WEBVTT - Murder charge in podcast cold case

0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.360
<v Speaker 1>You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.639
<v Speaker 1>every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:23.319
<v Speaker 1>the news from the Australian. From the Australian, Here's what's

0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.639
<v Speaker 1>on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Friday, August sixteenth.

0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.960
<v Speaker 1>A shortage of intravenous fluids, including saline, has been causing

0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.080
<v Speaker 1>chaos in Australian hospitals, with patients at risk from dehydration

0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.879
<v Speaker 1>and other complications. Regulators claim it's a global shortage, but

0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.640
<v Speaker 1>sources say Australia has failed to procure vital supplies. That's

0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.120
<v Speaker 1>an exclusive live now at the Australian dot Com. A

0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.080
<v Speaker 1>labor scheme to get more aged care workers into Australia

0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.280
<v Speaker 1>is off to a slow start. Fewer than five hundred

0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.600
<v Speaker 1>visas have been granted in the program's first year, and

0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.520
<v Speaker 1>of those, only eighty four were given to offshore applicants.

0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.559
<v Speaker 1>The aged care sector is still facing critical staff shortages.

0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.640
<v Speaker 1>In twenty fifteen, our podcast The Alibi investigated the unsolved

0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:25.480
<v Speaker 1>murder of Denise Givindir, a Sydney mother brutally beaten to

0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.800
<v Speaker 1>death in her own home. Her husband, Aaron Gavinda, told

0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.440
<v Speaker 1>police a home invader had knocked him unconscious and bound

0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:38.319
<v Speaker 1>him with cable ties before killing Denise. Now Aaron has

0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.399
<v Speaker 1>been charged with murder today, Why this twenty six year

0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:47.440
<v Speaker 1>old cold case is back before the courts?

0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Aaron, Yes, Hello, my name's Yanni Bashan. I'm a reporter

0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:56.400
<v Speaker 2>with the Sunday Telegraph. How are you.

0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm well fine. Were you expecting me, Bonny Chance?

0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:05.400
<v Speaker 1>No, that's our reporter Joannie Bashan in twenty fifteen, attempting

0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.000
<v Speaker 1>to talk to a man named Aaron Gavinda. He was

0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.440
<v Speaker 1>a widower and his wife, Denise, the mother of their children,

0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.960
<v Speaker 1>had been brutally beaten to death in her own home

0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:17.360
<v Speaker 1>many years earlier.

0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing a story about your wife, Denise. Come on,

0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.960
<v Speaker 2>come on, I'm writing a story about Denise's murder. I'd

0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.840
<v Speaker 2>like to ask you a couple of questions if you're available,

0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Just a couple of questions.

0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.519
<v Speaker 1>It's been nine years since Yanni knocked on that door,

0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.040
<v Speaker 1>and now this there's been a cold case breakthrough today,

0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.040
<v Speaker 1>some twenty six years in the making. An eighty one

0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.560
<v Speaker 1>year old man arrested over the alleged murder of his wife,

0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.919
<v Speaker 1>Denise Gavinda. This morning. Aaron Gavinda will face a court

0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.640
<v Speaker 1>charged with Denise's murder more than twenty six years after

0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.600
<v Speaker 1>her death. He's not been required to enter a plea

0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.000
<v Speaker 1>and will likely defend the charge. Evidence has yet been

0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.919
<v Speaker 1>brought before a court, but on Thursday afternoon, Jonnie broke

0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.640
<v Speaker 1>the story on the Australian dot com dot that Aaron

0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Gavinda had been charged. The audio you just heard was

0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.360
<v Speaker 1>first aired in a podcast Joannie and I produced in

0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen. Back then, we were both working at the

0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Sunday Telegraph, just one floor upstairs from where we both

0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.600
<v Speaker 1>worked today at The Australian. The podcast is called The Alibi.

0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.440
<v Speaker 1>It was in the early days of true crime podcasting,

0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and although Jonnie and I were experienced newspaper journalists, we

0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.280
<v Speaker 1>were excited about this new way we could bring our

0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.440
<v Speaker 1>stories to new audiences. This was one of Australia's first

0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:55.560
<v Speaker 1>investigative podcasts, Yanni. When we made The Alibi, we didn't

0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.320
<v Speaker 1>really know that much about how to make podcasts. We

0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.160
<v Speaker 1>even hit up one of your friends, Josh Conn, a

0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.240
<v Speaker 1>talented musician, to compose the theme music for us. That's

0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.160
<v Speaker 1>what we're playing now. We kind of did what we

0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.960
<v Speaker 1>would do if we were doing this for the newspaper

0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.000
<v Speaker 1>but turned it into audio. We recorded everything we did.

0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.880
<v Speaker 1>It was a real learning curve, wasn't it.

