker 1: there's an entitlement, and I find that quite quite creepy.

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Speaker 1: There people that.

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Speaker 2: And I use another word. I think there's intent. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's there's an intent there to cause fear, as an

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Speaker 2: intent there to tell me they're coming to take my children.

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Speaker 2: And I would say I'm not. You know, I've become

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Speaker 2: paralegal through this whole thing. That's another hat of ad

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Speaker 2: to wear that with that intent and putting that sending

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Speaker 2: that stuff to me is conspiracy to kidnap children.

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Speaker 1: Minus how do you explain to your kids their mother

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Speaker 1: was watching them or yeah, you can call it stalking,

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Speaker 1: whether it's amounts of stalking, but how did you explain

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Speaker 1: to them that the mother's keeping an eye on them?

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Speaker 2: It's difficult.

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Speaker 1: I don't imagine.

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Speaker 2: My youngest son was under the impression that she'd moved

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Speaker 2: back into the area, something that I probably didn't mention before.

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Speaker 2: He always used to say, he stops saying it now,

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Speaker 2: but he used to say, she'll never give up. You know,

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Speaker 2: he'd heard things when he was staying in those camps

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Speaker 2: and things like, you know, we'll go through their doors

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. That's stuck in his head. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's difficult to explain to him, you know, I just

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Speaker 2: I just have to say these things are going on

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Speaker 2: and hopefully that they'll change in the future for you.

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Speaker 1: It's a hard conversation. Was the younger son that was

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Speaker 1: also sprouting ideology.

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Speaker 2: At school, Yeah, mainly ideologies about scomo h Scott Morrison

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Speaker 2: and you know, my body, my rules, you know, stay

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Speaker 2: away from the jab, all that sort of stuff. But

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Speaker 2: apparently was standing up and sort of announcing it to

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Speaker 2: his school, Yeah, classroom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, well that's clearly the impact that hanging

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Speaker 1: around with that group has had on him to come

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Speaker 1: out like that. I need to make it very clear

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Speaker 1: we're not suggesting all sovereign citizens are capable of committing

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Speaker 1: such horrendous crimes or Helen then the nam Daka Dahlia Australias,

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Speaker 1: which is the Sovereign Citizen group.

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Speaker 2: It was a group that she formed, yes, yeah, that.

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Speaker 1: She formed for that matter of linked or would carry

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Speaker 1: out crimes of that nature. But look at the two shoes,

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Speaker 1: the two shootings in Queensland and Victoria of police carrying

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Speaker 1: out their duties and people identify or aligned with sovereign citizens,

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Speaker 1: and it's quite scary, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that people feel like they can take

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Speaker 2: their ideology to that level, you know, frightening young children,

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Speaker 2: frightening people that were caring for my young children. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's another part of it. They're worried about the other

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Speaker 2: children at that school, which come into play when we

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Speaker 2: had school excursions.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking when you were talking about the

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Speaker 1: protections that were put in place for your children's friends

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Speaker 1: and also at school and if I was a parent

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Speaker 1: of the friends or parents of the other kids at school,

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Speaker 1: i'd be worried.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, might I actually put in my own disclaimer because

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Speaker 2: I would expect other parents to do that to me.

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Speaker 2: But if my son was going to have a sleepover,

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Speaker 2: which he didn't for a long time, the first thing

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Speaker 2: I would do, and that's both of my sons, was say,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is what's going on in our lives,

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Speaker 2: and I will totally understand if you don't want my

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Speaker 2: children at your heart.

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Speaker 1: So you were up front the yeah, because.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be dragging other people into my mess.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I think that's fair enough. Did

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Speaker 1: you have community support why this was going on in

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Speaker 1: the in the area that you were living, Because that's

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Speaker 1: the other thing. Your privacy has just been blowing. Why

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Speaker 1: that opens Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So when we get back to that DV thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the things I guess as a man, as

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Speaker 2: you feel vulnerable saying that we're you know, we're being

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Speaker 2: impacted by domestic violence. So I got to a stage

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Speaker 2: where I was like, you know, a lot of this

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Speaker 2: stuff's happening from keyboards. Yes, they were making approaches and

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Speaker 2: things like that, but I'm going to drag them out

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Speaker 2: into the public. This is not when we discussed it

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Speaker 2: as a family. This is not a dirty little secret

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Speaker 2: that I'm going to keep because that protects them. What

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Speaker 2: I've learned is, you know that didn't inflicts domestic violence

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Speaker 2: against you. They want to silence you, they want to

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Speaker 2: control you. Well, I took that away the moment I

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Speaker 2: started to discuss it with people. I encourage my children

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Speaker 2: to discuss it with their friends, with their friends' parents,

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Speaker 2: and speak openly about what was going on in their lives.

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Speaker 2: We did this with their school counselors. They both say,

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Speaker 2: regular school counselors and school principles. You know, I had

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Speaker 2: multiple meetings and the support I received in return was overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that Yes, it's okay for your children still to

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Speaker 2: be at the school.

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Speaker 1: It's good. People can understand what you were going through.

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Speaker 1: So how did the matter actually get to court? When

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Speaker 1: did it get to court? And I'm talking the criminal

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Speaker 1: court here.

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Speaker 2: Not so Helen had eight warrants.

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Speaker 1: Arrest warrants for each individual breach.

