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Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

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Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

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Speaker 1: the news from the Australian. From the Australian, Here's what's

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Speaker 1: on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Friday, August sixteenth.

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Speaker 1: A shortage of intravenous fluids, including saline, has been causing

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Speaker 1: chaos in Australian hospitals, with patients at risk from dehydration

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Speaker 1: and other complications. Regulators claim it's a global shortage, but

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Speaker 1: sources say Australia has failed to procure vital supplies. That's

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Speaker 1: an exclusive live now at the Australian dot Com. A

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Speaker 1: labor scheme to get more aged care workers into Australia

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Speaker 1: is off to a slow start. Fewer than five hundred

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Speaker 1: visas have been granted in the program's first year, and

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Speaker 1: of those, only eighty four were given to offshore applicants.

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Speaker 1: The aged care sector is still facing critical staff shortages.

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Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, our podcast The Alibi investigated the unsolved

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Speaker 1: murder of Denise Givindir, a Sydney mother brutally beaten to

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Speaker 1: death in her own home. Her husband, Aaron Gavinda, told

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Speaker 1: police a home invader had knocked him unconscious and bound

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Speaker 1: him with cable ties before killing Denise. Now Aaron has

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Speaker 1: been charged with murder today, Why this twenty six year

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Speaker 1: old cold case is back before the courts?

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Speaker 2: Aaron, Yes, Hello, my name's Yanni Bashan. I'm a reporter

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Speaker 2: with the Sunday Telegraph. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm well fine. Were you expecting me, Bonny Chance?

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Speaker 1: No, that's our reporter Joannie Bashan in twenty fifteen, attempting

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Speaker 1: to talk to a man named Aaron Gavinda. He was

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Speaker 1: a widower and his wife, Denise, the mother of their children,

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Speaker 1: had been brutally beaten to death in her own home

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Speaker 1: many years earlier.

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Speaker 2: I'm writing a story about your wife, Denise. Come on,

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Speaker 2: come on, I'm writing a story about Denise's murder. I'd

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Speaker 2: like to ask you a couple of questions if you're available,

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Speaker 2: Just a couple of questions.

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Speaker 1: It's been nine years since Yanni knocked on that door,

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Speaker 1: and now this there's been a cold case breakthrough today,

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Speaker 1: some twenty six years in the making. An eighty one

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Speaker 1: year old man arrested over the alleged murder of his wife,

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Speaker 1: Denise Gavinda. This morning. Aaron Gavinda will face a court

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Speaker 1: charged with Denise's murder more than twenty six years after

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Speaker 1: her death. He's not been required to enter a plea

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Speaker 1: and will likely defend the charge. Evidence has yet been

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Speaker 1: brought before a court, but on Thursday afternoon, Jonnie broke

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Speaker 1: the story on the Australian dot com dot that Aaron

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Speaker 1: Gavinda had been charged. The audio you just heard was

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Speaker 1: first aired in a podcast Joannie and I produced in

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. Back then, we were both working at the

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Speaker 1: Sunday Telegraph, just one floor upstairs from where we both

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Speaker 1: worked today at The Australian. The podcast is called The Alibi.

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Speaker 1: It was in the early days of true crime podcasting,

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Speaker 1: and although Jonnie and I were experienced newspaper journalists, we

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Speaker 1: were excited about this new way we could bring our

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Speaker 1: stories to new audiences. This was one of Australia's first

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Speaker 1: investigative podcasts, Yanni. When we made The Alibi, we didn't

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Speaker 1: really know that much about how to make podcasts. We

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Speaker 1: even hit up one of your friends, Josh Conn, a

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Speaker 1: talented musician, to compose the theme music for us. That's

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Speaker 1: what we're playing now. We kind of did what we

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Speaker 1: would do if we were doing this for the newspaper

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Speaker 1: but turned it into audio. We recorded everything we did.