0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? It was a very unusual time. It was twenty fifteen.

0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.120
<v Speaker 3>There was a very popular podcast overseas called Cereal, which

0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.600
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't heard yet. I remember coming to you and saying, look,

0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.760
<v Speaker 3>I've got this interesting idea to investigate a cold case

0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.839
<v Speaker 3>murder and doing it in some meticulous detail, and I

0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.680
<v Speaker 3>remember your response was like, why don't we do it

0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.280
<v Speaker 3>as a podcast? I think I might have even said,

0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.360
<v Speaker 3>what's a podcast? But it was a really enjoyable learning experience.

0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.120
<v Speaker 3>It was an unusual way to explore the details of

0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.160
<v Speaker 3>an unsolved crime, and it was also a highly effective

0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.600
<v Speaker 3>way of doing it because we know that the police

0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.440
<v Speaker 3>listened to it. We know that they followed our coverage

0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.440
<v Speaker 3>in the years afterwards, and we know that ultimately it

0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.560
<v Speaker 3>led to an independent investigation of this particular murder, and

0:04:59.120 --> 0:04:59.920
<v Speaker 3>that led to where we are.

0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.599
<v Speaker 4>Benny Gavinda devoted her life to helping batted women. Last night,

0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.800
<v Speaker 4>Missus Gavinda became the victim of violence, bashed to death

0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.640
<v Speaker 4>during an apparent home invasion at Dover Heights.

0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>By twenty fifteen, when we released The Alibi, Denise's murder

0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.799
<v Speaker 1>was a seventeen year old cold case. She'd been murdered

0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.880
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety eight in her own bedroom. Aaron Gavinda

0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.799
<v Speaker 1>told police in an interview recorded about two months later

0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.960
<v Speaker 1>of a terrifying encounter in that home in Dover Heights,

0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.919
<v Speaker 1>a suburb overlooking the cliffs just north of Bondai Beach.

0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Here's a bit of our podcast, The Alibi. We included

0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.680
<v Speaker 1>some of Aaron's police interview, and then you'll hear Yoannie's

0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:53.880
<v Speaker 1>voice from episode one.

0:05:52.839 --> 0:06:00.560
<v Speaker 2>And obouly blood. I came here and read Caplogium had

0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.360
<v Speaker 2>asked for an ambulance, said police.

0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.440
<v Speaker 4>I filled her out. I didn't know where to feel

0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:07.960
<v Speaker 4>a pulse.

0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was all flop o. Now Aaron wouldn't talk

0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.440
<v Speaker 2>to me, but that was him speaking to police about

0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.919
<v Speaker 2>two months after Denise's murder. So, Aaron has been the

0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.440
<v Speaker 2>victim of a terrible crime. His wife has been murdered,

0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and even worse, he's living with the fact that police

0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.159
<v Speaker 2>at some point have investigated the theory that he was

0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the killer. Though he's never been charged. His story has

0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>always been the same he and his wife were victims

0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.159
<v Speaker 2>of a home invasion. But there's no getting away from

0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the fact that Aaron's account doesn't answer some pretty big questions.

0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.480
<v Speaker 3>Like how the house at first.

0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Looked like the scene of a robbery yet nothing of

0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.960
<v Speaker 2>value was taken, or why the killer stole the family

0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.720
<v Speaker 2>car and then dumped it down the road. And here's

0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.120
<v Speaker 2>another one. The cable ties used to bind both Denise

0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.440
<v Speaker 2>and Aaron were identical to those sold under the brand

0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.359
<v Speaker 2>name Landier, which could only be purchased from one hardware

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.400
<v Speaker 2>chain in the country, and the nearest one was located

0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.560
<v Speaker 2>just down the road from the Gavinda family home. But

0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.680
<v Speaker 2>above all, there's this why would anyone want to kill

0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Denise Gavenda?

0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.320
<v Speaker 5>Afternoon everyone, Detective Superintendent Danny Doherty, Commander Homicide Squad, State

0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:22.000
<v Speaker 5>Crime Command.

0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.600
<v Speaker 1>This is the new South Wales Police's Homicide Squad, Commander

0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Danny Doherty.

0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.680
<v Speaker 5>About ten to fifteen am today, Strifle's detectives the rest

0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.720
<v Speaker 5>of eighty one year old man at Springwood Police Station,

0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.360
<v Speaker 5>where has been now charged with one count of murder.

0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.560
<v Speaker 1>After we broke the story on the Astralian, Danny Doherty

0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.360
<v Speaker 1>revealed more details about how Aaron Gavinda was arrested.