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Speaker 2: Of the avy, different things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think initially it was some extra charges

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Speaker 1: of intimidation. Yes, well yeah, okay, so they had eight warrants.

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Speaker 2: Out there, so at the time I became a bit

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Speaker 2: of a pain in the ass. I guess is a

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Speaker 2: polite way to put it to the cops. I started

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Speaker 2: to write letters and provide information for my own investigations

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Speaker 2: into senior police's pigeonholes. I worked out that was part

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Speaker 2: of the system. I'd hand it over at the police

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Speaker 2: station and say, this is not a complaint, this is

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Speaker 2: just some information I wanted to hand on to this person.

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Speaker 2: But I'd see it and put that person's name on there,

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Speaker 2: and I'm talking some fairly high ranking police. I went

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Speaker 2: and spoke to the local members a number of times

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Speaker 2: and just was like, what actually became a marker for

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Speaker 2: me was they do this thing called Operation Amarok. So

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Speaker 2: each time Operation Amarock happened, they'd say, oh, we've got

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Speaker 2: six hundred of the state's most serious offenders and lock

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Speaker 2: them up and that sort.

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Speaker 1: Of thing warrants out for them.

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Speaker 2: And every time that would happen, I do the little

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Speaker 2: mailbox drop and say, how come you didn't get helen

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Speaker 2: to Looney Scott.

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Speaker 1: I if you've and I know you're listener to the

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Speaker 1: podcast and people have heard me say I support doing

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Speaker 1: that type of thing, mate, And you're not being critical

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Speaker 1: of police, but you're just putting police on notice that

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Speaker 1: you expect the job to be done and they're there

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Speaker 1: is to serve the public and you're a member of

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Speaker 1: the public and this person is causing you a lot

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Speaker 1: of angst, and so make people accountable. So great strategy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was pretty diligent in that.

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Speaker 1: You can say obsessive diligence probably sounds better.

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Speaker 2: But I used the metaphor that I was sprinkling breadcrumbs

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Speaker 2: across your desk.

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Speaker 1: I was just diligent. Yeah, sometimes you've got to be.

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of people gary that were like

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Speaker 2: moved moved on, or that's what I was told, not

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Speaker 2: in this division anymore.

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Speaker 1: That that that's a problem and it's not anyone to blame.

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Speaker 1: But with police rotating through and someone's for me with

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Speaker 1: the case that's been dragged on for years, and then

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Speaker 1: all that knowledge is left and yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I even got to the point where I walked

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Speaker 2: in to one of the stations with a coffee. I

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Speaker 2: sat down on the chair and I said, I'm here

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Speaker 2: to see the boss. Do you have an appointment? No,

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Speaker 2: I don't. He's busy, I said, We'll tell him. I

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Speaker 2: like lots of coffee, So when this one runs out,

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Speaker 2: I'll get a coffee and I'm going to come back.

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Speaker 2: And you know, eventually got somebody come and said, mate,

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Speaker 2: what do you want? Yeah, and I said, the breadcrumbs

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Speaker 2: have just been sprinkled over your desk at your rank.

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Speaker 2: So I want her court. I want this stopped. I've

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Speaker 2: put up with enough makes sense? Yeah, yeah, so that's

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Speaker 2: what I hadened.

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned the figures eight warrants. But if someone's

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Speaker 1: they've got their warrants and their apprehension warrants, you can

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Speaker 1: apprehend the person they should be served. You can't just

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Speaker 1: let them keep building it up. That gives them a

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Speaker 1: false confidence in it.

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Speaker 2: And remembering that I probably haven't mentioned this, but every

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Speaker 2: person in this case that has gone back against talent,

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Speaker 2: so whether it had been an arresting officer, judge, my lawyers,

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Speaker 2: everybody has received the sovereign citizen treatment the moment their

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Speaker 2: names are identified in our case, so bombarded with paperwork, emails,

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Speaker 2: phone calls. Let's catch Skillstone, it's coming, gar yeah, trust me,

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Speaker 2: it's coming, all right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you've got to the point where you're pushing

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Speaker 1: the police. There's a number of warrants for her apprehension,

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Speaker 1: and then she's being caught that video we showed where

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Speaker 1: the roadside stopped. That wasn't this time, but that was.

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Speaker 2: That was the time, that was early in the piece.

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Speaker 2: That was And then I believe she had the High

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Speaker 2: Risk Domestic Violence of Vendor team both the Northern and

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Speaker 2: Southern Region looking for her, and I believe, yeah, they

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Speaker 2: end up getting out of a roadside traffic stop. Again,

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Speaker 2: that same gentleman was in the car. And another disclaimer,

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Speaker 2: those videos are filmed by the person and that's how

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Speaker 2: they make their way on the internet. Not doing it.

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Speaker 2: He's made any favors at all, Yeah, publicly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So's it's crazy world, isn't it. It really is the

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Speaker 1: crazy world. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I'm told when she was arrested she was and

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Speaker 2: you know, I heard secondhand, but she had like six

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Speaker 2: IDs on.

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Speaker 1: A court matter. I've went through the transcripts. I had

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Speaker 1: access to the transcripts. I think about one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty pages of it, and I was getting a headache

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Speaker 1: reading through it. I just can't imagine what it would

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Speaker 1: have been like. You've been involved in the court matter

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Speaker 1: and the scene it go on, and the I'll say,

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Speaker 1: a logical way that she would respond to some questions

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Speaker 1: and the pain and the obstructive manner in which she

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Speaker 1: went through court to give you, to give you an

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Speaker 1: example when she has been sworn in to give evidence.