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Speaker 1: It was a real learning curve, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah? It was a very unusual time. It was twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 3: There was a very popular podcast overseas called Cereal, which

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Speaker 3: I hadn't heard yet. I remember coming to you and saying, look,

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Speaker 3: I've got this interesting idea to investigate a cold case

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Speaker 3: murder and doing it in some meticulous detail, and I

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Speaker 3: remember your response was like, why don't we do it

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Speaker 3: as a podcast? I think I might have even said,

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Speaker 3: what's a podcast? But it was a really enjoyable learning experience.

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Speaker 3: It was an unusual way to explore the details of

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Speaker 3: an unsolved crime, and it was also a highly effective

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Speaker 3: way of doing it because we know that the police

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Speaker 3: listened to it. We know that they followed our coverage

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Speaker 3: in the years afterwards, and we know that ultimately it

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Speaker 3: led to an independent investigation of this particular murder, and

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Speaker 3: that led to where we are.

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Speaker 4: Benny Gavinda devoted her life to helping batted women. Last night,

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Speaker 4: Missus Gavinda became the victim of violence, bashed to death

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Speaker 4: during an apparent home invasion at Dover Heights.

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Speaker 1: By twenty fifteen, when we released The Alibi, Denise's murder

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Speaker 1: was a seventeen year old cold case. She'd been murdered

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight in her own bedroom. Aaron Gavinda

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Speaker 1: told police in an interview recorded about two months later

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Speaker 1: of a terrifying encounter in that home in Dover Heights,

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Speaker 1: a suburb overlooking the cliffs just north of Bondai Beach.

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Speaker 1: Here's a bit of our podcast, The Alibi. We included

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Speaker 1: some of Aaron's police interview, and then you'll hear Yoannie's

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Speaker 1: voice from episode one.

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Speaker 2: And obouly blood. I came here and read Caplogium had

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Speaker 2: asked for an ambulance, said police.

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Speaker 4: I filled her out. I didn't know where to feel

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Speaker 4: a pulse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was all flop o. Now Aaron wouldn't talk

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Speaker 2: to me, but that was him speaking to police about

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Speaker 2: two months after Denise's murder. So, Aaron has been the

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Speaker 2: victim of a terrible crime. His wife has been murdered,

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Speaker 2: and even worse, he's living with the fact that police

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Speaker 2: at some point have investigated the theory that he was

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Speaker 2: the killer. Though he's never been charged. His story has

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Speaker 2: always been the same he and his wife were victims

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Speaker 2: of a home invasion. But there's no getting away from

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Speaker 2: the fact that Aaron's account doesn't answer some pretty big questions.

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Speaker 3: Like how the house at first.

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Speaker 2: Looked like the scene of a robbery yet nothing of

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Speaker 2: value was taken, or why the killer stole the family

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Speaker 2: car and then dumped it down the road. And here's

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Speaker 2: another one. The cable ties used to bind both Denise

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Speaker 2: and Aaron were identical to those sold under the brand

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Speaker 2: name Landier, which could only be purchased from one hardware

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Speaker 2: chain in the country, and the nearest one was located

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Speaker 2: just down the road from the Gavinda family home. But

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Speaker 2: above all, there's this why would anyone want to kill

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Speaker 2: Denise Gavenda?

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Speaker 5: Afternoon everyone, Detective Superintendent Danny Doherty, Commander Homicide Squad, State

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Speaker 5: Crime Command.

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Speaker 1: This is the new South Wales Police's Homicide Squad, Commander

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Speaker 1: Danny Doherty.

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Speaker 5: About ten to fifteen am today, Strifle's detectives the rest

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Speaker 5: of eighty one year old man at Springwood Police Station,

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Speaker 5: where has been now charged with one count of murder.

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Speaker 1: After we broke the story on the Astralian, Danny Doherty

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Speaker 1: revealed more details about how Aaron Gavinda was arrested.

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Speaker 5: This is a hard slog of investigation. This is twenty

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Speaker 5: six years in the making, including the original investigation and

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Speaker 5: looking at the evidence with fresh eyes, but building on

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Speaker 5: the evidence that had already been obtained, and reinterviewing certain witnesses,

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Speaker 5: gaining information from members of the public, reinterviewing other people,

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Speaker 5: gaining new medical evidence is important, and also gaining new

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Speaker 5: forensic evidence. So in totality it's formed a very convincing

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Speaker 5: and compelling, circumstantial brief of evidence and which we will

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Speaker 5: put to the court that this person who was arrested

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Speaker 5: in charge today was the sole person responsible for Denise's murder.

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Speaker 1: What police will allege when this matter gets to trial

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Speaker 1: is that Aaron Gavinda staged the break in, murdered Denise himself,

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Speaker 1: cable tied her, and then made up a story that

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Speaker 1: someone had broken in, claiming to be a police officer,

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Speaker 1: and knocked Aaron unconscious.

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Speaker 5: Will allege who was a stage robbery just to cover

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Speaker 5: the tracks allegedly of what's been committed, which was a

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Speaker 5: murder in essence, a domestic violence murder. And that's important

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Speaker 5: that it was never lost on us that this is

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Speaker 5: a woman that lost her life finally in our own home.

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Speaker 5: That's been something that's driven and motivated the investigators from

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Speaker 5: day one since nineteen ninety eight. What we're in the

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Speaker 5: facts in relation of this matter, and I got to

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Speaker 5: be careful because it is before the court, but what

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Speaker 5: we're legend the facts was that there was no break in,

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Speaker 5: There was no bogus police officer. The circumstances, which we'll outline,

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Speaker 5: was that this man was responsible for violently assaulting to

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Speaker 5: Nice and then stage a robbery in terms of putting

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Speaker 5: things out in the place that make it look like

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Speaker 5: a robbery, when in fact nothing was actually stolen, No

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Speaker 5: value biles were ever stolen. There were circumstances that were

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Speaker 5: inconsistent with virgins provided and even the car going missing

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Speaker 5: had only been found a short distance away, was quite unusual.

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Speaker 5: And all these circumstances and on top of other things

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Speaker 5: were legend in the facts we believe make it compelling

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Speaker 5: that this person should be charged with her murder.

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Speaker 1: Doughty revealed Aaron Givinde attended Springwood Police Station near his

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Speaker 1: home for another reason to find detectives waiting for him.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was under an unrelated matter, and he was

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Speaker 5: met by the investigator with so homosot to him. So

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Speaker 5: his reaction was quite emotionless, which is unusual, and he

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Speaker 5: was then placed in custody in charge. So whether he

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Speaker 5: had a sense of maybe the inevitable what's happened, maybe

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Speaker 5: that's something that we could infer, but he was quite emotionless.

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Speaker 1: On Thursday, you spoke to Danny Dougherty in an interview

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Speaker 1: after he'd spoken to the rest of the journos. What

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Speaker 1: did he have to say?

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Speaker 3: There are some limitations in terms of what he can

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Speaker 3: say because we're waiting for the suspect in this matter,

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Speaker 3: Eron Govinda, to actually go before a court and to

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Speaker 3: apply for bail and for a police statement of facts

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Speaker 3: to be tended. So there are some things can be

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Speaker 3: said that can be said at a high level, but

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, what was quite fascinating about my conversation with

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Speaker 3: Superintendent Doherty was just a little bit of the insight

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Speaker 3: into what police have actually been doing these past few years.

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Speaker 3: So I've obviously been following this case for a very

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Speaker 3: long time. I've noticed that it's kind of ticked along

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Speaker 3: in a very gradual, very slow fashion, and I've always

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Speaker 3: wondered what are the detectives actually doing? And what I

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Speaker 3: was able to glean from Superintendent Deity was that much

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Speaker 3: of this work is just so protracted and involves reinvestigating

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Speaker 3: every line of inquiry that existed at the time, and

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Speaker 3: reinterviewing witnesses and not just family and friends of Aaron

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Speaker 3: Govendor or Denise Gavinda, but also going back and interviewing

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Speaker 3: the old detectives who started this case and built the

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Speaker 3: foundations of this case back in the late nineties. But

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Speaker 3: I guess one of the more fascinating and unexpected aspects

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Speaker 3: of the investigation that I wasn't aware of was that

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Speaker 3: the detectives were in a way waging a slow burn,

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Speaker 3: simmering game of psychological warfare with their target. And I

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Speaker 3: guess we see this in films from time to time

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Speaker 3: that you bring the suspect in, you grill them, you

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Speaker 3: give them a break, you grill them again. That's kind

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Speaker 3: of what they were doing. They at a certain point

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Speaker 3: last year they turned up at Aaron go Vender's property.

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Speaker 3: There've been very little publicity about this case. They raid

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Speaker 3: the property, toss it over, collect some items of interest,

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Speaker 3: slap him with some very small scale charges, he's ordered

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Speaker 3: to go off to court. I mean, this is all pressure.

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Speaker 3: This is legal pressure that mounts on a person. Then

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Speaker 3: you pull them in, you subject them to questions, You

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Speaker 3: let them know that you're the target of an investigation.

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Speaker 3: And slowly, slowly you're asking questions of this person to

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Speaker 3: ascertain are they still cleaving to the same story they

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Speaker 3: told in nineteen ninety eight or are they changing their

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Speaker 3: version of events? And I think that was the insight

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Speaker 3: that Superintendent Delherity provided to me, that it wasn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: a smoking gun that blew open this case. It's a

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Speaker 3: collection of small pieces of evidence that all cobble together

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Speaker 3: to form a circumstantial brief that will ultimately go before

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Speaker 3: the court.

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Speaker 1: Coming up another cold case murder with an intriguing connection

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Speaker 1: to this story that's coming up next. Our subscribers are

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Speaker 1: always the first to know. Join us at the Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au and we'll be back after this break.

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Speaker 1: I told you earlier our podcast from twenty fifteen was

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Speaker 1: called the Alibi. So what did that mean? Well, Aaron

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Speaker 1: Gavinda had been caught up in an earlier murder case,

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Speaker 1: this time the wife of a close friend of his

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Speaker 1: Eva Weebel, was found bashed to death inside her home

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Speaker 1: fifteen years before Denise's death. That was in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 1: Her husband, George Weebel, was charged with murder, and when

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Speaker 1: the matter came to trial, George brought to court an

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Speaker 1: alibi witness for his whereabouts at the time of Eva's murder.

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Speaker 1: His friend Aaron Gavinda, said he had called George at

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Speaker 1: a different premises at the exact time of the murder

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Speaker 1: and spoken to him on the phone. George Weebel's lawyers

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Speaker 1: argued this was crucial evidence that proved he was not guilty.

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Speaker 1: George Weebel was acquitted, and he later spoke to Yourn

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Speaker 1: for our podcast.

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Speaker 3: Look the case we'll never be sold because the coppers

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Speaker 3: arrested me, they had me on the rest for two

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Speaker 3: years or thereabouts, and after that bloody thing has gone

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Speaker 3: so called.

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Speaker 5: It's not even money and there's just no way that

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Speaker 5: they'll find anything.

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Speaker 1: In that conversation, Ynni asked George Weebel about the dreadful

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Speaker 1: luck that saw two close families struck by similar tragedies,

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Speaker 1: the fact his close friend his alibi, Aaron, subsequently lost

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Speaker 1: his wife in a violent murder in her own home.

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Speaker 1: Eva Weebel and Denise Gavinda were friends, just as Aaron

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Speaker 1: Gavinda and George Weeble were enough.

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Speaker 3: Look, I don't gamble, I don't gamble, and I don't

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Speaker 3: have to find dogs. It's happened. I don't know why

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Speaker 3: it's happened. I don't know why the first lunch happened.

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Speaker 5: I don't know why the second I don't know, and

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Speaker 5: I just want to get on with.

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Speaker 3: My life as simple as that.

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Speaker 4: Look, I honestly can't see it how I can be interesting.

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Speaker 1: This bloody case. Johnny Bishan is a journalist with The Australian.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the front. Our team is

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Coombs, Joshua Burton, Leat, Sammaglue, Tiffany Demack, Jasper Leik,

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Speaker 1: Kristen Amiot and me Claire Harvey. Don't forget to check

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Speaker 1: out all our journalism twenty four to seven at The

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Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au