0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.600
<v Speaker 5>This is a hard slog of investigation. This is twenty

0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.320
<v Speaker 5>six years in the making, including the original investigation and

0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.560
<v Speaker 5>looking at the evidence with fresh eyes, but building on

0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.560
<v Speaker 5>the evidence that had already been obtained, and reinterviewing certain witnesses,

0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.040
<v Speaker 5>gaining information from members of the public, reinterviewing other people,

0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.640
<v Speaker 5>gaining new medical evidence is important, and also gaining new

0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.480
<v Speaker 5>forensic evidence. So in totality it's formed a very convincing

0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.360
<v Speaker 5>and compelling, circumstantial brief of evidence and which we will

0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.200
<v Speaker 5>put to the court that this person who was arrested

0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.960
<v Speaker 5>in charge today was the sole person responsible for Denise's murder.

0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.080
<v Speaker 1>What police will allege when this matter gets to trial

0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.880
<v Speaker 1>is that Aaron Gavinda staged the break in, murdered Denise himself,

0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.480
<v Speaker 1>cable tied her, and then made up a story that

0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.520
<v Speaker 1>someone had broken in, claiming to be a police officer,

0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and knocked Aaron unconscious.

0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.120
<v Speaker 5>Will allege who was a stage robbery just to cover

0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.280
<v Speaker 5>the tracks allegedly of what's been committed, which was a

0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.320
<v Speaker 5>murder in essence, a domestic violence murder. And that's important

0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.760
<v Speaker 5>that it was never lost on us that this is

0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.280
<v Speaker 5>a woman that lost her life finally in our own home.

0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.840
<v Speaker 5>That's been something that's driven and motivated the investigators from

0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.280
<v Speaker 5>day one since nineteen ninety eight. What we're in the

0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:06.839
<v Speaker 5>facts in relation of this matter, and I got to

0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:08.680
<v Speaker 5>be careful because it is before the court, but what

0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.839
<v Speaker 5>we're legend the facts was that there was no break in,

0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.880
<v Speaker 5>There was no bogus police officer. The circumstances, which we'll outline,

0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.920
<v Speaker 5>was that this man was responsible for violently assaulting to

0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.400
<v Speaker 5>Nice and then stage a robbery in terms of putting

0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.200
<v Speaker 5>things out in the place that make it look like

0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.600
<v Speaker 5>a robbery, when in fact nothing was actually stolen, No

0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.640
<v Speaker 5>value biles were ever stolen. There were circumstances that were

0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:38.480
<v Speaker 5>inconsistent with virgins provided and even the car going missing

0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.200
<v Speaker 5>had only been found a short distance away, was quite unusual.

0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.079
<v Speaker 5>And all these circumstances and on top of other things

0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.360
<v Speaker 5>were legend in the facts we believe make it compelling

0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.880
<v Speaker 5>that this person should be charged with her murder.

0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Doughty revealed Aaron Givinde attended Springwood Police Station near his

0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.840
<v Speaker 1>home for another reason to find detectives waiting for him.

0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it was under an unrelated matter, and he was

0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.520
<v Speaker 5>met by the investigator with so homosot to him. So

0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:12.560
<v Speaker 5>his reaction was quite emotionless, which is unusual, and he

0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.480
<v Speaker 5>was then placed in custody in charge. So whether he

0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.320
<v Speaker 5>had a sense of maybe the inevitable what's happened, maybe

0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.559
<v Speaker 5>that's something that we could infer, but he was quite emotionless.

0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.960
<v Speaker 1>On Thursday, you spoke to Danny Dougherty in an interview

0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.200
<v Speaker 1>after he'd spoken to the rest of the journos. What

0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:31.880
<v Speaker 1>did he have to say?

0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.640
<v Speaker 3>There are some limitations in terms of what he can

0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.040
<v Speaker 3>say because we're waiting for the suspect in this matter,

0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.640
<v Speaker 3>Eron Govinda, to actually go before a court and to

0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:42.640
<v Speaker 3>apply for bail and for a police statement of facts

0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.959
<v Speaker 3>to be tended. So there are some things can be

0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.720
<v Speaker 3>said that can be said at a high level, but

0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.360
<v Speaker 3>generally speaking, what was quite fascinating about my conversation with

0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Superintendent Doherty was just a little bit of the insight

0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.280
<v Speaker 3>into what police have actually been doing these past few years.