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Speaker 1: So she's asked if us to identify herself, and this

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Speaker 1: is from the transcripts, and so it's public record. Good.

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Speaker 1: This is Helen's answer.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So I'm Helen. That's my name my mother and father

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Speaker 1: gave me. And that's the only name I consent to.

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Speaker 1: I don't consent to any further additional names on top

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Speaker 1: of that, because I understand them to be crowned copyright assets. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: that was just being sworn in. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: your name? That was the answer when the magistrate asked

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Speaker 1: her if she knows why she's here. This is what

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Speaker 1: she said. I can't actually say yes to that, your honor, respectfully.

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Speaker 1: First of all, as this court accepted yesterday the United

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Speaker 1: Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, I have

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Speaker 1: made extensive efforts over five years. I've been self determined

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Speaker 1: and self governed. Scott and I managed to separate the

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Speaker 1: familiar properties. I left home of violence, evidence by police reports,

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Speaker 1: and I'm self determined and self governing. So no, I

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Speaker 1: do not understand why I'm here today when this document

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Speaker 1: United Nations Declaration of Rights of Indigenous People says that

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Speaker 1: I have a right to self determine and self government.

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Speaker 1: I consider that I'm here because I've been forcibly joined,

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Speaker 1: forced assimilated into this situation that we're in today. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting a headache even yeah, yeah, going through it. Alen

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Speaker 1: was asked by the prosecutor about the AVA before her

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Speaker 1: that was the subject of and this is what this

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Speaker 1: is what she responded to that. So this is the

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Speaker 1: apprehend violence order that was clearly in front of her,

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Speaker 1: and she was asked a question about it, and this

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Speaker 1: is her answer. No, I are abut all assumptions, presumptions

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Speaker 1: and allegations against me, and being subject to these orders

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Speaker 1: would mean unlawful conversion between Helen and the legal fiction

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Speaker 1: that is Helen Delaney, which I do not consent to.

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Speaker 1: And I do not agree to be the trustee. I

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Speaker 1: do not agree to be the co trustee. I do

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Speaker 1: not consent to anyone administering on the trust were you

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Speaker 1: were you in the court at the time when this

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Speaker 1: was going on.

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Speaker 2: So through DV they give it the option to sit

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Speaker 2: in a separate room, which is what happened for my wife.

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Speaker 2: I determined I was going to be in that courtroom

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Speaker 2: and look her in the eye and say what you've

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Speaker 2: done is not right, and I'm the line. You won't

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Speaker 2: be getting past this line. So and.

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Speaker 1: Just in reference to those answers to very simple, straightforward

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Speaker 1: questions which could have been answered yes or no, or

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Speaker 1: just provide the name, this is the narrative that she

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Speaker 1: continued on with yes during during the hearing, right through it,

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Speaker 1: and she represented herself. Yes, she had a court appointed

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Speaker 1: questioner to help her facilitate questions.

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Speaker 2: Even that poor bugger was shaking his head.

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Speaker 1: And here we are a court that's set up that

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Speaker 1: still got to offer her her rights and provide all

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Speaker 1: the assistance to it that's required. But clearly, I'd say,

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Speaker 1: and this is not a technical term, she's just taking

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Speaker 1: the piss out of the court.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's what they do. They don't recognize the authority

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Speaker 2: of the court, so they run it the way they

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Speaker 2: want to run it, and it all it does is

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Speaker 2: clog the courts which were already clogged. Hence why you know,

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Speaker 2: four years after this started we get to our final hearing.

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Speaker 1: So four years from the start start pretty much, that's

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Speaker 1: how long. It's how long it's.

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Speaker 2: That's how long it took to get justice. Well, that

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Speaker 2: was the hearing, and then of course she appealed. She

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Speaker 2: dragged the appeal out in terms of not showing up,

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Speaker 2: wanting to do it via video link on her own terms,

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Speaker 2: this sort of stuff, and the court sort of tolerate

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Speaker 2: it to a point. And then she was told she

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Speaker 2: had to be there to her appeal and because on

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Speaker 2: the day she didn't turn up and it was dismissed.

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Speaker 2: But that's what they do. They like to waste the

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Speaker 2: court's time.

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Speaker 1: And been wasting the court's time. It's wasting public funds.

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Speaker 1: It is just a drain on society.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I can't tell you how many visits

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Speaker 2: to court I've had, but it's in the tens of dozens.

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Speaker 1: Of appearances or just a mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Mansion, adjourned, moved forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've got the magistrate, you've got the prosecutor who,

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Speaker 1: in my reading the transcripts, I think they both behave

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Speaker 1: themselves very well in that they gave it, gave her

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Speaker 1: enough latitude, but then just called her on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was stuff, allegations that I was in the

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Speaker 2: court to intimidate and do stuff like that. Gary. I

400
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Speaker 2: wore the same suit that I'm wearing today, my wedding suit.

401
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Speaker 2: I'll have one. I sat in the same seat in

402
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Speaker 2: line of view of the magistrate, and I didn't say

403
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Speaker 2: a word. I sat through the lot of it to

404
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Speaker 2: let the magistrate know I'm here to say it's not.

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Speaker 1: On fully understand fully understand the need and why you'd

406
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Speaker 1: want to want to go in there. The end result

407
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Speaker 1: of the court matter is I understand that she was

408
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Speaker 1: convicted of breaching the AVO eleven counts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so originally charged with sixteen counts, with three counts

410
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Speaker 2: of store intimidate and I believe there was four bail,

411
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Speaker 2: failed to appear on bail or something like that, and

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Speaker 2: convicted of twelve of the sixteen and then convicted of

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Speaker 2: one of the intimidate and the breach of bails.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay. She was in custody at the time the

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Speaker 1: court matter, so that she's been held in custody after

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Speaker 1: the arrest. I think sentenced to nine months, was it.

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Speaker 2: No, it's a sentence to twelve months and then released

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Speaker 2: with time already served of four months for four to

419
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Speaker 2: five months, I think it was. And then we had

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Speaker 2: an instant appeal on that, so it wasn't going to

421
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Speaker 2: serve any more time, right.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well look won't we won't delve into the court,

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Speaker 1: the court side of it anymore. How did it make

424
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Speaker 1: you feel when the guilty verdict came down? It was

425
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Speaker 1: there any satisfaction or is it just mate go past that?

426
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Speaker 2: What happened was there was only myself and some media

427
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Speaker 2: in the court. The emotion of that last four years

428
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Speaker 2: and the relief that you know, I was in this

429
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Speaker 2: for nothing more than protect my children and get justice

430
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Speaker 2: for them for what had happened to them. And I

431
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Speaker 2: don't know what got the better of me, but I

432
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Speaker 2: stood up when he said dismissed. I stood up and

433
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Speaker 2: yelled out justice for my boys. There the last three

434
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Speaker 2: words on the transcript, And yeah, I walked out, and

435
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Speaker 2: you know, shed a few tears. Was there was definitely

436
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Speaker 2: some relief, but like we do, we just sort of

437
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Speaker 2: get through that week and see what comes next week.

438
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do you feel like it's in the past.

439
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm never going to stop watching these boys

440
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 2: until they're old enough and they move out of home

441
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: or whatever they do. Yeah, I've I've had some police officers,

442
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: more than one say to me, was my family, I'd

443
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: pick up and move to the other side of w A.

444
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 2: In fact, my response to that is I'm not committing

445
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: the offenses and that lets that person win. So I'm

446
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: not going anywhere. This is my family home, it's where

447
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 2: my children want to live. They've got their friends. We'll

448
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 2: go about life, but life will always be a little

449
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: different for us than the family next door.

450
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: Do you want to just tell me that without going

451
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: in the details or naming names. But you had to

452
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: get plus security, A plus one yeah, plus one security

453
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: plus one.

454
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. We just had a small family wedding and I

455
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: was made aware the day before the wedding. Had you

456
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: thought about security?

457
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: And I was like no, And that was even police

458
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: suggest Yeah. So, and look, I think that's a proper

459
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: role of police. That put the idea out me. Yeah.

460
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, when you think about getting married,

461
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: I was thinking, I hope it doesn't rain, you know,

462
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: I hope the bride's happy. I hope my best mate

463
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: doesn't get drunk and make a goose of himself. Not

464
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: do I need security there to prevent somebody ruining the

465
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: wedding just never cross my mind. So I had twenty

466
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: four hours to organize something, and yeah, I won't go

467
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: into too much detail, but.

468
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: I would describe it as you've got the friends slash

469
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: associate with the suitable skills to be security at the

470
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: wedding pretty much.

471
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and the guests sort of started to notice

472
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: that this is where the black humor comes in again,

473
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: I guess, but yeah, the guests noticed that, and we're

474
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: getting concerned, and I was like, oh, that's plus one.

475
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: You know that person that gets invited that's not on

476
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: the main role. It is what it is. It's our life,

477
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: and we're doing our best to get through it with

478
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: a smile on our dial. At the end, you're.

479
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: Gonna laugh, yeah, definitely, Otherwise you'd just be or angry

480
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: box of tissues. Yeah. Yeah, You've got to have that

481
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: middle ground and just see how stupid this whole situation

482
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: that's been for you. And certainly is there any restrictions

483
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: still in place like av.

484
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: There's an AVO in place until twenty twenty seven.

485
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: Right, So you've got that form of protection. But as

486
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: as you've seen or demonstrated that that was only just

487
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: a bit of paper, piece of paper if someone's not

488
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: going to.

489
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: Buy Yeah, And while I've had a lot of community

490
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: support and it continues to this day, that was the

491
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: realization I come to, you know that the line that

492
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: I keep referring to between that the boys and what

493
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: could happen is me. So regardless of any outside help

494
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: or what the police can I can't offer, or what

495
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: the AVO says, I'm that line that says you're not

496
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: going past here. And that's just the way it's going

497
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: to be.

498
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: I'm thinking through because I've sat with people that have

499
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: had stalking situations and that we talk about ankle bracelets

500
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: on people that can't abide by the court in that

501
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: and I still promote it. I push it and push it.

502
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: I think it is the way of the future that

503
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: if you are stalking me, let's say you've offended enough

504
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: to the port where the courts have got to take action,

505
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: You've got an ankle bracelet on, and if you come

506
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: within five hundred meters of me or a clometer of me,

507
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: I get notified that you're in the area. And that

508
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: would give me some peace of mind. Yes, it's a

509
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: little bit different with your situation because it's not Helen

510
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: acting on our own. She's got these other people that

511
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: are quite obsessive. And when you see something like what's

512
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: happened in Victoria and what happened up in Queensland and

513
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: other situations, what goes through your mind.

514
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to align myself. I don't know those families. Obviously,

515
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: my heart goes out to them. They will people just

516
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: doing their job. Yeah, you know, nobody deserves to be

517
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: have that happen to them at work. Yeah, we do.

518
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: I don't live in fear. I live in readiness. That's

519
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: something I want to make very clear that I've had

520
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: a lot of time to prepare myself mentally for what's

521
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: going on. And like I said to you, I'm prepared

522
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: to open up the gates the hell and drag them

523
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: inside Gary if I have to. That's that's just how

524
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: it has to be. So watch this space. I guess

525
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: we can't live a normal life, then we'll live life

526
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: on our terms as best we can.

527
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: You shouldn't. And look, I'm looking you in the eyes

528
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: and I can see you mean what you say one.

529
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a person that makes threats. You know,

530
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: I said to you, my children did not choose for

531
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: this to be in their life, for this to happen.

532
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: The rabbit hole gets tossed around a lot, but essentially

533
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: that's what's happened. Their mother's gone down the rabbit hole,

534
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: and she's dragged the whole lot of us down there

535
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: with her. And I'll do whatever I can to let

536
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: my children have a normal life.

537
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: Was there any in all the ongoing disputes, whether it

538
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: be in the civil or criminal, was there any suggestion

539
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: of mental health issues? Did that ever come in?

540
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: I've been asked that multiple times, But like I'm not

541
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: a psychologist. My answer to that when people ask me

542
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: that is a mental health break or something you know,

543
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: I would would think can be temporary to do something

544
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: like this. This has been long sustained, planned, you know, actioned.

545
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, I probably say in my opinion, I can't

546
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: speak on behalf of Helen Delaney, but I would say

547
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: that she knows exactly what she's doing. What I would

548
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: say if she ever listens to this is her children

549
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: wanted to stop. They don't want to live their lives

550
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: like this. They don't want their mother not to be

551
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: in their lives. They just wanted to stop the behavior.

552
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: You know, if you want to throw your life away,

553
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: you throw it away. But remember that that that there's

554
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: children in this and those children having their lives thrown

555
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: away by your actions.

556
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: That's an important message. And if there's any thing that

557
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: comes out of it, if she is listening, and it

558
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: surprised me if she doesn't, if she hears about it,

559
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: that that that is a very strong.

560
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: Message and it's the truth.

561
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: What what have you learned about the group?

562
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: The ND A lot scary? Ye, I've got a large file.

563
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, is anything the public that you can share?

564
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't you know, we're not picking the fight here,

565
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: but that I.

566
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: Think, no, no, No.

567
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: Part of it is that people have got to understand

568
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: what these groups are about. We as we talked about

569
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: at the start of the podcast, we sort of looked

570
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: at these groups of a bit of a bit of humor.

571
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: It was a bit funny someone seceding from the Commonwealth

572
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: and all that. But it's gone a lot further.

573
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and it continually morphs into something else.

574
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: So once they become exposed as what they are, they

575
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: change the group, they move, they change the name of

576
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: the group. There's a lot of the same players within

577
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: that group. They do this thing where they call themselves

578
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: like the chap they're looking for at the moment, DESI

579
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: Freedom not his surname. You know, they change their names.

580
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: They hide behind keyboards. A lot of them they talk

581
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: in secret chat rooms. You know, what I would say

582
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: to them is you don't know who's within those chat rooms,

583
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: who's documenting what you're saying, who's happy to drag you

584
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: out in the public and say this is what you're doing.

585
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: And I'm referring to Helen Delaney there. I don't want

586
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: to pick a fight with the rest of them. I

587
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: got enough on me blate, But what I would say

588
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: is whatever you want to call yourself or whatever you

589
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: want to hide behind, what you're doing is not okay.

590
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: And there's members of the community they are prepared to

591
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: get into your groups and exposure of who you.

592
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: Are again a good message. But I think it's a

593
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: reasonable assumption for him to make too that the police

594
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: are going to be spending a lot more time looking

595
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: at looking at these groups now, not because of what's

596
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, but the things that have played

597
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: out in Victoria and Queensland, that there will be some

598
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: further attention. A big question that you might have an answer,

599
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: but you know, something like what happened in Victoria? Do

600
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: you see this as predictable when you're watching the narrative

601
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: on the keyboards.

602
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: That's a big call to answer that, you know. I

603
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: don't know how to answer that, Garry. To be honest,

604
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: what I would say is, there's all sorts of people

605
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: within these groups. Yeah, and if you go online now

606
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: there's grubs out there celebrating what happened down there in Victoria,

607
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: which is just disgraceful. And I think that the possibility

608
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: for things further things to happen certainly well on the cards,

609
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: you can't rule that out.

610
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if we covered it. But the dressing

611
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: up in the sheriff's uniforms or the fake sheriff's uniforms

612
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: tell us about that.

613
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they become aware that they are on a

614
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: bit of a recruitment drive, and them darker Nda as

615
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: we refer to them, they hide a bus like the

616
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: government bus, as you say, they put a large stick

617
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: to the other side of that bus, and they were

618
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: going through small groups and towns basically putting their message

619
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: out there and recruiting members. I think at one stage

620
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: we had numbers of around one hundred and fifty. Some

621
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: of those people are just vulnerable people that may have

622
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: lost their children in custody battles, that may have had

623
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: their family home taken off them, may not have agreedble

624
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: what happened during COVID, that sort of thing, and they

625
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: get caught up in this and it's cult like, you know,

626
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: they preach to them. They have formed their own little

627
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: Sheriff's thing. I believe it's something that's come from the

628
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: States as well. They wear body cameras, they had beige

629
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: akubra hats on. I nearly attacked a bloke that knocked

630
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: on my front door that I saw approach on the

631
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: cameras who was a Jehovah's witness that just happened to

632
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: be wearing a BII shirt and a beije akubra. You know,

633
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: that's where that's how heightened I am. I think it's

634
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: silly them running around in the uniforms. But what I

635
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 2: would say is we need to stop talking about them

636
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: being silly. They're a group and they're acting in company

637
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: and they're organized and they hold their meetings, and some

638
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: of those members do stupid things that they can't take back.

639
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: And you touched on there that attracts vulnerable people, and

640
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that is very much a cult.

641
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: Cult sit and there's always a grift. So that grift

642
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: these people need to fund their lifestyle of not working

643
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: and being productive members of the community. So they're always

644
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: looking to sell you an idea or a story. So

645
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, don't drive with a driver's license by one

646
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: of ours. Yeah, put your fake name on there, but

647
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: you've got to buy it off them.

648
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: And with the social media and that, you can go

649
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole too, can't you. And ideologies, and

650
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: I think this is a concern that you get into

651
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: an algorithm that you're looking on social media your ideology,

652
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: how way out it might or might not be. You've

653
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: got all these people who are telling you the same thing,

654
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: so you can see how people get sucked into it.

655
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and vulnerable people get drawn into a group that's saying, listen,

656
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: we can help you get your kids back, we can

657
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: help you do this, and they feel a part of something,

658
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: you know, and then they're in bolden to do more

659
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: than they normally would.

660
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: And one invariably one person taking advantage of the vulnerable

661
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: people in.

662
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: There and steering and who's always agreement.

663
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: In a direction. Prepping for this podcast just got me

664
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: interested in the whole sovereign citizen movement and a little

665
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: bit of research there and just a couple of things

666
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: that we might open up to discussion. We're not talking

667
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: about the NDA now, We're not talking about Helen. This

668
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: is just a general discussion about sovereign citizen movement in Australia,

669
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: so a summary of it. We've talked enough about it now,

670
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: But in Australia is part of a broader global movement

671
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: that claims individuals can declare themselves independent from government authority

672
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: and law. Proponents of this movement believe that they are

673
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: sovereign individuals who are not subject to the laws of

674
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: the state, often rejecting legal systems, taxation, and government regulations.

675
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: That sort of sums up the narrative. They've sort of

676
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: sit separate. We're stepping away.

677
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 2: Something you missed there, Gary is they don't reject the

678
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: dole payment.

679
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: Well, I will get to that because I've got in

680
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: in my notes here of just the hypocrisy of their ideology,

681
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: but we'll talk talk about that, but in key beliefs

682
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: that's breaken down in the common law. The use of

683
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 1: common law. Common law is something that's happened in the past.

684
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: That's what we base our laws on, the common law,

685
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: not the statute law that we have here. Self identification

686
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: anti government sentiment that seems to be and the research

687
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: I looked at by no means an expert, but it

688
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: sort of came from the US during covert power and

689
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: the push, and I think that people are brought into

690
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: it what we went with. All the lockdowns are here

691
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: in the country. Say that sort of got a little

692
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: bit of momentum.

693
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: And there's a rich market if you're looking for supporters.

694
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: I was. I can't tell you how many pubs I've

695
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: sat in and bashing up the Polly's as part of

696
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: the conversation somewhere, so it's not hard to find.

697
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: Well, we'll just show that we don't disagree with everything

698
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: that the sovereign citizen. But you've got to keep it

699
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: in perspective. But those lockdowns were ridiculous when they put

700
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: the nine pm curfew on. Where was a medical evidence

701
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: or scientific fact that a nine pm curfew is going

702
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: to help reduce the spread of COVID.

703
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, try and try starting a new relationship during that

704
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: when you live three hours apart.

705
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Well, I yeah, it's not a hard narrative to buy into,

706
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: is it. Like it's easy to.

707
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: And a slippery slope. But you get dragged in and

708
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: you start to believe the stuff and before you know it,

709
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 2: your life's going.

710
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: You're caught up in it. Court and legal systems challenges.

711
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: They rely on the court system to some degree, like

712
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: they want all the benefits of the court system when

713
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: it suits them, but then they don't want to acknowledge

714
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: the court system when it doesn't or our legal system,

715
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: which I think is a strange thing. Conspiracy theories. When

716
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: you've got people that got an ideology and they're on

717
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: the extreme, it's easy to dangle a conspiracy the governm.

718
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: It's working against you. This is happening. All police are

719
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: this and you can see.

720
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: How Yeah, planning microchips in your brain through Cranbridge juice.

721
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: I've read it all.

722
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it might buy in the one

723
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: or two people and then you've got oh, well he

724
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: agrees with me, Scott's agreeing with what I've said, And

725
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: then it escalates from there. So wonder and again this

726
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: is not picking a fight with sovereign citizens, but I

727
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: just hear hypocrisy of the ideology, so rejection of government

728
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: authority versus dependence on services. So you were talking about

729
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: the welfare payments that we don't respect the government but

730
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: wears our welfare payment.

731
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: Even driving on public roads, you know, they're not driving

732
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: on them, they're traveling on them either way. You're using

733
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: the public road.

734
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: That because I picked up on that not driving, we're traveling.

735
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: Because my argument would be, well, you don't agree with

736
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: the paying the taxes and all that, you're using the

737
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: for abilities, but they're traveling, they're not.

738
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: That's right. That's how they get around that. And the

739
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: vehicle is horsepowered, so it goes back to horse drawn vehicle.

740
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I don't know what more can I say.

741
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: It's difficult looking at utilizing public infrastructure. I suppose that

742
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: we're talking roads, we're talking public transport, we're talking about

743
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: the medical system or the health healthcare system. Legal challenges

744
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: versus legal protections, selective acceptance of laws. That seems to

745
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: be very much something there. They like when it suits them,

746
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: grab hold of.

747
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: It and selective versions of the truth, you know, cherry

748
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: pick what they want out of the argument, but don't

749
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: don't use facts.

750
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose we could pick apart the ideology in

751
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But seeing how you've experienced it,

752
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: and we're not putting you up as the expert on

753
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: sovereign sovereign but in your personal experience, you've had to

754
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: have a look at it. Do you think do you

755
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: see these type of ideologies and groups rising or do

756
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: you think I.

757
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: Tell you, yeah, that I'm no expert, but I can

758
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: tell you the numbers of rising purely by being in

759
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: the groups and monitoring what you know, the stuff that's

760
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: related to us. Yeah, I've seen that grow exponentially, and

761
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully the government is watching and taking some

762
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: action because they need to put a lid on this

763
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 2: pot before it boils. That's what I say.

764
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: Looking back at what you've gone through, do you think

765
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: there's any way you could have put a circuit breaker

766
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: in this and not letther escalate it to the manner

767
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: in which it did.

768
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: Now, I think what you had, and I've thought about

769
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: that a lot, is two parents, you know, fighting over

770
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: the kids, and you add into it the complexities of

771
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: what's been involved in our case, and it just there's

772
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: no way on back and down. I can assure you,

773
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: like I've said many times, and I assume Helen Delaney

774
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: will be the same. So it's where does it stop.

775
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: I don't know where it stops, but I know I'm

776
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: prepared to be in it for the long haul, and

777
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: coming on and speaking to you about it is to

778
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: let them know that you're not going to silence me,

779
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: You're not going to intimidate me. What you're doing is wrong,

780
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: and I'm going to stand in front of that. You know.

781
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: And I don't say that in relation to the whole

782
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 2: sovereign citizen thing. I say in relation to my children.

783
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: Well, I think and I'm looking at Yeah, the way

784
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: you've handled it all the way through, it was conciliatory,

785
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: like fifty to fifty to start with, It wasn't. She

786
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: was all the blame. That type of separation, that was

787
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: you went your separate ways, different life goals, and then

788
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: it's just gone bad.

789
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: And you know, I'll go as far as to say this, Gary,

790
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 2: somebody said to me that all children deserve a mother. Unfortunately,

791
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: not all mothers deserve their children. That's what we're at.

792
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: You know. That's that's where this I don't know if

793
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: there's much more I can say on it. That's that's

794
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: they said that to me, this person, and it's it

795
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: rings true for me.

796
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: That's how do you how do you think your your

797
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: children have been impacted by what's gone on?

798
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: Hugely, hugely. Part of doing this also, and I've only

799
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: spoken to select me, is my children are going to

800
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: at the moment, they're looking at this through the lens

801
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: of children. Okay, at some stage they're going to be fathers,

802
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: they're going to be adults, and when that happens, they'll

803
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: look at this very differently. Not having their mother in

804
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 2: their life is not easy. I'll say that. But what

805
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: I want out there is, you know, you've seen the

806
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: window smash thing. I think they've had twelve million hits. Okay,

807
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 2: there's a lot of other stuff on the Internet that

808
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: they've already seen about their mother, and they have kids

809
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: talk say stuff to them about it. It is hard.

810
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: They've been very lucky. They've got really supportive mates and

811
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: the parents and that. But what I will say is

812
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: that I want to put a version there so that

813
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: they can see there's another side. To this, there's always

814
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: two versions in an argument. When their fathers and their

815
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 2: grown adults, which is not that far down the track

816
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 2: for them, they'll be able to look back and see

817
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: that their father made the decisions he made based on

818
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 2: what was going on at the time, that they can't

819
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: change I can't change what happened in their life, and

820
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: that I did everything in my bloody power to protect

821
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 2: them from what was going on in their life.

822
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there can be any argument there.

823
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: What about you personally?

824
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: The impact I might have aged in dog years you

825
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: lost your hair old phlossiphy hair. I think that started

826
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: when I was sixteen, Gary. But yeah, it's taken a

827
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: huge toll on myself, on Karen and Karen.

828
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: And give reference to Karen. Karen's your wife. She's come

829
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: here and in the conversations are very supportive of what

830
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: you've gone through. That must have been mate.

831
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: She without Karen or she has been rock solid. She's

832
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: had to step into something that most I think partners.

833
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: I think even if I was put in the same situation, Gary,

834
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: out Jesus, if.

835
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 1: I looked at you on paper, I'd be running the mile. Karen,

836
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: what's together there? What did you see any.

837
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: I think I think what I would have done was

838
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: say I'm ducking down a pub for a beer and

839
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: maybe not come. Yeah. So yeah, I'm very extremely lucky

840
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: that she's been there through all of this and continues

841
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: to this day to do that. She's been that voice

842
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: of reason for the boys as well. I don't think

843
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: she'll mind me saying that. You know, the boys are

844
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: sort of grieving. I use this term. They're grieving the

845
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: loss of somebody that hasn't died.

846
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so difficult for the kids. It must be, really.

847
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: And you imagine the responsibility Garrey, that comes with being

848
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 2: a part of you know, taking action, that's that's brought

849
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: that about it. It's huge. I don't underestimate that at all.

850
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: But I've done what I've done to protect my children.

851
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose that's that's got to be the priority,

852
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: hasn't it.

853
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: That's the number one priority above all else my own health,

854
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 2: you know, my finances, everything. The children are the number

855
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: one priority. If they had two parents that were doing that,

856
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 2: we wouldn't burn this mess something. You know, somebody said

857
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: to me the other day, who's been along this journey

858
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: with us? You guys need a holiday. If I ever

859
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: won lot, i'd send you guys on a holiday. I said,

860
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: that's nice, but it's going to have to burn Australia

861
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: because something we didn't mention along the way is that

862
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: I had to put a port block in on both

863
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: of the boys as there was other people overseas and

864
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 2: there was a concern that that may happen.

865
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: Sorry, and that was your concern that they might be

866
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: grabbed and then facilitated overseas.

867
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she currently held their passports at the time,

868
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: so that made that a very real prospect. We had

869
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: to cost a fair bit of money and time to

870
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: get that put in place. But unfortunately along where that

871
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: comes the fact I can't take them out of the

872
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: country either, So no VG holiday for us at the moment.

873
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: It's recommend Darwin. I always like going to dar.

874
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: I don't do heat, Gary, I don't do heat Sen

875
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: head off down the Tasmania and Karen will probably too.

876
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 2: I don't do planes, so they'd have to sedate me.

877
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: So I don't do holidays. Yeah. Yeah, the boys and

878
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: I have gotten into I had a hobby of keeping

879
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: Koi fish Japanese fish, right, Yeah, and that's that's been

880
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: one of the saviors for the boys. That's a nice

881
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: peaceful it's a very peaceful balance. And Yang is the

882
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 2: and Yang Yeah, yeah, believe you do? Is it chign Yeah, yeah, yeah,

883
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 2: you were staring into the pond gives me the same thing.

884
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: And we're currently sort of doing our best to go

885
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: from what they call pondfish up to showfish. A lot

886
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: of time, effort, money goes into it, but it, yeah,

887
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: it gives back. That's our relaxation.

888
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: That's I'm glad you're get in some balance because you've

889
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: been through a tough time.

890
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been different.

891
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think and your kids are going to

892
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: look at this. You've you've handled it like you would

893
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: expect a father to handle handle the situation. I think

894
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: that that'll come across as they get older, they get

895
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: they're in that awkward age now where they're like strangers.

896
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 2: Anyway, No, I'm very lucky, Gary. I don't know if

897
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 2: this has brought that bond closer, like I'm men the

898
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: tummy time. But both of my boys tell me they

899
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: love me every day. That my oldest son is not

900
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: afraid to say it in front of his like you know,

901
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: they're on the phone. They call you. He says, love

902
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: your dad. They say that in front of their mates.

903
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 2: They're not afraid to hug me at the school in

904
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 2: front of their mates, and that bond is strong and

905
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: I'm very lucky to have that. So with everything that's

906
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: going on, they can't take that away from me.

907
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's great. That sounds like you're teaching good, good

908
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: young man.

909
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: I hope they will turn out that way.

910
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, thank you for coming on, coming on,

911
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: I catch killers. As I said at the start, you

912
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: probably prefer just listening to.

913
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: It, whether they ever dreamed I was going to be

914
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 2: on here.

915
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: Here is a guest. But look, a lot of important

916
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: messages you put out. You've given me a greater understanding

917
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: of a potential era that was dismissed as a joke.

918
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: But now we've got to take it more seriously. And

919
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: also giving a male perspective of when domestic situations go bad,

920
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: because invariably it's we're hearing from the woman's perspective. And

921
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting hearing the man talk about it.

922
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: It does take an emotional toll. You're sitting there stoic,

923
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: and you got through it, but I can see the pain.

924
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 2: See it in my eyes, mate, there's Yeah, it does

925
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: take a toll, yeah, but it's important that blokes out there,

926
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 2: you know, that are gone through I dare say there's

927
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 2: not many going through my situation. Yeah, but I dare

928
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 2: say there's blokes out there to listen to this that

929
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: are going through their own situation. All I would say

930
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: is that the one denominated that doesn't change is that

931
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: they're your kids. So you might be prevented prevented from

932
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 2: seeing them in the short term. Play the long game.

933
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: Those kids will come out of being children and become adults,

934
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 2: and they're going to need a father, you know, So

935
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: play the long game and step.

936
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: Up with greater dice and we might leave it there.

937
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

938
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: Cheers