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Speaker 1: But let's talk about road safety and GHD has it's

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Speaker 1: a leading professional services company operates in water, energy, resources, property, buildings, transport.

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Speaker 1: Are saying for the country to meet road safety targets,

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Speaker 1: primarily reducing the road toll, we need to think about

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Speaker 1: what we're doing in a different way. Adam Wilmot is

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Speaker 1: ghd's technical director and joins me now, Adam.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, good morning. How are you they all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? So over the last few years we've seen

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Speaker 1: road tolls around the country in different states increase on

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Speaker 1: the whole, and we went down last year here in Essay.

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Speaker 1: The year before that was absolutely tragic, more so than ever.

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Speaker 1: But we're going the wrong way as a trend.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's really been a trend since about twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen where fatalities in Australia, US, Canada, New Zealand, UK

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Speaker 2: many places that we operate has been on a plateau

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Speaker 2: and we really haven't made a dint and it's actually

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Speaker 2: starting to pick up. The trend is on an upward

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Speaker 2: trajectory now since about twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, so we

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Speaker 2: really have to think differently about how we save life.

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Speaker 1: Are there any common reasons why Is it speed, Is

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Speaker 1: it drugs, is it drinking? Road conditions, anything that stands

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Speaker 1: out has been a common factor in all those nations

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Speaker 1: you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've spoken to professional road safety leaders in

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Speaker 2: state and provincial jurisdictions and at the municipal level across

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Speaker 2: the world and the actions that they say, their research

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Speaker 2: and what they've managed to do. What really is going

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Speaker 2: to change the picture is managing speed, getting funding to

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Speaker 2: the right places at the right level of government, and

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Speaker 2: changing the way we talk to our community about road

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Speaker 2: safety and the well being can be derived from having

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Speaker 2: a safety transport network.

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Speaker 1: All right, So managing speed, let's look at that that

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Speaker 1: you're talking about our reduction and speed limits, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: That's one part of it, and I think when we

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the challenges is that when people

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Speaker 2: think about managing speed, they immediately go as you say,

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Speaker 2: and we get a lot of commentary around reducing speed limits.

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Speaker 2: But it's got to be undertaken in conjunction with increasing

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Speaker 2: automated enforcement, with education and with engineering interventions, where we

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Speaker 2: just know the road's not safe at the speed it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are sections of the road where we

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Speaker 2: would like to keep speeds higher, and we need to

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Speaker 2: improve those bits of the road so that they're safe

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Speaker 2: at higher speeds, and these sections of the roads we

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Speaker 2: just can't afford to do anything, and we've got to

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Speaker 2: reduce the speeds appropriately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting suburbs and we've got, for instance, some

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Speaker 1: councils looking at reduce the forty k a limit to

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Speaker 1: even thirty. How long before we've got a bloke and

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Speaker 1: a red flag walking in front of a car. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're there. I didn't think that was that hard a question.

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Speaker 1: He's disappeared, Adam, your line's dropped out. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: we might have to try and get you back. I reckon, Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: Tommy's trying to ring him again. So it's heading that way,

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Speaker 1: isn't it that if we reduce speeds back to the

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Speaker 1: days of early automation automotive rather where that was the

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Speaker 1: rule in the first few days of car ownership, probably

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Speaker 1: first year or two or three, who knows, but they

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Speaker 1: had people in front of the car. Don't know if

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Speaker 1: it happened here in Australia. It happened overseas certainly where

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Speaker 1: cars were introduced and that you had to have someone

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Speaker 1: in front with a flag to say there's a car coming.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty ridiculous, but that's how I was back in

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Speaker 1: the day. All Right, we'll try and get him back

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Speaker 1: from GHD. They're suggesting a whole range of things. He's

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Speaker 1: back at them. I was saying, if we lower the

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Speaker 1: speeds any further, we'll have to have a bloke with

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Speaker 1: a flag in front of a car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the guy in the front of the

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Speaker 2: car will probably get run over that day. Look, they've

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Speaker 2: seen this happen successfully elsewhere in the world. I mean

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Speaker 2: in Wales. Over the last year they dropped their default

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Speaker 2: speed limit in residential streets down to twenty miles per hour,

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Speaker 2: which is thirty two k's an hour, and they saw

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Speaker 2: a twenty five percent reduction in the number of people

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Speaker 2: killed and injured on their network. So we know it

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Speaker 2: saves lives. We know from travel time surveys that it

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Speaker 2: makes no difference to how long it takes you to

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Speaker 2: get to your journey because you're only talking about the

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Speaker 2: last couple of hundred meters or half a kilometer at

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Speaker 2: the most, So it doesn't impact speed travel times, and

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Speaker 2: it does make it much safer for kids and dogs

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Speaker 2: and other people walking and and riding around the street.

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Speaker 2: So one way to think about speed is if you

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Speaker 2: think about passy bolt and if he were to run

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Speaker 2: full pelt into a wall, he might break a colard bone,

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Speaker 2: maybe a concussion, but he'd probably get up and walk

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Speaker 2: himself to the hospital. And that's at about thirty ks

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Speaker 2: an hour. The human body just isn't designed to hit

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Speaker 2: things or be hit by things faster than about thirty

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Speaker 2: ks an hour. So if we're going to look after

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Speaker 2: the people in our street, in their neighborhood and want

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Speaker 2: to be safe ourselves, bringing impact speeds down to thirty

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Speaker 2: ks an hour is really the way to go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, managing community support, that's one of the things you reckon.

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Speaker 1: It's critical in this do you reckon? People will be

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Speaker 1: behind this. And I suppose you look back to even

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Speaker 1: the reduction in suburban streets from sixty to fifty, going

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Speaker 1: back the best part of twenty years ago, we became

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Speaker 1: used to that. Today absolutely it's not an issue, and

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Speaker 1: most people do sit on fifty so it feels natural,

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Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. So I suppose with time anything

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Speaker 1: is possible. But I just reckon a big switch down

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Speaker 1: to say thirty from fifty is going to be a

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Speaker 1: step too far, too quickly.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's success stories elsewhere in the window. I've mentioned Wales,

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Speaker 2: christ Church City Council, New Zealand. They engage their community

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Speaker 2: on discussions around liveability, around what they want their neighborhoods

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Speaker 2: to be like, and explored the sorts of communities people

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Speaker 2: wanted to be in. And one of the believers that

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Speaker 2: they could pull to make it safer, to make it quieter,

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Speaker 2: to have less fumes, was to reduce the speeds of vehicles.

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Speaker 2: And so the conversation is around the sort of places

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Speaker 2: we want to live and when you think about that

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Speaker 2: and you think about what your life would be like

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Speaker 2: in neighborhoods that are different to what we have now,

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Speaker 2: as far as fifty k's an now, it starts to

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Speaker 2: make sense to people that yes, traveling slower is better

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Speaker 2: for us in our local neighborhood streets. There are streets

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Speaker 2: that are really wide that don't feel right to be

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Speaker 2: going that slow. And that's where we need to think

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Speaker 2: about interventions physical changes to the network to help people

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Speaker 2: understand that it is a slower environment to be traveling through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and look, there's many streets if we all

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Speaker 1: put our mind to it, you'd think there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of streets around the place, maybe streets we all go

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Speaker 1: down regularly where you could, probably rightly for safety, slow

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Speaker 1: down because there might be kids around he or it's

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Speaker 1: narrow cars parked or whatever. But the speed limit is fifty.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean you have to try and do fifty because

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Speaker 1: it may just be impossible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And we have that situation on rural

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Speaker 2: roads as well, where you'll go out and the hills

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Speaker 2: and you'll see speed limits of one hundred ks an

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Speaker 2: hour or it's done posted and you say, or the

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Speaker 2: default is one hundred, but you know, because of the

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Speaker 2: you know, the geometry, the curves, the other things. You're

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Speaker 2: going through a smaller past of a small village or something,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't feel right to be going that speed.

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Speaker 2: But if you're unfamiliar with an area and you get

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Speaker 2: a lot of visitors into the state and you see

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Speaker 2: a sign that says one hundred, you'll find people trying

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Speaker 2: to get to one hundred. And so we need to

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Speaker 2: really think about the messaging we give to people through

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Speaker 2: the speed signing.

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Speaker 1: And the one thing you can't control, because I know

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Speaker 1: you say, it's not unrealistic to say even one person

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Speaker 1: should die on our roads. But do you really think

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Speaker 1: a zero road tile is achievable, because you can't. The

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Speaker 1: thing you can't control is stupidity on the roads.

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Speaker 2: No, you can't control stupidity, and you can't control the

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Speaker 2: fact that people make mistakes. But you know, someone makes

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Speaker 2: a mistake, you know, they look down to change the radio,

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Speaker 2: they turn around to check why their kids started screaming.

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Speaker 2: They shouldn't die for that, and whether that mistake is

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Speaker 2: you know, what we might think of is irresponsible drinking

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Speaker 2: or speeding, or whether that's just human speeding humans, we

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Speaker 2: shouldn't really die because of it. And we need to

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Speaker 2: manage our road network and transport system so that when

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Speaker 2: things do go wrong, people don't die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the there's a moral there's a moral imperative

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Speaker 2: to doing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't disagree with what you've said,

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Speaker 1: just just a question though. I mean, when the road

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Speaker 1: time was trickling down here in essay, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that was credited for that was safer cars. So

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Speaker 1: the improvements over the years air bags, a b S

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Speaker 1: and the other thing that controls the breaking well that

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Speaker 1: that controls breaking over, but it let's you steer with

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Speaker 1: the car going into a spin and all of that

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Speaker 1: traction control. That's what I'm thinking of. So all this stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: safer cars, air bags, crumple zones. Why have we gone

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Speaker 1: in the other direction with all this technology?

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Speaker 2: I don't know that we have gone in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: You said the road toll has been increasing, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were steadily decreasing. Yeah, okay, but.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that, sorry, the wrong direction with the fatollog.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, correct, with safer and safer cars every single.

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Speaker 2: Year, we couldn't get better with our cars, that's for certain.

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Speaker 2: You know, the Australian design rules enable vehicles to come

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Speaker 2: onto our roads that would not be allowed in Europe

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Speaker 2: really other parts. Yeah, the Australian design rules are about

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Speaker 2: seven years behind Europe, and if we were to just

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Speaker 2: adopt the European standards, we would make a significant change

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Speaker 2: in the technology being allowed on our roads from from

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Speaker 2: the from the next year. With respect to why the

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Speaker 2: why is the road toll going up? I think we've

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Speaker 2: got a lot more heavy vehicles on the road. You know,

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Speaker 2: you see the size of some of the pickup trucks

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Speaker 2: that we now have, and you can see that the

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Speaker 2: fatality numbers are in increasing in the likes of pedestrians

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Speaker 2: and cyclists. While people occupants of vehicles are safer, the

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Speaker 2: people outside the vehicles are where we're getting hurt. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's a big part of it. We're certainly seeing a

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Speaker 2: shift in fatalities from rural and metropolitan difference, and you

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Speaker 2: can imagine in metropolitan areas access to emergency services is

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Speaker 2: much better. We tend to have seen a reduction in

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Speaker 2: fatalities in metropolitan areas, but an increase in serious injuries

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Speaker 2: people you know, suffering permanent life, just changing injury, but living,

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Speaker 2: living but damaged.

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Speaker 1: Adam, let me read you a couple of text here

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Speaker 1: that have come through where we've been chatting. Mixedes. Governments

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Speaker 1: have had the most revenue you ever available to them,

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Speaker 1: they choose not to spend it on roads, particularly in

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Speaker 1: the country. I reckon there's some truth to that, whether

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Speaker 1: you want to comment on that or not, But this

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Speaker 1: one I think I will get you to comment on

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Speaker 1: if I can. Kim of Torrensville says speed limits are down. Yes,

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Speaker 1: in Dublin. Have you seen their roads and suburbs, cobblestone

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Speaker 1: lanes thirty kilometers speed limits. In Adelaide, we'll see entitled

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Speaker 1: cyclists overtaking cars. Roads in Italy, Croatia, Austria, Germany one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty k's never saw an accidencein seven weeks

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Speaker 1: there recently, but he's right, thirty k's. In Adelaide, you

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Speaker 1: will have bikes going faster.

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Speaker 2: Some of them, but you'd also get a lot of

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Speaker 2: people out on their bicycles who might not want to

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Speaker 2: wear likra, who just want a toodles to the school

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Speaker 2: with their kids, will go up to the shops with

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Speaker 2: a basket. So yeah, okay, there's some cyclists that are

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Speaker 2: traveling faster than that, but with the idea is that

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Speaker 2: it becomes safer for everybody. And we don't think about

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Speaker 2: cycling as something that you're doing like or we think

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Speaker 2: about cycling something you do to get to school or

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Speaker 2: get to the doctors or the shop. And yes, some

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Speaker 2: of our roads do not feel like thirty is the

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Speaker 2: right you know, it just doesn't feel right yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that's where we need to introduce some engineering and interventions,

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Speaker 2: you know, put in roundabouts instead of crossroads. These gateway

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Speaker 2: treatments and another indicators so the drivers go, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: in a different space. I am in a residential street.

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Speaker 2: This makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Now, we haven't mastered indicators on roundabouts, so you want

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Speaker 1: more around them. About that's another story.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that indicators on roundabouts essential. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: should do it, but if someone doesn't do the indicator

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Speaker 2: should still be watching where they're coming from. The big

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Speaker 2: advantage with roundabouts is that the speed you hit the

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Speaker 2: other car or they hit you is down below thirty.

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Speaker 1: Kilometers an hour, and there's your survivability.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Good.

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Speaker 1: On you, Adam. Thank you for the chat. Really interesting food.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Adam Wilmot GHD Technical director bringing down the

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Speaker 1: road toll to by making the roads safer and yep,

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Speaker 1: slower