0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.600
<v Speaker 3>So I've obviously been following this case for a very

0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.560
<v Speaker 3>long time. I've noticed that it's kind of ticked along

0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.200
<v Speaker 3>in a very gradual, very slow fashion, and I've always

0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.000
<v Speaker 3>wondered what are the detectives actually doing? And what I

0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.400
<v Speaker 3>was able to glean from Superintendent Deity was that much

0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:17.520
<v Speaker 3>of this work is just so protracted and involves reinvestigating

0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.679
<v Speaker 3>every line of inquiry that existed at the time, and

0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:25.160
<v Speaker 3>reinterviewing witnesses and not just family and friends of Aaron

0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.679
<v Speaker 3>Govendor or Denise Gavinda, but also going back and interviewing

0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.880
<v Speaker 3>the old detectives who started this case and built the

0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.760
<v Speaker 3>foundations of this case back in the late nineties. But

0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.600
<v Speaker 3>I guess one of the more fascinating and unexpected aspects

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 3>of the investigation that I wasn't aware of was that

0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.760
<v Speaker 3>the detectives were in a way waging a slow burn,

0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.199
<v Speaker 3>simmering game of psychological warfare with their target. And I

0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.520
<v Speaker 3>guess we see this in films from time to time

0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 3>that you bring the suspect in, you grill them, you

0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 3>give them a break, you grill them again. That's kind

0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.040
<v Speaker 3>of what they were doing. They at a certain point

0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.840
<v Speaker 3>last year they turned up at Aaron go Vender's property.

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.320
<v Speaker 3>There've been very little publicity about this case. They raid

0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.480
<v Speaker 3>the property, toss it over, collect some items of interest,

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.160
<v Speaker 3>slap him with some very small scale charges, he's ordered

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.720
<v Speaker 3>to go off to court. I mean, this is all pressure.

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.720
<v Speaker 3>This is legal pressure that mounts on a person. Then

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 3>you pull them in, you subject them to questions, You

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 3>let them know that you're the target of an investigation.

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.440
<v Speaker 3>And slowly, slowly you're asking questions of this person to

0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.719
<v Speaker 3>ascertain are they still cleaving to the same story they

0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 3>told in nineteen ninety eight or are they changing their

0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.839
<v Speaker 3>version of events? And I think that was the insight

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 3>that Superintendent Delherity provided to me, that it wasn't necessarily

0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.480
<v Speaker 3>a smoking gun that blew open this case. It's a

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.280
<v Speaker 3>collection of small pieces of evidence that all cobble together

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 3>to form a circumstantial brief that will ultimately go before

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.400
<v Speaker 3>the court.

0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Coming up another cold case murder with an intriguing connection

0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.880
<v Speaker 1>to this story that's coming up next. Our subscribers are

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 1>always the first to know. Join us at the Australian

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au and we'll be back after this break.

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.040
<v Speaker 1>I told you earlier our podcast from twenty fifteen was

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 1>called the Alibi. So what did that mean? Well, Aaron

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Gavinda had been caught up in an earlier murder case,

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.000
<v Speaker 1>this time the wife of a close friend of his

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Eva Weebel, was found bashed to death inside her home

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 1>fifteen years before Denise's death. That was in nineteen eighty three.

0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Her husband, George Weebel, was charged with murder, and when

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>the matter came to trial, George brought to court an

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 1>alibi witness for his whereabouts at the time of Eva's murder.

0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.959
<v Speaker 1>His friend Aaron Gavinda, said he had called George at

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 1>a different premises at the exact time of the murder

0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 1>and spoken to him on the phone. George Weebel's lawyers

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.160
<v Speaker 1>argued this was crucial evidence that proved he was not guilty.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>George Weebel was acquitted, and he later spoke to Yourn

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 1>for our podcast.

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:23.800
<v Speaker 3>Look the case we'll never be sold because the coppers

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 3>arrested me, they had me on the rest for two

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 3>years or thereabouts, and after that bloody thing has gone

0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:36.360
<v Speaker 3>so called.

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 5>It's not even money and there's just no way that

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 5>they'll find anything.

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 1>In that conversation, Ynni asked George Weebel about the dreadful

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 1>luck that saw two close families struck by similar tragedies,

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 1>the fact his close friend his alibi, Aaron, subsequently lost

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 1>his wife in a violent murder in her own home.

0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Eva Weebel and Denise Gavinda were friends, just as Aaron

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Gavinda and George Weeble were enough.

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 3>Look, I don't gamble, I don't gamble, and I don't

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 3>have to find dogs. It's happened. I don't know why

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 3>it's happened. I don't know why the first lunch happened.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 5>I don't know why the second I don't know, and

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 5>I just want to get on with.

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 3>My life as simple as that.

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 4>Look, I honestly can't see it how I can be interesting.

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 1>This bloody case. Johnny Bishan is a journalist with The Australian.

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us on the front. Our team is

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:51.120
<v Speaker 1>Stephanie Coombs, Joshua Burton, Leat, Sammaglue, Tiffany Demack, Jasper Leik,

0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Kristen Amiot and me Claire Harvey. Don't forget to check

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>out all our journalism twenty four to seven at The

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot au