Speaker 1: Tonight to ten. We're live in Ukraine, a country at
Speaker 1: war after a huge Russian military offensive by land, sea
Speaker 1: and air.
Speaker 2: When Russia struck Ukraine four years ago, it kicked off
Speaker 2: the first full scale war in Europe since World War Two.
Speaker 1: The onslaught began just before dawn with a barrage of
Speaker 1: missiles on multiple targets right across the country.
Speaker 3: Against all odds and doom and gloom scenarios, Ukraine didn't fall.
Speaker 1: Ukraine is alive and kigging.
Speaker 3: You're and my cousin served in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Speaker 3: He was a combat medic and he went to serve
Speaker 3: since the very first days of Russia's full scale invasion.
Speaker 2: Katarina Arjuru lives in Sydney, but she's originally from Ukraine.
Speaker 3: He was targeted by an enemy drone and a Russian
Speaker 3: drone hit him and killed him on the spot, something
Speaker 3: that was completely unexpected and completely tore our parts apart
Speaker 3: and our family apart.
Speaker 2: With no sign of a peace still coming, Ukrainian families
Speaker 2: are bracing for even more loss. They're also freezing through
Speaker 2: winter because Russia has knocked out large parts of the
Speaker 2: electricity grid.
Speaker 4: The heavy borrowers have left Ukraine's grids and power stations
Speaker 4: in their worst states since the war begun. And it's
Speaker 4: a vicious cycle because as soon as CRUs restore hitting,
Speaker 4: Russia strikes again.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven AM today
Speaker 2: Katerina Arjaru, chair of the Australian Federation of Ukrainian Organizations,
Speaker 2: on traveling through a war torn country and is it
Speaker 2: time for Ukraine to cut a deal? It's Wednesday, February
Speaker 2: twenty five. Katerina. I know you as an advocate for
Speaker 2: your community here in Australia, but you're also deeply connected
Speaker 2: to your country back home, and your mom still lives there.
Speaker 2: You just returned from seeing her. How is she surviving
Speaker 2: the wall?
Speaker 3: My mom is recovering from an injury that she sustained
Speaker 3: as a result of a Russian missile attack. The missile
Speaker 3: hit the building right next to hers. As a result,
Speaker 3: all the windows in her apartment blew out, her bedroom
Speaker 3: door blew out. She was thrown across the room. She
Speaker 3: hit her head on the wall. She had a major
Speaker 3: head injury, which resulted in her going to hospital. She
Speaker 3: was hospitalized number of brain scans later. She's still suffering
Speaker 3: and recovering from that injury. This happened back in August.
Speaker 3: I received a photo from my mom and the photo
Speaker 3: was of her bedroom. All the windows shattered, and there
Speaker 3: was a photo on the ground of my sister and
Speaker 3: I when we were children, And right away I realized
Speaker 3: that that was my mom's apartment. I realized that was
Speaker 3: my mom's bedroom because I remember exactly where that photo stood.
Speaker 3: And I called her right away and I asked what happened,
Speaker 3: and she said, I still have ringing in my ears.
Speaker 3: I have no idea how this happened. But there are
Speaker 3: no windows, there are no doors, but luckily she survived.
Speaker 2: It is the middle of winter in Ukraine now, and
Speaker 2: for the last few months, Russia has been heavily targeting
Speaker 2: the country's infrastructure. It's electricity grid. There's big blackouts. Could
Speaker 2: you tell us about exactly what's happening, what they're hitting
Speaker 2: and how people are getting through the winter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Russia is systematically currently during winter targeting the energy grid.
Speaker 3: So every single power plant in Ukraine has been hit.
Speaker 3: There isn't a single power plant in Ukraine that hasn't
Speaker 3: been damaged. A lot of them have been completely destroyed.
Speaker 3: There's no heating, there's no light because there is no electricity,
Speaker 3: there's no pumps to pump water, so you are left
Speaker 3: with millions of people just in Kiva alone, completely without
Speaker 3: any source of power. And at the time that I
Speaker 3: was there, it was minus thirteen. Since that time, the
Speaker 3: temperature has dropped even further. So sometimes there were nights
Speaker 3: where it was minus twenty minus twenty two outside, which
Speaker 3: means that in the apartment it's not as bad, but
Speaker 3: it's still negative temperatures.
Speaker 2: There's been no heating here for more than two weeks,
Speaker 2: and power cuts mean the lifts rarely work.
Speaker 3: Cool cool, cold, cold, It's very cold. I walk around shevering,
Speaker 3: especially in the mornings. I wake up and it's awful.
Speaker 3: Everything is I see. I turn on the oven and
Speaker 3: just tend their warming myself. What else can my mom had,
Speaker 3: you know, plants that were around the apartment, all of
Speaker 3: them frozen. Water and cups that was left in the
Speaker 3: sink completely frozen, even water in the toilet frozen. Luckily,
Speaker 3: my mom had a gas stove, so we tried to
Speaker 3: heat things on the gas stove, but many people don't
Speaker 3: have that, they have electric stoves. So you're completely cut
Speaker 3: off from everything. You're literally in the dark ages. You're
Speaker 3: sitting there shivering, sleeping, and I was sleeping in a
Speaker 3: fur coat with three blankets over me, saying with my mom,
Speaker 3: and you still feel this bone chilling cold. The days
Speaker 3: are very short. We would get live probably in the
Speaker 3: morning at around eight o'clock. By the time four o'clock hit,
Speaker 3: it would already be pitch dark outside, so you're living
Speaker 3: in this darkness constantly. You go outside, everything's covered in eyes.
Speaker 3: Everybody's slipping and falling down. I fell down several times myself.
Speaker 3: Then you have this smell of gasoline and diesel in
Speaker 3: the air because every single store, shop, cafe is running
Speaker 3: on a generator. You hear this incredible sound of just
Speaker 3: through the entire street and the entire city, because there's
Speaker 3: generators operating literally every three steps that you take. So
Speaker 3: it's just this incredible feeling of people trying to do
Speaker 3: what they can to survive and live another day.
Speaker 2: Also, on this trip that you just had, you visited
Speaker 2: the really strategically important city of Odessa. Why did you
Speaker 2: decide to go there, what's happening there and why is
Speaker 2: it so important for Ukraine? To hold onto it.
Speaker 3: Odessa, first of all, is a very key strategic city
Speaker 3: in Ukraine. It's on It's located on the Black Sea,
Speaker 3: it is a major port. It is a city where
Speaker 3: a lot of trade goes through. Russia has been targeting
Speaker 3: not only the energy grid and Odessa and Odessa oblist,
Speaker 3: but it's been targeting the port specifically, and that's to
Speaker 3: cripple Ukraine's ability to trade and ability to sustain itself
Speaker 3: in any possible way. But also it's a huge cultural
Speaker 3: center of Ukraine. There is a lot of historically significant
Speaker 3: buildings there that Russia is also destroying, so they are
Speaker 3: attacking on multiple fronts.
Speaker 1: Firefighters battle another night of Russian bombardment in the Ukrainian
Speaker 1: port city of Odessa in the south.
Speaker 2: Toll from Friday's late attack on Odessa has risen it
Speaker 2: to a Some of the twenty seven reported injured. What
Speaker 2: any bus when the attack happened.
Speaker 3: As I was driving to Odessa, I had to cross
Speaker 3: over a bridge that connected Moldova to Ukraine, and it
Speaker 3: was that bridge a week before that was hit by
Speaker 3: Russian drowns. So as I was driving, there was only
Speaker 3: one lane that was open, and there was a lady
Speaker 3: that was driving me, and the lady was saying, if
Speaker 3: you look to the right, you can see where the
Speaker 3: first drone hit and there was a massive hole in
Speaker 3: this bridge. Then if you look further to the right,
Speaker 3: you can see where the second drone hit, again a
Speaker 3: massive hole in the bridge. So Russia was systematically trying
Speaker 3: to cut off that point of transport. And as we
Speaker 3: crossed the bridge, I saw a massive flash of light.
Speaker 3: We were driving at about nine pm, so it was
Speaker 3: pitch black, a massive flash of light on the horizon,
Speaker 3: and that was a missile strike that hit Odessa as
Speaker 3: we were driving in. And because we had the head
Speaker 3: of the Odessa Date Emergency Services here, Colonel Fitkalov, he
Speaker 3: was my point of contact in Odessa, so I called
Speaker 3: him right away and I asked, you know what happened
Speaker 3: and is it safe to go? And he said, look,
Speaker 3: they've just hit an industrial site. It should be okay
Speaker 3: for you to cross, and we will meet you as
Speaker 3: you get to Odessa. But this is just literally minutes
Speaker 3: of what I experienced as I drove into Ukraine. But
Speaker 3: that is what Ukrainians live with on a daily basis.
Speaker 3: There are, you know, just so many buildings as I
Speaker 3: during the day, as I was driving around, that are
Speaker 3: absolutely in rumble, just residential buildings. So not only is
Speaker 3: Russia striking critical infrastructure and striking the power grid, they're
Speaker 3: targeting regular civilians, regular residential buildings that have absolutely no
Speaker 3: military significance or strategic value, just to terrorize the local population.
Speaker 2: Coming up, is it time for Ukraine to cut a deal, Katerina,
Speaker 2: We know that since Trump became president, he says that
Speaker 2: he wants to end the war in Ukraine. The Ukraine
Speaker 2: War has to end, and it's a ridiculous war and
Speaker 2: it has to end.
Speaker 1: We had a good time.
Speaker 2: Now he humiliated Zelenski in the White House. You're gambling
Speaker 2: with the lives or millions of people.
Speaker 1: See, you're gambling with World War three.
Speaker 2: And then we had the summit between Putin and Trump
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere there. We didn't
Speaker 2: get there, but we have a very good chance of
Speaker 2: getting there. I would like to thank President Putin as
Speaker 2: his entire team. Could you tell us what is happening
Speaker 2: on the front line four years on and how the
Speaker 2: nature of the war has also changed.
Speaker 3: So we will be marking four years of a full
Speaker 3: scale invasion that Russia has been waging against Ukraine. If
Speaker 3: we look at the losses that the Russian Federation has sustained,
Speaker 3: it's over one point two million people that they have
Speaker 3: lost or are injured in some shipwere or form one
Speaker 3: point two million casualties. That is the largest number that
Speaker 3: we have seen since World War Two. Despite the fact
Speaker 3: that they have such high casualties and their accomplishments on
Speaker 3: the battlefield are minimal, they still keep pressing. They still
Speaker 3: keep sending their people to die. It's an absolute meat grinder.
Speaker 3: They're considering the Russian Federation's advantage in terms of people
Speaker 3: power and the fact that Ukrainians are not only outnumbered,
Speaker 3: they are also outgunned. Ukraine has managed to show incredible resilience,
Speaker 3: not only as a country but specifically on the battlefield.
Speaker 3: And if we look at what has happened last week,
Speaker 3: Ukraine had regained over two hundred square kilometers of Ukrainian
Speaker 3: land in just five days. That is the biggest amount
Speaker 3: of land that Ukraine has managed to take back since
Speaker 3: the beginning of the full scale invasion in terms of territory.
Speaker 2: Could you tell us about that change on the battlefield though,
Speaker 2: how it has really completely switched over to a type
Speaker 2: of drone warfare.
Speaker 3: Yes, so if we would look at the front line, before,
Speaker 3: there would be a clear front line where military activity
Speaker 3: would be taking place, battles would be taking place. Now,
Speaker 3: because of the evolution of drone warfare and the extensive
Speaker 3: use of drones and different types of drones, that battlefield
Speaker 3: has stretched out to anywhere from thirty to forty kilometers
Speaker 3: from that line dividing the Russian occupied territory from Ukrainian territory.
Speaker 3: So that's the first point. The second point is that
Speaker 3: technology that's used on the battlefield has also evolved and
Speaker 3: evolved at lightning speed. We have a military aid fun
Speaker 3: called the Defend Ukraine Appeal and we get different requests
Speaker 3: from different brigades. We currently support over fifty one different
Speaker 3: brigades across the entire frontline. And whereas before we were
Speaker 3: getting requests for evacuation vehicles and drones, now we're getting
Speaker 3: a lot of requests for SYSTEMATREB, which are anti drone jammers.
Speaker 3: So they have these jammers that would stop FPV drones
Speaker 3: from hitting them, whether it's in the trenches or as
Speaker 3: they conduct their military operations.
Speaker 2: On the political front. It's been reported by the Financial
Speaker 2: Times that Ukraine is preparing to hold a presidential election
Speaker 2: and a referendum on a piece deal because of all
Speaker 2: this pressure that is coming from President Trump to have
Speaker 2: a vote by May. What can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2: What are people saying in Ukraine?
Speaker 3: People definitely see the headlines and see the external pressure.
Speaker 3: I go to Ukraine quite often. I obviously have my
Speaker 3: whole family there. I hear their feedback, but I also
Speaker 3: speak to a lot of different Ukrainians and the feedback
Speaker 3: is unanimous that Ukraine must decide when to hold elections
Speaker 3: on Ukraine's terms. It cannot be date that's set by
Speaker 3: an external party, and Ukraine shouldn't be forced into it.
Speaker 3: But the biggest problem that we have about holding elections,
Speaker 3: it's not the fact that we don't want to, it's
Speaker 3: how to physically do it. We have hundreds of thousands
Speaker 3: of Ukrainian citizens that are currently on the front line
Speaker 3: as part of the armed forces of Ukraine. How do
Speaker 3: they take part in elections? We currently have almost twenty
Speaker 3: percent of the country that's under occupied forces. How do
Speaker 3: we make sure that those people can participate in the elections?
Speaker 3: And on top of that, we have daily missile and
Speaker 3: drone strikes that strike any area of where people congregate.
Speaker 3: You have Ukrainians that are displaced not only outside of
Speaker 3: the country, but there are millions of people that are
Speaker 3: internally displaced. So how do you make sure that they
Speaker 3: can vote properly? So a combination of all of that
Speaker 3: makes it extremely difficult to hold fair and open and
Speaker 3: safe elections in Ukraine.
Speaker 2: Right now, Katarina, we're now entering the fifth year of
Speaker 2: this war, and it doesn't really look like either side
Speaker 2: is making huge progress.
Speaker 3: It feels as though it could.
Speaker 2: Just drag on or remain in a stalemate like this
Speaker 2: for another five years. Do you think it's time for
Speaker 2: Ukraine to cut a deal, even if it has to
Speaker 2: give up some territory that it can't beat Russia? And
Speaker 2: it's enough.
Speaker 3: I can start with the last point that you made.
Speaker 3: It's certainly enough. Ukrainians feel the pressure physically, psychologically, They're exhausted,
Speaker 3: they are tormented every day. They are under immense amount
Speaker 3: of stress. But from what I hear from my family,
Speaker 3: every single person that I've spoken in Ukraine, they will
Speaker 3: never give up. This is not a matter of cutting
Speaker 3: a deal. This is not a matter of you know,
Speaker 3: give Russia whatever they want at this stage and make
Speaker 3: it go away and make it stop. The only way
Speaker 3: we can make it stop is if Russia is brought
Speaker 3: to account, is if Russia is defeated on the battlefield.
Speaker 3: Every single negotiation, every single truce, every single ceasefire that
Speaker 3: has been agreed to by Russia, all of that has
Speaker 3: been violated. So you give twenty percent of Ukraine to
Speaker 3: Russia today, tomorrow they will come back to try and
Speaker 3: take more. It's very difficult to cut a deal with
Speaker 3: a terrorist when you know that they will just come
Speaker 3: back and try to kill you again the next day.
Speaker 3: So that's why Ukrainians are absolutely confident and know that
Speaker 3: there is absolutely no other way than to defeat Russia
Speaker 3: on the battlefield, make sure that Russians go home, have
Speaker 3: some sort of security guarantees and protection from partner countries
Speaker 3: and those that value democracy, that value freedom, and for
Speaker 3: us to not only be in this together, but win
Speaker 3: this together.
Speaker 2: Katerina, thank you so much for coming and talking to
Speaker 2: me today.
Speaker 3: Thank you Nicole for the opportunity.
Speaker 2: Also in the news, police suspect human remains found near
Speaker 2: a golf club in Sydney's Northwest belonged to kidnapped grandfather
Speaker 2: Chris Bagsarian. The eighty five year old was taken hostage
Speaker 2: from his Sydney home almost a fortnight ago in what
Speaker 2: police says a suspected case of mistaken identity. Detectives have
Speaker 2: said that mister Bagsarian's family never received any demand for
Speaker 2: ransom or communication from his captors, and The Royal Commission
Speaker 2: on Anti Semitism and Social Cohesion has started with state
Speaker 2: and federal government agencies issued with notices to produce documents
Speaker 2: as part of the inquiry, called a month after the
Speaker 2: deadly Bondai terror attack. The inquiry will look at anti
Speaker 2: Semitism in Australian society and institutions, as well as the
Speaker 2: circumstances around the mass shooting. In her opening address, Commission
Speaker 2: of Virginia Bell said she's interested in hearing from Jewish
Speaker 2: Australians who vi ex experienced anti Semitism. The Commission had
Speaker 2: been directed to make recommendations on how to strengthen social
Speaker 2: cohesion encounter the spread of ideological and religiously motivated extremism,
Speaker 2: and will deliver its final report by December fourteenth. I'm
Speaker 2: Nicole Johnston. This is seven am catch you tomorrow.